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(NBC News)   CDC to prepare bird flu vaccine, Just. In. Case   (vitals.nbcnews.com) divider line 88
    More: Scary, genetic sequence, chicken eggs, Roche Holding AG, antiviral drugs, vaccines, Artificial gene synthesis, Centers for Disease Control, avian influenza  
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2701 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Apr 2013 at 8:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-04 09:19:31 PM

Weatherkiss: AverageAmericanGuy: I didn't get the shot last year and last year was the first time in years that I didn't get the flu.

I think we can deduce what the flu vaccine is *really* meant to do. It's a scam to keep people paying for flu treatments.

Playing with people's health is heinous. And the damage that the vaccines can cause in young children is unforgivable.

Guess we better get the government out of healthcare, then.

But seriously, correlation does not = causation. The flu shot isn't supposed to be a silver bullet against the flu. The influenza is constantly mutating, it mutates rapidly, and its mutations are so unpredictable which causes there to be a new flu shot every year. All we can do is ballpark where we think the flu mutation strands are going, and create a weakened version of it to inject into the sick, elderly, and children.

Unfortunately, even then... it's not guaranteed to do anything. Sometimes the flu mutates in a completely different way that the vaccine does nothing. It's a case of genetic warfare. Sometimes we win, sometimes the flu wins. It constantly evolves and mutates in order to survive.

The reason the sick, elderly, and children are encouraged to get it is because the costs and risks of getting the flu is much higher than those with a healthy immune system.

But you can keep thinking it's a scam. I'm sure all of those eggheads in labcoats in facilities go home after work and sleep soundly knowing they're keeping the sick, elderly, and children sick and forced to rely on healthcare.

Go watch the 2012 film Contagion. It's so accurate to how it works in the real world it's scary.

/works in a hospital lab


Been wonder about that one. Heard it was good.

 I'll look into it. Thanks!
 
2013-04-04 09:20:22 PM
WAAAAK! Hallelujah!

[img600.imageshack.us image 529x800]


please tell me that's not real

YES! It is REAL!
I went to the South China Morning Post website to check it out myself.
Here's the link:

http://www.scmp.com/business/money/markets-investing/article/1206152 /b ird-flu-scare-gives-shot-arm-vaccine-shares
 
2013-04-04 09:20:57 PM

Apos: Lumber Jack Off: Apos: [thehubnow.com image 850x850]

birdemic - jesus - I saw it in the theater.

/luckily it was a rifftrax
//saw it's listed on netflex - cannot imagine watching that POS without the rifftrax

Heh.....This can't be stressed enough.


That movie was a real thing??
 
2013-04-04 09:22:03 PM
Medicine is not a science, it is a business. They do not create cures, they create customers. Healthy people are not profitable. The goal is to juggle the balance between keeping you just sick enough to need treatment without killing you for as long as possible to keep the coffers full.
 
2013-04-04 09:24:46 PM

GoldSpider: Apos: Lumber Jack Off: Apos: [thehubnow.com image 850x850]

birdemic - jesus - I saw it in the theater.

/luckily it was a rifftrax
//saw it's listed on netflex - cannot imagine watching that POS without the rifftrax

Heh.....This can't be stressed enough.

That movie was a real thing??



Horrifyingly real. And a sequel is in the works.
 
2013-04-04 09:26:00 PM

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: And the damage that the vaccines can cause in young children is unforgivable.

You're trolling here, right?

Please, please tell me you're trolling. Because a 1:1,000,000 chance that my child may suffer a life-threatening adverse reaction is not the same as a good chance that my child will end up in an iron lung, or on an ECMO machine for pulmonary and cardiac complications of the flu. (I've seen the later, the only former I knew of was a woman who had lived in hers for 50 years, and died in Jackson TN)

People need to be reminded of what the world was like before vaccination.

[accessemergencymedicine.com image 180x150][www.unspecial.org image 381x253]

[gdb.voanews.com image 640x360]

The last picture in that is from Rotovirus, which in a First World Country is not as much of a killer as it once was, but in second and third world countries is one of the leading causes of pediatric death from infectious disease.

You get diarrhea so bad that in a matter of a day, without immediate fluid resuscitation, you're verging on shock and cardiovascular collapse.


"Nuh-uh."
 
2013-04-04 09:27:07 PM

awalkingecho: Medicine is not a science, it is a business. They do not create cures, they create customers. Healthy people are not profitable. The goal is to juggle the balance between keeping you just sick enough to need treatment without killing you for as long as possible to keep the coffers full.


You're an idiot, and you should feel bad for posting such nonsense which demonstrates not only a fundamental misunderstanding and ignorance of how complex a biological system that is a human being is, but how complex and multifactoral diseases are.

Antibiotics are a cure to a problem which was the number one killer of all ages prior to their widespread use. Many "blood" cancers, such as leukemia, are curable now to the 98th Perecentile - especially in pediatrics. We can "cure" strokes and we can "cure" heart attacks if they're treated early enough.

There is no way to "cure" genetics. You cannot "cure" a cancer when someone waits until it has metastasized to their organs from the initial site. You cannot "cure" a traumatic injury that requires someone's leg to be amputated. You can't cure a spinal transection.

The idea that "cures" aren't profitable is silly. Even if a cure is found for ALL cancers, there will be a need for multiple doses, in the same person more than likely. Everyone, if they live long enough, will get cancer. A cure for HIV would be worth trillions of dollars worldwide, and would give the inventor of it everlasting fame and fortune.
 
2013-04-04 09:29:49 PM

hardinparamedic: awalkingecho: Medicine is not a science, it is a business. They do not create cures, they create customers. Healthy people are not profitable. The goal is to juggle the balance between keeping you just sick enough to need treatment without killing you for as long as possible to keep the coffers full.

You're an idiot, and you should feel bad for posting such nonsense which demonstrates not only a fundamental misunderstanding and ignorance of how complex a biological system that is a human being is, but how complex and multifactoral diseases are.

Antibiotics are a cure to a problem which was the number one killer of all ages prior to their widespread use. Many "blood" cancers, such as leukemia, are curable now to the 98th Perecentile - especially in pediatrics. We can "cure" strokes and we can "cure" heart attacks if they're treated early enough.

There is no way to "cure" genetics. You cannot "cure" a cancer when someone waits until it has metastasized to their organs from the initial site. You cannot "cure" a traumatic injury that requires someone's leg to be amputated. You can't cure a spinal transection.

The idea that "cures" aren't profitable is silly. Even if a cure is found for ALL cancers, there will be a need for multiple doses, in the same person more than likely. Everyone, if they live long enough, will get cancer. A cure for HIV would be worth trillions of dollars worldwide, and would give the inventor of it everlasting fame and fortune.


I'm not an idiot. And I'm not saying that there are no valid things that have been produced that make our overall health and wellness better (i.e antibiotics, and vaccines that have eradicated or ameliorated many of the more dastardly diseases for human kind.)

Ooooh millions of dollars worldwide! Or you could, you know, not patent it like the noble Salk in the interest of making no money so that people could afford it.
 
2013-04-04 09:31:22 PM

hardinparamedic: awalkingecho: Medicine is not a science, it is a business. They do not create cures, they create customers. Healthy people are not profitable. The goal is to juggle the balance between keeping you just sick enough to need treatment without killing you for as long as possible to keep the coffers full.

You're an idiot, and you should feel bad for posting such nonsense which demonstrates not only a fundamental misunderstanding and ignorance of how complex a biological system that is a human being is, but how complex and multifactoral diseases are.

Antibiotics are a cure to a problem which was the number one killer of all ages prior to their widespread use. Many "blood" cancers, such as leukemia, are curable now to the 98th Perecentile - especially in pediatrics. We can "cure" strokes and we can "cure" heart attacks if they're treated early enough.

There is no way to "cure" genetics. You cannot "cure" a cancer when someone waits until it has metastasized to their organs from the initial site. You cannot "cure" a traumatic injury that requires someone's leg to be amputated. You can't cure a spinal transection.

The idea that "cures" aren't profitable is silly. Even if a cure is found for ALL cancers, there will be a need for multiple doses, in the same person more than likely. Everyone, if they live long enough, will get cancer. A cure for HIV would be worth trillions of dollars worldwide, and would give the inventor of it everlasting fame and fortune.


He's cynical, yes, but hardly an idiot. American medicine hardly has the best interests of the patients in mind.
 
2013-04-04 09:31:28 PM
Also, I was speaking with respect solely to the pharmaceutical industry. Not surgery, transfusions, immediate trauma care.
 
2013-04-04 09:38:47 PM

awalkingecho: I'm not an idiot. And I'm not saying that there are no valid things that have been produced that make our overall health and wellness better (i.e antibiotics, and vaccines that have eradicated or ameliorated many of the more dastardly diseases for human kind.)


Then stop acting like one and trying to promote irrational beliefs that everyone in medicine is just interested in profit, and that it would be easy to suppress the cure for ANYTHING that is either A) Remotely financhially beneficial to a business entity or B) Would alleviate a massive financhial burdon on a national government in a First World country

It would be impossible to "Suppress a cure" for something like Solid Cancers, or HIV, or COPD, or Congestive Heart Failure. The United States would have the First Infantry Division marching through your labs with tanks and shocky sticks to beat the secrets out of you if that were the case. The resulting lawsuits would still be far less expensive than a single year of treating it's population for these diseases would be.

And that's even ignoring the human factor.

awalkingecho: Ooooh millions of dollars worldwide! Or you could, you know, not patent it like the noble Salk in the interest of making no money so that people could afford it.


You're off by a couple of zeores if you're talking about a meaningful cure for a solid cancer, or for a pandemic infection like HIV. Try starting in the trillions and working your way up.

Governments would pay ANY price to cure their populations of HIV, for starters to use as an example, because of how much of a drain these people are on their coffers.

 

awalkingecho: Or you could, you know, not patent it like the noble Salk in the interest of making no money so that people could afford it.


Except for the fact that vaccines are offered free to the public through your local health department and vaccination clinics based on your income, are heavily subsidzed for those that make too much to quality for the free vaccinations, and outside of First World Countries, are offered free of charge through various Governmental and Non-Governmental groups, like the WHO.

Also, the Salk vaccine is GREAT in First World countries like the US and France, where they have ready access to reliable refridgeration. There's a reason the Sabin vaccine was chosen for everyone else, and it's not because it was patented. The original Salk vaccine is also no longer used, because there are vastly more effective vaccines on market.

Go rail on about Lipitor, Psychiatric Drugs, and COX Inhibitors if you want to biatch about Pharma's profit schemes and bad behavior. It ain't in vaccination.
 
2013-04-04 09:39:45 PM

awalkingecho: Also, I was speaking with respect solely to the pharmaceutical industry. Not surgery, transfusions, immediate trauma care.


Then forgive me for lashing at you. I get tired of hearing the idea that anyone in medicine is interested in profits and not the patient.
 
2013-04-04 09:41:38 PM
Good.  Put a little fear back into the mix (vaccines aren't big money makers).  Rapid production of another 100% effective recombinant vaccine (ala H5N1) should enhance the art and replace the reign of slow production with eggs with that of Autographa Californica (and friends).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3194932/

During the last media panic (H5N1), the team at the U.Pittsburgh's Core Vector Facility had a 100% effective/recombinant Vaccine out the door a full year before the fearmongers quit farking those poor chickens:


According to Simon Barratt-Boyes, associate professor in the Pitt Graduate School of Public Health's Department of Infectious Diseases and Microbiology, and one of the study's coauthors, the ability of this particular recombinant vaccine-a vaccine carrying only the important immune-stimulating proteins-to induce both antibody- and T-cell-directed immunity is extremely encouraging.

"This means that this recombinant vaccine can stimulate several lines of defense against the H5N1 virus, giving it greater therapeutic value. More importantly, it suggests that even if H5N1 mutates, the vaccine is still likely to be effective against it. How effective, we are not sure," Barratt-Boyes cautioned. "We won't know until that occurs."
Based on the superior degree of protection that they found in mice vaccinated with full-length HA vaccine, Gambotto's group, working with the U.S. Department of Agriculture, tested its effectiveness in chickens, which have almost a 100 percent mortality rate to H5N1 exposure. In all, the researchers inoculated four groups of chickens either through their noses (intranasally) or with subcutaneous injections of either the HA-containing vaccine or the empty vector vaccine. The chickens were then challenged with a dose of whole H5N1 virus 10,000 times greater than the dose given to the mice and significantly greater than the dose that farm chickens are likely to be exposed to during a natural outbreak.

Interestingly, all of the chickens that were immunized subcutaneously survived exposure to H5N1, developed strong HA-specific antibody responses and showed no clinical signs of disease. In contrast, half of the chickens immunized intranasally died and half survived. All of the chickens immunized with the empty vector (intranasally and subcutaneously) died within two days of H5N1 exposure. The researchers are still not sure why the subcutaneous delivery is more effective than the intranasal delivery of the vaccine, but they suggested it may be because the adenovirus vector they used has limited infectivity via the nose and respiratory tract.

 http://www.umc.pitt.edu/rr/issues/2006spring/avian-flu.html
 
2013-04-04 09:42:08 PM

hardinparamedic: Go rail on about Lipitor, Psychiatric Drugs, and COX Inhibitors if you want to biatch about Pharma's profit schemes and bad behavior. It ain't in vaccination.


I, at no point, decried vaccination whatsoever. I apologize for taking my soapbox into a vaccination thread, as it gives that illusion. It was not my intention, and I apologize. The above sort of drugs are more of the types of things I have a problem with. And myriad other 'Fix this with this. Side effects include this, so take this to fix that.'

And I am aware Salk's vaccine is no longer used. My point was the ethical move that he made.

And take the chip off your shoulder. I realize you're an EMT and so you're probably quick to anger when someone crosses swords with your profession, but it was not a personal slight.
 
2013-04-04 09:43:06 PM

hardinparamedic: awalkingecho: Also, I was speaking with respect solely to the pharmaceutical industry. Not surgery, transfusions, immediate trauma care.

Then forgive me for lashing at you. I get tired of hearing the idea that anyone in medicine is interested in profits and not the patient.


Apology accepted, and ditto for not being more clear about what I was saying. I'm sorry, I'm sure it gets old, and I did not mean to start a war.
 
2013-04-04 09:44:30 PM

hardinparamedic: Except for the fact that vaccines are offered free to the public through your local health department and vaccination clinics based on your income, are heavily subsidzed for those that make too much to quality for the free vaccinations, and outside of First World Countries, are offered free of charge through various Governmental and Non-Governmental groups, like the WHO.


Drug companies don't give any away for free. They are paid for by the government with tax dollars. It's still a huge amount of income for the pharmaceutical industry, no matter who pays for them.

It should have been a wake up call for everyone when Rumsfeld was leading the wave of fear over the bird flu in the very beginning, and was later found to have a great deal of stock in Tamiflu.
 
2013-04-04 09:46:57 PM
It just bugs me seeing labeled pens and letterhead on a prescription pad in a doctor's office, knowing full well who pays his salary or the hospital's grant money. They're encouraged to prescribe the latest and greatest shiat that rolls downhill from GSK at every little problem when dietary corrections and lifestyle changes can fix a great deal of it.

Now, when there's serious problems? Give me what I really need, I won't gripe.
 
2013-04-04 09:55:02 PM
I didn't get my flu shot this year and I am on my third day of the flu. Last time I had it was two years ago. Before that it was ten years before. I've had one flu shot in all that time. I don't know where I'm going with this. Where are the drugs?
 
2013-04-04 10:01:39 PM

katerbug72: I didn't get my flu shot this year and I am on my third day of the flu. Last time I had it was two years ago. Before that it was ten years before. I've had one flu shot in all that time. I don't know where I'm going with this. Where are the drugs?


*opens his trenchcoat* Whatcha need? I got dat good good DXM. First one's free.
 
2013-04-04 10:12:30 PM

awalkingecho: katerbug72: I didn't get my flu shot this year and I am on my third day of the flu. Last time I had it was two years ago. Before that it was ten years before. I've had one flu shot in all that time. I don't know where I'm going with this. Where are the drugs?

*opens his trenchcoat* Whatcha need? I got dat good good DXM. First one's free.


I'll take 30ml.
 
2013-04-04 11:54:24 PM

revrendjim: ringersol: Cytokine Storm: "I don't get it, what's so scary about the flu?"

What you did there, I saw it.

/golfclap

ah, just noticed the user name. Well played.


No no your Boobies was satire!
 
2013-04-05 12:02:06 AM

awalkingecho: hardinparamedic: awalkingecho: Also, I was speaking with respect solely to the pharmaceutical industry. Not surgery, transfusions, immediate trauma care.

Then forgive me for lashing at you. I get tired of hearing the idea that anyone in medicine is interested in profits and not the patient.

Apology accepted, and ditto for not being more clear about what I was saying. I'm sorry, I'm sure it gets old, and I did not mean to start a war.


Would you two take this understanding and human decency out of here?!

 This is a *fark* thread for crying out loud!

/but seriously, good job guys. :)
 
2013-04-05 12:16:55 AM
Why scary?

Ohhh, Jenny Mccarthy, never mind.
 
2013-04-05 12:59:30 AM
The real question is will it be better than last year sorry 65% effectiveness rate? That was a failing score when I was in school and do not even say its better than nothing. Chicken soup and garlic is also better than nothing and you can get a farkload of it for the $25 they charge for a shot that got a failing grade last year.

I'm not opposed to medication, I'm opposed to suckage. And if 35% of your guys paid $25 for the shot and got sick anyway, that shot sucked. Those dudes deserve a refund.

Here's a question. You go to your medic. He does something to you ànd it doesn't help. You have to pay him any way. Why? I think they should be forced to give refunds for stuff that didn't work. My plumber does. Since they know 35% of those shots didn't do anything, they should be writing refund checks to a lot of people.
 
2013-04-05 01:57:59 AM

Ivo Shandor: Cytokine Storm: Ya but that's if you're old. I'm young and healthy, what's there to worry about?

What you did there...

And for Dr. McCarthy upthread:
[i.imgur.com image 640x447]


I love graphs with lines going the same way. They just speak to me the way other things can't. Through such graphs I have learned how Panda reproduction rates are linked to Jimmy Dean sausage output and how the number of terrorist incidents are directly linked to number of Pokemon Gold sales.,Everything is so amazingly clear now. (Sadly people are really this stupid).
 
2013-04-05 02:03:37 AM

Apos:


Came for Birdemic ref, leaving satisfied.
 
2013-04-05 02:20:35 AM
My grandfather used to talk about seeing the effects of the Spanish flu in Europe at the end of WWI. When it was time to go home, he was marched through dozens of little villages and some towns where there wasn't a person left to be seen. And if there is a serious flu outbreak, it'll probably hit Las Vegas here first.

I have nightmares about walking down the Las Vegas Strip: All the lights are turned off, there's no noise, and I'm the only living person left.
 
2013-04-05 04:16:14 AM

Coelacanth: My grandfather used to talk about seeing the effects of the Spanish flu in Europe at the end of WWI. When it was time to go home, he was marched through dozens of little villages and some towns where there wasn't a person left to be seen. And if there is a serious flu outbreak, it'll probably hit Las Vegas here first.

I have nightmares about walking down the Las Vegas Strip: All the lights are turned off, there's no noise, and I'm the only living person left.


Trashcan Man? That you?
 
2013-04-05 04:27:47 AM

star_topology:
He's cynical, yes, but hardly an idiot. American medicine hardly has the best interests of the patients in mind.


The American Medicine Industrial Complex is the problem. The available treatments are not. There are more things available today which prolong life and ease suffering but it's the bureaucracy surrounding it which is deadly.
 
2013-04-05 04:50:52 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I didn't get the shot last year and last year was the first time in years that I didn't get the flu.

I think we can deduce what the flu vaccine is *really* meant to do. It's a scam to keep people paying for flu treatments.

Playing with people's health is heinous. And the damage that the vaccines can cause in young children is unforgivable.


You are not a statistically significant excerpt of society.
 
2013-04-05 05:10:18 AM

hardinparamedic: awalkingecho: Also, I was speaking with respect solely to the pharmaceutical industry. Not surgery, transfusions, immediate trauma care.

Then forgive me for lashing at you. I get tired of hearing the idea that anyone in medicine is interested in profits and not the patient.


Paramedics are pickpockets! An ambulance ride is $5,500+gas and all the money in your wallet

They will straight JACK you just drive to the hospital yourself pussy
 
2013-04-05 05:23:56 AM
has any one ever seen a high ranking member of any of the pharma's that produce these inoculations, people that actually know what's in those injections,  being inoculated with their own stuff...

I'm having an issue with that, and I don't exactly know why...
 
2013-04-05 06:49:55 AM

3rotor: has any one ever seen a high ranking member of any of the pharma's that produce these inoculations, people that actually know what's in those injections,  being inoculated with their own stuff...

I'm having an issue with that, and I don't exactly know why...


Have you ever seen the engineer that designed your car drive it?
He probably has. And given the extensive testing that goes into making a normal vaccine I'm guessing that the dudes that make them also use them without a worry in the world.
 
2013-04-05 08:06:19 AM

3rotor: has any one ever seen a high ranking member of any of the pharma's that produce these inoculations, people that actually know what's in those injections,  being inoculated with their own stuff...


I'm having an issue with that, and I don't exactly know why...

67-72chevytrucks.com


How about instead just for your enlightenment we show this

insolemexumbra.files.wordpress.com

3.bp.blogspot.com


It is crazy that a certain part of our country, whether or not they are left or right, just want to see this type of stuff happen again. There seems to be some that want to see it happen because some how they believe that  there crusade against inoculations will be right, don't ask me how that is right, but that is what they believe.

Then there are those that believe that the evil liberals will become of one of these faiths and waist away, then the Republican will inherit the Earth.
 
2013-04-05 09:29:11 AM
wickedragon:

Have you ever seen the engineer that designed your car drive it?
He probably has. And given the extensive testing that goes into making a normal vaccine I'm guessing that the dudes that make them also use them without a worry in the world.


thanks,  but your are still just guessing....  might be an educated guess... but still a guess nun the less...
As for the car engineer thing,  I design and build my own car's, it's got nothing to do with what I'm on about here...

Is there any one that can say they actually physically saw a CEO of some big  Pharma company stand in line for an injection.... I sure have not, never even heard of it,  yet, anyway....
 
2013-04-05 05:59:49 PM

3rotor: wickedragon:

Have you ever seen the engineer that designed your car drive it?
He probably has. And given the extensive testing that goes into making a normal vaccine I'm guessing that the dudes that make them also use them without a worry in the world.

thanks,  but your are still just guessing....  might be an educated guess... but still a guess nun the less...
As for the car engineer thing,  I design and build my own car's, it's got nothing to do with what I'm on about here...

Is there any one that can say they actually physically saw a CEO of some big  Pharma company stand in line for an injection.... I sure have not, never even heard of it,  yet, anyway....


I'm not quite sure you didn't rape and murder a young girl in 1990. I mean, I've never seen you NOT do it. I'm JUST asking questions!
 
2013-04-05 07:46:28 PM
Not from human to human contact... only one other explanation:

img63.imageshack.us
 
2013-04-06 02:59:23 AM

wickedragon: AverageAmericanGuy: I didn't get the shot last year and last year was the first time in years that I didn't get the flu.

I think we can deduce what the flu vaccine is *really* meant to do. It's a scam to keep people paying for flu treatments.

Playing with people's health is heinous. And the damage that the vaccines can cause in young children is unforgivable.

You are not a statistically significant excerpt of society.


My mom says I'm statistically significant...
 
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