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(LA Times)   Police departments receive training in dealing with 'sovereign citizens'. Regicide?   (latimes.com) divider line 378
    More: Interesting, sovereign citizens, Contra Costa County, Santa Rosa County, oaths of office, finches, money orders, West Memphis, monarchs  
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9539 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2013 at 11:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-06 02:24:58 PM
FTA: "Even nonviolent sovereigns can cause headaches through what Finch calls "paper terrorism."


Are YOU a "paper terrorist"?


Remember, under NADA 2011, you only have to be ACCUSED to be held indefinitely - without charges, trial or recourse - until the "end of (paper terrorist) hostilities", or until hell freezes over - which ever comes first.
 
2013-04-06 02:25:15 PM

Farking Canuck: It is very simple. Ask them if they are a citizen.

If they say yes then inform them that the must follow the laws of the land.

If they say no then lock them up until you can find a country to deport them to.


And if they refuse to answer?
 
2013-04-06 02:27:03 PM
The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.
 
2013-04-06 02:27:05 PM
We used to have a solution for people like this.  Then we deinstitutionalized all the nutters.
 
2013-04-06 02:27:20 PM

atomicmask: lostcat: atomicmask: bighairyguy: I'd like to propose the following procedure for law enforcement:

Officer: Your license and registration please.
Sovereign Citizen: I'm a sovereign citizen and you have no authority over me!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZE!
Sovereign Citizen: EEEEEEAAAAAYYYYYAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Officer: Your license and registration please.
Repeat as necessary.

Cool, I guess you are ok with the following situation too?

Officer: Papers citizen
Regular person: I was simply walking down the sidewalk, I did nothing wrong!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZZZZZE
Person: AAAHHHHHHH!
officer: papers now citizen!
repeat necessary

And you honestly see this as something we have looming on the horizon?

There's two.

Looming on the horizon? Its here...A cop can stop you while walking and demand to see identification if the thinks a crime has happened. no proof, no call ins, no victims, just "suspects" you may be a criminal.


i1222.photobucket.com

You're either a pretty decent troll, or a sad person.
 
2013-04-06 02:27:50 PM

1000Monkeys: pedrop357

You're talking about sovereign citizens like they just want keep to themselves and live in some cave in the wilderness. Where'd you get this impression?

Sovereign citizens are notorious for spurious litigation, making up they're own laws, driving without licenses/plates, fraud, and, bizarrely, thinking that government owes them millions in secret accounts. It seems they want to be "left alone" don't want to "leave alone."


Most people here were talking about government use of roads, bullshiat "contracts", the idea that people using the internet owe allegiance to the government, and talk living off the grid, so I'm responding in kind.

I completely understand the issue behind various (at best) whacky and total horseshiat antics they engage in and it's why I don't support them.

BUT, using them as a reason to whip up hysteria about people who don't respect the authority of the police when most cops already think that those who exercise their rights are troublemakers is a great way for the police to justify even more abusive conduct towards people who stand up for their rights.

The sovereign citizen types you described would be 5th and 6th rate nobodies if the lefty authoritarians would cool their jets.
 
2013-04-06 02:27:59 PM

sweet-daddy-2: While I agree these " sovereign " citizens are wrong in their basic thinking, it's the police training that concerns me. At what point does a cop make the distinction between a law abiding citizen, standing on his or her 4th amendment rights, and a law breaking sovereign? Or will he?


That is covered in the training.  It doesn't take 8 hours to teach a cop, "This guy is farking with you."
 
2013-04-06 02:28:20 PM

Corn_Fed: The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.


says the little statist who loves the boot on his face.
 
2013-04-06 02:28:35 PM

Corn_Fed: The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.


And armed people who don't subscribe to their bullshiat.
 
2013-04-06 02:29:47 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: GreatGlavinsGhost: Sovereign = Teabagger under a blah President.

That's not entirely fair, we also had militias under Bill Clinton.


I believe they've evolved.

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: pedrop357: Companies were working on their own inter-networking solutions

"Sorry, Bob, you're AT&T's internet and I'm on Microsoft's, our email isn't compatible."


lulz
 
2013-04-06 02:30:11 PM
We can drone strike them. If they're not Americans or members of a UN recognized nation, then they aren't protected under the laws of the United States or any treaty we as a nation have signed.

CNN Reporter: "And in other news today, senior Pentagon officials announce the dissolution of the small south Florida nations Earlistan and Smithtoria. Both nations were considered extremely hostile to American security interests after occupying US held territory."
 
2013-04-06 02:30:18 PM

Kittypie070: please pardon the repost

[feedlol.com image 668x401]



Here's another:

www.history.com

What a "Paper Terrorist's"  "Terror Paper" might look like.


Do you think King George saw this as anything OTHER than "terrorism" - a challenge to HIS "authoritay"?
 
2013-04-06 02:32:01 PM
If you're going to claim yourself as a sovereign citizen, you should probably back your words up with a death-triggered motorcycle-mounted hydrogen bomb and brutal glass-knife skills. Otherwise, STFU and GBTW.
fc06.deviantart.net
 
2013-04-06 02:32:23 PM

dksuddeth: Corn_Fed: The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.

says the little statist who loves the boot on his face.


Well, Texan--do you support the death penalty? Yes or no?

Did you support the Iraq invasion, at the time, in 2003?

Tell the truth, Texan.
 
2013-04-06 02:32:30 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Farking Canuck: It is very simple. Ask them if they are a citizen.

If they say yes then inform them that the must follow the laws of the land.

If they say no then lock them up until you can find a country to deport them to.

And if they refuse to answer?



Easy.
 
2013-04-06 02:33:17 PM

pedrop357: I know, companies never come up with interoperable protocols/standards on their own.

You can't connect an LG TV to a Samsung DVD player


Because compatible AV connections is comparable to the breadth of standards, networking, and systems that comprise the Internet?

pedrop357: Lotus Domino can't send email to someone with Exchange.


Well, they couldn't. And then came POP, courtesy of the IETF, who was started and initially run by... oh right. Government funded researchers.
 
2013-04-06 02:35:35 PM

HoratioGates: We used to have a solution for people like this.  Then we deinstitutionalized all the nutters.


To be less insulting and more honest, we used to have frontier they could shuffle off to.

And if they came back from the frontier a little humbled, well...
 
2013-04-06 02:36:31 PM

dksuddeth: Corn_Fed: The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.

says the little statist who loves the boot on his face.


I don't trust the police.

I trust rightwing sovereigns even less.
 
2013-04-06 02:38:17 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Kittypie070: pedrop is deeply and foully oppressed by being expected to obey the hideous, satanic laws set forth in this document.

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x432]

I wonder if there are those who see 'We The People' and think of the royal 'We.'

\I personally see it as the Adam We


You're thinking of Adam West.

/to the Batcave, chum!
 
2013-04-06 02:43:03 PM

Corn_Fed: dksuddeth: Corn_Fed: The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.

says the little statist who loves the boot on his face.

I don't trust the police.

I trust rightwing sovereigns even less.


I'm the opposite.  The rightwing "sovereign" doesn't have the full weight and power of the government to back him up, and the government won't support the results of his group's investigation and subsequent clearing of his conduct.
 
2013-04-06 02:43:50 PM

ClintonKun: If you're going to claim yourself as a sovereign citizen, you should probably back your words up with a death-triggered motorcycle-mounted hydrogen bomb and brutal glass-knife skills. Otherwise, STFU and GBTW.
[fc06.deviantart.net image 701x965]


Annoying, poorly written book clearly cobbled together from previous shorter works.  Not much of a point besides pushing the "ooooh cool" buttons of 14 year old boys and stealing someone else's idea about information-as-pathogen.

(Summary: I though Snow Crash sucked)
 
2013-04-06 02:44:52 PM

lostcat: When was the last time this happened to you, and how is this any different from how things have been historically? I don't remember a time when a cop didn't have the right to stop someone and ask to see identification in the investigation of a crime.

The last time it happened to me was 20 years ago when I was in college, living in a home with rented rooms. One of the tenets was wanted on a warrant, so the cop came to the house and asked to check the ids of all the men present. It didn't bother me one bit. If the guy was wanted, why shouldn't the cops question the people who live at his address and verify that none of the people there are him?


The whining starts when one of the guys the cops are not looking for turns out to have an outstanding warrant.  That guy argues that he had a right to evade the warrant; that is, the cops had no right to run a warrant check on him.

They also object to having their IDs entered in a database of "contacts made during investigation of a crime" because that, supposedly, marks them for future oppression.
 
2013-04-06 02:48:49 PM

BarkingUnicorn: lostcat: When was the last time this happened to you, and how is this any different from how things have been historically? I don't remember a time when a cop didn't have the right to stop someone and ask to see identification in the investigation of a crime.

The last time it happened to me was 20 years ago when I was in college, living in a home with rented rooms. One of the tenets was wanted on a warrant, so the cop came to the house and asked to check the ids of all the men present. It didn't bother me one bit. If the guy was wanted, why shouldn't the cops question the people who live at his address and verify that none of the people there are him?

The whining starts when one of the guys the cops are not looking for turns out to have an outstanding warrant.  That guy argues that he had a right to evade the warrant; that is, the cops had no right to run a warrant check on him.

They also object to having their IDs entered in a database of "contacts made during investigation of a crime" because that, supposedly, marks them for future oppression.


The solution I've found useful is: Avoid breaking laws. Sure, innocent people get convicted, but in my experience, going to work, spending time with friends, and sleeping at home with my family tends to offer a pretty robust alibi for most crimes I didn't commit.
 
2013-04-06 02:49:46 PM

pedrop357: 1000Monkeys: pedrop357

You're talking about sovereign citizens like they just want keep to themselves and live in some cave in the wilderness. Where'd you get this impression?

Sovereign citizens are notorious for spurious litigation, making up they're own laws, driving without licenses/plates, fraud, and, bizarrely, thinking that government owes them millions in secret accounts. It seems they want to be "left alone" don't want to "leave alone."

Most people here were talking about government use of roads, bullshiat "contracts", the idea that people using the internet owe allegiance to the government, and talk living off the grid, so I'm responding in kind.

I completely understand the issue behind various (at best) whacky and total horseshiat antics they engage in and it's why I don't support them.

BUT, using them as a reason to whip up hysteria about people who don't respect the authority of the police when most cops already think that those who exercise their rights are troublemakers is a great way for the police to justify even more abusive conduct towards people who stand up for their rights.

The sovereign citizen types you described would be 5th and 6th rate nobodies if the lefty authoritarians would cool their jets.


Dude drives like ass on public roads and refuses to get a license or insurance. Dude has to go to court. Dude responds by taking out fraudulent liens against judge, prosecutor, and officer.

Fark these people. Down here they try to adversely possess houses with fake deeds and waste everyone's time I court with stupid stories about the government being a trust they have authority over
 
2013-04-06 02:50:01 PM
If you know the name of the king or queen being murdered, press 1.
 
2013-04-06 02:50:58 PM

atomicmask: Furthermore FARK, the land of self hating pasty white lib coonts, seems to have a love/hate relationship with authoritarians..

If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...


Now I remember why I had you coded red.
 
2013-04-06 02:51:14 PM

lostcat: The solution I've found useful is: Avoid breaking laws. Sure, innocent people get convicted, but in my experience, going to work, spending time with friends, and sleeping at home with my family tends to offer a pretty robust alibi for most crimes I didn't commit.


Ah the mark of a small minded asshole.

Solution to police problems: Just don't break any laws.  Sure, innocent people get convicted, which undermines the implied idea that those who don't break the law won't have problems with the police and/or the idea that only those who break the laws have problems with the police.

But, nothing's ever happened to you, so nobody should really worry about it.
 
2013-04-06 02:51:55 PM
"The policeman isn't there to create disorder.  The policeman is there to preserve disorder."  -RJ Daley
 
2013-04-06 02:52:11 PM

Precision Boobery: If you know the name of the king or queen being murdered, press 1.


I was only 2 minutes late!
 
2013-04-06 02:53:51 PM

pedrop357: Corn_Fed: dksuddeth: Corn_Fed: The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.

says the little statist who loves the boot on his face.

I don't trust the police.

I trust rightwing sovereigns even less.

I'm the opposite.  The rightwing "sovereign" doesn't have the full weight and power of the government to back him up, and the government won't support the results of his group's investigation and subsequent clearing of his conduct.


He only needs to be a little tougher and luckier than you and when you're dead it really doesn't matter to you if he gets away with it.

The question is whether a SC is more inhibited than a cop.  Trust is the belief  that you can predict another person's behavior with an acceptable degree of confidence.
 
2013-04-06 02:56:45 PM

BullBearMS: Generation_D: Its one thing to think the cops are cartooney at times, they certainly are.

Its quite another to start babbling about how you pay your taxes in silver paper and you refuse to form joinder and you are a human being and a man, therefore laws don't apply to you.

I'm sure some of them are crazy, but weren't we just recently say that we needed to do more to help people with mental illness?

If their whole delusion is that they think the Government is out to get them, then officially declaring them terrorists and sending in swat teams goes firmly under the category of...

[dl.dropbox.com image 480x360]


What would you suggest instead, leaving out warm milk and cookies?
 
2013-04-06 02:58:03 PM

Dawg47: Dude drives like ass on public roads and refuses to get a license or insurance. Dude has to go to court. Dude responds by taking out fraudulent liens against judge, prosecutor, and officer.

Fark these people. Down here they try to adversely possess houses with fake deeds and waste everyone's time I court with stupid stories about the government being a trust they have authority over


Agreed.  fark these people.

If the focus was on that shiat, I'd be posting totally different things.  Instead, we get a lot of talk about how people can't complain about the government because they use the internet or how their use of roads means they've signed some social contract and agree to everything society wants to impose on them and have no justification trying to escape any of it by distancing themselves from society.  Part of the problem seems to be an improper blending of these "soveriegn citizens" with the less assholy 'individualist' types.   That, and the police seem to be setting the stage to start conflating anyone who exercises their rights with these "sovereign citizen types".
 
2013-04-06 02:59:20 PM

BarkingUnicorn: He only needs to be a little tougher and luckier than you and when you're dead it really doesn't matter to you if he gets away with it.

The question is whether a SC is more inhibited than a cop. Trust is the belief that you can predict another person's behavior with an acceptable degree of confidence.


Agreed.  I have a slightly stronger trust that the SC will be inhibited because he knows he can't just claim "I thought I saw a gun" or "he was making furtive movements" and get away with it.

Hopefully I never get to find out if I'm wrong.
 
2013-04-06 02:59:21 PM

pedrop357: Corn_Fed: dksuddeth: Corn_Fed: The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.

says the little statist who loves the boot on his face.

I don't trust the police.

I trust rightwing sovereigns even less.

I'm the opposite.  The rightwing "sovereign" doesn't have the full weight and power of the government to back him up, and the government won't support the results of his group's investigation and subsequent clearing of his conduct.


Meh. Two peas in a pod. You're both dangerous to a well-functioning, free society.
 
2013-04-06 03:02:11 PM

Corn_Fed: pedrop357: Corn_Fed: dksuddeth: Corn_Fed: The only thing keeping the well-armed "sovereign" rightwing wolves from the Newtown sheep is....the police.

says the little statist who loves the boot on his face.

I don't trust the police.

I trust rightwing sovereigns even less.

I'm the opposite.  The rightwing "sovereign" doesn't have the full weight and power of the government to back him up, and the government won't support the results of his group's investigation and subsequent clearing of his conduct.

Meh. Two peas in a pod. You're both dangerous to a well-functioning, free society.


If this the litmus test for how you define "well-functioning, free society ", then you'll understand if I don't support it.
 
2013-04-06 03:02:26 PM

pedrop357: Dawg47: Dude drives like ass on public roads and refuses to get a license or insurance. Dude has to go to court. Dude responds by taking out fraudulent liens against judge, prosecutor, and officer.

Fark these people. Down here they try to adversely possess houses with fake deeds and waste everyone's time I court with stupid stories about the government being a trust they have authority over

Agreed.  fark these people.

If the focus was on that shiat, I'd be posting totally different things.  Instead, we get a lot of talk about how people can't complain about the government because they use the internet or how their use of roads means they've signed some social contract and agree to everything society wants to impose on them and have no justification trying to escape any of it by distancing themselves from society.  Part of the problem seems to be an improper blending of these "soveriegn citizens" with the less assholy 'individualist' types.   That, and the police seem to be setting the stage to start conflating anyone who exercises their rights with these "sovereign citizen types".


What evidence do you have to support your claim that the police are confusing civil rights advocates with the sovereign citizen nuts?
 
2013-04-06 03:02:35 PM

lostcat: BarkingUnicorn: lostcat: When was the last time this happened to you, and how is this any different from how things have been historically? I don't remember a time when a cop didn't have the right to stop someone and ask to see identification in the investigation of a crime.

The last time it happened to me was 20 years ago when I was in college, living in a home with rented rooms. One of the tenets was wanted on a warrant, so the cop came to the house and asked to check the ids of all the men present. It didn't bother me one bit. If the guy was wanted, why shouldn't the cops question the people who live at his address and verify that none of the people there are him?

The whining starts when one of the guys the cops are not looking for turns out to have an outstanding warrant.  That guy argues that he had a right to evade the warrant; that is, the cops had no right to run a warrant check on him.

They also object to having their IDs entered in a database of "contacts made during investigation of a crime" because that, supposedly, marks them for future oppression.

The solution I've found useful is: Avoid breaking laws. Sure, innocent people get convicted, but in my experience, going to work, spending time with friends, and sleeping at home with my family tends to offer a pretty robust alibi for most crimes I didn't commit.


Yeah, that solves the warrant problem, except in the relatively rare case of an erroneous warrant (mistaken ID, ID theft, etc.).  Doesn't solve the second problem of being labeled a "usual suspect" to be rounded up every time a crime occurs.

Do these things occur often enough, and is their impact on individuals significant enough, to outweigh society's interest in having cops investigate crimes effectively?  The courts have generally ruled "no."

The subjects of such rights-infringements view it as, "My rights were infringed 100%, not 0.000001%."
 
2013-04-06 03:02:44 PM

pedrop357: Dawg47: Dude drives like ass on public roads and refuses to get a license or insurance. Dude has to go to court. Dude responds by taking out fraudulent liens against judge, prosecutor, and officer.

Fark these people. Down here they try to adversely possess houses with fake deeds and waste everyone's time I court with stupid stories about the government being a trust they have authority over

Agreed.  fark these people.

If the focus was on that shiat, I'd be posting totally different things.  Instead, we get a lot of talk about how people can't complain about the government because they use the internet or how their use of roads means they've signed some social contract and agree to everything society wants to impose on them and have no justification trying to escape any of it by distancing themselves from society.  Part of the problem seems to be an improper blending of these "soveriegn citizens" with the less assholy 'individualist' types.   That, and the police seem to be setting the stage to start conflating anyone who exercises their rights with these "sovereign citizen types".


Okay, that I can agree with. My problem with the sovereign citizens soley has to do with their fake paperwork, fake "joinder" crap, no licence plates, etc.
 
2013-04-06 03:02:56 PM
I know one of these guys... I've watched him go deeper and deeper into his rabbit hole over the years. It's sad. He's got his "Sovereign" plates and he's not paid taxes in years - of course, he's also not actually done any meaningful work for over a decade.

Last time he got hired fora an  actual job, he ended up being let go during his meeting with HR - he refused to sign I-9 or fill out W4 and started going off on his sovereign citizen stuff. They essentially told him not to let the door hit him in the butt on the way out (security escorted him  out).

The thing is that he's effectively a homeless guy with a (unregistered and uninsured) car ... sooner or later, I expect him to get thrown in jail for a relatively minor offense which he will escalate into major felony charges and/or contempt of court. He thinks the cops are "in on the conspiracy" and know not to mess with him... when in reality, he's just flown under the radar... for now.

/facepalm  quite sad - he used to be quite a productive person - not at all unintelligent either - I honestly believe this sovereign stuff in his case is pretty much a mental illness. It's an OCD thing and paranoid delusion... folks who tend toward that are starting to connect more and  more due to the Interwebz, and they feel common ground with others who think in similar ways.

Basically, these are also the 9/11 truthers, the Newtown Truthers, the anti tax folks, the tea part, the home schoolers, the anti-vaxers, all these "anything is ok so long as  it's counter to 'the official story'"
 
2013-04-06 03:03:54 PM
I'm not sure what training is necessary. If someone is breaking laws and pretending the laws don't apply to them, then arrest and charge them. Let the prosecutors, the judge and jury decide why they're being belligerent dicks, not the police.
 
2013-04-06 03:06:24 PM
Straight jackets and electroshock therapy. These people are insane.
 
2013-04-06 03:07:51 PM
Simpsons did it.

No. Seriously. They have a reference for regicide.


Bart: [watching Flanders] An ax. He's got an ax! I'll save you, Lisa! [tries to walk on his leg, falls back] Uh, I'll save you by calling the police. [dials 911] Voice: Hello, and welcome to the Springfield Police Department Resc-u- Fone[tm]. If you know the name of the felony being committed, press one. To choose from a list of felonies, press two. If you are being murdered or calling from a rotary phone, please stay on the line. Bart: [growls, punches some numbers] Voice: You have selected regicide. If you know the name of the king or queen being murdered, press one.-- Shockingly ineffective answering services, "Bart of Darkness"
 
2013-04-06 03:08:41 PM
Okay, so if I understand it right, these nutjobs renounce their US citizenship and deny the US government has any authority over them. Fair enough. The only question is where we can deport them. Can we deport people to the moon yet?
 
2013-04-06 03:10:12 PM

drxym: I'm not sure what training is necessary. If someone is breaking laws and pretending the laws don't apply to them, then arrest and charge them. Let the prosecutors, the judge and jury decide why they're being belligerent dicks, not the police.


This training program is a counterpoint to all the "sensitivity" and "community relations" training that cops receive every time some citizen gets butthurt.
 
2013-04-06 03:10:42 PM

pedrop357: SuperSeriousMan: Krymson Tyde: I don't mind people being 'sovereign citizens' but the deal is you don't get to use any government services, public utilities, roads, etc.

I think we should present everyone of these wack-a-loons with a bill for using federal roads and infrastructure, which was paid for and obviously designed solely for the use of U.S. citizens.

I'm thinking about $10,000 per month would be an amicable fee for clean air, clean water, non-contaminated food, access to roads and bridges, etc etc and so forth.

But you're not a control freak, right?

I always love this counter response that basically says that the government owns all of us because we used or once used some service that was provided or regulated by the government.

Non contaminated food exists on numerous farms and slaughterhouses without a single government official doing anything.  It's surprisingly easy for families that eat what they raise/grow to just follow basic sanitary practices even without the watchful eye of the government.

They paid for most of that stuff whether they wanted too or not.  If they put fuel in their vehicles and purchased tires, they've paid for access to the roads and bridges for example.


It always amazes me when idiots like this try to act like the system is the root of these problems not the individuals engaging in criminal and often times monumentally bizarre activities. If thats the case why don't more people do it? Oh I forgot because we're all "sheeple" an insult I would like to add, invented as part of a marketing scheme devised by an international car company. If it were up to me the worthless shiatheel sovereigns could just head for Oregon to die of dysentery butchering oxen as needed. But unfortunately for those of us who play by the rules our public hospital system doesn't have the luxury of telling them to go die in the wilderness. These people are like a really really biatchy woman married to a really nice guy or vice versa. They do whatever they feel like, screw around, beat em up, say things that are unforgivable and every other type of offense or indignity they can perpetrate against their spouse because they know Mr. Nice Guy/Girl would never dream of saying shiat. They are spoiled pathetic children who have been convinced by equally moronic people like RON PAUL! that the rules can be whatever they say they are if they just stick their head far enough up their own ass.
 
2013-04-06 03:10:44 PM

hardinparamedic: After what they did in West memphis in 2010, I say shoot first, Ask questions later.

/ knows the son of the assistant chief who was shot in the second shoot out.
// He flew his own dad to the trauma center.


Occasionally I support taser-happy cops, and dealing with those loonies is such a situation
 
2013-04-06 03:10:50 PM
rebelyell2006: pedrop357: If the focus was on that shiat, I'd be posting totally different things. Instead, we get a lot of talk about how people can't complain about the government because they use the internet or how their use of roads means they've signed some social contract and agree to everything society wants to impose on them and have no justification trying to escape any of it by distancing themselves from society. Part of the problem seems to be an improper blending of these "soveriegn citizens" with the less assholy 'individualist' types. That, and the police seem to be setting the stage to start conflating anyone who exercises their rights with these "sovereign citizen types".

What evidence do you have to support your claim that the police are confusing civil rights advocates with the sovereign citizen nuts?


Re-read the bolded part for the answer.

The police seem to be, at best, dismissive of people who exercise their rights.  At worst, they're openly hostile and abusive. Now we have more people whipping up hysteria about 3rd and 4th rate groups that also like much more vociferously exercise their rights and of which a very few have been involved in violence against cops.

One takeaway from this is that the police who already seem to think their safety is the most important thing around and any slight thing that might be construed as a threat is worthy of overwhelming force will now be even more likely to use force against people who exercise their rights under the misguided impression that the person in question is one of those 'sovereign whatevers that kills cops'
 
2013-04-06 03:11:15 PM
Here's a reality check, kids: Whoever has the clear power advantage in any given situation is THE AUTHORITY.

It doesn't matter whether it is parent vs toddler, teacher vs  student, employee vs  boss, citizen vs  cop, or victim vs  mugger. The party with the most power RULES.

Of course you can always challenge the cop with a gun in your face, the mugger with a knife in your ribs, or the bureaucrat with a paper in its hand, but in each case, you risk potentially dire consequences in so doing - so the natural instinct toward of self-preservation and continued breathing would suggest that cooperation is usually advised.

At this moment, the body with the greatest POWER in the US is (obviously) the Federal Government, followed by State and local governments - which are (generally) backed by the former. They have the AUTHORITAY and the raw power to enforce it. They DON'T appreciate resistance, and you would do well to cooperate.

Of course it is the nature of those who "have" to want MORE - be it money or power, or what have you - and you may have noticed that the Supreme Power is by no means satisfied with the power advantage they have, but continually works to grab and consolidate MORE power - which means removing "power" (rights and liberties) from the "lesser entities" (states, locals, and common rabble). They are ESPECIALLY interested in removing from the latter any means, method or ability that might present a CHALLENGE to their power - their AUTHORITAY.

Which may be why they call *anyone* who doesn't recognize and bow before their authority "terrorists".

Are you a terrorist?

I know I'm not. I give due respect to anyone who can put the gun in my face, or the knife in my ribs.

Common sense, don't you think?
 
2013-04-06 03:14:37 PM

Ima4nic8or: The sovereigns are clearly deluded nutjobs but terrorists?  A terrorist is someone who uses attacks on civilians to further a political agenda.  While these folks have a political agenda they do not generally espouse or engage in attacks on the civilian population.

The word "terrorist" has lost all meaning in the last few years.  News agencies should really refrain from using it.  It is now commonly applied to any sort of criminal, rather than according to its actual meaning.


They crossed the line of "harmless crazies" when they began blowing away cops. Oh I forgot these were probably just "isolated incidents." Wow I find myself putting so many thing in quotes these days I wonder if I'm becoming cynical.
 
2013-04-06 03:15:28 PM

Fano: Treat them like Emperor Norton.


Norton was a nut, but he didn't shoot anyone.
 
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