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(WRAL)   Having solved all other problems, North Carolina passes a bill requiring schools to teach cursive handwriting. So students will be able to read the Bill of Rights   (wral.com) divider line 165
    More: Stupid, North Carolina, multiplication tables, bill of rights, elementary schools  
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1146 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Apr 2013 at 9:01 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-06 02:26:20 AM  
I'm kind of okay with this.  My only concern is that once they stop using it, they'll never have a reason to pick it up again.
 
2013-04-06 02:27:43 AM  
I thought it already was...
 
2013-04-06 02:38:24 AM  
My handwriting sucks, and I've always been a bit envious of people who naturally have good handwriting. As far back as I can remember, I've used block print instead of cursive. The older I get, the worse even that gets.
But I have to wonder. They say this won't cost anything, and I'm sure that strictly in terms of dollars, that might be true. But what's getting dropped from the curriculum to make room for handwriting class? What's that going to do to test scores?
 
2013-04-06 06:51:09 AM  
teach kids about writing and numbers?  radical thinking there
 
2013-04-06 07:32:00 AM  
"Rep. Pat Hurley, R-Randolph, is the sponsor of House Bill 146, known as the "Back to Basics" bill. She said she filed the proposal after receiving a bunch of printed thank-you notes from a local fourth-grade class that visited her in Raleigh."

Poor thing, the world has become computerized and she doesn't want to join us.
 
2013-04-06 08:31:34 AM  
Good for North Carolina, maybe they can read that 1st Amendment about establishing an official religion now!
 
2013-04-06 08:40:36 AM  
Now teach them all Greek so they can read the Bible.
 
2013-04-06 08:52:08 AM  
North Carolina students weren't required to memorize multiplication tables until now? Well, that explains a lot.
 
2013-04-06 09:03:53 AM  

propasaurus: My handwriting sucks, and I've always been a bit envious of people who naturally have good handwriting. As far back as I can remember, I've used block print instead of cursive. The older I get, the worse even that gets.


There's no "naturally" about it.  I have nice, loopy, Victorian handwriting because my grandmother forced me to practice my penmanship every night for about an hour.  You can have nice handwriting if you want, it just takes lots and lots of practice until the muscle memory sets in.
 
2013-04-06 09:08:17 AM  

Peepeye: I thought it already was...


I'm in Texas, and my 7th grade son has never been taught cursive in our public schools here..
 
2013-04-06 09:09:48 AM  
WHY ARE WE NOT TRAINING OUR CHILDREN SEMAPHORE

WHEN SOCIETY CRASHES AND YOUR CHILD IS ON A MOUNTAINTOP, AND A HUNGRY BEAR APPROACHES FROM BEHIND, AND ANOTHER CHILD SIGNALS A WARNING FROM ANOTHER MOUNTAINTOP, BUT YOUR CHILD DID NOT LEARN THE SEMAPHORE OF OUR FOREFATHERS, THEN YOU WILL REAP THE WHIRLWIND
 
2013-04-06 09:10:17 AM  
I had a Chinese roommate in college, I once left him a note in cursive. He could not read it.

/csb
//ur welcome
///got nothing
 
2013-04-06 09:12:43 AM  
Also we should teach girls how to wear white gloves, so at least they can be well-bred little ladies when they are devoured by hungry, hungry bears.
 
2013-04-06 09:14:10 AM  
I dunno about cursive but the multiplication tables are certainly still taught in the public schools around here--because knowing your multiplication tables is a useful real world skill. Imagine having to pull out your calculator every time you have to calculate the tip on a restaurant check. Oh, you do? Sorry.

Part of me agrees with her out of nostalgia, part of me says "don't you have more important things to worry about?" And then I think "Gee, what more important things are they thinking about in NC these days? Gun laws? State religion? Women's rights?" You know what, you go right on wasting your time making cursive lessons mandatory. Do you guys have a state pie yet? And those post offices aren't going to name themselves.
 
2013-04-06 09:14:21 AM  
I had a workstudy student who couldn't even read cursive, let alone write it.  I knew that standards were laxer than in ye olde tymes when I went to school, but I thought they had at least a vague ability on how to read cursive.

Of course, this was the least of his problems.  Thankfully, people like that don't stick around long.
 
2013-04-06 09:16:34 AM  
Fark
Piss
Shiat
Coont
Motherfracker
Bugger
Semprini
 
2013-04-06 09:16:35 AM  
I'm okay with this too. There's something to be said about fine motor skills and cursive is one way to improve those.
 
2013-04-06 09:16:43 AM  
Sure you want students reading the Constitution and Bill of Rights NC? There is a lot of stuff in there you don't agree with.
 
2013-04-06 09:17:27 AM  
I'm fine with teaching it, but f*cking standardize it a bit better. I learned how to write cursive in one state, moved to another, and was told I was making every SINGLE letter "wrong" and was "retrained."  I now know two entire alphabets' worth of how to make cursive letters, and none of it looks good.

And nobody teacheſ  the long ſ, ſo I don't ſee what thiſ haſ  to do with the Bill of Rightſ.
 
2013-04-06 09:18:07 AM  

propasaurus: My handwriting sucks, and I've always been a bit envious of people who naturally have good handwriting. As far back as I can remember, I've used block print instead of cursive. The older I get, the worse even that gets.
But I have to wonder. They say this won't cost anything, and I'm sure that strictly in terms of dollars, that might be true. But what's getting dropped from the curriculum to make room for handwriting class? What's that going to do to test scores?


Given that NC is run by Republicans, my guess is that science classes would be cut. Especially if it's biology class, which teaches that evolution is real.
 
2013-04-06 09:18:22 AM  

propasaurus: But what's getting dropped from the curriculum to make room for handwriting class? What's that going to do to test scores?


They're dropping science biology but it won't affect test scores because they're only going to be tested on Bible biology.
 
2013-04-06 09:18:24 AM  
My two older children were taught cursive. My youngest had to be taught to 'sign' a document. If we leave him notes, we have to either put it in block print, send a message to his computer, or hope he can look at our handwriting and study it out.
 
2013-04-06 09:22:34 AM  

FatherDale: My two older children were taught cursive. My youngest had to be taught to 'sign' a document. If we leave him notes, we have to either put it in block print, send a message to his computer, or hope he can look at our handwriting and study it out.


Nice use of "study it out."
 
2013-04-06 09:23:20 AM  
I'm kind of surprised that they stopped.
What will people do when they want to hand write something longer than a post it note?
 
2013-04-06 09:24:35 AM  

FatherDale: My two older children were taught cursive. My youngest had to be taught to 'sign' a document. If we leave him notes, we have to either put it in block print, send a message to his computer, or hope he can look at our handwriting and study it out.


Try teaching it to him yourself if it's a skill you want him to have.
 
2013-04-06 09:25:42 AM  
Having solved all other problems, North Carolina passes a bill requiring schools to teach cursive handwriting. So students will be able to read the Bill of Rights  that the state will soon be ignoring.

FTFS.
 
2013-04-06 09:26:46 AM  
They should have taught subby about sentence fragments.
 
2013-04-06 09:27:27 AM  
Add me to the people who are OK with this.  In my opinion both are valuable skills.  I think that people underestimate the value of both.  In many ways, both increase your ability to learn.  Cursive writing allows you to write faster.  If you have been to college and are the type to take extensive notes like I did (I had to since I am not that smart), you learn to appreciate being able to write in cursive.

Same with the memorization of multiplication tables.  Once you start taking advanced math, the numbers you multiply or divide usually are small; its the formulas and theories that are the biatch.  Having the multiplication tables memorized helps you focus on what's important instead of 3rd grade level multiplication.  Having multiplication tables memorized is pretty much a must once you reach college.  Heck, just in normal business transactions it can help prevent you from being ripped off also.
 
2013-04-06 09:28:08 AM  

Muta: They should have taught subby about sentence fragments.


WRAL serves Fayettenam, so it's likely subby was "educated" in one of the other 49 states.
 
2013-04-06 09:28:44 AM  

Kibbler: WHY ARE WE NOT TRAINING OUR CHILDREN SEMAPHORE

WHEN SOCIETY CRASHES AND YOUR CHILD IS ON A MOUNTAINTOP, AND A HUNGRY BEAR APPROACHES FROM BEHIND, AND ANOTHER CHILD SIGNALS A WARNING FROM ANOTHER MOUNTAINTOP, BUT YOUR CHILD DID NOT LEARN THE SEMAPHORE OF OUR FOREFATHERS, THEN YOU WILL REAP THE WHIRLWIND


...I didn't know smoke signals were semaphore.
 
2013-04-06 09:29:31 AM  
I paused to think about my own use of cursive over time, and it's just been a heck of a lot faster than block letters.

/They still teach kids to use the QWERTY keyboard?

//They'd better stay off my lawn, regardless
 
2013-04-06 09:30:01 AM  
Cursive -- it's a better test of age than that fake ID.
 
2013-04-06 09:30:36 AM  

heavymetal: Add me to the people who are OK with this.  In my opinion both are valuable skills.  I think that people underestimate the value of both.  In many ways, both increase your ability to learn.  Cursive writing allows you to write faster.  If you have been to college and are the type to take extensive notes like I did (I had to since I am not that smart), you learn to appreciate being able to write in cursive.

Same with the memorization of multiplication tables.  Once you start taking advanced math, the numbers you multiply or divide usually are small; its the formulas and theories that are the biatch.  Having the multiplication tables memorized helps you focus on what's important instead of 3rd grade level multiplication.  Having multiplication tables memorized is pretty much a must once you reach college.  Heck, just in normal business transactions it can help prevent you from being ripped off also.


I never properly memorized them as a kid, I just learned how to do the actual math in my head quickly enough to make the teachers think that I had the tables memorized.  Later in my schoolin' years, it led to a number of truly shocked math teachers who just couldn't comprehend that I really was solving equations in my head rather than cheating off of somebody else.

/"show your work" was the phrase that I despised the most.
 
2013-04-06 09:32:47 AM  

rufus-t-firefly: Peepeye: I thought it already was...

I'm in Texas, and my 7th grade son has never been taught cursive in our public schools here..


I wonder when that happened. I remember learning cursive in 3rd and multiplication tables in 4th.

I will say that my own handwriting skills were really poor the last decade or so, but I returned to school this spring and one semester of note taking returned my cursive skills, beautifully.

Also, every kid should learn touch typing. If you're going to spend a lifetime on the computer, it makes your life much easier, imo. I took one semester in high school and never regreted it.

If they really want kids going back to the basics, they should take two years of Latin, too. :D
 
2013-04-06 09:36:44 AM  

colinspooky: teach kids about writing and numbers?  radical thinking there


'Rithmetic. It's called 'rithmetic (or cipherin'). But none of that readin', hear?
 
2013-04-06 09:38:50 AM  
The Bill of Rights is written in Copperplate, not cursive, dummy.

www.archives.gov

Yes, yes,  very legible.
 
2013-04-06 09:40:54 AM  

heavymetal: Add me to the people who are OK with this.  In my opinion both are valuable skills.  I think that people underestimate the value of both.  In many ways, both increase your ability to learn.  Cursive writing allows you to write faster.  If you have been to college and are the type to take extensive notes like I did (I had to since I am not that smart), you learn to appreciate being able to write in cursive.

Same with the memorization of multiplication tables.  Once you start taking advanced math, the numbers you multiply or divide usually are small; its the formulas and theories that are the biatch.  Having the multiplication tables memorized helps you focus on what's important instead of 3rd grade level multiplication.  Having multiplication tables memorized is pretty much a must once you reach college.  Heck, just in normal business transactions it can help prevent you from being ripped off also.


Quick note taking requires shorthhand, not cursive. For me, writing in cursive was always slower.
 
2013-04-06 09:42:49 AM  
Cursive was just created as a quicker way to write than printing.  So what they really should be teaching is shorthand.
 
2013-04-06 09:42:56 AM  
What's wrong with this?  Oh dear, kids might learn how to do something that most of the developed world knows how to do?  Kids won't always have access to computers- especially if they end up abroad in a underdeveloped country for any reason (military, missions, life, etc).  I had to use cursive all the time in college because my teachers weren't going to let me have a computer to take a written test with.  And I used it all of the time in my job where I took notes while talking on the phone.  Having a way to write that is faster than print is not a big deal.  I think it's kind of pathetic that neither of my teenage nephews knows how to read or write cursive because their crappy rural school decided it was a waste of time.  They can't even read the notes my Grandma or Mom send them with their birthday cards.  Even if my kids don't learn cursive in school for whatever reason, I will make sure they learn at home.
 
2013-04-06 09:45:27 AM  

Rhino_man: FatherDale: My two older children were taught cursive. My youngest had to be taught to 'sign' a document. If we leave him notes, we have to either put it in block print, send a message to his computer, or hope he can look at our handwriting and study it out.

Try teaching it to him yourself if it's a skill you want him to have.


We did.
 
2013-04-06 09:49:43 AM  
They will also need to teach that F is the S of the 16th Century.
 
2013-04-06 09:59:23 AM  
If the NCGA's worst problem was idiocy like this, it would be one thing but they are actively trying to destroy at least one city in the state.

The real news of this session of the GA are the bills put forth that are going to force the city of Asheville to deal with an almost $6 million budget deficit. Why? Because the GA rep from that area has a hate-on for the city. He's been working for the past two years at stripping the local government of the water system and the airport.

Because, you know, "small government".
 
2013-04-06 10:06:14 AM  
Meh.  Require schools to teach Greek and Latin again, and then I'll be impressed.
 
2013-04-06 10:06:20 AM  
So when Indiana stops teaching cursive Fark says "Stupid" and when North Carolina does the opposite, Fark says "Stupid"...make up your mind.
 
2013-04-06 10:06:39 AM  
Cursive neat enough to be read by anyone but the writer is more effort to make than just printing. I say let formalized cursive die, anyone who so desires can mash together some shorthand system of chickenscratch for their own eyes. Of course, I don't think very differently about the English Imperial measurement system.
 
2013-04-06 10:07:53 AM  

Kibbler: heavymetal: Add me to the people who are OK with this.  In my opinion both are valuable skills.  I think that people underestimate the value of both.  In many ways, both increase your ability to learn.  Cursive writing allows you to write faster.  If you have been to college and are the type to take extensive notes like I did (I had to since I am not that smart), you learn to appreciate being able to write in cursive.

Quick note taking requires shorthhand, not cursive. For me, writing in cursive was always slower.


And if you don't know shorthand, cursive is a lot better than printing.  Was for me.  Kind of like how driving is faster than walking but flying is faster than driving, I don't think one discounts the other.  Maybe they should make teaching shorthand standard like suggested in a post above; but that is a whole other discussion.  Of course you could just video record the lecture with a smartphone which would be even faster, but I found I retained the stuff better if I wrote it down as I went.  Same basic concept whether cursive or shorthand, it allows a person to write faster which is a valuable skill in pursuing a higher education.

Rhino_man: heavymetal:

Same with the memorization of multiplication tables.  Once you start taking advanced math, the numbers you multiply or divide usually are small; its the formulas and theories that are the biatch.  Having the multiplication tables memorized helps you focus on what's important instead of 3rd grade level multiplication.  Having multiplication tables memorized is pretty much a must once you reach college.  Heck, just in normal business transactions it can help prevent you from being ripped off also.

I never properly memorized them as a kid, I just learned how to do the actual math in my head quickly enough to make the teachers think that I had the tables memorized.  Later in my schoolin' years, it led to a number of truly shocked math teachers who just couldn't comprehend that I really was solving equations in my head rather than cheating off of somebody else.

/"show your work" was the phrase that I despised the most.


I never properly memorized them either as a kid either.  Not as smart as you though, I kind of relied on a few what I would call "parlor tricks" to compensate.  Stuff like using your hands to easily multiply by 9 or memorizing the easy stuff like 6x6 and then adding 6 or 12 to get the answer to 6x7 or 6x8.  But still again the same basic concept; a way to let you concentrate and spend more time on the important/complex stuff, instead of wasting time on basic stuff.

But then that is how I found things to be.  Other life experiences can lead to different conclusions.
 
2013-04-06 10:10:26 AM  
Hurley said cursive writing is "a skill that's needed in the larger world and is thought to be a requirement for a well-rounded educated person," adding that her research shows it helps students' motor skills and self-discipline.

Cursive is unnecessary, but the ability to print legibly without effort is necessary to compose a comprehensible text quickly and not allow the process of writing to interfere with train of thought. The fine motor skills and self-discipline is not developed through cursive alone but expectations on legibility by teachers.
 
2013-04-06 10:11:17 AM  

way south: I'm kind of surprised that they stopped.
What will people do when they want to hand write something longer than a post it note?


Write it in block print? I don't understand why people see that as a taxing endeavor? It's MUCH easier to write in regular block text. I was taught cursive writing in the 3rd grade, but I don't use it because unless your penmanship is PERFECT, it's going to look like word-vomit on a page. I was taught cursive and I STILL can't read it very well. It's one of those elementary school lies where the teacher says,"You need to know this because you will use it every day" but in reality I haven't written in cursive since the 3rd grade. We only really use cursive nowadays to write our signatures, and even that is usually some chicken-scratch hybrid cursive. There is a reason it's dying out, because people can't farking read it because it sucks! I say let it die.

/end rant
 
2013-04-06 10:11:25 AM  

clambam: I dunno about cursive but the multiplication tables are certainly still taught in the public schools around here--because knowing your multiplication tables is a useful real world skill. Imagine having to pull out your calculator every time you have to calculate the tip on a restaurant check. Oh, you do? Sorry.

Part of me agrees with her out of nostalgia, part of me says "don't you have more important things to worry about?" And then I think "Gee, what more important things are they thinking about in NC these days? Gun laws? State religion? Women's rights?" You know what, you go right on wasting your time making cursive lessons mandatory. Do you guys have a state pie yet? And those post offices aren't going to name themselves.


Multiplcation tables and calculating percent values are two different skills. Though as long as it's multiples of ten it's easy. 7 percent IE sales tax around here is a lot harder.
 
2013-04-06 10:14:13 AM  
To me it's astounding to think that high school kids can't even READ script. Honestly, that's handicapping them for future careers more than not knowing how to use a computer.  I can't tell you how many tertiary care hospitals still use hand-written medical records.  Not all kids are going to be doctors, but those kids can't even become "medical billing and coding specialists" from DeVry either.
 
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