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(Kotaku)   It's amazing how many high-level execs refuse to learn that "always on and connected" is not a good thing   (kotaku.com) divider line 237
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8322 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Apr 2013 at 8:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 08:01:28 AM  
This guy's a damn idiot. Whether you agree with always online or not, having someone at Microsoft telling their customers to "deal with it" is unacceptable. If I told one of our customers that at my place of employment, my ass would be on the street within the hour.

When are people going to learn that if you are employed, you are a representative of the company you are with whether you are clocked in to work or not, and you can't just say stupid crap like this online? Are people that idiotic?

Jesus, dude. Just shut up.
 
2013-04-05 08:08:40 AM  
I know more than 6 people who have a 360 with no internet connection, which also handicaps them when somebody releases a shiatty game that  needs a launch day patch and can't get it (ie Walking Dead)
I also know a few people without a console or internet who will never buy a console if it means they also have to get the internet.
 
2013-04-05 08:08:50 AM  
"Sometimes the electricity goes out. I will not buy a vacuum cleaner."

orly?!?
 
2013-04-05 08:09:21 AM  
That guy must post here at Fark with that attitude.

What an asshat. Give me one benefit to ME in having an always on system? I have a time warner cable and my net goes out quite a bit. Plus MS recently had their cloud system go down and had to issue credits as an apology.

I'm an avid gamer with a busy life. If I find an hour to play and I can't? Rage time. I seriously might not buy the new Xbox if its always on.
 
2013-04-05 08:09:22 AM  

Keywork99: This guy's a damn idiot. Whether you agree with always online or not, having someone at Microsoft telling their customers to "deal with it" is unacceptable. If I told one of our customers that at my place of employment, my ass would be on the street within the hour.

When are people going to learn that if you are employed, you are a representative of the company you are with whether you are clocked in to work or not, and you can't just say stupid crap like this online? Are people that idiotic?

Jesus, dude. Just shut up.


Look, obviously their customers will get over it.
 
2013-04-05 08:15:02 AM  
I can see both sides of the argument.  Players look at it from the perspective of being farked over by Activision/EA shiatting on their customers by cheaping out and not placing appropriate server infrastructure for their always online games, combined with horrible cost cutting based programming and flawed software design.  So we hate it.

Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers.  So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

I agree in general with the "get with the times" statement though... different people have different priorities, but I for example take my internet connection seriously, and it is one of the primary factors I look at when moving and choosing a home.  If its got bullshiat internet, no thanks.  Next.

/Microsoft exec still a douche though
 
2013-04-05 08:15:10 AM  
Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.
 
2013-04-05 08:21:29 AM  
Well that was certainly a creative response from their creative director. I doubt the marketing team is too happy, and the sales folks generally frown upon shiatting on potential buyers.
 
2013-04-05 08:21:45 AM  

Alonjar: I can see both sides of the argument.  Players look at it from the perspective of being farked over by Activision/EA shiatting on their customers by cheaping out and not placing appropriate server infrastructure for their always online games, combined with horrible cost cutting based programming and flawed software design.  So we hate it.

Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers.  So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

I agree in general with the "get with the times" statement though... different people have different priorities, but I for example take my internet connection seriously, and it is one of the primary factors I look at when moving and choosing a home.  If its got bullshiat internet, no thanks.  Next.

/Microsoft exec still a douche though


So if they now make me have it, do I get to stop paying them 60 a year for it?

This is all about piracy, period. Modding consoles is such a pita that its not like it is ever going to be widespread.

The major flaw here (same with EA) is that they piss off their paying customers just to keep some others for getting their stuff for free. Guess what guys? You can probably not convert pirates to paying customers. This business model may reduce piracy, but at a cost to total revenue.
 
2013-04-05 08:25:31 AM  

Alonjar: I can see both sides of the argument.  Players look at it from the perspective of being farked over by Activision/EA shiatting on their customers by cheaping out and not placing appropriate server infrastructure for their always online games, combined with horrible cost cutting based programming and flawed software design.  So we hate it.

Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers.  So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

I agree in general with the "get with the times" statement though... different people have different priorities, but I for example take my internet connection seriously, and it is one of the primary factors I look at when moving and choosing a home.  If its got bullshiat internet, no thanks.  Next.

/Microsoft exec still a douche though


Well then. That's pretty much what I came in here the post but with better grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

My brother is one of these people he complains to about how he can't afford an internet connection and shells out more money for cable television. Palm this is face. Face I'd like to introduce you to palm.
 
2013-04-05 08:26:50 AM  
It's amazing how many high-level execs refuse to learn that "always on and connected" is not a good thing from their mistakes and blame it on someone else.

Not so much FTFSubby, but more like a epidemic when it comes to execs, period.
 
2013-04-05 08:31:39 AM  
It's been five years since I was in the Gamestop trenches, and I imagine the numbers are slightly different now.  When I gave up being the manager and went back to grad school in the fall of 2007, we had just gone through the Madden/NCAA 08 releases and were preparing for the Halo 3 launch.  I would say that at least 40% of my customers did not have access to broadband internet, and therefore had no ability to play the games online.  Shadowrun was released that same summer, and its sales were terrible not just because the game wasn't much good, but because customers of mine who were willing to preorder it did not do so because it was online-only, and if you didn't live within Time-Warner's fiefdom there was no way you were getting anything other than 56k through Embarq out in the county.

That has changed in Wilson County, though.  Everyone in the city now has access to municipal fiberoptic, and the plan is to expand that to everyone in the county very soon.  But it's only one small semi-rural county 45 minutes from a major metropolitan area (not counting the whole "Time-Warner paid the state legislature to make it illegal for other towns to do the same thing").  This is Orth's problem; he lives in Redmond or somewhere within that part of the Seattle metro area.  I'm sure there's not a neighborhood within 25 miles of him that doesn't have access to broadband.  But places like eastern North Carolina aren't like that, and I wonder when was the last time Orth lived in an area with less than 1,500 people/sq mi.
 
2013-04-05 08:33:23 AM  

Alonjar: Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers. So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.


It is a draconian method for trying to counter piracy and it is insulting in the extreme because it treats all customers as presumed guilty.

I absolutely will not purchase products like this from any company and any company who pursues this type of policy will be inciting ill will in their potential customer base.
 
2013-04-05 08:35:39 AM  
And what happens when their servers go away? Are they going to run them forever?
 
2013-04-05 08:39:06 AM  
I know people with XBox 360s who don't have a reliable internet connection, because the terrible ISP they use is the only one with service where they live.

Blame the ISPs, not the customers. If Microsoft wants an always-online console, they should lobby congress to reform our horrible internet infrastructure first.
 
2013-04-05 08:39:41 AM  
Oh, and "Oh, Snap!"

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-05 08:43:13 AM  

Kiribub: Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.


Problem is that the PS4 looks like garbage as well. I don't need a constant twitter feed running on the side while I play a game, thanks.

If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.
 
2013-04-05 08:45:03 AM  
It looks like I'm going to have to go PC next gen. The exclusives are all meh and this nonsense will not stand.
 
2013-04-05 08:45:10 AM  
I have a 360, I play games occasionally. I don't have a Live subscription, and likely never will. I like to play by myself, I don't play anything online, I don't like the idea of playing a game connected to strangers online. That's just me. I like to pop in a game disk, shoot some bad guys for a while, then turn it off and go back to my life. I'll play again later, in a week or a month. I don't need or want any of the online features, and I certainly don't want to pay $60 for them.
If that's my only option when it comes to buying a new console, I'll hang on to my 360 until I can no longer get games for it, then shop around for a different platform.
 
2013-04-05 08:46:36 AM  

Klivian: Kiribub: Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.

Problem is that the PS4 looks like garbage as well. I don't need a constant twitter feed running on the side while I play a game, thanks.

If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.


Join the glorious master PC gaming race!
 
2013-04-05 08:46:45 AM  
members.iglou.com
 
2013-04-05 08:46:50 AM  
I'm not believing anything till they get into launch mode with this new console.
Right now its all "heard it from a guy" type rumors.  Most of which are either malicious or outright fabrications to drag people into clicking on websites.

I'm saving my jimmies for when Microsoft has actually said something.
 
2013-04-05 08:46:52 AM  
Yes in a market where you want maximum saturation it obviously is a wise idea to force your product to require a connection service in for that market where the saturation for that connection service is poorly distributed and often times unreliable.

facepalm.jpg
 
2013-04-05 08:47:21 AM  
D'oh. Wrong discussion. I apologize.
 
2013-04-05 08:47:24 AM  

Gergesa: Alonjar: Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers. So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

It is a draconian method for trying to counter piracy and it is insulting in the extreme because it treats all customers as presumed guilty.

I absolutely will not purchase products like this from any company and any company who pursues this type of policy will be inciting ill will in their potential customer base.


I don't see this one being an anti-piracy measure. I mean they definitely make it harder/impossible to pirate games but they also gain control over the used game market which console makers have been trying to do forever. Combine that with the "Sell the game with a bunch of shiat disabled and sell those disabled bits a piece at a time after the fact." school of game design and I think those are more likely the thinking.

I am glad I stuck with PCs for gaming, even if every major studio goes for always on DRM crap there's enough indy studios that are quite willing to just sell you the game. Currently sinking time into Don't Starve which is stupidly fun... like a soft core version of Dwarf Fortress with nice graphics.
 
2013-04-05 08:48:04 AM  
Telling customers to "deal with it" is bad, but it's only a symptom. Believing -- behind closed doors -- that consumers should just "deal with it" is the disease. It's a deadly disease.
 
2013-04-05 08:48:23 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Klivian: Kiribub: Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.

Problem is that the PS4 looks like garbage as well. I don't need a constant twitter feed running on the side while I play a game, thanks.

If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.

Join the glorious master PC gaming race!


But I've owned multiple consoles in each generation! I don't know if I have enough snob/douchebaggery in me...
 
2013-04-05 08:48:27 AM  

way south: I'm saving my jimmies for when Microsoft has actually said something.


Well, Microsoft did say  something. That "something" was a stream of insults and mockery directed at their customers.
 
2013-04-05 08:49:02 AM  
My argument against online consoles:

Sometimes I just don't want to play with others. And I don't want them messaging me. Or calling me and saying "I see you're online, wanna play? Why not?".
 
2013-04-05 08:49:52 AM  
He's right though, they will 'get over it' and they will buy it.  Video gamers aren't that bright and have demonstrated time and time again that they'll settle for an obscenely large dong in their ass just so long as they get to look at the shiny shiny.

There are even segments of the market who are proud to defend the dong in their ass simply because it has an EA or Activision or Blizzard logo tattooed on it.   The '720' could require daily kitten sacrifices and it'd still fly off the damn shelves.
 
2013-04-05 08:51:06 AM  

Klivian: Kiribub: Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.

Problem is that the PS4 looks like garbage as well. I don't need a constant twitter feed running on the side while I play a game, thanks.

If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.


Welcome friend. It's a good time to jump onboard. For the price of a new console, you can make a pretty good gaming box. Do it.
 
2013-04-05 08:52:51 AM  

drewsclues: Klivian: Kiribub: Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.

Problem is that the PS4 looks like garbage as well. I don't need a constant twitter feed running on the side while I play a game, thanks.

If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.

Welcome friend. It's a good time to jump onboard. For the price of a new console, you can make a pretty good gaming box. Do it.


What are you purchasing? When I last priced video cards, they were more expensive than any current generation game console.
 
2013-04-05 08:53:35 AM  
Make it an enviornment issue.

Microsoft contributes to global warming by requiring an always on internet connection. Why does microsoft hate polar bears?

Tweet that make it viral get in their faces fair share etc....
 
2013-04-05 08:54:16 AM  

Dimensio: When I last priced video cards, they were more expensive than any current generation game console.


The thing you have to keep in mind is that, these days, most games are targeted towards consoles. This means that even on the PC, their hardware requirements are angled towards 5 year old hardware.
 
2013-04-05 08:55:20 AM  
So what I'm hearing is fark me if I have to deploy to another shiathole and want to take my games with me.
 
2013-04-05 08:55:31 AM  

ModernLuddite: My argument against online consoles:

Sometimes I just don't want to play with others. And I don't want them messaging me. Or calling me and saying "I see you're online, wanna play? Why not?".


Appropriate response for appropriate handle

Us old folks just want to play with ourselves... is that so bad?
 
2013-04-05 08:56:07 AM  
Wow, if I were to act like that with a potential customer at my job I'd be fired on the spot.. Way to alienate your fanbase there arsehole...
 
2013-04-05 08:58:51 AM  
Oh, and this:

http://www.quickmeme.com/Always-Online-Adam-Orth/?upcoming

Just skimmed the thread, sorry if it's a repost.
 
2013-04-05 09:00:06 AM  
nocturnal001: I seriously might not buy the new Xbox if its always on.

Yes, you will.  And they know it.

It doesn't matter what kind of abuse game and console developers pile on gamers, they will always come back and buy because they are hopelessly and pathetically addicted.
 
2013-04-05 09:01:40 AM  

Dimensio: drewsclues: Klivian: Kiribub: Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.

Problem is that the PS4 looks like garbage as well. I don't need a constant twitter feed running on the side while I play a game, thanks.

If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.

Welcome friend. It's a good time to jump onboard. For the price of a new console, you can make a pretty good gaming box. Do it.

What are you purchasing? When I last priced video cards, they were more expensive than any current generation game console.


Uh, a radeon 6570 is on par with the 360 gpu if we're being generous to the 360 and its about $55 on newegg
 
2013-04-05 09:09:09 AM  

t3knomanser: way south: I'm saving my jimmies for when Microsoft has actually said something.

Well, Microsoft did say  something. That "something" was a stream of insults and mockery directed at their customers.


Officially, Microsoft ain't said jack.
Some suit that works for them vented on twitter as they tend to do. Maybe to gauge reaction, or maybe he spent the last few hours "not getting it" in a room full of people trying in desperation to explain it to him.
Everyone's going apeshiat about something that should have been decided on months ago, and probably is.

Until they've put something out, I'm doing my best to not care about the pointless speculation.
 
2013-04-05 09:09:47 AM  
So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.
 
2013-04-05 09:11:30 AM  

way south: Some suit that works for them vented on twitter as they tend to do.


He vented on a topic clearly related to his work. Whether officially or not, he was clearly representing Microsoft, and in that capacity, insulted and mocked customers.
 
2013-04-05 09:12:14 AM  
"just deal with it"

Imagine if a ford exec said that when their Explorers were "exploding" in their garages due to faulty ignition switches...

This phrase needs to die a quick death before it gets into other sectors of business.
 
2013-04-05 09:14:23 AM  
"Deal with it" = buy a PS4 or WiiU instead.

Vote with your dollars people.  If you find this outrageous (and you should - requiring an internet connection for a single-player experience is unnecessary, controlling, and arrogant, and bound to cause problems for lots of people), then spend your money elsewhere.
 
2013-04-05 09:16:42 AM  

Alonjar: Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded


archive.heinessen.com

It may not have had the month-long outages PSN has, but it has gone down, sometimes for a week at a time.  Imagine how much worse it will be with every console hitting those servers all the time.
 
2013-04-05 09:17:46 AM  

Doc Daneeka: "Deal with it" = buy a PS4 or WiiU instead.

Vote with your dollars people.  If you find this outrageous (and you should - requiring an internet connection for a single-player experience is unnecessary, controlling, and arrogant, and bound to cause problems for lots of people), then spend your money elsewhere.


I already did.

www.pcper.com
 
2013-04-05 09:18:26 AM  
Looks like this guy is taking a page from the EA playbook of having contempt for your userbase. Hopefully he'll also go the way the last EA CEO did with their shiat release of their "always on" game.
 
2013-04-05 09:18:26 AM  
This war on piracy is getting ludicrous. It's their product and their call to make if they want to make it always online; I just know that when Diablo 3 was announced always-online, I bought Torchlight II. When Starcraft was always-online, I just reinstalled Supreme Commander FA and played that instead. SimCity 5? Bought Tropico 4.

All this will do is weaken sales and kill markets, and it evolves better mods, better hacks, and better pirates who weren't going to buy the product anyway.

And frankly, if I want to play by myself, or in a LAN, I do not want to communicate with a server a thousand km's distant. In many cases, I can't.

/i'm sorry, your car cannot communicate with the dealership server; your car's engine is unavailable at this time
 
2013-04-05 09:19:02 AM  

narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


So some farkers believe that intentionally antagonizing the very people who give you money on a public forum is a smart business move and considered just "anything".
 
2013-04-05 09:19:06 AM  

Doc Daneeka: "Deal with it" = buy a PS4 or WiiU instead.

Vote with your dollars people.  If you find this outrageous (and you should - requiring an internet connection for a single-player experience is unnecessary, controlling, and arrogant, and bound to cause problems for lots of people), then spend your money elsewhere.


This is also much more cut and dry than with games. With software its usually the publisher that imposes something like this on the developer. You have to weigh your desire to support the developer against your desire to punish the publisher. Here it's the hardware manufacturer limiting its own tech to screw you. And almost no games are exclusives anymore. So unless this thing farts rainbows why would you buy it over a PS4 or a PC?

Better not be true for Microsoft's sake
 
2013-04-05 09:19:42 AM  

Hiro Nakamura: So what I'm hearing is fark me if I have to deploy to another shiathole and want to take my games with me.


Nailed it. My first thought. "Awesome, so I deploy again, no more MWR tents with consoles and whatnot, since we aren't going to be able to dedicate a portion of our bandwidth simply for videogames".
 
2013-04-05 09:23:22 AM  

nocturnal001: Alonjar: I can see both sides of the argument.  Players look at it from the perspective of being farked over by Activision/EA shiatting on their customers by cheaping out and not placing appropriate server infrastructure for their always online games, combined with horrible cost cutting based programming and flawed software design.  So we hate it.

Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers.  So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

I agree in general with the "get with the times" statement though... different people have different priorities, but I for example take my internet connection seriously, and it is one of the primary factors I look at when moving and choosing a home.  If its got bullshiat internet, no thanks.  Next.

/Microsoft exec still a douche though

So if they now make me have it, do I get to stop paying them 60 a year for it?

This is all about piracy, period. Modding consoles is such a pita that its not like it is ever going to be widespread.

The major flaw here (same with EA) is that they piss off their paying customers just to keep some others for getting their stuff for free. Guess what guys? You can probably not convert pirates to paying customers. This business model may reduce piracy, but at a cost to total revenue.


Actually I pirate all the time but manily due to lack of funds. A lot of the games that I pirate and love I wind up buying later on.
/Especially when it's the Steam Sale. I make sure to do my best to get money when that happens.
//And the humble bundle, and the Indy Bundle.
///What I'm trying to say is lower your prices game industry. You no longer need physical copies to sell games anymore.
 
2013-04-05 09:24:00 AM  
Voting with my dollars?

Upgraded the PC graphics card.  The xBox collects dust except for when my kids remember we have one.

I'm done with consoles.
 
2013-04-05 09:25:12 AM  
The analogy using a vacuum cleaner and electricity is farking idiotic.  Most vacuum cleaners strictly require electricity by the nature of the device itself, whereas an always-on internet connection is only a "requirement" by virtue of some asshole exec deciding to make it a requirement.
 
2013-04-05 09:26:43 AM  

scarmig: Voting with my dollars?

Upgraded the PC graphics card.  The xBox collects dust except for when my kids remember we have one.

I'm done with consoles.


The Wii is like this for me except I've decided to play rock band again. My PS3 on the other hand gets enough love. I love gamefly.
 
2013-04-05 09:27:24 AM  

RoxtarRyan: Hiro Nakamura: So what I'm hearing is fark me if I have to deploy to another shiathole and want to take my games with me.

Nailed it. My first thought. "Awesome, so I deploy again, no more MWR tents with consoles and whatnot, since we aren't going to be able to dedicate a portion of our bandwidth simply for videogames".


Has anyone told him to think of the troops? I'd like to hear his answer on that.
 
2013-04-05 09:29:07 AM  
I find this hilarious.  Microsoft is really a train wreck the past few years.  The 360's interface gets shiattier with every update, Windows 8 is a turd and their strategy with it and the tablets is arrogant, and now this shiat.  I don't even care if this thing turns out to not be "always on" I'm not touching it with a 10 foot pole.  And I own a 360 and the original xbox.  It'll be funny to sit back and watch the hate flow if they announce the new console and not only is it "always on" but kinect is required and the camera can't be disabled.  Gonna be some funny threads to read if so.

I'll just wait for all the kiddos to sell off their 360 games on ebay and snatch em up for pennies.  My family will have enough games to play for life.
 
2013-04-05 09:29:38 AM  
You know why this shiat works and they keep doing it?

Because millions of idiots keep buying the stuff even after biatching about it.

Diablo 3...Simcity ....all examples of horrible fails of a launch yet people line up and throw money at them.

They know you people just biatch and moan and then throw money at it so you can biatch and moan and try and get something out of them for free.

No one learns.
 
2013-04-05 09:30:19 AM  
Oh and Steambox might be the winner in the nextgen consoles.  I'm very curious to learn all the details.
 
2013-04-05 09:31:35 AM  
If this is the way the 720 will work, will not buy.  Video games aren't THAT big of deal to me at this point.

Would I like to have the next generation of games?  Yes.  But as others have said internet connections can go down, and there are occasions where I like to take the console with me to another location that may not have a connection (let's say, a cabin out in the wilderness for rainy days, or other vacation destination).
 
2013-04-05 09:31:40 AM  

Keywork99: This guy's a damn idiot. Whether you agree with always online or not, having someone at Microsoft telling their customers to "deal with it" is unacceptable. If I told one of our customers that at my place of employment, my ass would be on the street within the hour.

When are people going to learn that if you are employed, you are a representative of the company you are with whether you are clocked in to work or not, and you can't just say stupid crap like this online? Are people that idiotic?

Jesus, dude. Just shut up.


I think he's just preparing everyone for what was already rumored.
 
2013-04-05 09:31:43 AM  
Entitled twat.
 
2013-04-05 09:33:48 AM  
If my customer base was willing to put up with the hardware failure rate of the 360 during its early life and continued to do business with me I'd be pretty confident that nothing I could do would ever turn them against me... Ever. I would even go so far as to get confused when they actually got upset about something.

I've always said that no product could ever have the failure rate of the 360 and remain on the market... I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a high end video card had that kind of failure rate.

Or even better, a hard drive.

Hell even a NIC with that kind of failure rate would turn a million IT people against your company forever.

But a console? Please sir, may I have another?
 
2013-04-05 09:35:44 AM  
You'd think after Sony royally farked the PS3 launch and essentially gave XBOX who knows how many millions as a result Microsoft would have learned not to piss off the fanbase prior to a new system release.
 
2013-04-05 09:37:40 AM  

narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.



It is nice to know that some farkers have a little common sense.
 
2013-04-05 09:38:19 AM  
I want an "always online" refrigerator. That way whenever there is a Comcast service interruption, I can console myself by trying to eat all the ice cream before it melts.
 
2013-04-05 09:38:24 AM  
www.geek.com

Go ahead.  Keep pissing off your base.  Brand loyalty is fleeting.
 
2013-04-05 09:40:13 AM  

stovepipe: Windows 8 is a turd


Tar and feather me if you will, but once I experienced Win 8 on a true tablet I have to honestly say its a farking amazing piece of software. Now when I tried it on a laptop, yeah I was pretty 'meh' but on my new tablet..amazing.

I'll agree with your point about the xbox interface being pretty shiatty. Next update though they are supposedly going to a tiled interface ala Win 8, so with the Kinect it should be ultra easy to navigate. And also add Kinect ability in all facets of the interface since right now certain parts still require a remote or controller.

As much as you might hate on them, MS does learn from their fark ups.
 
2013-04-05 09:40:35 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Has anyone told him to think of the troops? I'd like to hear his answer on that.


Dude, has anyone told him to think of the people with Time Warner cable or AT&T DSL?

Christ, being in IT, I've talked to thousands of people who suffer with upload speeds barely touching .6Mbps. Barely enough to do a VOIP phone call, forget having to constantly update with a video game server.
 
2013-04-05 09:41:23 AM  
Off topic but...

You know what's really amazing to me, how many execs at my own company can't work an excel spreadsheet. Every once in a while I have to pass some data upstairs to the C-suite folks for internal use and I inevitably get the email or phone call asking them how to sort, filter, go from tab to tab, etc. I understand that they're up there making very important and serious decisions and their job doesn't involve the regular use of excel but at some point, doesn't EVERYONE in the business community learn at least the basics of excel?
 
2013-04-05 09:42:28 AM  
He kinda has a point. Yeah it sucks for rural folks without access to broadband, but internet has become a utility. They didnt used to be able to get electricity out in the sticks either, did that stop anyone from selling electric lights? If my power goes out frequently do i biatch that all my stupid devices need to be plugged in to work, or do i biatch about my power company?
 
2013-04-05 09:42:59 AM  

stovepipe: Oh and Steambox might be the winner in the nextgen consoles.  I'm very curious to learn all the details.


I don't have much faith in the Steambox. It seems like all Valve is going to do is split their own PC base. Sure there are still a lot of questions to be answered, but I don't see it working out well.
 
2013-04-05 09:43:46 AM  

Dimensio: What are you purchasing? When I last priced video cards, they were more expensive than any current generation game console.


I'm running a card I bought a year and a half ago for $100. As far as I know, it will run every game out there. Sometimes I don't get to crank all the settings to the max, but I still get better visuals than consoles. Plus, with Steam sales, I have a huge backlog of games I bought incredibly cheaply.

If you're attached to having a controller, for some reason, XBox controllers work great on the PC.
 
2013-04-05 09:46:35 AM  

thatboyoverthere: What I'm trying to say is lower your prices game industry. You no longer need physical copies to sell games anymore.


What does that have to do with anything? The cost of the physical copy, when produced in bulk, is pennies per disc. The retail space isn't exactly a lot, either. Cheaper than books, and the mass-market paperbacks are already so cheap that they're basically considered disposable goods by the industry (which is why unsold books are supposed to be destroyed).

The contribution of the physical product to the cost-of-goods-sold is trivial. It's the development budget which takes up the majority of the per-unit COGS, and even then, when they sell AAA-titles to millions, that cost is amortized so much that it's pretty trivial.

The main reason video game cost $60 a game is because the market will pay $60 for a new game. They ship enough units at that price point that they can generally make a profit on a successful title, and not lose their shirts on an unsuccessful one.
 
2013-04-05 09:48:44 AM  

narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


Well, in this case it's not "anything said... that can be tied back to their place of employment". Adam Orth publicly stated on his profile that he was a creative director at Microsoft, told dissatisfied customers to "deal with it", denigrated people who lived in places like Janesville, WI and Blacksburg, VA. Then he tried to say he was just joking with a friend before making his Twitter private.

Now, I'm not saying it should reflect on his employability directly, but rather be an indicator of his judgement. I'm a low level manager in a large company (although not in the realm of Microsoft). One of the things we are told is that we represent the company. Everyone who gets promoted/hired beyond the low/entry level gets told that. What we say publicly, when we are talking in a business setting, talking about business, or about something related and we are identified as part of the company, can reflect on the company. If this was a joke as he claimed, then he showed horrible judgement by doing it in a very public forum. If it wasn't a joke, then he showed horrible judgement by talking about it prior to release by the company.
 
2013-04-05 09:48:58 AM  

rtaylor92: Off topic but...

You know what's really amazing to me, how many execs at my own company can't work an excel spreadsheet. Every once in a while I have to pass some data upstairs to the C-suite folks for internal use and I inevitably get the email or phone call asking them how to sort, filter, go from tab to tab, etc. I understand that they're up there making very important and serious decisions and their job doesn't involve the regular use of excel but at some point, doesn't EVERYONE in the business community learn at least the basics of excel?


My dad writes out spreadsheets by hand. On graph paper. It's absurd, but he refuses to learn Excel. Old people and technology just do not mix.
 
2013-04-05 09:49:10 AM  

Cyno01: He kinda has a point. Yeah it sucks for rural folks without access to broadband, but internet has become a utility. They didnt used to be able to get electricity out in the sticks either, did that stop anyone from selling electric lights? If my power goes out frequently do i biatch that all my stupid devices need to be plugged in to work, or do i biatch about my power company?


Except they are intentionally designing in this requirement, that is otherwise not an intrinsic part of the product.  Your analogy doesn't work because light bulbs fill no purpose without electricity.  A gaming system without internet still works as a gaming system.  Well, apparently except for the next Xbox.
 
2013-04-05 09:51:39 AM  
I have long wondered where Jeff went.
 
2013-04-05 09:51:56 AM  

t3knomanser: way south: Some suit that works for them vented on twitter as they tend to do.

He vented on a topic clearly related to his work. Whether officially or not, he was clearly representing Microsoft, and in that capacity, insulted and mocked customers.




At present this is still a personal tiff between him and people on the Internet who have yet to be violated. Nothing as been released, nothing has been demonstrated. I can't even play devils advocate because he hasn't shown this brave new world of his.

We are getting bent out of shape over nothing.
 
2013-04-05 09:52:15 AM  

Cyno01: but internet has become a utility


But these always on consoles don't simply require you to access a utility. They also require you to use that utility to access a specific collection of servers. A physical product which I have purchased, which has a slew of use-cases that have nothing to do with the Internet or with Microsoft (or EA's, or whoever's) servers, is now dependent, not only upon a utility, but upon an endpoint over which I have no control.

If I want to play a single-player game, what logic is there to connect to remote servers for it to work? What do I do when those servers cease to function?
 
2013-04-05 09:52:26 AM  

t3knomanser: What does that have to do with anything? The cost of the physical copy, when produced in bulk, is pennies per disc. The retail space isn't exactly a lot, either. Cheaper than books, and the mass-market paperbacks are already so cheap that they're basically considered disposable goods by the industry (which is why unsold books are supposed to be destroyed).


The retailer's gotta get a cut. They're not a charity. The cost of each unit may be vanishingly small, but the cut of profits that the retailer takes is not.

Lack of physical products or need to kickback money to console manufacturers is what allows downloadable PC games to be so, so much cheaper than console games.
 
2013-04-05 09:52:45 AM  
This is just rich people refusing to understand that their customers might be poor/ that poor people often don't have things as nice as themselves.
 
2013-04-05 09:53:14 AM  

Erix: Cyno01: He kinda has a point. Yeah it sucks for rural folks without access to broadband, but internet has become a utility. They didnt used to be able to get electricity out in the sticks either, did that stop anyone from selling electric lights? If my power goes out frequently do i biatch that all my stupid devices need to be plugged in to work, or do i biatch about my power company?

Except they are intentionally designing in this requirement, that is otherwise not an intrinsic part of the product.  Your analogy doesn't work because light bulbs fill no purpose without electricity.  A gaming system without internet still works as a gaming system.  Well, apparently except for the next Xbox.


That's why his vacuum cleaner analogy fails. If my electricity goes out, my xbox won't work either, so I shouldn't buy an xbox? The vacuum cleaner REQUIRES energy to run. If Hoover built a vacuum that requires an always-online connection, no way in hell will I buy that vacuum.
 
2013-04-05 09:53:16 AM  

Cyno01: but internet has become a utility.


It really hasn't.  Oddly enough, IIRC, George W Bush tried to make it so, tried to get a bill passed that made broadband internet like the telephone landline (everyone will have access to it), but it got shot down. Likely, the only way it will become a utility is if more control is handed to the government for it, or at the very least it will become more regulated.
 
2013-04-05 09:55:35 AM  

Flappyhead: You'd think after Sony royally farked the PS3 launch and essentially gave XBOX who knows how many millions as a result Microsoft would have learned not to piss off the fanbase prior to a new system release.


Third console syndrome is in effect.  The xbox did well, and the 360 did excellent in some areas, so MS is seemingly adopting the same thing that sony did for the ps3 and Nintendo for the N64:  make the device they want, gamers be damned.  After all, they think they have a captive audience.
 
2013-04-05 10:00:24 AM  

thurstonxhowell: The cost of each unit may be vanishingly small, but the cut of profits that the retailer takes is not.


Their per-unit profit is not that large- retail margins are razor thin. And these companies still make up the backbone of the distribution chain, and they will  not be happy about being undercut by online sales.

Besides, the key point I'm getting at is the COGS has nothing to do with the price. It could cost $0.02/copy, but if enough people are happy to pay $60, guess how much the company selling it is going to charge?
 
2013-04-05 10:01:24 AM  

t3knomanser: thatboyoverthere: What I'm trying to say is lower your prices game industry. You no longer need physical copies to sell games anymore.

What does that have to do with anything? The cost of the physical copy, when produced in bulk, is pennies per disc. The retail space isn't exactly a lot, either. Cheaper than books, and the mass-market paperbacks are already so cheap that they're basically considered disposable goods by the industry (which is why unsold books are supposed to be destroyed).

The contribution of the physical product to the cost-of-goods-sold is trivial. It's the development budget which takes up the majority of the per-unit COGS, and even then, when they sell AAA-titles to millions, that cost is amortized so much that it's pretty trivial.

The main reason video game cost $60 a game is because the market will pay $60 for a new game. They ship enough units at that price point that they can generally make a profit on a successful title, and not lose their shirts on an unsuccessful one.


A digital copy should cost less than a physical copy because it offers an inferior value proposition to the consumer.  A physical copy can be loaned to a friend.  A physical copy can be resold, allowing the purchaser to recoup some of the cost.

That's why I opt for the cartridge version of games for my 3DS.  I'll always be able to re-sell them down the line if I wish.
 
2013-04-05 10:02:36 AM  

way south: At present this is still a personal tiff between him and people on the Internet who have yet to be violated.


That's the exact point I'm making. This is a personal tiff between an industry professional in a highly visible role and the customers he hopes to sell things to. Even though he was not officially speaking for Microsoft, we can assume that,  as an executive responsible for the XBox, his beliefs represent the beliefs of an executive responsible for the XBox.
 
2013-04-05 10:02:57 AM  

StrangeQ: nocturnal001: I seriously might not buy the new Xbox if its always on.

Yes, you will.  And they know it.

It doesn't matter what kind of abuse game and console developers pile on gamers, they will always come back and buy because they are hopelessly and pathetically addicted.


I still haven't purchased the new Sim City. I would have if the online aspect was optional.
 
2013-04-05 10:02:58 AM  

Kiribub: Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.


Exactly. Does anyone remember the software QuarkXPress?  I didn't think so.
 
2013-04-05 10:03:53 AM  

Antimatter: Flappyhead: You'd think after Sony royally farked the PS3 launch and essentially gave XBOX who knows how many millions as a result Microsoft would have learned not to piss off the fanbase prior to a new system release.

Third console syndrome is in effect.  The xbox did well, and the 360 did excellent in some areas, so MS is seemingly adopting the same thing that sony did for the ps3 and Nintendo for the N64:  make the device they want, gamers be damned.  After all, they think they have a captive audience.


I was always an Xbox player because the PS3 line up didn't appeal to me.  What happened with the PS3 launch?

/Too lazy to google
 
2013-04-05 10:04:35 AM  
Those soldiers in Kandahar should really get with the times and get internet.

I mean, the Taliban provides Internet doesn't it?

And those people on submarines have internet too.

Internet is now a fundamental human right in the military. like water. So you can enjoy it anywhere

/if there is any argument for not making a console online it is the fact you are farking over members of the military by doing so.
//They deserve all the fun time they want.
 
2013-04-05 10:08:07 AM  

Doc Daneeka: A digital copy should cost less than a physical copy because it offers an inferior value proposition to the consumer.


I've bought a few online games that didn't come with an instruction booklet, so when the first thing that happens in the game is a big explosion and you have to run away while doing sidekicks and cooking scrambled eggs, I had no idea what buttons to push. Had to pause the game and look up controller specs online (damn game had no controller map in the pause menu).

Maybe I'm old school, but I like the little inserts with video games, especially if they have a little backstory in them, explains a bit about the main character, or gives you examples of controller combos. Plus, it gives me something to read while I'm installing it. Hate when newer games, especially physical ones, don't put anything with the disc aside from more advertisements for other products. They remind me of those massive coupon inserts that came with the newspaper (remember those?). I'll give you one guess at what publisher is the biggest offender of that.   ;)
 
2013-04-05 10:08:52 AM  

Doc Daneeka: t3knomanser: thatboyoverthere: What I'm trying to say is lower your prices game industry. You no longer need physical copies to sell games anymore.

What does that have to do with anything? The cost of the physical copy, when produced in bulk, is pennies per disc. The retail space isn't exactly a lot, either. Cheaper than books, and the mass-market paperbacks are already so cheap that they're basically considered disposable goods by the industry (which is why unsold books are supposed to be destroyed).

The contribution of the physical product to the cost-of-goods-sold is trivial. It's the development budget which takes up the majority of the per-unit COGS, and even then, when they sell AAA-titles to millions, that cost is amortized so much that it's pretty trivial.

The main reason video game cost $60 a game is because the market will pay $60 for a new game. They ship enough units at that price point that they can generally make a profit on a successful title, and not lose their shirts on an unsuccessful one.

A digital copy should cost less than a physical copy because it offers an inferior value proposition to the consumer.  A physical copy can be loaned to a friend.  A physical copy can be resold, allowing the purchaser to recoup some of the cost.

That's why I opt for the cartridge version of games for my 3DS.  I'll always be able to re-sell them down the line if I wish.


You do realize that along with an always-on requirement, discs being playable only on the first console used is also rumored for the 720. Thus eliminating your argument.
 
2013-04-05 10:10:14 AM  

scottydoesntknow: RoxtarRyan: Hiro Nakamura: So what I'm hearing is fark me if I have to deploy to another shiathole and want to take my games with me.

Nailed it. My first thought. "Awesome, so I deploy again, no more MWR tents with consoles and whatnot, since we aren't going to be able to dedicate a portion of our bandwidth simply for videogames".

Has anyone told him to think of the troops? I'd like to hear his answer on that.


I know you're just snarkin' but it's just one example of a portion of the market that will be excluded. My family lives in southern Illinois and can only get 1M download speeds still- on a good day. I live in the middle of a decent sized city with Charter and a fiber optic alternative so it's not an issue for me until I want to take me system outside of my home. Literally anywhere else I travel to on a regular basis won't afford me he same opportunity that I have at my house.
 
2013-04-05 10:10:56 AM  
www.oandp.com
 
2013-04-05 10:11:27 AM  
Gentlemen(I would say ladies too but it IS a gaming thread),

The choice is clear.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-05 10:11:30 AM  
Maybe if the US's internet infrastructure and speed weren't actually made up of a giant bowl of dicks trying to operate a treadmill, we could revisit this discussion with more depth on both sides of the debate.  Until then, the situation is fairly shiat.
 
2013-04-05 10:13:47 AM  

Strategeryz0r: Gentlemen(I would say ladies too but it IS a gaming thread),

The choice is clear.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x478]


LOL!!! Did you read the review on the Verge?
 
2013-04-05 10:14:06 AM  

Hiro Nakamura: scottydoesntknow: RoxtarRyan: Hiro Nakamura: So what I'm hearing is fark me if I have to deploy to another shiathole and want to take my games with me.

Nailed it. My first thought. "Awesome, so I deploy again, no more MWR tents with consoles and whatnot, since we aren't going to be able to dedicate a portion of our bandwidth simply for videogames".

Has anyone told him to think of the troops? I'd like to hear his answer on that.

I know you're just snarkin' but it's just one example of a portion of the market that will be excluded. My family lives in southern Illinois and can only get 1M download speeds still- on a good day. I live in the middle of a decent sized city with Charter and a fiber optic alternative so it's not an issue for me until I want to take me system outside of my home. Literally anywhere else I travel to on a regular basis won't afford me he same opportunity that I have at my house.


Honestly no snark. One of the few things that still pulls at big corporations is the "Think of the troops!" angle. Not trying to cheapen what they do, but they do have quite a bit of say. You piss of the military folks and you'll get a lot of hate.
 
2013-04-05 10:14:27 AM  

Cyno01: He kinda has a point. Yeah it sucks for rural folks without access to broadband, but internet has become a utility. They didnt used to be able to get electricity out in the sticks either, did that stop anyone from selling electric lights? If my power goes out frequently do i biatch that all my stupid devices need to be plugged in to work, or do i biatch about my power company?


Internet, however, does not work the same was as electricity. Internet uses a "best effort" to get things here from there, not any kind of failsafe. As a result, the internet doesn't only go out during blizzards, as power does, but will commonly go out for a few milliseconds, even regular seconds, because of network congestion, switching problems upstream, router issues, etc. depending on your provider. Usually, this is too small to notice or an inconvenience for a human user, but if a console is requiring a steady heartbeat, this is impossible for a semi-large percentage of the userbase.

SimCity only required a connection once every twenty minutes, apparently. Many of the always-on games turned that knob ridiculously high to the point where active games, connected to the internet and doing everything right mind you, would time out and take you back to the start menu without saving, simply because the connection packets were lost en route. This isn't the result of someone "not having" internet; it's the fundamental principle the internet is based on: best effort and fairshare of network traffic. This is going to happen at frequency, there is nothing you can do about it, and anyone requiring a consistent internet connection at this level is not going to have their games playable because of it.
 
2013-04-05 10:16:07 AM  
I'm going to be running a video game tournament at a bar I work at, and have to be very careful to pick out games that offer local, same-system multiplayer. What ever happened to being able to do offline LAN multiplayer without having to go through a server hundreds or thousands of miles away?
 
2013-04-05 10:16:30 AM  

thurstonxhowell: t3knomanser: What does that have to do with anything? The cost of the physical copy, when produced in bulk, is pennies per disc. The retail space isn't exactly a lot, either. Cheaper than books, and the mass-market paperbacks are already so cheap that they're basically considered disposable goods by the industry (which is why unsold books are supposed to be destroyed).

The retailer's gotta get a cut. They're not a charity. The cost of each unit may be vanishingly small, but the cut of profits that the retailer takes is not.

Lack of physical products or need to kickback money to console manufacturers is what allows downloadable PC games to be so, so much cheaper than console games.


Well, when you factor in sales at least.  At release, most pc games are just as expensive as console games these days, despite the lower costs.  Console games fall fairly quickly at retail these days though, seeing as you can pick up one for $20 off within a month or two, and usually in the bargain bin in six months.

Most PC games sales come at release, the tail seems to be much shorter in terms of profits.  Hence why you see them giving them away for 75% off during a few days of a steam sale a few times a year.  Granted after the sale ends they rise back to around the same costs as their console retail brethren.
 
2013-04-05 10:18:07 AM  

RoxtarRyan: I'm going to be running a video game tournament at a bar I work at, and have to be very careful to pick out games that offer local, same-system multiplayer. What ever happened to being able to do offline LAN multiplayer without having to go through a server hundreds or thousands of miles away?


Publishers have no control over that. Lost source of revenue. Unacceptable.

Quake 3 let you change the last character of your serial number and get a new key. Was fantastic for LAN parties.
 
2013-04-05 10:18:19 AM  
Tweeted this just now.

@ adam_orth Hmm, I must have missed that day in B school when we were taught to tell customers to #dealwithit if they didn't like a feature.


I'd say it was the attitude more than anythign else that is attracting ire.  It's not like he said "whats the big deal guys?" but more like "too bad jerks".

thatboyoverthere: nocturnal001: Alonjar: I can see both sides of the argument.  Players look at it from the perspective of being farked over by Activision/EA shiatting on their customers by cheaping out and not placing appropriate server infrastructure for their always online games, combined with horrible cost cutting based programming and flawed software design.  So we hate it.

Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers.  So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

I agree in general with the "get with the times" statement though... different people have different priorities, but I for example take my internet connection seriously, and it is one of the primary factors I look at when moving and choosing a home.  If its got bullshiat internet, no thanks.  Next.

/Microsoft exec still a douche though

So if they now make me have it, do I get to stop paying them 60 a year for it?

This is all about piracy, period. Modding consoles is such a pita that its not like it is ever going to be widespread.

The major flaw here (same with EA) is that they piss off their paying customers just to keep some others for getting their stuff for free. Guess what guys? You can probably not convert pirates to paying customers. This business model may reduce piracy, but at a cost to total revenue.

Actually I pirate all the time but manily due to lack of funds. A lot of the games that I pirate and love I wind up buying later on.
/Especially when it's the Steam Sale. I make sure to do my best to get money when that happens.
//And the humble bundle, and the Indy Bundle.
///What I'm trying to say is lower your prices game industry. You no longer need physical copies to sell games anymore.


If you were stopped from Pirating tomorrow somehow, would you instead buy all of those pirated gamed?
 
2013-04-05 10:18:28 AM  
Oh and slightly off topic but after a hard day of work in the desert there's nothing more glorious than having six blocks of RLBs, all with 50-100 xboxes, wired to the same LAN. There's always a guarantee of at least a few people on and playing the same game.

/Although troubleshooting a rat's nest of cat-5 that covers a couple hundred rooms can be a huge ass pain
//not to mention TCNs that will come by and snag a 50 foot cross-building cable every now and then
///slashies come in threes
 
2013-04-05 10:19:33 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Dimensio: What are you purchasing? When I last priced video cards, they were more expensive than any current generation game console.

I'm running a card I bought a year and a half ago for $100. As far as I know, it will run every game out there. Sometimes I don't get to crank all the settings to the max, but I still get better visuals than consoles. Plus, with Steam sales, I have a huge backlog of games I bought incredibly cheaply.

If you're attached to having a controller, for some reason, XBox controllers work great on the PC.


I actually prefer using a mouse for first-person shooters, which is why I purchased an XBox 360 mouse.
 
2013-04-05 10:21:19 AM  
I was looking forward to the 720 because I skipped the 360. Now? Well now I'm just glad I put together a sweet PC rig in January. Because the way things look I won't be picking up any next Gen console.
 
2013-04-05 10:21:46 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Honestly no snark. One of the few things that still pulls at big corporations is the "Think of the troops!" angle. Not trying to cheapen what they do, but they do have quite a bit of say. You piss of the military folks and you'll get a lot of hate.


I ended up mastering Soul Calibur 2 on one deployment on the PS2. Wrote the publisher of the game a couple years after when I got home (don't know why, just wanted to say thanks for the fun game), and they sent me a copy of the 3rd one, thanking me for my service. I like it when companies treat their users right, and while going that far isn't really required or expected, it definitely made my day. I didn't even open the game, actually. Just mailed it back out to the guys overseas, and hoped it gave other guys some good down time.
 
2013-04-05 10:22:02 AM  

uttertosh: "Sometimes the electricity goes out. I will not buy a vacuum cleaner."

orly?!?


I read that and did a double take.  I can't believe he tweeted that.  I'm waiting for the "Oh, my account was hacked!" excuse to roll out in the upcoming days.
 
2013-04-05 10:22:42 AM  

KhamanV: Maybe if the US's internet infrastructure and speed weren't actually made up of a giant bowl of dicks trying to operate a treadmill, we could revisit this discussion with more depth on both sides of the debate.  Until then, the situation is fairly shiat.


Whoa.  Hold up.  Telco Engineer here.  Please do not mistake the national fiberoptic infrastructure with your local residential provider.

The fiber between cities and coasts is excellent.  It's your local ISP who refuses to invest in their network and maintenance that is the problem.  Have you ever been inside your local central office?

lh3.ggpht.com

This is not uncommon.
 
2013-04-05 10:22:50 AM  
I've said it before and I'll say it again. While it might seem petty, I alone dictate how my internet is used. I pay for my internet and there's a cap on my usage. How does a publisher, console maker or game studio figure they get to decide how the limited service that I pay for is used. It doesn't matter if they're pushing 1k an hour. They don't have the right to use up my bandwidth. I will not be purchasing a console or any game that requires a constant connection, with the obvious exception of online games (MMO's, multiplayers, etc.)
 
2013-04-05 10:23:59 AM  
What a douche. I'd love to know where this turd lives if he never experiences outages.

/looking forward to a Microsoft-free world.
 
2013-04-05 10:25:07 AM  

italie: narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


It is nice to know that some farkers have a little common sense.



Huh? Where do you guys work? No, common sense is "do not piss off potential customers in a public forum by saying something stupid".  I'm not nearly as high in my org chart as this guy is, and I know better than to get on twitter and tell my customers to "deal with it". Should this be a firable offense? Probably not, but if I were his boss I've give him a damned hard talking to.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7683848/83436054#c83436054" target="_blank" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7683848/83436054#c8 3436054">randomjsa: If my customer base was willing to put up with the hardware failure rate of the 360 during its early life and continued to do business with me I'd be pretty confident that nothing I could do would ever turn them against me... Ever. I would even go so far as to get confused when they actually got upset about something.

I've always said that no product could ever have the failure rate of the 360 and remain on the market... I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a high end video card had that kind of failure rate.

Or even better, a hard drive.

Hell even a NIC with that kind of failure rate would turn a million IT people against your company forever.

But a console? Please sir, may I have another?


Apples and oranges my friend. How many companies build graphics cards? How many build consoles?

The 360 failure rate was horrible, and MS did pay the price in terms of a crap ton of warranty fixes and defective returns. I went through either 3 or 4 machines within the first year but the one I had after that is still running.

People still buy Toyotas and they actually killed people due to their failure rate.
 
2013-04-05 10:25:23 AM  
One third of the country doesn't have broadband internet. So you're gonna shut those people out, but if they don't have broadband they're probably troglodytes anyway, amirite?

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/08/119-million-americans-lack-b ro adband-internet-fcc-reports/
 
2013-04-05 10:27:25 AM  

enik: What a douche. I'd love to know where this turd lives if he never experiences outages.


I'd like to know where he lives so he can experience cut cables and EM signal Jamming.
 
2013-04-05 10:29:24 AM  

s1ugg0: Antimatter: Flappyhead: You'd think after Sony royally farked the PS3 launch and essentially gave XBOX who knows how many millions as a result Microsoft would have learned not to piss off the fanbase prior to a new system release.

Third console syndrome is in effect.  The xbox did well, and the 360 did excellent in some areas, so MS is seemingly adopting the same thing that sony did for the ps3 and Nintendo for the N64:  make the device they want, gamers be damned.  After all, they think they have a captive audience.

I was always an Xbox player because the PS3 line up didn't appeal to me.  What happened with the PS3 launch?

/Too lazy to google


Well, a bit of history I guess is in order.

You see, the ps1 had been a wild success, because of a combo of excellent marketing, low cost games, some killer exclusives, and ease of development.  Sony was able to popularize games for the teenagers and above crowd, who traditionally had shunned games as something for younger kids.

The success went to their heads, and the ps2 was something of a step back.  the games were a tad priceier, but still below snes and n64 games.  the console was difficult to dev for as well, turning away some developers (most notably team ninja and oddworld).  But the marketing and exclusives remained, and the console was an even bigger hit then before.  It also popularized DVD sales in many areas by putting some 150 million players in the hands of folks who had no issues spending money on entertainment.

So Ken K, the man who designed both consoles, was given free reign.  He spent hundreds of millions on the CELL processor and had grand designs for it's use in industry and entertainment.  They let him stick the brand new, and very pricy blu-ray drive in the ps3, hoping to popularize the format like they did for DVD.  He went with split pools of XDR and DDR ram, at great expense as well.  the console was even more difficult to program then before.

The result was a $499/599 console, still sold at a huge loss, who lost even more exclusives, had poor marketing, and basically drained the company coffers that had been filled by ps1 and ps2 sales.  CELL, for all their pipedreams, couldn't' do what they wanted it to, and found itself replaced by low power ARM processors in their desired applications.  Sales plummeted, and they had to scramble to redesign the innards multiple times to reduce costs.  Ken K would lose his position as a result, and never designed another playstation product.

About the only win was in blu-ray, which thanks in part to it, was able to overcome HD-DVD and become the new standard for media.

The ps4 is largely an aftershock of the ps3's massive failure in terms of profits.  It's based on PC style X86-64, an AMD apu, unified gddr5 ram, with some sony specific tweaks in some areas.  It was designed form the ground up by a legendary game designer with lots of input from other developers.  It's been near universally praised from them as a result.
 
2013-04-05 10:32:00 AM  

StrangeQ: nocturnal001: I seriously might not buy the new Xbox if its always on.

Yes, you will.  And they know it.

It doesn't matter what kind of abuse game and console developers pile on gamers, they will always come back and buy because they are hopelessly and pathetically addicted.


Blah, nonsense.  If that were true the other several dozen or so game consoles that were created would still be here. Philips CDI, Sega, etc. Sure they will still sell a lot of machines, but are they really so hard up for always on that they would risk selling 10% fewer?  This is particularly relevant as the gaming base is maturing in age rapidly (all those children of the 80s have money to burn now) and cheap tech combined with could services are bringing in more gaming options.

There are case studies by the thousands disecting the failures of products whose developers told themselves "meh, they will buy this item no matter what".
 
2013-04-05 10:32:49 AM  
My current XBox360 is NOT connected to the internet - because it's on the other side of the house from my internet line and I sure as hell am not running that cable myself.  I purchased Microsoft's "wireless" connector for a $50 ripoff and it promptly refused to recognize my home wifi and insisted that it needed to be connected to the internet to install updates.  Catch-22 anyone?

So if this genius can't figure out why always on is bad, then he deserves to get fired or at least be honest about WHY he wants "always on" and that he doesn't give two shiats about the customer.
 
2013-04-05 10:34:35 AM  
I have an issue with the Internet and my Xbox right now. I have the house wired. I use a Media Room pvR which has player software on the Xbox.

When playing stuff from the PvR it stops and starts, like the bandwidth is confined. Thing is, if I plug it into the wall (Ethernet), it works fine. Introduce any other device in between (brand new GB switch, or router used as switch) and it starts doing this infuriating shiat. I tested different cables and unless 3 of 4 cables are bad, that's not it. Both switches can't be bad.

They really expect me to buy this when my Xbox connection drops every 5 minutes?
 
2013-04-05 10:35:52 AM  

China White Tea: The analogy using a vacuum cleaner and electricity is farking idiotic.  Most vacuum cleaners strictly require electricity by the nature of the device itself, whereas an always-on internet connection is only a "requirement" by virtue of some asshole exec deciding to make it a requirement.


This ^
Plus, I game practically every day. I only need to vacuum once in March after I take down the Christmas tree and occasionally at other times when the dog explodes.
 
2013-04-05 10:36:45 AM  
What's more common?  Losing electricity or internet connection?  I'm willing to bet internet connection.
 
2013-04-05 10:37:56 AM  

cefm: My current XBox360 is NOT connected to the internet - because it's on the other side of the house from my internet line and I sure as hell am not running that cable myself.  I purchased Microsoft's "wireless" connector for a $50 ripoff and it promptly refused to recognize my home wifi and insisted that it needed to be connected to the internet to install updates.  Catch-22 anyone?

So if this genius can't figure out why always on is bad, then he deserves to get fired or at least be honest about WHY he wants "always on" and that he doesn't give two shiats about the customer.


Hmm, mine always worked great.  You could also buy a cheap wireless bridge, somewhat less expensive and can accept multiple devices.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7683848/83437283#c83437283" target="_blank" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7683848/83437283#c8 3437283">MadSkillz: I have an issue with the Internet and my Xbox right now. I have the house wired. I use a Media Room pvR which has player software on the Xbox.

When playing stuff from the PvR it stops and starts, like the bandwidth is confined. Thing is, if I plug it into the wall (Ethernet), it works fine. Introduce any other device in between (brand new GB switch, or router used as switch) and it starts doing this infuriating shiat. I tested different cables and unless 3 of 4 cables are bad, that's not it. Both switches can't be bad.

They really expect me to buy this when my Xbox connection drops every 5 minutes?


 I had to give my 360 a dedicated IP as it fipped out whenever I had a wireless conflict.
 
2013-04-05 10:42:29 AM  
If this is a requirement I will not buy.
I currently own all of the current gen consoles, and a high end gaming pc.

If they do this they clearly do not want my money.

If they do not do this or block used games then I will buy one the day it comes out.
 
2013-04-05 10:44:18 AM  

Fubini: One third of the country doesn't have broadband internet. So you're gonna shut those people out, but if they don't have broadband they're probably troglodytes anyway, amirite?

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/08/119-million-americans-lack-b ro adband-internet-fcc-reports/


even if you have broadband there's no guarantee of consistent service from your local ISP or from the servers on the other end, there's also no guarantee that the developers will have built a system strong enough to handle traffic, there's no guarantee that the publishers will put enough money in to handle the overhead, there's no guarantee that said publishers won't pull the plug anyways, and there's no guarantee that other variables won't factor into your connection going down

i mean PC gamers have already been through this - i've been through this - and it's not in any way shape or form a better experience than offline accessible games

and while i have good broadband access, it's not uncommon for the connection to shiat itself on its own - either going down or just slowing down

there's just no reason at all
 
2013-04-05 10:46:47 AM  

RoxtarRyan: Looks like this guy is taking a page from the EA playbook of having contempt for your userbase. Hopefully he'll also go the way the last EA CEO did with their shiat release of their "always on" game.


Did Orth work under Peter Moore?  Because I wouldn't be surprised if they share that philosophy.  Moore probably took some of those ideas to EA Sports.
 
2013-04-05 10:48:55 AM  

s1ugg0: KhamanV: Maybe if the US's internet infrastructure and speed weren't actually made up of a giant bowl of dicks trying to operate a treadmill, we could revisit this discussion with more depth on both sides of the debate.  Until then, the situation is fairly shiat.

Whoa.  Hold up.  Telco Engineer here.  Please do not mistake the national fiberoptic infrastructure with your local residential provider.

The fiber between cities and coasts is excellent.  It's your local ISP who refuses to invest in their network and maintenance that is the problem.  Have you ever been inside your local central office?

[lh3.ggpht.com image 640x480]

This is not uncommon.


Going for a soundbite in a Fark thread, but yes, the situation is considerably more complicated.  I know the actual 'backbones' are generally terrific, but there's a lack of consistent quality especially as compared to other infrastructures elsewhere.
 
kab
2013-04-05 10:51:10 AM  
While he's an asshole for *how* he said that, one thing is certain.   If the next gen consoles are always on-line, gamers most certainly will yell and write strongly worded emails / posts, but buy it anyhow.

Gamers will put up with all sorts of shiat as long as they can play.
 
2013-04-05 10:52:15 AM  

Antimatter: The ps4 is largely an aftershock of the ps3's massive failure in terms of profits.  It's based on PC style X86-64, an AMD apu, unified gddr5 ram, with some sony specific tweaks in some areas.  It was designed form the ground up by a legendary game designer with lots of input from other developers.  It's been near universally praised from them as a result.


Good to know, because my PS3 is just an overpriced Blu-Ray player, I don't play any games on it. It sounds like the PS4 though is going to be the X-Box killer and the X-Box 720 (What a stupid name) is going to suck donkey balls.
 
2013-04-05 10:52:20 AM  

nocturnal001: and I know better than to get on twitter and tell my customers to "deal with it".


He didn't say that to a customer, he said that to a developer who he knows and is friends with who works at Bioware.  It got turned into a bigger deal because people were freaking out about the rumors spread by Kotaku earlier in the day that the next Xbox would be always connected, despite no announcement or confirmation of such by Microsoft.

Still as a creative director at the company, and the history of dumb shiat blowing up in people's facing on twitter, he should be more careful about how he responds to even friends publicly.
 
2013-04-05 10:52:28 AM  
Google rolled out their fiber service in parts of KC here.  Just not where I live.  For now I'm stuck with Timewarner which is just about the worst TV and Internet I've had. (lived in a dozen cities and 4 states so far)
 
2013-04-05 10:56:07 AM  

kab: While he's an asshole for *how* he said that, one thing is certain.   If the next gen consoles are always on-line, gamers most certainly will yell and write strongly worded emails / posts, but buy it anyhow.

Gamers will put up with all sorts of shiat as long as they can play.


Sadly true.

/the new gamestation requires colorectal DRM
//but at least it screens for polyps and prostate cancer while it's farking you in the ass.
 
2013-04-05 10:57:33 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: He didn't say that to a customer, he said that to a developer who he knows and is friends with who works at Bioware. It got turned into a bigger deal because people were freaking out about the rumors spread by Kotaku earlier in the day that the next Xbox would be always connected, despite no announcement or confirmation of such by Microsoft.


He DID respond to customers.

He told them he wouldn't buy a vaccum because sometimes his power goes out.

And he told people to move where the internet is if they want to play Xbox.  (Sam Kinnison was the only one who ever pulled that joke off)
 
2013-04-05 10:59:51 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Dimensio: What are you purchasing? When I last priced video cards, they were more expensive than any current generation game console.

I'm running a card I bought a year and a half ago for $100. As far as I know, it will run every game out there. Sometimes I don't get to crank all the settings to the max, but I still get better visuals than consoles. Plus, with Steam sales, I have a huge backlog of games I bought incredibly cheaply.

If you're attached to having a controller, for some reason, XBox controllers work great on the PC.


All of this.

/except my card only cost $60
//Black Friday sales are awesome
 
2013-04-05 11:00:27 AM  
Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.
 
2013-04-05 11:01:31 AM  
So your choices are:

1.  Buy a console that is really just a 2-3 year old PC that cannot be upgraded, for $500-$600.  Also, buy a subscription so you can play online.
2.  Spend an extra $100-$200 up front (You will get this money back by not paying sub fees and lower costs of games) and build a PC that will run cross-platform games faster and at higher graphical settings.  No subscription fees.  Games that frequently go on sale for 25%-75% off, and often cost $10-$20 less than their inferior counterparts at launch.  Also, you can upgrade whenever YOU want, so you won't be stuck with the same ancient hardware 7 years down the line.  In another 3-5 years, when the cost of the consoles has cut in half, and all the worthwhile exclusives are discounted in Greatest Hits editions, buy the console and enjoy the handful of great titles that aren't on PC.

I'll be sticking with the PC, as I always have and always will.  I own a Wii and PS3 as well, but they aren't even close to my PC in terms of gaming potential.
 
2013-04-05 11:02:18 AM  

fluffy2097: Lumbar Puncture: He didn't say that to a customer, he said that to a developer who he knows and is friends with who works at Bioware. It got turned into a bigger deal because people were freaking out about the rumors spread by Kotaku earlier in the day that the next Xbox would be always connected, despite no announcement or confirmation of such by Microsoft.

He DID respond to customers.

He told them he wouldn't buy a vaccum because sometimes his power goes out.

And he told people to move where the internet is if they want to play Xbox.  (Sam Kinnison was the only one who ever pulled that joke off)


That right there is a stupid enough statement to deserve heat. Sorry, we all don't live in San Fran or Redmond.  KC is actually a fairly large tech hub in the scheme of things, many of the neighborhoods around me start at 1million plus, and my internet blows.
 
2013-04-05 11:05:25 AM  

R66YRobo: Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.


This man knows how business is done.
 
2013-04-05 11:12:44 AM  

fluffy2097: Lumbar Puncture: He didn't say that to a customer, he said that to a developer who he knows and is friends with who works at Bioware. It got turned into a bigger deal because people were freaking out about the rumors spread by Kotaku earlier in the day that the next Xbox would be always connected, despite no announcement or confirmation of such by Microsoft.

He DID respond to customers.

He told them he wouldn't buy a vaccum because sometimes his power goes out.

And he told people to move where the internet is if they want to play Xbox.  (Sam Kinnison was the only one who ever pulled that joke off)


From what I read it just seemed like he was saying that he doesn't mind always on devices, and then said a bunch of smart assed comments, but not directed specifically at customers.  I make smart assed comments and bad jokes on my twitter often, but like I said he should be more aware of his social media presence given his position, even if he isn't the public face of the company.

I saw him say something about how he wouldn't live out of the city, but nothing telling others to move, but I might've missed it.  His twitter is locked now.

I think the whole thing is pretty ridiculous.
 
rpm
2013-04-05 11:13:01 AM  

randomjsa: I've always said that no product could ever have the failure rate of the 360 and remain on the market... I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a high end video card had that kind of failure rate.

Or even better, a hard drive.


Nothing? Western Digital Green had huge failure rates because of a design flaw.
 
2013-04-05 11:13:18 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: Still as a creative director at the company, and the history of dumb shiat blowing up in people's facing on twitter, he should be more careful about how he responds to even friends publicly.


This... he should know better then to post a comment like that to twitter.  That said until the console is announced it's idle speculation... even if they are considering things like an always on connection and no used games doesn't mean they are going to happen.  After all rumors on the internet are always true.  If that's the case I guess the $799 PS4 is reality since Sony hasn't officially announced the price but the rumor is out there.
 
2013-04-05 11:14:50 AM  

R66YRobo: Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.


sure, that's the reality of life is that everything doesn't fit the mold we want things to fit, and even if we want things to fail - doesn't mean it'll happen

but the nice thing is that nobody is forcing you to buy an xbox, and there are many good alternatives to buying it

so if the xbox turns you off, don't buy it and move on with your life, simple as that
 
2013-04-05 11:15:26 AM  
Agree with him or not, being a closed-minded dick on Twitter is never the way to go.
 
2013-04-05 11:16:45 AM  
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-04-05 11:20:09 AM  

s1ugg0: KhamanV: Maybe if the US's internet infrastructure and speed weren't actually made up of a giant bowl of dicks trying to operate a treadmill, we could revisit this discussion with more depth on both sides of the debate.  Until then, the situation is fairly shiat.

Whoa.  Hold up.  Telco Engineer here.  Please do not mistake the national fiberoptic infrastructure with your local residential provider.

The fiber between cities and coasts is excellent.  It's your local ISP who refuses to invest in their network and maintenance that is the problem.  Have you ever been inside your local central office?

[lh3.ggpht.com image 640x480]

This is not uncommon.


I am good friends with someone who works on the switch equipment for our local telco, I can verify that this indeed is pretty farking common.

...and scary when you think about it.
 
2013-04-05 11:26:36 AM  

Gergesa: Alonjar: Microsoft looks at it from the perspective of their xbox Live service, which for general discussion purposes never goes down or gets overloaded, because microsoft knows This shiat Matters to their customers. So it makes sense they would have a different perspective, since they dont mind paying the money for appropriate servers and competent programming.

It is a draconian method for trying to counter piracy and it is insulting in the extreme because it treats all customers as presumed guilty.

I absolutely will not purchase products like this from any company and any company who pursues this type of policy will be inciting ill will in their potential customer base.


There is also the more practical point - if you really love a game, and it has always online DRM, and you want to play it again in 10, 20, 30 years time, will you be able to? It is one thing when the DRM is built into a profit centre (like Steam for example) so their is a financial incentive to keep things running way into the future, but for pure online activation, or like the SimCity servers, sooner or later the costs of running them will get those switched off, and then you are stuck unless some hack or fan solution comes along.

It has already been bad enough with PC disk checking DRM some variants of which tend to break a good fraction of games each time a new version of Windows comes out - sometimes this gets fixed over time by the DRM company, but that is another thing you can't rely on forever, or in a few cases I have managed to get de-DRMed versions of the game exe from the developers where the DRM technology no longer gets updated, But there are dozens of games I have that require XP (and a couple that require Windows 98, like Warhammer Shadow of the Horned Rat), which means eventually those games will be difficult to play again, and the vast majority seem to relate to incompatability with the DRM, much fewer have other issues (like graphics card/direct X version, or the OS, or whatever). The only hope then is someone like Steam or GOG or some similar future services pick them up eventually so you can buy them again.
 
2013-04-05 11:36:44 AM  
I purchased an Xbox and an Xbox 360; if the new iteration requires a constant internet connection, I will not buy one. #dealwithit
 
2013-04-05 11:40:24 AM  

nocturnal001: italie: narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


It is nice to know that some farkers have a little common sense.


Huh? Where do you guys work? No, common sense is "do not piss off potential customers in a public forum by saying something stupid".  I'm not nearly as high in my org chart as this guy is, and I know better than to get on twitter and tell my customers to "deal with it". Should this be a firable offense? Probably not, but if I were his boss I've give him a damned hard talking to.



Hey, Captain Observant...I'm on your side.


//Context.
 
2013-04-05 11:45:25 AM  

fluffy2097: Those soldiers in Kandahar should really get with the times and get internet.

I mean, the Taliban provides Internet doesn't it?

And those people on submarines have internet too.

Internet is now a fundamental human right in the military. like water. So you can enjoy it anywhere

/if there is any argument for not making a console online it is the fact you are farking over members of the military by doing so.
//They deserve all the fun time they want.


Deployments and TDYs are bad. Stationed in another country for a long amount of time is worse. I couldn't get any of the American servers perks of XBox Live while i was in England. Some of the games wouldn't download because they saw my xbox as being in Europe and some of those games weren't clear for launch in that area (DOOM on XBLA for example). Also the Indie games wouldn't operate without an active connection to XBL. After about two months i let the subscription lapse because the headaches weren't worth it. Also, screw BT and their damned data caps and their legal monopoly in rural England.

I only illustrate that example because i lived it, i couldn't imagine trying it in other parts of the world. I had thought England would've been the best case scenario. It also sucked because of the whole PAL/NTSC issues that i had as well.

/tl;dr, I could ONLY play single player games that i bought second hand. If i had to do that during this upcoming console generation, i would go on a murderous rampage.
 
2013-04-05 11:51:52 AM  

italie: nocturnal001: italie: narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


It is nice to know that some farkers have a little common sense.


Huh? Where do you guys work? No, common sense is "do not piss off potential customers in a public forum by saying something stupid".  I'm not nearly as high in my org chart as this guy is, and I know better than to get on twitter and tell my customers to "deal with it". Should this be a firable offense? Probably not, but if I were his boss I've give him a damned hard talking to.


Hey, Captain Observant...I'm on your side.


//Context.


Apologies good sir, I missed that "good to know" bit.

No need for formality, you may call me Mr. Observant if you like.
 
2013-04-05 11:53:07 AM  

AdamK: R66YRobo: Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.

sure, that's the reality of life is that everything doesn't fit the mold we want things to fit, and even if we want things to fail - doesn't mean it'll happen

but the nice thing is that nobody is forcing you to buy an xbox, and there are many good alternatives to buying it

so if the xbox turns you off, don't buy it and move on with your life, simple as that


Oh, I had no plans on buying an X-box, I've been basically PC exclusive in my gaming for a few years now (My X-box has not even been turned on in over a year at this point).  Sorry if it sounded like I was railing against X-box, it was more of a rant against people who think that because some people on the internet shout real loud about how bad DRM is, that will somehow override the company's decisions based on profits.
 
2013-04-05 11:56:50 AM  
Time to buy new gamecube games!  I never played Metroid Prime, I heard that is good.  Deal with it.

As an avid gamer, this is why the newest systems I have are gamecube and playstation 2.

My neighborhood still doesn't have fios.  Everyday I have to balance my internet connection between roomates who might be downloading something, watching streaming video, playing an online game.

Electricity is not anything like internet access.  My electricity goes out for two minutes twice a year.  My internet has been spotty for weeks at a time.

What a nitwit.
 
2013-04-05 12:05:30 PM  

zero7717: I know people with XBox 360s who don't have a reliable internet connection, because the terrible ISP they use is the only one with service where they live.

Blame the ISPs, not the customers. If Microsoft wants an always-online console, they should lobby congress to reform our horrible internet infrastructure first.


That battle will be highly interesting:  Microsoft, Sony (and perhaps Steam and Google) v. the ISPs.  Oh the tales that will be told.
 
2013-04-05 12:07:21 PM  

Dion Fortune: Time to buy new gamecube games! I never played Metroid Prime, I heard that is good. Deal with it.

As an avid gamer, this is why the newest systems I have are gamecube and playstation 2.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-04-05 12:08:52 PM  
I wonder if this means they will have built-in wifi this time and not some shiatty add on for $100.  Wow, now that I typed that out, I'm sure they won't have built-in wifi and the adapter will probaboly cost $200 this time.
 
2013-04-05 12:10:38 PM  

debug: I wonder if this means they will have built-in wifi this time and not some shiatty add on for $100.


Their updated xbox (the Slim) already came with built-in wifi.
 
2013-04-05 12:13:27 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Antimatter: The ps4 is largely an aftershock of the ps3's massive failure in terms of profits.  It's based on PC style X86-64, an AMD apu, unified gddr5 ram, with some sony specific tweaks in some areas.  It was designed form the ground up by a legendary game designer with lots of input from other developers.  It's been near universally praised from them as a result.

Good to know, because my PS3 is just an overpriced Blu-Ray player, I don't play any games on it. It sounds like the PS4 though is going to be the X-Box killer and the X-Box 720 (What a stupid name) is going to suck donkey balls.


Ia dmit I don't play many retail ps3 games in the last year or so, mainly PSN titles and PSplus freebies.  the ps3, while it had some nice games, didn't quite match the libraries of the ps1 and ps2 in terms of timeless classics.

The ps4 is, so far, sounding a lot more appealing.  I'm really a huge fan of lets plays and speedruns, and the ps4 seems to be built to accommodate those communities quite well.  the ease of development is said to be quite a huge change, with some tasks that took weeks to months to hammer out on the ps3 taking but days on the ps4.

One of the major benefits that really went under the radar was how sony approached the dev issue.  Back in the ps2 and ps3 days, they had to rely on internal sony documentation and tools, until third party suppliers could provide better ones to help them debug and improve performance.  About midway though the ps3's lifespan, Sony up and bought one of the toolmakers, and had them develop tools to launch day and date with their new platforms.  The vita was the first one to do so, and I don't recall any developer complaining about development difficulties for that platform (not that its getting a lot of major retail games).  the ps4 will similarly have tools and optimization stuff ready day one.

Now, sony is still pushing some 'new' tech with the ps4, but this time it seems to all be related to streaming data, rather then optical disk formats.  Supposedly, the ps4 can stream with no hit to the games, has it has some custom processors dedicated to ether downloading games, or streaming data, outside the normal APU setup.

Comparing the rumored Xbox specs to the ps4's, it seems like both are based on similar designs, with the same basic CPU, but different GPU optimizations, and different ram configurations.
 
2013-04-05 12:14:20 PM  

Rwa2play: That battle will be highly interesting: Microsoft, Sony (and perhaps Steam and Google) v. the ISPs. Oh the tales that will be told.


Does Pocket Ninja get to be the minstrel? I love his stories!

www.snowlineschools.com
 
2013-04-05 12:25:35 PM  
Made a gif of the angry XBox guy but it's too big, so go here.
 
2013-04-05 12:27:22 PM  

Dion Fortune: Time to buy new gamecube games!  I never played Metroid Prime, I heard that is good.  Deal with it.

As an avid gamer, this is why the newest systems I have are gamecube and playstation 2.

My neighborhood still doesn't have fios.  Everyday I have to balance my internet connection between roomates who might be downloading something, watching streaming video, playing an online game.

Electricity is not anything like internet access.  My electricity goes out for two minutes twice a year.  My internet has been spotty for weeks at a time.

What a nitwit.


Metroid Prime 1 & 2 are both great games, even if the controls leave a bit to be desired.  Just don't expect constant combat, as there's a lot more exploration and puzzle solving than a lot of FPS games.

I also usually stick with older consoles, and just recently upgraded to an Xbox 360 after my GameCube started to die.  Unfortunately, if the new systems don't allow for the resale of games, it won't really be much of an option anymore.

That said, I was about to be all outraged about always online, and then I realized I wasn't going to buy it new anyways, so they really don't give a shiat what people like me think.  It's still a stupid move however, and will probably just push me towards PC games in the long run.
 
2013-04-05 12:33:39 PM  

Erix: Dion Fortune: Time to buy new gamecube games!  I never played Metroid Prime, I heard that is good.  Deal with it.

As an avid gamer, this is why the newest systems I have are gamecube and playstation 2.

My neighborhood still doesn't have fios.  Everyday I have to balance my internet connection between roomates who might be downloading something, watching streaming video, playing an online game.

Electricity is not anything like internet access.  My electricity goes out for two minutes twice a year.  My internet has been spotty for weeks at a time.

What a nitwit.

Metroid Prime 1 & 2 are both great games, even if the controls leave a bit to be desired.  Just don't expect constant combat, as there's a lot more exploration and puzzle solving than a lot of FPS games.

I also usually stick with older consoles, and just recently upgraded to an Xbox 360 after my GameCube started to die.  Unfortunately, if the new systems don't allow for the resale of games, it won't really be much of an option anymore.

That said, I was about to be all outraged about always online, and then I realized I wasn't going to buy it new anyways, so they really don't give a shiat what people like me think.  It's still a stupid move however, and will probably just push me towards PC games in the long run.


PC games started the DRM heavy, online only trend.  Heck, they successfully killed the PC used game market years ago.  A lot of publishers seem to be pushing consoles to adopt the same sort of software restrictions to similarly kill their used game market.
 
2013-04-05 12:35:37 PM  
And his little Twitter avatar/face-drawing-thingy just screams "douche."
 
2013-04-05 12:35:38 PM  
Antimatter:  PC games started the DRM heavy, online only trend.  Heck, they successfully killed the PC used game market years ago.  A lot of publishers seem to be pushing consoles to adopt the same sort of software restrictions to similarly kill their used game market.

Ah yes, the "cut my nose off to spite my face" strategy.
 
2013-04-05 12:35:56 PM  

nocturnal001: italie: nocturnal001: italie: narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


It is nice to know that some farkers have a little common sense.


Huh? Where do you guys work? No, common sense is "do not piss off potential customers in a public forum by saying something stupid".  I'm not nearly as high in my org chart as this guy is, and I know better than to get on twitter and tell my customers to "deal with it". Should this be a firable offense? Probably not, but if I were his boss I've give him a damned hard talking to.


Hey, Captain Observant...I'm on your side.


//Context.

Apologies good sir, I missed that "good to know" bit.

No need for formality, you may call me Mr. Observant if you like.


No apologies needed Cpt'...Sir...uhhh Mr.
 
2013-04-05 12:37:18 PM  

Antimatter: PC games started the DRM heavy, online only trend. Heck, they successfully killed the PC used game market years ago. A lot of publishers seem to be pushing consoles to adopt the same sort of software restrictions to similarly kill their used game market.


So what you're saying is that I probably won't be playing many games released after this next generation of consoles comes out.  That kinda sucks, but oh well.  There are enough old games out there to keep me busy for a long time.
 
2013-04-05 12:39:08 PM  

s1ugg0: Antimatter: Flappyhead: You'd think after Sony royally farked the PS3 launch and essentially gave XBOX who knows how many millions as a result Microsoft would have learned not to piss off the fanbase prior to a new system release.

Third console syndrome is in effect.  The xbox did well, and the 360 did excellent in some areas, so MS is seemingly adopting the same thing that sony did for the ps3 and Nintendo for the N64:  make the device they want, gamers be damned.  After all, they think they have a captive audience.

I was always an Xbox player because the PS3 line up didn't appeal to me.  What happened with the PS3 launch?

/Too lazy to google


A variety of things.  First it was delayed because of hardware issues.  That was further compounded by being difficult to develop for which lead to a poor selection of launch titles and a trickle of new releases.  Sony figured it wouldn't matter since the big AAA titles(MGS4, Killzone 2, etc) were on the way and they were dead wrong.  Honestly if it hadn't been for Uncharted I'm not sure how well the sales would have done after year 1.
 
2013-04-05 12:40:13 PM  
I've got an easy solution for those "always on" toys that I got, its a $30 smart power strip.  There are 3 style plugs, some that are always on, some that toggle on and off, and one that controls the ones that toggle.  So my TV or computer plug into the controller switch, items like the monitor, DVD player, gaming systems, etc... are in the controlled switches so that when the TV or computer get turned off, power is physically disabled to those ports.  Items like the DVR are in the always on so that it can keep recording whether the TV is on or off.  Everyone that I knew that got a Wii or PS3/Xbox360 complained about a $20 increase in their power bills from their always on.  Mine actually went down since it is impossible for those devices to connect once their controlling device was turned off.
 
2013-04-05 12:41:45 PM  

beerdini: I've got an easy solution for those "always on" toys that I got, its a $30 smart power strip.  There are 3 style plugs, some that are always on, some that toggle on and off, and one that controls the ones that toggle.  So my TV or computer plug into the controller switch, items like the monitor, DVD player, gaming systems, etc... are in the controlled switches so that when the TV or computer get turned off, power is physically disabled to those ports.  Items like the DVR are in the always on so that it can keep recording whether the TV is on or off.  Everyone that I knew that got a Wii or PS3/Xbox360 complained about a $20 increase in their power bills from their always on.  Mine actually went down since it is impossible for those devices to connect once their controlling device was turned off.


Not sure you get what the "always on" is about here..
 
2013-04-05 12:45:38 PM  
Dear jacknut:
It's a bit asinine that you require online access for something that doesn't need it.  What's next, requiring online access for your toaster or desk lamp?

You want to incorporate more features to encourage or heighten the experience, then fine.  But doing it for little damn reason but as a ham fisted copyright move is just bull.
 
2013-04-05 12:47:59 PM  
I'm going to go against the grain here and say this jerkoff was making an attempt at sarcasm that quickly got out of hand.

/Still refuse to believe MS would purposely botch the Xbox brand.  Especially after they see how quickly all this negativity fosters.
 
2013-04-05 12:55:21 PM  

tacchimonster: I'm going to go against the grain here and say this jerkoff was making an attempt at sarcasm that quickly got out of hand.

/Still refuse to believe MS would purposely botch the Xbox brand.  Especially after they see how quickly all this negativity fosters.


Then you'd think they would announce that it won't require always online.  And soon too, seeing how much negative publicity they're getting over this.
 
2013-04-05 01:06:47 PM  

Erix: Antimatter: PC games started the DRM heavy, online only trend. Heck, they successfully killed the PC used game market years ago. A lot of publishers seem to be pushing consoles to adopt the same sort of software restrictions to similarly kill their used game market.

So what you're saying is that I probably won't be playing many games released after this next generation of consoles comes out.  That kinda sucks, but oh well.  There are enough old games out there to keep me busy for a long time.


Right now, none are confirmed to have DRM to prevent used games, or always online, it's all just rumors.  Hopefully, it stays rumors.
 
2013-04-05 01:10:35 PM  

DicksWii: fluffy2097: Those soldiers in Kandahar should really get with the times and get internet.

I mean, the Taliban provides Internet doesn't it?

And those people on submarines have internet too.

Internet is now a fundamental human right in the military. like water. So you can enjoy it anywhere

/if there is any argument for not making a console online it is the fact you are farking over members of the military by doing so.
//They deserve all the fun time they want.

Deployments and TDYs are bad. Stationed in another country for a long amount of time is worse. I couldn't get any of the American servers perks of XBox Live while i was in England. Some of the games wouldn't download because they saw my xbox as being in Europe and some of those games weren't clear for launch in that area (DOOM on XBLA for example). Also the Indie games wouldn't operate without an active connection to XBL. After about two months i let the subscription lapse because the headaches weren't worth it. Also, screw BT and their damned data caps and their legal monopoly in rural England.

I only illustrate that example because i lived it, i couldn't imagine trying it in other parts of the world. I had thought England would've been the best case scenario. It also sucked because of the whole PAL/NTSC issues that i had as well.

/tl;dr, I could ONLY play single player games that i bought second hand. If i had to do that during this upcoming console generation, i would go on a murderous rampage.


This seems to only be a problem with the 360. The ps3 is the perfect system to take abroad. I am currently using an American PS3 in Russia, so this is all first-hand. First of all, it's unadvertised and not labelled, but it has a universal power supply, so there is no need for voltage conversion, only a plug adapter. Secondly, disc based ps3 games are pretty much region free, so I can buy almost any game here and use it normally. PSN games aren't locked to accounts, so I can download games using my Russian account and play them with my American one to keep all the trophies on the same account. The only two problems are that DLC for games is region locked (but with two accounts, that's not a big problem), and that Blu-ray movies are also region-locked. But yeah, that's not a big issue. Other than that, a playstation is the best bet to take abroad.
 
2013-04-05 01:10:45 PM  

Flappyhead: s1ugg0: Antimatter: Flappyhead: You'd think after Sony royally farked the PS3 launch and essentially gave XBOX who knows how many millions as a result Microsoft would have learned not to piss off the fanbase prior to a new system release.

Third console syndrome is in effect.  The xbox did well, and the 360 did excellent in some areas, so MS is seemingly adopting the same thing that sony did for the ps3 and Nintendo for the N64:  make the device they want, gamers be damned.  After all, they think they have a captive audience.

I was always an Xbox player because the PS3 line up didn't appeal to me.  What happened with the PS3 launch?

/Too lazy to google

A variety of things.  First it was delayed because of hardware issues.  That was further compounded by being difficult to develop for which lead to a poor selection of launch titles and a trickle of new releases.  Sony figured it wouldn't matter since the big AAA titles(MGS4, Killzone 2, etc) were on the way and they were dead wrong.  Honestly if it hadn't been for Uncharted I'm not sure how well the sales would have done after year 1.


It wasn't uncharted that saved them, it was the ps3 slim dropping to $299, and the excellent Kevin Butler ads.  Uncharted 1 was an average game over all, that series didn't become awesome till UC2 blew people away.  MGS4 was a massive hit though.
 
2013-04-05 01:12:06 PM  
I don't know why, but I somehow find it fitting that this Adam Orth chap was a creative director over at LucasArts...
 
2013-04-05 01:21:13 PM  

Antimatter: Erix: Antimatter: PC games started the DRM heavy, online only trend. Heck, they successfully killed the PC used game market years ago. A lot of publishers seem to be pushing consoles to adopt the same sort of software restrictions to similarly kill their used game market.

So what you're saying is that I probably won't be playing many games released after this next generation of consoles comes out.  That kinda sucks, but oh well.  There are enough old games out there to keep me busy for a long time.

Right now, none are confirmed to have DRM to prevent used games, or always online, it's all just rumors.  Hopefully, it stays rumors.


---

Jesus, one can only hope.

If I had to place a bet, though, it would be that all this "Microsoft retooling the new Xbox to compete with Sony's PS4" talk we've been hearing about lately is actually MS last-ditch scramble to strip away all the "always on" aspects they originally designed into their new console so that they don't look like complete fools.

Then again, I've never exactly had the best luck at the table.  So in all likelihood we all better start getting used to the Playstation controller again.
 
2013-04-05 01:29:45 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Erix: Cyno01: He kinda has a point. Yeah it sucks for rural folks without access to broadband, but internet has become a utility. They didnt used to be able to get electricity out in the sticks either, did that stop anyone from selling electric lights? If my power goes out frequently do i biatch that all my stupid devices need to be plugged in to work, or do i biatch about my power company?

Except they are intentionally designing in this requirement, that is otherwise not an intrinsic part of the product.  Your analogy doesn't work because light bulbs fill no purpose without electricity.  A gaming system without internet still works as a gaming system.  Well, apparently except for the next Xbox.

That's why his vacuum cleaner analogy fails. If my electricity goes out, my xbox won't work either, so I shouldn't buy an xbox? The vacuum cleaner REQUIRES energy to run. If Hoover built a vacuum that requires an always-online connection, no way in hell will I buy that vacuum.


"I'm sorry but I can't reach the Hoover update servers. 'Suck' has been disabled until such a time as connectivity is restored. 'Blow' engaged."
 
2013-04-05 01:40:08 PM  

StrangeQ: nocturnal001: I seriously might not buy the new Xbox if its always on.

Yes, you will.  And they know it.

It doesn't matter what kind of abuse game and console developers pile on gamers, they will always come back and buy because they are hopelessly and pathetically addicted.


Over-simplification is overly simplified
 
2013-04-05 01:43:22 PM  

Antimatter: PC games started the DRM heavy, online only trend. Heck, they successfully killed the PC used game market years ago. A lot of publishers seem to be pushing consoles to adopt the same sort of software restrictions to similarly kill their used game market.


While this is true, the fact that PC gaming is a thriving, competitive marketplace ensures that games are priced accordingly (i.e. Steam sales).  I see little reason to hope that console gaming will end up the same way, especially considering that any move against used games will essentially kill all dedicated game retailers, from Gamestop down to the mom-and-pop shops, and leave the entire industry in the hands of WalMart and Best Buy.
 
2013-04-05 01:50:51 PM  

ederosia: Telling customers to "deal with it" is bad, but it's only a symptom. Believing -- behind closed doors -- that consumers should just "deal with it" is the disease. It's a deadly disease.


It is and it isn't. In a software product sense, video games are incredibly expensive to produce and are of extremely high value for users. I'm consistently surprised that any ever get produced at all. They are far more complex than line-of-business applications that are orders of magnitude more expensive. Users' standards for quality are impossibly high. Not only does the game have to "work", it has to be fun, too. All this for $60, and the hardware to run it on costs what? $400? That's pretty amazing, compared to other multi-thousand-person-hour systems.

I know that probably doesn't make anyone feel any better, but you should take a moment to appreciate what you're getting compared to other software users (Oracle users know what I'm talking about).

That having been said, any and all efforts to curate a game's user base and try to squeeze profit out of it is understandable. Endeavoring to make video games is a labor of love, emphasis on labor. The gaming community is the most discriminating and vocal user base in the world, with the lowest level of technical proficiency, all engaged in what would be most accurately described as intentionally wasting their own time. Take a moment to pour out some Mountain Dew for the companies willing to engage this angry mob of impoverished malcontents before you start up the rending of garments :)
 
2013-04-05 01:54:42 PM  
My theory right now is that he was actually put up to this by the company itself.  Get all the outrage all out of people's systems now, so that when the product does finally hit the shelves, all these people who right now are saying half-heartedly "Gee whiz, I might not even buy this now", will have already come back around to "Is it out yet?  Can I give you my money yet?!  Oh pleasepleaseplease let me buy it, I don't care about that online stuff."  Microsoft knows, as we do, that those people were always going to buy it, but they need them to buy it in the first week or month in order to meet their sales projections.  Now, when this discussion comes up again around launch time, those people will already have come to grips with it and the rest of the people who are still outraged will just look like they're beating a horse that died many months and miles back.
 
2013-04-05 02:07:22 PM  

Klivian: Kiribub: Well, if by "deal with it" you mean "exercise choice when purchasing a new console" and send my money to a different company? Sure thing.

Problem is that the PS4 looks like garbage as well. I don't need a constant twitter feed running on the side while I play a game, thanks.

If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.


I've moved towards PC for everything as well. With Steam, Mods, and Cheats it's a clear winner for me.
 
2013-04-05 02:13:49 PM  
Goddamit, am I going to have to just stop trying to enjoy playing new video games? It's getting to be too much goddam work. GoG.com, you're the best.
 
2013-04-05 02:13:54 PM  

beerdini: I've got an easy solution for those "always on" toys that I got, its a $30 smart power strip.  There are 3 style plugs, some that are always on, some that toggle on and off, and one that controls the ones that toggle.  So my TV or computer plug into the controller switch, items like the monitor, DVD player, gaming systems, etc... are in the controlled switches so that when the TV or computer get turned off, power is physically disabled to those ports.  Items like the DVR are in the always on so that it can keep recording whether the TV is on or off.  Everyone that I knew that got a Wii or PS3/Xbox360 complained about a $20 increase in their power bills from their always on.  Mine actually went down since it is impossible for those devices to connect once their controlling device was turned off.


Not sure if serious....
 
2013-04-05 02:14:25 PM  

Alonjar: I agree in general with the "get with the times" statement though...


UNC_Samurai: It's been five years since I was in the Gamestop trenches, and I imagine the numbers are slightly different now.  When I gave up being the manager and went back to grad school in the fall of 2007, we had just gone through the Madden/NCAA 08 releases and were preparing for the Halo 3 launch.  I would say that at least 40% of my customers did not have access to broadband internet, and therefore had no ability to play the games online.  Shadowrun was released that same summer, and its sales were terrible not just because the game wasn't much good, but because customers of mine who were willing to preorder it did not do so because it was online-only, and if you didn't live within Time-Warner's fiefdom there was no way you were getting anything other than 56k through Embarq out in the county.


Beyond that, there's also the fact that you had to pay for Xbox Live Gold if you did have a connection good enough to play the game with. So: Xbox owners -56K or unconnected owners -Silver owners = the base number of potential customers for Shadowrun. Then there's customers who don't like online shooters, customers who don't like Shadowrun specfically, customers who don't have any friends who like online shooters...
 
2013-04-05 02:20:55 PM  

digistil: Strategeryz0r: Gentlemen(I would say ladies too but it IS a gaming thread),

The choice is clear.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x478]

LOL!!! Did you read the review on the Verge?


The same review that complained it was shaped like the Chinese takeout box? And was upset about the "lack of AAA titles" at launch, not even mentioning that the retail launch isn't until June?

IGN and engadget did much more even-handed reviews. There are definitely legitimate gripes about the Ouya (possible controller issues particularly concern me, since hardware issues are harder to fix), but the writer at Verge clearly had a grudge or a bias (or something).
 
2013-04-05 02:28:34 PM  

Cyno01: Ignored "Cyno01". If you want to completely hide ignored user comments, change the "Show header of ignored comments" option in your user profile.


It did, in fact, prevent them from selling electric lights in "the sticks." The difference being that once rural areas had electricity- which took a fark of a lot longer than you probably think it did, at least in some areas -they didn't then revise the design of the lightbulb and decide to tack on more requirements than just electricity.

Better question than your power outage one: if they decide to show naked contempt for potential customers and make their product more exclusive, who exactly is being hurt?
 
2013-04-05 02:32:19 PM  

Supes: digistil: Strategeryz0r: Gentlemen(I would say ladies too but it IS a gaming thread),

The choice is clear.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x478]

LOL!!! Did you read the review on the Verge?

The same review that complained it was shaped like the Chinese takeout box? And was upset about the "lack of AAA titles" at launch, not even mentioning that the retail launch isn't until June?

IGN and engadget did much more even-handed reviews. There are definitely legitimate gripes about the Ouya (possible controller issues particularly concern me, since hardware issues are harder to fix), but the writer at Verge clearly had a grudge or a bias (or something).


The Ouyas biggest issue is well, it doesn't seem to know what it wants to be.  Is it a game console?  a apple/google tv style set top box, an android indie development kit, what?  So far it sounds like it tries to be all of those, but doesn't really succeed at any of them.
 
2013-04-05 02:34:46 PM  

narkor: So some farkers believe that anything said on a public forum that can be tied back to their place of employment should reflect on their employability.

Good to know.


That's a pretty disingenuous, reductio-ad-absurdum way of looking at it. I assume intentionally so, to make some kind of point, probably political. Correct me if I'm wrong, I won't see either way.

But you should be aware, for the sake of your own future employability, that any public statements you make about your company's own product and policies is going to reflect on the company, especially if you have "director" in your title. And if you have made them in a douchey way, the public will be unhappy, and odds are your superiors will then be unhappy.
 
2013-04-05 02:38:39 PM  
Looks like Francis here isn't taking the news very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW28VSmXnCo
 
2013-04-05 02:54:47 PM  

Antimatter: The Ouyas biggest issue is well, it doesn't seem to know what it wants to be.  Is it a game console?  a apple/google tv style set top box, an android indie development kit, what?  So far it sounds like it tries to be all of those, but doesn't really succeed at any of them.


I mean, the original idea behind the Ouya was to create a console development platform where anyone could make and market a game (in contrast to the relatively difficult development environments from the main consoles).

This has been twisted, both in reviews, the news, and by Ouya itself. Now I see reviews comparing Ouya to the 360 and PS3, which is ridiculous. And the good people at Ouya are trying to get all these new apps released (emulators and various streaming services chief among them) that also fall outside the "purpose" of Ouya.

Frankly, I have no idea where the system will end up, but I'm very curious to see how development has progressed when the retail release arrives in June. I've been putting off getting an Android stick, and might get the Ouya instead if things look like they're heading in the right direction.
 
2013-04-05 03:01:11 PM  
NO GUYS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND

WE NEED TO PROTECT THE CORPORATIONS' PROFITS AT NO DISCERNIBLE BENEFIT TO OUR OWN INTERESTS

THAT'S WHAT CAPITALISM IS ALL ABOUT
 
2013-04-05 03:15:38 PM  

tboucher: You know why this shiat works and they keep doing it?

Because millions of idiots keep buying the stuff even after biatching about it.

Diablo 3...Simcity ....all examples of horrible fails of a launch yet people line up and throw money at them.

They know you people just biatch and moan and then throw money at it so you can biatch and moan and try and get something out of them for free.

No one learns.


That's true, but don't you feel that these problems are a bit overblown?  Ok, I couldn't play Diablo 3 for a couple of days...that's it.  Same with Simcity.  Christ, I couldn't play a game for a couple of days, it will be ok.  Also, when it comes to always connected, everyone here obviously has the internet.  Ok, so most are complaining in favor of those who DON'T have the internet?  I get the military posts and that stinks if everything is true about this but for the average person, don't we all have the farking internet at this point?  As far as it going down, the absolute worst example in gaming history seems to be Simcity.  People couldn't play that game for a week.  That's it.  And that's the worst possible outcome, you wouldn't be able to play a video game for a week.  And that's unlikely to happen to MS' servers.  No one died, no ones 401k got stolen, you couldn't play a game for a week.  As far as the guy saying "deal with it", who cares?  Do we all have paper thin skin at this point?  OOOOO, he said deal with it, how unprofessional.

No matter how hard I try, I just CAN'T get worked up over video games.  I just like reading these threads and seeing the professional victims come out of the woodwork.
 
2013-04-05 03:17:00 PM  

LeafyGreens: Looks like Francis here isn't taking the news very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW28VSmXnCo


Nice perspective on life, that video.

/feels better about self already
//has done some horrible things in his time
///nobody ever pulled an axe on my, erm, current-self-in-leiu-of-future self. (is that the equiv of him axin a 360?)
 
2013-04-05 03:26:17 PM  
It's funny that I've found myself moving towards PC games more and more myself. I still have and enjoy my PS3, since the majority of games I play on it never come out on anything else (Mainly the Disgaea Series, some Dynasty Warriors games, stuff like that).

Course, I'm hardly one to get the latest and greatest thing when it comes out on PC either.

Course, i couldn't be more pleased to see MS shooting themselves int he foot. I don't know how, but somehow the X-Box seems responsible for the 'dudebro' segment of gamers that were dragged in by Halo and love their FPS games and Sports games. I'm sure there are plenty of gamers who play those that aren't insufferable douchebags, and that they always existed, but their numbers severely increased thanks to the X-Box, so seeing MS stumble like this is delightful.
 
2013-04-05 03:32:02 PM  

LeafyGreens: Looks like Francis here isn't taking the news very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW28VSmXnCo


I was wondering when he was going to make a video.
 
2013-04-05 03:39:46 PM  

uttertosh: ///nobody ever pulled an axe on my, erm, current-self-in-leiu-of-future self. (is that the equiv of him axin a 360?)


It's a character he plays. He has a plethora of broken consoles and whatnot people give him, just for the show. It isn't the first he's "destroyed", won't be the last.

Regardless, the things he said? Spot on right.
 
2013-04-05 03:41:08 PM  
MS needs to fire this douchenozzle to save face.
 
2013-04-05 03:46:44 PM  

uttertosh: LeafyGreens: Looks like Francis here isn't taking the news very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW28VSmXnCo

Nice perspective on life, that video.

/feels better about self already
//has done some horrible things in his time
///nobody ever pulled an axe on my, erm, current-self-in-leiu-of-future self. (is that the equiv of him axin a 360?)


He's doing a bit. I mean the morbid obesity isn't a bit but the behavior is.
 
2013-04-05 03:47:31 PM  

Supes: Antimatter: The Ouyas biggest issue is well, it doesn't seem to know what it wants to be.  Is it a game console?  a apple/google tv style set top box, an android indie development kit, what?  So far it sounds like it tries to be all of those, but doesn't really succeed at any of them.

I mean, the original idea behind the Ouya was to create a console development platform where anyone could make and market a game (in contrast to the relatively difficult development environments from the main consoles).

This has been twisted, both in reviews, the news, and by Ouya itself. Now I see reviews comparing Ouya to the 360 and PS3, which is ridiculous. And the good people at Ouya are trying to get all these new apps released (emulators and various streaming services chief among them) that also fall outside the "purpose" of Ouya.

Frankly, I have no idea where the system will end up, but I'm very curious to see how development has progressed when the retail release arrives in June. I've been putting off getting an Android stick, and might get the Ouya instead if things look like they're heading in the right direction.


The problem is, well, it's not all that difficult anymore, to make a console game.  Sony and Nintendo are making heavy pushes to get more indie games on their platforms, to the point of giving some free dev kits, and lowing barriers to entry for others.  Heck, you can make a PSmobile game for the android/vita system for like, $100 fee.  MS has XBLIG, but i've heard they are dicks to work with these days.

The rise of digital distribution, and a userbase hungry for cheaper indie games was a boon to that industry.  you also have steam for the PC which is pretty easy to make and release a game for.

Even the damn vita is doing pretty well for indies, who are making a fair bit of cash form it's users, and isn't hard to dev for.  At GDC, pretty much every indie dev of note said they had plans for the platform, or for the ps4.  Nintendo gives you a copy of Unity 4 with all wii dev kits, which are only about $3k a pop.  Unlimited patches as well.
 
2013-04-05 03:51:58 PM  

RoxtarRyan: uttertosh: ///nobody ever pulled an axe on my, erm, current-self-in-leiu-of-future self. (is that the equiv of him axin a 360?)

It's a character he plays. He has a plethora of broken consoles and whatnot people give him, just for the show. It isn't the first he's "destroyed", won't be the last.

Regardless, the things he said? Spot on right.


I just watched his youtube stuff. You have right, it's just show. He's still a poopy-head lard-ass gamer.This represents the legions exactly (to us dorks who lead other lives, too) So, quit your BS and get behind the idea that 'always online' gaming is a thing of the future past. monthly female vaginal blood discharge. Full stop.
 
2013-04-05 03:53:39 PM  
*period
 
2013-04-05 03:53:50 PM  

Dragonflew: MS needs to fire this douchenozzle to save face.



See, even if there were absolutely NO plans to make it always on, even if he WAS joking (doubtful since he went 1vs1 with individual twitter users and developers)... really, unless someone takes a fall on this, they've already lost sales. Someone is going to have to be sacrificed. Someone is going to have to be the effigy to calm the masses.
 
2013-04-05 03:54:42 PM  

Antimatter: The Ouyas biggest issue is well, it doesn't seem to know what it wants to be.  Is it a game console?  a apple/google tv style set top box, an android indie development kit, what?  So far it sounds like it tries to be all of those, but doesn't really succeed at any of them.


Yeah, but for $100 (including a controller), I don't mind finding out.  Pre-ordered.
 
2013-04-05 03:56:55 PM  

uttertosh: So, quit your BS and get behind the idea that 'always online' gaming is a thing of the future past.


Please, continue. I would love to hear more about this. Especially since individual games alone that were released as "always on" were so successful (leading one company to have his CEO quit), forget an entire console with a much more widespread audience being "always online".
 
2013-04-05 04:04:39 PM  
Antimatter: [--snip-- lots of good points]

All true. Well, if nothing else the Ouya looks like it's going to be a heck of an awesome way to emulate old games on the big screen.
 
2013-04-05 04:11:44 PM  
Hmm.  Mr. Orth's tweets are protected now.

Looks like he couldn't...
(Caruso glasses)
... deal with it.

/ Insert yeah here
// Why doesn't that ever get old?
/// <-- Come in threes
 
2013-04-05 04:13:23 PM  

Egoy3k: uttertosh: LeafyGreens: Looks like Francis here isn't taking the news very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW28VSmXnCo

Nice perspective on life, that video.

/feels better about self already
//has done some horrible things in his time
///nobody ever pulled an axe on my, erm, current-self-in-leiu-of-future self. (is that the equiv of him axin a 360?)

He's doing a bit. I mean the morbid obesity isn't a bit but the behavior is.


Why have I never seen this fella before? He's great!

Though, I think my cholesterol went up about 20 points just watching that video. And the short arm thing... that's uh... he should get that checked out.
 
2013-04-05 04:18:27 PM  

Klivian: If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.


I'm in the same boat.  Been a gamer all my life, got my start on the wood paneled Atari 2600.  From everything I've been hearing so far, I will not be a console gamer after the current generation.  I'm not in the coveted "dudebro" demographic, so the producers aren't even making a token effort to woo me anymore.

As far as I'm concerned, indie gaming is where it's at right now anyway.  FTL, To the Moon, The Last Survivor, Legend of Grimrock, etc.  These are all games that are every bit as good as AAA studio releases, but for $5-$20.  That's why I wanted to cockpunch Dude Huge a few weeks ago when he was whining that to make a good game you "need" $100 million.
 
2013-04-05 04:19:40 PM  

extroverted_suicide:  To the Moon


Cried like a farking baby. Then I bought it for ten friends.
 
2013-04-05 04:22:08 PM  

R66YRobo: Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.


I respectfully disagree.  When was the last time you just blindly purchased a game without at least doing a quick Google search of it's features (and DRM limitations)?  While not all DRM warrants skipping titles, it's already weighing in on our purchasing decisions.

Speaking for myself now, I definitely have already changed my process of purchasing a new game (or console).   Prior to Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3, I was willing to blindly purchase anything Blizzard, as I thoroughly enjoyed Diablo 1 and 2, Warcraft series, Starcraft, etc and felt they could do no wrong.  However, I have already learned not to buy a Blizzard game without waiting to see how it's received, as they've frustrated me enough with their decisions (ie, always on, real-money AH, etc).  Furthermore, the press from EA recently has taught me to certainly hesitate with their titles (I almost got pulled into Star Wars, The Old Republic, but convinced myself to stay away during the initial launch--turned out to be the right decision, and most recently with SimCity).  While I'm anecdotal, I'm certainly not unique.

While it's true that these "always-on experiments" haven't necessarily hit their bottom-dollar yet, they've certainly hit their reputations--argue if you want that "it doesn't matter," there's definitely a financial value associated to your developers' reputations:  how many people have a favorable opinion of Blizzard or the Diablo-series now?  How many people have a favorable opinion of EA, Maxis, or SimCity?  If Blizzard released a Diablo 4 within the next couple years, do you honestly think it'd have the same anticipation as Diablo 3 did?  Sure they're making money now, but every bailing customer is a herald campaigning for another developer--it's only a matter of time until the money follows.

TLDR:  as gamers we've already been taught that we have to actually research the games and their "features" (including the DRM limitations) before we decide if we can accept them or not, vs. the blindly purchasing "Super first-person shooter #4:  Return of the one-hit-kill melee attacks" just because it followed #3.

/Purchased a PS3, and watched it morph into a DLNA-media playing device while I game on my PC again
//Definitely skipping the Xbox 720 if it's always-on
///Pirates should not have a better game-play experience than legitimate owners...just sayin'
 
2013-04-05 04:25:43 PM  

Hiro Nakamura: So what I'm hearing is fark me if I have to deploy to another shiathole and want to take my games with me.


Official Microsoft Respons: Why not just tether your system to your Windows phone? It's awesome.
 
2013-04-05 04:29:32 PM  

FarkGrudge: Speaking for myself now, I definitely have already changed my process of purchasing a new game (or console).


Hosting a video game competition at a bar in a month, and it is a goddamn pain to find 31 different games that don't require a live internet connection to do even multiplayer (even split-screen is becoming scarce in new games). While I'm resorting to using more "classic" games than I intended (Sonic the Hedgehog vs mode, for example, with the top and bottom split screen), I was really hoping to be able to include more modern games. Unfortunately, it seems like the days of LAN gaming and split screen are gone in favor of monthly-access-fee based gaming.
 
2013-04-05 04:31:09 PM  

ducklord666: Hmm.  Mr. Orth's tweets are protected now.

Looks like he couldn't...
(Caruso glasses)
... deal with it.

/ Insert yeah here
// Why doesn't that ever get old?
/// <-- Come in threes


I don't know why, but it made me laugh. Nice job
 
2013-04-05 04:31:56 PM  

Mike_LowELL: NO GUYS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND

WE NEED TO PROTECT THE CORPORATIONS' PROFITS AT NO DISCERNIBLE BENEFIT TO OUR OWN INTERESTS

THAT'S WHAT CAPITALISM IS ALL ABOUT


i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-05 04:34:22 PM  

RoxtarRyan: I'm going to be running a video game tournament at a bar I work at, and have to be very careful to pick out games that offer local, same-system multiplayer. What ever happened to being able to do offline LAN multiplayer without having to go through a server hundreds or thousands of miles away?


Yeah same here, I remember playing some epic WC3 tournaments with my schoolmates on the class LAN sans internet.

I really miss that, at least give me the option!
 
2013-04-05 04:50:38 PM  

fluffy2097: /the new gamestation requires colorectal DRM
//but at least it screens for polyps and prostate cancer while it's farking you in the ass.


Yes, but unfortunately they will only give you the screening results as DLC.
 
2013-04-05 04:55:25 PM  

Cytokine Storm: Mike_LowELL: NO GUYS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND

WE NEED TO PROTECT THE CORPORATIONS' PROFITS AT NO DISCERNIBLE BENEFIT TO OUR OWN INTERESTS

THAT'S WHAT CAPITALISM IS ALL ABOUT

[i.imgur.com image 700x525]


Interesting enough, that game owes a ton of it's popularity to steam sales highlighting it.  It actually sold well beyond the teams projections, and funded their newer translation projects.  Fun as hell game, really hoping for a second one someday.

extroverted_suicide: Klivian: If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.

I'm in the same boat.  Been a gamer all my life, got my start on the wood paneled Atari 2600.  From everything I've been hearing so far, I will not be a console gamer after the current generation.  I'm not in the coveted "dudebro" demographic, so the producers aren't even making a token effort to woo me anymore.

As far as I'm concerned, indie gaming is where it's at right now anyway.  FTL, To the Moon, The Last Survivor, Legend of Grimrock, etc.  These are all games that are every bit as good as AAA studio releases, but for $5-$20.  That's why I wanted to cockpunch Dude Huge a few weeks ago when he was whining that to make a good game you "need" $100 million.


See above in the thread.  Two of the consoles are making heavy pushes for those games and their developers, to pad out their online services and give gamers an alternative to the high budget AAA games.

It's kinda cool that there are more indie games on my to buy list these days then traditional console or handheld titles.  Taken as a whole, I bought more small games then generation, and on the vita, then traditional games as well.  I'm more then happy to pay for an indie title at releast for $10 and just wait for price drops on most mainstream games, with a few exceptions.
 
2013-04-05 05:30:02 PM  
Go on. Keep treating your customers with utter disdain.

farm3.static.flickr.com
 
2013-04-05 05:46:38 PM  
It's weird to me that so many people have jumped to the conclusion that this always connected console is actually going to happen, just because of some Kotaku rumor and sarcastic twitter comments by a guy.  Maybe I'll be eating crow, but it would be a logistical nightmare to even try and implement.  Not every country they sell the Xbox in supports Live as it is, and they sell it in several countries with spotty to no internet service which they'd be essentially sacrificing, not to mention licensing issues this would cause.  That's just the beginning of the problems they'd face, and I can't think of anything that always online would benefit them in order to take such drastic steps.
 
2013-04-05 05:52:13 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: It's weird to me that so many people have jumped to the conclusion that this always connected console is actually going to happen, just because of some Kotaku rumor and sarcastic twitter comments by a guy.  Maybe I'll be eating crow, but it would be a logistical nightmare to even try and implement.  Not every country they sell the Xbox in supports Live as it is, and they sell it in several countries with spotty to no internet service which they'd be essentially sacrificing, not to mention licensing issues this would cause.  That's just the beginning of the problems they'd face, and I can't think of anything that always online would benefit them in order to take such drastic steps.


Still, Microsoft just released a statement apologizing for the tweets, but ended with "however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter" instead of putting the issue down altogether by denying that it would be always-online.
 
2013-04-05 06:11:19 PM  

Erix: Lumbar Puncture: It's weird to me that so many people have jumped to the conclusion that this always connected console is actually going to happen, just because of some Kotaku rumor and sarcastic twitter comments by a guy.  Maybe I'll be eating crow, but it would be a logistical nightmare to even try and implement.  Not every country they sell the Xbox in supports Live as it is, and they sell it in several countries with spotty to no internet service which they'd be essentially sacrificing, not to mention licensing issues this would cause.  That's just the beginning of the problems they'd face, and I can't think of anything that always online would benefit them in order to take such drastic steps.

Still, Microsoft just released a statement apologizing for the tweets, but ended with "however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter" instead of putting the issue down altogether by denying that it would be always-online.


Well yeah, why would they say anything about their future service plans when they haven't even announced the name of the system yet?  They obviously have a plan with how they are handling the announcement of their new system and aren't going to release the details of that just because game websites are spreading rumors for hits.  Rumors ran for nearly a year about the PS4 blocking used games, Sony didn't comment on those at that time either.

Just seems weird there's so much anger about a console without an official name or even a known release date, just because there's speculation about it being 'always online' even though that would be market suicide.
 
2013-04-05 06:36:47 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Just seems weird there's so much anger about a console without an official name or even a known release date, just because there's speculation about it being 'always online' even though that would be market suicide.


That just shows how interested people are in the next generation Xbox.
 
2013-04-05 06:44:41 PM  

Dragonflew: extroverted_suicide:  To the Moon

Cried like a farking baby. Then I bought it for ten friends.


The trailer looks rather interesting. It looks like a reworked ChronoTrigger.
 
2013-04-05 07:58:18 PM  
Don't call it a comeback, PC gaming's been here for years.
 
2013-04-05 09:10:56 PM  

broktune: That's true, but don't you feel that these problems are a bit overblown?  Ok, I couldn't play Diablo 3 for a couple of days...that's it.  Same with Simcity.  Christ, I couldn't play a game for a couple of days, it will be ok.  Also, when it comes to always connected, everyone here obviously has the internet.  Ok, so most are complaining in favor of those who DON'T have the internet?  I get the military posts and that stinks if everything is true about this but for the average person, don't we all have the farking internet at this point?  As far as it going down, the absolute worst example in gaming history seems to be Simcity.  People couldn't play that game for a week.  That's it.  And that's the worst possible outcome, you wouldn't be able to play a video game for a week.  And that's unlikely to happen to MS' servers.  No one died, no ones 401k got stolen, you couldn't play a game for a week.  As far as the guy saying "deal with it", who cares?  Do we all have paper thin skin at this point?  OOOOO, he said deal with it, how unprofessional.

No matter how hard I try, I just CAN'T get worked up over video games.  I just like reading these threads and seeing the professional victims come out of the woodwork.


Well... SimCity is in a league of its own here.  It wasnt a few days... it didnt work for weeks, and it STILL doesnt have functionality restored.  You can make cities, but the system isnt working like its supposed to with regions at all.
 
2013-04-05 09:16:03 PM  

germ78: Dragonflew: extroverted_suicide:  To the Moon

Cried like a farking baby. Then I bought it for ten friends.

The trailer looks rather interesting. It looks like a reworked ChronoTrigger.


From what I understand, it's Chrono Trigger meets the first ten minutes of Up.
 
2013-04-05 09:26:44 PM  

soporific: germ78: Dragonflew: extroverted_suicide:  To the Moon

Cried like a farking baby. Then I bought it for ten friends.

The trailer looks rather interesting. It looks like a reworked ChronoTrigger.

From what I understand, it's Chrono Trigger meets the first ten minutes of Up.


There is one thread on the Steam forum that was started as a greeting from the developer. It has passed 500 replies now, 99.9% of them are people who are telling the dev that To the Moon was one of the most moving experiences they have ever had in a video game, and most people admitted to crying at least once, both out of sadness and happiness. I have never been that affected by a video game before, and likely never will be again.  It's only $10.  It goes on sale often for $3-4 but it is worth every penny even at the full price.
 
2013-04-05 11:51:57 PM  
http://i.minus.com/iZ4Xc7uzxvJUA.gif

One of those long animated GIFs that is worth the click.
 
2013-04-06 02:48:15 AM  
I am gonna go out on a limb here and say MS is trolling.  They have not directly confirmed nor denied these rumors.  When the system gets a full showing at E3, I'll bet they spotlight that it, in fact, does not need an always on connection.

In the meantime, principles of customer service are in play.  Happy customer tells one person, pissed off customer tells 10.  They currently have a serious buzz going on for their product.  When they ride in and announce these things were never true,  they look like saviors.

"There is no such thing as bad publicity."
 
2013-04-06 02:57:58 AM  
I have such a connection at home but I have a different angle -

As a military member, Navy specifically, we often bring a few consoles with us on deployment.  I'm an officer, and we had a 360 and PS3 in our stateroom on the carrier.

We would never be allowed to connect a game console to the ship's internet connection, nor does the ship have the bandwidth allocated to regular internet to actually make the network connection functional in even the most rudimentary sense for a modern game console.

As far as I know from marine buddies, they didn't have their consoles connected online in Afghanistan or Iraq either.

So next gen farks the entire deployed military from being able to play.  Thanks.
 
2013-04-06 05:53:26 AM  

rpm: randomjsa: I've always said that no product could ever have the failure rate of the 360 and remain on the market... I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a high end video card had that kind of failure rate.

Or even better, a hard drive.

Nothing? Western Digital Green had huge failure rates because of a design flaw.


How about capacitors?  That one was rather big.  I thought the WDG issue was because it's WD and they're shiat?  It's a shame they're the only game in town now for HDD's.
 
rpm
2013-04-06 09:18:30 AM  

Vaneshi: How about capacitors?  That one was rather big.  I thought the WDG issue was because it's WD and they're shiat?  It's a shame they're the only game in town now for HDD's.


The capacitors weren't something consumer visible, and made everything shiat.

The WDG parked so often that the number of duty cycles skyrocketed and caused premature failure.
 
2013-04-06 11:17:10 AM  

LeafyGreens: Looks like Francis here isn't taking the news very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW28VSmXnCo


blue_2501: http://i.minus.com/iZ4Xc7uzxvJUA.gif

One of those long animated GIFs that is worth the click.


Just chiming in to say I found both of these pretty hilarious.
 
2013-04-06 12:09:00 PM  

duffman13: I have such a connection at home but I have a different angle -

As a military member, Navy specifically, we often bring a few consoles with us on deployment.  I'm an officer, and we had a 360 and PS3 in our stateroom on the carrier.

We would never be allowed to connect a game console to the ship's internet connection, nor does the ship have the bandwidth allocated to regular internet to actually make the network connection functional in even the most rudimentary sense for a modern game console.

As far as I know from marine buddies, they didn't have their consoles connected online in Afghanistan or Iraq either.

So next gen farks the entire deployed military from being able to play.  Thanks.


Sounds like a good enough reason to no longer go to war then, huh?

"Sorry guys! We don't wanna fight y'all cuz we won't be able to enjoy our time off while we're over there."
 
2013-04-06 08:22:15 PM  

Mordis: "There is no such thing as bad publicity."


Really? Why don't you ask Gary Glitter about that one?
 
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