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(Giant Freakin Robot)   Some guy named Ron Moore argues why TV Trek is better than Movie Trek   (giantfreakinrobot.com) divider line 73
    More: Interesting, Star Trek, TV Trek, Harlan Ellison, Deep Space Network  
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2332 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Apr 2013 at 6:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-05 12:32:14 AM  

OceanVortex: THE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!


Yes.

Gul Madred is best Kardashian.
 
2013-04-05 12:52:41 AM  
That site's color scheme really messed up my eyeballs. Anyone else?

Oh, and yes, there needs to be a new Trek TV series because what Abrams is doing looks like a parody.

/ I will go see Into Darkness anyway.
 
2013-04-05 01:01:25 AM  
Back in the day, Star Trek meant something:
img339.imageshack.us
Now?  It's just Iron Man, meets Twilight,
in SPAAAAAAACE

/thanks JJ
 
2013-04-05 01:25:44 AM  
Star Wars was about shiat blowing up. Star Trek was never supposed to be. It was a hit-and-miss endeavor, but ultimately the show was about ideas.

If I were writing a Star Trek movie script, the first restriction I'd give myself would be: No explosions.
 
2013-04-05 01:54:29 AM  

NeoCortex42: AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."

I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.


Having recently gone back and watched Seasons 1-4 again, I disagree with this conventional wisdom.  The first season is better than people want to give it credit for, because of the studio cajoling JMS into replacing O'Hare with Boxleitner.  "Soul Hunter", "Parliament of Dreams", and "The War Prayer" are as good as any given episode during the heart of the show's run.  "Mind War", "Signs and Portents", and "Babylon Squared" all do a great job of building the series-wide plot arcs.  And people completely forget "Believers" was a first-season episode.  I think it's up there with some of the best individual sci-fi episodes of that era, right up there with "The Coming of Shadows", TNG's "Inner Light", DS9's "The Visitor", X-Files' "Final Repose"...hell, I'll even add "A Hole in the World" to that short list.

Oh, and to defend the pilot - "The Gathering" was nominated for a Hugo (Best Dramatic Presentation - the standard category for movies and TV) in 1994.  In the history of that category, after the original Star Trek series got eight episodes nominated in three years, only four television programs even got nominated - Six Million Dollar Man, Cosmos, Martian Chronicles, and Next Generation.  And the year "The Gathering" got nominated, it was up against Jurassic Park and Nightmare Before Christmas (FWIW, Groundhog Day also got a nomination that year).  And keep in mind, it wasn't until 2003 that the Hugo committee finally differentiated between long and short form.  And I'd say to get put on the same short list as those three movies is pretty significant.
 
2013-04-05 03:09:55 AM  

NeoCortex42: AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."

I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.


But if you don't watch the first season you will probably be slightly aloof about a few things that happen latter.  I would also add that the final season might as well not exist.  Some of the movies are ok, and the spinoff was terrible.
 
2013-04-05 07:41:06 AM  
Translation: Someone make a TV show so I can have a job.
 
2013-04-05 09:07:15 AM  

Blue_Blazer: NeoCortex42: AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."

I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.

But if you don't watch the first season you will probably be slightly aloof about a few things that happen latter.  I would also add that the final season might as well not exist.  Some of the movies are ok, and the spinoff was terrible.


I'm rewatching as well, and yes, Season 1 has some clunkers, but it's not as bad as some people will tell you. Still a ton of stuff happening, and being set up.
 
2013-04-05 09:33:32 AM  
i.imgur.com

"Ron, get in the house."
 
2013-04-05 10:17:25 AM  

uknesvuinng: Car_Ramrod: That's like debating which Kardashian is the best.

Garak, obviously.


Damn, I need a replicator for this screen.

/Tenagra, when the walls fell (a personal favourite as I found the "universal translator" concept far too convenient).
 
2013-04-05 10:19:58 AM  

Mytch: Translation: Someone make a TV show so I can have a job.


If they ever brought Star Trek back to TV, he would be the man for the job. The man knows how to make good Star Trek and he knows how to make an exciting serial TV space opera (except for the ending...ugh!).
  It would be incredibly expensive to make a modern Star Trek show that matches the visual style and action of the Abrahms movies, but BSG looked pretty damn good and that was years ago. And they're gonna need something to compete with the tidal wave of Star Wars and Marvel coming from Disney and ABC.
 If Abrahms is done with Trek, I say give it to Moore.

/LL&P
 
2013-04-05 10:38:49 AM  

NeoCortex42: AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."

I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.


I liked the first season. Yes, it gets so much better seasons 2-4, but the first season had so much charm to them. There was a raw, frenetic energy to those episodes because they were trying really hard to make something new and different. I love how everything is crowded and messy and a biatchaotic. By the time you get to the fifth season, things are a lot cleaner and polished.

The best part about the first season is the fact that they were already building to something that wouldn't pay off for 2-3 years, and back then that was unheard of on television. That first season, I just thought it was another science fiction show on a space station, and that was the trap. By the end of season 2, I realize that this is something entirely different and I was hooked from then on. And yes, that final episode still holds up as one of the all time best final episodes, not just in science fiction, but television.

If you've never seen the show, just start watching it and avoid any and all spoilers.
 
2013-04-05 11:09:41 AM  
NeoCortex42:

unscrwed.com

The only thing I can see in that pic is how freakishly long Patrick Stewart's right arm is.

And now you can't unsee it either.
 
2013-04-05 11:36:59 AM  

Quigs: Stile4aly:

I preferred The Undiscovered Country, myself.


And you'd be right. Khan was great. Undiscovered Country was Greater.


I recently reqatched Khan for the first time since my early teens.  I was underwhelmed, looks like I know what to check out next.
 
2013-04-05 12:36:54 PM  

TelemonianAjax: Quigs: Stile4aly:

I preferred The Undiscovered Country, myself.


And you'd be right. Khan was great. Undiscovered Country was Greater.

I recently reqatched Khan for the first time since my early teens.  I was underwhelmed, looks like I know what to check out next.


I was actually a little unimpressed by Undiscovered Country the first time I saw it, but have grown to appreciate more and more as time goes on. The only other Trek movie that seems to get better for me is Insurrection. Really, the only thing about Star Trek 6 that bugs me is the scene where the Enterprise is sneaking across the Klingon border and Uhura is scrambling to find the correct phrasing to fool the listening outpost out of a Klingon dictionary. I kinda figured that a senior officer like her, longtime communications officer of one of Starfleet's most decorated ships, would know the language of what was then the Federation's enemy. Hell, the re-boot Uhura and Hosi off Enterprise sure as hell did.
 
2013-04-05 01:10:15 PM  
Your_Huckleberry:  Really, the only thing about Star Trek 6 that bugs me is the scene where the Enterprise is sneaking across the Klingon border and Uhura is scrambling to find the correct phrasing to fool the listening outpost out of a Klingon dictionary. I kinda figured that a senior officer like her, longtime communications officer of one of Starfleet's most decorated ships, would know the language of what was then the Federation's enemy.

That's the joke jpg.
 
2013-04-05 02:39:17 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: The only other Trek movie that seems to get better for me is Insurrection.


Insurrection gets more flak than it should. I think it is because fundamentally it's a "small" picture, which doesn't play so well in a theater. At home, on DVD or Blu-ray, it's fine, and if it was considered as "just" an episode of TNG rather than a major motion picture experience, it would be much higher regarded.
 
2013-04-05 03:41:53 PM  

flaminio: Your_Huckleberry: The only other Trek movie that seems to get better for me is Insurrection.

Insurrection gets more flak than it should. I think it is because fundamentally it's a "small" picture, which doesn't play so well in a theater. At home, on DVD or Blu-ray, it's fine, and if it was considered as "just" an episode of TNG rather than a major motion picture experience, it would be much higher regarded.



I think the problem with Insurrection is that the people they were trying to help were assholes. They were squatting on a planet with life giving radiation or whatever and they refused to share it with anyone. And we were supposed to sympathise with them, just because Picard was trying to hit one of them.
 
2013-04-05 05:42:17 PM  

Mugato: flaminio: Your_Huckleberry: The only other Trek movie that seems to get better for me is Insurrection.

Insurrection gets more flak than it should. I think it is because fundamentally it's a "small" picture, which doesn't play so well in a theater. At home, on DVD or Blu-ray, it's fine, and if it was considered as "just" an episode of TNG rather than a major motion picture experience, it would be much higher regarded.


I think the problem with Insurrection is that the people they were trying to help were assholes. They were squatting on a planet with life giving radiation or whatever and they refused to share it with anyone. And we were supposed to sympathise with them, just because Picard was trying to hit one of them.


Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.
There was Troi's remark about "why is the Federation helping these people?" meaning the Son'a
before the secret plan is revealed. I think more effort should have been to get the idea across of how damaging the war was to the Federation, that dire circumstances forced them to work with someone they normally would look down their noses at. Only to find out the people were even worse than they thought, cue a righteous speech from Picard about abandoning thier principles.
And maybe throw in a mention of Worf losing his wife, or a question about why the fleet's most advanced ship and super experienced crew is running diplomatic missions or heading to archaeological digs where there's a bloody war going on, lose Riker steering the Enterprise with a joystick....those would've helped.
Still, far superior movie to Nemesis.
 
2013-04-05 06:14:28 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.


Didn't catch that in DS9. But yeah, it should have been a full out war movie with the Dominion. JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek.
 
2013-04-06 11:26:43 AM  

Mugato: Your_Huckleberry: Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.

Didn't catch that in DS9. But yeah, it should have been a full out war movie with the Dominion. JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek.


I didn't catch the reference the first time I saw it, but did when I re-watched DS9 on Netflix. Very short exchange between Dumar and Weyoun about moving forces to help the Son'a defend their "white' production facilties. Dumar even asks if the Son'a are capable of defending themselves and Weyoun shakes his head that they are not.

JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek

Yeah, looks that way.
 
2013-04-07 06:35:36 AM  

Old enough to know better: I thought that way too. At least until Voyager came along.


And then Enterprise.  The level of potential squandered on both shows by Berman/Braga is simply mindblowing.

Mugato: Your_Huckleberry: Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.

Didn't catch that in DS9. But yeah, it should have been a full out war movie with the Dominion. JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek.


Disagree.  What JJ showed is that what people want is an unabashed vilian who will stop at literally nothing to achieve whatever end.  High concept can facilitate that, but frankly an action movie that tugs the heart strings wins over high concept every time.

I can promise you he had 95% of every theater with one line, "I'm not going to be there."
 
2013-04-08 02:51:50 PM  

Jarhead_h: Old enough to know better: I thought that way too. At least until Voyager came along.

And then Enterprise.  The level of potential squandered on both shows by Berman/Braga is simply mindblowing.

Mugato: Your_Huckleberry: Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.

Didn't catch that in DS9. But yeah, it should have been a full out war movie with the Dominion. JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek.

Disagree.  What JJ showed is that what people want is an unabashed vilian who will stop at literally nothing to achieve whatever end.  High concept can facilitate that, but frankly an action movie that tugs the heart strings wins over high concept every time.

I can promise you he had 95% of every theater with one line, "I'm not going to be there."


Is the reboot the only one you've seen? The type of villain you describe is in Nemesis, insurrection, First Contact, Generations, The Undiscovered Country, The Search For Spock and The Wrath Of Khan. Nero wasn't anything new or groundbreaking, I happened to like the character, but let's not pretend he re-invented anything. I can recall more than one review that thought Nero was an underwhelming villain.
And yes, the first scene was good. But as for heart strings, I didn't think they were able to come close to that emotional impact the rest of the film-not even when Vulcan was destroyed.
 
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