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(Think Progress)   Congressman with 2.5 million in debt urges government to be as fiscally responsible as he is in running his business. Claims he balances his budget every day   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 119
    More: Dumbass, congressman, balanced budgets, House Budget Committee, personal budget  
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3674 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Apr 2013 at 6:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 04:13:19 PM
And of course he's from Texas.
 
2013-04-05 04:19:55 PM
A Republican Congressman on the House Budget Committee whose car dealership has at least $2.5 million in debts

ih1.redbubble.net
 
2013-04-05 05:18:55 PM
IOKIYAR
 
2013-04-05 05:31:26 PM
Businesses can have tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in debt and be quite alright.  It doesn't say anything about the net value of the business.  We would need to see how his debt payments compare to his income, to greatly simplify it.

Additionally, this is an ad hominem fallacy, and doesn't address his argument.

That being said, his argument is pretty horrible.  Saying that individuals need to balance their budget on a daily basis, therefore the government does, is quite stupid.
 
2013-04-05 06:28:55 PM
Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.  The only things stupider are the moron who submitted this intellectual garbage and the idiot modmin who approved it.
 
2013-04-05 06:30:00 PM

Blues_X: And of course he's from Texas.


Done in one.
 
2013-04-05 06:30:14 PM

TheOnion: Businesses can have tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in debt and be quite alright.  It doesn't say anything about the net value of the business.  We would need to see how his debt payments compare to his income, to greatly simplify it.

Additionally, this is an ad hominem fallacy, and doesn't address his argument.

That being said, his argument is pretty horrible.  Saying that individuals need to balance their budget on a daily basis, therefore the government does, is quite stupid.



So would a government's budget be more analogous to a business's budget or a household's budget?
 
2013-04-05 06:31:25 PM

Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.  The only things stupider are the moron who submitted this intellectual garbage and the idiot modmin who approved it.


That's quite the impressive rebuttal sir but the Representative probably won't sleep with you.
 
2013-04-05 06:33:14 PM

Summoner101: So would a government's budget be more analogous to a business's budget or a household's budget?


Easy, the one able print their own money!
 
2013-04-05 06:35:46 PM
Yeah, but does he  fairlybalance it?
 
2013-04-05 06:36:16 PM

Summoner101: So would a government's budget be more analogous to a business's budget or a household's budget?


Don't know, don't care.  Doesn't matter.  The government's budget should be done to maximize the well being of the people, regardless of what it is most analogous to.
 
2013-04-05 06:36:22 PM
hmm, wtf, whitespace?
 
2013-04-05 06:36:38 PM

Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.


They really are. When they first started they were all right. Then after the first year or so they slowly got stupider and stupider. Then they had this expansion and turned the derp up to 11. Sometimes I think they're not even trying.
 
2013-04-05 06:37:49 PM

TheWhoppah: Summoner101: So would a government's budget be more analogous to a business's budget or a household's budget?

Easy, the one able print their own money!


You are aware that the goverment borrows money. They don't just take printed money like you are implying.
 
2013-04-05 06:37:54 PM
The US government is exempt from generally accepted accounting principles, so until they adopt that, they're not going to have a real balance sheet.

Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.  The only things stupider are the moron who submitted this intellectual garbage and the idiot modmin who approved it.


I have a great admiration for the fact that you spelled every word in your post correctly.  You get a gold star for the day!
opensourcebridge.org
 
2013-04-05 06:38:57 PM

sugardave: Yeah, but does he  fairlybalance it?


And does he harmonize his statisticals?
 
2013-04-05 06:47:11 PM

Marcus Aurelius: The US government is exempt from generally accepted accounting principles, so until they adopt that, they're not going to have a real balance sheet.

Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.  The only things stupider are the moron who submitted this intellectual garbage and the idiot modmin who approved it.

I have a great admiration for the fact that you spelled every word in your post correctly.  You get a gold star for the day!
[opensourcebridge.org image 250x238]


Hmmm.  Perhaps something like "the only thing more stupid is the moron who submitted this intellectual garbage and the idiot modmin who approved it" would parse better.  That said, still not sure what are the ideas behind the post.
 
2013-04-05 06:48:42 PM
I don't get it.  Is his business unable to make the payments on its loans?  What is that 2.5 million figure supposed to be telling me about this guy?

The quantity of debt is pretty meaningless without some additional information.
 
2013-04-05 06:51:43 PM

Corvus: You are aware that the goverment borrows money.


Why would you borrow money that you yourself created?

:)

//I think "borrow" is just a poor word to describe what goes on in the monetary system.
 
2013-04-05 06:53:03 PM
Sage advice from a person who understands debt.

Who doesn't listen to Dave Ramsey: a man who has in fact, been there.
 
2013-04-05 06:53:38 PM

jigger: Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.

They really are. When they first started they were all right. Then after the first year or so they slowly got stupider and stupider. Then they had this expansion and turned the derp up to 11. Sometimes I think they're not even trying.


I like how nicely you both completely demolished their argument.

Oh wait...
 
2013-04-05 06:54:03 PM

China White Tea: I don't get it.  Is his business unable to make the payments on its loans?  What is that 2.5 million figure supposed to be telling me about this guy?

The quantity of debt is pretty meaningless without some additional information.


It's an auto dealership so he probably has 2.5 million in stock on the lot.  The point is that most businesses don't work off of a balanced budget.  His analogy is stupid.
 
2013-04-05 06:54:33 PM

Fart_Machine: Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.  The only things stupider are the moron who submitted this intellectual garbage and the idiot modmin who approved it.

That's quite the impressive rebuttal sir but the Representative probably won't sleep with you.


The Rep is Republican. Even money.
 
2013-04-05 06:55:08 PM

Fart_Machine: Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.  The only things stupider are the moron who submitted this intellectual garbage and the idiot modmin who approved it.

That's quite the impressive rebuttal sir but the Representative probably won't sleep with you.


He might for money, though.
 
2013-04-05 06:58:56 PM

fusillade762: jigger: Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.

They really are. When they first started they were all right. Then after the first year or so they slowly got stupider and stupider. Then they had this expansion and turned the derp up to 11. Sometimes I think they're not even trying.

I like how nicely you both completely demolished their argument.

Oh wait...


Whatever. I was just commenting on TP generally.
 
2013-04-05 06:59:41 PM

TheOnion: Businesses can have tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in debt and be quite alright.  It doesn't say anything about the net value of the business.  We would need to see how his debt payments compare to his income, to greatly simplify it.

Additionally, this is an ad hominem fallacy, and doesn't address his argument.

That being said, his argument is pretty horrible.  Saying that individuals need to balance their budget on a daily basis, therefore the government does, is quite stupid.


Well said.
 
2013-04-05 07:01:40 PM

Marcus Aurelius: The US government is exempt from generally accepted accounting principles, so until they adopt that, they're not going to have a real balance sheet.

Manfred J. Hattan: Holy shait is ThinkProgress stupid.  The only things stupider are the moron who submitted this intellectual garbage and the idiot modmin who approved it.

I have a great admiration for the fact that you spelled every word in your post correctly.  You get a gold star for the day!
[opensourcebridge.org image 250x238]


I'm taking your star:there is no such word as "stupider".  The correct way to say it is "more stupid".  Or is that the joke?
 
2013-04-05 07:02:14 PM

clowncar on fire: Sage advice from a person who understands debt.

Who doesn't listen to Dave Ramsey: a man who has in fact, been there.


I don't.  The debt snowball method might be emotionally fulfilling, but it's a stupid way to lower your debt.  Of course if you didn't have an unhealthy relationship with spending money and emotional well-being, you wouldn't need to pay money in order to enrich Dave Ramsey.  I'm not even going to get into his horseshiat spirituality.  fark Dave Ramsey in his ear.
 
2013-04-05 07:02:40 PM

Flargan: Corvus: You are aware that the goverment borrows money.

Why would you borrow money that you yourself created?

:)

//I think "borrow" is just a poor word to describe what goes on in the monetary system.


Oh so it is too complicated for you to understand.
 
2013-04-05 07:03:00 PM

Fart_Machine: It's an auto dealership so he probably has 2.5 million in stock on the lot.  The point is that most businesses don't work off of a balanced budget.  His analogy is stupid.


Hmmm, I wonder how much we would we get if America just decided to straight-up sell the military?  Like all the planes, tanks, ships, nuclear weapons, land, facilities, and personnel?
 
2013-04-05 07:03:32 PM

BSABSVR: clowncar on fire: Sage advice from a person who understands debt.

Who doesn't listen to Dave Ramsey: a man who has in fact, been there.

I don't.  The debt snowball method might be emotionally fulfilling, but it's a stupid way to lower your debt.  Of course if you didn't have an unhealthy relationship with spending money and emotional well-being, you wouldn't need to pay money in order to enrich Dave Ramsey.  I'm not even going to get into his horseshiat spirituality.  fark Dave Ramsey in his ear.


Wait you mean not paying down higher interest rate debts isn't a good idea?
 
2013-04-05 07:04:23 PM

clowncar on fire: I'm taking your star:there is no such word as "stupider". The correct way to say it is "more stupid". Or is that the joke?


I was going to go there, but unfortunately it turns out that "stupider" is technically acceptable, though frowned upon.
 
2013-04-05 07:06:14 PM

Flargan: Corvus: You are aware that the goverment borrows money.

Why would you borrow money that you yourself created?

:)

//I think "borrow" is just a poor word to describe what goes on in the monetary system.


So you don't we should count inter-governmental borrowing as "debt"?

Let's see if you can find the huge flaw in that logic before I have to point it out to you.
 
2013-04-05 07:07:44 PM

China White Tea: I don't get it.  Is his business unable to make the payments on its loans?  What is that 2.5 million figure supposed to be telling me about this guy?

The quantity of debt is pretty meaningless without some additional information.


CSB: As someone who used to own a motorcycle dealership, it's possible that those credit lines are for flooring - when the manufacturer ships each vehicle the manufacturer's invoice is paid via funds from the flooring credit line.  When the vehicle is sold to a retail buyer, the flooring line is repaid for that unit, but if his dealership has a couple hundred cars on the lot then he'd easily have a couple million "owed" to the account.

That said, vehicle manufacturers provide flooring line services for their dealers, usually in-house (Honda Finance Corp., for example) or via very large lending institutions like GE Capital.  It is of course possible for dealers to have independent flooring credit elsewhere, but it's very unusual - there's usually financial incentives like interest-free for the first 30 days for each vehicle that are only when floored through the approved lender.

Since the credit lines are via Legacy Texas Bank, they probably aren't flooring lines, but it's theoretically possible that they are.
 
2013-04-05 07:12:21 PM
What kind of business balances their budget every day?  Does this guy require his dealers to sell any used car that gets put on the lot by end of business?

A Republican Congressman on the House Budget Committee whose car dealership has at least $2.5 million in debts

Oh, OK.  He probably does then.
 
2013-04-05 07:12:46 PM

Flargan: Why would you borrow money that you yourself created?


To not cause inflation. Are you really so unknowledgeable about this subject you don't understand that?


Flargan: //I think "borrow" is just a poor word to describe what goes on in the monetary system.


What what you call putting out bonds that later must be paid back with interest? I think most economists would call it "borrowing".
 
2013-04-05 07:13:57 PM

BSABSVR: clowncar on fire: Sage advice from a person who understands debt.

Who doesn't listen to Dave Ramsey: a man who has in fact, been there.

I don't.  The debt snowball method might be emotionally fulfilling, but it's a stupid way to lower your debt.  Of course if you didn't have an unhealthy relationship with spending money and emotional well-being, you wouldn't need to pay money in order to enrich Dave Ramsey.  I'm not even going to get into his horseshiat spirituality.  fark Dave Ramsey in his ear.


The point is, feel good method or not, keeping track of debt is a good thing.  If someone who has failed in life has advice as to how to avoid ending up like them, it's probably worth a listen rather than a dismissal.  You know- cause they failed and there is nothing that i could learn from their mistakes.  By the way- Dave Ramsey advice is free.  Paying off several smaller debts first and then having to face only a few larger debts is psychologically a bit less stressfull than mailing out lots of little payments.  You get use to being without, you pay off smaller debts, you get immediate sense of accomplishment of concluding these debts.  Then you budget a little extra for yourself as well as increasing those payments on larger debts. What is there not to like?  Or are you one of those that all debt should be forgive and then we all just start again?  Maybe our good senator is in debt simply for the matter that he is lax about collecting the debt that is owed to him.
 
2013-04-05 07:14:35 PM

El Pachuco: CSB:

...

How does that work in terms of business costs?  If the proceeds from each purchase go directly to pay off the credit line - which is never in the black because of the existing stock - where do rent/salaries/etc. come from?  Do they get charged against the credit line too?
 
2013-04-05 07:14:51 PM
As long as he is posting operating profits, making the scheduled debt payments, meeting his financial covenants, and if the FMV of the dealership is more than $2.5 million, what's the issue?  Lots of profitable businesses use debt to finance major capital improvements or as a stopgap for cash flow purposes.


El Pachuco:

Since the credit lines are via Legacy Texas Bank, they probably aren't flooring lines, but it's theoretically possible that they are.

I've seen floorplan loans with some pretty small banks here in Tulsa.  It's entirely possible that the lines are floor loans.  It's not marginally different than a regular loan, just the collateral is fluid.
 
2013-04-05 07:17:02 PM

Minarets: As long as he is posting operating profits, making the scheduled debt payments, meeting his financial covenants, and if the FMV of the dealership is more than $2.5 million, what's the issue?  Lots of profitable businesses use debt to finance major capital improvements or as a stopgap for cash flow purposes.



And the same argument could be made for the federal government. But to these Republican any borrowing is considered evil of the federal government but ok if it's a business for investments.

He is being a hypocrite saying it's ok for a business to borrow for investment but not the government. No one is saying it's wrong for a business to borrow money.
 
2013-04-05 07:17:06 PM

Fart_Machine: BSABSVR: clowncar on fire: Sage advice from a person who understands debt.

Who doesn't listen to Dave Ramsey: a man who has in fact, been there.

I don't.  The debt snowball method might be emotionally fulfilling, but it's a stupid way to lower your debt.  Of course if you didn't have an unhealthy relationship with spending money and emotional well-being, you wouldn't need to pay money in order to enrich Dave Ramsey.  I'm not even going to get into his horseshiat spirituality.  fark Dave Ramsey in his ear.

Wait you mean not paying down higher interest rate debts isn't a good idea?

Ramsay advocates the opposite, that you pay down your smallest debt first, then apply that to your next smallest, and so on
 
2013-04-05 07:18:34 PM

Corvus: Flargan: Corvus: You are aware that the goverment borrows money.

Why would you borrow money that you yourself created?

:)

//I think "borrow" is just a poor word to describe what goes on in the monetary system.

Oh so it is too complicated for you to understand.


No need to get snarky,

I meant that in general the government doesn't "borrow" since it literally creates (or allows others to create) every dollar spent.
In fact no sovereign nation ever borrows its own currency.
 
2013-04-05 07:20:20 PM

Flargan: Corvus: You are aware that the goverment borrows money.

Why would you borrow money that you yourself created?

:)

//I think "borrow" is just a poor word to describe what goes on in the monetary system.


Right now t-bill rates are essentially negative when inflation is considered, so it's actually cheaper to "borrow" money.  Which turns out to be much like printing it.  The t-bills are issued out of thin air.
 
2013-04-05 07:26:44 PM
Texan- Check
Car Salesman- Check
Republican- Check
 
2013-04-05 07:31:20 PM

zerkalo: Texan- Check
Car Salesman- Check
Republican- Check


So total mind melt if there are any Texan democrat car saleman out there?  Check.
 
2013-04-05 07:34:19 PM

Corvus: Flargan: Why would you borrow money that you yourself created?

To not cause inflation. Are you really so unknowledgeable about this subject you don't understand that?


No need to get aggressive..

Inflation is counted from the moment the dollar gets created not the moment it gets spent.

What what you call putting out bonds that later must be paid back with interest? I think most economists would call it "borrowing".

1. You create bonds primarily to adjust overnight lending rates. But you can control the rate.
2. If your an MMT economist, neo-keynesian, or follower of Minsky then you don't call it "borrowing" at all. Austrian economists like Robert Murphy would call it that though.
3. A great deal of how you view monetary systems is going to come down to if you believe S = I or S = I + (S - I).

I recommend reading L. Randall Wray if you want to learn about MMT, Steve Keen if your into Minsky, and your probably already know the prominent neo-keynesians.

Cheers,
 
2013-04-05 07:36:35 PM

BSABSVR: Fart_Machine: BSABSVR: clowncar on fire: Sage advice from a person who understands debt.

Who doesn't listen to Dave Ramsey: a man who has in fact, been there.

I don't.  The debt snowball method might be emotionally fulfilling, but it's a stupid way to lower your debt.  Of course if you didn't have an unhealthy relationship with spending money and emotional well-being, you wouldn't need to pay money in order to enrich Dave Ramsey.  I'm not even going to get into his horseshiat spirituality.  fark Dave Ramsey in his ear.

Wait you mean not paying down higher interest rate debts isn't a good idea?
Ramsay advocates the opposite, that you pay down your smallest debt first, then apply that to your next smallest, and so on


I know. That's the joke.
 
2013-04-05 07:39:53 PM

BSABSVR: Fart_Machine: BSABSVR: clowncar on fire: Sage advice from a person who understands debt.

Who doesn't listen to Dave Ramsey: a man who has in fact, been there.

I don't.  The debt snowball method might be emotionally fulfilling, but it's a stupid way to lower your debt.  Of course if you didn't have an unhealthy relationship with spending money and emotional well-being, you wouldn't need to pay money in order to enrich Dave Ramsey.  I'm not even going to get into his horseshiat spirituality.  fark Dave Ramsey in his ear.

Wait you mean not paying down higher interest rate debts isn't a good idea?
Ramsay advocates the opposite, that you pay down your smallest debt first, then apply that to your next smallest, and so on


Most "small debt"  also carries the highest interest.  Homes may carry around 4%, cars around .9-4.99%.  That $799.00 couch and love seat combo you bought at the furniture "bargain mart" may be carrying 29% or more.  Pay off the small debt first as it is the one that carries the highest debt.

Debt payment made easy: stop the bleeding.  I received a unexpected chunk of change.  Payed off all small debt that carried an interest rate.  Now I have less change but only a home payment i face each month.
 
2013-04-05 07:43:10 PM

clowncar on fire: BSABSVR: Fart_Machine: BSABSVR: clowncar on fire: Sage advice from a person who understands debt.

Who doesn't listen to Dave Ramsey: a man who has in fact, been there.

I don't.  The debt snowball method might be emotionally fulfilling, but it's a stupid way to lower your debt.  Of course if you didn't have an unhealthy relationship with spending money and emotional well-being, you wouldn't need to pay money in order to enrich Dave Ramsey.  I'm not even going to get into his horseshiat spirituality.  fark Dave Ramsey in his ear.

Wait you mean not paying down higher interest rate debts isn't a good idea?
Ramsay advocates the opposite, that you pay down your smallest debt first, then apply that to your next smallest, and so on

Most "small debt"  also carries the highest interest.  Homes may carry around 4%, cars around .9-4.99%.  That $799.00 couch and love seat combo you bought at the furniture "bargain mart" may be carrying 29% or more.  Pay off the small debt first as it is the one that carries the highest debt interest..

Debt payment made easy: stop the bleeding.  I received a unexpected chunk of change.  Payed off all small debt that carried an interest rate.  Now I have less change but only a home payment i face each month.

 
2013-04-05 07:56:16 PM
I used to quit smoking every day but I still seemed to be smoking. Not so sure now.
 
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