dittybopper: Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.

Me too, despite knowing they didn't sing that at any point.

/english regiment

Me three. I think I'll have to watch the movie this weekend.

It's hard for me to use the word Hero for invading imperial forces killing native Zulus.

Meh.Colonial Invader Problems.

Using rfiles against a multitude of shoeless black people with wooden spears and animal hide shields shouting "Where Dem White Wimmin At?" isn't all that brave in my book.

Seems like rather flimsy "proof"

Stiglitz?

GungFu: Meh.Colonial Invader Problems.

Using rfiles against a multitude of shoeless black people with wooden spears and animal hide shields shouting "Where Dem White Wimmin At?" isn't all that brave in my book.

1/10 Started well, ends weak.

*RTFA*

Oh, those guys.
Yeah, big brave white men.

Fark 'em.

Brave?     I think the Brits shot some of their own people before the battle even started.

Not like the soliders had much of an option but to stay and shoot things up a bit....

Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

r1niceboy: Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

Bravo sir. You are awarded an FC (Fark Cross) for courage above and beyond the call of posting.

r1niceboy: If you want real heroism snafu, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

FTFY

Lots of Garnet Wolsleys in this thread.

netcentric: Brave?     I think the Brits shot some of their own people before the battle even started.

Not like the soliders had much of an option but to stay and shoot things up a bit....

Yeah, they shot at some who were running away, and killed an NCO. I don't think they were ordered to do so, IIRC they were just pissed off at seeing them run.

I don't think we should glorify killing people.
Couldn't they have just talked out their differences?

doubled99: I don't think we should glorify killing people.
Couldn't they have just talked out their differences?

The Brits didn't develop tactical hugging technology until decades after this.

GungFu: Meh.Colonial Invader Problems.

Using rfiles against a multitude of shoeless black people with wooden spears and animal hide shields shouting "Where Dem White Wimmin At?" isn't all that brave in my book.

Never heard of the Battle of Isandlwana, have you?

/damn kids

stuhayes2010: It's hard for me to use the word Hero for invading imperial forces killing native Zulus.

^ This.

I still feel bad about Michael Caine, though.  He was a good guy.

r1niceboy: Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

And the Indians weren't supposed to fight back!  Those Indians sure are sneaky.

Battling Zulus, eh?

Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift essentially occurred at the same time. If it had not been for Bromhead, Chard and the men of B/2/24, it would have been an even worse day for Lord Chelmsford.

Suggested reading:

Zulu Rising by Ian Knight
Like Wolves in the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift by Mike Snook
Washing of the Spears by Donald R. Morris
Brave Men's Blood: The Epic of the Zulu War, 1879 by Ian Knight
Great Zulu Battles: 1838-1906 by Ian Knight

The Zulus were anything BUT helpless Africans. The Army sent against Chelmsford's Center column was something like 20,000 strong. One of the most powerful and well-organized armies in South Africa.

Let's be honest.  Even at 150 vs. 4000, it was probably like entering a cheat code.

Nana's Vibrator: Let's be honest.  Even at 150 vs. 4000, it was probably like entering a cheat code.



better check your colonial privilege, yo.

I'm no expert but...: r1niceboy: Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

Bravo sir. You are awarded an FC (Fark Cross) for courage above and beyond the call of posting.

I prefer the US 7th Cav at Washiata River where they bravely faught the women and children and then bravely ran away when the warriors arrived.

/Gary Owen!

That was a truly brutal war.
My great-grandad lost a leg in that battle.
Some question as to whether it was from a mosquito or a tiger...

trotsky: Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift essentially occurred at the same time. If it had not been for Bromhead, Chard and the men of B/2/24, it would have been an even worse day for Lord Chelmsford.

Suggested reading:

Zulu Rising by Ian Knight
Like Wolves in the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift by Mike Snook
Washing of the Spears by Donald R. Morris
Brave Men's Blood: The Epic of the Zulu War, 1879 by Ian Knight
Great Zulu Battles: 1838-1906 by Ian Knight

The Zulus were anything BUT helpless Africans. The Army sent against Chelmsford's Center column was something like 20,000 strong. One of the most powerful and well-organized armies in South Africa.

Silly thing is Rorke's Drift only happened because the Zulu reserve after the victory at Isandlwana ignored the kings orders to defend Zululand and went on a raid instead.

dittybopper: stellarossa: dittybopper: Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.

Me too, despite knowing they didn't sing that at any point.

/english regiment

Yes, but it's still a classic bit of cinema, even if it plays fast and loose with the truth.

I agree. However, it's not like they realistically had much of a choice to make in terms of flight or fight: the slow wagon train wouldn't have made it but a couple of miles and certainly not all the way to Helpmakaar before being totally overrun.

But yes, I can't begin to imagine the thoughts running through these soldier's heads as they came perilously close to being overrun, only the foresight of Chard and Dalton to have an inner redoubt constructed saved them (a necessity once the NNC left in a panic).

trotsky: Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift essentially occurred at the same time. If it had not been for Bromhead, Chard and the men of B/2/24, it would have been an even worse day for Lord Chelmsford.

Suggested reading:

Zulu Rising by Ian Knight
Like Wolves in the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift by Mike Snook
Washing of the Spears by Donald R. Morris
Brave Men's Blood: The Epic of the Zulu War, 1879 by Ian Knight
Great Zulu Battles: 1838-1906 by Ian Knight

The Zulus were anything BUT helpless Africans. The Army sent against Chelmsford's Center column was something like 20,000 strong. One of the most powerful and well-organized armies in South Africa.

Brave Men's Blood I thought was excellent. Ex-military author was able to poke fun at military stuff.

dittybopper: stellarossa: dittybopper: Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.

Me too, despite knowing they didn't sing that at any point.

/english regiment

Yes, but it's still a classic bit of cinema, even if it plays fast and loose with the truth.

Here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NuTaQsMNaE

Don't you. Point that bloody spear at me.

Well, bravo zulu!

willfullyobscure: better check your colonial privilege, yo.

If your enemy outnumbers you 26+ to 1 and you win, it's not because you were incredibly brave.  It's because they were incredibly stupid.  The cheat code for "incredibly stupid enemy" is up up down down left right left right B A 007-373-5963, hold down the select button, then hit start.

Zulus..... serpentine,     SERPENTINE !

Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us

/... and a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it.

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us

/... and a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it.

Colour-Sergeant Bourne was just AWESOME.

Ah, the bravery of colonial imperialism. I miss those days.

Fear the Clam: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x354]

Daaaaaaaavid Jeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnkins!

at least he's got (Kentucky Fried) chicken.

Ah, the Victoria Cross, like a Diet Purple Heart.