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(Kotaku)   It's amazing how many high-level execs refuse to learn that "always on and connected" is not a good thing   (kotaku.com) divider line 237
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8322 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Apr 2013 at 8:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 10:14:06 AM  

Hiro Nakamura: scottydoesntknow: RoxtarRyan: Hiro Nakamura: So what I'm hearing is fark me if I have to deploy to another shiathole and want to take my games with me.

Nailed it. My first thought. "Awesome, so I deploy again, no more MWR tents with consoles and whatnot, since we aren't going to be able to dedicate a portion of our bandwidth simply for videogames".

Has anyone told him to think of the troops? I'd like to hear his answer on that.

I know you're just snarkin' but it's just one example of a portion of the market that will be excluded. My family lives in southern Illinois and can only get 1M download speeds still- on a good day. I live in the middle of a decent sized city with Charter and a fiber optic alternative so it's not an issue for me until I want to take me system outside of my home. Literally anywhere else I travel to on a regular basis won't afford me he same opportunity that I have at my house.


Honestly no snark. One of the few things that still pulls at big corporations is the "Think of the troops!" angle. Not trying to cheapen what they do, but they do have quite a bit of say. You piss of the military folks and you'll get a lot of hate.
 
2013-04-05 10:14:27 AM  

Cyno01: He kinda has a point. Yeah it sucks for rural folks without access to broadband, but internet has become a utility. They didnt used to be able to get electricity out in the sticks either, did that stop anyone from selling electric lights? If my power goes out frequently do i biatch that all my stupid devices need to be plugged in to work, or do i biatch about my power company?


Internet, however, does not work the same was as electricity. Internet uses a "best effort" to get things here from there, not any kind of failsafe. As a result, the internet doesn't only go out during blizzards, as power does, but will commonly go out for a few milliseconds, even regular seconds, because of network congestion, switching problems upstream, router issues, etc. depending on your provider. Usually, this is too small to notice or an inconvenience for a human user, but if a console is requiring a steady heartbeat, this is impossible for a semi-large percentage of the userbase.

SimCity only required a connection once every twenty minutes, apparently. Many of the always-on games turned that knob ridiculously high to the point where active games, connected to the internet and doing everything right mind you, would time out and take you back to the start menu without saving, simply because the connection packets were lost en route. This isn't the result of someone "not having" internet; it's the fundamental principle the internet is based on: best effort and fairshare of network traffic. This is going to happen at frequency, there is nothing you can do about it, and anyone requiring a consistent internet connection at this level is not going to have their games playable because of it.
 
2013-04-05 10:16:07 AM  
I'm going to be running a video game tournament at a bar I work at, and have to be very careful to pick out games that offer local, same-system multiplayer. What ever happened to being able to do offline LAN multiplayer without having to go through a server hundreds or thousands of miles away?
 
2013-04-05 10:16:30 AM  

thurstonxhowell: t3knomanser: What does that have to do with anything? The cost of the physical copy, when produced in bulk, is pennies per disc. The retail space isn't exactly a lot, either. Cheaper than books, and the mass-market paperbacks are already so cheap that they're basically considered disposable goods by the industry (which is why unsold books are supposed to be destroyed).

The retailer's gotta get a cut. They're not a charity. The cost of each unit may be vanishingly small, but the cut of profits that the retailer takes is not.

Lack of physical products or need to kickback money to console manufacturers is what allows downloadable PC games to be so, so much cheaper than console games.


Well, when you factor in sales at least.  At release, most pc games are just as expensive as console games these days, despite the lower costs.  Console games fall fairly quickly at retail these days though, seeing as you can pick up one for $20 off within a month or two, and usually in the bargain bin in six months.

Most PC games sales come at release, the tail seems to be much shorter in terms of profits.  Hence why you see them giving them away for 75% off during a few days of a steam sale a few times a year.  Granted after the sale ends they rise back to around the same costs as their console retail brethren.
 
2013-04-05 10:18:07 AM  

RoxtarRyan: I'm going to be running a video game tournament at a bar I work at, and have to be very careful to pick out games that offer local, same-system multiplayer. What ever happened to being able to do offline LAN multiplayer without having to go through a server hundreds or thousands of miles away?


Publishers have no control over that. Lost source of revenue. Unacceptable.

Quake 3 let you change the last character of your serial number and get a new key. Was fantastic for LAN parties.
 
2013-04-05 10:18:19 AM  
Tweeted this just now.

@ adam_orth Hmm, I must have missed that day in B school when we were taught to tell customers to #dealwithit if they didn't like a feature.


I'd say it was the attitude more than anythign else that is attracting ire.  It's not like he said "whats the big deal guys?" but more like "too bad jerks".

thatboyoverthere: nocturnal001: Alonjar: I can see both sides of the argument.  Players look at it from the perspective of being farked over by Activision/EA shiatting on their customers by cheaping out and not placing appropriate server infrastructure for their always online games, combined with horrible cost cutting based programming and flawed software design.  So we hate it.

Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers.  So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

I agree in general with the "get with the times" statement though... different people have different priorities, but I for example take my internet connection seriously, and it is one of the primary factors I look at when moving and choosing a home.  If its got bullshiat internet, no thanks.  Next.

/Microsoft exec still a douche though

So if they now make me have it, do I get to stop paying them 60 a year for it?

This is all about piracy, period. Modding consoles is such a pita that its not like it is ever going to be widespread.

The major flaw here (same with EA) is that they piss off their paying customers just to keep some others for getting their stuff for free. Guess what guys? You can probably not convert pirates to paying customers. This business model may reduce piracy, but at a cost to total revenue.

Actually I pirate all the time but manily due to lack of funds. A lot of the games that I pirate and love I wind up buying later on.
/Especially when it's the Steam Sale. I make sure to do my best to get money when that happens.
//And the humble bundle, and the Indy Bundle.
///What I'm trying to say is lower your prices game industry. You no longer need physical copies to sell games anymore.


If you were stopped from Pirating tomorrow somehow, would you instead buy all of those pirated gamed?
 
2013-04-05 10:18:28 AM  
Oh and slightly off topic but after a hard day of work in the desert there's nothing more glorious than having six blocks of RLBs, all with 50-100 xboxes, wired to the same LAN. There's always a guarantee of at least a few people on and playing the same game.

/Although troubleshooting a rat's nest of cat-5 that covers a couple hundred rooms can be a huge ass pain
//not to mention TCNs that will come by and snag a 50 foot cross-building cable every now and then
///slashies come in threes
 
2013-04-05 10:19:33 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Dimensio: What are you purchasing? When I last priced video cards, they were more expensive than any current generation game console.

I'm running a card I bought a year and a half ago for $100. As far as I know, it will run every game out there. Sometimes I don't get to crank all the settings to the max, but I still get better visuals than consoles. Plus, with Steam sales, I have a huge backlog of games I bought incredibly cheaply.

If you're attached to having a controller, for some reason, XBox controllers work great on the PC.


I actually prefer using a mouse for first-person shooters, which is why I purchased an XBox 360 mouse.
 
2013-04-05 10:21:19 AM  
I was looking forward to the 720 because I skipped the 360. Now? Well now I'm just glad I put together a sweet PC rig in January. Because the way things look I won't be picking up any next Gen console.
 
2013-04-05 10:21:46 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Honestly no snark. One of the few things that still pulls at big corporations is the "Think of the troops!" angle. Not trying to cheapen what they do, but they do have quite a bit of say. You piss of the military folks and you'll get a lot of hate.


I ended up mastering Soul Calibur 2 on one deployment on the PS2. Wrote the publisher of the game a couple years after when I got home (don't know why, just wanted to say thanks for the fun game), and they sent me a copy of the 3rd one, thanking me for my service. I like it when companies treat their users right, and while going that far isn't really required or expected, it definitely made my day. I didn't even open the game, actually. Just mailed it back out to the guys overseas, and hoped it gave other guys some good down time.
 
2013-04-05 10:22:02 AM  

uttertosh: "Sometimes the electricity goes out. I will not buy a vacuum cleaner."

orly?!?


I read that and did a double take.  I can't believe he tweeted that.  I'm waiting for the "Oh, my account was hacked!" excuse to roll out in the upcoming days.
 
2013-04-05 10:22:42 AM  

KhamanV: Maybe if the US's internet infrastructure and speed weren't actually made up of a giant bowl of dicks trying to operate a treadmill, we could revisit this discussion with more depth on both sides of the debate.  Until then, the situation is fairly shiat.


Whoa.  Hold up.  Telco Engineer here.  Please do not mistake the national fiberoptic infrastructure with your local residential provider.

The fiber between cities and coasts is excellent.  It's your local ISP who refuses to invest in their network and maintenance that is the problem.  Have you ever been inside your local central office?

lh3.ggpht.com

This is not uncommon.
 
2013-04-05 10:22:50 AM  
I've said it before and I'll say it again. While it might seem petty, I alone dictate how my internet is used. I pay for my internet and there's a cap on my usage. How does a publisher, console maker or game studio figure they get to decide how the limited service that I pay for is used. It doesn't matter if they're pushing 1k an hour. They don't have the right to use up my bandwidth. I will not be purchasing a console or any game that requires a constant connection, with the obvious exception of online games (MMO's, multiplayers, etc.)
 
2013-04-05 10:23:59 AM  
What a douche. I'd love to know where this turd lives if he never experiences outages.

/looking forward to a Microsoft-free world.
 
2013-04-05 10:25:07 AM  

italie: narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


It is nice to know that some farkers have a little common sense.



Huh? Where do you guys work? No, common sense is "do not piss off potential customers in a public forum by saying something stupid".  I'm not nearly as high in my org chart as this guy is, and I know better than to get on twitter and tell my customers to "deal with it". Should this be a firable offense? Probably not, but if I were his boss I've give him a damned hard talking to.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7683848/83436054#c83436054" target="_blank" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7683848/83436054#c8 3436054">randomjsa: If my customer base was willing to put up with the hardware failure rate of the 360 during its early life and continued to do business with me I'd be pretty confident that nothing I could do would ever turn them against me... Ever. I would even go so far as to get confused when they actually got upset about something.

I've always said that no product could ever have the failure rate of the 360 and remain on the market... I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a high end video card had that kind of failure rate.

Or even better, a hard drive.

Hell even a NIC with that kind of failure rate would turn a million IT people against your company forever.

But a console? Please sir, may I have another?


Apples and oranges my friend. How many companies build graphics cards? How many build consoles?

The 360 failure rate was horrible, and MS did pay the price in terms of a crap ton of warranty fixes and defective returns. I went through either 3 or 4 machines within the first year but the one I had after that is still running.

People still buy Toyotas and they actually killed people due to their failure rate.
 
2013-04-05 10:25:23 AM  
One third of the country doesn't have broadband internet. So you're gonna shut those people out, but if they don't have broadband they're probably troglodytes anyway, amirite?

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/08/119-million-americans-lack-b ro adband-internet-fcc-reports/
 
2013-04-05 10:27:25 AM  

enik: What a douche. I'd love to know where this turd lives if he never experiences outages.


I'd like to know where he lives so he can experience cut cables and EM signal Jamming.
 
2013-04-05 10:29:24 AM  

s1ugg0: Antimatter: Flappyhead: You'd think after Sony royally farked the PS3 launch and essentially gave XBOX who knows how many millions as a result Microsoft would have learned not to piss off the fanbase prior to a new system release.

Third console syndrome is in effect.  The xbox did well, and the 360 did excellent in some areas, so MS is seemingly adopting the same thing that sony did for the ps3 and Nintendo for the N64:  make the device they want, gamers be damned.  After all, they think they have a captive audience.

I was always an Xbox player because the PS3 line up didn't appeal to me.  What happened with the PS3 launch?

/Too lazy to google


Well, a bit of history I guess is in order.

You see, the ps1 had been a wild success, because of a combo of excellent marketing, low cost games, some killer exclusives, and ease of development.  Sony was able to popularize games for the teenagers and above crowd, who traditionally had shunned games as something for younger kids.

The success went to their heads, and the ps2 was something of a step back.  the games were a tad priceier, but still below snes and n64 games.  the console was difficult to dev for as well, turning away some developers (most notably team ninja and oddworld).  But the marketing and exclusives remained, and the console was an even bigger hit then before.  It also popularized DVD sales in many areas by putting some 150 million players in the hands of folks who had no issues spending money on entertainment.

So Ken K, the man who designed both consoles, was given free reign.  He spent hundreds of millions on the CELL processor and had grand designs for it's use in industry and entertainment.  They let him stick the brand new, and very pricy blu-ray drive in the ps3, hoping to popularize the format like they did for DVD.  He went with split pools of XDR and DDR ram, at great expense as well.  the console was even more difficult to program then before.

The result was a $499/599 console, still sold at a huge loss, who lost even more exclusives, had poor marketing, and basically drained the company coffers that had been filled by ps1 and ps2 sales.  CELL, for all their pipedreams, couldn't' do what they wanted it to, and found itself replaced by low power ARM processors in their desired applications.  Sales plummeted, and they had to scramble to redesign the innards multiple times to reduce costs.  Ken K would lose his position as a result, and never designed another playstation product.

About the only win was in blu-ray, which thanks in part to it, was able to overcome HD-DVD and become the new standard for media.

The ps4 is largely an aftershock of the ps3's massive failure in terms of profits.  It's based on PC style X86-64, an AMD apu, unified gddr5 ram, with some sony specific tweaks in some areas.  It was designed form the ground up by a legendary game designer with lots of input from other developers.  It's been near universally praised from them as a result.
 
2013-04-05 10:32:00 AM  

StrangeQ: nocturnal001: I seriously might not buy the new Xbox if its always on.

Yes, you will.  And they know it.

It doesn't matter what kind of abuse game and console developers pile on gamers, they will always come back and buy because they are hopelessly and pathetically addicted.


Blah, nonsense.  If that were true the other several dozen or so game consoles that were created would still be here. Philips CDI, Sega, etc. Sure they will still sell a lot of machines, but are they really so hard up for always on that they would risk selling 10% fewer?  This is particularly relevant as the gaming base is maturing in age rapidly (all those children of the 80s have money to burn now) and cheap tech combined with could services are bringing in more gaming options.

There are case studies by the thousands disecting the failures of products whose developers told themselves "meh, they will buy this item no matter what".
 
2013-04-05 10:32:49 AM  
My current XBox360 is NOT connected to the internet - because it's on the other side of the house from my internet line and I sure as hell am not running that cable myself.  I purchased Microsoft's "wireless" connector for a $50 ripoff and it promptly refused to recognize my home wifi and insisted that it needed to be connected to the internet to install updates.  Catch-22 anyone?

So if this genius can't figure out why always on is bad, then he deserves to get fired or at least be honest about WHY he wants "always on" and that he doesn't give two shiats about the customer.
 
2013-04-05 10:34:35 AM  
I have an issue with the Internet and my Xbox right now. I have the house wired. I use a Media Room pvR which has player software on the Xbox.

When playing stuff from the PvR it stops and starts, like the bandwidth is confined. Thing is, if I plug it into the wall (Ethernet), it works fine. Introduce any other device in between (brand new GB switch, or router used as switch) and it starts doing this infuriating shiat. I tested different cables and unless 3 of 4 cables are bad, that's not it. Both switches can't be bad.

They really expect me to buy this when my Xbox connection drops every 5 minutes?
 
2013-04-05 10:35:52 AM  

China White Tea: The analogy using a vacuum cleaner and electricity is farking idiotic.  Most vacuum cleaners strictly require electricity by the nature of the device itself, whereas an always-on internet connection is only a "requirement" by virtue of some asshole exec deciding to make it a requirement.


This ^
Plus, I game practically every day. I only need to vacuum once in March after I take down the Christmas tree and occasionally at other times when the dog explodes.
 
2013-04-05 10:36:45 AM  
What's more common?  Losing electricity or internet connection?  I'm willing to bet internet connection.
 
2013-04-05 10:37:56 AM  

cefm: My current XBox360 is NOT connected to the internet - because it's on the other side of the house from my internet line and I sure as hell am not running that cable myself.  I purchased Microsoft's "wireless" connector for a $50 ripoff and it promptly refused to recognize my home wifi and insisted that it needed to be connected to the internet to install updates.  Catch-22 anyone?

So if this genius can't figure out why always on is bad, then he deserves to get fired or at least be honest about WHY he wants "always on" and that he doesn't give two shiats about the customer.


Hmm, mine always worked great.  You could also buy a cheap wireless bridge, somewhat less expensive and can accept multiple devices.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7683848/83437283#c83437283" target="_blank" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7683848/83437283#c8 3437283">MadSkillz: I have an issue with the Internet and my Xbox right now. I have the house wired. I use a Media Room pvR which has player software on the Xbox.

When playing stuff from the PvR it stops and starts, like the bandwidth is confined. Thing is, if I plug it into the wall (Ethernet), it works fine. Introduce any other device in between (brand new GB switch, or router used as switch) and it starts doing this infuriating shiat. I tested different cables and unless 3 of 4 cables are bad, that's not it. Both switches can't be bad.

They really expect me to buy this when my Xbox connection drops every 5 minutes?


 I had to give my 360 a dedicated IP as it fipped out whenever I had a wireless conflict.
 
2013-04-05 10:42:29 AM  
If this is a requirement I will not buy.
I currently own all of the current gen consoles, and a high end gaming pc.

If they do this they clearly do not want my money.

If they do not do this or block used games then I will buy one the day it comes out.
 
2013-04-05 10:44:18 AM  

Fubini: One third of the country doesn't have broadband internet. So you're gonna shut those people out, but if they don't have broadband they're probably troglodytes anyway, amirite?

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/08/119-million-americans-lack-b ro adband-internet-fcc-reports/


even if you have broadband there's no guarantee of consistent service from your local ISP or from the servers on the other end, there's also no guarantee that the developers will have built a system strong enough to handle traffic, there's no guarantee that the publishers will put enough money in to handle the overhead, there's no guarantee that said publishers won't pull the plug anyways, and there's no guarantee that other variables won't factor into your connection going down

i mean PC gamers have already been through this - i've been through this - and it's not in any way shape or form a better experience than offline accessible games

and while i have good broadband access, it's not uncommon for the connection to shiat itself on its own - either going down or just slowing down

there's just no reason at all
 
2013-04-05 10:46:47 AM  

RoxtarRyan: Looks like this guy is taking a page from the EA playbook of having contempt for your userbase. Hopefully he'll also go the way the last EA CEO did with their shiat release of their "always on" game.


Did Orth work under Peter Moore?  Because I wouldn't be surprised if they share that philosophy.  Moore probably took some of those ideas to EA Sports.
 
2013-04-05 10:48:55 AM  

s1ugg0: KhamanV: Maybe if the US's internet infrastructure and speed weren't actually made up of a giant bowl of dicks trying to operate a treadmill, we could revisit this discussion with more depth on both sides of the debate.  Until then, the situation is fairly shiat.

Whoa.  Hold up.  Telco Engineer here.  Please do not mistake the national fiberoptic infrastructure with your local residential provider.

The fiber between cities and coasts is excellent.  It's your local ISP who refuses to invest in their network and maintenance that is the problem.  Have you ever been inside your local central office?

[lh3.ggpht.com image 640x480]

This is not uncommon.


Going for a soundbite in a Fark thread, but yes, the situation is considerably more complicated.  I know the actual 'backbones' are generally terrific, but there's a lack of consistent quality especially as compared to other infrastructures elsewhere.
 
kab
2013-04-05 10:51:10 AM  
While he's an asshole for *how* he said that, one thing is certain.   If the next gen consoles are always on-line, gamers most certainly will yell and write strongly worded emails / posts, but buy it anyhow.

Gamers will put up with all sorts of shiat as long as they can play.
 
2013-04-05 10:52:15 AM  

Antimatter: The ps4 is largely an aftershock of the ps3's massive failure in terms of profits.  It's based on PC style X86-64, an AMD apu, unified gddr5 ram, with some sony specific tweaks in some areas.  It was designed form the ground up by a legendary game designer with lots of input from other developers.  It's been near universally praised from them as a result.


Good to know, because my PS3 is just an overpriced Blu-Ray player, I don't play any games on it. It sounds like the PS4 though is going to be the X-Box killer and the X-Box 720 (What a stupid name) is going to suck donkey balls.
 
2013-04-05 10:52:20 AM  

nocturnal001: and I know better than to get on twitter and tell my customers to "deal with it".


He didn't say that to a customer, he said that to a developer who he knows and is friends with who works at Bioware.  It got turned into a bigger deal because people were freaking out about the rumors spread by Kotaku earlier in the day that the next Xbox would be always connected, despite no announcement or confirmation of such by Microsoft.

Still as a creative director at the company, and the history of dumb shiat blowing up in people's facing on twitter, he should be more careful about how he responds to even friends publicly.
 
2013-04-05 10:52:28 AM  
Google rolled out their fiber service in parts of KC here.  Just not where I live.  For now I'm stuck with Timewarner which is just about the worst TV and Internet I've had. (lived in a dozen cities and 4 states so far)
 
2013-04-05 10:56:07 AM  

kab: While he's an asshole for *how* he said that, one thing is certain.   If the next gen consoles are always on-line, gamers most certainly will yell and write strongly worded emails / posts, but buy it anyhow.

Gamers will put up with all sorts of shiat as long as they can play.


Sadly true.

/the new gamestation requires colorectal DRM
//but at least it screens for polyps and prostate cancer while it's farking you in the ass.
 
2013-04-05 10:57:33 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: He didn't say that to a customer, he said that to a developer who he knows and is friends with who works at Bioware. It got turned into a bigger deal because people were freaking out about the rumors spread by Kotaku earlier in the day that the next Xbox would be always connected, despite no announcement or confirmation of such by Microsoft.


He DID respond to customers.

He told them he wouldn't buy a vaccum because sometimes his power goes out.

And he told people to move where the internet is if they want to play Xbox.  (Sam Kinnison was the only one who ever pulled that joke off)
 
2013-04-05 10:59:51 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Dimensio: What are you purchasing? When I last priced video cards, they were more expensive than any current generation game console.

I'm running a card I bought a year and a half ago for $100. As far as I know, it will run every game out there. Sometimes I don't get to crank all the settings to the max, but I still get better visuals than consoles. Plus, with Steam sales, I have a huge backlog of games I bought incredibly cheaply.

If you're attached to having a controller, for some reason, XBox controllers work great on the PC.


All of this.

/except my card only cost $60
//Black Friday sales are awesome
 
2013-04-05 11:00:27 AM  
Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.
 
2013-04-05 11:01:31 AM  
So your choices are:

1.  Buy a console that is really just a 2-3 year old PC that cannot be upgraded, for $500-$600.  Also, buy a subscription so you can play online.
2.  Spend an extra $100-$200 up front (You will get this money back by not paying sub fees and lower costs of games) and build a PC that will run cross-platform games faster and at higher graphical settings.  No subscription fees.  Games that frequently go on sale for 25%-75% off, and often cost $10-$20 less than their inferior counterparts at launch.  Also, you can upgrade whenever YOU want, so you won't be stuck with the same ancient hardware 7 years down the line.  In another 3-5 years, when the cost of the consoles has cut in half, and all the worthwhile exclusives are discounted in Greatest Hits editions, buy the console and enjoy the handful of great titles that aren't on PC.

I'll be sticking with the PC, as I always have and always will.  I own a Wii and PS3 as well, but they aren't even close to my PC in terms of gaming potential.
 
2013-04-05 11:02:18 AM  

fluffy2097: Lumbar Puncture: He didn't say that to a customer, he said that to a developer who he knows and is friends with who works at Bioware. It got turned into a bigger deal because people were freaking out about the rumors spread by Kotaku earlier in the day that the next Xbox would be always connected, despite no announcement or confirmation of such by Microsoft.

He DID respond to customers.

He told them he wouldn't buy a vaccum because sometimes his power goes out.

And he told people to move where the internet is if they want to play Xbox.  (Sam Kinnison was the only one who ever pulled that joke off)


That right there is a stupid enough statement to deserve heat. Sorry, we all don't live in San Fran or Redmond.  KC is actually a fairly large tech hub in the scheme of things, many of the neighborhoods around me start at 1million plus, and my internet blows.
 
2013-04-05 11:05:25 AM  

R66YRobo: Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.


This man knows how business is done.
 
2013-04-05 11:12:44 AM  

fluffy2097: Lumbar Puncture: He didn't say that to a customer, he said that to a developer who he knows and is friends with who works at Bioware. It got turned into a bigger deal because people were freaking out about the rumors spread by Kotaku earlier in the day that the next Xbox would be always connected, despite no announcement or confirmation of such by Microsoft.

He DID respond to customers.

He told them he wouldn't buy a vaccum because sometimes his power goes out.

And he told people to move where the internet is if they want to play Xbox.  (Sam Kinnison was the only one who ever pulled that joke off)


From what I read it just seemed like he was saying that he doesn't mind always on devices, and then said a bunch of smart assed comments, but not directed specifically at customers.  I make smart assed comments and bad jokes on my twitter often, but like I said he should be more aware of his social media presence given his position, even if he isn't the public face of the company.

I saw him say something about how he wouldn't live out of the city, but nothing telling others to move, but I might've missed it.  His twitter is locked now.

I think the whole thing is pretty ridiculous.
 
rpm
2013-04-05 11:13:01 AM  

randomjsa: I've always said that no product could ever have the failure rate of the 360 and remain on the market... I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a high end video card had that kind of failure rate.

Or even better, a hard drive.


Nothing? Western Digital Green had huge failure rates because of a design flaw.
 
2013-04-05 11:13:18 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: Still as a creative director at the company, and the history of dumb shiat blowing up in people's facing on twitter, he should be more careful about how he responds to even friends publicly.


This... he should know better then to post a comment like that to twitter.  That said until the console is announced it's idle speculation... even if they are considering things like an always on connection and no used games doesn't mean they are going to happen.  After all rumors on the internet are always true.  If that's the case I guess the $799 PS4 is reality since Sony hasn't officially announced the price but the rumor is out there.
 
2013-04-05 11:14:50 AM  

R66YRobo: Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.


sure, that's the reality of life is that everything doesn't fit the mold we want things to fit, and even if we want things to fail - doesn't mean it'll happen

but the nice thing is that nobody is forcing you to buy an xbox, and there are many good alternatives to buying it

so if the xbox turns you off, don't buy it and move on with your life, simple as that
 
2013-04-05 11:15:26 AM  
Agree with him or not, being a closed-minded dick on Twitter is never the way to go.
 
2013-04-05 11:16:45 AM  
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-04-05 11:20:09 AM  

s1ugg0: KhamanV: Maybe if the US's internet infrastructure and speed weren't actually made up of a giant bowl of dicks trying to operate a treadmill, we could revisit this discussion with more depth on both sides of the debate.  Until then, the situation is fairly shiat.

Whoa.  Hold up.  Telco Engineer here.  Please do not mistake the national fiberoptic infrastructure with your local residential provider.

The fiber between cities and coasts is excellent.  It's your local ISP who refuses to invest in their network and maintenance that is the problem.  Have you ever been inside your local central office?

[lh3.ggpht.com image 640x480]

This is not uncommon.


I am good friends with someone who works on the switch equipment for our local telco, I can verify that this indeed is pretty farking common.

...and scary when you think about it.
 
2013-04-05 11:26:36 AM  

Gergesa: Alonjar: Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers. So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

It is a draconian method for trying to counter piracy and it is insulting in the extreme because it treats all customers as presumed guilty.

I absolutely will not purchase products like this from any company and any company who pursues this type of policy will be inciting ill will in their potential customer base.


There is also the more practical point - if you really love a game, and it has always online DRM, and you want to play it again in 10, 20, 30 years time, will you be able to? It is one thing when the DRM is built into a profit centre (like Steam for example) so their is a financial incentive to keep things running way into the future, but for pure online activation, or like the SimCity servers, sooner or later the costs of running them will get those switched off, and then you are stuck unless some hack or fan solution comes along.

It has already been bad enough with PC disk checking DRM some variants of which tend to break a good fraction of games each time a new version of Windows comes out - sometimes this gets fixed over time by the DRM company, but that is another thing you can't rely on forever, or in a few cases I have managed to get de-DRMed versions of the game exe from the developers where the DRM technology no longer gets updated, But there are dozens of games I have that require XP (and a couple that require Windows 98, like Warhammer Shadow of the Horned Rat), which means eventually those games will be difficult to play again, and the vast majority seem to relate to incompatability with the DRM, much fewer have other issues (like graphics card/direct X version, or the OS, or whatever). The only hope then is someone like Steam or GOG or some similar future services pick them up eventually so you can buy them again.
 
2013-04-05 11:36:44 AM  
I purchased an Xbox and an Xbox 360; if the new iteration requires a constant internet connection, I will not buy one. #dealwithit
 
2013-04-05 11:40:24 AM  

nocturnal001: italie: narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


It is nice to know that some farkers have a little common sense.


Huh? Where do you guys work? No, common sense is "do not piss off potential customers in a public forum by saying something stupid".  I'm not nearly as high in my org chart as this guy is, and I know better than to get on twitter and tell my customers to "deal with it". Should this be a firable offense? Probably not, but if I were his boss I've give him a damned hard talking to.



Hey, Captain Observant...I'm on your side.


//Context.
 
2013-04-05 11:45:25 AM  

fluffy2097: Those soldiers in Kandahar should really get with the times and get internet.

I mean, the Taliban provides Internet doesn't it?

And those people on submarines have internet too.

Internet is now a fundamental human right in the military. like water. So you can enjoy it anywhere

/if there is any argument for not making a console online it is the fact you are farking over members of the military by doing so.
//They deserve all the fun time they want.


Deployments and TDYs are bad. Stationed in another country for a long amount of time is worse. I couldn't get any of the American servers perks of XBox Live while i was in England. Some of the games wouldn't download because they saw my xbox as being in Europe and some of those games weren't clear for launch in that area (DOOM on XBLA for example). Also the Indie games wouldn't operate without an active connection to XBL. After about two months i let the subscription lapse because the headaches weren't worth it. Also, screw BT and their damned data caps and their legal monopoly in rural England.

I only illustrate that example because i lived it, i couldn't imagine trying it in other parts of the world. I had thought England would've been the best case scenario. It also sucked because of the whole PAL/NTSC issues that i had as well.

/tl;dr, I could ONLY play single player games that i bought second hand. If i had to do that during this upcoming console generation, i would go on a murderous rampage.
 
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