If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NBC News)   This may come as a shock to some of you, but the Church of Scientology ran a sham drug treatment center to recruit members and scam people out of money   (rockcenter.nbcnews.com) divider line 116
    More: Obvious, Church of Scientology, Narconon, Lucas Catton, Rock Center, sales techniques  
•       •       •

8953 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Apr 2013 at 12:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



116 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-04-05 02:29:30 AM  

holybull99: religion = scam

always has been, always will be


The Protestant Reformation was started precisely because many Christians thought the Catholic Church was a scam.  Likewise, there are splinter religions that practice Dianetics outside the oversight of the Church, which they condemn as corrupt and heretical.  Methinks that Hubbard's teaching will last a long time.
 
2013-04-05 02:47:38 AM  

Lusiphur: RoboZombie: And yes, it  is worse than other religions so don't even start.(not that I'm a fan of any religion....just calling a cot a cult)

Yes, it's a cult. Yes, they do terrible things. But in the last decade, the Catholic church has covered up and saved how many child molesters from having to face justice? Islam has left how many dead in Iraq, and Iran, and Egypt, and the rest of the Middle East and the world? Hard-line Judaism in Israel has left how many Palestinians dead?

Scientology is a terrible crime against humanity, but it is no worse than any of the other major religions. It SEEMS worse, because it's young enough that most members are still in the "hard-line, born-again, recent convert extremist" phase, but as time goes by, it will mellow out like other religions. We're already seeing it, with sects and break-away faiths that are far less extreme in their doctrines forming all around the country. As it grows and ages, it will lose the ability to keep such rigid control over its members, and it will cease trying. In the meantime, while it has a high body-count, it's not even comparable to the three big faiths. Not even close, no matter how many slaves they have on their cruise ship armada, or how many people's lives they try to destroy for ratting on them or leaving the church.

/ALL religion sucks


Yes, yes it is. And this story is the perfect example of how the they are different.

You can rag on organized religion for a million different reasons, however an honest person must also admit that there are times when organized religion actually succeeds in meeting its mission.

One of these ways is through the famous series of 12-step programs, which ask addicts to give up their life to a higher power. These programs do not work for everybody, however they clearly do work for many people.  There are 3 major differences between 12-step programs like AA and Narcanon:

1. Documented success rates
2. Licensed and trained staff
3. Free of charge

These Narcanon sites make-up success rates to get people in the door. They do not hire trained staff. They charge $30,000 per patient.  They offer no results.

There is a huge difference between offering a rehabilitation service for the purpose of helping people vs. pffering a rehabilitation service for the purpose of making money.
 
2013-04-05 03:04:48 AM  

Lusiphur: RoboZombie: And yes, it  is worse than other religions so don't even start.(not that I'm a fan of any religion....just calling a cot a cult)

Yes, it's a cult. Yes, they do terrible things. But in the last decade, the Catholic church has covered up and saved how many child molesters from having to face justice? Islam has left how many dead in Iraq, and Iran, and Egypt, and the rest of the Middle East and the world? Hard-line Judaism in Israel has left how many Palestinians dead?

Scientology is a terrible crime against humanity, but it is no worse than any of the other major religions. It SEEMS worse, because it's young enough that most members are still in the "hard-line, born-again, recent convert extremist" phase, but as time goes by, it will mellow out like other religions. We're already seeing it, with sects and break-away faiths that are far less extreme in their doctrines forming all around the country. As it grows and ages, it will lose the ability to keep such rigid control over its members, and it will cease trying. In the meantime, while it has a high body-count, it's not even comparable to the three big faiths. Not even close, no matter how many slaves they have on their cruise ship armada, or how many people's lives they try to destroy for ratting on them or leaving the church.

/ALL religion sucks


Repent your sins and accept The Lord into your heart
 
2013-04-05 03:08:19 AM  
Before I read Going Clear, I wrote Scientology off as a scam, but now I'm convinced it is an insane cult. David Miscivage is deeply unhinged. He turns on people for the smallest of things and is physically violent (hitting and choking people out of the blue) and a huge fame whore. The whole religion is a reflection of his and L Ron's mental illness. It's a deeply sick organization.
 
2013-04-05 03:24:11 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Before I read Going Clear, I wrote Scientology off as a scam, but now I'm convinced it is an insane cult. David Miscivage is deeply unhinged. He turns on people for the smallest of things and is physically violent (hitting and choking people out of the blue) and a huge fame whore. The whole religion is a reflection of his and L Ron's mental illness. It's a deeply sick organization.


He also uses his position to convince women in Co$ that they should have sex with him to create the next L Ron.  No doubt, these women were made vulnerable to such nonsense by the very program they are in.  No official citation.  This was from my second (ex)wife, who was one of his victims (she's still all kinds of farked up, despite having escaped years before we met).
 
2013-04-05 03:28:10 AM  

dave2198: Lusiphur: RoboZombie: And yes, it  is worse than other religions so don't even start.(not that I'm a fan of any religion....just calling a cot a cult)

Yes, it's a cult. Yes, they do terrible things. But in the last decade, the Catholic church has covered up and saved how many child molesters from having to face justice? Islam has left how many dead in Iraq, and Iran, and Egypt, and the rest of the Middle East and the world? Hard-line Judaism in Israel has left how many Palestinians dead?

Scientology is a terrible crime against humanity, but it is no worse than any of the other major religions. It SEEMS worse, because it's young enough that most members are still in the "hard-line, born-again, recent convert extremist" phase, but as time goes by, it will mellow out like other religions. We're already seeing it, with sects and break-away faiths that are far less extreme in their doctrines forming all around the country. As it grows and ages, it will lose the ability to keep such rigid control over its members, and it will cease trying. In the meantime, while it has a high body-count, it's not even comparable to the three big faiths. Not even close, no matter how many slaves they have on their cruise ship armada, or how many people's lives they try to destroy for ratting on them or leaving the church.

/ALL religion sucks

Yes, yes it is. And this story is the perfect example of how the they are different.

You can rag on organized religion for a million different reasons, however an honest person must also admit that there are times when organized religion actually succeeds in meeting its mission.

One of these ways is through the famous series of 12-step programs, which ask addicts to give up their life to a higher power. These programs do not work for everybody, however they clearly do work for many people.  There are 3 major differences between 12-step programs like AA and Narcanon:

1. Documented success rates
2. Licensed and trained staff
3. Free of charge

The ...


NarcOnon. The cult spells their imaginary drug treatment front NarcOnon with an O in order to confuse people.
 
2013-04-05 03:43:46 AM  
I hereby announce the founding of the Church of HAMZ. Please send money and I'll tell you what "HAMZ" really means. It will change your life, especially if you're addicted to drugs. Please send money.
 
2013-04-05 03:44:37 AM  

Kyndig: Whoever cooked that dried out, overcooked piece of crap in the photo in the article needs shot - it's a crime against perfectly good meat...


The funny part about posting in the wrong place is that it's often the most apropos comment in the thread.
 
2013-04-05 03:51:46 AM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I hereby announce the founding of the Church of HAMZ. Please send money and I'll tell you what "HAMZ" really means. It will change your life, especially if you're addicted to drugs. Please send money.


Im not addicted to drugs but i would like a couple cases of Hamms. tyvm .Its the beer refreshing
 
2013-04-05 03:56:31 AM  

Lusiphur: RoboZombie: And yes, it  is worse than other religions so don't even start.(not that I'm a fan of any religion....just calling a cot a cult)

Yes, it's a cult. Yes, they do terrible things. But in the last decade, the Catholic church has covered up and saved how many child molesters from having to face justice? Islam has left how many dead in Iraq, and Iran, and Egypt, and the rest of the Middle East and the world? Hard-line Judaism in Israel has left how many Palestinians dead?

Scientology is a terrible crime against humanity, but it is no worse than any of the other major religions. It SEEMS worse, because it's young enough that most members are still in the "hard-line, born-again, recent convert extremist" phase, but as time goes by, it will mellow out like other religions. We're already seeing it, with sects and break-away faiths that are far less extreme in their doctrines forming all around the country. As it grows and ages, it will lose the ability to keep such rigid control over its members, and it will cease trying. In the meantime, while it has a high body-count, it's not even comparable to the three big faiths. Not even close, no matter how many slaves they have on their cruise ship armada, or how many people's lives they try to destroy for ratting on them or leaving the church.

/ALL religion sucks


I agree with you for the most part, but you're missing a few details.  Hard line Islam considers people who convert out of being Muslim apostates who should be killed, and Scientology seems to have drawn some inspiration from that.  Few other "religions" that I'm aware of have such a strong pattern of harassing former members with physical and litigious intimidation.  I find it interesting how they appear to be in abject terror of the effects of a former member shedding light on the inner workings of their organization.  I suppose it's also possible that they've just been brainwashed to the point that they believe they're doing "God's work" in attacking people they think will do harm to their faith as a whole.  On the other hand, I also have a hard time believing these two guys' new found altruism, considering one of them has written a book about it.  Unless I can see a contract stating that all profits go to a legit charity, then he's just trying to cash in for himself in a different way.

/both sides are bad, so vote Republican
//not really, just don't trust anybody who claims to know the "truth"
///third slashy rants for freedom
 
2013-04-05 04:10:38 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Before I read Going Clear, I wrote Scientology off as a scam, but now I'm convinced it is an insane cult.


I think it's an intelligence gathering operation disguised as an insane cult.
 
2013-04-05 04:13:27 AM  

dave2198: Lusiphur: RoboZombie: And yes, it  is worse than other religions so don't even start.(not that I'm a fan of any religion....just calling a cot a cult)

Yes, it's a cult. Yes, they do terrible things. But in the last decade, the Catholic church has covered up and saved how many child molesters from having to face justice? Islam has left how many dead in Iraq, and Iran, and Egypt, and the rest of the Middle East and the world? Hard-line Judaism in Israel has left how many Palestinians dead?

Scientology is a terrible crime against humanity, but it is no worse than any of the other major religions. It SEEMS worse, because it's young enough that most members are still in the "hard-line, born-again, recent convert extremist" phase, but as time goes by, it will mellow out like other religions. We're already seeing it, with sects and break-away faiths that are far less extreme in their doctrines forming all around the country. As it grows and ages, it will lose the ability to keep such rigid control over its members, and it will cease trying. In the meantime, while it has a high body-count, it's not even comparable to the three big faiths. Not even close, no matter how many slaves they have on their cruise ship armada, or how many people's lives they try to destroy for ratting on them or leaving the church.

/ALL religion sucks

Yes, yes it is. And this story is the perfect example of how the they are different.

You can rag on organized religion for a million different reasons, however an honest person must also admit that there are times when organized religion actually succeeds in meeting its mission.

One of these ways is through the famous series of 12-step programs, which ask addicts to give up their life to a higher power. These programs do not work for everybody, however they clearly do work for many people.  There are 3 major differences between 12-step programs like AA and Narcanon:

1. Documented success rates
2. Licensed and trained staff
3. Free of charge

The ...


I seem to remember that one of the huge criticisms levied towards Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous was that they don't demonstrate any efficacy or long-term recovery benefits over regular addiction treatment programs, and they are commonly used to promote a religious message and convert others to a different religion - usually whatever denomination of church that is sponsoring the group.

In fact, in three separate federal appellate court rulings, the US legal system has upheld that sentencing someone to mandatory NA and AA meetings violates the Establishment clause of the First Amendment.

While yes, Scientology and NarcOnon are bullshiat through and through, let's not pretend that NA and AA are innocent in the BS game either, especially when neither of them have been proven more effective than traditional treatment regimes which don't require someone to prostrate before a divine being and declare their powerlessness.
 
2013-04-05 04:30:32 AM  
radgeek.com
 
2013-04-05 04:40:04 AM  
May be a shock to most people but a lot of rehab centers are a scam they just want you to trade one drug dealer for them, get off heroin get on methadone or suboxone, coke adderall concerta, or just put people on ativan or xanax, and keep you comming back sometimes trading drugs, its a money farm.  Seen one too many medicaid, tricare, medicare for the poor, rich have many other options like scientology and other centers results are usually the same replace one addiction for another at a premium
 
2013-04-05 05:05:14 AM  

Kyndig: erm...for some reason both my posts went in the wrong thread...so...I am a moron, and fark's links are farked...


Yeeeeees, its the link that's Farked.
 
2013-04-05 05:27:24 AM  

WillofJ2: May be a shock to most people but a lot of rehab centers are a scam they just want you to trade one drug dealer for them, get off heroin get on methadone or suboxone, coke adderall concerta, or just put people on ativan or xanax, and keep you comming back sometimes trading drugs, its a money farm.  Seen one too many medicaid, tricare, medicare for the poor, rich have many other options like scientology and other centers results are usually the same replace one addiction for another at a premium


people with addictive personality types need replacements for what they've left behind. after i got past being a booze hound i wound up with a serious Coca-Cola habit. but i'm off alcohol. the end goal should be clean. it's sad. all too often people on the bottom rung get kicked in the teeth the hardest. it's been that way far too long.
 
2013-04-05 05:34:03 AM  
So, the former director of the branch spent 'thousands' buying pieces of paper for him and his staff so that they could look like counsellers? It seems the public weren't the only ones getting shafted.
 
xcv
2013-04-05 05:53:48 AM  

cedarpark: So, the former director of the branch spent 'thousands' buying pieces of paper for him and his staff so that they could look like counsellers? It seems the public weren't the only ones getting shafted.


He was aware that he was buying them from another Scientology-run outfit. Buying your way up until you're penniless is the standard MO for advancing in any Scientology organization.
 
2013-04-05 06:49:50 AM  

KrispyKritter: WillofJ2: May be a shock to most people but a lot of rehab centers are a scam they just want you to trade one drug dealer for them, get off heroin get on methadone or suboxone, coke adderall concerta, or just put people on ativan or xanax, and keep you comming back sometimes trading drugs, its a money farm.  Seen one too many medicaid, tricare, medicare for the poor, rich have many other options like scientology and other centers results are usually the same replace one addiction for another at a premium

people with addictive personality types need replacements for what they've left behind. after i got past being a booze hound i wound up with a serious Coca-Cola habit. but i'm off alcohol. the end goal should be clean. it's sad. all too often people on the bottom rung get kicked in the teeth the hardest. it's been that way far too long.


Yeah, Suboxone though is getting people bad now people coming through the clinics and "I need something" all the time and rarely are they taught proper coping mechanisms, for a while all the EtOH people were on benzos with no plans for transition and relapsed all the time

How bad does a serious coca cola habit get? my ex drank about 4 a day and I thought she was addicted
 
2013-04-05 06:57:13 AM  
official-looking certificates he received he received as a "Certified Alcohol and Drug Counselor." He said he purchased them for himself and his staff ... from an organization called the Pita Group, Inc.

Seems legit.
 
2013-04-05 07:27:17 AM  
The guy who played Half-Sack on "Sons of Anarchy" was going through Narconon when he snapped and murdered his landlord.

He used to be all of their website as a celebrity success story. He was un-personed before his body was cold.
 
2013-04-05 08:22:53 AM  
then again
famous for thier infiltration and investigation of the FBI

http://www.paperlessarchives.com/hubbard.html">http://www.paperlessa rchives.com/hubbard.html

wiki  mentions infiltration of IRS

just sayin
 
2013-04-05 08:35:42 AM  
Didn't read article or thread...but ARCANON?
 
2013-04-05 08:47:47 AM  

BillyRayBob: I used to fill the vending machines at the XXXXX Scientology branch.  The vending machines were in the back room.  The staff would come in there and practice 'accidentally' bumping into people as an excuse to start up a conversation with the victim to suck them into coming by for a visit and get their bio feedback or some shiat.  It reminded me of a farking pickpocket school!  I guess it was kind of the same thing.


At one time, one of their sock-puppet organizations, Bridge Publications, would set up tables at major sci-fi conventions, pushing Hubbard's crap novels.  One year at DragonCon in Atlanta, there was a jazz performance by David Carradine and Chick Corea, both into $cientology.   In the anteroom adjacent to the performance, they had they $ci people "work" the crowd to try to get them into the show.  One guy came up to me and said in the damn weirdest tone of voice something to the effect of "Carradine and jazz legend Chick Corea are performing in that room".   It really was like he was trying to use the "Voice" from Dune- as if he had just come from one of their stupid courses on how to control people's minds.

It didn't work.
 
2013-04-05 08:57:10 AM  

dave2198: These programs do not work for everybody, however they clearly do work for many people.  There are 3 major differences between 12-step programs like AA and Narcanon:

1. Documented success rates
2. Licensed and trained staff
3. Free of charge


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

*deep breath*

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


1.  The numbers are closer to 5 to 12 percent for AA where they actually let anybody study it.
2.  Any goof off can start his or her own AA group.
3.  True, for the people who go down the street with the ex-junkies (if you want to discount the passing off the hat) smoking their lungs out along with the grifters looking to thirteenth step the new pigeons.  Betty Ford and Hazelton, however, are definitely not free.


Ah well, half out of three ain't that bad, now is.
 
2013-04-05 09:08:35 AM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I hereby announce the founding of the Church of HAMZ. Please send money and I'll tell you what "HAMZ" really means. It will change your life, especially if you're addicted to drugs. Please send money.


Send the money to me instead.  I have divined the secret.
 
2013-04-05 09:33:04 AM  

randomjsa: Scientology is nothing more than being obvious about the true purpose of a church... which is to bilk people out of money


F*ck, dude, that's the second time you've said something that I agree with. Maybe there is something wrong with me???

/hold me?
//I'm so scared...
 
2013-04-05 09:38:15 AM  

whosits_112: randomjsa: Scientology is nothing more than being obvious about the true purpose of a church... which is to bilk people out of money

F*ck, dude, that's the second time you've said something that I agree with. Maybe there is something wrong with me???

/hold me?
//I'm so scared...


I think he just spoke out of alt.
 
2013-04-05 09:49:05 AM  

MFAWG: And this makes them different from other faith based recovery programs how, exactly?


Most faith based programs are meant for people who already share that (ro a similar) faith, and are cheaper.
Plus they tend to be actually trying to help people, just not always in the right way
 
2013-04-05 09:51:24 AM  

Mantour: [www.cs.cmu.edu image 395x356]


My god that guy with Cruise must only be 4ft tall.
 
2013-04-05 09:53:36 AM  
"five hours a day in a sauna for 30 straight days"

Druggie?
You're going to spend a month in The Box.
 
2013-04-05 09:59:53 AM  
30,000 dollars for 6 months treatment?  If you an afford that, you don't have a problem yet.
 
2013-04-05 10:02:59 AM  
Pfft, I follow a better Prophet....

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-04-05 10:09:47 AM  
I think this place is on lake eufala in Oklahoma  and used to be a large resort called fountain head.

It's got ayn rand and Scientology all together.

/stayed there when I was a kid if same place I'm thinking of (preposition)
//one of oklahomas largest, but muddiest lakes
///go to grand lake o' the cherokee's instead, we require drugs to be used and religion is something you use for free breakfast on Sunday morning
 
2013-04-05 10:17:41 AM  
I landed up in treatment with a dude who got sucked into Narconon without knowing what it was. They treated his withdrawal from heroin and benzos with vitamins. When he inevitably had a seizure, they attempted treat that with yet more vitamins. They refused to take him to the local emergency room until he threatened a lawsuit.

/csb
 
2013-04-05 10:24:28 AM  

OgreMagi: Mad_Radhu: Before I read Going Clear, I wrote Scientology off as a scam, but now I'm convinced it is an insane cult. David Miscivage is deeply unhinged. He turns on people for the smallest of things and is physically violent (hitting and choking people out of the blue) and a huge fame whore. The whole religion is a reflection of his and L Ron's mental illness. It's a deeply sick organization.

He also uses his position to convince women in Co$ that they should have sex with him to create the next L Ron.  No doubt, these women were made vulnerable to such nonsense by the very program they are in.  No official citation.  This was from my second (ex)wife, who was one of his victims (she's still all kinds of farked up, despite having escaped years before we met).


There is a book by Miscavige's niece, Jenna, I think it is Beyond Belief. It's on Amazon. If you can scare off your own family, then that in itself proves that there is something deeply disturbing about you. "Blown for Good" is also good, as well as "The Church of Fear". The Panorama BBC episode which has the reporter screaming at the PR guy... Tommy Davis, I think?... is just insane. His book (Church of Fear) is a good companion to that episode.

/somehow fell into reading about how insane Scientology is
 
2013-04-05 10:30:38 AM  

dave2198: Lusiphur: RoboZombie: And yes, it  is worse than other religions so don't even start.(not that I'm a fan of any religion....just calling a cot a cult)

Yes, it's a cult. Yes, they do terrible things. But in the last decade, the Catholic church has covered up and saved how many child molesters from having to face justice? Islam has left how many dead in Iraq, and Iran, and Egypt, and the rest of the Middle East and the world? Hard-line Judaism in Israel has left how many Palestinians dead?

Scientology is a terrible crime against humanity, but it is no worse than any of the other major religions. It SEEMS worse, because it's young enough that most members are still in the "hard-line, born-again, recent convert extremist" phase, but as time goes by, it will mellow out like other religions. We're already seeing it, with sects and break-away faiths that are far less extreme in their doctrines forming all around the country. As it grows and ages, it will lose the ability to keep such rigid control over its members, and it will cease trying. In the meantime, while it has a high body-count, it's not even comparable to the three big faiths. Not even close, no matter how many slaves they have on their cruise ship armada, or how many people's lives they try to destroy for ratting on them or leaving the church.

/ALL religion sucks

Yes, yes it is. And this story is the perfect example of how the they are different.

You can rag on organized religion for a million different reasons, however an honest person must also admit that there are times when organized religion actually succeeds in meeting its mission.

One of these ways is through the famous series of 12-step programs, which ask addicts to give up their life to a higher power. These programs do not work for everybody, however they clearly do work for many people.  There are 3 major differences between 12-step programs like AA and Narcanon:

1. Documented success rates
2. Licensed and trained staff
3. Free of charge

These Narcanon sites make-up success rates to get people in the door. They do not hire trained staff. They charge $30,000 per patient.  They offer no results.

There is a huge difference between offering a rehabilitation service for the purpose of helping people vs. pffering a rehabilitation service for the purpose of making money.


The success rate for most 12-step programs is pathetic. Something join the order of 25%. Trust me, I've had personal reasons to look into them very thoroughly. One of the main reasons for the low success rate is the divorcing of achievement/failure from personal agency.

12 step programs, when taken away from conventional therapy and counseling are probably less successful than narcanon, and are incredibly dangerous for recovering addicts. Again, trust me. I have some pretty solid firsthand experience, and a mountain of research.

So what were you saying?
 
2013-04-05 10:49:47 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Before I read Going Clear, I wrote Scientology off as a scam, but now I'm convinced it is an insane cult. David Miscivage is deeply unhinged. He turns on people for the smallest of things and is physically violent (hitting and choking people out of the blue) and a huge fame whore. The whole religion is a reflection of his and L Ron's mental illness. It's a deeply sick organization.


In the middle of that book now. Scary shiat!
 
2013-04-05 10:58:51 AM  

Lusiphur: The success rate for most 12-step programs is pathetic. Something join the order of 25%. Trust me, I've had personal reasons to look into them very thoroughly. One of the main reasons for the low success rate is the divorcing of achievement/failure from personal agency.

12 step programs, when taken away from conventional therapy and counseling are probably less successful than narcanon, and are incredibly dangerous for recovering addicts. Again, trust me. I have some pretty solid firsthand experience, and a mountain of research.

So what were you saying?



The success rate is probably significantly lower than 25%. I claim from my own, personal, anecdotal evidence that at least 10 people disappear within a month or two for every person that sticks around.

I'll also say that your "mountain of research" is useless. I say this because you're not getting information from the people in the program who I've seen be successful, because they have no interest in trying to prove something to a skeptic, nor to help further the research endeavors of non-addicts.  The people who contribute to that research are people who failed to stop using through a 12-step program, and medical/therapy groups that have a financial incentive to "prove" that 12-step programs fail.

You know what else is incredibly dangerous to addicts? Active addiction. There are tons and tons of people who come into the program determined to prove that it doesn't work. You know what happens to those people? They prove their preconceived notion to be correct 100% of the time. 12-step programs don't claim to fix people. They provide a set of tools that people who want to get better can apply to their own lives...if they are willing.

So what were YOU saying?
 
2013-04-05 11:22:13 AM  
The headline has the term "ran", which indicates past tense, like the program no longer exists.  It should be "runs", which indicates that said program still exists, which it does.
 
2013-04-05 11:23:16 AM  
Read this about about 33-34 years ago....still gets right to business today:

i466.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-05 12:25:51 PM  

Lusiphur: Something join the order of 25%.


Is that the sacred order of 25% or the holy order of 25%?
 
2013-04-05 12:39:52 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Before I read Going Clear, I wrote Scientology off as a scam, but now I'm convinced it is an insane cult. David Miscivage is deeply unhinged. He turns on people for the smallest of things and is physically violent (hitting and choking people out of the blue) and a huge fame whore. The whole religion is a reflection of his and L Ron's mental illness. It's a deeply sick organization.


Now it is time for Beyond Belief. Good book by Jenna Miscavige. Davids neice.
 
2013-04-05 12:45:03 PM  

Pangea: Lusiphur: The success rate for most 12-step programs is pathetic. Something join the order of 25%. Trust me, I've had personal reasons to look into them very thoroughly. One of the main reasons for the low success rate is the divorcing of achievement/failure from personal agency.

12 step programs, when taken away from conventional therapy and counseling are probably less successful than narcanon, and are incredibly dangerous for recovering addicts. Again, trust me. I have some pretty solid firsthand experience, and a mountain of research.

So what were you saying?


The success rate is probably significantly lower than 25%. I claim from my own, personal, anecdotal evidence that at least 10 people disappear within a month or two for every person that sticks around.

I'll also say that your "mountain of research" is useless. I say this because you're not getting information from the people in the program who I've seen be successful, because they have no interest in trying to prove something to a skeptic, nor to help further the research endeavors of non-addicts.  The people who contribute to that research are people who failed to stop using through a 12-step program, and medical/therapy groups that have a financial incentive to "prove" that 12-step programs fail.

You know what else is incredibly dangerous to addicts? Active addiction. There are tons and tons of people who come into the program determined to prove that it doesn't work. You know what happens to those people? They prove their preconceived notion to be correct 100% of the time. 12-step programs don't claim to fix people. They provide a set of tools that people who want to get better can apply to their own lives...if they are willing.

So what were YOU saying?


That "i don't like what the numbers say, so I'm going to ignore them" is stupid, and you are an idiot who is actively hurting addicts. Which makes you a horrible person. Congratulations on being no better than the scientologists.
 
2013-04-05 12:47:01 PM  
Predatory Scientologists?  Noooo wayyyy.
 
2013-04-05 12:51:33 PM  
www.gatorbytes.net
 
2013-04-05 01:08:27 PM  

JolobinSmokin: I think this place is on lake eufala in Oklahoma  and used to be a large resort called fountain head.

It's got ayn rand and Scientology all together.

/stayed there when I was a kid if same place I'm thinking of (preposition)
//one of oklahomas largest, but muddiest lakes
///go to grand lake o' the cherokee's instead, we require drugs to be used and religion is something you use for free breakfast on Sunday morning


Seriously?  That's sad.  Stayed at Fountain Head when I was a teenager - it was a nice place.
 
2013-04-05 01:17:58 PM  

Anastacya: OgreMagi: Mad_Radhu: Before I read Going Clear, I wrote Scientology off as a scam, but now I'm convinced it is an insane cult. David Miscivage is deeply unhinged. He turns on people for the smallest of things and is physically violent (hitting and choking people out of the blue) and a huge fame whore. The whole religion is a reflection of his and L Ron's mental illness. It's a deeply sick organization.

He also uses his position to convince women in Co$ that they should have sex with him to create the next L Ron.  No doubt, these women were made vulnerable to such nonsense by the very program they are in.  No official citation.  This was from my second (ex)wife, who was one of his victims (she's still all kinds of farked up, despite having escaped years before we met).

There is a book by Miscavige's niece, Jenna, I think it is Beyond Belief. It's on Amazon. If you can scare off your own family, then that in itself proves that there is something deeply disturbing about you. "Blown for Good" is also good, as well as "The Church of Fear". The Panorama BBC episode which has the reporter screaming at the PR guy... Tommy Davis, I think?... is just insane. His book (Church of Fear) is a good companion to that episode.

/somehow fell into reading about how insane Scientology is


I have read it. Well written and truly frightening in parts. Right now I am on The Reluctant Messiah. Next up is Going Clear.

Tommy's wife was Katie Holmes handler. I wonder if that had anything to do with their disappearance.

The insanity in that place is rampant.
 
2013-04-05 01:23:06 PM  
Came for You_Don't_Say!.jpeg.  Leaving dissatisfied.

/What happened to you farkers?  You used to be cool.
 
2013-04-05 01:34:34 PM  

saturn badger: Anastacya: OgreMagi: Mad_Radhu: Before I read Going Clear, I wrote Scientology off as a scam, but now I'm convinced it is an insane cult. David Miscivage is deeply unhinged. He turns on people for the smallest of things and is physically violent (hitting and choking people out of the blue) and a huge fame whore. The whole religion is a reflection of his and L Ron's mental illness. It's a deeply sick organization.

He also uses his position to convince women in Co$ that they should have sex with him to create the next L Ron.  No doubt, these women were made vulnerable to such nonsense by the very program they are in.  No official citation.  This was from my second (ex)wife, who was one of his victims (she's still all kinds of farked up, despite having escaped years before we met).

There is a book by Miscavige's niece, Jenna, I think it is Beyond Belief. It's on Amazon. If you can scare off your own family, then that in itself proves that there is something deeply disturbing about you. "Blown for Good" is also good, as well as "The Church of Fear". The Panorama BBC episode which has the reporter screaming at the PR guy... Tommy Davis, I think?... is just insane. His book (Church of Fear) is a good companion to that episode.

/somehow fell into reading about how insane Scientology is

I have read it. Well written and truly frightening in parts. Right now I am on The Reluctant Messiah. Next up is Going Clear.

Tommy's wife was Katie Holmes handler. I wonder if that had anything to do with their disappearance.

The insanity in that place is rampant.


/css story

My review for Beyond Belief is actually the reason I am in the Top Reviewers on Amazon. I even have a "fan" who follows my reviews. Probably some pervert, but hey, for a random chick from Ohio, I think it is all pretty spiffy.

If you want a movie that is painfully... eccentric, then "The Master" is good. I do heartily recommend the Panorama documentary, though. It is really fun and scary at the same time.

Another book: My Billion Year Contract. It is in a different vein than Beyond Belief, but still really, really scary.
 
Displayed 50 of 116 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report