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(BBC)   South Korea deploys warships to track North Korean missiles if launched, possibly by following the trail of debris floating in the ocean   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 210
    More: Followup, South Koreans, North Koreans, Security Council resolutions, B-52, U.N. Security Council, missiles, declare war, United States  
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3552 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Apr 2013 at 1:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 11:56:00 AM
Ok, Un it's time to shiat or get off the pot. I don't want you to shiat, but this is getting absurd. The rest of the world has called your hand, so now you need to show it or fold. You have no one on your side.

spinoff.comicbookresources.com

You're missing the point! There's no throne, there is no version of this where you come out on top. Maybe your army comes and maybe it's too much for us [lol] but it's all on you. Because if we can't protect our allies, you can be damn sure we'll avenge them!
 
2013-04-05 12:07:05 PM
What, our Epcott center off the shore isn't enough for that?
 
2013-04-05 12:10:31 PM
Okay, see...Here's my problem and why I'm now officially nervous.

The NKs are telling everyone to get their embassy people out before the 10th of April.

That denotes a count down of some sort.  Are they setting up a missile launch at some hidden base?

And I've dismissed the idea of there being a chance of a transported bomb out of NK, but...I may be changing my mind on that.

This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.
 
2013-04-05 01:09:07 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
I SAID THROW DOWN, BOY!
 
2013-04-05 01:10:07 PM

Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.


We're still, legally, in a state of war with North Korea.  They have now threatened our interests.  Why aren't we launching bombing raids now to completely decapitate their command and control?  The lesson of the past decade is that nation-building is hard, but we don't have to do that; bombing their infrastructure (lol) and going home should be more than enough.  Hell, we can even offer sweet buyout packages for North Korean nuclear "scientists."
 
2013-04-05 01:11:01 PM

Infernalist: Okay, see...Here's my problem and why I'm now officially nervous.

The NKs are telling everyone to get their embassy people out before the 10th of April.

That denotes a count down of some sort.  Are they setting up a missile launch at some hidden base?

And I've dismissed the idea of there being a chance of a transported bomb out of NK, but...I may be changing my mind on that.

This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.


They're just trying to get those countries to lean on the US and S. Korea to make some sort of concession.  What I'm not sure, but that's my opinion.  When April 10 rolls around and nothing happens, the Norks will wave it off as them being "magnanimous", and they'll set a new date.
 
2013-04-05 01:12:11 PM

Forced Perspective: Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.

The lesson of the past decade is that nation-building is hard, but we don't have to do that; bombing their infrastructure (lol) and going home should be more than enough.


B-b-but pottery barn rule!!!

/Thanks a lot, Colin Powell
 
2013-04-05 01:12:51 PM
static.guim.co.uk
Silly Humans...
 
2013-04-05 01:13:17 PM

Infernalist: Okay, see...Here's my problem and why I'm now officially nervous.

The NKs are telling everyone to get their embassy people out before the 10th of April.

That denotes a count down of some sort.  Are they setting up a missile launch at some hidden base?

And I've dismissed the idea of there being a chance of a transported bomb out of NK, but...I may be changing my mind on that.

This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.


WTF would be the point? Kim, Fatty Ass, is just trying to assert his authority to his people with this crap. I actually hope he tries (unsuccessfully) to launch a missile at us or our allies. We could rightfully liberate the NK people of this horrid regime.
 
2013-04-05 01:13:21 PM
April 10th means we can still squeeze in the fark party in NOLA.
 
2013-04-05 01:13:42 PM
With as many threads we're having, can we start getting that summary at the top again?
 
2013-04-05 01:13:57 PM
i.imgur.com

Is it too early for this?
 
2013-04-05 01:14:36 PM

Forced Perspective: Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.

We're still, legally, in a state of war with North Korea.  They have now threatened our interests.  Why aren't we launching bombing raids now to completely decapitate their command and control?  The lesson of the past decade is that nation-building is hard, but we don't have to do that; bombing their infrastructure (lol) and going home should be more than enough.  Hell, we can even offer sweet buyout packages for North Korean nuclear "scientists."


Short Answer: Because China
 
2013-04-05 01:15:00 PM

Treygreen13: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 484x184]
I SAID THROW DOWN, BOY!


You gonna do something, or just stand there and bleed?
 
2013-04-05 01:15:39 PM

Professor Farksworth: [i.imgur.com image 611x263]

Is it too early for this?


I'm so farking sick of seeing shops of that picture. Every god damned NK thread.
 
2013-04-05 01:15:56 PM

Professor Farksworth: [i.imgur.com image 611x263]

Is it too early for this?


Possibly too late.
 
2013-04-05 01:16:56 PM

neongoats: Professor Farksworth: [i.imgur.com image 611x263]

Is it too early for this?

I'm so farking sick of seeing shops of that picture. Every god damned NK thread.


That's why I figured I'd get it out of the way quickly. Now we can move on.

So they're gonna bomb us on April 10th? Remind me to be scared that day.
 
2013-04-05 01:17:17 PM

miss diminutive: Treygreen13: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 484x184]
I SAID THROW DOWN, BOY!

You gonna do something, or just stand there and bleed?


Somebody needs to make a gif of that scene, with Obama and Un. Not me, though. I'm, uhh... too busy.
 
2013-04-05 01:17:31 PM

Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.


Why worry?  On 3 April, Un released some kind of statement about bombing America within the next 24 to 48 hours.  We're all still here midway through 5 April.  So now he's claiming 10 April, because the Norks like doing stuff on the 9th of the money.  After that comes 15 April since that is Il sung's birthday.  We'll just keep getting more and more hollow threats from them.

The South Koreans called it best when they said they expect some kind of minor incident in the near future, like North Korea launching artillery shells at a small island  ROK or something.  If Un really is crazy enough to start a war, I'd rather find out now when our missile defense systems are five or six generations ahead of the POS Nork missiles.  Better than giving Un 20 years in power to modernize his missile command and find out he's crazy enough to hit the big red button.  As it stands he has no missile system that can deliver a nuke (or so the intel agencies claim), so we might as well let him attention whore and make sure he really isn't dumb/crazy enough to press the button.

/plus China is pissed at North Korea, so a war has to happen this isn't the worst time to finish it
//going go to suck for a lot of Koreans though if Un really is that crazy, hopefully he isn't
 
2013-04-05 01:17:51 PM

Lost Thought 00: Short Answer: Because China


don't think china really cares anymore.
 
2013-04-05 01:18:03 PM

Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.


They have a scheduled missile test during that time frame. US and allies will track the missile trajectories, but will only intervene if it poses a threat to anything other than whales. Just like every other one of their missile tests
 
2013-04-05 01:19:03 PM

Forced Perspective: Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.

We're still, legally, in a state of war with North Korea.  They have now threatened our interests.  Why aren't we launching bombing raids now to completely decapitate their command and control?  The lesson of the past decade is that nation-building is hard, but we don't have to do that; bombing their infrastructure (lol) and going home should be more than enough.  Hell, we can even offer sweet buyout packages for North Korean nuclear "scientists."


You're not allowed to just bomb the shait out of other countries and go home anymore.  Then you're just a bully.  You have to "nation build" and help your former enemy back on his feet.  I've always said what we should have done in Afghanistan in 2001 is bombed the shait out of it, rolled in, viciously hunted down some of the more prominent Al-Qaeda cells, snapped the Taliban government like a twig, told whoever was left standing (and the rest of the world) that if something like 9/11 happened again, they'd get it worse, and then have gone home.  no nation building, no foreign aid, just a reminder that farking with Uncle Sugar gets your ass beat.
 
2013-04-05 01:19:34 PM

mr lawson: Lost Thought 00: Short Answer: Because China

don't think china really cares anymore.


Which probably scares NK more than anything else
 
2013-04-05 01:19:55 PM
*SIGH*

Fatty Dingdongs is really fat and he's really agitated. He makes me nervous because I have yogurt with almonds and he might sit on me to get it.
 
2013-04-05 01:20:21 PM

neongoats: Professor Farksworth: [i.imgur.com image 611x263]

Is it too early for this?

I'm so farking sick of seeing shops of that picture. Every god damned NK thread.


Every time I see that picture I hear Thompson's mumble-y drawl in my head. I've been hearing too much of his voice recently.
 
2013-04-05 01:21:10 PM
Wake me when the Russian navy shows up to directly blockade Best Korea.
 
2013-04-05 01:22:02 PM

Lost Thought 00: Which probably scares NK more than anything else


well it SHOULD scare him...but I don't think it does...that's the problem.
/remember Un is only 26 years old. He is a kid
 
2013-04-05 01:23:00 PM

devildog123: Forced Perspective: Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.

We're still, legally, in a state of war with North Korea.  They have now threatened our interests.  Why aren't we launching bombing raids now to completely decapitate their command and control?  The lesson of the past decade is that nation-building is hard, but we don't have to do that; bombing their infrastructure (lol) and going home should be more than enough.  Hell, we can even offer sweet buyout packages for North Korean nuclear "scientists."

You're not allowed to just bomb the shait out of other countries and go home anymore.  Then you're just a bully.  You have to "nation build" and help your former enemy back on his feet.  I've always said what we should have done in Afghanistan in 2001 is bombed the shait out of it, rolled in, viciously hunted down some of the more prominent Al-Qaeda cells, snapped the Taliban government like a twig, told whoever was left standing (and the rest of the world) that if something like 9/11 happened again, they'd get it worse, and then have gone home.  no nation building, no foreign aid, just a reminder that farking with Uncle Sugar gets your ass beat.


It would have been cheaper too.
 
2013-04-05 01:23:09 PM
I like the theory that the Norks, or at least a faction of them that has some sway, are trying to use a war as an end-around to reunification with the South.

The South and China have no desire to take on millions of refugees and billions in modernization costs that would be associated with peacful reunification (way worse than what West Germany had to deal with)...so maybe the Norks are trying to force it.
 
2013-04-05 01:25:09 PM

mr lawson: Lost Thought 00: Short Answer: Because China

don't think china really cares anymore.


Yep NK has officially become China's beligerent drunk friend.  You get there back the first 2-3 times, then after that you kind of want to see them get their asses kicked.
 
2013-04-05 01:25:36 PM
I know NK has a shiat-based economy and no real standing army (or at least a fully equipped/fed/motivated one), but, what if they have spent all their resources, and I mean all of them, to the development of decent nukes? I know it's a far stretch, but if I have experience in one thing, is that when people like Un are in full bravado, it's because they're nuts, or that they have something that can be potentially dangerous.
 
2013-04-05 01:26:37 PM
When April 10 comes and goes with nothing happening, Un gets to tell his people that he stared the SK and US devils in the eye and backed them right down from their plan of agression. Hero.
 
2013-04-05 01:27:51 PM

dallylamma: I like the theory that the Norks, or at least a faction of them that has some sway, are trying to use a war as an end-around to reunification with the South.

The South and China have no desire to take on millions of refugees and billions in modernization costs that would be associated with peacful reunification (way worse than what West Germany had to deal with)...so maybe the Norks are trying to force it.


That is the only rational reason for this line of aggression.
The big question is "Is Un rational?"
Nobody knows.
 
2013-04-05 01:28:29 PM

Evil Mackerel: Wake me when the Russian navy shows up to directly blockade Best Korea.


It's going to take the Russians another century over the ass beating the Japanese handled them at Tsushima.  Right now they still wet themselves in terror at the idea of going anywhere near Korea.
 
2013-04-05 01:29:23 PM
Here we go, a Fark-sized THROW DOWN BOY gif.
i291.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-05 01:29:45 PM
Is it too early for this?

For a reverse home mortgage? It's never too early.
 
2013-04-05 01:31:53 PM

CygnusDarius: I know NK has a shiat-based economy and no real standing army (or at least a fully equipped/fed/motivated one), but, what if they have spent all their resources, and I mean all of them, to the development of decent nukes? I know it's a far stretch, but if I have experience in one thing, is that when people like Un are in full bravado, it's because they're nuts, or that they have something that can be potentially dangerous.


I don't think (most) dictators are actually nuts, and I include this one. It's an act they have to put on to keep the other countries on their toes (not to mention any would-be rebels). Deep down they have some shred of rationality. They do shiat like this to get something from the countries that have real power (or just so they can look tough and in charge to their people), but they don't intend to actually start a war because they know it would be suicide.
 
2013-04-05 01:32:04 PM

Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.


What (sadly) has me concerned:   If NK DOES go and do something stupid on the 10th, I can already hear the Tea Hadists trying to scare up a conspiracy with President Obama's budget release being that same day.   Someone will make that connection, right?

*sigh*
 
2013-04-05 01:32:45 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting sick of this shiat. He's not going to do anything, we KNOW he's not going to do anything.

Yawn.

I'm going to fark off now. Don't wake me up unless War Were Declared.

forums.finalgear.com
 
2013-04-05 01:33:50 PM
Unfortunately, we don't have the nerve to truly win a war. Everything has become political: the world is watching. To win a war, we must go biblical. Crush the enemy's armies, scatter his people, and erase his name from the history books. That's how you win a war.
 
2013-04-05 01:35:30 PM

B.L.Z. Bub: CygnusDarius: I know NK has a shiat-based economy and no real standing army (or at least a fully equipped/fed/motivated one), but, what if they have spent all their resources, and I mean all of them, to the development of decent nukes? I know it's a far stretch, but if I have experience in one thing, is that when people like Un are in full bravado, it's because they're nuts, or that they have something that can be potentially dangerous.

I don't think (most) dictators are actually nuts, and I include this one. It's an act they have to put on to keep the other countries on their toes (not to mention any would-be rebels). Deep down they have some shred of rationality. They do shiat like this to get something from the countries that have real power (or just so they can look tough and in charge to their people), but they don't intend to actually start a war because they know it would be suicide.


Reminds me a bit of how the German government disregarded international sanctions of the time, and churned up the German war machine up to eleven in between WW1 and WW2. The only difference between Germany then and NK now, is that it seems NK has no discernible war industry. It seems, tho.
 
2013-04-05 01:36:06 PM
Link
This is an interesting article. The second comment on it is even more interesting (if true).
 
2013-04-05 01:37:07 PM

slartiblartfast: Unfortunately, we don't have the nerve to truly win a war. Everything has become political: the world is watching. To win a war, we must go biblical. Crush the enemy's armies, scatter his people, and erase his name from the history books. That's how you win a war.


For some people, you'd have to convince every militant to see it your way, and have the American flag flying over a cheering populace with zero civilian casualties to "win" a war.
 
2013-04-05 01:37:41 PM
North Korea tells Brit diplomats to get out - then sets chilling April 10 deadline

Crackpot Kim Jong-un's regime today issued a chilling threat to British diplomats warning them to get out of Pyongyang.
Alarmingly the North Korean government said it would not be able to guarantee the safety of embassies from April 10



Let's see... I'll pencil in war for this Wednesday... that sound about right? How does everyones calendar look?
 
2013-04-05 01:38:20 PM

slartiblartfast: Unfortunately, we don't have the nerve to truly win a war. Everything has become political: the world is watching. To win a war, we must go biblical. Crush the enemy's armies, scatter his people, and erase his name from the history books. That's how you win a war.

The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory.


images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-04-05 01:39:21 PM
I do worry aside of all of this conversation if he and his posse may have simply gone off the deep end.... Its like the JIm Jones cult except with an army of 10 million and an ICBM or two... That is a factor that may be creeping into the Chinese and U.S. dialog in the next few days...
 
2013-04-05 01:40:10 PM

neongoats: Professor Farksworth: [i.imgur.com image 611x263]

Is it too early for this?

I'm so farking sick of seeing shops of that picture. Every god damned NK thread.


i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-05 01:41:24 PM

neversubmit: North Korea tells Brit diplomats to get out - then sets chilling April 10 deadline

Crackpot Kim Jong-un's regime today issued a chilling threat to British diplomats warning them to get out of Pyongyang.
Alarmingly the North Korean government said it would not be able to guarantee the safety of embassies from April 10


Let's see... I'll pencil in war for this Wednesday... that sound about right? How does everyones calendar look?


I have plans that evening, so if you could make sure it happens early/midday, that'd be great. My calendar is free early afternoon, too.
 
2013-04-05 01:41:37 PM

mr lawson: That is the only rational reason for this line of aggression.
The big question is "Is Un rational?"
Nobody knows.


That's a more complicated question than for most other world leaders.  Is he as rational as rational as an ordinarily well informed world leader should be?  Almost certainly not.  Is he as rational as a 27 year old man of average intelligence could be expected to be?  Probably.  But keep in mind that I'd guess the average age of a Farker is somewhere around 27, and the average intelligence of this forum is something above that of the rest of the United States, to say nothing of the world at large.  So being generous, you might expect Jong-Un to behave on par with a run-of-the-mill person in this thread.  Tell me  that doesn't scare the crap out of you.
 
2013-04-05 01:43:42 PM
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
 
2013-04-05 01:44:49 PM
can anyone tell me what the north is protecting and why they think we would want it?

is this just a roaring mouse event? do they want to get decimated so they can get aide and bailed out?
 
2013-04-05 01:46:14 PM

Infernalist: Okay, see...Here's my problem and why I'm now officially nervous.

The NKs are telling everyone to get their embassy people out before the 10th of April.

That denotes a count down of some sort.  Are they setting up a missile launch at some hidden base?

And I've dismissed the idea of there being a chance of a transported bomb out of NK, but...I may be changing my mind on that.

This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.


Which only proves that their silly plan worked - on you.

/bluster
 
2013-04-05 01:47:17 PM
A part of me wonders if this isn't defensive posturing as much as preparing the offense
 
2013-04-05 01:49:02 PM

pdrake: can anyone tell me what the north is protecting and why they think we would want it?

is this just a roaring mouse event? do they want to get decimated so they can get aide and bailed out?


They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.
 
2013-04-05 01:50:27 PM
I think about the only thing they could do worth spit on April 10th is to launch the biggest nuke they have right at japan and have it detonate right offshore from Fukushima.  Just far enough so that it doesn't actually hurt anything but everybodies eyes and ear drums.  Let the radiation settle in with the rest of the radiation and just piss the hell off everybody in Japan.  I think it would be the only way they could "nuke" somebody and not subsequently get invaded.
 
2013-04-05 01:50:48 PM

pdrake: can anyone tell me what the north is protecting and why they think we would want it?

is this just a roaring mouse event? do they want to get decimated so they can get aide and bailed out?


They are sitting on mineral reserves valued between $3-6 trillion USD
 
2013-04-05 01:50:52 PM

p4p3rm4t3: Link
This is an interesting article. The second comment on it is even more interesting (if true).


That is an interesting article.  I just can't figure out what in the hell North Korea hopes it could gain by pushing the peninsula towards war, much less by a civilian terrorist attack.  There is absolutely no upside in this for them that I can see.

Which is a frightening observation in itself, of course, because it's hard to see any rational thought behind what's going on there.
 
2013-04-05 01:53:11 PM

Lost Thought 00: pdrake: can anyone tell me what the north is protecting and why they think we would want it?

is this just a roaring mouse event? do they want to get decimated so they can get aide and bailed out?

They are sitting on mineral reserves valued between $3-6 trillion USD


if that's true couldn't they turn that into gross national product and bring the country out of poverty?
 
2013-04-05 01:54:42 PM

orclover: I think about the only thing they could do worth spit on April 10th is to launch the biggest nuke they have right at japan and have it detonate right offshore from Fukushima.  Just far enough so that it doesn't actually hurt anything but everybodies eyes and ear drums.  Let the radiation settle in with the rest of the radiation and just piss the hell off everybody in Japan.  I think it would be the only way they could "nuke" somebody and not subsequently get invaded.


If they fired a nuke ANYWHERE near another country, they would be destroyed. Even if it just caused one baby to start crying, it would be seen as an act of agression.

You don't fark with nukes, especially when you're viewed as a raving lunatic to the entire rest of the world.
 
2013-04-05 01:55:45 PM

Forced Perspective: Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.

We're still, legally, in a state of war with North Korea.  They have now threatened our interests.  Why aren't we launching bombing raids now to completely decapitate their command and control?  The lesson of the past decade is that nation-building is hard, but we don't have to do that; bombing their infrastructure (lol) and going home should be more than enough.  Hell, we can even offer sweet buyout packages for North Korean nuclear "scientists."

We can avoid rebuilding if we wanted to.



A cobalt bomb renders an entire area uninhabitable for long enough that re-building isn't an option. It's not a good solution but it is a solution.
 
2013-04-05 01:55:55 PM

pdrake: Lost Thought 00: pdrake: can anyone tell me what the north is protecting and why they think we would want it?

is this just a roaring mouse event? do they want to get decimated so they can get aide and bailed out?

They are sitting on mineral reserves valued between $3-6 trillion USD

if that's true couldn't they turn that into gross national product and bring the country out of poverty?


The sanctions against them make it impossible for them to bring it to market, even if they had the technology and capital to mine it efficiently
 
2013-04-05 01:57:19 PM
pdrake  -  I heard they are bringing in shrinks now wondering if he has a similar condition going on over there as what Happened in Waco Texas or Guyana. At what point does a leader who is an anointed god with millions of followers who do what he says or they die... go off the deep end. An apocalypse or war or something becomes a self fulfilling prophesy...


He is David Koresh or Jim Jones except as a head of state...
 
2013-04-05 01:57:31 PM
You don't fark with nukes, especially when you're viewed as a raving lunatic to the entire rest of the world.

Exactly. If he's going to launch one, he'd better launch them all because all those Tomahawks sitting off the coast will take out every military facility in the country.
 
2013-04-05 01:57:34 PM
I'm sick of this drama. Either he needs to go ahead and attack or I'm changing the channel.
 
2013-04-05 01:59:22 PM

mr lawson: dallylamma: I like the theory that the Norks, or at least a faction of them that has some sway, are trying to use a war as an end-around to reunification with the South.

The South and China have no desire to take on millions of refugees and billions in modernization costs that would be associated with peacful reunification (way worse than what West Germany had to deal with)...so maybe the Norks are trying to force it.

That is the only rational reason for this line of aggression.
The big question is "Is Un rational?"
Nobody knows.


If this is turning into a precedent for future behavior, it might well be Un natural.
 
2013-04-05 01:59:52 PM
i understand the sanctions, but with that much potential you'd think a sane person would want to exploit it and do some good for the people and country. a smart leader and diplomat could work with a world council to end the sanctions and broker an agreement with others with the technology to mine it.

i mean china in itself mines most of it's rare earth for the rest of the world.
 
2013-04-05 02:00:49 PM
CygnusDarius: The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory.


What about the lamentations of their women?  Can't really call it a war without some good lamentations now, can you?  Sheesh.  Nobody respects the traditional values any more.
 
2013-04-05 02:03:52 PM

Noekken: CygnusDarius: The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory.


What about the lamentations of their women?  Can't really call it a war without some good lamentations now, can you?  Sheesh.  Nobody respects the traditional values any more.


I think they've had enough lamentations.  As starved as they are I bet they could all find work as supermodels.  They have the bag of antlers figure for it and don't expect to eat much.
 
2013-04-05 02:04:04 PM

Noekken: CygnusDarius: The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory.


What about the lamentations of their women?  Can't really call it a war without some good lamentations now, can you?  Sheesh.  Nobody respects the traditional values any more.


I guess we can nudge a little womanly-crying between their eradication from the world's memory and crushing their achievements utterly.
 
2013-04-05 02:04:09 PM
Ocean? Being a bit optimistic, aren't they?
 
2013-04-05 02:05:33 PM
Since Best Korea's missiles can not reach any of the US mainland except parts of Alaska, perhaps they'll target Sarah Palin's house. 
If she has her shotgun ready and is looking the right direction, she might be able to take it out and become a national hero.

Oh, the more I think about this scenario, the more I agree with Thompson on that carrier.
 
2013-04-05 02:08:05 PM

CygnusDarius: slartiblartfast: Unfortunately, we don't have the nerve to truly win a war. Everything has become political: the world is watching. To win a war, we must go biblical. Crush the enemy's armies, scatter his people, and erase his name from the history books. That's how you win a war.

The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory.

[images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 702x438]


They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give themselves to me.
Like clay I shall mold them and in the furnace of war I shall forge them.
They will be of iron will and steely muscle.
In great armor shall I clad them and with the mightiest gun shall they be armed.
They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them.
They will have tactics, strategies and machines such that no foe will best them in battle.
They are my bulwark against the terror.
They are the defenders of Humanity.
They are my Space Marines...
...and they shall know no fear.'
 
2013-04-05 02:09:59 PM

Lex A. Preau: Since Best Korea's missiles can not reach any of the US mainland except parts of Alaska, perhaps they'll target Sarah Palin's house. 
If she has her shotgun ready and is looking the right direction, she might be able to take it out and become a national hero.

Oh, the more I think about this scenario, the more I agree with Thompson on that carrier.


She's too busy locking eyes with Putin to even see Best Korea's missiles.
 
2013-04-05 02:15:56 PM
I suspect that this is a ploy for him to get the fark out of of best korea in one piece.  All smoke and mirrors...he will end up seeking refuge in China and let the shiathole of a country that he was in charge of rot.
 
2013-04-05 02:16:35 PM

pdrake: i understand the sanctions, but with that much potential you'd think a sane person would want to exploit it and do some good for the people and country. a smart leader and diplomat could work with a world council to end the sanctions and broker an agreement with others with the technology to mine it.

i mean china in itself mines most of it's rare earth for the rest of the world.


China already mines (at least until recently) a lot of minerals from there, but the NK regime puts a lot of restrictions on it (similar to how Venezuela handled their oil reserves). This is pure speculation, but it would not surprise me if the reason China dropped their support of NK is that they feel toppling the current regime would be their quickest path to more mineral access. That access also probably lies behind the US and SK interests in the nation (aside from the whole warmongering part). You can google around for more info, but here's a decent summary of the issues. Link
 
2013-04-05 02:20:48 PM
Nuuu:
That's a more complicated question than for most other world leaders.  Is he as rational as rational as an ordinarily well informed world leader should be?  Almost certainly not.  Is he as rational as a 27 year old man of average intelligence could be expected to be?  Probably.  But keep in mind that I'd guess the average age of a Farker is somewhere around 27, and the average intelligence of this forum is something above that of the rest of the United States, to say nothing of the world at large.  So being generous, you might expect Jong-Un to behave on par with a run-of-the-mill person in this thread.  Tell me  that doesn't scare the crap out of you.

Yes, yes it does.  I hope the Chinese have good psychologists and send one to talk with the kid.
Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie", while feeling around behind you for a large rock.
 
2013-04-05 02:23:15 PM

pdrake: can anyone tell me what the north is protecting and why they think we would want it?

is this just a roaring mouse event? do they want to get decimated so they can get aide and bailed out?


He has to tell his people that America has always been at war with East Asia.
 
2013-04-05 02:24:03 PM
This is called rhetoric.  I, for one, am not very nervous about this.  The North Korean people are brainwashed and believe they have the strongest military in the world.  But their leaders know better.  Kim Jon-un is playing rough, in my opinion, primarily to win favor with his own people.  He's building his brand.  He and his father have always behaved this way.  The difference is that he's taking it farther than ever before, which is why everyone is so nervous.

Crazy or not, at the end of the day, he knows that the consequences of launching a nuclear strike would be something from which his poor country could never recover, and more importantly, he knows that his rule over the land would end. That fear alone should be enough to cause him to back down before this conflict comes to blows.

I preedict that he will back down and then say to the UN, "See, once again, North Korea has made efforts to ease the conflict. Please send us money to feed our people."

I don't wish for the North Korean people to pay the penalty for the stupidity of their leader, but at some point, the international community has to say, "Enough is enough."  I think the only way to change NK without bombing it into the stone ages is to employ economic sanctions so painful that the North Korean people finally wake up and turn on their own government.  The North Korean military needs to stage a coup, overthrow the dictatorship, and then beg the world for humanitarian aid.
 
2013-04-05 02:25:22 PM
stuffershack.com
...crush your enemies - See them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women
 
2013-04-05 02:27:49 PM

p4p3rm4t3: Link
This is an interesting article. The second comment on it is even more interesting (if true).


the post talks about a china MSS operation aimed at removing kim jon un and possibly involving

Hyon Yong Choi

now, if its the same choi as the one in this post
http://open.salon.com/blog/old_new_lefty/2012/07/17/north_korea_what _t he_hell_is_going_on_there

then it means the chinese are stepping in to replace the leadership while keeping NK communist, and avoiding a war.
 
2013-04-05 02:29:00 PM

jonjr215: I don't wish for the North Korean people to pay the penalty for the stupidity of their leader, but at some point, the international community has to say, "Enough is enough."


They've already said that. Because of Un, the rest of the world is tired of their shiat. This won't be a simple case of "Ohhh I was just kidding guys, send some relief please?!" and everything goes back to normal. He's threatened numerous countries with nukes, you don't do that and just get a slap on the wrist.

I imagine if he does decide to back down, it'll come with the full dismantling of anything that can be seen as a threat to other countries, including nuclear program, rocket program, etc.
 
2013-04-05 02:29:09 PM

slartiblartfast: Unfortunately, we don't have the nerve to truly win a war. Everything has become political: the world is watching. To win a war, we must go biblical. Crush the enemy's armies, scatter his people, and erase his name from the history books. That's how you win a war.


While agree with you, the rest of the world and especially CNN and MSNBC don't.

War should be last resort, but it should also be a true final result. You go all in, pound your enemy into dust, then you leave. You Let them pick up the pieces as punishment for starting that shiat in the first place.
 
2013-04-05 02:32:28 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: neongoats: Professor Farksworth: [i.imgur.com image 611x263]

Is it too early for this?

I'm so farking sick of seeing shops of that picture. Every god damned NK thread.

[i49.tinypic.com image 611x263]


Harry Kim?
 
2013-04-05 02:33:47 PM
CygnusDarius: "what if they have spent all their resources, and I mean all of them, to the development of decent nukes?"

What do you mean "what if"?
They have and we know it. That was KJI's play.
 
2013-04-05 02:33:58 PM

neongoats: Professor Farksworth: [i.imgur.com image 611x263]

Is it too early for this?

I'm so farking sick of seeing shops of that picture. Every god damned NK thread.


How about this one...

"It would be well for your government to consider that having your ships and ours, your aircraft and ours, in such proximity... is inherently DANGEROUS. Wars have begun that way, Mr. Ambassador. "

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-05 02:43:54 PM
This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.
 
2013-04-05 02:47:23 PM
Next missile test they try will end with America,South Korea or Japan shooting the missile/s down. That will kick off the whole shebang.

I am almost certain the days of letting them fire off missiles whenever they like are over.
 
2013-04-05 02:48:15 PM

DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.


Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.
 
2013-04-05 02:48:31 PM
The video captioned "Footage has been shown on state television of North Korean President Kim Jong-un watching a military drill" is amazing 1:06. Dude does the ultimate COD dropshot.
 
2013-04-05 02:49:32 PM

orclover: I think about the only thing they could do worth spit on April 10th is to launch the biggest nuke they have right at japan and have it detonate right offshore from Fukushima.  Just far enough so that it doesn't actually hurt anything but everybodies eyes and ear drums.  Let the radiation settle in with the rest of the radiation and just piss the hell off everybody in Japan.  I think it would be the only way they could "nuke" somebody and not subsequently get invaded.


I promise you if they detonate a nuclear device outside their borders that it will be considered an attack and we will respond as such.
 
2013-04-05 02:50:03 PM

the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.


Or how bout I am the only adult here that seems to know history and realize that this is a tremendously BAD idea.
Why don't you go back to playing Call of Duty?
 
2013-04-05 02:53:01 PM

DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

Or how bout I am the only adult here that seems to know history and realize that this is a tremendously BAD idea.
Why don't you go back to playing Call of Duty?


Any argument that begins with "I'm an adult!" is not a good one.
 
2013-04-05 02:55:10 PM

Treygreen13: DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

Or how bout I am the only adult here that seems to know history and realize that this is a tremendously BAD idea.
Why don't you go back to playing Call of Duty?

Any argument that begins with "I'm an adult!" is not a good one.


Agreed.
 
2013-04-05 02:56:21 PM

Noekken: CygnusDarius: The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory.


What about the lamentations of their women?  Can't really call it a war without some good lamentations now, can you?  Sheesh.  Nobody respects the traditional values any more.


son of a biatch that was funny!! lamentations of the women...awesome.
 
2013-04-05 02:57:07 PM

DeathCipris: Treygreen13: DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

Or how bout I am the only adult here that seems to know history and realize that this is a tremendously BAD idea.
Why don't you go back to playing Call of Duty?

Any argument that begins with "I'm an adult!" is not a good one.

Agreed.


I'm talking to both of you.
 
2013-04-05 02:57:20 PM

DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

Or how bout I am the only adult here that seems to know history and realize that this is a tremendously BAD idea.


No you aren't. You would prefer to hide your head in the sand and avoid the real world. He's a crazy dictator threatening countries with nuclear weapons. This isn't Iraq (an unjustified invasion), or the freaking Third Reich (i.e. WORLD WAR II). Nobody is making a move until Un does first.

And honestly the rest of the world is tired of his shiat. Yes some people want him to act, not because they love seeing violence and death, but because he needs to be removed. The whole regime does. He is a threat to international peace.

Now go back to the sandbox.
 
2013-04-05 02:59:30 PM

Lost Thought 00: Link


very interesting

so i guess the only hope the people and country have is political reform. in other words, they're screwed.

it's just a dick wagging contest against previous kims.
 
2013-04-05 03:05:17 PM

DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.


yep.  if war does happen, they will fight to the death.  thousands of US troops will die.  I have relatives and a very close friend within 8 miles of the DMZ.

the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.


pretty easy to be tough on they keyboard, 'eh?  i wonder what your rhetoric would be if you were in harms way.
 
2013-04-05 03:06:24 PM

DeathCipris: Treygreen13: DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

Or how bout I am the only adult here that seems to know history and realize that this is a tremendously BAD idea.
Why don't you go back to playing Call of Duty?

Any argument that begins with "I'm an adult!" is not a good one.

Agreed.


If Fatty Jumbo Twinkies does something, what are we supposed to do?
 
2013-04-05 03:06:55 PM

scottydoesntknow: DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris: 

No you aren't. You would prefer to hide your head in the sand and avoid the real world. He's a crazy dictator threatening countries with nuclear weapons. This isn't Iraq (an unjustified invasion), or the freaking Third Reich (i.e. WORLD WAR II). Nobody is making a move until Un does first.

And honestly the rest of the world is tired of his shiat. Yes some people want him to act, not because they love seeing violence and death, but because he needs to be removed. The whole regime does. He is a threat to international peace.

Now go back to the sandbox.



Thanks. Glad others see that as well.
 
2013-04-05 03:07:41 PM

stir22: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

yep.  if war does happen, they will fight to the death.  thousands of US troops will die.  I have relatives and a very close friend within 8 miles of the DMZ.

the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

pretty easy to be tough on they keyboard, 'eh?  i wonder what your rhetoric would be if you were in harms way.


So, what is to be done if Fatty Swiss Cake Rolls does something beyond talk with his mouth full?
 
2013-04-05 03:08:24 PM

stir22: DeathCipris: 

pretty easy to be tough on they keyboard, 'eh?  i wonder what your rhetoric would be if you were in harms way.


Well when I was it was no different. Now that my nieces and nephews are in that place it has not changed. Yes I do have a personal interest in this event.
 
2013-04-05 03:09:16 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: .

If Fatty Jumbo Twinkies does something, what are we supposed to do?


Uphold our treaty obligations. Nothing more nothing less.
 
2013-04-05 03:11:12 PM

jonjr215: This is called rhetoric. I, for one, am not very nervous about this. The North Korean people are brainwashed and believe they have the strongest military in the world. But their leaders know better. Kim Jon-un is playing rough, in my opinion, primarily to win favor with his own people. He's building his brand. He and his father have always behaved this way. The difference is that he's taking it farther than ever before, which is why everyone is so nervous.

Crazy or not, at the end of the day, he knows that the consequences of launching a nuclear strike would be something from which his poor country could never recover, and more importantly, he knows that his rule over the land would end. That fear alone should be enough to cause him to back down before this conflict comes to blows.


Well, somewhat dangerously for him, if he plays it too crazy, SK might just risk Seoul to be finally rid of the Kims. Their tech/resource advantage may never be stronger than now, and in a war it's a question of how expensive a victory will be rather than if they'll win. They may never get a better chance than now.

France came to regret not smacking Hitler down in the late 1930s.
 
2013-04-05 03:14:05 PM

the lord god: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: .

If Fatty Jumbo Twinkies does something, what are we supposed to do?

Uphold our treaty obligations. Nothing more nothing less.


Exactly. I'm not interested in another war when we're not quite finished with the last two we had, but if he does something, we're obligated to react... so it makes no sense to get all upset that people actually imagine it happening. Its like getting mad at people preparing for a natural disaster because it will cause an earthquake/tornado/hurricane.
 
2013-04-05 03:15:38 PM

scottydoesntknow: DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

Or how bout I am the only adult here that seems to know history and realize that this is a tremendously BAD idea.

No you aren't. You would prefer to hide your head in the sand and avoid the real world. He's a crazy dictator threatening countries with nuclear weapons. This isn't Iraq (an unjustified invasion), or the freaking Third Reich (i.e. WORLD WAR II). Nobody is making a move until Un does first.

And honestly the rest of the world is tired of his shiat. Yes some people want him to act, not because they love seeing violence and death, but because he needs to be removed. The whole regime does. He is a threat to international peace.

Now go back to the sandbox.


Wow, way to go insulting me with more kiddie name-calling crap. Real mature there...

Lemme hit you with some knowledge, wars are expensive...very, very expensive. Unless you want to be thrown right back into the economic dark ages that we are finally starting to get out of, I'd avoid another war.
Un is bad, no argument there. Your line "Yes some people want him to act, not because they love seeing violence and death, but because he needs to be removed." is irrational. People wanting to see him move (and be removed) by taking military action, but profess to not love violence and death is asinine. His action will be to spark another war with the US. I was using the Third Reich as an example of a highly brainwashed populace and the sheer will the people had to defend against a foreign invader. If there was an invasion the urban fighting would be absolutely  brutal. The NK people have been trained to fear and hate the US. I don't want thousands of American soldiers coming home in body bags because of this moron. If he is such a damn international threat, then let the Chinese handle him. We need to stay the hell out of this.

And if you want a decent debate, you should avoid name calling. It weakens your position.
 
2013-04-05 03:18:33 PM
I just read what?
 
2013-04-05 03:21:03 PM

Treygreen13: They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.


I'm going to disagree with you there.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-05 03:23:30 PM
Or maybe the discharge of caustic vapors.
1.bp.blogspot.com
/HA HA HA HA HA
 
2013-04-05 03:23:37 PM

DeathCipris: Lemme hit you with some knowledge, wars are expensive...very, very expensive. Unless you want to be thrown right back into the economic dark ages that we are finally starting to get out of, I'd avoid another war.


*sigh*

There are so many things wrong with that sentence, which is especially disappointing since I agree with the idea.

The "Economic Dark Ages" is such a laughable term, it further casts doubt upon your premise. Further, the idea that military spending puts the economy in that position is even funnier. Consider the same point without all the hyperbole. We don't need to go into North Korea because the cost of lives and equipment is too high. No need for hysterics.
 
2013-04-05 03:24:06 PM
DeathCipris:

 If he is such a damn international threat, then let the Chinese handle him. We need to stay the hell out of this.


And just ignore all the lives given in 50-53? Just ignore our treaty obligations? Ignore the very real threat this man and his nation are to regional peace?

It does not work that way no matter how much you want it to. History also shows isolationism to be a very bad idea for a global superpower.
 
2013-04-05 03:25:05 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: the lord god: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: .

If Fatty Jumbo Twinkies does something, what are we supposed to do?

Uphold our treaty obligations. Nothing more nothing less.

Exactly. I'm not interested in another war when we're not quite finished with the last two we had, but if he does something, we're obligated to react... so it makes no sense to get all upset that people actually imagine it happening. Its like getting mad at people preparing for a natural disaster because it will cause an earthquake/tornado/hurricane.


Being prepared is one thing. I am all for preparation, but relishing having to go over to Korea and waste American/SK lives is disturbing. If we have to go (and we just may due to treaty obligations as previously stated), it isn't something to be jubilant about. That was the reason for my initial statement. A lot of posters here don't seem to realize the overarching effects something like this would have on the US/Global economy, the loss of life on either side of the conflict, and the looming risk of nuclear war should Un get desperate.
 
2013-04-05 03:25:56 PM

DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.


I'm pretty sure they'll welcome us with flowers in the streets.

/always have
 
2013-04-05 03:26:31 PM

the lord god: DeathCipris:

 If he is such a damn international threat, then let the Chinese handle him. We need to stay the hell out of this.


And just ignore all the lives given in 50-53? Just ignore our treaty obligations? Ignore the very real threat this man and his nation are to regional peace?

It does not work that way no matter how much you want it to. History also shows isolationism to be a very bad idea for a global superpower.


Seemed to work well for us up until the early 1900's...
 
2013-04-05 03:26:50 PM

SurelyShirley: Treygreen13: They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.

I'm going to disagree with you there.

[i49.tinypic.com image 203x301]


generickorean.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-05 03:27:31 PM

the lord god: History also shows isolationism to be a very bad idea for a global superpower.


Pfft.. works all the time in my Civ games!
 
2013-04-05 03:27:55 PM

Treygreen13: DeathCipris: Lemme hit you with some knowledge, wars are expensive...very, very expensive. Unless you want to be thrown right back into the economic dark ages that we are finally starting to get out of, I'd avoid another war.

*sigh*

There are so many things wrong with that sentence, which is especially disappointing since I agree with the idea.

The "Economic Dark Ages" is such a laughable term, it further casts doubt upon your premise. Further, the idea that military spending puts the economy in that position is even funnier. Consider the same point without all the hyperbole. We don't need to go into North Korea because the cost of lives and equipment is too high. No need for hysterics.


Alright? My point was made regardless. You seem to disagree with simply the choice of words.
 
2013-04-05 03:27:57 PM

echomike23: SurelyShirley: Treygreen13: They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.

I'm going to disagree with you there.

[i49.tinypic.com image 203x301]

[generickorean.files.wordpress.com image 450x255]


But you can get non-crazy Korean chicks in South Korea!
 
2013-04-05 03:30:07 PM
British diplomats said on Friday the North had asked them to respond by 10 April on what support the embassy would need in the event of any evacuation.


It's pretty wild to hear this side of NK's government. It's so... reasonable. Bordering on "helpful."

Or maybe British courtesy has some sort of "area of affect" aura like Heroes in Warcraft III.
 
2013-04-05 03:30:33 PM

DeathCipris: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: the lord god: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: .

If Fatty Jumbo Twinkies does something, what are we supposed to do?

Uphold our treaty obligations. Nothing more nothing less.

Exactly. I'm not interested in another war when we're not quite finished with the last two we had, but if he does something, we're obligated to react... so it makes no sense to get all upset that people actually imagine it happening. Its like getting mad at people preparing for a natural disaster because it will cause an earthquake/tornado/hurricane.

Being prepared is one thing. I am all for preparation, but relishing having to go over to Korea and waste American/SK lives is disturbing. If we have to go (and we just may due to treaty obligations as previously stated), it isn't something to be jubilant about. That was the reason for my initial statement. A lot of posters here don't seem to realize the overarching effects something like this would have on the US/Global economy, the loss of life on either side of the conflict, and the looming risk of nuclear war should Un get desperate.


Are you new here? Its the internet and this is Fark, you might need to lighten up. You think he has a serviceable nuke? You think that he could sustain a war against SK, US, Chinese AND Russians, along with whatever the UN would scare up? Even Zombie Fidel Castro is unimpressed with Fatty Pants' antics, but you some how think that we're under estimating the dangers of a war after we just spent a decade fighting two? You think you're the only person with a comprehension of what war means to our nation and the world? That's a lot of ego you're sporting. As if the rest of us have never thought initiating a conflict would be a bad idea? OK, superspechul, you're the only one.

Tell me more about your distress over our lack of aversion to stepping in when this jackwagon does something!
 
2013-04-05 03:32:49 PM

DeathCipris: Treygreen13: DeathCipris: Lemme hit you with some knowledge, wars are expensive...very, very expensive. Unless you want to be thrown right back into the economic dark ages that we are finally starting to get out of, I'd avoid another war.

*sigh*

There are so many things wrong with that sentence, which is especially disappointing since I agree with the idea.

The "Economic Dark Ages" is such a laughable term, it further casts doubt upon your premise. Further, the idea that military spending puts the economy in that position is even funnier. Consider the same point without all the hyperbole. We don't need to go into North Korea because the cost of lives and equipment is too high. No need for hysterics.

Alright? My point was made regardless. You seem to disagree with simply the choice of words.


I'm just encouraging you to cool down the rhetoric and people won't jump all over you so much. You can make a solid statement people will agree with if you don't toss around phrases like "Economic Dark Ages" or "Am I the only person here who understands what's going on?!"

To address your assertion that I only disagree with the choice of words - no, that's not entirely true. I don't think we can make a decision to go to war based on whether or not it will be costly to us. All war is costly. But if somebody is threatening us or our allies, it has to be an option. Why even have a large military with a global presence if some 2-bit despot threatens to nuke us and we need to consult our accountant to determine if it's a good idea or not?
 
2013-04-05 03:34:16 PM

DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris:

 If he is such a damn international threat, then let the Chinese handle him. We need to stay the hell out of this.


And just ignore all the lives given in 50-53? Just ignore our treaty obligations? Ignore the very real threat this man and his nation are to regional peace?

It does not work that way no matter how much you want it to. History also shows isolationism to be a very bad idea for a global superpower.

Seemed to work well for us up until the early 1900's...


a very bad idea for a global superpower
 
2013-04-05 03:35:24 PM

DeathCipris: Wow, way to go insulting me with more kiddie name-calling crap. Real mature there...


DeathCipris: And if you want a decent debate, you should avoid name calling. It weakens your position.


You're going to need to point out where I called you a name.

I accused you of hiding your head in the sand, which you are (not literally of course, it's a figurative term).

And then I told you to back to the sandbox, where you could continue to hide your head (again, figuratively).
 
2013-04-05 03:40:33 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: DeathCipris: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: the lord god: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: .

If Fatty Jumbo Twinkies does something, what are we supposed to do?

Uphold our treaty obligations. Nothing more nothing less.

Exactly. I'm not interested in another war when we're not quite finished with the last two we had, but if he does something, we're obligated to react... so it makes no sense to get all upset that people actually imagine it happening. Its like getting mad at people preparing for a natural disaster because it will cause an earthquake/tornado/hurricane.

Being prepared is one thing. I am all for preparation, but relishing having to go over to Korea and waste American/SK lives is disturbing. If we have to go (and we just may due to treaty obligations as previously stated), it isn't something to be jubilant about. That was the reason for my initial statement. A lot of posters here don't seem to realize the overarching effects something like this would have on the US/Global economy, the loss of life on either side of the conflict, and the looming risk of nuclear war should Un get desperate.

Are you new here? Its the internet and this is Fark, you might need to lighten up. You think he has a serviceable nuke? You think that he could sustain a war against SK, US, Chinese AND Russians, along with whatever the UN would scare up? Even Zombie Fidel Castro is unimpressed with Fatty Pants' antics, but you some how think that we're under estimating the dangers of a war after we just spent a decade fighting two? You think you're the only person with a comprehension of what war means to our nation and the world? That's a lot of ego you're sporting. As if the rest of us have never thought initiating a conflict would be a bad idea? OK, superspechul, you're the only one.

Tell me more about your distress over our lack of aversion to stepping in when this jackwagon does something!


I truly don't give two flying rat turds what anyone here thinks. I highly doubt the people that actually make any of these decision regarding the NK situation sit here on Fark.
I never suggested he could win or much less sustain a war with the "Allies." I said it would costs a great deal of money and lives.
And yes, I do believe certain people in this thread seem to think that it will be a walk in the park invasion. It is becoming apparent you aren't one of them. If I am correct and you aren't one of the people posting all this military porn about how 'Merica should go in there and kick his ass, then none of this was directed at you from the start.
 
2013-04-05 03:41:37 PM

BigNumber12: It's pretty wild to hear this side of NK's government. It's so... reasonable. Bordering on "helpful."


I think perhaps it because the phrasing was filtered through the Brit diplomats.  It may have started something like "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out," and been reported as "the North Koreans offered valuable information and assistance for our evacuation."
 
2013-04-05 03:42:44 PM

scottydoesntknow: DeathCipris: Wow, way to go insulting me with more kiddie name-calling crap. Real mature there...

DeathCipris: And if you want a decent debate, you should avoid name calling. It weakens your position.

You're going to need to point out where I called you a name.

I accused you of hiding your head in the sand, which you are (not literally of course, it's a figurative term).

And then I told you to back to the sandbox, where you could continue to hide your head (again, figuratively).


My apologies then, I thought you were referring to the child's sandbox toy.
 
2013-04-05 03:43:17 PM
Looks like we are going to war.

U.S. amassing B-1 strategic bombers near North Korea

But, for the first time in the last few weeks, the deployment of the "Bones" to the Pacific atoll was not made public (at least, not yet), a fact that could be the sign that the U.S. is not only making symbolic moves (as the above mentioned ones), but it is preparing for the worst scenario: an attack on North Korea.
 
2013-04-05 03:44:28 PM

The WindowLicker: BigNumber12: It's pretty wild to hear this side of NK's government. It's so... reasonable. Bordering on "helpful."

I think perhaps it because the phrasing was filtered through the Brit diplomats.  It may have started something like "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out," and been reported as "the North Koreans offered valuable information and assistance for our evacuation."


I love those guys.
 
2013-04-05 03:46:52 PM

DeathCipris: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: DeathCipris: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: the lord god: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: .

If Fatty Jumbo Twinkies does something, what are we supposed to do?

Uphold our treaty obligations. Nothing more nothing less.

Exactly. I'm not interested in another war when we're not quite finished with the last two we had, but if he does something, we're obligated to react... so it makes no sense to get all upset that people actually imagine it happening. Its like getting mad at people preparing for a natural disaster because it will cause an earthquake/tornado/hurricane.

Being prepared is one thing. I am all for preparation, but relishing having to go over to Korea and waste American/SK lives is disturbing. If we have to go (and we just may due to treaty obligations as previously stated), it isn't something to be jubilant about. That was the reason for my initial statement. A lot of posters here don't seem to realize the overarching effects something like this would have on the US/Global economy, the loss of life on either side of the conflict, and the looming risk of nuclear war should Un get desperate.

Are you new here? Its the internet and this is Fark, you might need to lighten up. You think he has a serviceable nuke? You think that he could sustain a war against SK, US, Chinese AND Russians, along with whatever the UN would scare up? Even Zombie Fidel Castro is unimpressed with Fatty Pants' antics, but you some how think that we're under estimating the dangers of a war after we just spent a decade fighting two? You think you're the only person with a comprehension of what war means to our nation and the world? That's a lot of ego you're sporting. As if the rest of us have never thought initiating a conflict would be a bad idea? OK, superspechul, you're the only one.

Tell me more about your distress over our lack of aversion to stepping in when this jackwagon does something!

I truly don't give two flying rat turds what anyone here thinks. I highly ...


You would be correct, I am not riding the Kill'em All Dead, Liberate the Shiat Outta Them, Military Might FAPathon, but I think you're going a bit overboard when you ride a derpopotamus into the party asking if you're the only one who understands the cost of war. No one here ever claimed to be from the pentagon, but don't come and shiat on their party to try to be the voice of reason. In case you missed it, we've had 2+ threads A DAY on the Main page for the last two weeks about Norks. We're all getting a little restless. We need more nuclear capable B-2s in SK, some more Aegis-equipped stuff in the region in order to dial down the war cries of the interwebs.

Just slow down, back away and say, "I'm not interested in the FAPathon, this is not my cup of tea." Do we need a redhead thread for you? A Lululemon see-through yoga pants thread? What is your speed/what else would you like to rail against to take your mind off this thread?
 
2013-04-05 03:47:00 PM

Treygreen13: echomike23: SurelyShirley: Treygreen13: They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.

I'm going to disagree with you there.

[i49.tinypic.com image 203x301]

[generickorean.files.wordpress.com image 450x255]

But you can get non-crazy Korean chicks in South Korea!


yea but still
generickorean.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-05 03:47:34 PM

DeathCipris: scottydoesntknow: DeathCipris: Wow, way to go insulting me with more kiddie name-calling crap. Real mature there...

DeathCipris: And if you want a decent debate, you should avoid name calling. It weakens your position.

You're going to need to point out where I called you a name.

I accused you of hiding your head in the sand, which you are (not literally of course, it's a figurative term).

And then I told you to back to the sandbox, where you could continue to hide your head (again, figuratively).

My apologies then, I thought you were referring to the child's sandbox toy.


Hey no problem, and sorry if I came across as hostile. I'm the last person that actually wants to see lives lost, but he's pushing it past a point where it can't be ignored (threatening nations with nuclear weapons is one foot in the moral event horizon, the other foot actually involves firing them).

I don't want you to think that everyone here is bloodthirsty, most of them are just tired of hearing this crap coming from Un. Unfortunately, his constant threats are about to break the camel's back.
 
2013-04-05 03:48:45 PM

Treygreen13: DeathCipris: Treygreen13: DeathCipris: Lemme hit you with some knowledge, wars are expensive...very, very expensive. Unless you want to be thrown right back into the economic dark ages that we are finally starting to get out of, I'd avoid another war.

*sigh*

There are so many things wrong with that sentence, which is especially disappointing since I agree with the idea.

The "Economic Dark Ages" is such a laughable term, it further casts doubt upon your premise. Further, the idea that military spending puts the economy in that position is even funnier. Consider the same point without all the hyperbole. We don't need to go into North Korea because the cost of lives and equipment is too high. No need for hysterics.

Alright? My point was made regardless. You seem to disagree with simply the choice of words.

I'm just encouraging you to cool down the rhetoric and people won't jump all over you so much. You can make a solid statement people will agree with if you don't toss around phrases like "Economic Dark Ages" or "Am I the only person here who understands what's going on?!"


Fair enough.

To address your assertion that I only disagree with the choice of words - no, that's not entirely true. I don't think we can make a decision to go to war based on whether or not it will be costly to us. All war is costly. But if somebody is threatening us or our allies, it has to be an option. Why even have a large military with a global presence if some 2-bit despot threatens to nuke us and we need to consult our accountant to determine if it's a good idea or not?


It is an option, not only that, but an obligation due to our treaty we have with the South. I was addressing the people here going on about how 'Merica should go in there and take out Un, like it would be quick in and out. I pointed out it would be a tremendously bad idea, which I am still sticking to. The comment about the US military addresses a larger value, which is I believe we don't need as large of a military as we have. Why should it be the sole responsibility of the US to play world police?
 
2013-04-05 03:49:28 PM

scottydoesntknow: DeathCipris: scottydoesntknow: DeathCipris: Wow, way to go insulting me with more kiddie name-calling crap. Real mature there...

DeathCipris: And if you want a decent debate, you should avoid name calling. It weakens your position.

You're going to need to point out where I called you a name.

I accused you of hiding your head in the sand, which you are (not literally of course, it's a figurative term).

And then I told you to back to the sandbox, where you could continue to hide your head (again, figuratively).

My apologies then, I thought you were referring to the child's sandbox toy.

Hey no problem, and sorry if I came across as hostile. I'm the last person that actually wants to see lives lost, but he's pushing it past a point where it can't be ignored (threatening nations with nuclear weapons is one foot in the moral event horizon, the other foot actually involves firing them).

I don't want you to think that everyone here is bloodthirsty, most of them are just tired of hearing this crap coming from Un. Unfortunately, his constant threats are about to break the camel's back.


Amaneedadinnerjacket is going to be really mad if Kim keeps getting all the Crazy Pants attention AND breaks a camels back...
 
2013-04-05 03:50:06 PM
The Brits aren't leaving but the Russians are getting ready to.

North Korea ultimatum: Britain WILL NOT leave after being given 5 days to evacuate embassy

Last night, the British Foreign Office confirmed it had been told its staff were at risk while Russia said it was in 'close contact with the U.S, China and South Korea' about airlifting workers out.
 
2013-04-05 03:50:21 PM

neversubmit: Looks like we are going to war.

U.S. amassing B-1 strategic bombers near North Korea

But, for the first time in the last few weeks, the deployment of the "Bones" to the Pacific atoll was not made public (at least, not yet), a fact that could be the sign that the U.S. is not only making symbolic moves (as the above mentioned ones), but it is preparing for the worst scenario: an attack on North Korea.


---

"Late last night I monitored "DARK flight of seven" on PRIME (311.000 MHZ STRATCOM PRIMARY) asking for current weather for UAM [airport code for Guam - Andersen Air Force Base]. On the frequency of 251.100 Mhz,DARK flight also was calling for "GASSR 11 and GASSR 12″ for "Tanker drag to BAB [Beale AFB, California]".

God... that sort of talk makes my heart race.
 
2013-04-05 03:51:06 PM

The Bestest: the lord god: History also shows isolationism to be a very bad idea for a global superpower.

Pfft.. works all the time in my Civ games!


Ghandi and Stalin are assholes!!
 
2013-04-05 03:52:26 PM
deathcipris -
    hi - and a happy friday to you - been reading your - all - posts

    let me say, as an american, i take a perverse pride in our military and have long tried to reconcile the sheer joy of being "strong/fast/deadly" in battle against what is in my heart and mind about "war is evil/innocent people die horribly/it is a national burden"   -  both of these things are true

   its entirely possible to believe this potential conflict might be "a cake walk" for us (by posters who obviously have served) and to know that it will be devastating to a populace held captive by a foolish leader.

   no, you are not "the only one" - but - things will unfold how they will. Much as you said no one here gives military orders - well, no one can demand peaceful inaction here, either.
 
2013-04-05 03:53:07 PM

DeathCipris: The comment about the US military addresses a larger value, which is I believe we don't need as large of a military as we have. Why should it be the sole responsibility of the US to play world police?


It shouldn't be, really. But at the same time the U.S. is *already in* South Korea in large numbers, and we have a strong interest in making sure that our 28,500 troops stationed there aren't incinerated in a nuclear or conventional blast. Not to mention the South Korean civilians.

I agree that the whole world isn't our responsibility.
 
2013-04-05 03:53:23 PM
Never thought I would say this, but I think I actually learned something here in a Fark comment thread today.

Thanks Treygreen13 and ImpatientlyUnsympathetic

/srsly, no sarcasm
 
2013-04-05 03:54:42 PM

BigNumber12: God... that sort of talk makes my heart race.


Could you translate it for us? I don't get it.
 
2013-04-05 03:56:29 PM

DeathCipris: Never thought I would say this, but I think I actually learned something here in a Fark comment thread today.

Thanks Treygreen13 and ImpatientlyUnsympathetic

/srsly, no sarcasm


I know how it can be. You deal with people who are way over-dramatic all the time, so you begin to respond the same way. Then everyone starts coming at you from every direction and then next thing you know you're in a shouting match with 2 people and everyone else thinks you're the problem.
 
2013-04-05 03:57:29 PM

the lord god: The Bestest: the lord god: History also shows isolationism to be a very bad idea for a global superpower.

Pfft.. works all the time in my Civ games!

Ghandi and Stalin are assholes!!


I just wait for global warming and re-found my nation on New Arctic Rectangularland.
 
2013-04-05 04:00:05 PM

echomike23: Treygreen13: echomike23: SurelyShirley: Treygreen13: They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.

I'm going to disagree with you there.

[i49.tinypic.com image 203x301]

[generickorean.files.wordpress.com image 450x255]

But you can get non-crazy Korean chicks in South Korea!

yea but still
[generickorean.files.wordpress.com image 450x255]


If they don't have any food how are they going to make you a sandwich?

/ducks
 
2013-04-05 04:00:22 PM

Treygreen13: DeathCipris: The comment about the US military addresses a larger value, which is I believe we don't need as large of a military as we have. Why should it be the sole responsibility of the US to play world police?

It shouldn't be, really. But at the same time the U.S. is *already in* South Korea in large numbers, and we have a strong interest in making sure that our 28,500 troops stationed there aren't incinerated in a nuclear or conventional blast. Not to mention the South Korean civilians.

I agree that the whole world isn't our responsibility.


Yea, we have had a presence in the region...well since the Korean war and this situation has more dynamics to it than the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Treaty for mutual protection, confirmed nuclear weapons, crazy brainwashed citizens, etc.
I hope the dumb twat in NK just backs down and this doesn't escalate any further. I just don't want to see my family members and friends shot in another country because of this asswipe. I will admit, I have a personal stake in the situation...I guess maybe I took it to heart.
 
2013-04-05 04:01:34 PM

echomike23: Treygreen13: echomike23: SurelyShirley: Treygreen13: They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.

I'm going to disagree with you there.

[i49.tinypic.com image 203x301]

[generickorean.files.wordpress.com image 450x255]

But you can get non-crazy Korean chicks in South Korea!

yea but still
[generickorean.files.wordpress.com image 450x255]


As my wife will swear to, there is no such thing as a non-crazy Korean chick.

/Married a Korean chick
//Oy vey
 
2013-04-05 04:02:00 PM

parasol: deathcipris -
    hi - and a happy friday to you - been reading your - all - posts

    let me say, as an american, i take a perverse pride in our military and have long tried to reconcile the sheer joy of being "strong/fast/deadly" in battle against what is in my heart and mind about "war is evil/innocent people die horribly/it is a national burden"   -  both of these things are true

   its entirely possible to believe this potential conflict might be "a cake walk" for us (by posters who obviously have served) and to know that it will be devastating to a populace held captive by a foolish leader.

   no, you are not "the only one" - but - things will unfold how they will. Much as you said no one here gives military orders - well, no one can demand peaceful inaction here, either.


THIS

let all at the least step back for a second and remind ourselves that this...is FARK.

oh and to lighten the mood may i present a korean cake

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-05 04:03:39 PM

echomike23: parasol: deathcipris -
    hi - and a happy friday to you - been reading your - all - posts

    let me say, as an american, i take a perverse pride in our military and have long tried to reconcile the sheer joy of being "strong/fast/deadly" in battle against what is in my heart and mind about "war is evil/innocent people die horribly/it is a national burden"   -  both of these things are true

   its entirely possible to believe this potential conflict might be "a cake walk" for us (by posters who obviously have served) and to know that it will be devastating to a populace held captive by a foolish leader.

   no, you are not "the only one" - but - things will unfold how they will. Much as you said no one here gives military orders - well, no one can demand peaceful inaction here, either.

THIS

let all at the least step back for a second and remind ourselves that this...is FARK.

oh and to lighten the mood may i present a korean cake

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x375]


They have CAKE!? I thought that's what this shiat was all about?
 
2013-04-05 04:04:30 PM
both sides lose


www.hindustantimes.com
 
2013-04-05 04:05:00 PM

DeathCipris: Never thought I would say this, but I think I actually learned something here in a Fark comment thread today.

Thanks Treygreen13 and ImpatientlyUnsympathetic

/srsly, no sarcasm


*HIGHFIVE*

In all seriousness: My brother is in the Army Reserves after several years of active duty. By some stroke of luck, he was not deployed to either of our active conflicts while he was active duty. He was also at Fort Hood, less than a block away from where the mass shooting happened. I am tired of worrying about him. He has a baby on the way and a 1 year old. I'd much rather settle everything down and not go to war while he or anyone else I know is in the military, but I think we're slowly losing hope that Un is going to settle down.

I cope by making fun of Kim Jong-Un's appearance. I like add nasty arse faux dessert foods to his name and intentionally overlook the fact that he could start something that my brother and our military could be called in to resolve.

Also, I read all these threads to get reassurance that KJU is not capable of reaching Seattle with a missile. I like when people insist it could never happen. Its like all of you are pretending to be my husband and telling me, "no, no of course that can't happen!" The other day, while we were playing soccer together, my husband assured me that he considers his parents' home a very defensible location should Red Dawn actually happen. And he said he'd take care of retrieving the dogs from our place so that we can rendez vous at his parents in the event that he's at school and I'm at work when Armageddon happens.

/bet everyone just sighed with relief not to be married to me.
//I do laundry, cook, bake and make money, I swear I am a catch.
///I play soccer with him so he can tell me how we'll survive zombie apocalypse and other imaginary disasters.
 
2013-04-05 04:05:31 PM
Could you translate it for us? I don't get it.

I don't get it either and I used to work on Tankers. Why would they be calling for weather at Guam if they're headed to Beale? They're almost on opposite sides of the planet. But, the fact that there's a flight of 7 B-1s headed anywhere is significant. Also telling is that they launched a pair of E-6s which are used to communicate with submarines that are deeply submerged.

Someone is sending Best korea a very strong message.
 
2013-04-05 04:05:40 PM

DeathCipris: Treygreen13: DeathCipris: The comment about the US military addresses a larger value, which is I believe we don't need as large of a military as we have. Why should it be the sole responsibility of the US to play world police?

It shouldn't be, really. But at the same time the U.S. is *already in* South Korea in large numbers, and we have a strong interest in making sure that our 28,500 troops stationed there aren't incinerated in a nuclear or conventional blast. Not to mention the South Korean civilians.

I agree that the whole world isn't our responsibility.

Yea, we have had a presence in the region...well since the Korean war and this situation has more dynamics to it than the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Treaty for mutual protection, confirmed nuclear weapons, crazy brainwashed citizens, etc.
I hope the dumb twat in NK just backs down and this doesn't escalate any further. I just don't want to see my family members and friends shot in another country because of this asswipe. I will admit, I have a personal stake in the situation...I guess maybe I took it to heart.


I can't speak for everyone here, but I think most of us (even the fark yeah murikah crowd) have a personal interest in it. My best friend is currently in the Army stationed in Kuwait, but you know that if things went really bad really fast he'd be one of the guys shipping off for North Korea. I don't want him over there, I'd rather him hang out in Kuwait where nobody is trying to kill him.
 
2013-04-05 04:09:03 PM

pdrake: both sides lose


[www.hindustantimes.com image 650x1071]


This graphic was already discussed (about how it's misleading) in the last thread (before that thread completely devolved into an argument over the definition of "decimate").
 
2013-04-05 04:11:45 PM
We should answer their strongly-worded threats with a strongly-worded letter.
 
2013-04-05 04:11:51 PM

pdrake: both sides lose


Quality has a quantity of its own. With our unmatched air superiority, their soldiers, tanks, and artillery are sitting ducks. The A-10s alone will haunt the nightmares of the survivors for the rest of their lives. (See also: the highway of death circa 1991).
 
2013-04-05 04:12:13 PM

The Bestest: pdrake: both sides lose


[www.hindustantimes.com image 650x1071]

This graphic was already discussed (about how it's misleading) in the last thread (before that thread completely devolved into an argument over the definition of "decimate").


And this is why we have to have at least 2 Norks threads a day. We can't simply keep one thread from devolving, so we double down and start multiple so that people who can't wade through the Nazis of grammar, word choice and poorly chosen sources can chat about it.
 
2013-04-05 04:12:58 PM

CygnusDarius: I know NK has a shiat-based economy and no real standing army (or at least a fully equipped/fed/motivated one), but, what if they have spent all their resources, and I mean all of them, to the development of decent nukes? I know it's a far stretch, but if I have experience in one thing, is that when people like Un are in full bravado, it's because they're nuts, or that they have something that can be potentially dangerous.


The difficulty isn't in acquiring enough resources to build a nuclear weapon, the difficulty is in knowing how to build the weapon and having a sufficient industrial capacity to do so. This is something that you can't rush with money. The academic journey towards a nuclear bomb started in 1898 with the Curies, and it wasn't for another 40 or so years that someone dreamed up the idea of an atomic bomb. It took another 15-20 years to build the first prototypes, and then decades more of research to build the truly terrifying modern bombs that can literally wipe out a city.

On top of this, a nuclear bomb would significantly hampered in destructive power without a suitable delivery system. For maximum damage, the bomb should be detonated some distance above the target. North Korea lacks the scientific and industrial ability to build reliable missiles capable of such a feat, and there's no way in hell they get to fly planes over other countries at this point. Their only feasible option would be that of a covert nuke detonated offshore or at ground-level in a city.

Two things: first, it's extremely unlikely that they could pull this off. For it to help them at all, they'd have to do it TWICE, because there's no point to exploding one city. They would need at least two nukes, so they can detonate one to show it's possible, and then use the other one as leverage. This is the exact same reason we dropped TWO bombs on Japan, because one doesn't cut it.

Second, assume they have an early nuclear weapon, they have claimed they have conducted successful nuclear tests, but outside monitoring agencies estimate the total yield at something like 8-9 Kilotons of TNT (for comparison, the first US test at Trinity had a yield of 20Kt, which is 60-year old technology by our standards). The Trinity test was essentially conducted at ground level, and it made a crater 10 feet deep and about 1000 feet wide. An NK bomb would be about half as powerful- pressure effects would cause damage significantly past the crater, for sure, but in the grand scheme of things, it would not be a terribly destructive event. You could conceivably take out something like downtown Manhattan  but you're not going to destroy New York.
 
2013-04-05 04:13:32 PM
impatiently - in all seriousness: My brother is in the Army Reserves after several years of active duty. By some stroke of luck, he was not deployed to either of our active conflicts while he was active duty. He was also at Fort Hood, less than a block away from where the mass shooting happened. I am tired of worrying about him.

  I can't cope by making fun of un's appearance - i cope by knowing there are sane people in the world and that he appears to be fundamentally weak. I've begun to wish him the sleepless nights of worried wives.
  Also have someone potentially in harm's way - it's funny how many of us "do" (cook, nuture, create, earn) with what is a constant wary eye.

  I have the eye/hand coordination of a two year old so, soccer, not so much
 
2013-04-05 04:14:55 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: We should answer their strongly-worded threats with a strongly-worded letter.


I think we're speaking in code now, aren't we?
 
2013-04-05 04:16:24 PM
another Nork thread?
man, I'm running out of material here
gimme a minute
 
2013-04-05 04:17:12 PM

Treygreen13: BigNumber12: God... that sort of talk makes my heart race.

Could you translate it for us? I don't get it.


I only really have a little more than a layperson's understanding of such things, plus what he explains in the article. What appears to be a large number of supersonic, swing-wing, strategic bombers flying together to Guam, asking for mid-air refueling along the way, and inquiring about the weather on the other side of the planet. Just... a remarkable mental image, the things we're capable of now. Unimaginable to someone 150 years ago. I love this shiat.
 
2013-04-05 04:17:36 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: DeathCipris: Never thought I would say this, but I think I actually learned something here in a Fark comment thread today.

Thanks Treygreen13 and ImpatientlyUnsympathetic

/srsly, no sarcasm

*HIGHFIVE*

In all seriousness: My brother is in the Army Reserves after several years of active duty. By some stroke of luck, he was not deployed to either of our active conflicts while he was active duty. He was also at Fort Hood, less than a block away from where the mass shooting happened. I am tired of worrying about him. He has a baby on the way and a 1 year old. I'd much rather settle everything down and not go to war while he or anyone else I know is in the military, but I think we're slowly losing hope that Un is going to settle down.

I cope by making fun of Kim Jong-Un's appearance. I like add nasty arse faux dessert foods to his name and intentionally overlook the fact that he could start something that my brother and our military could be called in to resolve.

Also, I read all these threads to get reassurance that KJU is not capable of reaching Seattle with a missile. I like when people insist it could never happen. Its like all of you are pretending to be my husband and telling me, "no, no of course that can't happen!" The other day, while we were playing soccer together, my husband assured me that he considers his parents' home a very defensible location should Red Dawn actually happen. And he said he'd take care of retrieving the dogs from our place so that we can rendez vous at his parents in the event that he's at school and I'm at work when Armageddon happens.

/bet everyone just sighed with relief not to be married to me.
//I do laundry, cook, bake and make money, I swear I am a catch.
///I play soccer with him so he can tell me how we'll survive zombie apocalypse and other imaginary disasters.


Haha, sometimes I like to make up pretend zombie apocalypse scenarios too.
 
2013-04-05 04:18:47 PM
regardless of the accuracy of the graphic, the NK military leaders will still consider their troops cannon fodder.
 
2013-04-05 04:20:18 PM

parasol: impatiently - in all seriousness: My brother is in the Army Reserves after several years of active duty. By some stroke of luck, he was not deployed to either of our active conflicts while he was active duty. He was also at Fort Hood, less than a block away from where the mass shooting happened. I am tired of worrying about him.

  I can't cope by making fun of un's appearance - i cope by knowing there are sane people in the world and that he appears to be fundamentally weak. I've begun to wish him the sleepless nights of worried wives.
  Also have someone potentially in harm's way - it's funny how many of us "do" (cook, nuture, create, earn) with what is a constant wary eye.

  I have the eye/hand coordination of a two year old so, soccer, not so much


My husband is amazingly fit and can chase a soccer ball much farther than I can kick it, so a lack of coordination is not such a problem.

At least I keep my worrying at bed time to a minimum.... I'm a night owl and he's a morning person, he's tired enough by bedtime that I can't really bend his ear then. I wait to tell him about all the Duplo I ordered my niece when he's good and tired...
 
2013-04-05 04:27:26 PM

pdrake: both sides lose


[www.hindustantimes.com image 650x1071]


A cool graphic, but... severely misleading, as has already been mentioned. When one tank can hit another from well outside of its range, and the other would probably struggle even to penetrate the opposing's armor, you can't really compare the two in terms of numbers. Look at Gulf War 1... their tanks frequently couldn't even see what it was that was killing them. Our biggest headache was Friendly Fire.

And that doesn't even begin to address cross-column interaction. We could have no tanks, and theirs would still be sitting ducks if they tried to move around with aircraft on the prowl.

They money we pump into advancing our military tech... it means a lot when the adversary is basically frozen in time.

Also - while they run the same drills for decades on end, we've been learning hard lessons in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we've been adapting.
 
2013-04-05 04:41:44 PM

pdrake: both sides lose


The US managed a 1000:1 tank kill ratio in Desert Storm. That conflict is clearly not comparable, (the coalition outnumbered the Iraqis significantly), but consider something like the Six Days War between Israel and all their neighbors. Israel sustained something like 1000 deaths and caused something like 20,000.

The North Korean military doesn't even begin to approach a 20 or 30 to 1 force disparity. Their troops are woefully undersupplied, uneducated, and untrained. (For example, North Korea only has enough aviation fuel to give it's pilots a "handful" of flight hours every year, simply because they are too poor to afford adequate aviation fuel.) Taking these factors, along with others, you can estimate the *effective* force that North Korea is able to field is somewhere in the ballpark of 25-30% of their stated numerical strength.

The Conventional Military Balance on the Korean Peninsula:
http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-dossiers/north-korean-dos si er/north-koreas-weapons-programmes-a-net-asses/the-conventional-milita ry-balance-on-the-kore/
 
2013-04-05 04:43:14 PM

Fubini: pdrake: both sides lose

The US managed a 1000:1 tank kill ratio in Desert Storm. That conflict is clearly not comparable, (the coalition outnumbered the Iraqis significantly), but consider something like the Six Days War between Israel and all their neighbors. Israel sustained something like 1000 deaths and caused something like 20,000.

The North Korean military doesn't even begin to approach a 20 or 30 to 1 force disparity. Their troops are woefully undersupplied, uneducated, and untrained. (For example, North Korea only has enough aviation fuel to give it's pilots a "handful" of flight hours every year, simply because they are too poor to afford adequate aviation fuel.) Taking these factors, along with others, you can estimate the *effective* force that North Korea is able to field is somewhere in the ballpark of 25-30% of their stated numerical strength.

The Conventional Military Balance on the Korean Peninsula:
http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-dossiers/north-korean-dos si er/north-koreas-weapons-programmes-a-net-asses/the-conventional-milita ry-balance-on-the-kore/


Oh yeah, just wait until they convert their jets to run on woodgas.
 
2013-04-05 04:50:48 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Fubini: pdrake: both sides lose

The US managed a 1000:1 tank kill ratio in Desert Storm. That conflict is clearly not comparable, (the coalition outnumbered the Iraqis significantly), but consider something like the Six Days War between Israel and all their neighbors. Israel sustained something like 1000 deaths and caused something like 20,000.

The North Korean military doesn't even begin to approach a 20 or 30 to 1 force disparity. Their troops are woefully undersupplied, uneducated, and untrained. (For example, North Korea only has enough aviation fuel to give it's pilots a "handful" of flight hours every year, simply because they are too poor to afford adequate aviation fuel.) Taking these factors, along with others, you can estimate the *effective* force that North Korea is able to field is somewhere in the ballpark of 25-30% of their stated numerical strength.

The Conventional Military Balance on the Korean Peninsula:
http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-dossiers/north-korean-dos si er/north-koreas-weapons-programmes-a-net-asses/the-conventional-milita ry-balance-on-the-kore/

Oh yeah, just wait until they convert their jets to run on woodgas.


Heh, it says in there somewhere that the NK infantry units have their own livestock and gardens in order to supplement their food supplies, so you might not be that far off.
 
2013-04-05 04:54:15 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: stir22: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

yep.  if war does happen, they will fight to the death.  thousands of US troops will die.  I have relatives and a very close friend within 8 miles of the DMZ.

the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

pretty easy to be tough on they keyboard, 'eh?  i wonder what your rhetoric would be if you were in harms way.

So, what is to be done if Fatty Swiss Cake Rolls does something beyond talk with his mouth full?


respond.  with the full force, might and fury of the armed forces.
 
2013-04-05 04:56:03 PM

stir22: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: stir22: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

yep.  if war does happen, they will fight to the death.  thousands of US troops will die.  I have relatives and a very close friend within 8 miles of the DMZ.

the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

pretty easy to be tough on they keyboard, 'eh?  i wonder what your rhetoric would be if you were in harms way.

So, what is to be done if Fatty Swiss Cake Rolls does something beyond talk with his mouth full?

respond.  with the full force, might and fury of the armed forces.


Well, not the full force. Quite a bit of it is hanging out in the desert. But a good amount of force.
 
2013-04-05 05:05:21 PM

Treygreen13: stir22: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: stir22: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

yep.  if war does happen, they will fight to the death.  thousands of US troops will die.  I have relatives and a very close friend within 8 miles of the DMZ.

the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

pretty easy to be tough on they keyboard, 'eh?  i wonder what your rhetoric would be if you were in harms way.

So, what is to be done if Fatty Swiss Cake Rolls does something beyond talk with his mouth full?

respond.  with the full force, might and fury of the armed forces.

Well, not the full force. Quite a bit of it is hanging out in the desert. But a good amount of force.


I come here for this. Seriously. The "rawr, we have big military" talk helps me feel more comfortable.
 
2013-04-05 05:07:35 PM

DeathCipris: Seemed to work well for us up until the early 1900's...


In 1900, a modern fleet trying to transit from their Atlantic ports to Korea took months.

Today, that seem fleet, in the same amount of time, could land on Mars.
 
2013-04-05 05:09:02 PM

BigNumber12: pdrake: both sides lose


[www.hindustantimes.com image 650x1071]

A cool graphic, but... severely misleading, as has already been mentioned. When one tank can hit another from well outside of its range, and the other would probably struggle even to penetrate the opposing's armor, you can't really compare the two in terms of numbers. Look at Gulf War 1... their tanks frequently couldn't even see what it was that was killing them. Our biggest headache was Friendly Fire.

And that doesn't even begin to address cross-column interaction. We could have no tanks, and theirs would still be sitting ducks if they tried to move around with aircraft on the prowl.

They money we pump into advancing our military tech... it means a lot when the adversary is basically frozen in time.

Also - while they run the same drills for decades on end, we've been learning hard lessons in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we've been adapting.


that all makes sense. thank you for the well put response.

i still hope it doesn't come to an armed conflict.
 
2013-04-05 05:21:07 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I come here for this. Seriously. The "rawr, we have big military" talk helps me feel more comfortable.


If "rawr we have big military" talk is the kind of thing you want, minus all the rah-rah... look at our Navy and Air Force. They spend billions and billions every year and for good reason - nothing North Korea has is going to save them from the kind of hurtin' the Navy can do. People talk about how badass our troops are, but the really terrifying stuff is the stuff you don't ever see or hear until it is far, far too late.

The thing that terrifies me the most about the Army (should they decide they want me dead) isn't a team of soldiers they'd send after me. It's that some guy wearing a headset in a building 1000 miles away finding me with a satellite and then making the tough decision of whether he wants to turn me into 500 pieces or a trillion pieces.
 
2013-04-05 05:25:35 PM
So, I guess what you all are saying is that I picked the wrong time to finally go see my wife's native South Korea?   Our flight lands on the afternoon of the 10th...

:(
 
2013-04-05 05:32:29 PM

Lost Thought 00: Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.

They have a scheduled missile test during that time frame. US and allies will track the missile trajectories, but will only intervene if it poses a threat to anything other than whales. Just like every other one of their missile tests


Im kinda thinking this time we (and SK) are positioning to intercept it. I think we should too...just pluck it out of the sky, call Un up and say "hey, that was fun, good test, got any more?"


THoey: So, I guess what you all are saying is that I picked the wrong time to finally go see my wife's native South Korea?   Our flight lands on the afternoon of the 10th...

:(


Stay far enough south and you will be ok. A visit to Seoul might not be advisable.
 
2013-04-05 05:48:06 PM

Treygreen13: echomike23: SurelyShirley: Treygreen13: They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.

I'm going to disagree with you there.

[i49.tinypic.com image 203x301]

[generickorean.files.wordpress.com image 450x255]

But you can get non-crazy Korean chicks in South Korea!



That would depend on one's definition of crazy.
To me, an ex-army sonyeo, who quite possibly knows a bit about self-defense and -reliance, has some survival skills, and, being a Nork, can cope with a fairly basic lifestyle, is less crazy than one from the south, whose life revolves around $5k handbags, yet another plastic surgery and the latest Hyundai.
 
2013-04-05 06:01:40 PM

THoey: So, I guess what you all are saying is that I picked the wrong time to finally go see my wife's native South Korea?   Our flight lands on the afternoon of the 10th...

:(


You're in luck. I hear they're forecasting bright sunshine!
 
2013-04-05 06:06:04 PM

echomike23: SurelyShirley: Treygreen13: They're not "protecting" anything. They don't have anything anybody wants.

I'm going to disagree with you there.

[i49.tinypic.com image 203x301]

[generickorean.files.wordpress.com image 450x255]


Sorry - just not seeing it. Looks plain and sickly to me.
 
2013-04-05 06:21:24 PM
The Brits should have just said: We won't need any help. We'll just use the tunnel.
 
2013-04-05 06:21:36 PM

THoey: So, I guess what you all are saying is that I picked the wrong time to finally go see my wife's native South Korea?   Our flight lands on the afternoon of the 10th...

:(


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-05 06:22:35 PM

echomike23: THoey: So, I guess what you all are saying is that I picked the wrong time to finally go see my wife's native South Korea?   Our flight lands on the afternoon of the 10th...

:(

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]


in all seriousness, be careful.  you should be ok.
 
2013-04-05 06:24:58 PM
Best Korea has 70 subs??
 
2013-04-05 06:27:18 PM

Forced Perspective: Infernalist: This whole 'April 10th' thing has me a bit concerned.

We're still, legally, in a state of war with North Korea.  They have now threatened our interests.  Why aren't we launching bombing raids now to completely decapitate their command and control?  The lesson of the past decade is that nation-building is hard, but we don't have to do that; bombing their infrastructure (lol) and going home should be more than enough.  Hell, we can even offer sweet buyout packages for North Korean nuclear "scientists."


You'd make a good village idiot. Do you live in a village? If not, would you be willing to relocate? I hear there's good bits of string, wood, dead budgerigars, sparrows, pieces of moss, and dead voles in it.
 
2013-04-05 06:30:03 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Do we need a redhead thread for you? A Lululemon see-through yoga pants thread?



Yes please and maybe throw in a hot military women of the world while we're at it.
 
2013-04-05 06:36:47 PM
I'm not real sure what's going on with Nutcase Jr over there, but I can't but help notice that he got all stirred up around the same time we started winding down our current war.

It's almost like he wants to be next in line.

China backed N. Korea during the Korean war -- after they helped start the thing in the first place. However, in the decades since, China has developed a thriving international economy that depends heavily on manufacturing goods for other nations. One of it's major customers is the US.

It's not good business to back another war against the US when we're providing them billions in revenue. Plus, there is no longer a Soviet Union, which had supported China as China was supporting the N. Koreans. Russia now has assorted mutually beneficial pacts with the US.

I'm actually a bit surprised that the N.K. military hasn't staged a coup and exterminated 'Dear Leader' as has happened in a lot of other nations previously under dictatorship. I'm sure some of the military leaders there know exactly what's going to happen if they provoke a major war and it aint gonna be real nice for them.

Plus there's the bad taste the 'police action' of Vietnam left in many of the mouths of US citizens. I doubt if they'd be tolerant of such a politically micromanaged and held back war again.

I suspect the US has already dusted off the nukes it has hidden away and there was that banished, forbidden, internationally rejected Neutron Bomb that the military had developed but never got to use.

When detonated, it doesn't level everything for miles. It just kills everything with a spinal cord and leaves the infrastructure standing. It was supposed to be more humane for rescuers to arrive on clear roads, with functional water lines and power plants.

Everyone else figured it was to facilitate the easy takeover by an invading force -- which would not have to plow through millions of tons of rubble.

I figure one or two of them just has to be squirreled away.

Kind of like the banned poison gasses several other hostile nations were caught resurrecting. I believe the Kurds were one of the unfortunate peoples to actually get to experience them since their banning in WW1.
 
2013-04-05 06:41:23 PM

Stargazr10: Best Korea has 70 subs??


Yes.  Mostly small costal diesel/electric mini-subs, but they have used them to deliver commandos to the south, and to sink SK navy ships.  While they are primitive, they are also very hard to find if they camp out in shallow water, and they can be armed with fairly powerful torpedos.  They are not a threat to the US mainland, but they are the naval equivalant of an insurgent cell.

I would say that there is a reasonably high chance they will be involved in the next "incident."
 
2013-04-05 06:45:08 PM

Stargazr10: Best Korea has 70 subs??


They are really just boats that sank, but Dear Leader assures us that when he gives the attack order, they will join the glorious cause.

Also, I've been thinking about that Best Korea nuclear attack plan map that got leaked the other day, showing a plan to hit San Diego, Austin, TX, and DC.   Is it possible it was just a map of where to get take out from?
 
2013-04-05 06:47:46 PM
I think I have finally figured out why we're all constantly talking about this and posting about it in every thread.

Two Reasons really.

Reason One is what I will call "Where Were You Syndrome". Whether we admit or not, whether we consciously know it or not, we all want to know the second something like this happens, so we can have our "Where Were You?" moment frozen in our heads forever. Several events (JFK, The Day The Music Died, 9/11, etc.) always carry the question "Where were you when it happened/when you found out). We all want to be able to have that discussion whether we know it or not, its one of those odd human behaviors. We all want to be able to say "I knew it was coming, here's where I was when it finally happened, etc."

Reason Two: Its very surreal to be talking about a Nuclear War in 2013 for EVERYBODY no matter when you were born.

If you lived through the Cold War, its surreal to have this black cloud hanging over the world again. Granted, its not to the extent it was during the Cold War, but its still an odd feeling that not only are we talking about a Nuclear War, but every day it seems like it might actually happen. Everybody has always said you have to be crazy to want to start a war with Nukes and it seems like Un may just be crazy enough to hit the button.

As for the people like me (I'm 21) who didn't grow up in the Cold War, and only learned about it in textbooks, its equally surreal that we're talking about being on the brink of a Nuclear War, no matter how valid Un's threats are. People my age have had to deal with Terrorism growing up but we've never had Nukes aimed at us with someone hovering their hand over the Big Red Button. Now I'm not saying that Un is going to launch or even that they could even make it to the United States, but the fact that he is  threateningto launch Nukes is just so mind blowing that I can't help but be curious, if not a little anxious about what could happen.

Earlier in this thread I said "Don't wake me up unless war were declared." And honestly that's how I feel right now. We've talked this topic into the ground about how and when and where it could happen, now it just feels like we're anxiously waiting to see if it actually will happen. Its like everyone that's paying attention to what's going on, along with BoB and the rest of the Government and Military, is sitting on pins and needles waiting for someone to move first.
 
2013-04-05 07:08:20 PM

Professor Farksworth: Earlier in this thread I said "Don't wake me up unless war were declared." And honestly that's how I feel right now. We've talked this topic into the ground about how and when and where it could happen, now it just feels like we're anxiously waiting to see if it actually will happen. Its like everyone that's paying attention to what's going on, along with BoB and the rest of the Government and Military, is sitting on pins and needles waiting for someone to move first.


I have that same feeling.  I do not believe there is justification for a war.  Unless the DPRK actually goes full retard and nukes/bombards a population center, this is just buisness as usual.  You could argue the morality of leaving Kim Jong Ect in power, but I am not eager to get into another "just war."

The issue for me, is that I am processing out of the military soon.  If we are going to war, I feel that I should go.  I would never be able to forgive myself for sitting on the sidelines through the conclusion of the Korean war.  That said, I went to Iraq, I have done my part, and I am eager to get on with my life.  Un needs to shiat or get off the pot.
 
2013-04-05 07:31:16 PM
Obviously, if the prediction is April 10th,  the attack has already been deployed. The container ship with the nuke is probably East of Guam by now. Nice knowing you, Los Angeles!
 
2013-04-05 07:52:43 PM

DeathCipris: scottydoesntknow: DeathCipris: the lord god: DeathCipris: This thread is sickening...

Does ANYONE remember what happened in Iraq, or more aptly, Germany after the collapse of the Third Reich? I don't want to see American service men and women dead because fatty-ding dongs wants to play Risk. The NK population is brainwashed and enslaved by this regime. They will fight back to the bitter end, just like the Nazis did during the Battle of Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

I certainly don't want yet ANOTHER war we have to pay for and more dead troops.

Oh grow up or go outside and let the adults handle this.

Or how bout I am the only adult here that seems to know history and realize that this is a tremendously BAD idea.

No you aren't. You would prefer to hide your head in the sand and avoid the real world. He's a crazy dictator threatening countries with nuclear weapons. This isn't Iraq (an unjustified invasion), or the freaking Third Reich (i.e. WORLD WAR II). Nobody is making a move until Un does first.

And honestly the rest of the world is tired of his shiat. Yes some people want him to act, not because they love seeing violence and death, but because he needs to be removed. The whole regime does. He is a threat to international peace.

Now go back to the sandbox.

Wow, way to go insulting me with more kiddie name-calling crap. Real mature there...

Lemme hit you with some knowledge, wars are expensive...very, very expensive. Unless you want to be thrown right back into the economic dark ages that we are finally starting to get out of, I'd avoid another war.
Un is bad, no argument there. Your line "Yes some people want him to act, not because they love seeing violence and death, but because he needs to be removed." is irrational. People wanting to see him move (and be removed) by taking military action, but profess to not love violence and death is asinine. His action will be to spark another war with the US. I was using the Third Reich as an example of a highly brainwashed populace and the sheer will the people had to defend against a foreign invader. If there was an invasion the urban fighting would be absolutely  brutal. The NK people have been trained to fear and hate the US. I don't want thousands of American soldiers coming home in body bags because of this moron. If he is such a damn international threat, then let the Chinese handle him. We need to stay the hell out of this.

And if you want a decent debate, you should avoid name calling. It weakens your position.


The wayy I see it, all my life (I am 37) war with North Korea was pretty much been seen as inevitable. They can't stand on their own and there is too much pride for them to acknowlege their failure as a state. The ONLY way for them to resolve it is to provoke a war so they can be conquered by and reunited with SK. Any other path of action would be culturally intolerable.

I want to get it over with before they develop effective delivery systems for their weapons. All those people in Seoul? I've considered them the walking dead my whole life. Those guys in the DMZ? Everybody has told me my whole life that they are sacrificial lambs. They are there to die, to ensure that there is enough outrage when NK attacks that Congress will be forced to respond.

It's not about whether there will be a war. It's about how long we give them to modernize their military.
 
2013-04-05 08:00:55 PM
I still think this is a means to an end.

Un is trying to convince us to attack them - to destroy their home.

Think about this on the smaller scale. Two gangs are at war for several years. They agree to a temporary treaty but that doesn't last. Now one gang is verbally threatening not only the lives' of the rival gang but also their families, neighborhood stores, and schools. While they haven't followed through - they've announced their intentions.

Why?
 
2013-04-05 08:59:01 PM
Don't have to worry until they gas up their long range rockets. Good practice for the LASER jet.
 
2013-04-05 09:32:52 PM
NK is going to start the war.  They know they will lose and are counting on it.  What does the US do immediately after kicking the butt of any country?  Pour billions of dollars into their pockets.  And they keep lousy track of where that money goes.  In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Un also shells his own major population centers.  Less people to feed plus all he has to do is say that it was the US or SK who did it.  Since nobody will believe that he would deliberately kill his own people like that NK will get a bunch more help from other countries and the SK/US alliance will look bad.  Even after the debris are examined and it is revealed that NK weapons did the damage there will still be a huge amount of people who will believe that it is another cover up conspiracy by the US government.
 
2013-04-05 09:49:56 PM

THoey: So, I guess what you all are saying is that I picked the wrong time to finally go see my wife's native South Korea? Our flight lands on the afternoon of the 10th...


Come out to the coast, we'll get together, have a few laughs...

i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-05 10:10:10 PM

antron: THoey: So, I guess what you all are saying is that I picked the wrong time to finally go see my wife's native South Korea? Our flight lands on the afternoon of the 10th...

Come out to the coast, we'll get together, have a few laughs...

[i49.tinypic.com image 500x281]


Heh!
 
2013-04-05 11:03:58 PM

orclover: I think about the only thing they could do worth spit on April 10th is to launch the biggest nuke they have right at japan and have it detonate right offshore from Fukushima.  Just far enough so that it doesn't actually hurt anything but everybodies eyes and ear drums.  Let the radiation settle in with the rest of the radiation and just piss the hell off everybody in Japan.  I think it would be the only way they could "nuke" somebody and not subsequently get invaded.


So you're saying they should aim for Austin?
 
2013-04-05 11:38:09 PM

eatin' fetus: Obviously, if the prediction is April 10th,  the attack has already been deployed. The container ship with the nuke is probably East of Guam by now. Nice knowing you, Los Angeles!


Detonating a bomb in Long Beach harbor would do very little to Los Angeles. Detonating a bomb in downtown Los Angeles would also do very little to Los Angeles, actually. Los Angeles is huge.


Bontesla: I still think this is a means to an end.

Un is trying to convince us to attack them - to destroy their home.

Think about this on the smaller scale. Two gangs are at war for several years. They agree to a temporary treaty but that doesn't last. Now one gang is verbally threatening not only the lives' of the rival gang but also their families, neighborhood stores, and schools. While they haven't followed through - they've announced their intentions.

Why?


It's more like an athlete trying to draw a foul from the opposing team. They want to draw SK or the US into attacking first?


Professor Farksworth: Its very surreal to be talking about a Nuclear War in 2013 for EVERYBODY no matter when you were born.

If you lived through the Cold War, its surreal to have this black cloud hanging over the world again. Granted, its not to the extent it was during the Cold War, but its still an odd feeling that not only are we talking about a Nuclear War, but every day it seems like it might actually happen. Everybody has always said you have to be crazy to want to start a war with Nukes and it seems like Un may just be crazy enough to hit the button.

As for the people like me (I'm 21) who didn't grow up in the Cold War, and only learned about it in textbooks, its equally surreal that we're talking about being on the brink of a Nuclear War, no matter how valid Un's threats are. People my age have had to deal with Terrorism growing up but we've never had Nukes aimed at us with someone hovering their hand over the Big Red Button.


"Not to the extent" doesn't even describe it. All we face is the possibility of North Korea striking once if they're lucky, and not even within the United States lower 48. With the Soviets, we faced thousands of nuclear missiles and mutual annihilation.

If North Korea strikes with a nuclear weapon anywhere outside their borders, we will not respond in kind. Why? We don't need to. We had Mutually Assured Destruction with the Soviets because we could not mount a credible conventional counter-attack against a Soviet first-strike. With North Korea we can.

 
2013-04-06 12:09:37 AM

miss diminutive: Treygreen13: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 484x184]
I SAID THROW DOWN, BOY!

You gonna do something, or just stand there and bleed?


www.halfempty.com
I ain't got time to bleed.
 
2013-04-06 12:10:21 AM

StopLurkListen: eatin' fetus: Obviously, if the prediction is April 10th,  the attack has already been deployed. The container ship with the nuke is probably East of Guam by now. Nice knowing you, Los Angeles!

Detonating a bomb in Long Beach harbor would do very little to Los Angeles. Detonating a bomb in downtown Los Angeles would also do very little to Los Angeles, actually. Los Angeles is huge.


Bontesla: I still think this is a means to an end.

Un is trying to convince us to attack them - to destroy their home.

Think about this on the smaller scale. Two gangs are at war for several years. They agree to a temporary treaty but that doesn't last. Now one gang is verbally threatening not only the lives' of the rival gang but also their families, neighborhood stores, and schools. While they haven't followed through - they've announced their intentions.

Why?

It's more like an athlete trying to draw a foul from the opposing team. They want to draw SK or the US into attacking first?


Professor Farksworth: Its very surreal to be talking about a Nuclear War in 2013 for EVERYBODY no matter when you were born.

If you lived through the Cold War, its surreal to have this black cloud hanging over the world again. Granted, its not to the extent it was during the Cold War, but its still an odd feeling that not only are we talking about a Nuclear War, but every day it seems like it might actually happen. Everybody has always said you have to be crazy to want to start a war with Nukes and it seems like Un may just be crazy enough to hit the button.

As for the people like me (I'm 21) who didn't grow up in the Cold War, and only learned about it in textbooks, its equally surreal that we're talking about being on the brink of a Nuclear War, no matter how valid Un's threats are. People my age have had to deal with Terrorism growing up but we've never had Nukes aimed at us with someone hovering their hand over the Big Red Button.

"Not to the extent" doesn't even describe it. All we face is t ...


Nukes for nukes.  It's the only way to reasonably keep the use of them from being used against us.  Nobody can survive a nuclear strike from us.  The whole point of winning a war is to enjoy being alive afterwards.
 
2013-04-06 12:13:58 AM

Professor Farksworth: Reason Two: Its very surreal to be talking about a Nuclear War in 2013 for EVERYBODY no matter when you were born.

If you lived through the Cold War, its surreal to have this black cloud hanging over the world again. Granted, its not to the extent it was during the Cold War, but its still an odd feeling that not only are we talking about a Nuclear War, but every day it seems like it might actually happen. Everybody has always said you have to be crazy to want to start a war with Nukes and it seems like Un may just be crazy enough to hit the button.

As for the people like me (I'm 21) who didn't grow up in the Cold War, and only learned about it in textbooks, its equally surreal that we're talking about being on the brink of a Nuclear War, no matter how valid Un's threats are. People my age have had to deal with Terrorism growing up but we've never had Nukes aimed at us with someone hovering their hand over the Big Red Button. Now I'm not saying that Un is going to launch or even that they could even make it to the United States, but the fact that he is  threateningto launch Nukes is just so mind blowing that I can't help but be curious, if not a little anxious about what could happen.


I never thought, I'd start a post like this, but...listen son, I've lived through the height of the cold war about 60 miles from about 400000 Soviet troops, less than 10 miles from a nuclear missile silo and 2 miles from a decent size NATO anti-aircraft missile battery. If the shiat had ever hit the fan, we pretty much would have been the first ones to go.
There were times when things got really hairy (Able Archer anyone?), but it was all good, because both sides knew it would be a lose/lose situation.
This Best Korean thing isn't even close. I don't worry about mine or my family's safety, not for a second. I don't know where the closest fall out shelter is, and I don't care to check. There is no way that a Nork missile could harm anyone around me (I'm on the west coast). I doubt, the Norks are capable of firing any nuclear material far beyong their borders with any precision. If they do, they will not get one in return. They'll get blasted to hell, but only with conventional weapons. The US, China and Russia are going to make sure, that none of them is releasing any ICBMs on anyone. They now better.
I still hope, that this is just some brainfart by little chub and nothing more.
War is hell.
The folks in North and South Korea just want to live their lives like we do..well kinda sorta close anyway.
They're just regular folks, men, women, children.
If things turn bad and all hell breaks loose, hopefully we'll be able to help the Norks on their way to a better future without killing half of 'em and turning whatever little they have into rubble.
 
2013-04-06 12:14:10 AM

Noekken: CygnusDarius: The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory.


What about the lamentations of their women?  Can't really call it a war without some good lamentations now, can you?  Sheesh.  Nobody respects the traditional values any more.


Good point.  Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe.
 
2013-04-06 12:16:02 AM

TommyDeuce: So you're saying they should aim for Austin?


Well I do believe we are on the shortlist.  I'm ok with that, might free up some parking spaces.
 
2013-04-06 12:21:15 AM

echomike23: let all at the least step back for a second and remind ourselves that this...is FARK.

oh and to lighten the mood may i present a korean cake

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x375]


That is indeed a Korean cake: topped with fruit and cherry tomatoes (which, to Koreans, ARE fruit).
 
2013-04-06 02:32:52 AM

ciberido: echomike23: let all at the least step back for a second and remind ourselves that this...is FARK.

oh and to lighten the mood may i present a korean cake

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x375]

That is indeed a Korean cake: topped with fruit and cherry tomatoes (which, to Koreans, ARE fruit).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato#Fruit_or_vegetable.3F
 
2013-04-06 07:21:03 AM

pdrake: both sides lose


www.hindustantimes.com


The problem with this graphic is that it includes the US in the South, but completely leaves out China in the North.
Invalid comparison is invalid.
 
2013-04-06 03:54:04 PM

pdrake: i still hope it doesn't come to an armed conflict.


Frustratingly, not everyone feels that way. And honestly, after seeing the society that South Korea has built (in contrast to what the same people on the other side of the border have "accomplished" in the same time period), and reading about the shiat they have to put up with from north of the Border, I've become downright fond of them. I absolutely wish them peace, and I hope that reunification ends up being less traumatic than most people expect it to be.
 
2013-04-06 03:58:08 PM

eatin' fetus: Obviously, if the prediction is April 10th, the attack has already been deployed. The container ship with the nuke is probably East of Guam by now.


Shiat... I'll be in San Francisco, not far from the waterfront...
 
2013-04-06 04:27:40 PM

The Southern Dandy: The problem with this graphic is that it includes the US in the South, but completely leaves out China in the North.


On that point specifically - my understanding is that the U.S. is treaty-bound to defend South Korea in the event of invasion. Our forces are already actively and openly deployed, right there at the border, in a defensive role. So - a unified, already-defined, and quantifiable force, albeit a multi-national one.

I do not believe that China has any such agreement with North Korea. No binding guarantee of defense (or "defense"). No deployed or committed troops (certainly not openly like the U.S. forces, and probably not much covertly beyond "advisors"). So - currently, there's nothing really that can be quantified as their contribution to NK's force. If something were to happen, they might send 2 troops, or 2 million, but as it stands currently, they're contributing nothing.
 
2013-04-06 05:36:55 PM

BigNumber12: The Southern Dandy: The problem with this graphic is that it includes the US in the South, but completely leaves out China in the North.

On that point specifically - my understanding is that the U.S. is treaty-bound to defend South Korea in the event of invasion. Our forces are already actively and openly deployed, right there at the border, in a defensive role. So - a unified, already-defined, and quantifiable force, albeit a multi-national one.

I do not believe that China has any such agreement with North Korea. No binding guarantee of defense (or "defense"). No deployed or committed troops (certainly not openly like the U.S. forces, and probably not much covertly beyond "advisors"). So - currently, there's nothing really that can be quantified as their contribution to NK's force. If something were to happen, they might send 2 troops, or 2 million, but as it stands currently, they're contributing nothing.


i.ebayimg.com
 
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