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(Kotaku)   It's amazing how many high-level execs refuse to learn that "always on and connected" is not a good thing   (kotaku.com) divider line 237
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8322 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Apr 2013 at 8:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 03:47:31 PM  

Supes: Antimatter: The Ouyas biggest issue is well, it doesn't seem to know what it wants to be.  Is it a game console?  a apple/google tv style set top box, an android indie development kit, what?  So far it sounds like it tries to be all of those, but doesn't really succeed at any of them.

I mean, the original idea behind the Ouya was to create a console development platform where anyone could make and market a game (in contrast to the relatively difficult development environments from the main consoles).

This has been twisted, both in reviews, the news, and by Ouya itself. Now I see reviews comparing Ouya to the 360 and PS3, which is ridiculous. And the good people at Ouya are trying to get all these new apps released (emulators and various streaming services chief among them) that also fall outside the "purpose" of Ouya.

Frankly, I have no idea where the system will end up, but I'm very curious to see how development has progressed when the retail release arrives in June. I've been putting off getting an Android stick, and might get the Ouya instead if things look like they're heading in the right direction.


The problem is, well, it's not all that difficult anymore, to make a console game.  Sony and Nintendo are making heavy pushes to get more indie games on their platforms, to the point of giving some free dev kits, and lowing barriers to entry for others.  Heck, you can make a PSmobile game for the android/vita system for like, $100 fee.  MS has XBLIG, but i've heard they are dicks to work with these days.

The rise of digital distribution, and a userbase hungry for cheaper indie games was a boon to that industry.  you also have steam for the PC which is pretty easy to make and release a game for.

Even the damn vita is doing pretty well for indies, who are making a fair bit of cash form it's users, and isn't hard to dev for.  At GDC, pretty much every indie dev of note said they had plans for the platform, or for the ps4.  Nintendo gives you a copy of Unity 4 with all wii dev kits, which are only about $3k a pop.  Unlimited patches as well.
 
2013-04-05 03:51:58 PM  

RoxtarRyan: uttertosh: ///nobody ever pulled an axe on my, erm, current-self-in-leiu-of-future self. (is that the equiv of him axin a 360?)

It's a character he plays. He has a plethora of broken consoles and whatnot people give him, just for the show. It isn't the first he's "destroyed", won't be the last.

Regardless, the things he said? Spot on right.


I just watched his youtube stuff. You have right, it's just show. He's still a poopy-head lard-ass gamer.This represents the legions exactly (to us dorks who lead other lives, too) So, quit your BS and get behind the idea that 'always online' gaming is a thing of the future past. monthly female vaginal blood discharge. Full stop.
 
2013-04-05 03:53:39 PM  
*period
 
2013-04-05 03:53:50 PM  

Dragonflew: MS needs to fire this douchenozzle to save face.



See, even if there were absolutely NO plans to make it always on, even if he WAS joking (doubtful since he went 1vs1 with individual twitter users and developers)... really, unless someone takes a fall on this, they've already lost sales. Someone is going to have to be sacrificed. Someone is going to have to be the effigy to calm the masses.
 
2013-04-05 03:54:42 PM  

Antimatter: The Ouyas biggest issue is well, it doesn't seem to know what it wants to be.  Is it a game console?  a apple/google tv style set top box, an android indie development kit, what?  So far it sounds like it tries to be all of those, but doesn't really succeed at any of them.


Yeah, but for $100 (including a controller), I don't mind finding out.  Pre-ordered.
 
2013-04-05 03:56:55 PM  

uttertosh: So, quit your BS and get behind the idea that 'always online' gaming is a thing of the future past.


Please, continue. I would love to hear more about this. Especially since individual games alone that were released as "always on" were so successful (leading one company to have his CEO quit), forget an entire console with a much more widespread audience being "always online".
 
2013-04-05 04:04:39 PM  
Antimatter: [--snip-- lots of good points]

All true. Well, if nothing else the Ouya looks like it's going to be a heck of an awesome way to emulate old games on the big screen.
 
2013-04-05 04:11:44 PM  
Hmm.  Mr. Orth's tweets are protected now.

Looks like he couldn't...
(Caruso glasses)
... deal with it.

/ Insert yeah here
// Why doesn't that ever get old?
/// <-- Come in threes
 
2013-04-05 04:13:23 PM  

Egoy3k: uttertosh: LeafyGreens: Looks like Francis here isn't taking the news very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW28VSmXnCo

Nice perspective on life, that video.

/feels better about self already
//has done some horrible things in his time
///nobody ever pulled an axe on my, erm, current-self-in-leiu-of-future self. (is that the equiv of him axin a 360?)

He's doing a bit. I mean the morbid obesity isn't a bit but the behavior is.


Why have I never seen this fella before? He's great!

Though, I think my cholesterol went up about 20 points just watching that video. And the short arm thing... that's uh... he should get that checked out.
 
2013-04-05 04:18:27 PM  

Klivian: If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.


I'm in the same boat.  Been a gamer all my life, got my start on the wood paneled Atari 2600.  From everything I've been hearing so far, I will not be a console gamer after the current generation.  I'm not in the coveted "dudebro" demographic, so the producers aren't even making a token effort to woo me anymore.

As far as I'm concerned, indie gaming is where it's at right now anyway.  FTL, To the Moon, The Last Survivor, Legend of Grimrock, etc.  These are all games that are every bit as good as AAA studio releases, but for $5-$20.  That's why I wanted to cockpunch Dude Huge a few weeks ago when he was whining that to make a good game you "need" $100 million.
 
2013-04-05 04:19:40 PM  

extroverted_suicide:  To the Moon


Cried like a farking baby. Then I bought it for ten friends.
 
2013-04-05 04:22:08 PM  

R66YRobo: Question for Subby:  What the fark are they supposed to be learning?  D3 comes out, falls flat on its face on launch, causes mass biatching on the intertubes, and made Blizzard money hand over fist.  I suspect SC will be the same for EA.  All the consumers have effectively told execs is that you can safely ignore the nerd rage and treat your customers like shiat, if it's got enough hype behind it and is tied into strong enough IP (and X-box is plenty strong as a brand), you'll still get their money and that is the ONLY thing that matters.  Always on requirements, whether for a game or console, cause a bit of internet publicity online around launch then everyone goes back to giving you cash.

Until several big games fail spectacularly (and I mean 10s of millions in losses, enough to make a major companies stock take a huge hit if not sink it), this attitude will continue to be pervasive in the established industry because it is apparently what we, as consumers, have told the companies we are fine with.


I respectfully disagree.  When was the last time you just blindly purchased a game without at least doing a quick Google search of it's features (and DRM limitations)?  While not all DRM warrants skipping titles, it's already weighing in on our purchasing decisions.

Speaking for myself now, I definitely have already changed my process of purchasing a new game (or console).   Prior to Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3, I was willing to blindly purchase anything Blizzard, as I thoroughly enjoyed Diablo 1 and 2, Warcraft series, Starcraft, etc and felt they could do no wrong.  However, I have already learned not to buy a Blizzard game without waiting to see how it's received, as they've frustrated me enough with their decisions (ie, always on, real-money AH, etc).  Furthermore, the press from EA recently has taught me to certainly hesitate with their titles (I almost got pulled into Star Wars, The Old Republic, but convinced myself to stay away during the initial launch--turned out to be the right decision, and most recently with SimCity).  While I'm anecdotal, I'm certainly not unique.

While it's true that these "always-on experiments" haven't necessarily hit their bottom-dollar yet, they've certainly hit their reputations--argue if you want that "it doesn't matter," there's definitely a financial value associated to your developers' reputations:  how many people have a favorable opinion of Blizzard or the Diablo-series now?  How many people have a favorable opinion of EA, Maxis, or SimCity?  If Blizzard released a Diablo 4 within the next couple years, do you honestly think it'd have the same anticipation as Diablo 3 did?  Sure they're making money now, but every bailing customer is a herald campaigning for another developer--it's only a matter of time until the money follows.

TLDR:  as gamers we've already been taught that we have to actually research the games and their "features" (including the DRM limitations) before we decide if we can accept them or not, vs. the blindly purchasing "Super first-person shooter #4:  Return of the one-hit-kill melee attacks" just because it followed #3.

/Purchased a PS3, and watched it morph into a DLNA-media playing device while I game on my PC again
//Definitely skipping the Xbox 720 if it's always-on
///Pirates should not have a better game-play experience than legitimate owners...just sayin'
 
2013-04-05 04:25:43 PM  

Hiro Nakamura: So what I'm hearing is fark me if I have to deploy to another shiathole and want to take my games with me.


Official Microsoft Respons: Why not just tether your system to your Windows phone? It's awesome.
 
2013-04-05 04:29:32 PM  

FarkGrudge: Speaking for myself now, I definitely have already changed my process of purchasing a new game (or console).


Hosting a video game competition at a bar in a month, and it is a goddamn pain to find 31 different games that don't require a live internet connection to do even multiplayer (even split-screen is becoming scarce in new games). While I'm resorting to using more "classic" games than I intended (Sonic the Hedgehog vs mode, for example, with the top and bottom split screen), I was really hoping to be able to include more modern games. Unfortunately, it seems like the days of LAN gaming and split screen are gone in favor of monthly-access-fee based gaming.
 
2013-04-05 04:31:09 PM  

ducklord666: Hmm.  Mr. Orth's tweets are protected now.

Looks like he couldn't...
(Caruso glasses)
... deal with it.

/ Insert yeah here
// Why doesn't that ever get old?
/// <-- Come in threes


I don't know why, but it made me laugh. Nice job
 
2013-04-05 04:31:56 PM  

Mike_LowELL: NO GUYS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND

WE NEED TO PROTECT THE CORPORATIONS' PROFITS AT NO DISCERNIBLE BENEFIT TO OUR OWN INTERESTS

THAT'S WHAT CAPITALISM IS ALL ABOUT


i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-05 04:34:22 PM  

RoxtarRyan: I'm going to be running a video game tournament at a bar I work at, and have to be very careful to pick out games that offer local, same-system multiplayer. What ever happened to being able to do offline LAN multiplayer without having to go through a server hundreds or thousands of miles away?


Yeah same here, I remember playing some epic WC3 tournaments with my schoolmates on the class LAN sans internet.

I really miss that, at least give me the option!
 
2013-04-05 04:50:38 PM  

fluffy2097: /the new gamestation requires colorectal DRM
//but at least it screens for polyps and prostate cancer while it's farking you in the ass.


Yes, but unfortunately they will only give you the screening results as DLC.
 
2013-04-05 04:55:25 PM  

Cytokine Storm: Mike_LowELL: NO GUYS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND

WE NEED TO PROTECT THE CORPORATIONS' PROFITS AT NO DISCERNIBLE BENEFIT TO OUR OWN INTERESTS

THAT'S WHAT CAPITALISM IS ALL ABOUT

[i.imgur.com image 700x525]


Interesting enough, that game owes a ton of it's popularity to steam sales highlighting it.  It actually sold well beyond the teams projections, and funded their newer translation projects.  Fun as hell game, really hoping for a second one someday.

extroverted_suicide: Klivian: If the 720 and PS4 continue this way I may just skip this console generation and move to PC for everything.

I'm in the same boat.  Been a gamer all my life, got my start on the wood paneled Atari 2600.  From everything I've been hearing so far, I will not be a console gamer after the current generation.  I'm not in the coveted "dudebro" demographic, so the producers aren't even making a token effort to woo me anymore.

As far as I'm concerned, indie gaming is where it's at right now anyway.  FTL, To the Moon, The Last Survivor, Legend of Grimrock, etc.  These are all games that are every bit as good as AAA studio releases, but for $5-$20.  That's why I wanted to cockpunch Dude Huge a few weeks ago when he was whining that to make a good game you "need" $100 million.


See above in the thread.  Two of the consoles are making heavy pushes for those games and their developers, to pad out their online services and give gamers an alternative to the high budget AAA games.

It's kinda cool that there are more indie games on my to buy list these days then traditional console or handheld titles.  Taken as a whole, I bought more small games then generation, and on the vita, then traditional games as well.  I'm more then happy to pay for an indie title at releast for $10 and just wait for price drops on most mainstream games, with a few exceptions.
 
2013-04-05 05:30:02 PM  
Go on. Keep treating your customers with utter disdain.

farm3.static.flickr.com
 
2013-04-05 05:46:38 PM  
It's weird to me that so many people have jumped to the conclusion that this always connected console is actually going to happen, just because of some Kotaku rumor and sarcastic twitter comments by a guy.  Maybe I'll be eating crow, but it would be a logistical nightmare to even try and implement.  Not every country they sell the Xbox in supports Live as it is, and they sell it in several countries with spotty to no internet service which they'd be essentially sacrificing, not to mention licensing issues this would cause.  That's just the beginning of the problems they'd face, and I can't think of anything that always online would benefit them in order to take such drastic steps.
 
2013-04-05 05:52:13 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: It's weird to me that so many people have jumped to the conclusion that this always connected console is actually going to happen, just because of some Kotaku rumor and sarcastic twitter comments by a guy.  Maybe I'll be eating crow, but it would be a logistical nightmare to even try and implement.  Not every country they sell the Xbox in supports Live as it is, and they sell it in several countries with spotty to no internet service which they'd be essentially sacrificing, not to mention licensing issues this would cause.  That's just the beginning of the problems they'd face, and I can't think of anything that always online would benefit them in order to take such drastic steps.


Still, Microsoft just released a statement apologizing for the tweets, but ended with "however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter" instead of putting the issue down altogether by denying that it would be always-online.
 
2013-04-05 06:11:19 PM  

Erix: Lumbar Puncture: It's weird to me that so many people have jumped to the conclusion that this always connected console is actually going to happen, just because of some Kotaku rumor and sarcastic twitter comments by a guy.  Maybe I'll be eating crow, but it would be a logistical nightmare to even try and implement.  Not every country they sell the Xbox in supports Live as it is, and they sell it in several countries with spotty to no internet service which they'd be essentially sacrificing, not to mention licensing issues this would cause.  That's just the beginning of the problems they'd face, and I can't think of anything that always online would benefit them in order to take such drastic steps.

Still, Microsoft just released a statement apologizing for the tweets, but ended with "however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter" instead of putting the issue down altogether by denying that it would be always-online.


Well yeah, why would they say anything about their future service plans when they haven't even announced the name of the system yet?  They obviously have a plan with how they are handling the announcement of their new system and aren't going to release the details of that just because game websites are spreading rumors for hits.  Rumors ran for nearly a year about the PS4 blocking used games, Sony didn't comment on those at that time either.

Just seems weird there's so much anger about a console without an official name or even a known release date, just because there's speculation about it being 'always online' even though that would be market suicide.
 
2013-04-05 06:36:47 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Just seems weird there's so much anger about a console without an official name or even a known release date, just because there's speculation about it being 'always online' even though that would be market suicide.


That just shows how interested people are in the next generation Xbox.
 
2013-04-05 06:44:41 PM  

Dragonflew: extroverted_suicide:  To the Moon

Cried like a farking baby. Then I bought it for ten friends.


The trailer looks rather interesting. It looks like a reworked ChronoTrigger.
 
2013-04-05 07:58:18 PM  
Don't call it a comeback, PC gaming's been here for years.
 
2013-04-05 09:10:56 PM  

broktune: That's true, but don't you feel that these problems are a bit overblown?  Ok, I couldn't play Diablo 3 for a couple of days...that's it.  Same with Simcity.  Christ, I couldn't play a game for a couple of days, it will be ok.  Also, when it comes to always connected, everyone here obviously has the internet.  Ok, so most are complaining in favor of those who DON'T have the internet?  I get the military posts and that stinks if everything is true about this but for the average person, don't we all have the farking internet at this point?  As far as it going down, the absolute worst example in gaming history seems to be Simcity.  People couldn't play that game for a week.  That's it.  And that's the worst possible outcome, you wouldn't be able to play a video game for a week.  And that's unlikely to happen to MS' servers.  No one died, no ones 401k got stolen, you couldn't play a game for a week.  As far as the guy saying "deal with it", who cares?  Do we all have paper thin skin at this point?  OOOOO, he said deal with it, how unprofessional.

No matter how hard I try, I just CAN'T get worked up over video games.  I just like reading these threads and seeing the professional victims come out of the woodwork.


Well... SimCity is in a league of its own here.  It wasnt a few days... it didnt work for weeks, and it STILL doesnt have functionality restored.  You can make cities, but the system isnt working like its supposed to with regions at all.
 
2013-04-05 09:16:03 PM  

germ78: Dragonflew: extroverted_suicide:  To the Moon

Cried like a farking baby. Then I bought it for ten friends.

The trailer looks rather interesting. It looks like a reworked ChronoTrigger.


From what I understand, it's Chrono Trigger meets the first ten minutes of Up.
 
2013-04-05 09:26:44 PM  

soporific: germ78: Dragonflew: extroverted_suicide:  To the Moon

Cried like a farking baby. Then I bought it for ten friends.

The trailer looks rather interesting. It looks like a reworked ChronoTrigger.

From what I understand, it's Chrono Trigger meets the first ten minutes of Up.


There is one thread on the Steam forum that was started as a greeting from the developer. It has passed 500 replies now, 99.9% of them are people who are telling the dev that To the Moon was one of the most moving experiences they have ever had in a video game, and most people admitted to crying at least once, both out of sadness and happiness. I have never been that affected by a video game before, and likely never will be again.  It's only $10.  It goes on sale often for $3-4 but it is worth every penny even at the full price.
 
2013-04-05 11:51:57 PM  
http://i.minus.com/iZ4Xc7uzxvJUA.gif

One of those long animated GIFs that is worth the click.
 
2013-04-06 02:48:15 AM  
I am gonna go out on a limb here and say MS is trolling.  They have not directly confirmed nor denied these rumors.  When the system gets a full showing at E3, I'll bet they spotlight that it, in fact, does not need an always on connection.

In the meantime, principles of customer service are in play.  Happy customer tells one person, pissed off customer tells 10.  They currently have a serious buzz going on for their product.  When they ride in and announce these things were never true,  they look like saviors.

"There is no such thing as bad publicity."
 
2013-04-06 02:57:58 AM  
I have such a connection at home but I have a different angle -

As a military member, Navy specifically, we often bring a few consoles with us on deployment.  I'm an officer, and we had a 360 and PS3 in our stateroom on the carrier.

We would never be allowed to connect a game console to the ship's internet connection, nor does the ship have the bandwidth allocated to regular internet to actually make the network connection functional in even the most rudimentary sense for a modern game console.

As far as I know from marine buddies, they didn't have their consoles connected online in Afghanistan or Iraq either.

So next gen farks the entire deployed military from being able to play.  Thanks.
 
2013-04-06 05:53:26 AM  

rpm: randomjsa: I've always said that no product could ever have the failure rate of the 360 and remain on the market... I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a high end video card had that kind of failure rate.

Or even better, a hard drive.

Nothing? Western Digital Green had huge failure rates because of a design flaw.


How about capacitors?  That one was rather big.  I thought the WDG issue was because it's WD and they're shiat?  It's a shame they're the only game in town now for HDD's.
 
rpm
2013-04-06 09:18:30 AM  

Vaneshi: How about capacitors?  That one was rather big.  I thought the WDG issue was because it's WD and they're shiat?  It's a shame they're the only game in town now for HDD's.


The capacitors weren't something consumer visible, and made everything shiat.

The WDG parked so often that the number of duty cycles skyrocketed and caused premature failure.
 
2013-04-06 11:17:10 AM  

LeafyGreens: Looks like Francis here isn't taking the news very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW28VSmXnCo


blue_2501: http://i.minus.com/iZ4Xc7uzxvJUA.gif

One of those long animated GIFs that is worth the click.


Just chiming in to say I found both of these pretty hilarious.
 
2013-04-06 12:09:00 PM  

duffman13: I have such a connection at home but I have a different angle -

As a military member, Navy specifically, we often bring a few consoles with us on deployment.  I'm an officer, and we had a 360 and PS3 in our stateroom on the carrier.

We would never be allowed to connect a game console to the ship's internet connection, nor does the ship have the bandwidth allocated to regular internet to actually make the network connection functional in even the most rudimentary sense for a modern game console.

As far as I know from marine buddies, they didn't have their consoles connected online in Afghanistan or Iraq either.

So next gen farks the entire deployed military from being able to play.  Thanks.


Sounds like a good enough reason to no longer go to war then, huh?

"Sorry guys! We don't wanna fight y'all cuz we won't be able to enjoy our time off while we're over there."
 
2013-04-06 08:22:15 PM  

Mordis: "There is no such thing as bad publicity."


Really? Why don't you ask Gary Glitter about that one?
 
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