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(Daily Mail)   You may think you've heard of tough battles, but try 11 Victoria Crosses awarded to members of 150 man force. Oh, and a forgotten man of that force has now been found   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 20
    More: Hero, Zulu, Battle of Rorke's Drift, Characters of Halo, bravery, reenactments, Queen Victoria  
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13061 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Apr 2013 at 9:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 09:17:50 AM
6 votes:
It's hard for me to use the word Hero for invading imperial forces killing native Zulus.
2013-04-05 09:32:40 AM
3 votes:
Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.
2013-04-05 10:30:54 AM
2 votes:

Nana's Vibrator: willfullyobscure: better check your colonial privilege, yo.

If your enemy outnumbers you 26+ to 1 and you win, it's not because you were incredibly brave.  It's because they were incredibly stupid.  The cheat code for "incredibly stupid enemy" is up up down down left right left right B A 007-373-5963, hold down the select button, then hit start.


They actually weren't that stupid. They were quite calculating and knew they faced a problem but thought they had the force to win. Once the cost of victory was around 10% of their force, they decided they were unwilling to pay the whole cost to finish the job. They chose not to win because the price was too steep, not because they were simply unable to.
2013-04-05 09:18:10 AM
2 votes:
Meh.Colonial Invader Problems.

Using rfiles against a multitude of shoeless black people with wooden spears and animal hide shields shouting "Where Dem White Wimmin At?" isn't all that brave in my book.
2013-04-05 01:49:44 PM
1 votes:

vygramul: PunGent: TheShavingofOccam123: Listen. For sheer bravery you cannot top air-conditioned B-29s flying low-level, facing virtually no effective anti-aircraft measures, dropping thousands upon thousands of incendiaries on civilians WHO LIVE IN WOODEN HOUSES.  Roasting 100,000 civilians in one night is a mighty brave and heroic deed.

Then LeMay got effiecient and started dropping one bomb at a time. Twice.

/amidoinitrite

Civilians who were propping up a murderous government that killed 250,000 unarmed Chinese civilians after the Doolittle raid?  In a war they started?

My sympathy is limited.

In a war THEY started? Lrn2history. We cut off their oil, and "No blood for oil" only applies to the U.S.

/iamdoinitrite


http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/worldwarii/a/wwiipaccauses_2.htm

We embargoed Japan because they were busy raping the shiate out of China.  They were already at war on the Korean peninsula and mainland China.  But, nice attempt at revisionist.  You know, the US actually has done a lot of honorable things contrary to your total "US=EVIL-ALL-THE-TIME" mentality.
2013-04-05 11:17:42 AM
1 votes:
Just because a war was wrong doesn't mean the men fighting in it weren't heroic.

The real lesson from the Battle of Rorke's Drift is how important military technology is. It wasn't just that the British firearms were superior to the Zulu muskets and spears, but it was also the technology of the fortifications the British built. Shooting from a loophole seems obvious to us, but the Zulu didn't realize how devastating it would be.

Rorke's Drift was also very significant because of the propaganda it provided for the British after the defeat at Isandlwana.
2013-04-05 11:02:08 AM
1 votes:

RichieLaw: This gleeful description of the deaths of thousands of individuals was chilling.


Why?  I mean, if you *HAVE* to kill someone, shouldn't you be cheerful about it?  After all, you're ending their life.  In all likelihood, you're the last thing that person is going to see.  Why should they go out on a somber note?  Wouldn't you rather die bemused, or, in fact, even chuckling or guffawing, then in sadness, fear, or abject terror?  I know I would.
2013-04-05 10:57:21 AM
1 votes:

TheShavingofOccam123: On the "mad minute" using the Lee-Enfield rifle:

When WWI broke out, the small British Expeditionary Force was sent to France to assist the French and Belgians. The German Kaiser supposedly referred to the BEF as "a contemptible little army", so the cheeky soldiers adopted it as their own and called themselves "The Old Contemptibles". With both the French and Belgians in retreat early in the war, the Old Contemptibles were thrown into the breech to halt the German advance.

At Mons, eight batallions of German infantry crashed into two batallions of the BEF. The Mad Minute began. One German officer described it: "Well entrenched and completely hidden, the enemy opened a murderous fire...the casualties increased...the rushes became shorter, and finally the whole advance stopped...with bloody losses, the attack gradually came to an end."

Private Smiley of the Gordon Highlanders described the British end of things. "Poor devils! They advanced in companies of quite 150 men in files five deep, and our rifle has a flat trajectory up to 600 yards. Guess the result. We could steady our rifles on the trench and take deliberate aim. The first company was mown down by a volley at 700 yards, and in their insane formation every bullet was almost sure to find two billets. The other companies kept advancing very slowly, using their dead comrades as cover, but they had absolutely no chance."

At Mons and then again at the First Battle of Ypres, often against overwhelming odds, the Old Contemptibles ground the German advance down with their rifles. Near Oburg, a few companies of the BEF stopped an entire German regiment, and were froced to retire only when two additioin regiments attacked them. When the flanks (not held by British forces) caved in, 2nd Battalion of the Royal Munster Fusiliers covered the retreat. This single batallion, although nearly decimated itself, held the line against nine enemy batallions.

In an after-action report, one Prussian officer estimated that the British had at least 28 machine guns per batallion. In reality, they had only TWO machine guns per batallion. All that firepower came from bolt-action rifles in the hands of men well-trained in their use.


This gleeful description of the deaths of thousands of individuals was chilling.
2013-04-05 10:43:15 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: Nana's Vibrator: willfullyobscure: better check your colonial privilege, yo.

If your enemy outnumbers you 26+ to 1 and you win, it's not because you were incredibly brave.  It's because they were incredibly stupid.  The cheat code for "incredibly stupid enemy" is up up down down left right left right B A 007-373-5963, hold down the select button, then hit start.

They actually weren't that stupid. They were quite calculating and knew they faced a problem but thought they had the force to win. Once the cost of victory was around 10% of their force, they decided they were unwilling to pay the whole cost to finish the job. They chose not to win because the price was too steep, not because they were simply unable to.


That merely proves my saying that I use in gun control threads:  You don't have to actually be able to *WIN*, you just have to make it too expensive for the other side to win.
2013-04-05 10:28:26 AM
1 votes:
Listen. For sheer bravery you cannot top air-conditioned B-29s flying low-level, facing virtually no effective anti-aircraft measures, dropping thousands upon thousands of incendiaries on civilians WHO LIVE IN WOODEN HOUSES.  Roasting 100,000 civilians in one night is a mighty brave and heroic deed.

Then LeMay got effiecient and started dropping one bomb at a time. Twice.

/amidoinitrite
2013-04-05 10:22:48 AM
1 votes:

willfullyobscure: better check your colonial privilege, yo.


If your enemy outnumbers you 26+ to 1 and you win, it's not because you were incredibly brave.  It's because they were incredibly stupid.  The cheat code for "incredibly stupid enemy" is up up down down left right left right B A 007-373-5963, hold down the select button, then hit start.
2013-04-05 10:00:18 AM
1 votes:

I'm no expert but...: r1niceboy: Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

Bravo sir. You are awarded an FC (Fark Cross) for courage above and beyond the call of posting.


I prefer the US 7th Cav at Washiata River where they bravely faught the women and children and then bravely ran away when the warriors arrived.

/Gary Owen!
2013-04-05 09:54:58 AM
1 votes:
Let's be honest.  Even at 150 vs. 4000, it was probably like entering a cheat code.
2013-04-05 09:53:13 AM
1 votes:
Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift essentially occurred at the same time. If it had not been for Bromhead, Chard and the men of B/2/24, it would have been an even worse day for Lord Chelmsford.

Suggested reading:

Zulu Rising by Ian Knight
Like Wolves in the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift by Mike Snook
Washing of the Spears by Donald R. Morris
Brave Men's Blood: The Epic of the Zulu War, 1879 by Ian Knight
Great Zulu Battles: 1838-1906 by Ian Knight

The Zulus were anything BUT helpless Africans. The Army sent against Chelmsford's Center column was something like 20,000 strong. One of the most powerful and well-organized armies in South Africa.
2013-04-05 09:44:28 AM
1 votes:

doubled99: I don't think we should glorify killing people.
Couldn't they have just talked out their differences?


The Brits didn't develop tactical hugging technology until decades after this.
2013-04-05 09:41:30 AM
1 votes:

SevenT: r1niceboy: If you want real heroism snafu, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

FTFY


What about My Lai, that one was done on purpose
2013-04-05 09:33:15 AM
1 votes:

stellarossa: dittybopper: Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.

Me too, despite knowing they didn't sing that at any point.

/english regiment


Yes, but it's still a classic bit of cinema, even if it plays fast and loose with the truth.
2013-04-05 09:27:57 AM
1 votes:
*RTFA*

Oh, those guys.
Yeah, big brave white men.

Fark 'em.
2013-04-05 09:27:21 AM
1 votes:

GungFu: Meh.Colonial Invader Problems.

Using rfiles against a multitude of shoeless black people with wooden spears and animal hide shields shouting "Where Dem White Wimmin At?" isn't all that brave in my book.


1/10 Started well, ends weak.
2013-04-05 08:43:55 AM
1 votes:
Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.
 
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