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(LA Times)   Police departments receive training in dealing with 'sovereign citizens'. Regicide?   (latimes.com) divider line 378
    More: Interesting, sovereign citizens, Contra Costa County, Santa Rosa County, oaths of office, finches, money orders, West Memphis, monarchs  
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9550 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2013 at 11:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-06 01:02:02 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Then the so-called 'sovereign citizen' isn't playing by his own rules; he's supporting and obeying a government he does not recognize as legitimate.


Are you sure you're not applying your own definition f what their rules are, aka strawman?

He's voluntarily interacting with an individual or company, how is that not playing by his own rules?
 
2013-04-06 01:02:12 PM  
It is very simple. Ask them if they are a citizen.

If they say yes then inform them that the must follow the laws of the land.

If they say no then lock them up until you can find a country to deport them to.
 
2013-04-06 01:02:31 PM  
I can't believe that all of you are taking the side of Big Borther in this. We are all free white men (women and minorites do not count). Just look at this blatant abuse of power that all of you are championing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqZBeDW3rWY
 
2013-04-06 01:02:36 PM  

cig-mkr: So, a person can't purchase a few hundred acres, construct shelter, cut wood for fire, hunt and fish, live off the land, and barter for goods without being a terrorist ? As long as they don't use publicly funded resources I say leave him alone.


That's all well and good until something goes wrong. If a crime is committed on their property, they still want police protection. If someone gets sick or injured, they still want to use ambulances and hospitals. If there's a fire they still want the FD to come out.

And even then, you're assuming they won't want sewer hookups, electricity, telecom connections of any kind, own a car, use roads, bank, have any kind of insurance, etc.

What happens to Rugged Individualist when there's a severe drought? He dies or he goes on the dole, and we pick up the tab.
 
2013-04-06 01:03:16 PM  

Farking Canuck: It is very simple. Ask them if they are a citizen.

If they say yes then inform them that the must follow the laws of the land.

If they say no then lock them up until you can find a country to deport them to.


California laughs at your post.
 
2013-04-06 01:03:51 PM  

pedrop357: rustypouch: If they don't like the rules of a country, there's little stopping them from moving to a country that's more to their liking.

Ah, the old "if you don't like it, you can just get out" canard.  Let's try that with gay marriage or voter ID and see if anyone agrees.


But those people are actively trying to make the country a better place. Sovereign citizens seem to be  taking advantage of everything that a prosperous, stable country has to offer, while resenting having to contribute. If these people want to be left alone, let's go all out. If I had the power, I'd refund every cent of taxes they had ever paid, and exempt them from all future taxes, under the condition that they wouldn't have access to anything that government provides.
 
2013-04-06 01:03:59 PM  

Milo Minderbinder: That's my point. To be truly off the grid, you pretty much have to live like a cave man. The minute you start interacting with society, you have to play by society's rules.


I best most people wouldn't have any problem with that except that any interaction becomes a justification for 100% control.  He drives on public roads and does this, thus the government can regulate his cave and the food he grows in it, etc.
 
2013-04-06 01:04:53 PM  

maxalt: Since the 1930's the US has become more and more of a police state. Prior to the 1980's you did not have to carry id with you and if asked you name you could, and I did demand under what authority the police officer had in questioning me. I would try to egg the cops on, if I were walking and I saw a cop I would turn away from the cop and run like hell. They would ALWAYS chase me and demand to know why I was "running away?". I would just repeat over and over "Am I under arrest?" Once they answered "No" I would just walk away. Now the Police Court, I mean the Supreme Court has decided that you can be arrested for not having ID with you at all times and not producing the said ID upon the Police State demand. Yea America = Freedom.


I totally agree, that does suck.  You should write to your congressman and get your friends to do the same.  If he doesn't listen, you should find someone that does, get him to run for political office and then vote for him and get all your friends to vote for him as well.  If you can't get enough support, you should hone your arguments and try to convince anyone who will listen, then teach your children how to do this as well and concentrate on setting the foundation for change in the next generation.

What you shouldn't do is declare yourself a sovereignty citizen and start shooting cops.
 
2013-04-06 01:05:00 PM  

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: cig-mkr: So, a person can't purchase a few hundred acres, construct shelter, cut wood for fire, hunt and fish, live off the land, and barter for goods without being a terrorist ? As long as they don't use publicly funded resources I say leave him alone.

That's all well and good until something goes wrong. If a crime is committed on their property, they still want police protection. If someone gets sick or injured, they still want to use ambulances and hospitals. If there's a fire they still want the FD to come out.

And even then, you're assuming they won't want sewer hookups, electricity, telecom connections of any kind, own a car, use roads, bank, have any kind of insurance, etc.

What happens to Rugged Individualist when there's a severe drought? He dies or he goes on the dole, and we pick up the tab.


Awful lot of "mights" in there.
 
2013-04-06 01:05:16 PM  
Sovereigns assert that the U.S. Treasury has set up a secret money account for every American, which can be reclaimed through a bizarre set of legal filings known as redemption. They say everything from taxes to traffic tickets can be disposed of by drawing on the secret Treasury accounts through elaborate legal claims and mountains of paperwork.

So the government set aside money (which has no value) for *every* citizen to access as long as you fill out the right forms. But they don't tell anyone about these accounts. That's like me setting aside college funds for my kids and not telling them, and just letting the money sit there. (which in reality, I'd set aide college funds for my kids, not tell them about it, and the use the funds for a TV) And you can use this money (which comes from taxes) to pay for taxes? There's a divide by zero error in there somewhere.
 
2013-04-06 01:05:50 PM  
So what exactly makes them terrorists since they have not done anything violent to create fear in order to change political agendas? Having lots of paperwork and giving cops a hard time  was never considered terroristic before..

Also, a cop IS just a guy in a halloween costume, it is the peoples authority and belief in that costume that gives him any power. Cops and citizens seem to have forgotten that. Unless the cop is authorized and supported by the community he works in, he is just a gang member with different bling.
 
2013-04-06 01:06:04 PM  
They had me when I could keep Asian Hookers in my personal dungeon.
 
2013-04-06 01:06:26 PM  

pedrop357: Milo Minderbinder: That's my point. To be truly off the grid, you pretty much have to live like a cave man. The minute you start interacting with society, you have to play by society's rules.

I best most people wouldn't have any problem with that except that any interaction becomes a justification for 100% control.  He drives on public roads and does this, thus the government can regulate his cave and the food he grows in it, etc.


100% control? Isn't that an overstatement?
 
2013-04-06 01:10:00 PM  

Farking Canuck: It is very simple. Ask them if they are a citizen.

If they say yes then inform them that the must follow the laws of the land.

If they say no then lock them up until you can find a country to deport them to.


Can we do that with Mexicans as well...or is that not allowed since they're only "undocumented Democrats"
 
2013-04-06 01:12:15 PM  

Milo Minderbinder: pedrop357: Milo Minderbinder: That's my point. To be truly off the grid, you pretty much have to live like a cave man. The minute you start interacting with society, you have to play by society's rules.

I best most people wouldn't have any problem with that except that any interaction becomes a justification for 100% control.  He drives on public roads and does this, thus the government can regulate his cave and the food he grows in it, etc.

100% control? Isn't that an overstatement?


Good point.  I meant 100% not in the absolute sense, but 100% in the relative sense.

People (falsely) claim that one can live "off the grid" , BUT then they usually follow up by with some caveat that basically opens up the door for people to be treated as though they're completely "on" the grid the moment they have any interaction.
So, let's say we have our caveman living far away from anything, using no government services.  Every now and then he does have a desire to interact with people "in town", so he registers one vehicle, keeps up on licensing, etc.
That singular interaction is used as justification for the government to regulate everything, far beyond the vehicle, no differently than if the person lived in the city down the street from city hall.  Ie., now his cave has to have running water, meet building code, etc.

It's this all-or-nothing approach that seems to factor into some of these people taking the "nothing" approach.
 
2013-04-06 01:12:23 PM  
Furthermore FARK, the land of self hating pasty white lib coonts, seems to have a love/hate relationship with authoritarians..

If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...
 
2013-04-06 01:14:29 PM  

atomicmask: Furthermore FARK, the land of self hating pasty white lib coonts, seems to have a love/hate relationship with authoritarians..

If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...


Bingo.

Look at the degree to which they justify government power over people-hey you use the internet which the federal government had a hand in building 40 years ago, thus you have to tolerate the local government telling you your hand built cabin 20 miles from nowhere has to meet urban building standards.
 
2013-04-06 01:15:52 PM  
BigLuca:
I totally agree, that does suck.  You should write to your congressman and get your friends to do the same.  If he doesn't listen, you should find someone that does, get him to run for political office and then vote for him and get all your friends to vote for him as well.  If you can't get enough support, you should hone your arguments and try to convince anyone who will listen, then teach your children how to do this as well and concentrate on setting the foundation for change in the next generation.

What you shouldn't do is declare yourself a sovereignty citizen and start shooting cops.


the founders should have done the same thing as well instead of starting to shoot the kings soldiers
 
2013-04-06 01:21:08 PM  

pedrop357: Milo Minderbinder: pedrop357: Milo Minderbinder: That's my point. To be truly off the grid, you pretty much have to live like a cave man. The minute you start interacting with society, you have to play by society's rules.

I best most people wouldn't have any problem with that except that any interaction becomes a justification for 100% control.  He drives on public roads and does this, thus the government can regulate his cave and the food he grows in it, etc.

100% control? Isn't that an overstatement?

Good point.  I meant 100% not in the absolute sense, but 100% in the relative sense.

People (falsely) claim that one can live "off the grid" , BUT then they usually follow up by with some caveat that basically opens up the door for people to be treated as though they're completely "on" the grid the moment they have any interaction.
So, let's say we have our caveman living far away from anything, using no government services.  Every now and then he does have a desire to interact with people "in town", so he registers one vehicle, keeps up on licensing, etc.
That singular interaction is used as justification for the government to regulate everything, far beyond the vehicle, no differently than if the person lived in the city down the street from city hall.  Ie., now his cave has to have running water, meet building code, etc.

It's this all-or-nothing approach that seems to factor into some of these people taking the "nothing" approach.


Hmmmm. Some of my home is not up to code, but that has no real impact until I try and sell it, and in doing so, interact with society. Is someone really going around and telling our caveman what kind of cave he can have?
 
2013-04-06 01:21:21 PM  

pedrop357: cig-mkr: So, a person can't purchase a few hundred acres, construct shelter, cut wood for fire, hunt and fish, live off the land, and barter for goods without being a terrorist ? As long as they don't use publicly funded resources I say leave him alone.

No matter how far 'off the grid' they go, someone will always come up with a reason that imposes the government on them no differently then people in the middle of a city.

See, someone might get sick from the fish, might need medical treatment, might seek treatment in an emergency room, might not have enough to pay, and might not pay, thus the government is justified in enforcing building codes, zoning rules, etc. (little of which have to do the with concept of getting sick from bad fish)


The fish stocked by the government?
 
2013-04-06 01:21:26 PM  
How should police deal with "Sovereign Citizens"

www.trbimg.com

leisureguy.files.wordpress.com

The same way they deal with "Newspaper Delivery Ladies", apparently.
 
2013-04-06 01:23:01 PM  

bighairyguy: I'd like to propose the following procedure for law enforcement:

Officer: Your license and registration please.
Sovereign Citizen: I'm a sovereign citizen and you have no authority over me!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZE!
Sovereign Citizen: EEEEEEAAAAAYYYYYAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Officer: Your license and registration please.
Repeat as necessary.


Cool, I guess you are ok with the following situation too?

Officer: Papers citizen
Regular person: I was simply walking down the sidewalk, I did nothing wrong!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZZZZZE
Person: AAAHHHHHHH!
officer: papers now citizen!
repeat necessary
 
2013-04-06 01:25:40 PM  
Most "sovereigns" I know simultaneously refuse to acknowledge government, while happily applying for government disability handouts.

Look, police can be--and often ARE--douchebags. But claiming not to need license plates, a driver's license, etc. makes YOU just as much of a douchebag.
 
2013-04-06 01:26:07 PM  

atomicmask: So what exactly makes them terrorists since they have not done anything violent to create fear in order to change political agendas? Having lots of paperwork and giving cops a hard time  was never considered terroristic before..

Also, a cop IS just a guy in a halloween costume, it is the peoples authority and belief in that costume that gives him any power. Cops and citizens seem to have forgotten that. Unless the cop is authorized and supported by the community he works in, he is just a gang member with different bling.


gifrific.com

Anyone who doesn't is, buy the new ObamOrwellian definition, a "terrorist".
 
2013-04-06 01:27:48 PM  

atomicmask: Furthermore FARK, the land of self hating pasty white lib coonts, seems to have a love/hate relationship with authoritarians..

If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...


From your profile, and your comments, you do seem to have a bit of racial resentment.
 
2013-04-06 01:28:38 PM  
While I agree these " sovereign " citizens are wrong in their basic thinking, it's the police training that concerns me. At what point does a cop make the distinction between a law abiding citizen, standing on his or her 4th amendment rights, and a law breaking sovereign? Or will he?
 
2013-04-06 01:28:55 PM  
Doesn't matter to me. I couldn't claim Sovereign Citizenship if I wanted to. I was born on a military base which is U.S. property, so I am a U.S citizen whether I like it or not (which I do).
 
2013-04-06 01:29:18 PM  

BigLuca: maxalt: Since the 1930's the US has become more and more of a police state. Prior to the 1980's you did not have to carry id with you and if asked you name you could, and I did demand under what authority the police officer had in questioning me. I would try to egg the cops on, if I were walking and I saw a cop I would turn away from the cop and run like hell. They would ALWAYS chase me and demand to know why I was "running away?". I would just repeat over and over "Am I under arrest?" Once they answered "No" I would just walk away. Now the Police Court, I mean the Supreme Court has decided that you can be arrested for not having ID with you at all times and not producing the said ID upon the Police State demand. Yea America = Freedom.

I totally agree, that does suck.  You should write to your congressman and get your friends to do the same.  If he doesn't listen, you should find someone that does, get him to run for political office and then vote for him and get all your friends to vote for him as well.  If you can't get enough support, you should hone your arguments and try to convince anyone who will listen, then teach your children how to do this as well and concentrate on setting the foundation for change in the next generation.

What you shouldn't do is declare yourself a sovereignty citizen and start shooting cops.


I agree with the non violence approach, violence begets violence. But now almost every city in the US has a SWAT team. I live in a city of ≈125,000 people and we have TWO separate SWAT teams financed by a grant from the Federal government. What the frick do we need even one SWAT team. If a SWAT team shows up they are trained to use special weapons and tactics, so what do you think they will do? Having them around off times jacks up the situation and just having them there makes the situation more tense. The government is totally out of control.
 
2013-04-06 01:29:18 PM  
Heh.  This thread brought out the "libertarian" thread shiatting troll accounts pretty quick.  I see a few of the regular "liberals are gonna take mah guns" people here as well.
 
2013-04-06 01:30:14 PM  

sirgrim: pedrop357: cig-mkr: So, a person can't purchase a few hundred acres, construct shelter, cut wood for fire, hunt and fish, live off the land, and barter for goods without being a terrorist ? As long as they don't use publicly funded resources I say leave him alone.

No matter how far 'off the grid' they go, someone will always come up with a reason that imposes the government on them no differently then people in the middle of a city.

See, someone might get sick from the fish, might need medical treatment, might seek treatment in an emergency room, might not have enough to pay, and might not pay, thus the government is justified in enforcing building codes, zoning rules, etc. (little of which have to do the with concept of getting sick from bad fish)

The fish stocked by the government?


Yes, because all fish are stocked by the government.  Before the government came along, fish didn't exist in any rivers, lakes, streams, much less the vast oceans.  They never moved around either.  One of the reasons our Navy has so many carrier groups is to continuously replenish the supply of aquatic life in all seven oceans.

Let's say the government did stock it.  So he goes out and gets a fishing license just to play nice.  Now what?
 
2013-04-06 01:30:26 PM  
Oh, so I can make my own license plate now?
www.happynameday.com
 
2013-04-06 01:31:29 PM  

Corn_Fed: atomicmask: Furthermore FARK, the land of self hating pasty white lib coonts, seems to have a love/hate relationship with authoritarians..

If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...

From your profile, and your comments, you do seem to have a bit of racial resentment.


Racial resentment? Hardly, I just hate hypocrite politics and agendas. You twats bust at the seems just trying to run down cops when they abuse a minority, but when cops are abusing and treating whites like shiat you act like authoritarians are great. Either we all deserve the jack boots or none of us do, and I much rather have none of us deserving or getting them.
 
2013-04-06 01:33:20 PM  

pedrop357: lostcat: So they estimate there are 100,000 to 300,000 of these extremists who are happy to drive on roads and enjoy other infrastructure and services paid for by the rest of us (who understand that a social contract and taxes are important when you are a social creature living in a society)?

Guessing like at least half of them have Fark accounts.

Unless they're using untaxed fuel, tires, etc. they are paying for the roads and bridges.  If they're buying their power from the power company, they are paying for that infrastructure like everyone else.

There is no social contract.  No one has ever presented one to be signed or agreed upon, nor can a contract be so easily changed and one sided and still claim any semblance of legitimicay.  The concept of a social contract largely seems to exist to compel every person to do what they're told and pay what is demanded of them regardless of how far they try to stay away from 'society' as well as forbidding anyone to ever leave society.  It also seems to be used a rhetorical tool to advocate never reducing or restraining society's power over people.


There's one.
 
2013-04-06 01:34:21 PM  

sweet-daddy-2: While I agree these " sovereign " citizens are wrong in their basic thinking, it's the police training that concerns me. At what point does a cop make the distinction between a law abiding citizen, standing on his or her 4th amendment rights, and a law breaking sovereign? Or will he?


That's the point.

These people are 3rd and 4th rate troublemakers, but wow do they do a great job in stirring the left wing authoritarians up.

Groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center consider these guys on par with the 1950s KKK, and the ACLU whips up fury about right wing radical groups.

All the police have to do is slowly conflate standing up for one's rights with "sovereign citizen" and all the previously opposed lefty groups will be quiet when the police abuse someone who dares to talk about constitutional rights or, even worse, "spouts legal doctrine the way anti-government extremists do".  The officer, fearing for his safety...
 
2013-04-06 01:36:08 PM  

atomicmask: bighairyguy: I'd like to propose the following procedure for law enforcement:

Officer: Your license and registration please.
Sovereign Citizen: I'm a sovereign citizen and you have no authority over me!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZE!
Sovereign Citizen: EEEEEEAAAAAYYYYYAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Officer: Your license and registration please.
Repeat as necessary.

Cool, I guess you are ok with the following situation too?

Officer: Papers citizen
Regular person: I was simply walking down the sidewalk, I did nothing wrong!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZZZZZE
Person: AAAHHHHHHH!
officer: papers now citizen!
repeat necessary


And you honestly see this as something we have looming on the horizon?

There's two.
 
2013-04-06 01:36:09 PM  

atomicmask: Corn_Fed: atomicmask: Furthermore FARK, the land of self hating pasty white lib coonts, seems to have a love/hate relationship with authoritarians..

If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...

From your profile, and your comments, you do seem to have a bit of racial resentment.

Racial resentment? Hardly, I just hate hypocrite politics and agendas. You twats bust at the seems just trying to run down cops when they abuse a minority, but when cops are abusing and treating whites like shiat you act like authoritarians are great. Either we all deserve the jack boots or none of us do, and I much rather have none of us deserving or getting them.


Utter nonsense. There have been PLENTY of cases where power-hungry cops have overstepped their boundaries on EVERY race/ethnicity, and when its caught on video, we ALWAYS fault the pig cop here on Fark. This sovereign business is not like that. This is people inventing fantasy "rights" which don't exist, and then tying up the courts with bogus crap. They are conspiracy wackos.
 
2013-04-06 01:37:49 PM  

lostcat: atomicmask: bighairyguy: I'd like to propose the following procedure for law enforcement:

Officer: Your license and registration please.
Sovereign Citizen: I'm a sovereign citizen and you have no authority over me!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZE!
Sovereign Citizen: EEEEEEAAAAAYYYYYAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Officer: Your license and registration please.
Repeat as necessary.

Cool, I guess you are ok with the following situation too?

Officer: Papers citizen
Regular person: I was simply walking down the sidewalk, I did nothing wrong!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZZZZZE
Person: AAAHHHHHHH!
officer: papers now citizen!
repeat necessary

And you honestly see this as something we have looming on the horizon?

There's two.


Your mom's two.
 
2013-04-06 01:37:59 PM  

lostcat: atomicmask: bighairyguy: I'd like to propose the following procedure for law enforcement:

Officer: Your license and registration please.
Sovereign Citizen: I'm a sovereign citizen and you have no authority over me!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZE!
Sovereign Citizen: EEEEEEAAAAAYYYYYAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Officer: Your license and registration please.
Repeat as necessary.

Cool, I guess you are ok with the following situation too?

Officer: Papers citizen
Regular person: I was simply walking down the sidewalk, I did nothing wrong!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZZZZZE
Person: AAAHHHHHHH!
officer: papers now citizen!
repeat necessary

And you honestly see this as something we have looming on the horizon?

There's two.


Looming on the horizon? Its here...A cop can stop you while walking and demand to see identification if the thinks a crime has happened. no proof, no call ins, no victims, just "suspects" you may be a criminal.
 
2013-04-06 01:40:25 PM  

maxalt: BigLuca: maxalt: Since the 1930's the US has become more and more of a police state. Prior to the 1980's you did not have to carry id with you and if asked you name you could, and I did demand under what authority the police officer had in questioning me. I would try to egg the cops on, if I were walking and I saw a cop I would turn away from the cop and run like hell. They would ALWAYS chase me and demand to know why I was "running away?". I would just repeat over and over "Am I under arrest?" Once they answered "No" I would just walk away. Now the Police Court, I mean the Supreme Court has decided that you can be arrested for not having ID with you at all times and not producing the said ID upon the Police State demand. Yea America = Freedom.

I totally agree, that does suck.  You should write to your congressman and get your friends to do the same.  If he doesn't listen, you should find someone that does, get him to run for political office and then vote for him and get all your friends to vote for him as well.  If you can't get enough support, you should hone your arguments and try to convince anyone who will listen, then teach your children how to do this as well and concentrate on setting the foundation for change in the next generation.

What you shouldn't do is declare yourself a sovereignty citizen and start shooting cops.

I agree with the non violence approach, violence begets violence. But now almost every city in the US has a SWAT team. I live in a city of ≈125,000 people and we have TWO separate SWAT teams financed by a grant from the Federal government. What the frick do we need even one SWAT team. If a SWAT team shows up they are trained to use special weapons and tactics, so what do you think they will do? Having them around off times jacks up the situation and just having them there makes the situation more tense. The government is totally out of control.


Still waiting on that citation.
 
2013-04-06 01:40:32 PM  

Corn_Fed: atomicmask: Corn_Fed: atomicmask: Furthermore FARK, the land of self hating pasty white lib coonts, seems to have a love/hate relationship with authoritarians..

If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...

From your profile, and your comments, you do seem to have a bit of racial resentment.

Racial resentment? Hardly, I just hate hypocrite politics and agendas. You twats bust at the seems just trying to run down cops when they abuse a minority, but when cops are abusing and treating whites like shiat you act like authoritarians are great. Either we all deserve the jack boots or none of us do, and I much rather have none of us deserving or getting them.

Utter nonsense. There have been PLENTY of cases where power-hungry cops have overstepped their boundaries on EVERY race/ethnicity, and when its caught on video, we ALWAYS fault the pig cop here on Fark. This sovereign business is not like that. This is people inventing fantasy "rights" which don't exist, and then tying up the courts with bogus crap. They are conspiracy wackos.


Yes they are wackos, but again, can you name the crime of handing over large amounts of paperwork to a cop? What code is it? What law? Refusing to incriminate yourself USED to be apart of our rights, now it is suddenly terrorism? If the guy refuses to identify and has done something illegal, take his ass downtown. That is fine, however labeling everyone a terrorist because GOSH THEY DIDNT KISS MY ASS, BETTER SHOOT THEM! Is not good policy for anyone.
 
2013-04-06 01:40:55 PM  

atomicmask: Also, a cop IS just a guy in a halloween costume, it is the peoples authority and belief in that costume that gives him any power.


Perhaps you are forgetting the gun, baton, tazer, pepper spray....

Force is power.
 
2013-04-06 01:41:27 PM  

pedrop357: Ahh.  When the government acts the way it does to citizens in this country, "blanket of peace" is not the euphemism I would choose.

Just say "the government protects all of us, thus it owns us" and just farking be done with it


You know, you have opened my eyes.  I was going to go out have lunch with my family.  Now I see the futility of it.  I forgot about the roving bands of government agents with automatic weapons, demanding tribute at every corner before letting me proceed.  I was doing to answer the door, but I'm afraid it may be the local militia coming to press my under age son into combat for a the local drug lord.  I also just disconnected my water system and decided to dig my own well, because it obvious that is just another means of control.  I've also decided to let my sewage flow into the open street and down the storm drain, as that once it off my property, it is not longer my problem.

Thank you sir, for highlight that this is indeed an illegitimate government worthy of nothing but scorn.

Unless I need to sue them, then the courts are a-okay.

I just hope my rifles don't jam.  I may need them at the festival late tonight.  You know how unruly those get when the jack booted thugs come in and start busting everyone's head for no reason.
 
2013-04-06 01:41:47 PM  

atomicmask: If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...


Yes, I know. Its as if we 'libs' have things like a shared sense of humanity and a shared intolerance of assholes. Funny how that works.
 
2013-04-06 01:42:12 PM  

atomicmask: Furthermore FARK, the land of self hating pasty white lib coonts, seems to have a love/hate relationship with authoritarians..


You seem to be confusing Fark Politics tab types with real liberals.
 
2013-04-06 01:42:45 PM  

FarkinHostile: atomicmask: Also, a cop IS just a guy in a halloween costume, it is the peoples authority and belief in that costume that gives him any power.

Perhaps you are forgetting the gun, baton, tazer, pepper spray....

Force is power.


Not forgetting it, just telling the part that goes from criminal to cop. Its the people that give him authority to carry that and use it for anything other then self defense. We give him the right to be the aggressor in situations, thats it. Otherwise he is gang member with strange bling.
 
2013-04-06 01:43:27 PM  

cig-mkr: So, a person can't purchase a few hundred acres, construct shelter, cut wood for fire, hunt and fish, live off the land, and barter for goods without being a terrorist ? As long as they don't use publicly funded resources I say leave him alone.


Why not leave them alone anyways? If you buy gas, you're paying for roads. Ditto for hundreds of other things. Even if a person pays no income tax, he's paying taxes. Probably in excess of the services received.
 
2013-04-06 01:44:26 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: atomicmask: If they are abusing poor little brown people, they are evil jack booted thugs

If they are abusing white people, they are completely justified in the abuse and labeling...

Yes, I know. Its as if we 'libs' have things like a shared sense of humanity and a shared intolerance of assholes. Funny how that works.


Intolerance of assholes, until they are being assholes to people you dislike, then they are wonderful little enforcers of your will...

Funny how you squeel when the right wing does it, but when the law picks on the people you dislike its great! MARCH ON COMRADE! right?
Just saying its quite hypocritical of you.
 
2013-04-06 01:44:49 PM  

lostcat: atomicmask: bighairyguy: I'd like to propose the following procedure for law enforcement:

Officer: Your license and registration please.
Sovereign Citizen: I'm a sovereign citizen and you have no authority over me!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZE!
Sovereign Citizen: EEEEEEAAAAAYYYYYAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Officer: Your license and registration please.
Repeat as necessary.

Cool, I guess you are ok with the following situation too?

Officer: Papers citizen
Regular person: I was simply walking down the sidewalk, I did nothing wrong!
Officer: TAZZZZZZZZZZZE
Person: AAAHHHHHHH!
officer: papers now citizen!
repeat necessary

And you honestly see this as something we have looming on the horizon?

There's two.


You honestly don't understand the particulars and how there are a lot of similarities, do you?

Both average citizens and so-called "sovereign citizens" will both have their primary interactions with law enforcement officers over minor traffic things or 'suspicious person' stops.  People in both groups may choose to exercise their right to remain silent, not be searched, not show ID, etc. and the police already treat average people with quite a bit of contempt for exercising those rights.

NOW we have police groups whipping up hysteria about 3rd rate groups who have occasionally used violence, and nearly always exercise their right to remain silent, not be searched, etc.

The result is that the line blurs between standing up for one's rights and being one of those violent sovereign whatevers.  The police will get a nice big pass from all he lefty "civil rights" groups as long as they claim that they thought they were dealing with "one of those anti-government people that kills cops."

If you don't see the danger in that, then you're part of the problem.
 
2013-04-06 01:46:36 PM  

pedrop357: There is no social contract.  No one has ever presented one to be signed or agreed upon, nor can a contract be so easily changed and one sided and still claim any semblance of legitimicay.  The concept of a social contract largely seems to exist to compel every person to do what they're told and pay what is demanded of them regardless of how far they try to stay away from 'society' as well as forbidding anyone to ever leave society.  It also seems to be used a rhetorical tool to advocate never reducing or restraining society's power over people.


Behold the Spoiled American Sociopath in all his mighty self-gloried supremacy.

What's the over/under on how long he lasts in Somalia or rural Afghanistan? 48 hours?
 
2013-04-06 01:47:58 PM  
 
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