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(Bleeding Cool)   Steven Moffat reveals what would have happened if David Tennant had stayed on for season 5 of Doctor Who. Hint: Doctor Teeth vs. the Red Menace   (bleedingcool.com) divider line 83
    More: Interesting, Doctor Who, Steven Moffat, Eleventh Doctor, Tenth Doctor  
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4642 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Apr 2013 at 11:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-06 11:11:45 AM
No good. That would mean that Amy would/could be set up as the rebound girl.
 
2013-04-06 11:40:43 AM
I always like the continuation of a companion through regenerations.

This could have been interesting.
 
2013-04-06 11:48:13 AM

ElectricPeterTork: I always like the continuation of a companion through regenerations.

This could have been interesting.


Even Mary Sue Tyler?
 
2013-04-06 11:54:39 AM

twat_waffle: ElectricPeterTork: I always like the continuation of a companion through regenerations.

This could have been interesting.

Even Mary Sue Tyler?


I think you got Mary Sue's last name wrong.

You meant "Pond".
 
2013-04-06 12:16:44 PM
Why not both? I mentioned Rose in particular because she was with two  Doctors.
 
2013-04-06 12:18:25 PM

FirstNationalBastard: I think you got Mary Sue's last name wrong.

You meant "Pond".


You must be trolling.
 
2013-04-06 12:26:58 PM

Baron Harkonnen: FirstNationalBastard: I think you got Mary Sue's last name wrong.

You meant "Pond".

You must be trolling.


Or he genuinely doesn't like Amy. It's possible, ya know.
 
2013-04-06 12:30:22 PM
What would the tenth doctor have eaten at little Amelia's house?

"You're Scottish, fry something."
 
2013-04-06 12:53:26 PM
Dr Teeth?

www.muppetcentral.com
 
2013-04-06 01:02:04 PM

NotARocketScientist: Dr Teeth?

[www.muppetcentral.com image 140x171]


Don't forget his companion...

images4.wikia.nocookie.net


Anyway...

PizzaJedi81: Baron Harkonnen: FirstNationalBastard: I think you got Mary Sue's last name wrong.

You meant "Pond".

You must be trolling.

Or he genuinely doesn't like Amy. It's possible, ya know.


In my opinion, "ZOMG REDHEAD POST MOAR PICS!!!11112ELEVENTY" let Moffat and crew get away with making the companion a really bad character that no one would have let RTD get away with when it was Rose or Donna.

I mean, people still shiat about the one Rose intro, or the fact that she came back for a couple of episodes in season 4, after her story should have been over. But the Amy Pond intro, and the first 5 episodes of season 7? No complaints, though those things were all much worse than what was done with Rose.

And while Rose might have wanted timelord cock, her story didn't shuffle the Doctor into being a background character in his own show. Every episode couldn't be boiled down to The Doctor's motivation for everything being WHERE'S ROSE FIND ROSE LOVE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE the way it was in the first two Matt Smith seasons.

One again, just an opinion, and before anyone tells me to quit watching, The redhead is gone, so there are no problems at this time. The new companion seems interesting so far.
 
2013-04-06 01:18:22 PM
I like the episodes where he saves something that isn't Cardiff.
 
2013-04-06 01:19:20 PM

NotARocketScientist: Dr Teeth?

[www.muppetcentral.com image 140x171]


FirstNationalBastard: NotARocketScientist: Dr Teeth?

[www.muppetcentral.com image 140x171]

Don't forget his companion...

[images4.wikia.nocookie.net image 400x436]


Can you picture that?
 
2013-04-06 01:20:50 PM

FirstNationalBastard: In my opinion, "ZOMG REDHEAD POST MOAR PICS!!!11112ELEVENTY" let Moffat and crew get away with making the companion a really bad character that no one would have let RTD get away with when it was Rose or Donna.

I mean, people still shiat about the one Rose intro, or the fact that she came back for a couple of episodes in season 4, after her story should have been over. But the Amy Pond intro, and the first 5 episodes of season 7? No complaints, though those things were all much worse than what was done with Rose.

And while Rose might have wanted timelord cock, her story didn't shuffle the Doctor into being a background character in his own show. Every episode couldn't be boiled down to The Doctor's motivation for everything being WHERE'S ROSE FIND ROSE LOVE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE the way it was in the first two Matt Smith seasons.

One again, just an opinion, and before anyone tells me to quit watching, The redhead is gone, so there are no problems at this time. The new companion seems interesting so far.


We disagree.  I thought Rose was annoying as shiat, and the 'I have to leave you in a parallel dimension but I l-' part was just stupid. But it's only a tv show we are disagreeing over, so it really doesn't matter.

At least Amy brought Rory with her.
 
2013-04-06 01:21:55 PM
Zarquon's Flat Tire:
At least Amy brought Rory with her.

Well, we can all agree on that.
 
2013-04-06 01:22:47 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: At least Amy brought Rory with her.


And once she did, she developed into something better than she was introduced as.
 
2013-04-06 01:23:44 PM

FirstNationalBastard: But the Amy Pond intr


I am so very glad I never saw the Amy Pond intro.

FirstNationalBastard: to The Doctor's motivation for everything being WHERE'S ROSE FIND ROSE LOVE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE


Really? Because my wife stopped watching in the Tennant era because every episode was WHERE'S ROSE FIND ROSE LOVE ROSEROSEROSE. Specifically, she stopped at "The Satan Pit", which was also a painfully  stupid episode. The reuse of Sutekh's voice actor was a nice callback, and the Ood looked cool, which were about the only positive things in that two-parter.

The idea that the companion is actually the protagonist of the show isn't new, and it's been a thread that's been present in the entirety of NuWho (and it goes back well before that). It makes sense: the Doctor can't really change  much, short of a regeneration. His character arc has to be fairly flat. The companion, on the other hand, not only can change, but  should. Regardless of the companion's prior experience, travels with the Doctor are always an adventure unlike anything in their life up to this point. This has to have a massive impact on them.

The companion is more than an insert for the audience to identify with, or an excuse to have the Doctor explain things to the audience. Companions are the characters that can change and develop as the story progresses.

The change we've had in NuWho compared to older Doctor Who is simply that it's far more character focused. In OldWho, even the companions didn't tend to get that much of an arc- it was the natives which our adventurers encounter which were changed by the experience. We had a few- like Turlough and especially Ace (who is obviously the model for all of the new companions).

Audiences simply aren't as interested in rubber mask monsters and cheap scares.
 
2013-04-06 01:26:55 PM

t3knomanser: Audiences simply aren't as interested in rubber mask monsters and cheap scares.


Pfft, says you.
 
2013-04-06 01:28:00 PM

PizzaJedi81: t3knomanser: Audiences simply aren't as interested in rubber mask monsters and cheap scares.

Pfft, says you.


No, now they need movie poster ideas and CGI monsters.
 
2013-04-06 01:35:50 PM

t3knomanser: "The Satan Pit", which was also a painfully stupid episode.


Aww, I liked that one. I waffle between being indifferent to Rose and hating her, but there were some good episodes in there, and I had regarded that two parter as one of them.
 
2013-04-06 01:37:35 PM

cptjeff: t3knomanser: "The Satan Pit", which was also a painfully stupid episode.

Aww, I liked that one. I waffle between being indifferent to Rose and hating her, but there were some good episodes in there, and I had regarded that two parter as one of them.


Also: Better than Fear Her.
 
2013-04-06 01:39:30 PM
When I think of Rose, I automatically think of the first season with Eccleston, not the Tennant season.

Maybe that's why I don't see the same problems with Rose many others do.
 
2013-04-06 01:41:21 PM

FirstNationalBastard: When I think of Rose, I automatically think of the first season with Eccleston, not the Tennant season.

Maybe that's why I don't see the same problems with Rose many others do.


Same here. I mean, you could see the basis of "Oh, I love the Doctor so!" But without the Doctor really reciprocating. He obviously cared for her, and sacrificed himself to save her, in the end, but it was handled incredibly well.
 
2013-04-06 01:45:40 PM

PizzaJedi81: cptjeff: t3knomanser: "The Satan Pit", which was also a painfully stupid episode.

Aww, I liked that one. I waffle between being indifferent to Rose and hating her, but there were some good episodes in there, and I had regarded that two parter as one of them.

Also: Better than Fear Her.


I was aiming for a higher bar than that.
 
2013-04-06 01:47:08 PM

cptjeff: and I had regarded that two parter as one of them.


It was done better in  The Pyramids of Mars, which also had fewer annoying sidekicks in the story.
 
2013-04-06 01:58:14 PM

FirstNationalBastard: And while Rose might have wanted timelord cock, her story didn't shuffle the Doctor into being a background character in his own show. Every episode couldn't be boiled down to The Doctor's motivation for everything being WHERE'S ROSE FIND ROSE LOVE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE the way it was in the first two Matt Smith seasons.


Amy was at the center of two huge mysteries the Doctor was interested in (The Crack and River Song). OF COURSE, she is going to be important to the story. Now, that doesn't mean the "Amy Pond Show" BBC America intro was in any way justified, but story-wise I actually think that it is good that Moffat is giving his companions an actual reason for the Doctor to be interested in having them around.

Also, keep in mind that from the very beginning, Doctor Who was more the story of Ian and Barbara, and the Doctor in some ways a background character that did asshole things to move the story forward like intentionally breaking the TARDIS so he could check out the Dalek city.
 
2013-04-06 02:33:05 PM
The BBC America intro was fine.  It was made to provide context for a new audience.

It was no different than the Brady Bunch intro.
 
2013-04-06 02:53:48 PM

PizzaJedi81: cptjeff: t3knomanser: "The Satan Pit", which was also a painfully stupid episode.

Aww, I liked that one. I waffle between being indifferent to Rose and hating her, but there were some good episodes in there, and I had regarded that two parter as one of them.

Also: Better than Fear Her.


So was that time I sat on my left testicle.
 
2013-04-06 02:57:46 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: PizzaJedi81: cptjeff: t3knomanser: "The Satan Pit", which was also a painfully stupid episode.

Aww, I liked that one. I waffle between being indifferent to Rose and hating her, but there were some good episodes in there, and I had regarded that two parter as one of them.

Also: Better than Fear Her.

So was that time I sat on my left testicle.


Speaking of which, did you ever get rid of that stupid slatted chair, or did you just get out of the habit of sitting on it in the nude?
 
2013-04-06 02:58:34 PM
I think my main problem with Moffat companions vs. RTD companions is that the Moffat companions feel more like plot devices than people.  They have no identity outside the Doctor.  Who was Amy before she got involved with the Doctor?  We get almost zero look at this.  Whereas the RTD companions each had nearly half an episode apiece devoted to their pre-Doctor lives, where we got to see them at their jobs, interacting with their families, and just getting to know them as a person.  We never got this with Amy, and only got a tiny smidgen of it with Clara.

The theme of the RTD companions seemed to be "this could be you", by portraying them as completely normal people who just happened to express a good amount of initiative when they got tangled up in whatever mess the Doctor happened to be involved with, and the Doctor in turn wanted to give them something in return for their help.  The Moffat companions so far have both been presented as the "mostest speshul girl in the universe", whom the Doctor is interested in not because of who they are as a person or what they've done, but because of the timey-wimey circumstances surrounding them.

Plus, with the way he initially approached Donna after his ordeal with Martha, you'd think that any potential companion who even attempted to flirt with him would be punted to the curb faster than a weeping angel stalking Helen Keller.
 
2013-04-06 03:07:59 PM

Fast Moon: I think my main problem with Moffat companions vs. RTD companions is that the Moffat companions feel more like plot devices than people.  They have no identity outside the Doctor.  Who was Amy before she got involved with the Doctor?  We get almost zero look at this.  Whereas the RTD companions each had nearly half an episode apiece devoted to their pre-Doctor lives, where we got to see them at their jobs, interacting with their families, and just getting to know them as a person.  We never got this with Amy, and only got a tiny smidgen of it with Clara.


Well, to be fair, Amy was  six when she met the Doctor, so you can't really blame her for not having developed much of an identity prior to that.
 
2013-04-06 03:13:03 PM

Fast Moon: and only got a tiny smidgen of it with Clara.


I would argue the opposite of this with Clara, simply because a good portion of the Christmas episode was of her life as both a Governess / Barmaid, and a fair bit of her being a computer-inept babysitter in last weeks episode.

I will grant you though, that her intro has been more broken into pieces than some past companions; over effectively 3 episodes opposed to say the first 3/4ths of an individual episode.

whom the Doctor is interested in not because of who they are as a person or what they've done, but because of the timey-wimey circumstances surrounding them.

And this I believe, is where we differ as Who fans.  To me that is the perfect reason why the Doctor would be interested in having them around, because they represent a puzzle or some such.  Think about it, the man is very nearly a thousand years old; and clearly has no interest (usually) in some random off the street.  His very nature is to seek out the strange and interesting and "solve" them.  Now I'm not saying this has always resulted in good episodes and companions but I can certainly believe a curiosity being his primary drive behind snagging a new companion.
 
2013-04-06 03:15:57 PM

FirstNationalBastard: I mean, people still shiat about the one Rose intro, or the fact that she came back for a couple of episodes in season 4, after her story should have been over. But the Amy Pond intro, and the first 5 episodes of season 7? No complaints, though those things were all much worse than what was done with Rose.


What in the hell are you talking about?  Every Doctor Who thread during the Pond Era had at least one "OMFG WHY DO THEY KEEP DOING THIS AMY POND SHOW SHIAT I HATE HER SHE'S THE WORST I THOUGHT THIS WAS DOCTOR WHO" post.  Even now that she's gone, we can't have a single thread without someone complaining about  the "Red Menace".
 
2013-04-06 03:25:22 PM

Shan: Zarquon's Flat Tire: PizzaJedi81: cptjeff: t3knomanser: "The Satan Pit", which was also a painfully stupid episode.

Aww, I liked that one. I waffle between being indifferent to Rose and hating her, but there were some good episodes in there, and I had regarded that two parter as one of them.

Also: Better than Fear Her.

So was that time I sat on my left testicle.

Speaking of which, did you ever get rid of that stupid slatted chair, or did you just get out of the habit of sitting on it in the nude?


I just glued a screen under it, problem solved.
 
2013-04-06 03:29:15 PM

Shan: To me that is the perfect reason why the Doctor would be interested in having them around, because they represent a puzzle or some such.


Which the companion-as-puzzle started, not in NuWho, but with Ace. The Doctor was overtly grooming Ace to meet his own ends. He was trying to "solve" her.
 
2013-04-06 03:43:57 PM
Also, as is par for the course, this episode was a bit of a mess.
 
2013-04-06 04:25:36 PM
Shan:To me that is the perfect reason why the Doctor would be interested in having them around, because they represent a puzzle or some such.  Think about it, the man is very nearly a thousand years old; and clearly has no interest (usually) in some random off the street.  His very nature is to seek out the strange and interesting and "solve" them.  Now I'm not saying this has always resulted in good episodes and companions but I can certainly believe a curiosity being his primary drive behind snagging a new companion.

The problem with that, though, is that it leaves the entire main cast inaccessible.  The Doctor by nature is supposed to be an alien mystery and not a character the audience can relate to.  Therefore, it generally falls to the companion to supply the "everyman" role to act as the conduit by which the audience immerses themselves in the story.  But if the companion is made too inaccessible by means of being a complicated space-time anomaly rather than a person, then we're just watching something rather than experiencing it, because it doesn't leave us any avenues through which we can relate with what's going on.  That's why Rory was a much-needed addition to the TARDIS crew.
 
2013-04-06 04:34:59 PM

Fast Moon: The problem with that, though, is that it leaves the entire main cast inaccessible.  The Doctor by nature is supposed to be an alien mystery and not a character the audience can relate to.  Therefore, it generally falls to the companion to supply the "everyman" role to act as the conduit by which the audience immerses themselves in the story.  But if the companion is made too inaccessible by means of being a complicated space-time anomaly rather than a person, then we're just watching something rather than experiencing it, because it doesn't leave us any avenues through which we can relate with what's going on.  That's why Rory was a much-needed addition to the TARDIS crew.


The show is 50 farking years old, so you kind of have to change up the formula a bit. Besides, some of the best Who companions have been anything but the "everyman/woman". Romana, K-9, The Brig,  Turlough.
 
2013-04-06 05:29:33 PM

Mad_Radhu: Besides, some of the best Who companions have been anything but the "everyman/woman"


The worst have been the "everyman" types. Ian and Barbara were actually pretty dull. Teegan spent most of her time wishing she wasn't there. Peri. Hell, even Mel was pretty much a "regular Joann", if a bit on the Adric-side of "bright".

Ace, on the other hand, was already experienced at traveling in space and was the sort of girl who brewed explosives for fun. Zoe was a genius from the future. Jamie was a Highlander from the past.

The logic that "for regular people to like it, we need to have regular people in it" is the same sort of clumsy pandering that leads to "if we want kids to like it, we need to have a kid in it". That path eventually leads to  The Phantom Menace.

Characters should be relatable, but they  shouldn't be normal. They should be unusual, they should be interesting, they should be more complex and interesting than an audience insert. They should be someone the audience wishes they could be, not just a regular person doing things the audience wishes they could do.

The biggest issue I had with Rose was that there really was no reason for the Doctor to cart her around. She brought nothing to the table, aside from  once, in "Dalek", where she talked him down. Beyond that, she mostly existed to get rescued.
 
2013-04-06 05:43:17 PM

t3knomanser: Characters should be relatable, but they  shouldn't be normal. They should be unusual, they should be interesting, they should be more complex and interesting than an audience insert. They should be someone the audience wishes they could be, not just a regular person doing things the audience wishes they could do.


Exactly. How many "everyman" characters were there in Star Wars? Even the farmboy from BFE was the son of a legendary Jedi in that story, yet people had no problems being able to get attached to the characters.

Plus, I forgot Zoe, who could kill a computer with her brain, and regularly talked down to the Second Doctor. She sure as hell wasn't everywoman, but she was an awesome companion. I think people get a little too wrapped up in what they THINK Doctor Who should be and forget that the magic of the show is that it can reinvent itself whenever it wants, and that is what has keep it going for so long.
 
2013-04-06 05:52:51 PM

Mad_Radhu: She sure as hell wasn't everywoman, but she was an awesome companion.


One of my favorites, and not just because of the catsuit. She was the first companion who could rival the Doctor intellectually.

One of the problems you run into with Doctor Who is that the Doctor is an ancient, telepathic genius who commands time and space while wielding a magic wand that can do whatever the scriptwriters need it to. While a companion can be a useful storytelling mechanic, why is the companion even there, if the Doctor can easily solve every conflict? You need companions who are capable in ways the Doctor cannot be, and that means you need companions who are  not just everyday folk.

Of the NuWho companions, the only "normal folk" that was worth anything was Donna, and that's because she  could go toe to toe with the Doctor on the humanly aspects of the story. She had a moral compass and a will to use it that exceeded his own.

And for all that people accuse Amy of being "the most speschul girl", she was just normal folk. She was a small town girl, living in her lonely world... sorry. But seriously, when we meet her as an adult, the most interesting thing about her is that she's a "Kissogram" girl with a little sass. At no point is her first season  ever about her- at best, it's about her connection to the Crack. In the end, her level of cosmic importance matches Rose's "Bad Wolf" moment- it's essentially the same exact thing (although, I feel, better executed).

It was her second season where, after a series of incredible adventures, she's lost her "everywoman" status and the plots focused on her much more.

//River Song is the annoying Mary Sue, not Amy.
 
2013-04-06 06:16:38 PM
t3knomanser
The biggest issue I had with Rose was that there really was no reason for the Doctor to cart her around. [..]
she mostly existed to get rescued.


That's the impression that Jo Grant left with me.
It feels to me like most of the stories with her would only have been half as long without the 2-3 seemingly inevitable "I have to do as he says. He's got Jo." parts in the middle of each episode.
I mean, okay, having to rescue companions isn't unusual, but while he was stuck on Earth (i.e. he wasn't traveling around with her), there was just no reason for the Doctor to drag her along everywhere and he seemed rather foolish for not learning from her being used as a hostage every single time.
Well, no reason besides that the Doctor needs someone to ask questions and whom he can timelordsplain things to for the benefit of the audience.
 
2013-04-06 06:32:00 PM

t3knomanser: //River Song is the annoying Mary Sue, not Amy.


blog.angelatung.com

Technically, she really isn't a Mary Sue unless Moffatt is secretly a cross-dresser that wants to marry the Doctor. A Mary Sue character is a fanfic surrogate for the author. River can get a little abrasive at times, but being practically a Time Lord doesn't make her abilities and talents that much of a stretch compared to a normal human. "Mary Sue" is just one of those words that is overused and stretched way beyond its original meaning, much like "Deux Ex" (like when people reference a Cheokov's Gun as a Deus Ex).
 
2013-04-06 06:36:31 PM

Mad_Radhu: A Mary Sue character is a fanfic surrogate for the author.


More important, a Mary Sue is a character that's added to the story and  everyoneloves her, she's the best, and everything basically goes her way. And yes, it's the author's wish fulfillment. I'm loser on the self-insert, myself, because I've seen so many cases of authors having a character that they think is the bees knees, but actually sucks.

Regardless, River is further out on the Mary Sue axis than Amy was, which is what I was actually trying to communicate.
 
2013-04-06 06:51:50 PM
cdn.bleedingcool.net

Your hair...

Your hair is a penis.
 
2013-04-06 07:09:39 PM

FirstNationalBastard: twat_waffle: ElectricPeterTork: I always like the continuation of a companion through regenerations.

This could have been interesting.

Even Mary Sue Tyler?

I think you got Mary Sue's last name wrong.

You meant "Pond".


Neither of you even seem to know what a Mary Sue is, this is just pathetic.
 
2013-04-06 07:12:38 PM
In the ongoing Amy versus Rose debate, I have to say that I found them both equally annoying.  I will say, though, that Rose at least served somewhat of a purpose in the episodes, and, at times, harkened back to Sarah Jane: she and the Doctor could rely on one another to make the right decisions at the right time.  I could have done without all of the googly-eyed romance.

Amy, though, was just irritating.  She swung from being horrified to childlike to flippant at the weirdest times, and, after the first few episodes, I thought Moffat was trying to create our first verifiable mentally ill companion.  Then I realized that she was there to be cute and to be a reason for the plots (the most important girl in the universe ... AGAIN).  When she fulfilled that purpose, she really didn't do much else in the episodes other than scream or offer a stupid one-liner.  It is telling that a wide number of Who fans were pleased to see her go, but sorry to see Rory leave.  Rory was a real character with real emotions and a real history.  Amy was just the cute chick in the fashionable wear who was awful in almost any context.
 
2013-04-06 07:14:31 PM

Mad_Radhu: t3knomanser: //River Song is the annoying Mary Sue, not Amy.

[blog.angelatung.com image 330x282]

Technically, she really isn't a Mary Sue unless Moffatt is secretly a cross-dresser that wants to marry the Doctor. A Mary Sue character is a fanfic surrogate for the author. River can get a little abrasive at times, but being practically a Time Lord doesn't make her abilities and talents that much of a stretch compared to a normal human. "Mary Sue" is just one of those words that is overused and stretched way beyond its original meaning, much like "Deux Ex" (like when people reference a Cheokov's Gun as a Deus Ex).


Like everything Moffat, he took a great one-off concept and drove it straight into the ground.

\see also Weeping Angels
 
2013-04-06 07:16:43 PM
Also, are some of you honestly using the stupid BBCAmerica Amy intro as an actual reason to hate the character?  That's like hating a movie because a studio released a really bad trailer, its just dumb marketing.
 
2013-04-06 07:23:02 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Rory was a real character with real emotions and a real history


More important, Rory had an actual character arc. He  really developed. He started as a nebbishly Arthur Dent character and evolved into a supreme badass. It did create situations where you had to wonder: "Why the hell is he still with Amy?" He definitely was far more committed to the relationship than she was.

While I think much of the hate towards Amy is misplaced, her character was  all over the place. I mean, seriously, she just took on whatever personality traits worked the best for her at the time.

whizbangthedirtfarmer: the most important girl in the universe ... AGAIN


This though, I really don't see. Amy wasn't the most important girl in the universe excepting her "Bad Wolf" moment at the end of her first series. At best, you've got the one exchange where the Doctor tells her that the most important thing in the universe is getting her sorted- not that  she's important, that solving the problem which she represents is important.

Her second series it gets a little bit stronger, where a plan is put in place to kidnap her unborn daughter and raise it and train it to kill the Doctor. Which is actually a completely insane plan. Like... why? How? If killing the Doctor is so important, there must be an approach that doesn't involve kidnapping his companion and stealing her baby so that you can steal the baby and raise it into a perfect assassin who can kill the Doctor. Oh, but River's got some time stuff, from being conceived in the TARDIS. Big whup. A Dalek blaster would end the Doctor nearly as quickly. Oh, he can regenerate? SHOOT HIM AGAIN.

*pantpantpant*

I've actually enjoyed the Moffat era overall, and adore Smith's Doctor, but it hasn't exactly been clever, lately.
 
2013-04-06 07:27:57 PM
whizbangthedirtfarmer:Amy, though, was just irritating.  She swung from being horrified to childlike to flippant at the weirdest times, and, after the first few episodes, I thought Moffat was trying to create our first verifiable mentally ill companion.  Then I realized that she was there to be cute and to be a reason for the plots (the most important girl in the universe ... AGAIN).  When she fulfilled that purpose, she really didn't do much else in the episodes other than scream or offer a stupid one-liner.  It is telling that a wide number of Who fans were pleased to see her go, but sorry to see Rory leave.  Rory was a real character with real emotions and a real history.  Amy was just the cute chick in the fashionable wear who was awful in almost any context.

I'd just like to point out that The Girl Who Waited was far and away the best episode that focused on Amy, and I would say the best performance of any companion since the restart.
 
2013-04-06 07:31:30 PM

t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Rory was a real character with real emotions and a real history

More important, Rory had an actual character arc. He  really developed. He started as a nebbishly Arthur Dent character and evolved into a supreme badass. It did create situations where you had to wonder: "Why the hell is he still with Amy?" He definitely was far more committed to the relationship than she was.

While I think much of the hate towards Amy is misplaced, her character was  all over the place. I mean, seriously, she just took on whatever personality traits worked the best for her at the time.

whizbangthedirtfarmer: the most important girl in the universe ... AGAIN

This though, I really don't see. Amy wasn't the most important girl in the universe excepting her "Bad Wolf" moment at the end of her first series. At best, you've got the one exchange where the Doctor tells her that the most important thing in the universe is getting her sorted- not that  she's important, that solving the problem which she represents is important.

Her second series it gets a little bit stronger, where a plan is put in place to kidnap her unborn daughter and raise it and train it to kill the Doctor. Which is actually a completely insane plan. Like... why? How? If killing the Doctor is so important, there must be an approach that doesn't involve kidnapping his companion and stealing her baby so that you can steal the baby and raise it into a perfect assassin who can kill the Doctor. Oh, but River's got some time stuff, from being conceived in the TARDIS. Big whup. A Dalek blaster would end the Doctor nearly as quickly. Oh, he can regenerate? SHOOT HIM AGAIN.

*pantpantpant*

I've actually enjoyed the Moffat era overall, and adore Smith's Doctor, but it hasn't exactly been clever, lately.


You are particularly correct about the second series with Amy, but the whole crack in the universe thing was centered around her ... remember the Doctor asking over and over again: why are you so special, Amy Pond? in a clip destined for numerous adverts.  And yes, the second season's story arc was farking terrible.  So, yeah, this cult of religious zealots wants to kill the Doctor, so we're going to kidnap his companion's baby (assuming, of course, that we knew she was preggers in the first place), raise her inside of an astronaut suit for a bit, lost track of her, find her again, put her underwater, lure the Doctor to the lake, and then have her shoot him.  With a plan like that, what could go wrong?

Like Sherlock, Moffat chose style over substance, and the entire season was a complete pain in the ass.

I haven't liked Moffat much at all, save for an episode here and there, and that's a shame, because Matt Smith is working his ass off and is an excellent Doctor.  But he had Amy, and now it looks like we're doing the same Most Important Girl in the Universe thing with Clara (though I'm sure there will be another nonsensical twist in there).

And you're also right about Rory: he grew and expanded to the point where, in The Asylum of the Daleks, when we had their stupid divorce (a more contrived plot device I cannot think of), I initially thought: hell yes!  Go Rory!  Dump the girl with the thirteen-year-old's mentality!  Then they went the whole "I can't get pregnant" thing and ended up slapping my forehead.
 
2013-04-06 07:31:57 PM

Valacirca: Also, are some of you honestly using the stupid BBCAmerica Amy intro as an actual reason to hate the character?  That's like hating a movie because a studio released a really bad trailer, its just dumb marketing.




Having to see the BBC America intro a few times, I can understand the hate.
Sad that American viewers had to put up with that.
On another note; tonight's episode was meh, although the singing was pleasant.
Hopefully the stories get better soon.
 
2013-04-06 07:34:44 PM

WippitGuud: whizbangthedirtfarmer:Amy, though, was just irritating.  She swung from being horrified to childlike to flippant at the weirdest times, and, after the first few episodes, I thought Moffat was trying to create our first verifiable mentally ill companion.  Then I realized that she was there to be cute and to be a reason for the plots (the most important girl in the universe ... AGAIN).  When she fulfilled that purpose, she really didn't do much else in the episodes other than scream or offer a stupid one-liner.  It is telling that a wide number of Who fans were pleased to see her go, but sorry to see Rory leave.  Rory was a real character with real emotions and a real history.  Amy was just the cute chick in the fashionable wear who was awful in almost any context.

I'd just like to point out that The Girl Who Waited was far and away the best episode that focused on Amy, and I would say the best performance of any companion since the restart.


I gave that episode a gigantic "meh."  It was okay, save for some contrived plotting, but Karen Gillian is not a terribly good actress, and she just wasn't convincing to me.  Matt Smith and Rory carried that episode, in much the way Tennant carried that little girl in Fear Her ... she was miserable when he wasn't there, and great when he was.  That's how good of an actor Arthur Darvill is: he took Karen Gillian and convinced people she was a good actress.

And I would say almost any later episode with Donna Noble in it has been the best nuWho companion episode.
 
2013-04-06 07:50:05 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Matt Smith and Rory carried that episode


When Rory had to make his choice- that was honestly heartbreaking.

whizbangthedirtfarmer: but the whole crack in the universe thing was centered around her


Not really. The crack had nothing to do with her, she was just in the wrong place, a place where the crack was intruding on reality. Up until the "Bad Wolf" moment wherein she recreated the universe, she was nothing more than someone in the wrong place at the wrong time.

whizbangthedirtfarmer: now it looks like we're doing the same Most Important Girl in the Universe thing with Clara


They do have some good chemistry, though. Clara is very likable. And the Doctor's attachment at least makes more sense- he has a puzzle that he  must figure out.
 
2013-04-06 08:07:24 PM
whizbangthedirtfarmer:
And I would say almost any later episode with Donna Noble in it has been the best nuWho companion episode.

Out of curiosity, were you already familiar with Catherine Tate before you saw her on DW?  If so, did you like her before?
 
2013-04-06 08:08:01 PM
Doctor Who is so full of what if's.  I believe it is because they move fast.

What if Derek Jacobi had gotten a couple of episodes as the Master before regenerating, what if the year of Martha walking the earth had taken more than one episode.  What if Turn left had been half a season of references and clues to things being not right?  What if we had gotten a season of Jack tagging along with the Doctor and Rose?  What if they were really really patient, and strung the Doctor;s encounters with River out over more than two incarnations of the doctor, oh so much that they seem to rush past.  Biggest for me was the Raknos (sp).  They were there at the formation of the earth, and hid for centuries, bleeding into our subconscious, our nightmares since the  dawn of time, and yet they get dealt with in one episode, when clearly this would have made an amazing season long arch.

  I do like Moffats use of time, though, even in this rough concept.  Amy meets Ten at the end, then he comes back before that, a but of a mirroring of his relationship with River.

Still tidbits of might have been's are fun what ifs.  Except for the people who utterly hate the show but continue to watch (and evidently post).
 
2013-04-06 08:54:53 PM

FirstNationalBastard: NotARocketScientist: Dr Teeth?

[www.muppetcentral.com image 140x171]

Don't forget his companion...


shirtoid.com
 
2013-04-06 09:29:48 PM

glass_ibis: whizbangthedirtfarmer:
And I would say almost any later episode with Donna Noble in it has been the best nuWho companion episode.

Out of curiosity, were you already familiar with Catherine Tate before you saw her on DW?  If so, did you like her before?


Not sure if you're fishing, but it depends on your definition of "familiar."  I had seen her on several episodes of the Catherine Tate show, and I found her to be talented and funny, though the show suffered from the usual issues of sketch comedy -- at some point in time, the material will feel forced.
 
2013-04-06 09:33:54 PM

hideous: Doctor Who is so full of what if's.  I believe it is because they move fast.

What if Derek Jacobi had gotten a couple of episodes as the Master before regenerating, what if the year of Martha walking the earth had taken more than one episode.  What if Turn left had been half a season of references and clues to things being not right?  What if we had gotten a season of Jack tagging along with the Doctor and Rose?  What if they were really really patient, and strung the Doctor;s encounters with River out over more than two incarnations of the doctor, oh so much that they seem to rush past.  Biggest for me was the Raknos (sp).  They were there at the formation of the earth, and hid for centuries, bleeding into our subconscious, our nightmares since the  dawn of time, and yet they get dealt with in one episode, when clearly this would have made an amazing season long arch.

  I do like Moffats use of time, though, even in this rough concept.  Amy meets Ten at the end, then he comes back before that, a but of a mirroring of his relationship with River.

Still tidbits of might have been's are fun what ifs.  Except for the people who utterly hate the show but continue to watch (and evidently post).


I have always said these two things: that Jacobi should have stayed the Master for a little while.  His switch and I AM THE MASTER moment was absolutely chilling, and he and Tennant would have worked well together.

Also, Captain Jack needs to be a regular companion, but only as part of a small cast.  I was thinking about this earlier: Jack is such a big, unique character that it was almost unfair to have him saddled with a bunch of morans in Torchwood.  The best Torchwood arc: Children of Earth, focused almost solely on Jack, and that worked well.  When Moffat said he wanted to have Jack in the battle where the Silence steal little River, I thought that sounded cool, but ultimately forced.  Jack would not have had enough screen time, and he would have been simply window dressing.
 
2013-04-06 09:57:40 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: When Moffat said he wanted to have Jack in the battle where the Silence steal little River, I thought that sounded cool, but ultimately forced.  Jack would not have had enough screen time, and he would have been simply window dressing.


I always thought that would have been the perfect opportunity to have a cameo for Ace.
 
2013-04-06 11:35:26 PM
So...the doctor would've perform cunnilingus on a woman during her period?
 
2013-04-07 01:03:31 AM
I enjoy Smith but Tennant is a better actor. That said, I love Doctor Who.
 
2013-04-07 03:42:16 AM

zunkus: I enjoy Smith but Tennant is a better actor. That said, I love Doctor Who.


Tennant is good and brash enough to steal every scene he's in and this seems true no matter where you see him.  Smith seems to more or less play the same personality in just about everything, but my exposure to him has been more limitedly.
 
2013-04-07 06:44:43 AM

gadian: zunkus: I enjoy Smith but Tennant is a better actor. That said, I love Doctor Who.

Tennant is good and brash enough to steal every scene he's in and this seems true no matter where you see him.  Smith seems to more or less play the same personality in just about everything, but my exposure to him has been more limitedly.


Yeah, Smith does seem to be kind of one dimensional. His "surprise" face looks the same as his "scared" or "excited" face. Then again it might just be me but it seems like he hasn't really had an opportunity to do much else seeming as it's the "Amy's in trouble" show. Perhaps this new season he will have the chance to grow a bit.
 
2013-04-07 09:00:14 AM

t3knomanser: They do have some good chemistry, though. Clara is very likable. And the Doctor's attachment at least makes more sense- he has a puzzle that he  must figure out.


In the latest episode the Doctor does display rather linear thinking for a time lord. He knows there is something strange about Clara, because he's met other versions of her before. Yet he investigates her childhood and parents and finding nothing is frustrated. As a time traveller he should know that Clara could be normal now but something could happen in her future to cause the mystery. He appears to just not consider this. It's like he is just assuming that because he has seen the puzzle in his past it must also have happened in her past.
 
2013-04-07 09:11:24 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Valacirca: Also, are some of you honestly using the stupid BBCAmerica Amy intro as an actual reason to hate the character?  That's like hating a movie because a studio released a really bad trailer, its just dumb marketing.



Having to see the BBC America intro a few times, I can understand the hate.
Sad that American viewers had to put up with that.
On another note; tonight's episode was meh, although the singing was pleasant.
Hopefully the stories get better soon.


Tonight's episode was brutally bad. Long, pointless speeches full of nothing. No actual point, other than to seem epic, which it was certainly not. It was a microcosm of everything that's not working with the show these days.
 
2013-04-07 09:39:14 AM
I really hope they get on with Clara, this whole "she's impossible" thing is gonna get old quickly, and the Doctor Stalker thing... creepy.

Also:

http://mimi-na.deviantart.com/art/Doctor-s-Girls-Wallpaper-58513223

http://mimi-na.deviantart.com/art/Bad-Wolf-Byebye-90862498

:O)
 
2013-04-07 10:47:04 AM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: glass_ibis: whizbangthedirtfarmer:
And I would say almost any later episode with Donna Noble in it has been the best nuWho companion episode.

Out of curiosity, were you already familiar with Catherine Tate before you saw her on DW?  If so, did you like her before?

Not sure if you're fishing, but it depends on your definition of "familiar."  I had seen her on several episodes of the Catherine Tate show, and I found her to be talented and funny, though the show suffered from the usual issues of sketch comedy -- at some point in time, the material will feel forced.


Actually, I was fishing to see if a theory of mine holds up.  The theory is that those that consider Tate a good/best companion are those who enjoyed her in some other context and carried that attachment to her in DW.

Thanks for responding to my unscientific survey.
 
2013-04-07 10:53:40 AM

glass_ibis: whizbangthedirtfarmer: glass_ibis: whizbangthedirtfarmer:
And I would say almost any later episode with Donna Noble in it has been the best nuWho companion episode.

Out of curiosity, were you already familiar with Catherine Tate before you saw her on DW?  If so, did you like her before?

Not sure if you're fishing, but it depends on your definition of "familiar."  I had seen her on several episodes of the Catherine Tate show, and I found her to be talented and funny, though the show suffered from the usual issues of sketch comedy -- at some point in time, the material will feel forced.

Actually, I was fishing to see if a theory of mine holds up.  The theory is that those that consider Tate a good/best companion are those who enjoyed her in some other context and carried that attachment to her in DW.

Thanks for responding to my unscientific survey.


Ironically, I thought Tate was a bad fit for Doctor Who.  I didn't like Donna Noble in her Christmas special, and she was off-putting in the Adipose episode.  It took me about three or four episodes to "like" her.  Also, she has extraordinary chemistry with Tennant, which helped the process along.  I guess, in the end, I was aware of Catherine Tate, but not a BIG fan, just appreciative, but I thought she was a bad fit for Doctor Who, only to find out she worked very well in the show.
 
2013-04-07 10:54:46 AM
glass_ibis:
Actually, I was fishing to see if a theory of mine holds up.  The theory is that those that consider Tate a good/best companion are those who enjoyed her in some other context and carried that attachment to her in DW.

Thanks for responding to my unscientific survey.


I had never seen her before Doctor Who.  Never.  At first I thought she was horribly grating and frankly just not pretty enough to be a companion.  By the end of her run, she was the greatest Companion that the Doctor has ever had.
 
2013-04-07 11:06:29 AM

Hebalo: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Valacirca: Also, are some of you honestly using the stupid BBCAmerica Amy intro as an actual reason to hate the character?  That's like hating a movie because a studio released a really bad trailer, its just dumb marketing.

Having to see the BBC America intro a few times, I can understand the hate.
Sad that American viewers had to put up with that.
On another note; tonight's episode was meh, although the singing was pleasant.
Hopefully the stories get better soon.

Tonight's episode was brutally bad. Long, pointless speeches full of nothing. No actual point, other than to seem epic, which it was certainly not. It was a microcosm of everything that's not working with the show these days.


Yeah, it wasn't great. And ended with an ass-pull ending. For a while I thought the Doctor had deliberately chosen that place, or engineered it somehow, just to get Clara to give up something important so he could find out what it was, but the ending didn't seem to confirm that.

The young girl however is the daughter of Aled Jones who as a child singer had a hit with Walking on the Air, the song from The Snowman.
 
2013-04-07 11:07:16 AM

Flint Ironstag: In the latest episode the Doctor does display rather linear thinking for a time lord. He knows there is something strange about Clara, because he's met other versions of her before. Yet he investigates her childhood and parents and finding nothing is frustrated. As a time traveller he should know that Clara could be normal now but something could happen in her future to cause the mystery. He appears to just not consider this. It's like he is just assuming that because he has seen the puzzle in his past it must also have happened in her past.


Or he knows that he's going to be a part of her future and he can't cross his own time stream and thus is forced to wait and see like the rest of us.
 
2013-04-07 11:40:24 AM

Mentat: Flint Ironstag: In the latest episode the Doctor does display rather linear thinking for a time lord. He knows there is something strange about Clara, because he's met other versions of her before. Yet he investigates her childhood and parents and finding nothing is frustrated. As a time traveller he should know that Clara could be normal now but something could happen in her future to cause the mystery. He appears to just not consider this. It's like he is just assuming that because he has seen the puzzle in his past it must also have happened in her past.

Or he knows that he's going to be a part of her future and he can't cross his own time stream and thus is forced to wait and see like the rest of us.


...which he has had absolutely no problem with in the past (remember River Song's "the mind boggles" comment).
 
2013-04-07 11:52:42 AM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: glass_ibis: whizbangthedirtfarmer: glass_ibis: whizbangthedirtfarmer:
And I would say almost any later episode with Donna Noble in it has been the best nuWho companion episode.

Out of curiosity, were you already familiar with Catherine Tate before you saw her on DW?  If so, did you like her before?

Not sure if you're fishing, but it depends on your definition of "familiar."  I had seen her on several episodes of the Catherine Tate show, and I found her to be talented and funny, though the show suffered from the usual issues of sketch comedy -- at some point in time, the material will feel forced.

Actually, I was fishing to see if a theory of mine holds up.  The theory is that those that consider Tate a good/best companion are those who enjoyed her in some other context and carried that attachment to her in DW.

Thanks for responding to my unscientific survey.

Ironically, I thought Tate was a bad fit for Doctor Who.  I didn't like Donna Noble in her Christmas special, and she was off-putting in the Adipose episode.  It took me about three or four episodes to "like" her.  Also, she has extraordinary chemistry with Tennant, which helped the process along.  I guess, in the end, I was aware of Catherine Tate, but not a BIG fan, just appreciative, but I thought she was a bad fit for Doctor Who, only to find out she worked very well in the show.


That's about where I stand. I didn't know who she was beforehand other than she was that shrieking harpy character that I hated in that one Christmas special. I went in thinking she was going to be horrible and was pleasantly surprised how well she turned out.
 
2013-04-07 12:04:59 PM
I give Donna a break because of the fantastic mime scene at the window when she and the Doctor spot each other. She could have spent the rest of the season setting fire to orphanages and would have come out ahead.
 
2013-04-07 12:23:44 PM
I will never understand two things about the doctor who fark crowd:

Their love of Donna and their disdain of matt smith.

Donna was highly irritating but I still give her props for some decent episodes.

Matt Smith plays a wonderfully entertaining doctor that is a nice relief from the past seasons.

Moffat has been writing a mixed bag lately but I don't see anything wrong with Matt Smith's doctor. The previous season where the doctor dies was an awesome series. I loved every minute. I like episodes with a lot of time travel.
 
2013-04-07 03:17:29 PM

enforcerpsu: I will never understand two things about the doctor who fark crowd:

Their love of Donna and their disdain of matt smith.

Donna was highly irritating but I still give her props for some decent episodes.

Matt Smith plays a wonderfully entertaining doctor that is a nice relief from the past seasons.

Moffat has been writing a mixed bag lately but I don't see anything wrong with Matt Smith's doctor. The previous season where the doctor dies was an awesome series. I loved every minute. I like episodes with a lot of time travel.


I find it curious too.  I thought Donna was a complete waste of screen time until "Turn Left". From there she became tolerable but I never really grew to like her.  Up until Turn Left I was actively hoping she would get left behind or die.  Doubly annoying was the fact that they reverted her back to her original vapid form and erased any affection I had for her. It was supposed to be a tragic ending (and it was) but it made it seem like they'd wasted an entire season's companion slot.

As for Tennant vs Smith - I think they are both great in their own way.  I think Tennant is a more expressive actor (that might be due to having to over-act when working on stage) but some of my favorite episodes are Smiths.

Moffat has been uneven but he seems to have a better feel for the twisty-ness of time travel than Davies did.   Davies wrote some great episodes - "Midnight" a prime example - but most of the stories are linear, simply set in a different time/place.
 
2013-04-07 09:45:07 PM

enforcerpsu: Their love of Donna and their disdain of matt smith.


I thought Smith showed the best acting since CE's "why won't you die" speech in Dalek last night.  Was never a fan of 10, probably more because of Rose than anything, but...I think Martha was the best companion ever (is 50 years).

In retrospect, making her so awful in The Runaway Bride was genius, because it makes her reappearance and ultimate arc so much more painful to watch.
 
2013-04-08 01:35:47 AM

zunkus: I enjoy Smith but Tennant is a better actor. That said, I love Doctor Who.


Perhaps, when he's not off his leash.

i.imgur.com


Having said that, his Hamlet was mesmerizing. Here's the whole thing.
 
2013-04-08 03:54:57 PM

100 Watt Walrus: zunkus: I enjoy Smith but Tennant is a better actor. That said, I love Doctor Who.

Perhaps, when he's not off his leash.

[i.imgur.com image 500x290]

Having said that, his Hamlet was mesmerizing. Here's the whole thing.


Agreed. Though the lighting was really odd.

/and SirPatStew! Yum!
 
2013-04-09 02:53:31 PM
I don't get these complaints about the Most Important Girl in the Universe thing that happens on this show.

Ace was the Most Important Girl in the Universe (The Doctor was grooming her for something special).
Peri was the Most Important Girl in the Universe (watch Trial of a Timelord).
Romana was the Most Important Girl in the Universe, too.

In fact, I think every girl on the TARDIS was exceptionally important in some way. Maybe not "destroy the universe if we don't sort this out" important, but important to The Doctor's plans, anyway.

Oh, wait--- There was Mel. She wasn't important at all. In fact, she was so unimportant and annoying that the Doctor eagerly gave her away to Sabalom Glitz.

But everyone else going back to his granddaughter (who he actually finally mentioned this week!) was vitally important at some point. Why else would he risk so much to travel with them?

Stop whining about it. This is the structure of the show. The Doctor picks up a companion that intrigues him in some way. He wouldn't travel with boring people.

Also, I'd think that just being associated with The Doctor makes ANYONE one of the Most Important People in the Universe. He's unique in all of creatior, he has seen the dawn of time and the end of it, and he picked YOU to travel with him. Welcome to the big leagues, baby.
 
2013-04-09 04:12:01 PM

ZeroCorpse: He wouldn't travel with boring people.


Ian Chesterton.
 
2013-04-09 04:13:58 PM

ZeroCorpse: I don't get these complaints about the Most Important Girl in the Universe thing that happens on this show.

Ace was the Most Important Girl in the Universe (The Doctor was grooming her for something special).
Peri was the Most Important Girl in the Universe (watch Trial of a Timelord).
Romana was the Most Important Girl in the Universe, too.

In fact, I think every girl on the TARDIS was exceptionally important in some way. Maybe not "destroy the universe if we don't sort this out" important, but important to The Doctor's plans, anyway.

Oh, wait--- There was Mel. She wasn't important at all. In fact, she was so unimportant and annoying that the Doctor eagerly gave her away to Sabalom Glitz.

But everyone else going back to his granddaughter (who he actually finally mentioned this week!) was vitally important at some point. Why else would he risk so much to travel with them?

Stop whining about it. This is the structure of the show. The Doctor picks up a companion that intrigues him in some way. He wouldn't travel with boring people.

Also, I'd think that just being associated with The Doctor makes ANYONE one of the Most Important People in the Universe. He's unique in all of creatior, he has seen the dawn of time and the end of it, and he picked YOU to travel with him. Welcome to the big leagues, baby.


Well I am not sure before #2 but to build off you point I think many were either critically important in their own times or a puzzle in some way outside of the doctor.
Zoe-  super special mathmatical genius from the future
Liz - UNITscientific Advisor
JO -  Daughter of an ambassador or some such thing.. I got nothing
Sarah Jane - Top Journalist
Leela - The Doctors very own Eliza Doolittle
Romana - Top timelord chosen by the high council
Adric - Super Special Mathmatical Genius
Nyssa - Space Princess
Tegan - Brave heart (kind of a Donna before there was a Donna.)
Turlough - Space Prince
Peri - MEH  but you are right about Trial of Timelord
Mel - usless absolutely useless
Ace - ahh  the mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped around Nitro 9.
 
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