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(Daily Mail)   Transgender high school student wins right to wear dress to prom. No word on whether it will be an original Wang   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 161
    More: Interesting, proms, United States Code, high schools  
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6783 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2013 at 12:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-06 02:15:59 PM

Hollie Maea: TheZorker: /Gender is Physical, not Psychological
//I'm not sure if I'm Trolling

You're not trolling, just ignorant.  People a hell of a lot smarter than you are have confirmed that there is a psychological component to gender.


Yes, and they almost all agree that gender confused individuals are mentally ILL.
 
2013-04-06 02:17:35 PM

Quinsisdos: As someone going to a therapist next week for gender identity issues, I'm getting a kick out of this...

/This thread seems to have gone about as well as most TG threads on Fark


No matter what decisions you make in your life, and no matter who you are, I love you, recognize your specialness and importance in life, and will always make room for you in my heart.  =)
 
2013-04-06 02:19:23 PM

Kahabut: Hollie Maea: TheZorker: /Gender is Physical, not Psychological
//I'm not sure if I'm Trolling

You're not trolling, just ignorant.  People a hell of a lot smarter than you are have confirmed that there is a psychological component to gender.

Yes, and they almost all agree that gender confused individuals are mentally ILL.


I almost never say this, but HOLY shiat CITATION MOTHERfarkING NEEDED.
 
2013-04-06 02:20:29 PM

Hollie Maea: TheZorker:

/Gender is Physical, not Psychological
//I'm not sure if I'm Trolling

You're not trolling, just ignorant.  People a hell of a lot smarter than you are have confirmed that there is a psychological component to gender.


You're both off.

Gender is psychological and social, how you "feel" and how people treat you (or how you want them too). In this case the applicable terms are masculine and feminine: just this year this dude decided he was feminine That's fine with me, the more femme boys the better.

What you both are probably thinking of is SEX, not gender: usually a person is either clearly male (like this dude) or clearly female, though some people because of hormonal problems in utero have genitalia that are not so easy to describe as male or female.

Gender and sex are two different things.

Society usually expects people with male genitalia to be gendered as masculine and those with female genitalia to be feminine but this ain't necessarily the case. I myself have bween back & forth between butch & femme a few times, but I have always been indispitably male: if my cock & balls don't persuade you you're welcome to inspect my chromosomes. And yes, "crossdressing" and calling yourself any damn name you please is a basic human right.

Some people don't feel the need to be "differently gendered" and that's fine too: boys shouldn't be forced to wear pink if they don't to either. The point is freedom, not choosing or feeling one way or the other.

OTOH "transsexualism" is an social-political-medical identity that people who feel they are "nonstandardly gendered" are hoodwinked into. This saves Society from having to admit there there are more than two genders and that their "sex-role" expectations are bullshiat, instead imposing on the individual the "need" to "fix" himself. Society can say "See? If you play with dolls and like pink you're not really male and should have your boy bits cut off!" And "helping professionals," especially greedy surgeons, are more than happy to play along.


And by the way, sex and/or gender are not necessarily correlated with sexual preference either: e.g., you can be a drag queen and not desire men at all. I myself used to love to "gender-bend," to shave my legs & wear makeup while I made out with chicks. (Some chicks dig that, y'know.)

They try a similar scam on "tomboys," though women -- perhaps because Society still thinks they matter less than men -- are allowed to wear pants and hammer nails without necessarily having to "discover" they're Lesbian let alone "transmen." It might also be that women in American culture are stronger, smarter and less gullible than men, that they're simply harder to hoodwink into having themselves mutilated to reinforce Society's "sex-role" expectations; perhaps also femininism has helped women be strong in a way that men are not.

Maybe we men need our own liberation movement -- let's call it masculinism for now -- so we can tell Society to back off, that Society is just going to have to get used to men who wear dresses etc. The key to this is a proper attitude: "You have no right to force me to fit your expectations, and I'll give up my cock & balls when you chop them off my cold dead body."
 Society is still scared half to death of feminine men. Perhaps men with compassion and guts should "cross-dress" occasionally, especially for protests, regardless of how we "feel inside" or who we desire sexually, to show support for our femme brothers in their ongoing struggle to be accepted as they are in the bodies they were born with.


"Stand up for human rights: lift your skirt and show your balls!"

Make Society stop castrating men because they're not "normal."
 
2013-04-06 02:29:25 PM
Bushmen don't have any more interest in female breasts than they do in elbows. The Western fascination with breasts is not instinctive. Certain deviants find stinky feet to be objects of desire. There is very little 'hard-wiring' involved in sexual attraction. You grope and fondle and kiss with whatever you've been taught to be appropriate.

In Imperial China, foot-binding was used to produce the 'lotus foot'. In bowdlerised accounts, Westerners are told that it caused a woman to be housebound and dependent upon her husband. Actually, the 'lotus foot' was used for both manual (pedal?) masturbation of the man, and also as a plug to stimulate a man's anus when the woman wrapped her legs around him during sexual intercourse.
 
2013-04-06 02:37:56 PM

Quinsisdos: As someone going to a therapist next week for gender identity issues, I'm getting a kick out of this...

/This thread seems to have gone about as well as most TG threads on Fark


Good luck. If you need to vent, you can toss me an e-mail.
 
2013-04-06 02:51:21 PM

Kahabut: Hollie Maea: TheZorker: /Gender is Physical, not Psychological
//I'm not sure if I'm Trolling

You're not trolling, just ignorant.  People a hell of a lot smarter than you are have confirmed that there is a psychological component to gender.

Yes, and they almost all agree that gender confused individuals are mentally ILL.


Are you referring to these smart people? cuz actually, no. Gender dysphoria is actually not considered a mental illness by psychiatrists. Fun fact, neither is homosexuality. Are we all up to date now?
 
2013-04-06 02:51:41 PM

Peki: willfullyobscure: Peki: Oh. Forgot the "A" for the asexuals out there.

So, serious question: do you go to Michfest? You're WbW no matter what you identify as, so you can legit get in, as opposed to WbOthers.

I have no idea what Michfest is. If it's in Michigan, I'm in Los uAngeles, so definitely not.

/Nice on the WbW, took me a minute. Usually I get called a GG (genuine girl).


its a big festival that only.let's in womenborn as women(of any status) and bars born -male trans people. inspires a lot of butt hurt fr
om the trans to the point that they do awful stuff during the festival.

anyway, would  you want/enjoy an event like that given your identity? curious.
 
2013-04-06 02:52:17 PM

The One True TheDavid: Hollie Maea: TheZorker:

/Gender is Physical, not Psychological
//I'm not sure if I'm Trolling

You're not trolling, just ignorant.  People a hell of a lot smarter than you are have confirmed that there is a psychological component to gender.

You're both off.

Gender is psychological and social, how you "feel" and how people treat you (or how you want them too). In this case the applicable terms are masculine and feminine: just this year this dude decided he was feminine That's fine with me, the more femme boys the better.

What you both are probably thinking of is SEX, not gender: usually a person is either clearly male (like this dude) or clearly female, though some people because of hormonal problems in utero have genitalia that are not so easy to describe as male or female.

Gender and sex are two different things.

Society usually expects people with male genitalia to be gendered as masculine and those with female genitalia to be feminine but this ain't necessarily the case. I myself have bween back & forth between butch & femme a few times, but I have always been indispitably male: if my cock & balls don't persuade you you're welcome to inspect my chromosomes. And yes, "crossdressing" and calling yourself any damn name you please is a basic human right.

Some people don't feel the need to be "differently gendered" and that's fine too: boys shouldn't be forced to wear pink if they don't to either. The point is freedom, not choosing or feeling one way or the other.

OTOH "transsexualism" is an social-political-medical identity that people who feel they are "nonstandardly gendered" are hoodwinked into. This saves Society from having to admit there there are more than two genders and that their "sex-role" expectations are bullshiat, instead imposing on the individual the "need" to "fix" himself. Society can say "See? If you play with dolls and like pink you're not really male and should have your boy bits cut off!" And "helping professionals," especially greedy ...


This is possibly the most elegant argument against Body modification in the transexual community I have read recently. Color me surprised to find this on a fark thread.

/You're all a bag of genes to me.
 
2013-04-06 02:56:55 PM
This thead needs more hawt kathoey pics.
 
2013-04-06 03:08:30 PM

willfullyobscure: Peki: willfullyobscure: Peki: Oh. Forgot the "A" for the asexuals out there.

So, serious question: do you go to Michfest? You're WbW no matter what you identify as, so you can legit get in, as opposed to WbOthers.

I have no idea what Michfest is. If it's in Michigan, I'm in Los uAngeles, so definitely not.

/Nice on the WbW, took me a minute. Usually I get called a GG (genuine girl).

its a big festival that only.let's in womenborn as women(of any status) and bars born -male trans people. inspires a lot of butt hurt fr
om the trans to the point that they do awful stuff during the festival.

anyway, would  you want/enjoy an event like that given your identity? curious.


I. . . omg. . . that's like. . . I'm gonna have nightmares now, you realize this.

I don't get along with "real" women in real life, at all. Straight women tend to see me as a sexual threat, as I have a hyperactive sex-drive that men smell a mile away, a very feminine body (think Julie Newmar with Audrey Hepburn's face) and an easy going sense of humor that also makes me easy for guys to talk to; mix it up, instant female rage. A side effect of having a shaved head is that women see me as less of a threat. Everyone actually treats me better assuming I'm a lesbian, but that leads to different issues once they realize that my fiancé is male, and that we are very much attracted to each other and in love (we're very affectionate--not throw-up territory, but we do push it sometimes). I much prefer the company of males, doesn't matter their gender or trans status, or sexual orientation--though I do tend to have similar issues with the feminine gay males that I do with straight women. I don't even like lesbians, and most of them my age are bitter and resentful, and just as gossipy and superficial and catty as straight women. I couldn't imagine a festival full of any of 'em. Of the female sex, I seem to get along the smoothest with other bi or more masculine women, but they are few and far between.

On the other hand, the eye candy might be nice. . . and I've had a very long dry spell when it comes to deh wimmins. . .
 
2013-04-06 03:31:35 PM
www.inquisitr.com
 
2013-04-06 03:41:43 PM

Koodz: Can't find the image, so here it is, for trolling purposes:


Today I went to McDonalds with my genderqueer non-binary friend. I had a Big Mac, strawberry milkshake and fries and xi had a salad and a water because xi is watching xir weight. We were sitting eating and shooting the shiat and we overheard a little kid talking to his/her brother/sister (sorry I don't know these kids' gender identities - their mom called them boys but you can never be too sure, and considering the cissexist bullshiat that was about to come out of this woman's mouth, i wouldn't be surprised if they were girls)
Kid B (the younger one) says to Kid A, "you're a lesbian!" and quick as a flash, their mother says, "Boys can't be lesbians, eat your hamburger."
I MEAN WHAT THE fark?! This is so problematic! I almost jumped over the table and punched that biatch in the ear. I mean SO MANY THINGS WRONG with what she said to the poor kid. Boys CAN be lesbians if they identify as lesbians. I have a number of cis male lesbian friends. She was erasing their entire lived experiences with such a small statement. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The kid was like five years old. How does she know that the kid wouldn't grow up to identify as a lesbian! Scumbags like this are why I firmly believe cis scum biatches should keep their legs closed and quit breeding. fark the cis hetero patriarchy!


Oh man... is that Forfuturereferenceonly's trolling? I know it's tumblr social justice bloggese, but I was just wondering if it was Ffro.
 
2013-04-06 04:02:05 PM

willfullyobscure: Peki: willfullyobscure: Peki: Oh. Forgot the "A" for the asexuals out there.

So, serious question: do you go to Michfest? You're WbW no matter what you identify as, so you can legit get in, as opposed to WbOthers.

I have no idea what Michfest is. If it's in Michigan, I'm in Los uAngeles, so definitely not.

/Nice on the WbW, took me a minute. Usually I get called a GG (genuine girl).

its a big festival that only.let's in womenborn as women(of any status) and bars born -male trans people. inspires a lot of butt hurt fr
om the trans to the point that they do awful stuff during the festival.

anyway, would  you want/enjoy an event like that given your identity? curious.


Yup, that one would bother me. I suppose I would qualify as WbW but strongly identify on the M side of things (and life my life that way as well, in M roles).  As much as Michfest would be a lovely thing, and I have a lot of friends who have been or are planning on returning, that restriction seems to me to an anacronistic throwback to separatist lesbian feminist attitudes. I don't have any problem with them, but to a certain extent, they have a bit of a problem - with me... I can't be a separatist, I do have a wife though. But, when you take into account the gender slide, does that make me a lesbian or not? :) Definitions become rather useless then, now don't they.

Now, as for the fine article - wear what you want, but keep your bits covered. Otherwise, who cares.
 
2013-04-06 04:15:30 PM

Capo Del Bandito: God damn he's ugly in a dress.

Should wait till he gets hormone treatment or something first, just in the name of good taste.


Plus he's a fatty.
 
2013-04-06 04:22:56 PM

Kahabut: Hollie Maea: TheZorker: /Gender is Physical, not Psychological
//I'm not sure if I'm Trolling

You're not trolling, just ignorant.  People a hell of a lot smarter than you are have confirmed that there is a psychological component to gender.

Yes, and they almost all agree that gender confused individuals are mentally ILL.


When the liver doesn't function properly people go meh.

When the heart doesn't function properly people go meh.

But when the brain doesn't function properly people freak out.
 
2013-04-06 04:30:19 PM

Quinsisdos: As someone going to a therapist next week for gender identity issues, I'm getting a kick out of this...

/This thread seems to have gone about as well as most TG threads on Fark


Here, let me save you an hour. Do you have a d*ck? Then the personal pronoun you use to refer to your gender is "He" or "Him". If you have a vagina it changes to "She" or "Her". Easy peasy.

/am I making a joke
//am I serious
///is this Fark?
//does it matter?
/slashies
 
2013-04-06 04:32:19 PM
I'm very much pro-TG rights, and think the school has now made the right decision.

I also think this kid's being a bit selfish using the class prom as her personal coming out party. I'd personally feel better if she made her transition a couple of weeks earlier, to give the other students some time to get used to the change in a setting without the alcohol and stress of prom.

But that's just my personal preference. I hope I'm wrong about her choice adding unneeded stress, and everyone involved has a great night.
 
2013-04-06 04:33:51 PM
A 19 year old high school student? That was my first thought. Then I realized I went to school with a dang 22 year old. It isn't unheard of nowadays for people to fail a grade. It should never been an issue if he wanted to wear a dress. Whatever makes him happy, but dude does NOT look like a lady. He seems more like a simple crossdresser to me. J Edgar Hoover wasn't transgndered. He just likedlooking pretty.
 
2013-04-06 04:33:51 PM

JPINFV: omeganuepsilon: Gender and sex are much the same thing to science. A gender role, not so much, that's more of a social thing, and as such it is a psychological issue.

Actually it's not... and there's actually three different levels of sex in and of itself (genetic, gonadal, phenotypic), and there are biochemical and genetic diseases that illustrate when congruency of those three breaks down. Gender is more mental than structural, but even mental disorders have been shown to show structural changes from "normal" brains.


Actually, you may want to take it in context, and you know, maybe look up the words in question when telling people that they're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
Gender is a range of physical, mental, and behavioral characteristics distinguishing between masculinity and femininity.[1][2][3] Depending on the context, the term may refer to sex (i.e. the state of being male or female), social roles (as in gender roles), or gender identity.

In context of my post, if we were to do away with the bigoted social structure(as is typical in non-biased science), that leaves only physical characteristics.

People behave and think like people.  No need to deploy masculine and feminine to how people act or think.

Peki: I feel I have the wrong body, but no, it's not wrong enough to make me want to do something about it.


Lucky you, but realize you're not the only person on the planet.  A great many get suicidal or worse, take matters into their own hands, literally, and butcher their nether regions in an attempt to correct the disparity between body and mind(granted that's more rare, but desperate people do desperate things).  That's not all social pressure and how "mean" other people are, contrary to what some people claim.

Also, my "what if" is not necessarily eugenics. More along the lines of vaccinations used to prevent diseases, or prescription drugs to help people cope, or balance hormones, separation of twin remnants, wearing a brace on a malformed limb, etc.
 
2013-04-06 04:45:15 PM

Capo Del Bandito: sudo give me more cowbell: Capo Del Bandito: Would you trust a person's self diagnosis of an ailment?

Would you trust someone's self-diagnosis of their sexual orientation?

Maybe, but only taken with a grain of salt. I doubt the person to put it in to proper wording, or with any proper assessment.

Anecdotal bullshiat is hardly the way to go.


WTF? So you have a doctor's note letting you know you're straight*? And you wouldn't be sure if you didn't have the note?

Please tell us all about the "proper assessment" your doctor did. Did it involve a hot nurse? I like hot nurses. Was it covered by your insurance? I can't find "assessment of sexual orientation" listed anywhere in my coverage.
----
*assumption on my part. Apologies if incorrect, but it doesn't affect my point.
 
2013-04-06 04:46:54 PM

omeganuepsilon: Gender is a range of physical, mental, and behavioral characteristics distinguishing between masculinity and femininity.[1][2][3] Depending on the context, the term may refer to sex (i.e. the state of being male or female), social roles (as in gender roles), or gender identity.

In context of my post, if we were to do away with the bigoted social structure(as is typical in non-biased science), that leaves only physical characteristics.

People behave and think like people. No need to deploy masculine and feminine to how people act or think.


Except gender is not just nurture but also nature. Otherwise David Reimer would still be alive.

...and in the field of applied science known as "medicine," gender is not the same as sex, as evidence as things like testicular feminization or xx male syndrome.
 
2013-04-06 05:11:22 PM
I live near this high school (it's in a very conservative, northern suburb of Houston). I was expecting all kinds of public outrage over this kid being allowed to wear a dress. However, I've been pleasantly surprised that the majority of local public opinion has been in support of the student. Sure, there's a few snarky & a few hateful comments but nowhere near what I expected. And those commenters have been shouted down by the majority in local news threads.
 
2013-04-06 05:13:17 PM

Wollffeey: Koodz: Can't find the image, so here it is, for trolling purposes:


Today I went to McDonalds with my genderqueer non-binary friend. I had a Big Mac, strawberry milkshake and fries and xi had a salad and a water because xi is watching xir weight. We were sitting eating and shooting the shiat and we overheard a little kid talking to his/her brother/sister (sorry I don't know these kids' gender identities - their mom called them boys but you can never be too sure, and considering the cissexist bullshiat that was about to come out of this woman's mouth, i wouldn't be surprised if they were girls)
Kid B (the younger one) says to Kid A, "you're a lesbian!" and quick as a flash, their mother says, "Boys can't be lesbians, eat your hamburger."
I MEAN WHAT THE fark?! This is so problematic! I almost jumped over the table and punched that biatch in the ear. I mean SO MANY THINGS WRONG with what she said to the poor kid. Boys CAN be lesbians if they identify as lesbians. I have a number of cis male lesbian friends. She was erasing their entire lived experiences with such a small statement. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The kid was like five years old. How does she know that the kid wouldn't grow up to identify as a lesbian! Scumbags like this are why I firmly believe cis scum biatches should keep their legs closed and quit breeding. fark the cis hetero patriarchy!

Oh man... is that Forfuturereferenceonly's trolling? I know it's tumblr social justice bloggese, but I was just wondering if it was Ffro.


It was from a tumblr called TWCisSexism. Tagged with "trigger warning" and "die cis scum." The original post has been deleted.
 
2013-04-06 05:21:53 PM

Mr Rogers is aroused: Koodz: Can't find the image, so here it is, for trolling purposes:


Today I went to McDonalds with my genderqueer non-binary friend. I had a Big Mac, strawberry milkshake and fries and xi had a salad and a water because xi is watching xir weight. We were sitting eating and shooting the shiat and we overheard a little kid talking to his/her brother/sister (sorry I don't know these kids' gender identities - their mom called them boys but you can never be too sure, and considering the cissexist bullshiat that was about to come out of this woman's mouth, i wouldn't be surprised if they were girls)
Kid B (the younger one) says to Kid A, "you're a lesbian!" and quick as a flash, their mother says, "Boys can't be lesbians, eat your hamburger."
I MEAN WHAT THE fark?! This is so problematic! I almost jumped over the table and punched that biatch in the ear. I mean SO MANY THINGS WRONG with what she said to the poor kid. Boys CAN be lesbians if they identify as lesbians. I have a number of cis male lesbian friends. She was erasing their entire lived experiences with such a small statement. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The kid was like five years old. How does she know that the kid wouldn't grow up to identify as a lesbian! Scumbags like this are why I firmly believe cis scum biatches should keep their legs closed and quit breeding. fark the cis hetero patriarchy!

I hope you are trolling.  Men have penises.  Women have vaginas.  You can play house and make up funny new words to make your friends feel all grown up and accepted if you want.. but it's weird.  It's not genetically sound, and its an abomination.

If we start accepting applications to change reality from what it has been, where do we stop?  Is pedophilia just a way of life that isn't accepted yet?  Is farking animals okay, and we are just behind the curve on that?  What about trees?  They have some very attractive knots in them.. I bet my junk would fit.

Man + Woman = baby.  All the other shiat is just us genetically, historically normal folk feeling guilty and letting you weirdos play along.  If you don't know what gender you are, and aren't interested in SACRIFICING to create a family, like the 50 generations before you, than you don't belong on this planet.  Lucky for you, your 50+ grandfathers, gay or not, knew they had to penetrate some vagina so you could have the privilege of opting out of life.  grow up.  man up.


The part where I said the following would be for trolling purposes was a clue.

I'm amazed that you really think these people don't engage in procreative sex and have children though. You'd be amazed how many trans women have jammed their cocks in a lot more vaginas than you have.
 
2013-04-06 05:34:19 PM
As a straight male, what does wanting to sex up an attractive trans woman make me?

Not that I'm looking for it, but I just love sexy ladies... real ones, fake ones, trans ones...

/straight
//said that twice
 
2013-04-06 05:48:24 PM
google +1 !
 
2013-04-06 05:57:27 PM

ParagonComplex: A 19 year old high school student? That was my first thought. Then I realized I went to school with a dang 22 year old. It isn't unheard of nowadays for people to fail a grade.


Eh, I graduated at 19. I did a "transitional" year after kindergarten for kids apparently not ready for first grade. My district was fine with me skipping three years after I missed four of them from soul-crushing depression as well.

Looking back on it, my school system was pretty nice to me.
 
2013-04-06 06:39:59 PM

Sheseala: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x238]

Or, you know, we could just stop caring what types of clothes are suitable for what gender.  So someone wants to wear a dress, big whoop.


Pretty much.  it's a sort of inverse Pascal's Wager.  If she's really transgendered, then she should be allowed to wear what she wants as befits her gender and self-image.  If, OTOH, this is really a dude attention-whoring for his buds in third-period Calculus, then, well, ignoring an AW is usually the right thing to do and usually takes the wind out of his sails.  There's no way the school can lose by saying "Fine, wear what you want."

By not allowing this person to wear a dress, they're either calling attention to themselves as transphobic bigots, or giving an AW what he wants.

FWIW, I don't think garments like dresses and skirts should be marked as being "women only" either.  I've worn skirts.  They're comfy.  I'd wear one in public if not for the fact that I'd be  being an attention whoremaking a political statement about gender by doing so, in addition to wearing a garment that I find comfortable, attractive, and shows off my assets.  (I have great legs.)
 
2013-04-06 07:02:48 PM

geekbikerskum: Sheseala: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x238]

Or, you know, we could just stop caring what types of clothes are suitable for what gender.  So someone wants to wear a dress, big whoop.

Pretty much.  it's a sort of inverse Pascal's Wager.  If she's really transgendered, then she should be allowed to wear what she wants as befits her gender and self-image.  If, OTOH, this is really a dude attention-whoring for his buds in third-period Calculus, then, well, ignoring an AW is usually the right thing to do and usually takes the wind out of his sails.  There's no way the school can lose by saying "Fine, wear what you want."

By not allowing this person to wear a dress, they're either calling attention to themselves as transphobic bigots, or giving an AW what he wants.

FWIW, I don't think garments like dresses and skirts should be marked as being "women only" either.  I've worn skirts.  They're comfy.  I'd wear one in public if not for the fact that I'd be  being an attention whoremaking a political statement about gender by doing so, in addition to wearing a garment that I find comfortable, attractive, and shows off my assets.  (I have great legs.)


I don't even care about the attention whore angle. Why should anyone be disallowed from wearing a dress? Stopping men/transpeople/whoever from wearing dresses, skirts or traditionally feminine clothing is just as stupid as stopping women from wearing pants was back in the day. Saying people born with penises must wear pants to the prom is as dumb as saying people born with a vagina must wear dresses, which, if I recall, some schools care about too. Either way, it's just dumb. Why do we need to care as a society about making rules to enforce gender norms through clothing?
 
2013-04-06 07:29:02 PM

ambercat: I don't even care about the attention whore angle. Why should anyone be disallowed from wearing a dress? Stopping men/transpeople/whoever from wearing dresses, skirts or traditionally feminine clothing is just as stupid as stopping women from wearing pants was back in the day. Saying people born with penises must wear pants to the prom is as dumb as saying people born with a vagina must wear dresses, which, if I recall, some schools care about too. Either way, it's just dumb. Why do we need to care as a society about making rules to enforce gender norms through clothing?


Yeah, pretty much that.

They could have a dress code at the prom without making it gendered, just with "Formal attire required."  This would also make the dress code non-culture-centric, allowing students who are from non-USAn cultures, or who wish to celebrate their heritage, to wear formal dress appropriate to their culture of origin.
 
2013-04-06 07:59:20 PM

JPINFV: omeganuepsilon: Gender is a range of physical, mental, and behavioral characteristics distinguishing between masculinity and femininity.[1][2][3] Depending on the context, the term may refer to sex (i.e. the state of being male or female), social roles (as in gender roles), or gender identity.

In context of my post, if we were to do away with the bigoted social structure(as is typical in non-biased science), that leaves only physical characteristics.

People behave and think like people. No need to deploy masculine and feminine to how people act or think.

Except gender is not just nurture but also nature. Otherwise David Reimer would still be alive.

...and in the field of applied science known as "medicine," gender is not the same as sex, as evidence as things like testicular feminization or xx male syndrome.


You're exactly the problem.  You want to perpetuate gender roles instead of just letting people be themselves with whatever tastes and senses of style and comfort they have.

Your definition of "gender" is a societal construct, and no more valid than someone who would look down on boys for playing with "girl" toys, or cross dressers, or any other sort of bigot.

That's the flaw with so many liberal stances, they claim to want to do away with X, but still ascribe to the same structure, just with gentler words. It's a shame really.
 
2013-04-06 08:06:46 PM

omeganuepsilon: You're exactly the problem. You want to perpetuate gender roles instead of just letting people be themselves with whatever tastes and senses of style and comfort they have


Perpetuating something and recognizing that it exists are not the same thing. Pretending that something you don't like isn't present neither makes it go away nor is it helpful to people facing real world problems.
 
2013-04-06 08:18:41 PM

geekbikerskum: ambercat: I don't even care about the attention whore angle. Why should anyone be disallowed from wearing a dress? Stopping men/transpeople/whoever from wearing dresses, skirts or traditionally feminine clothing is just as stupid as stopping women from wearing pants was back in the day. Saying people born with penises must wear pants to the prom is as dumb as saying people born with a vagina must wear dresses, which, if I recall, some schools care about too. Either way, it's just dumb. Why do we need to care as a society about making rules to enforce gender norms through clothing?

Yeah, pretty much that.

They could have a dress code at the prom without making it gendered, just with "Formal attire required."  This would also make the dress code non-culture-centric, allowing students who are from non-USAn cultures, or who wish to celebrate their heritage, to wear formal dress appropriate to their culture of origin.


That's so sensible it will probably never happen. But, I like to dream.
 
2013-04-06 08:45:50 PM

ambercat: That's so sensible it will probably never happen. But, I like to dream.I


There's a lot of stuff about schools that isn't about sense, but about control, and obedience to petty rules laid down by petty authority.
 
2013-04-06 08:52:49 PM

JPINFV: omeganuepsilon: You're exactly the problem. You want to perpetuate gender roles instead of just letting people be themselves with whatever tastes and senses of style and comfort they have

Perpetuating something and recognizing that it exists are not the same thing. Pretending that something you don't like isn't present neither makes it go away nor is it helpful to people facing real world problems.


Simply acquiescing to the status quo doesn't help change it.
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-06 09:47:06 PM

God-is-a-Taco: Eh, I graduated at 19. I did a "transitional" year after kindergarten for kids apparently not ready for first grade. My district was fine with me skipping three years after I missed four of them from soul-crushing depression as well.

Looking back on it, my school system was pretty nice to me.


Seems like they were nice. It's good that they were understanding about the depression as well. It's something no one could understand unless they've been through it themselves. Hopefully you're doing a lot better now. ^_^
 
2013-04-06 11:31:32 PM

BarkingUnicorn: This the original Wang, subby:

[www.gearslutz.com image 400x300]


upload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.org
Frowns on your shenanigans.
Also wants to know if you want to wash Wang, or watch Wang wash Wang.
 
2013-04-06 11:38:30 PM

hardinparamedic: Being a transgendered individual is not something someone can suddenly up and decide to do in a day's time. It's not crossdressing, and it's not a sexual fetish.


Err, it can be.  You're confusing transsexual and transgender.
 
2013-04-07 12:58:55 AM

The One True TheDavid: Make Society stop castrating men because they're not "normal."


Women can become men.  Stop acting as though this is some twisted component of your men's rights movement.
 
2013-04-07 01:03:12 AM

ciberido: hardinparamedic: Being a transgendered individual is not something someone can suddenly up and decide to do in a day's time. It's not crossdressing, and it's not a sexual fetish.

Err, it can be.  You're confusing transsexual and transgender.


It happens even I used to think they were the same. Just sayin'.

/And yea do know something about all this.
 
2013-04-07 01:10:23 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: The One True TheDavid: Make Society stop castrating men because they're not "normal."

Women can become men.  Stop acting as though this is some twisted component of your men's rights movement.


Thank you : )
 
2013-04-07 10:02:27 PM
Capo Del Bandito:

Would you trust a person's self diagnosis of an ailment?

Most people are grossly uneducated and prefer to use 'feelings' instead of analytical thinking.


Hey! I 'feel' that I'm One Of The World's Greatest Geniuses (Except For Science & Math). What good is this "analytical thinking" of yours against how I see myself deep down inside? You just want to oppress me because you're a H4T3R!!

My dog clearly wants to be a cat. How much would that cost?
 
2013-04-07 10:37:07 PM
Peki:

I'm a female body that wants to be a hermaphrodite.

For female bodies they make these things called "strap ons." I know a dyke who found one on Amazon that gets both partners off: if you can't find it yourself maybe I can track down the email. (Lots of guys are into getting pegged by women; I wonder why they don't find a real man, but there's no accounting for taste.)

As for male bodies I can always express my feminine side by sucking a cock or taking it up the butt, which could be a lot of fun when I felt like doing that. For that matter this one woman liked to "toy" me, and another used to "make" me "suck her dick" (Mary did have a good-sized clitoris).

"Psychological hermaproditism," as I'm sure you're aware, ain't that hard to make something of.


You really think there's a psychologist that would write me off for reassignment surgery or hormones? Not that I know of.


How would you become hermaphrodite with surgery?

As for hormones, it shouldn't be that hard to find: another way of saying "male hormones" is anabolic steroids. Find a boxing gym or weight-training club and make a friend or two.

A hairy stocky biatch with a plastic cock sounds like the opposite of what I like in boys, lt alone women. But then I'm weird.

For that matter male trannies can take estrogen plus progesterone female birth control pills.

I think hormones are too far to go -- I won't even ask a woman to take birth control pills, I got a vasectomy instead -- but the world is regrettably full of people who aren't as kind & gentle as me.

Anyway. People get too hung up on what's "appropriate" for their (physical) sex and think if they're "abnormal" they should change their bodies: that's Societal brainwashing showing itself. IMHO people should accept that who thy are might not match of with what Society prefers and instead of changing their bodies we should change Society instead.

By the way, I'd let the right woman peg me if she were very careful about my old guy's hemorrhoids: if somebody's partner won't or can't accomodate one's tastes -- or let you do it with somebody else -- you should find another partner. (That I don't have a more interesting sex life has more to do with being old, broke, fat & ugly than with what I'd do for love.)

In case this is news to anybody, for some reason open-minded "sexual deviants" tend to congregate in San Francisco and the surrounding area: if I wanted to find a butch woman to make make her biatch that's the first place I'd look.

Anyway.
 
2013-04-07 10:43:50 PM
hardinparamedic:

Gender has nothing to do with biological sex. You can be a biological male, and develop the brain chemistry and physiology of female. This is also not a new thing. It's been floating around since the late 80s.

Um, no, if you're a biological male you cannot have the physiology of female.

You probably mean "psychology of female."
 
2013-04-07 10:49:21 PM
mafiageek1980:

I didn't know I was transgendered until I was 31.

How can you not know which gender you are?


Maybe you mean transsexual, not transgender.

I've always been "unconventionally gendered" but my genitalia suit me fine. If "They" don't like how I am that's their problem.
 
2013-04-07 10:51:52 PM

Koodz: Can't find the image, so here it is, for trolling purposes:

Kid B (the younger one) says to Kid A, "you're a lesbian!" and quick as a flash, their mother says, "Boys can't be lesbians, eat your hamburger."


She's right, boys & men can't be lesbians.
 
2013-04-07 10:53:20 PM
hardinparamedic:

Being a transgendered individual is not something someone can suddenly up and decide to do in a day's time. It's not crossdressing, and it's not a sexual fetish.

No, it's not: it's a Societally-instilled mental illness.
 
2013-04-07 10:56:38 PM

The One True TheDavid: hardinparamedic:

Being a transgendered individual is not something someone can suddenly up and decide to do in a day's time. It's not crossdressing, and it's not a sexual fetish.

No, it's not: it's a Societally-instilled mental illness.


In the sense you're talking about, which I'd prefer to call "transsexual," not "transgendered."

Gender can change; sex can't. Nothing will ever make Chaz Bono a real man: she should have stuck to "bull dyke," she would have kept her lesbian girlfriend.
 
2013-04-07 10:57:54 PM

WhippingBoy: hardinparamedic: Capo Del Bandito:

OH! So this student is just an attention whore!

We got that.

And your rationale for that statement is?

How dare she want to dress as her gender, right.

How dare you try to enforce gender stereotypes, right.


THIS.
 
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