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(Leesburg Today)   Guns are welcome on the premises. Please keep all firearms holstered unless the need arises. In such case, judicious marksmanship is greatly appreciated by all. Enjoy your meal   (leesburgtoday.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Leesburg, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Mississippi Delta, carrying a gun, cajuns, board of supervisors, Gun politics, Sandy Hook Elementary  
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10398 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Apr 2013 at 12:58 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 10:24:21 PM  
Doom MD:
Obtaining a ccw permit in my state costs more than the cost of obtaining a pistol and a lockbox for it. Not sure why you'd assume a person needs to buy an entire vault for a single gun.

Any safe that can be carried to a vehicle is pointless (nobody will bother opening it on the premises).  This is a great way to arm criminals.  Of course, arming criminals is a great way to sell guns, so most pro-gun propaganda ignores this.

/you can't imagine how impressed I was with a newspaper outing which houses had such wonderfully fenceable items.
 
2013-04-05 10:47:49 PM  

sammyk: In the state of Virginia, gun owners are allowed to openly carry a weapon without a permit, and consume alcohol. Servers are usually careful with those carrying firearms when serving alcohol, Leesburg Police Chief Joseph Price said.

"The individual with a firearm can consume alcohol," Price said, "but when you get intoxicated, that becomes a problem."
 Wow, I support the 2nd amendment and I like a drink or 12 every now and then. Mixing the two is just such a bad idea that there are not enough facepalms on the internet to convey the stupidity.


Yeah.  I object to the laws that say you can't carry in a place with alcohol but drinking is another matter entirely.  If you're carrying you should be at BAC 0.00.
 
2013-04-05 11:02:18 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Doom MD:
Obtaining a ccw permit in my state costs more than the cost of obtaining a pistol and a lockbox for it. Not sure why you'd assume a person needs to buy an entire vault for a single gun.

Any safe that can be carried to a vehicle is pointless (nobody will bother opening it on the premises).  This is a great way to arm criminals.  Of course, arming criminals is a great way to sell guns, so most pro-gun propaganda ignores this.

/you can't imagine how impressed I was with a newspaper outing which houses had such wonderfully fenceable items.


Did you ever think that the "pro-gun" side simply wants nothing more than continued use of the 2nd Amendment that some seem so intent on chipping away? If I own one gun, it doesn't go in a safe at the end of the day; it goes on my night stand. If you have more than one, by all means get a safe to lock them up when you're not at home.

I can't tell if your slashie is sarcastic or not. I hope to God it is.
 
2013-04-05 11:38:44 PM  

chuggernaught: I consider any civilian that wants to carry a firearm in public as mentally unstable.


Your irrationality, stupidity and ignorance is not a valid basis for public policy.
 
2013-04-05 11:41:30 PM  

It Smee: Now, that's just my opinion and I've been known to be wrong before.


Well, as much as I've heard that opinion, I've never actually met someone who is anything like what you just described. I'm sure that they exist somewhere, but my own experience says that they are the vast minority. So, I'd say that for the most part you are indeed wrong.
 
2013-04-05 11:48:36 PM  
Correct tag for story was 'awesome'.
 
2013-04-06 12:44:59 AM  

Dimensio: chuggernaught: I consider any civilian that wants to carry a firearm in public as mentally unstable.

Your irrationality, stupidity and ignorance is not a valid basis for public policy.


It's been my experience that people like Chuggernaught project their mental instability onto everyone else.   They can even imagine a emotionally stable people exist.
 
2013-04-06 12:47:15 AM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: ha-ha-guy: Ah yeah, open carry, so the impulse criminal knows all he has to do is bash you in the head with a rock and suddenly he has a gun.

Surely you wouldn't make a statement like this without being able to back it up with actual examples of it happening.

Surely.


Like this guy?

http://youtu.be/zx_YUO4SzcY

open carry is for morans.

/CCW holder.
 
2013-04-06 01:26:24 AM  

iheartscotch: While I like open carry; it's probably a good idea to consider what area of town you are going to be walking through. Some people tend to freeeeeak the fark out when they see someone who is open carrying; even when it is 100% legal.

/ I try not to frequent businesses that have the no ccw sign; it's kind of like sticking a sign out saying "rob me, please"


The sign need not apply to the business owner or employees.
 
2013-04-06 01:29:07 AM  
I want only open carry, no concealment.  I want to know who's packing heat near me and I want the benefit of his crime deterrence.
 
2013-04-06 01:31:25 AM  

arentol: Right now if you are in a state that allows CC a/o OC of the 100 adults closest to you who are not in a "Gun Free Zone", and who are not LEO's, at least one of them has a gun on them, and in most states odds are very very good that 5 or more are armed. Yet odds are also that you will never witness a shooting of any kind in your life.

Lawful carriers have been statistically shown to commit far less violent crimes than the average citizen. It is almost as if the sort of people that trust themselves to lawfully own and carry a firearm tend to be the kind of people who don't run around doing stupid, illegal, or dangerous things. How strange is that?


Isn't that special?  Is it remotely relevant really?

Ever actually do statistics in your life?

For example, if more cars on the road, do the odds of an accident occurring on the road during that time increase?  Or do the odds actually go down?

Here, let me dumb it down.  More guns out there means more opportunity for a simple mistake.  And the more guns in private homes means more chances for your honest, law-abiding citizens who mean no one any ill will at all, could end up seeing a family member or neighbor carried away in a body bag.

Ignoring for the moment that, of course, firearms are very expensive and usually a theft target.  So statistically with more guns out there, more will be stolen -- because careful owners of any property still...make MISTAKES.  And therefore more will guns will end up on the street and used by criminals.

You live in a world in which gun-wielding people only use firearms when necessary and they live in a sterile perfected world where mistakes are not made and people -- who owns lawful guns -- don't lose their cool and act stupidly or violently around the innocent, almost ever.

That perfected, sterile world doesn't exist.  It never existed.  Children are dying every week in this country from accidental shootings, many from guns owned by well-meaning people who would rather take a bullet than see any innocent blood shed.  They may be saints.  The children still bleed and die by mistake.

That's a problem your well-armed society doesn't answer or even try to answer except to say we take classes and buy gun safes....and the children still bleed and they still die.
 
2013-04-06 01:56:11 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: I want only open carry, no concealment.  I want to know who's packing heat near me and I want the benefit of his crime deterrence.


Then feel free to write to your state reps if you live in NYC, Texas, California, Illinois or a few other states. Open carry is essentially prohibited (or actually like in Illinois) because they feel that the general populace, especially in urban areas, would freak the fark out if people walked around with guns on their hips.
 
2013-04-06 03:52:27 AM  

wejash: arentol: Right now if you are in a state that allows CC a/o OC of the 100 adults closest to you who are not in a "Gun Free Zone", and who are not LEO's, at least one of them has a gun on them, and in most states odds are very very good that 5 or more are armed. Yet odds are also that you will never witness a shooting of any kind in your life.

Lawful carriers have been statistically shown to commit far less violent crimes than the average citizen. It is almost as if the sort of people that trust themselves to lawfully own and carry a firearm tend to be the kind of people who don't run around doing stupid, illegal, or dangerous things. How strange is that?

Isn't that special?  Is it remotely relevant really?

Ever actually do statistics in your life?

For example, if more cars on the road, do the odds of an accident occurring on the road during that time increase?  Or do the odds actually go down?

Here, let me dumb it down.  More guns out there means more opportunity for a simple mistake.  And the more guns in private homes means more chances for your honest, law-abiding citizens who mean no one any ill will at all, could end up seeing a family member or neighbor carried away in a body bag.

Ignoring for the moment that, of course, firearms are very expensive and usually a theft target.  So statistically with more guns out there, more will be stolen -- because careful owners of any property still...make MISTAKES.  And therefore more will guns will end up on the street and used by criminals.

You live in a world in which gun-wielding people only use firearms when necessary and they live in a sterile perfected world where mistakes are not made and people -- who owns lawful guns -- don't lose their cool and act stupidly or violently around the innocent, almost ever.

That perfected, sterile world doesn't exist.  It never existed.  Children are dying every week in this country from accidental shootings, many from guns owned by well-meaning people who would rather take ...


I am certain that you will be able to demonstrate that unintentional shootings increase following implementation of "shall-issue" based permit systems. I therefore eagerly await references to such data.
 
2013-04-06 03:53:54 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: I want only open carry, no concealment.  I want to know who's packing heat near me and I want the benefit of his crime deterrence.


Perhaps a compromise can be reached: individuals may carry concealed, creating a crime deterrent, but you will not know who they are unless they volunteer the information to you.
 
2013-04-06 04:11:54 AM  
The only weapons I need in a restaurant are a fork, a knife and a spoon.
 
2013-04-06 04:53:48 AM  

CameraMonkey: Like this guy?


A single data point makes for pretty poor statistics.
 
2013-04-06 08:39:36 AM  
This bears repeat(ed watching). I think my ribs will stop hurting some time after the 4th of july. The steroidal pinhead at the end is just...priceless. Compensation 101
 
2013-04-06 10:34:25 AM  

redmid17: Ned Stark: Dimensio: Ned Stark: Dimensio: Ned Stark: They should be able to know because you are able to end their life in a matter of seconds from dozens of yards away. Its a petty bi shift from the default assumption of being able to kids hurt them from one armlength away.

You may wish to advocate your position to Louisville police officers, who have informed me that they prefer citizens to carry concealed so that they are not bothered by reports of armed individuals from frightened observers.

Presumably people would be innoculated to the sight of guns within a month or two of the hypothetical open carry only ordinance and stop calling the police, but a couple of the thugs getting their lunch breaks ruined by panicked grannies is hardly something to trouble my sleep.

Perhaps advocates of requiring concealed weapons permit holders to make the public aware of the presence of a firearm upon their person could cite actual data justifying a need for such notice.

"Need"? I certainly haven't posited that it would save lives or any such thing. Only that people have a right to know when other people are carrying deadly weapons.

What's funny is that the states with the strictest gun laws have pretty much prohibited open carry.


Because the gun control movement is dominated by wild eyed radicals who don't have any position on guns other than they want them gone.
 
2013-04-06 10:35:21 AM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: CameraMonkey: Like this guy?

A single data point makes for pretty poor statistics.


Just citing an example, not a statistical analysis.
 
2013-04-06 11:16:04 AM  

CameraMonkey: Just citing an example, not a statistical analysis.


Ok, I can dig that. But if you want to consider the statistics, the chances of getting your gun grabbed due to OC are just stupidly low. Lower than the chances of using your gun. It's the sort of thing that tends to make the news (you'd better believe than it's going to get reported), and that story brings the number of confirmed incidents I've seen up to three. I've personally seen OC carry deter a crime that many times.

In short, if you want to convince me that "all OCers are morans", you're going to have to provide more than one example of an OCer being a moran.
 
2013-04-06 11:45:16 AM  

willfullyobscure: This bears repeat(ed watching). I think my ribs will stop hurting some time after the 4th of july. The steroidal pinhead at the end is just...priceless. Compensation 101


Wow.  Thank you so much, that made my morning!
 
2013-04-06 01:04:16 PM  
Stupid tag?  Submitter is a cocksucker.  There will never be a mass shooting here.  When someone starts shooting, the only way to stop them is to get another person with a gun on  the scene. This is why they call the police.  If someone is already on the scene with a gun, then the problem can be addressed without the police.
 
2013-04-06 01:14:17 PM  

HaywoodJablonski: This place is sure to be an oasis in the criminal hotbed of Leesburg

2010 Crime (Actual Data)* Incidents
Aggravated Assault 34
Arson 3
Burglary 42
Forcible Rape 13
Larceny and Theft 679
Motor Vehicle Theft 32
Murder and Manslaughter 0
Robbery 10
Crime Rate (Total Incidents) 827
Property Crime 753
Violent Crime


Yea, because it's easy to get a permit to carry in:

St. Louis, MO
Detroit, MI
Camden, NJ
Flint, MI
Oakland, CA
Richmond, CA
Cleveland, OH
Compton, CA
Gary, IN
Birmingham, AL

(top ten most dangerous cities in the US in 2012, according to the FBI)

not to mention:

New York City,
Philadelphia, PA
Chicago, IL
Washington, DC
Newark, NJ
Buffalo, NY

you know...where the crime actually is.
 
2013-04-06 03:27:54 PM  
sammyk

"The individual with a firearm can consume alcohol," Price said, "but when you get intoxicated, that becomes a problem."
Wow, I support the 2nd amendment and I like a drink or 12 every now and then. Mixing the two is just such a bad idea that there are not enough facepalms on the internet to convey the stupidity.
The idea that you go nuts just because you have had a glass of wine or beer with your dinner is as asinine as the idea that you go nuts because you have a sidearm on your person.



FlashHarry
tired-photo-shop.jpg
You seem obsessed with overweight men's genitals. We don't need to know that.
 
2013-04-06 04:52:28 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: CameraMonkey: Just citing an example, not a statistical analysis.


In short, if you want to convince me that "all OCers are morans", you're going to have to provide more than one example of an OCer being a moran.


Read The Art Of War. Since carrying a sidearm is technically part of a defensive "battle plan" you are an idiot  to broadcast your abilities to defend yourself. CC vs OC gives you the element of surprise. If you Got into a fistfight, would you tell the person "I'm gonna lead with a left hook and then a knee to the gut."? Of course not. So why tell your enemy " hey, I have a gun, so make sure you blindside me with your weapon drawn so I don't have a fighting chance."?


Yes, it's your right. But given its tactically more effective to CCW than OC  I think it's a bad idea. Not to mention those that aren't comfy with guns get freaky around you
 
2013-04-06 04:58:30 PM  

JoanHaus: Me, personally, I see a guy like that, with a gun, and I am anything BUT intimidated. One seriously hard slap in the face is all it's gonna take, to get that gun.


lol

noitsnot: dv-ous: master_dman: lostcat: dudicon: master_dman: All you scared whiny pussies can just stay away from this place.
I'm guessing this place won't be robbed.  EVER.

So the people who aren't so scared of the world they feel the need to be armed at all times are the pussies?

It's sad to me that there are people who sit in restaurants and worry that it may get robbed.

The thought has never occurred to me once in 42 years.

I've also never been in a situation where deadly force was neccessary to protect my life, or the lives of those around me.

Your right.. It's still relatively safe out there.

Chances are, you can go your whole life without ever needing to protect your life... but I suspect if it ever did come to that.. you will just curl into a ball in the corner and piddle yourself waiting for the cops to show up.

Cute.

What unarmed people under fire do.

Respect to those guys


Way to absorb those bullets, guys.
 
2013-04-06 04:58:52 PM  

MBrady: HaywoodJablonski: This place is sure to be an oasis in the criminal hotbed of Leesburg

2010 Crime (Actual Data)* Incidents
Aggravated Assault 34
Arson 3
Burglary 42
Forcible Rape 13
Larceny and Theft 679
Motor Vehicle Theft 32
Murder and Manslaughter 0
Robbery 10
Crime Rate (Total Incidents) 827
Property Crime 753
Violent Crime

Yea, because it's easy to get a permit to carry in:

St. Louis, MO
Detroit, MI
Camden, NJ
Flint, MI
Oakland, CA
Richmond, CA
Cleveland, OH
Compton, CA
Gary, IN
Birmingham, AL

(top ten most dangerous cities in the US in 2012, according to the FBI)

not to mention:

New York City,
Philadelphia, PA
Chicago, IL
Washington, DC
Newark, NJ
Buffalo, NY

you know...where the crime actually is.


In all fairness, it's actually pretty easy to get a CCW in Gary. Indiana doesn't really have much in the way of requirements and it's a shall issue state. As long as you can pony up about $150 bucks and pass an NICS check, you can get a lifetime CCW permit.
 
2013-04-07 12:08:39 AM  

CameraMonkey: Read The Art Of War. Since carrying a sidearm is technically part of a defensive "battle plan" you are an idiot to broadcast your abilities to defend yourself. CC vs OC gives you the element of surprise. If you Got into a fistfight, would you tell the person "I'm gonna lead with a left hook and then a knee to the gut."? Of course not. So why tell your enemy " hey, I have a gun, so make sure you blindside me with your weapon drawn so I don't have a fighting chance."?


I've read it, many times. I'm already farked because I have to ignore one of the first damn lessons and let my enemy pick the battle. The thing is, I don't want the element of surprise. If I have to 'surprise' someone with my sidearm, it's already too farking late. I'd just as soon avoid the situation entirely, and I feel that a good way to do that is by showing would-be attackers that I am armed and willing to defend myself. Yes, you may have practiced you concealed draw (I have myself, you'd be foolish not to if you're going to carry), and you might be pretty damn quick, but I don't care if you're Quickdraw farking McDraw, you'll never be faster than the gun that's already been pulled on you. If you have a gun pointed at you, you'd better A) be pretty farking confident in your disarming abilities, or B) be willing to kiss your wallet goodby, because you aren't going to draw before you get shot.

I've heard the argument that I'll either be the first person shot or I'm going to be smacked over the head for my gun over and farking over, but I've yet to see any evidence that the likelihood of either of those actually happening is above "technically possible". Again, I've only been shown as many examples of it happening as I have personal experiences (my own experiences, not ones I've heard from other people. If you want to go there, I have way more positive examples).

Let me put it to you this way; let's say I told you that you are in idiot for carrying concealed because you'll just snag your sight on your shorts trying to draw (I have actually seen this happen, fortunately it was just a practice session) and drop your gun, meaning you're now shot and the criminal has two guns. Let's say that to prove to you how reasonable my argument is (despite everything you know to the contrary), I provided exactly three examples of it happening. Would you say "Ok, good point, random guy on the internet. I'm going to stop carrying concealed now", or would you say "Dude, you're going to need a whole hell of a lot more evidence than three flukes if you want to convince me of anything."?
 
2013-04-07 12:23:31 AM  
We'll call it a "draw" (pun intended)  and agree to disagree.

There are pluses and minuses for both, and much like an abortion debate neither of us is going to sway the other.

I think the takeaway is bravo to us for being responsible citizens for being responsible for our own safety.
 
2013-04-07 01:25:56 AM  

CameraMonkey: We'll call it a "draw" (pun intended) and agree to disagree.


I'd have been fine with this if you didn't start out by calling the people who disagreed with you 'morans'. That's a recurring theme in the OC vs CC debate, OC proponents tend to prefer their method but don't care if you chose something else, CC proponents tend to prefer their method but will tell you that anyone who disagrees is a farking idiot. I don't care how you carry, or if you carry. I just want to be left alone. I don't want to sway you, because I want you to do whatever makes you comfortable, and as long as that doesn't harm me or mine I don't much care what that is.
 
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