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(Giant Freakin Robot)   Some guy named Ron Moore argues why TV Trek is better than Movie Trek   (giantfreakinrobot.com) divider line 73
    More: Interesting, Star Trek, TV Trek, Harlan Ellison, Deep Space Network  
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2334 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Apr 2013 at 6:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-04 05:27:22 PM  
No Lens Flare, or people who use Lens Flare, in TV Trek?
 
2013-04-04 06:06:22 PM  
Interesting that he cites Lower Decks as proof.

The problem really is that the best ST episodes are not really Trek, in the exploration sense.  Best of Both Worlds, Inner Light, Chain of Command, In the Pale Moonlight, Duet...

None of those are really pure Trek.  They're fantastic story writing and acting, but aren't really pure.
 
2013-04-04 06:12:20 PM  
That's like debating which Kardashian is the best.
 
2013-04-04 06:13:18 PM  

Car_Ramrod: That's like debating which Kardashian is the best.


Garak, obviously.
 
2013-04-04 06:21:30 PM  

uknesvuinng: Car_Ramrod: That's like debating which Kardashian is the best.

Garak, obviously.


Mmmaybe, but he had an entire series to show off. Ditto to Gul Dukat.

/Gul Madred!
 
2013-04-04 06:26:28 PM  

legion_of_doo: uknesvuinng: Car_Ramrod: That's like debating which Kardashian is the best.

Garak, obviously.

Mmmaybe, but he had an entire series to show off. Ditto to Gul Dukat.

/Gul Madred!


Ah Dukat.  The most likeable version of Hitler ever put on TV.
 
2013-04-04 06:28:16 PM  
Because it allows for lazy writing and at the end if you don't know what to do just say it was angels?
 
2013-04-04 06:29:35 PM  
I thought that way too. At least until Voyager came along.
 
2013-04-04 06:34:25 PM  

Old enough to know better: I thought that way too. At least until Voyager came along.


Final episode, even with borg and time travel thrown in, couldn't make a decent episode.
 
2013-04-04 06:37:32 PM  

Old enough to know better: I thought that way too. At least until Voyager came along.


that's what happens when you let a woman drive.
 
2013-04-04 06:37:44 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: Because it allows for lazy writing and at the end if you don't know what to do just say it was angels?


I see my work is done here.

/Still one of the best sci-fi shows of all time...but damn. That ending.
 
2013-04-04 06:37:49 PM  

GAT_00: The problem really is that the best ST episodes are not really Trek, in the exploration sense.  Best of Both Worlds, Inner Light, Chain of Command, In the Pale Moonlight, Duet...


It's the same reason why Wrath of Khan is the best of the movies.
 
2013-04-04 06:41:48 PM  

palan: GAT_00: The problem really is that the best ST episodes are not really Trek, in the exploration sense.  Best of Both Worlds, Inner Light, Chain of Command, In the Pale Moonlight, Duet...

It's the same reason why Wrath of Khan is the best of the movies.


Yeah.  ST:I is the most pure Trek movie, though III is pretty close in some ways.  But yeah, that's exactly the point.  Star Trek is at it's best when it steps away from Roddenberry's pure vision and gets dirty.
 
2013-04-04 06:45:48 PM  

GAT_00: Interesting that he cites Lower Decks as proof.

The problem really is that the best ST episodes are not really Trek, in the exploration sense.  Best of Both Worlds, Inner Light, Chain of Command, In the Pale Moonlight, Duet...

None of those are really pure Trek.  They're fantastic story writing and acting, but aren't really pure.


Bullshiat. TOS wasn't just out there exploring the stars, it was exploring the human condition and political and social commentary through various alien encounters. You can't tell me there isn't plenty of exploration of the human condition or political or social commentary in those episodes you just listed.
 
2013-04-04 06:49:30 PM  
Dingleberry Dickwad:
Bullshiat. TOS wasn't just out there exploring the stars, it was exploring the human condition and political and social commentary through various alien encounters.

rerunningfromreality.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-04 06:51:08 PM  

palan: GAT_00: The problem really is that the best ST episodes are not really Trek, in the exploration sense.  Best of Both Worlds, Inner Light, Chain of Command, In the Pale Moonlight, Duet...

It's the same reason why Wrath of Khan is the best of the movies.


I preferred The Undiscovered Country, myself.

The main problem is that for a Trek movie (or any movie adapted from a TV series) to be worthwhile, it has to transcend what could be done on the small screen.  Out of the 4 Next Gen movies, only First Contact had any sense of epic scale.  None of the others felt as good as Best of Both Worlds or any of the Dominion war stuff from DS9.  The first JJ Trek succeeded because it made a point of not being constrained by the canon of the series which allowed it to do big dangerous things that you couldn't do in a series.
 
2013-04-04 06:56:44 PM  

YodaBlues: Spanky_McFarksalot: Because it allows for lazy writing and at the end if you don't know what to do just say it was angels?

I see my work is done here.

/Still one of the best sci-fi shows of all time...but damn. That ending.


Not just the finale, but most of season 4. The writers even admitted they were making up the answers to questions as they went along. It really showed, especially with the result of the opera house vision.

I still love the show, but it's one of those shows where it's best not to think about it too much.
 
2013-04-04 06:59:29 PM  

GAT_00: Yeah. ST:I is the most pure Trek movie, though III is pretty close in some ways. But yeah, that's exactly the point. Star Trek is at it's best when it steps away from Roddenberry's pure vision and gets dirty.


I have never (1) seen someone refer to Insurrection as "ST:I" as if people will know what they're talking about or (2) say anything good about it, but thank you so much. You are exactly right. It was basically a 2 hour TNG episode and a pretty good one at that.

If by "dirty" you mean "gritty" like the whole secret Starfleet CIA thing in DS9, then I kinda disagree. Leave the gritty stuff for other series or at least partition it off its own part of the Trek universe.
 
2013-04-04 07:01:03 PM  

NeoCortex42: I still love the show, but it's one of those shows where it's best not to think about it too much.


No matter how bad any other SciFi show gets, you'll always be able to say "Well, at least the payoff was better than Lost"
 
2013-04-04 07:08:13 PM  

jonny_q: NeoCortex42: I still love the show, but it's one of those shows where it's best not to think about it too much.

No matter how bad any other SciFi show gets, you'll always be able to say "Well, at least the payoff was better than Lost"


Indeed.  Then again, how many sci-fi shows (or just shows) are able to come up with truly satisfying endings?  DS9?  Nope.  Voyager?  Nope.   BGS rebooted?  Nope.  The X-Files?  Ha!

TNG ended well.  What else?
 
2013-04-04 07:11:40 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: No Lens Flare


I heard he observed that the lens flare in Trek movies doubles every 18 months... a "Moore's Law" if you will.
 
2013-04-04 07:16:16 PM  
The TNG movies seemed like they were trying to be a parody of the show.
 
2013-04-04 07:18:38 PM  
Stile4aly:

I preferred The Undiscovered Country, myself.


And you'd be right. Khan was great. Undiscovered Country was Greater.
 
2013-04-04 07:25:14 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: jonny_q: NeoCortex42: I still love the show, but it's one of those shows where it's best not to think about it too much.

No matter how bad any other SciFi show gets, you'll always be able to say "Well, at least the payoff was better than Lost"

Indeed.  Then again, how many sci-fi shows (or just shows) are able to come up with truly satisfying endings?  DS9?  Nope.  Voyager?  Nope.   BGS rebooted?  Nope.  The X-Files?  Ha!

TNG ended well.  What else?


Babylon 5.
 
2013-04-04 07:35:39 PM  
Totally agree with him. The thing that makes the movies good is that they're made for the fans as an addition to the existing TV show, not as some stand alone movie about characters nobody cares about. Personally I'd love to see a new TV series.
 
2013-04-04 08:04:20 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: jonny_q: NeoCortex42: I still love the show, but it's one of those shows where it's best not to think about it too much.

No matter how bad any other SciFi show gets, you'll always be able to say "Well, at least the payoff was better than Lost"

Indeed.  Then again, how many sci-fi shows (or just shows) are able to come up with truly satisfying endings?  DS9?  Nope.  Voyager?  Nope.   BGS rebooted?  Nope.  The X-Files?  Ha!

TNG ended well.  What else?


Lexx
 
2013-04-04 08:14:00 PM  

MrEricSir: The TNG movies seemed like they were trying to be a parody of the show.


this. why did we get action star picard?
 
2013-04-04 08:19:44 PM  

Stile4aly: AliceBToklasLives: jonny_q: NeoCortex42: I still love the show, but it's one of those shows where it's best not to think about it too much.

No matter how bad any other SciFi show gets, you'll always be able to say "Well, at least the payoff was better than Lost"

Indeed.  Then again, how many sci-fi shows (or just shows) are able to come up with truly satisfying endings?  DS9?  Nope.  Voyager?  Nope.   BGS rebooted?  Nope.  The X-Files?  Ha!

TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.


It's a debatable statement, but yes, "Sleeping in the Light" was a complete bookend to the series.

I'd also say Space: Above and Beyond, because even though it was cancelled "Tell Our Moms We Did Our Best" was a great cliffhanger should they ever decide to revisit the material.
 
2013-04-04 08:24:53 PM  

Fano: MrEricSir: The TNG movies seemed like they were trying to be a parody of the show.

this. why did we get action star picard?


unscrwed.com
Because the writers had to be at the ship's gym in 26 minutes.
 
2013-04-04 08:32:07 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Stile4aly: AliceBToklasLives: jonny_q: NeoCortex42: I still love the show, but it's one of those shows where it's best not to think about it too much.

No matter how bad any other SciFi show gets, you'll always be able to say "Well, at least the payoff was better than Lost"

Indeed.  Then again, how many sci-fi shows (or just shows) are able to come up with truly satisfying endings?  DS9?  Nope.  Voyager?  Nope.   BGS rebooted?  Nope.  The X-Files?  Ha!

TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

It's a debatable statement, but yes, "Sleeping in the Light" was a complete bookend to the series.

I'd also say Space: Above and Beyond, because even though it was cancelled "Tell Our Moms We Did Our Best" was a great cliffhanger should they ever decide to revisit the material.


I'd say SG-1 and SG:Atlantis ended well. The Eureka finale was ok, and the end scene was exactly what it should have been. And while the show itself was interrupted horribly, Peacekeeper Wars was a decent enough ending to Farscape.
 
2013-04-04 08:35:01 PM  

GAT_00: Inner Light


Though I understand your point, I would disagree with this. True, it doesn't exactly have a happy ending, but it very much follows the "so we were out exploring and found something weird that caused some problems" setup. Inner Light can be called sad, tragic, bittersweet, etc; but it's really not a "dark" episode like the others you mentioned. And correct me if I'm wrong about your opinion, but when I see most people say that a trek episode "steps away from Roddenberry's vision" they generally mean episodes that explore humanity's darker side.

Personally, I think inner light holds to roddenberry's vision just fine, the only real difference is that plot can't be resolved by the semi-utopian federation. The episode's definitely one of the best, no doubt, I just wouldn't group it in with the others in terms of it not being pure trek. (Also, no snark intended in any of this post.)
 
2013-04-04 08:43:56 PM  
Were the Obvious and HERO tags unavailable, Smits?
 
2013-04-04 08:44:09 PM  
Of course Trek TV is better than the Trek movies.  With the movies you get the actors that only a movie budget can afford, plus better special effects.  The writing, on the other hand, is safer because they want butts in the seats.  They won't take risks in the writings.  When you have to produce 26 episodes for a year, you find yourself writing more risky stuff to produce those needed episodes.  Stories like 'The Inner Light', 'The Lower Decks', 'The Measure of a Man' would not have been produced in a purely Trek movie format.

Plus, given the nature of the show, Trek is best in tv format.  Star Trek isn't about action and adventure.  That's why episodes like 'The Inner Light' are so popular.  In TNG, the Enterprise's weapons weren't used offensively until the episode "Arsenal of Freedom", which was near the end of the first season.  The Wrath of Khan is awesome, but less like Star Trek because it's unlike what Trek actually is.
 
2013-04-04 08:51:00 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: UNC_Samurai: Stile4aly: AliceBToklasLives: jonny_q: NeoCortex42: I still love the show, but it's one of those shows where it's best not to think about it too much.

No matter how bad any other SciFi show gets, you'll always be able to say "Well, at least the payoff was better than Lost"

Indeed.  Then again, how many sci-fi shows (or just shows) are able to come up with truly satisfying endings?  DS9?  Nope.  Voyager?  Nope.   BGS rebooted?  Nope.  The X-Files?  Ha!

TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

It's a debatable statement, but yes, "Sleeping in the Light" was a complete bookend to the series.

I'd also say Space: Above and Beyond, because even though it was cancelled "Tell Our Moms We Did Our Best" was a great cliffhanger should they ever decide to revisit the material.

I'd say SG-1 and SG:Atlantis ended well. The Eureka finale was ok, and the end scene was exactly what it should have been. And while the show itself was interrupted horribly, Peacekeeper Wars was a decent enough ending to Farscape.


Atlantis' finale was kind of abrupt, I thought. More like a standard season finale. But then they up and trumped that with the finale of SGU.
Isn't about time to get the crew out of the stasis chambers?

Anyway, I'd say Moore is right on this one. As much as I've enjoyed the movies, the franchise is better on tv. Yeah, you get some bummer episodes here and there, and Voyager and/or Enterprise weren't everyone's cup of tea, but i'd rather a weekly series than waiting three or four years between Abrams' movies.

By the way, I saw/read the final moments of the Eureka ending predicted all over the place, dead on. Maybe I need to watch the pilot again but did they show something before? I mean, there were so many compleatly accurate predictions of that last sequence, it was like people off the show were posting them.
 
2013-04-04 08:51:52 PM  

Flt209er: And correct me if I'm wrong about your opinion, but when I see most people say that a trek episode "steps away from Roddenberry's vision" they generally mean episodes that explore humanity's darker side.


I don't necessarily agree with this idea of his "vision".  There were numerous episodes in TOS that explored the darker side of humanity, and showed people succumbing to their darker side.  Think about Gary Mitchell in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", Lenore Karidian in "The Conscience of the King", Dr. Adams in "Dagger of the Mind", and The Entire Episode of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield".

(I know that list is 1st season heavy, but I've started watching them again on Netflix)
 
2013-04-04 08:54:13 PM  

Great Janitor: The Wrath of Khan is awesome, but less like Star Trek because it's unlike what Trek actually is.


Wrath of Khan works because it's Moby Dick with a climactic action sequence from Das Boot.
 
2013-04-04 08:57:15 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: By the way, I saw/read the final moments of the Eureka ending predicted all over the place, dead on. Maybe I need to watch the pilot again but did they show something before? I mean, there were so many compleatly accurate predictions of that last sequence, it was like people off the show were posting them.


If you'll recall in the pilot, Sheriff Carter and Zoe drove by what Zoe swore was themselves driving out of town. Mind you at that time it still looked like young Zoe, but they still passed by themselves leaving the town.
 
2013-04-04 09:08:39 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Your_Huckleberry: By the way, I saw/read the final moments of the Eureka ending predicted all over the place, dead on. Maybe I need to watch the pilot again but did they show something before? I mean, there were so many compleatly accurate predictions of that last sequence, it was like people off the show were posting them.

If you'll recall in the pilot, Sheriff Carter and Zoe drove by what Zoe swore was themselves driving out of town. Mind you at that time it still looked like young Zoe, but they still passed by themselves leaving the town.


With all the hits and misses of the last couple of seasons (stupid timeline reset, way too much time spent on Felicia Day's story), I knew I could be happy with the finale as long as they finally paid off on the setup from the pilot.
 
2013-04-04 09:26:13 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Flt209er: And correct me if I'm wrong about your opinion, but when I see most people say that a trek episode "steps away from Roddenberry's vision" they generally mean episodes that explore humanity's darker side.

I don't necessarily agree with this idea of his "vision".  There were numerous episodes in TOS that explored the darker side of humanity, and showed people succumbing to their darker side.  Think about Gary Mitchell in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", Lenore Karidian in "The Conscience of the King", Dr. Adams in "Dagger of the Mind", and The Entire Episode of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield".

(I know that list is 1st season heavy, but I've started watching them again on Netflix)


Oh, I don't necessarily agree with it either, but I do understand the complaint people have that the federation is usually portrayed as "too perfect", for lack of a better phrase. Perhaps I should have said "the federation's darker side" or similar. Individuals characters, especially single episode characters, can be as good or as evil as the plot requires. The reason that In the Pale Moonlight is such a well remembered episode is because it's ultimately lies and deception that win the day.

I personally see Roddenberry's vision as a generalized version of Picard's rant to Wesley ("the first duty of every starfleet officer is to the truth!" ). Sisko's actions in InPM are pretty much the antithesis of that, and I fully agree with claiming that they went against Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek. I just can't find myself making a similar claim for Inner Light.
 
2013-04-04 09:26:19 PM  

Quigs: Stile4aly:

I preferred The Undiscovered Country, myself.


And you'd be right. Khan was great. Undiscovered Country was Greater.


This. Not sure if I would put it above Khan, but Undiscovered Country is one of my favorite Trek movies. An excellent send off to the original crew.

/It eve had Red Foreman as the Federation President
 
2013-04-04 09:36:38 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Quigs: Stile4aly:

I preferred The Undiscovered Country, myself.


And you'd be right. Khan was great. Undiscovered Country was Greater.

This. Not sure if I would put it above Khan, but Undiscovered Country is one of my favorite Trek movies. An excellent send off to the original crew.

/It eve had Red Foreman as the Federation President


Also Sisko's father and Odo as Starfleet officers.
 
2013-04-04 09:45:51 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?


The DS9 ending was great.

The movies were mostly some psycho pissed off villain out for revenge for something or other. The trailers for the new movie don't dispute this.
 
2013-04-04 10:21:50 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Your_Huckleberry: By the way, I saw/read the final moments of the Eureka ending predicted all over the place, dead on. Maybe I need to watch the pilot again but did they show something before? I mean, there were so many compleatly accurate predictions of that last sequence, it was like people off the show were posting them.

If you'll recall in the pilot, Sheriff Carter and Zoe drove by what Zoe swore was themselves driving out of town. Mind you at that time it still looked like young Zoe, but they still passed by themselves leaving the town.


Ah-ha. Like I said, need to watch the pilot again. Figured it had to be something like that to generate such hyper accurate predictions.
 
2013-04-04 10:45:17 PM  

Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

The movies were mostly some psycho pissed off villain out for revenge for something or other. The trailers for the new movie don't dispute this.


Not only doesn't dispute, the trailers indicate re-enforcement. Two lines from Kirk jump out at me: one is where he says he doesn't know what to do.( seriously? I mentioned this in another thread, but for the life of me....i cannot picture Shatner uttering that line)
And two, Adm. Frank Murphy tells Kirk that Starfleet doesn't exist for his revenge, which Kirk replies that maybe it should.
So Roddenberry's vision went from a " Peacekeeping Armada" to an instrument for Revenge in two movies? Didn't Roddenberry hate the military conspiracy elements of The Undiscovered Country? Whether I agree with him or not, I doubt he'd appreciate that revenge driven peacekeeping armada deal.

I've read multiple posts/opinions/what have you that an episode like Balance Of Terror should be made into a movie. "Come on! Das Boot in space!"
Never happen. Fantastic episode, they'd never risk a hundred mill budget on a Bottle...Movie.
 
2013-04-04 11:00:23 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: I've read multiple posts/opinions/what have you that an episode like Balance Of Terror should be made into a movie. "Come on! Das Boot in space!"
Never happen. Fantastic episode, they'd never risk a hundred mill budget on a Bottle...Movie


It would be an interesting experiment. A bottle movie could likely be done relatively cheap. Getting back to basics on a Star Trek movie could easily make back what it costs and then some. It would also go a long way towards helping the franchise.
 
2013-04-04 11:05:11 PM  

Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.


Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.


Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."
 
2013-04-04 11:11:02 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."


I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.
 
2013-04-05 12:01:26 AM  

uknesvuinng: Car_Ramrod: That's like debating which Kardashian is the best.

Garak, obviously.


I don't think I ever had a strong emotional response to him, but his sarcasm always made me smirk.
 
2013-04-05 12:11:39 AM  

zarberg: uknesvuinng: Car_Ramrod: That's like debating which Kardashian is the best.

Garak, obviously.

I don't think I ever had a strong emotional response to him, but his sarcasm always made me smirk.


Garak's character, specifically his past, was supposed to be a bit of a mystery to the viewers. It was slowly uncovered over time; though is character didn't really come to life until the end of the show.
 
2013-04-05 12:11:51 AM  
THE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
 
2013-04-05 12:32:14 AM  

OceanVortex: THE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!


Yes.

Gul Madred is best Kardashian.
 
2013-04-05 12:52:41 AM  
That site's color scheme really messed up my eyeballs. Anyone else?

Oh, and yes, there needs to be a new Trek TV series because what Abrams is doing looks like a parody.

/ I will go see Into Darkness anyway.
 
2013-04-05 01:01:25 AM  
Back in the day, Star Trek meant something:
img339.imageshack.us
Now?  It's just Iron Man, meets Twilight,
in SPAAAAAAACE

/thanks JJ
 
2013-04-05 01:25:44 AM  
Star Wars was about shiat blowing up. Star Trek was never supposed to be. It was a hit-and-miss endeavor, but ultimately the show was about ideas.

If I were writing a Star Trek movie script, the first restriction I'd give myself would be: No explosions.
 
2013-04-05 01:54:29 AM  

NeoCortex42: AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."

I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.


Having recently gone back and watched Seasons 1-4 again, I disagree with this conventional wisdom.  The first season is better than people want to give it credit for, because of the studio cajoling JMS into replacing O'Hare with Boxleitner.  "Soul Hunter", "Parliament of Dreams", and "The War Prayer" are as good as any given episode during the heart of the show's run.  "Mind War", "Signs and Portents", and "Babylon Squared" all do a great job of building the series-wide plot arcs.  And people completely forget "Believers" was a first-season episode.  I think it's up there with some of the best individual sci-fi episodes of that era, right up there with "The Coming of Shadows", TNG's "Inner Light", DS9's "The Visitor", X-Files' "Final Repose"...hell, I'll even add "A Hole in the World" to that short list.

Oh, and to defend the pilot - "The Gathering" was nominated for a Hugo (Best Dramatic Presentation - the standard category for movies and TV) in 1994.  In the history of that category, after the original Star Trek series got eight episodes nominated in three years, only four television programs even got nominated - Six Million Dollar Man, Cosmos, Martian Chronicles, and Next Generation.  And the year "The Gathering" got nominated, it was up against Jurassic Park and Nightmare Before Christmas (FWIW, Groundhog Day also got a nomination that year).  And keep in mind, it wasn't until 2003 that the Hugo committee finally differentiated between long and short form.  And I'd say to get put on the same short list as those three movies is pretty significant.
 
2013-04-05 03:09:55 AM  

NeoCortex42: AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."

I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.


But if you don't watch the first season you will probably be slightly aloof about a few things that happen latter.  I would also add that the final season might as well not exist.  Some of the movies are ok, and the spinoff was terrible.
 
2013-04-05 07:41:06 AM  
Translation: Someone make a TV show so I can have a job.
 
2013-04-05 09:07:15 AM  

Blue_Blazer: NeoCortex42: AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."

I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.

But if you don't watch the first season you will probably be slightly aloof about a few things that happen latter.  I would also add that the final season might as well not exist.  Some of the movies are ok, and the spinoff was terrible.


I'm rewatching as well, and yes, Season 1 has some clunkers, but it's not as bad as some people will tell you. Still a ton of stuff happening, and being set up.
 
2013-04-05 09:33:32 AM  
i.imgur.com

"Ron, get in the house."
 
2013-04-05 10:17:25 AM  

uknesvuinng: Car_Ramrod: That's like debating which Kardashian is the best.

Garak, obviously.


Damn, I need a replicator for this screen.

/Tenagra, when the walls fell (a personal favourite as I found the "universal translator" concept far too convenient).
 
2013-04-05 10:19:58 AM  

Mytch: Translation: Someone make a TV show so I can have a job.


If they ever brought Star Trek back to TV, he would be the man for the job. The man knows how to make good Star Trek and he knows how to make an exciting serial TV space opera (except for the ending...ugh!).
  It would be incredibly expensive to make a modern Star Trek show that matches the visual style and action of the Abrahms movies, but BSG looked pretty damn good and that was years ago. And they're gonna need something to compete with the tidal wave of Star Wars and Marvel coming from Disney and ABC.
 If Abrahms is done with Trek, I say give it to Moore.

/LL&P
 
2013-04-05 10:38:49 AM  

NeoCortex42: AliceBToklasLives: Mugato: AliceBToklasLives: TNG ended well.  What else?

The DS9 ending was great.

Oh sure the final season was terrific.  I'm just referring to the way matters were resolved in the final episode.

Stile4aly: TNG ended well.  What else?

Babylon 5.

Yeah, that's been on my "to see" list for some years now - I realize this is like a film buff saying "I haven't seen Casablanca."

I'm sure you've already heard it, but the pilot movie is really bad and aside from a few episodes, the first season isn't much better. Season 2 picks up in quality quickly, though.


I liked the first season. Yes, it gets so much better seasons 2-4, but the first season had so much charm to them. There was a raw, frenetic energy to those episodes because they were trying really hard to make something new and different. I love how everything is crowded and messy and a biatchaotic. By the time you get to the fifth season, things are a lot cleaner and polished.

The best part about the first season is the fact that they were already building to something that wouldn't pay off for 2-3 years, and back then that was unheard of on television. That first season, I just thought it was another science fiction show on a space station, and that was the trap. By the end of season 2, I realize that this is something entirely different and I was hooked from then on. And yes, that final episode still holds up as one of the all time best final episodes, not just in science fiction, but television.

If you've never seen the show, just start watching it and avoid any and all spoilers.
 
2013-04-05 11:09:41 AM  
NeoCortex42:

unscrwed.com

The only thing I can see in that pic is how freakishly long Patrick Stewart's right arm is.

And now you can't unsee it either.
 
2013-04-05 11:36:59 AM  

Quigs: Stile4aly:

I preferred The Undiscovered Country, myself.


And you'd be right. Khan was great. Undiscovered Country was Greater.


I recently reqatched Khan for the first time since my early teens.  I was underwhelmed, looks like I know what to check out next.
 
2013-04-05 12:36:54 PM  

TelemonianAjax: Quigs: Stile4aly:

I preferred The Undiscovered Country, myself.


And you'd be right. Khan was great. Undiscovered Country was Greater.

I recently reqatched Khan for the first time since my early teens.  I was underwhelmed, looks like I know what to check out next.


I was actually a little unimpressed by Undiscovered Country the first time I saw it, but have grown to appreciate more and more as time goes on. The only other Trek movie that seems to get better for me is Insurrection. Really, the only thing about Star Trek 6 that bugs me is the scene where the Enterprise is sneaking across the Klingon border and Uhura is scrambling to find the correct phrasing to fool the listening outpost out of a Klingon dictionary. I kinda figured that a senior officer like her, longtime communications officer of one of Starfleet's most decorated ships, would know the language of what was then the Federation's enemy. Hell, the re-boot Uhura and Hosi off Enterprise sure as hell did.
 
2013-04-05 01:10:15 PM  
Your_Huckleberry:  Really, the only thing about Star Trek 6 that bugs me is the scene where the Enterprise is sneaking across the Klingon border and Uhura is scrambling to find the correct phrasing to fool the listening outpost out of a Klingon dictionary. I kinda figured that a senior officer like her, longtime communications officer of one of Starfleet's most decorated ships, would know the language of what was then the Federation's enemy.

That's the joke jpg.
 
2013-04-05 02:39:17 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: The only other Trek movie that seems to get better for me is Insurrection.


Insurrection gets more flak than it should. I think it is because fundamentally it's a "small" picture, which doesn't play so well in a theater. At home, on DVD or Blu-ray, it's fine, and if it was considered as "just" an episode of TNG rather than a major motion picture experience, it would be much higher regarded.
 
2013-04-05 03:41:53 PM  

flaminio: Your_Huckleberry: The only other Trek movie that seems to get better for me is Insurrection.

Insurrection gets more flak than it should. I think it is because fundamentally it's a "small" picture, which doesn't play so well in a theater. At home, on DVD or Blu-ray, it's fine, and if it was considered as "just" an episode of TNG rather than a major motion picture experience, it would be much higher regarded.



I think the problem with Insurrection is that the people they were trying to help were assholes. They were squatting on a planet with life giving radiation or whatever and they refused to share it with anyone. And we were supposed to sympathise with them, just because Picard was trying to hit one of them.
 
2013-04-05 05:42:17 PM  

Mugato: flaminio: Your_Huckleberry: The only other Trek movie that seems to get better for me is Insurrection.

Insurrection gets more flak than it should. I think it is because fundamentally it's a "small" picture, which doesn't play so well in a theater. At home, on DVD or Blu-ray, it's fine, and if it was considered as "just" an episode of TNG rather than a major motion picture experience, it would be much higher regarded.


I think the problem with Insurrection is that the people they were trying to help were assholes. They were squatting on a planet with life giving radiation or whatever and they refused to share it with anyone. And we were supposed to sympathise with them, just because Picard was trying to hit one of them.


Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.
There was Troi's remark about "why is the Federation helping these people?" meaning the Son'a
before the secret plan is revealed. I think more effort should have been to get the idea across of how damaging the war was to the Federation, that dire circumstances forced them to work with someone they normally would look down their noses at. Only to find out the people were even worse than they thought, cue a righteous speech from Picard about abandoning thier principles.
And maybe throw in a mention of Worf losing his wife, or a question about why the fleet's most advanced ship and super experienced crew is running diplomatic missions or heading to archaeological digs where there's a bloody war going on, lose Riker steering the Enterprise with a joystick....those would've helped.
Still, far superior movie to Nemesis.
 
2013-04-05 06:14:28 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.


Didn't catch that in DS9. But yeah, it should have been a full out war movie with the Dominion. JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek.
 
2013-04-06 11:26:43 AM  

Mugato: Your_Huckleberry: Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.

Didn't catch that in DS9. But yeah, it should have been a full out war movie with the Dominion. JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek.


I didn't catch the reference the first time I saw it, but did when I re-watched DS9 on Netflix. Very short exchange between Dumar and Weyoun about moving forces to help the Son'a defend their "white' production facilties. Dumar even asks if the Son'a are capable of defending themselves and Weyoun shakes his head that they are not.

JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek

Yeah, looks that way.
 
2013-04-07 06:35:36 AM  

Old enough to know better: I thought that way too. At least until Voyager came along.


And then Enterprise.  The level of potential squandered on both shows by Berman/Braga is simply mindblowing.

Mugato: Your_Huckleberry: Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.

Didn't catch that in DS9. But yeah, it should have been a full out war movie with the Dominion. JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek.


Disagree.  What JJ showed is that what people want is an unabashed vilian who will stop at literally nothing to achieve whatever end.  High concept can facilitate that, but frankly an action movie that tugs the heart strings wins over high concept every time.

I can promise you he had 95% of every theater with one line, "I'm not going to be there."
 
2013-04-08 02:51:50 PM  

Jarhead_h: Old enough to know better: I thought that way too. At least until Voyager came along.

And then Enterprise.  The level of potential squandered on both shows by Berman/Braga is simply mindblowing.

Mugato: Your_Huckleberry: Insurrection should have been more about the Dominion War, I think. The idea of Picard risking so much to help the squatters would have been easier to believe if more had been made about the Son'a being allies of the Dominion, as referenced in DS9.

Didn't catch that in DS9. But yeah, it should have been a full out war movie with the Dominion. JJ Abrams showed us that shiat blowing the fark up is what people want in their Trek.

Disagree.  What JJ showed is that what people want is an unabashed vilian who will stop at literally nothing to achieve whatever end.  High concept can facilitate that, but frankly an action movie that tugs the heart strings wins over high concept every time.

I can promise you he had 95% of every theater with one line, "I'm not going to be there."


Is the reboot the only one you've seen? The type of villain you describe is in Nemesis, insurrection, First Contact, Generations, The Undiscovered Country, The Search For Spock and The Wrath Of Khan. Nero wasn't anything new or groundbreaking, I happened to like the character, but let's not pretend he re-invented anything. I can recall more than one review that thought Nero was an underwhelming villain.
And yes, the first scene was good. But as for heart strings, I didn't think they were able to come close to that emotional impact the rest of the film-not even when Vulcan was destroyed.
 
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