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(Boston.com)   Another vacancy opens at Rutgers. Not that one. And not that one either. A different one   (boston.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Scarlet Knights, Tim Pernetti, LGBT slang, athletic director  
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1422 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Apr 2013 at 12:14 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



31 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-04-05 11:19:48 AM  
The only question, what the fark took so long?
 
2013-04-05 12:17:00 PM  
They are certainly responding with more ferocity than Penn State did.
 
2013-04-05 12:23:34 PM  
Couple players have come out defending the coach. I guess others might be happy he got bounced, I suppose.
 
2013-04-05 12:32:48 PM  
Those players *chose* to play at Rutgers. Rice surely crossed a line, but if they are happy he got bounced, they might have decided to transfer sooner (like many others did). This should have been another red flag for the AD.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-05 12:41:10 PM  
Don't let the basketball smash you in the face on your way out the door.
 
2013-04-05 12:42:10 PM  
This is bad getting worse, but until the words "rhythmic slapping sounds" appear in a report connected to Rutgers, it will never come close to the Penn State scandal.
 
2013-04-05 12:45:38 PM  
I am so glad the BigTen did its due dilgence before it decided to invite such a stable and well run sports program such as Rutgers to join.
 
2013-04-05 12:50:16 PM  

Kuta: Those players *chose* to play at Rutgers. Rice surely crossed a line, but if they are happy he got bounced, they might have decided to transfer sooner (like many others did). This should have been another red flag for the AD.


The players defending him are still at rutgers and at least one has said they hope the next coach is someone like Rice.

I wasn't aware of previous transferrees out. If that is due to rice's mistreatment, then yes rutgers should fire him. It's just difficult to reconcile the general consensus that this guy is a maniac with his current players defending him.
 
2013-04-05 12:52:44 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Kuta: Those players *chose* to play at Rutgers. Rice surely crossed a line, but if they are happy he got bounced, they might have decided to transfer sooner (like many others did). This should have been another red flag for the AD.

The players defending him are still at rutgers and at least one has said they hope the next coach is someone like Rice.

I wasn't aware of previous transferrees out. If that is due to rice's mistreatment, then yes rutgers should fire him. It's just difficult to reconcile the general consensus that this guy is a maniac with his current players defending him.


3 players transferred out this season and filed a grievance with the NCAA to get the 1 year transfer ban lifted for their case.
 
2013-04-05 12:57:01 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Debeo Summa Credo: Kuta: Those players *chose* to play at Rutgers. Rice surely crossed a line, but if they are happy he got bounced, they might have decided to transfer sooner (like many others did). This should have been another red flag for the AD.

The players defending him are still at rutgers and at least one has said they hope the next coach is someone like Rice.

I wasn't aware of previous transferrees out. If that is due to rice's mistreatment, then yes rutgers should fire him. It's just difficult to reconcile the general consensus that this guy is a maniac with his current players defending him.

3 players transferred out this season and filed a grievance with the NCAA to get the 1 year transfer ban lifted for their case.


Well, there you go. I stand corrected. Perhaps the guy was an insufferable douchebag to play for.
 
2013-04-05 12:59:57 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Debeo Summa Credo: Kuta: Those players *chose* to play at Rutgers. Rice surely crossed a line, but if they are happy he got bounced, they might have decided to transfer sooner (like many others did). This should have been another red flag for the AD.

The players defending him are still at rutgers and at least one has said they hope the next coach is someone like Rice.

I wasn't aware of previous transferrees out. If that is due to rice's mistreatment, then yes rutgers should fire him. It's just difficult to reconcile the general consensus that this guy is a maniac with his current players defending him.

3 players transferred out this season and filed a grievance with the NCAA to get the 1 year transfer ban lifted for their case.


the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.
 
2013-04-05 01:06:21 PM  

bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.


That may be the case. I would expect to see a bunch of the remaining players to transfer anyways once the NCAA gives the team a post-season ban
 
2013-04-05 01:18:50 PM  

bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.


I'm sure that their reactions in practice sessions to Rice's coaching style had nothing to do with the playing time they earned.
 
2013-04-05 01:29:58 PM  

Lost Thought 00: bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.

That may be the case. I would expect to see a bunch of the remaining players to transfer anyways once the NCAA gives the team a post-season ban


you think a post-season ban affects the RU men's bball team in the slightest? lol


AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.

I'm sure that their reactions in practice sessions to Rice's coaching style had nothing to do with the playing time they earned.


different players, different timelines. most of the offenses in the video happened 3 years ago. one of the kids transferring committed to the school this past year (2012-2013 was his first year in the program). multiple players have come out and said the video was a gross over-representation of what went on and that it was not representative of what happened recently in practices. one player said they gave it back to mike rice (physically) as much as he gave to them, but obviously that wouldn't show up in the video cut-up as murdock was looking for his 1 million dollar payday.
 
2013-04-05 01:48:26 PM  

Lost Thought 00: That may be the case. I would expect to see a bunch of the remaining players to transfer anyways once the NCAA gives the team a post-season ban


The last time the RU men's team made the NCAA Tourney was 1991. And they weren't threatening to break that streak anytime soon.
 
2013-04-05 01:55:52 PM  

bmckenna: AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.

I'm sure that their reactions in practice sessions to Rice's coaching style had nothing to do with the playing time they earned.

different players, different timelines. most of the offenses in the video happened 3 years ago. one of the kids transferring committed to the school this past year (2012-2013 was his first year in the program). multiple players have come out and said the video was a gross over-representation of what went on and that it was not representative of what happened recently in practices. one player said they gave it back to mike rice (physically) as much as he gave to them, but obviously that wouldn't show up in the video cut-up as murdock was looking for his 1 million dollar payday.


What Rice did on the video are not isolated incidents.  Coaches who act like that are always like that; they're bullies.  Sure, they allow players to give it right back - to a point, and only certain players at that.

The bottom line is that no good coach would ever treat his players like that.  Sure, someone like Bobby Knight may have had success being a complete dickwad but I would never call him a good coach.  Knight and Rice are just egotisical sociopaths and it's sad that anyone would defend either of them.
 
2013-04-05 01:56:06 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Lost Thought 00: Debeo Summa Credo: Kuta: Those players *chose* to play at Rutgers. Rice surely crossed a line, but if they are happy he got bounced, they might have decided to transfer sooner (like many others did). This should have been another red flag for the AD.

The players defending him are still at rutgers and at least one has said they hope the next coach is someone like Rice.

I wasn't aware of previous transferrees out. If that is due to rice's mistreatment, then yes rutgers should fire him. It's just difficult to reconcile the general consensus that this guy is a maniac with his current players defending him.

3 players transferred out this season and filed a grievance with the NCAA to get the 1 year transfer ban lifted for their case.

Well, there you go. I stand corrected. Perhaps the guy was an insufferable douchebag to play for.


I missed the original thread...but ANY coach who has to resort to what are basically bully-type tactics to motivate and coach is without doubt an insufferable douchebag.

The AD played the "I followed the University process instead of my gut that said fire the guy" card. That's bullshiat and Rutgers deserves this poor mishandling given the fact they hired a TV guy with zero collegiate administration experience to be their AD.
 
2013-04-05 01:59:15 PM  

bmckenna: Lost Thought 00: bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.

That may be the case. I would expect to see a bunch of the remaining players to transfer anyways once the NCAA gives the team a post-season ban

you think a post-season ban affects the RU men's bball team in the slightest? lol


AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.

I'm sure that their reactions in practice sessions to Rice's coaching style had nothing to do with the playing time they earned.

different players, different timelines. most of the offenses in the video happened 3 years ago. one of the kids transferring committed to the school this past year (2012-2013 was his first year in the program). multiple players have come out and said the video was a gross over-representation of what went on and that it was not representative of what happened recently in practices. one player said they gave it back to mike rice (physically) as much as he gave to them, but obviously that wouldn't show up in the video cut-up as murdock was looking for his 1 million dollar payday.


So it's ok for a coach to physically assault players as long as the players can push and shove the coach back?

That's a patently ridiculous justification for inappropriate behavior by ANYONE.

I'd stop digging that hole if I'd were you...there is ZERO defense for this jackass.
 
2013-04-05 02:00:29 PM  

NuttierThanEver: I am so glad the BigTen did its due dilgence before it decided to invite such a stable and well run sports program such as Rutgers to join.


they never cared about how well run the Athletic Department is at Rutgers. Maryland has been run so poorly that they were hemoraging money for years.

the Big 10 only cares about how many potential TV sets they can access. Rutgers and Maryland were all about the rate they can charge for their network. Are they 'academic' fits...yeah. I see that. It was also to try and appease PSU and all the travel they have had to do. It was also a shot at ND for going to the ACC and a shot at the ACC for expanding in to their 'territory'.
 
2013-04-05 02:18:48 PM  

NuttierThanEver: I am so glad the BigTen did its due dilgence before it decided to invite such a stable and well run sports program such as Rutgers to join.


The Big Ten kept Penn State around.

They obviously don't care about anything but money.
 
2013-04-05 02:30:44 PM  

Coach_J: bmckenna: Lost Thought 00: bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.

That may be the case. I would expect to see a bunch of the remaining players to transfer anyways once the NCAA gives the team a post-season ban

you think a post-season ban affects the RU men's bball team in the slightest? lol


AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: the 3 players that transferred out were bench guys who were solidly behind someone else on the depth chart. one of the three played a whopping 18 minutes all season. they are transferring elsewhere to be able to play sooner, so it would make sense for them to use this as an excuse to get a transfer waiver so they can play even sooner.

I'm sure that their reactions in practice sessions to Rice's coaching style had nothing to do with the playing time they earned.

different players, different timelines. most of the offenses in the video happened 3 years ago. one of the kids transferring committed to the school this past year (2012-2013 was his first year in the program). multiple players have come out and said the video was a gross over-representation of what went on and that it was not representative of what happened recently in practices. one player said they gave it back to mike rice (physically) as much as he gave to them, but obviously that wouldn't show up in the video cut-up as murdock was looking for his 1 million dollar payday.

So it's ok for a coach to physically assault players as long as the players can push and shove the coach back?

That's a patently ridiculous justification for inappropriate behavior by ANYONE.

I'd stop digging that hole if I'd were you...there is ZERO defense for this jackass.


I've played almost zero sports in my life so I couldn't really tell you how the relationship between a coach and player should work or for that matter best works. I have heard from a very large number of people that Rice was not the first coach like this nor will he be the last and I have recently seen defenses in print that coaching styles like this should not be removed from sports in general. I don't know enough to agree or disagree, to be quite honest. You hear about all the abuses US Marines go through during basic and they turn out to be pretty strong individuals in the end after facing some pretty tough adversity (physical and mental) along the way. I guess the intention is to break a man down and build him back up, from what I've been told about that process. I don't see why that couldn't be applied to sports, though I don't know if it's the best method of achieving results.

What I can say is that all of this has negatively impacted Rutgers' basketball program via perception, affecting recruiting and other areas, and that's why I was perfectly fine with Rice being fired in the end: because it hurt Rutgers overall. However -  all of the exaggeration and media hype surrounding the entire thing doesn't sit well with me. All of the lies surrounding the so-called "whistle-blower" Murdock who's in reality a scumbag rumored to have a gambling problem looking for a million dollar payday don't sit well with me. Most of all, the fact that Pernetti (the AD) was run out of town after seeking and following the advice of university counsel, members of the board of governors, independent counsel, and the president of the university doesn't sit well with me. Legal counsel said they couldn't fire Rice with cause back when the video first surfaced. I don't know what you'd expect the man to have done differently. But...I was never one for witch-hunts. I don't care about finding someone to blame. I guess that sets me apart from the rabid public.
 
2013-04-05 02:42:18 PM  

bmckenna: I've played almost zero sports in my life so I couldn't really tell you how the relationship between a coach and player should work or for that matter best works. I have heard from a very large number of people that Rice was not the first coach like this nor will he be the last and I have recently seen defenses in print that coaching styles like this should not be removed from sports in general. I don't know enough to agree or disagree, to be quite honest. You hear about all the abuses US Marines go through during basic and they turn out to be pretty strong individuals in the end after facing some pretty tough adversity (physical and mental) along the way. I guess the intention is to break a man down and build him back up, from what I've been told about that process. I don't see why that couldn't be applied to sports, though I don't know if it's the best method of achieving results.


The end goal of training athletes vs training marines are quite different.  Marines are trained to submit to authority so that they follow every order to the letter as well as to survive as long as they can in life-and-death situations.  The people training those marines care about them insofar as they want them to not die or get any of their fellow marines killed.  Athletes are trained to be as physically and mentally fit as possible to excel in a specific competition with known rules and regulations.  Yes, they need to respect and - at times, when necessary - fear their coaches.  But this kind of training is poor on so many levels.  Athletes should be trained to work within a coach's system, but at the same time they need to be fearless so that they can overcome adversity.  Rice, by bullying his players, is training them that they need to submit 100% to him - which is something that no good coach would ever want to instill in his players.  If a player is trained in such a way that he won't stand up to his coach, then the player is also being trained to give up when faced with a challenge.

There can be a fine line between challenging your players and abusing them.  Rice didn't just step over it, he went miles past it without even giving it a second thought.
 
2013-04-05 02:53:09 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: I've played almost zero sports in my life so I couldn't really tell you how the relationship between a coach and player should work or for that matter best works. I have heard from a very large number of people that Rice was not the first coach like this nor will he be the last and I have recently seen defenses in print that coaching styles like this should not be removed from sports in general. I don't know enough to agree or disagree, to be quite honest. You hear about all the abuses US Marines go through during basic and they turn out to be pretty strong individuals in the end after facing some pretty tough adversity (physical and mental) along the way. I guess the intention is to break a man down and build him back up, from what I've been told about that process. I don't see why that couldn't be applied to sports, though I don't know if it's the best method of achieving results.

The end goal of training athletes vs training marines are quite different.  Marines are trained to submit to authority so that they follow every order to the letter as well as to survive as long as they can in life-and-death situations.  The people training those marines care about them insofar as they want them to not die or get any of their fellow marines killed.  Athletes are trained to be as physically and mentally fit as possible to excel in a specific competition with known rules and regulations.  Yes, they need to respect and - at times, when necessary - fear their coaches.  But this kind of training is poor on so many levels.  Athletes should be trained to work within a coach's system, but at the same time they need to be fearless so that they can overcome adversity.  Rice, by bullying his players, is training them that they need to submit 100% to him - which is something that no good coach would ever want to instill in his players.  If a player is trained in such a way that he won't stand up to his coach, then the player is also being trained to give up when faced wit ...


That's a perfectly reasonable explanation. Thanks for explaining the difference :). Like I said, I don't purport to know the best way to do anything with regards to coaching young athletes, but I certainly agreed with Rice's firing. Pernetti, I'm still quite livid about...defines "scapegoat."
 
2013-04-05 03:12:49 PM  

bmckenna: That's a perfectly reasonable explanation. Thanks for explaining the difference :). Like I said, I don't purport to know the best way to do anything with regards to coaching young athletes, but I certainly agreed with Rice's firing. Pernetti, I'm still quite livid about...defines "scapegoat."


The coverup is always worse than the crime.  Pernetti also claimed that he was making it a priority to clean up the athletics department.  When he saw the tape he should have fired Rice immediately and made the tapes public.  Instead he gave the coach a slap on the wrist until the video eventually went public anyway.  There really are no good people involved in this story, except maybe the school officials who are cleaning house (only because I'm not sure how much of this they knew beforehand).
 
2013-04-05 03:39:48 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: That's a perfectly reasonable explanation. Thanks for explaining the difference :). Like I said, I don't purport to know the best way to do anything with regards to coaching young athletes, but I certainly agreed with Rice's firing. Pernetti, I'm still quite livid about...defines "scapegoat."

The coverup is always worse than the crime.  Pernetti also claimed that he was making it a priority to clean up the athletics department.  When he saw the tape he should have fired Rice immediately and made the tapes public.  Instead he gave the coach a slap on the wrist until the video eventually went public anyway.  There really are no good people involved in this story, except maybe the school officials who are cleaning house (only because I'm not sure how much of this they knew beforehand).


What cover-up? The facts of the case were out in December. The video came now and showed exactly what we thought it did. Pernetti should've fired Rice in December, no question, but a suspension, fine, anger management, and monitor at practices isn't nothing. Is the gap between that and firing Rice a fireable offense itself? I don't think so.
 
2013-04-05 04:10:52 PM  

majestic: They are certainly responding with more ferocity than Penn State did.


Way easy to respond more aggressively when the scandal doesn't involve a football team making tons of money. It took like a year for the Penn State AD Tim Curley to be "fired" (and actually he's still being paid, just on administrative leave and his contract isn't being renewed after it expires in June 2013).
 
2013-04-05 04:53:35 PM  

bmckenna: AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: like i said before, three members of the board of governors, internal legal counsel, external legal counsel, and the president of the university all signed off on the disciplinary plan. if pernetti's resignation letter is to be believed, counsel advised him that he couldn't terminate rice with cause based on the video (which is in line with what i was saying yesterday that i had heard from credible sources). considering they're not firing rice *now* with cause, i see no reason why that shouldn't be believed.

Well they were all wrong.  It was a bad call then, so it is right that heads should roll now.

so you fire the guy who wanted to fire rice immediately instead of the ones who told him that the money wasn't there to do that since you couldn't terminate rice with cause and still owed him 75% of the balance of his contract? that's fair.

pernetti and one of the counsel for the university are the only administrative heads that rolled, hence why i said pernetti is the scapegoat. i understand why it's going on (they're currently in the middle of a 2 billion dollar merger with UMDNJ in which barchi is "the right guy for the job") but that doesn't make it any fairer.


They advised him that he couldn't fire for cause.  But no one would overturn that firing after seeing the video.  They made a bad choice, a cowardly choice, and I couldn't care less that they think that it was a good decision simply because they agreed at a meeting.
 
2013-04-05 04:58:24 PM  
Rutgers grad student here. From what I've read and heard it seems as though Pernetti has been thrown under the bus a bit. It turns out he suggested that Rice be fired but was told by the university not to. Now, what he did in response can be up for debate [see Penn State(!)], but it does seem as though Barchi either saw the tape and is denying it (I doubt this) or didn't see it in order to be able to claim plausible deniability (more likely). Anyway, faculty, staff, and many students hate Barchi and now that there's blood in the water, they're circling. This may blow over, or it may be a tipping point for the president's ouster as well. Somehow I doubt Barchi will go, there's too much riding on this many billions of dollars worth of mergers.
 
2013-04-05 04:59:15 PM  

coco ebert: Rutgers grad student here. From what I've read and heard it seems as though Pernetti has been thrown under the bus a bit. It turns out he suggested that Rice be fired but was told by the university not to. Now, what he did in response can be up for debate [see Penn State(!)], but it does seem as though Barchi either saw the tape and is denying it (I doubt this) or didn't see it in order to be able to claim plausible deniability (more likely). Anyway, faculty, staff, and many students hate Barchi and now that there's blood in the water, they're circling. This may blow over, or it may be a tipping point for the president's ouster as well. Somehow I doubt Barchi will go, there's too much riding on this many billions of dollars worth of mergers multi-billion dollar merger.


FTFM. Had a brain freeze there for a moment.
 
2013-04-05 11:36:23 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: AdmirableSnackbar: bmckenna: like i said before, three members of the board of governors, internal legal counsel, external legal counsel, and the president of the university all signed off on the disciplinary plan. if pernetti's resignation letter is to be believed, counsel advised him that he couldn't terminate rice with cause based on the video (which is in line with what i was saying yesterday that i had heard from credible sources). considering they're not firing rice *now* with cause, i see no reason why that shouldn't be believed.

Well they were all wrong.  It was a bad call then, so it is right that heads should roll now.

so you fire the guy who wanted to fire rice immediately instead of the ones who told him that the money wasn't there to do that since you couldn't terminate rice with cause and still owed him 75% of the balance of his contract? that's fair.

pernetti and one of the counsel for the university are the only administrative heads that rolled, hence why i said pernetti is the scapegoat. i understand why it's going on (they're currently in the middle of a 2 billion dollar merger with UMDNJ in which barchi is "the right guy for the job") but that doesn't make it any fairer.

They advised him that he couldn't fire for cause.  But no one would overturn that firing after seeing the video.  They made a bad choice, a cowardly choice, and I couldn't care less that they think that it was a good decision simply because they agreed at a meeting.


The legal counsel that gave that advice has also resigned.
 
2013-04-06 07:55:43 AM  

NuttierThanEver: I am so glad the BigTen did its due dilgence before it decided to invite such a stable and well run sports program such as Rutgers to join.


Actually, Rutgers will fit in just fine with the stellar reputation and the ethical standards of B1G.

/Or at least the Eastern half.
 
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