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(Daily Mail)   You may think you've heard of tough battles, but try 11 Victoria Crosses awarded to members of 150 man force. Oh, and a forgotten man of that force has now been found   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 137
    More: Hero, Zulu, Battle of Rorke's Drift, Characters of Halo, bravery, reenactments, Queen Victoria  
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13062 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Apr 2013 at 9:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 08:43:55 AM
Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.
 
2013-04-05 09:13:11 AM

dittybopper: Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.


Me too, despite knowing they didn't sing that at any point.

/english regiment
 
2013-04-05 09:15:42 AM
Me three. I think I'll have to watch the movie this weekend.
 
2013-04-05 09:17:50 AM
It's hard for me to use the word Hero for invading imperial forces killing native Zulus.
 
2013-04-05 09:18:10 AM
Meh.Colonial Invader Problems.

Using rfiles against a multitude of shoeless black people with wooden spears and animal hide shields shouting "Where Dem White Wimmin At?" isn't all that brave in my book.
 
2013-04-05 09:26:28 AM
Seems like rather flimsy "proof"
 
2013-04-05 09:27:01 AM
Stiglitz?
 
2013-04-05 09:27:21 AM

GungFu: Meh.Colonial Invader Problems.

Using rfiles against a multitude of shoeless black people with wooden spears and animal hide shields shouting "Where Dem White Wimmin At?" isn't all that brave in my book.


1/10 Started well, ends weak.
 
2013-04-05 09:27:57 AM
*RTFA*

Oh, those guys.
Yeah, big brave white men.

Fark 'em.
 
2013-04-05 09:28:11 AM
Brave?     I think the Brits shot some of their own people before the battle even started.

Not like the soliders had much of an option but to stay and shoot things up a bit....
 
2013-04-05 09:32:40 AM
Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.
 
2013-04-05 09:33:15 AM

stellarossa: dittybopper: Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.

Me too, despite knowing they didn't sing that at any point.

/english regiment


Yes, but it's still a classic bit of cinema, even if it plays fast and loose with the truth.
 
2013-04-05 09:37:59 AM

r1niceboy: Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.


Bravo sir. You are awarded an FC (Fark Cross) for courage above and beyond the call of posting.
 
2013-04-05 09:38:08 AM

r1niceboy: If you want real heroism snafu, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.


FTFY
 
2013-04-05 09:39:59 AM
Lots of Garnet Wolsleys in this thread.
 
2013-04-05 09:41:30 AM

SevenT: r1niceboy: If you want real heroism snafu, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

FTFY


What about My Lai, that one was done on purpose
 
2013-04-05 09:41:49 AM

netcentric: Brave?     I think the Brits shot some of their own people before the battle even started.

Not like the soliders had much of an option but to stay and shoot things up a bit....


Yeah, they shot at some who were running away, and killed an NCO. I don't think they were ordered to do so, IIRC they were just pissed off at seeing them run.
 
2013-04-05 09:41:59 AM
I don't think we should glorify killing people.
Couldn't they have just talked out their differences?
 
2013-04-05 09:44:28 AM

doubled99: I don't think we should glorify killing people.
Couldn't they have just talked out their differences?


The Brits didn't develop tactical hugging technology until decades after this.
 
2013-04-05 09:45:26 AM

GungFu: Meh.Colonial Invader Problems.

Using rfiles against a multitude of shoeless black people with wooden spears and animal hide shields shouting "Where Dem White Wimmin At?" isn't all that brave in my book.


Never heard of the Battle of Isandlwana, have you?



/damn kids
 
2013-04-05 09:46:27 AM

stuhayes2010: It's hard for me to use the word Hero for invading imperial forces killing native Zulus.


^ This.

I still feel bad about Michael Caine, though.  He was a good guy.
 
2013-04-05 09:47:49 AM

r1niceboy: Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.


And the Indians weren't supposed to fight back!  Those Indians sure are sneaky.
 
2013-04-05 09:53:11 AM
Battling Zulus, eh?
 
2013-04-05 09:53:13 AM
Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift essentially occurred at the same time. If it had not been for Bromhead, Chard and the men of B/2/24, it would have been an even worse day for Lord Chelmsford.

Suggested reading:

Zulu Rising by Ian Knight
Like Wolves in the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift by Mike Snook
Washing of the Spears by Donald R. Morris
Brave Men's Blood: The Epic of the Zulu War, 1879 by Ian Knight
Great Zulu Battles: 1838-1906 by Ian Knight

The Zulus were anything BUT helpless Africans. The Army sent against Chelmsford's Center column was something like 20,000 strong. One of the most powerful and well-organized armies in South Africa.
 
2013-04-05 09:54:58 AM
Let's be honest.  Even at 150 vs. 4000, it was probably like entering a cheat code.
 
2013-04-05 09:56:16 AM

Nana's Vibrator: Let's be honest.  Even at 150 vs. 4000, it was probably like entering a cheat code.


encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

better check your colonial privilege, yo.
 
2013-04-05 10:00:18 AM

I'm no expert but...: r1niceboy: Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

Bravo sir. You are awarded an FC (Fark Cross) for courage above and beyond the call of posting.


I prefer the US 7th Cav at Washiata River where they bravely faught the women and children and then bravely ran away when the warriors arrived.

/Gary Owen!
 
2013-04-05 10:13:25 AM
That was a truly brutal war.
My great-grandad lost a leg in that battle.
Some question as to whether it was from a mosquito or a tiger...

i125.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-05 10:13:44 AM

trotsky: Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift essentially occurred at the same time. If it had not been for Bromhead, Chard and the men of B/2/24, it would have been an even worse day for Lord Chelmsford.

Suggested reading:

Zulu Rising by Ian Knight
Like Wolves in the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift by Mike Snook
Washing of the Spears by Donald R. Morris
Brave Men's Blood: The Epic of the Zulu War, 1879 by Ian Knight
Great Zulu Battles: 1838-1906 by Ian Knight

The Zulus were anything BUT helpless Africans. The Army sent against Chelmsford's Center column was something like 20,000 strong. One of the most powerful and well-organized armies in South Africa.


Silly thing is Rorke's Drift only happened because the Zulu reserve after the victory at Isandlwana ignored the kings orders to defend Zululand and went on a raid instead.
 
2013-04-05 10:15:11 AM

dittybopper: stellarossa: dittybopper: Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.

Me too, despite knowing they didn't sing that at any point.

/english regiment

Yes, but it's still a classic bit of cinema, even if it plays fast and loose with the truth.


I agree. However, it's not like they realistically had much of a choice to make in terms of flight or fight: the slow wagon train wouldn't have made it but a couple of miles and certainly not all the way to Helpmakaar before being totally overrun.

But yes, I can't begin to imagine the thoughts running through these soldier's heads as they came perilously close to being overrun, only the foresight of Chard and Dalton to have an inner redoubt constructed saved them (a necessity once the NNC left in a panic).
 
2013-04-05 10:17:19 AM

trotsky: Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift essentially occurred at the same time. If it had not been for Bromhead, Chard and the men of B/2/24, it would have been an even worse day for Lord Chelmsford.

Suggested reading:

Zulu Rising by Ian Knight
Like Wolves in the Fold: The Defence of Rorke's Drift by Mike Snook
Washing of the Spears by Donald R. Morris
Brave Men's Blood: The Epic of the Zulu War, 1879 by Ian Knight
Great Zulu Battles: 1838-1906 by Ian Knight

The Zulus were anything BUT helpless Africans. The Army sent against Chelmsford's Center column was something like 20,000 strong. One of the most powerful and well-organized armies in South Africa.


Brave Men's Blood I thought was excellent. Ex-military author was able to poke fun at military stuff.
 
2013-04-05 10:19:12 AM

dittybopper: stellarossa: dittybopper: Great.  Now I've got "Men of Harlech" running through my brain.

Me too, despite knowing they didn't sing that at any point.

/english regiment

Yes, but it's still a classic bit of cinema, even if it plays fast and loose with the truth.


Here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NuTaQsMNaE
 
2013-04-05 10:21:33 AM
Don't you. Point that bloody spear at me.

www.wearysloth.com
 
2013-04-05 10:22:45 AM
Well, bravo zulu!
 
2013-04-05 10:22:48 AM

willfullyobscure: better check your colonial privilege, yo.


If your enemy outnumbers you 26+ to 1 and you win, it's not because you were incredibly brave.  It's because they were incredibly stupid.  The cheat code for "incredibly stupid enemy" is up up down down left right left right B A 007-373-5963, hold down the select button, then hit start.
 
2013-04-05 10:28:26 AM
Listen. For sheer bravery you cannot top air-conditioned B-29s flying low-level, facing virtually no effective anti-aircraft measures, dropping thousands upon thousands of incendiaries on civilians WHO LIVE IN WOODEN HOUSES.  Roasting 100,000 civilians in one night is a mighty brave and heroic deed.

Then LeMay got effiecient and started dropping one bomb at a time. Twice.

/amidoinitrite
 
2013-04-05 10:28:45 AM

Thudfark: Don't you. Point that bloody spear at me.


hypervocal.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com 

You're not doing it right - and you're not using the broken voice when he gets emotional. He gets very emotional indeed.

"She was only sixteen years old. SHE WAS ONLY SIXTEEN YEARS OLD! YOU WERE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BLOW THE BLOODY DOORS OFF!"

That's Michael Caine
 
2013-04-05 10:29:45 AM
 He faced ten thousand Zulu warriors armed to the teeth with kiwi fruit and dry guava halves.He even saved the life of Douglas Haig when he was nearly killed by a pygmy woman with a sharpened mango.
 
2013-04-05 10:30:54 AM

Nana's Vibrator: willfullyobscure: better check your colonial privilege, yo.

If your enemy outnumbers you 26+ to 1 and you win, it's not because you were incredibly brave.  It's because they were incredibly stupid.  The cheat code for "incredibly stupid enemy" is up up down down left right left right B A 007-373-5963, hold down the select button, then hit start.


They actually weren't that stupid. They were quite calculating and knew they faced a problem but thought they had the force to win. Once the cost of victory was around 10% of their force, they decided they were unwilling to pay the whole cost to finish the job. They chose not to win because the price was too steep, not because they were simply unable to.
 
2013-04-05 10:31:55 AM
Zulus..... serpentine,     SERPENTINE !
 
2013-04-05 10:32:03 AM
Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us

/... and a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it.
 
2013-04-05 10:34:46 AM

stuhayes2010: It's hard for me to use the word Hero for invading imperial forces killing native Zulus.


The funny thing is that most leadership of most nations/cultures/tribes/whathaveyou are a bunch of farkwads who did ugly things to their fellow people to become their leadership. I don't respect any of them.
 
2013-04-05 10:35:19 AM
i.dailymail.co.uk

Daaaaaaaavid Jeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnkins!
 
2013-04-05 10:36:48 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us

/... and a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it.


Colour-Sergeant Bourne was just AWESOME.
 
2013-04-05 10:37:33 AM
Any warrior who can invent a devastating weapon, develop new tactics using it and name it after the sound it makes when it's pulled from you victim's body, is a pretty tough dude.

I'm just sorry Shaka didn't name his new spear the "Poit!".
 
2013-04-05 10:41:58 AM
Ah, the bravery of colonial imperialism. I miss those days.
 
2013-04-05 10:42:05 AM

Fear the Clam: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x354]

Daaaaaaaavid Jeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnkins!


at least he's got (Kentucky Fried) chicken.
 
2013-04-05 10:42:40 AM

Clash City Farker: I'm no expert but...: r1niceboy: Those Limeys were all cowards. If you want real heroism, try the US 7th cavalry at Wounded Knee.

Bravo sir. You are awarded an FC (Fark Cross) for courage above and beyond the call of posting.

I prefer the US 7th Cav at Washiata River where they bravely faught the women and children and then bravely ran away when the warriors arrived.

/Gary Owen!


How about Fort Pillow?
 
2013-04-05 10:42:44 AM
Ah, the Victoria Cross, like a Diet Purple Heart.
 
2013-04-05 10:43:15 AM

vygramul: Nana's Vibrator: willfullyobscure: better check your colonial privilege, yo.

If your enemy outnumbers you 26+ to 1 and you win, it's not because you were incredibly brave.  It's because they were incredibly stupid.  The cheat code for "incredibly stupid enemy" is up up down down left right left right B A 007-373-5963, hold down the select button, then hit start.

They actually weren't that stupid. They were quite calculating and knew they faced a problem but thought they had the force to win. Once the cost of victory was around 10% of their force, they decided they were unwilling to pay the whole cost to finish the job. They chose not to win because the price was too steep, not because they were simply unable to.


That merely proves my saying that I use in gun control threads:  You don't have to actually be able to *WIN*, you just have to make it too expensive for the other side to win.
 
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