Well, looks like his career is sunk.

I'm not an Armstrong supporter but I do have empathy for the fact that it is going to get so he can't compete in anything -- no tris, nothing. That's gotta be hell for an elite athlete. His whole identity is farked.

Next stop, dancing with the stars.

Hey Lance, no one likes you anymore.  Find something else to do.

Janusdog: I'm not an Armstrong supporter but I do have empathy for the fact that it is going to get so he can't compete in anything -- no tris, nothing. That's gotta be hell for an elite athlete. His whole identity is farked.

I'm okay with this.

Seriously, I used to be a big supporter of him. Frankly, I don't give a shiat that he doped, they were all doping at the time. He was the best of the dopers - kudos to him.

This prick went out of his way to ruin people's lives in order to keep his image alive. fark Lance, right in the ass with a seat post wrapped in a rusty bike chain.

Janusdog: I'm not an Armstrong supporter but I do have empathy for the fact that it is going to get so he can't compete in anything -- no tris, nothing. That's gotta be hell for an elite athlete. His whole identity is farked.

That's because he chose to fark over ANYONE who questioned him. Every time someone said "Lance doped and I have proof," he and his lawyers absolutely destroyed them and their lives. No one should have any empathy for him for that.

There is always that celebrity high-diving show.

/assuming it hasn't been canceled yet

desertgeek: Janusdog: I'm not an Armstrong supporter but I do have empathy for the fact that it is going to get so he can't compete in anything -- no tris, nothing. That's gotta be hell for an elite athlete. His whole identity is farked.

That's because he chose to fark over ANYONE who questioned him. Every time someone said "Lance doped and I have proof," he and his lawyers absolutely destroyed them and their lives. No one should have any empathy for him for that.

Yes, you guys are right. I think I'm just projecting. I had a martial arts career ending SLAP tear and I'm not even pro. It was awful to lose my sport.

I heard they put special chemicals in the pool so that if you pee in it and you have steroids in your system the water turns green.

Frankly, that's bullshiat.  Master's swimming gives exactly 0 farks about doping/cheating, or at least it didn't up until right now.  As stated in TFA, Master's swimming in the US doesn't fall under the umbrella of any doping agency, AND Armstrong's lifetime ban was specific to cycling.

I'm not saying this in support of Lance, but as a former swimmer myself (and someone familiar with Master's swimming).  FINA has basically only nominal jurisdiction over US Master's swimming, which they never exercise.  For example, swimsuits that are illegal in NCAA and FINA-sponsored competitions are totally ok in Master's.  So the fact that they're suddenly taking an interest is unusual.  Armstrong was certainly a bully and a cheater, but it's not ok to go around expanding someone's punishment arbitrarily after they've already been convicted.

Unless I'm missing something and a lifetime ban from cycling also somehow includes swimming, or his punishment was a lot less specific than I thought.

Janusdog: desertgeek: Janusdog: I'm not an Armstrong supporter but I do have empathy for the fact that it is going to get so he can't compete in anything -- no tris, nothing. That's gotta be hell for an elite athlete. His whole identity is farked.

That's because he chose to fark over ANYONE who questioned him. Every time someone said "Lance doped and I have proof," he and his lawyers absolutely destroyed them and their lives. No one should have any empathy for him for that.

Yes, you guys are right. I think I'm just projecting. I had a martial arts career ending SLAP tear and I'm not even pro. It was awful to lose my sport.

Fair enough. If he was just guilty of doping and didn't do all the character assassination that he did, I'd be inclined to agree with you because of all the doping that went on in the sport. But that's not the case and frankly, he deserves everything he gets from here on out.

They won't let Lance compete?  That's nuts, er nut!

HMS_Blinkin: Armstrong was certainly a bully and a cheater, but it's not ok to go around expanding someone's punishment arbitrarily after they've already been convicted.

Sure it is - they're a private organization and there's no reason they have to allow world-renowned douchebags in their competitions if they don't want to.

/not that they prohibit douchebags from entering, but there's nothing wrong with not letting a dude in just because "f*ck that guy"

IAmRight: Sure it is - they're a private organization and there's no reason they have to allow world-renowned douchebags in their competitions if they don't want to.

/not that they prohibit douchebags from entering, but there's nothing wrong with not letting a dude in just because "f*ck that guy"

I disagree.  We live in a society of rules.  We expect individuals to follow those rules, but we also expect authority to follow its own set of rules in laying out punishments.  FINA is being arbitrary (or even pernicious) in its sudden interest in Master's swimming, something about which it had 0 farks to give until yesterday.

Look, I wouldn't be saying any of this if FINA had previously made any effort to enforce its own rules on Master's swimming, but they haven't.  Even if Lance was a bully (and he was), it doesn't give FINA the right to be---organizations and governing bodies need to be held to a higher standard.

Lost Thought 00: There is always that celebrity high-diving show.

/assuming it hasn't been canceled yet

That show is kind of awesome (but still bad, I admit...). As a long-time swimmer who occasionally went off the board for lol's, it hurts like *hell* if you land badly even from 1 m. A friend of mine trained for a week for one meet; she had little stippled bruises all over. So it is impressive watching them go off 5 m and try these dives. Suh smacked his face on the bottom of the pool, hilarious.

\brain pickled in chlorine for future use

HMS_Blinkin: IAmRight: Sure it is - they're a private organization and there's no reason they have to allow world-renowned douchebags in their competitions if they don't want to.

/not that they prohibit douchebags from entering, but there's nothing wrong with not letting a dude in just because "f*ck that guy"

I disagree.  We live in a society of rules.  We expect individuals to follow those rules, but we also expect authority to follow its own set of rules in laying out punishments.  FINA is being arbitrary (or even pernicious) in its sudden interest in Master's swimming, something about which it had 0 farks to give until yesterday.

Look, I wouldn't be saying any of this if FINA had previously made any effort to enforce its own rules on Master's swimming, but they haven't.  Even if Lance was a bully (and he was), it doesn't give FINA the right to be---organizations and governing bodies need to be held to a higher standard.

I think the basic reasoning is this:
Armstrong is banned by USADA (US Anti-Doping Agency). As a member of the WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency), it means that the USADA ban is now supported by any agency or sport affiliated with WADA. That is why the IOC took his medal from the Sydney Olympics. It is why he can't race anywhere on a bike in any sanctioned event. It is why he can't compete in triathlons. The bottom line is that a ban is a ban on all sporting events affiliated with WADA worldwide. So Lance won't be competing at the Australian Tennis Open either.

I'm not an expert when it comes to FINA or US Masters swimming. But the legal types at FINA probably see that US Masters swimming is under the FINA umbrella - even if it is remote and no one really enforces anything. But if someone was to make a fuss about Armstrong competing in the swim meet, then it is possible the drama could be escalated to FINA who technically oversee US Masters swimming. And if all that were to happen, then FINA is up for all sorts of potential legal drama from WADA and USADA. And frankly, who needs that just so some douchebag doping cyclist can get in the pool with a bunch of Masters swimmers?

/just my opinion

basemetal: [assets.thehollywoodgossip.com image 628x204]

Go home and think about what you've done, Lance!

That's one ugly couch.

HMS_Blinkin: Frankly, that's bullshiat.  Master's swimming gives exactly 0 farks about doping/cheating, or at least it didn't up until right now.  As stated in TFA, Master's swimming in the US doesn't fall under the umbrella of any doping agency, AND Armstrong's lifetime ban was specific to cycling.

I'm not saying this in support of Lance, but as a former swimmer myself (and someone familiar with Master's swimming).  FINA has basically only nominal jurisdiction over US Master's swimming, which they never exercise.  For example, swimsuits that are illegal in NCAA and FINA-sponsored competitions are totally ok in Master's.  So the fact that they're suddenly taking an interest is unusual.  Armstrong was certainly a bully and a cheater, but it's not ok to go around expanding someone's punishment arbitrarily after they've already been convicted.

Unless I'm missing something and a lifetime ban from cycling also somehow includes swimming, or his punishment was a lot less specific than I thought.

Once again, inflammatory headline doesn't match the actual facts.

The Headline - Lance Armstrong return to competitive sport blocked by authorities

The actual article - Fina, world swimming's ruling body, has asked the organisers of a masters event in Texas this weekend to bar Lance Armstrong from making what would be the banned cyclist's return to competitive sport.

So Fina can raise all the stink that they want, but they have no authority to prevent Armstrong's participation, and Masters Swimming's director basically told them, "You have a problem with Armstrong? File a formal grievance, then we'll talk."

puckrock2000: So Fina can raise all the stink that they want, but they have no authority to prevent Armstrong's participation, and Masters Swimming's director basically told them, "You have a problem with Armstrong? File a formal grievance, then we'll talk."

1. This national competition is under the jurisdiction of the US Masters Swimming;

2. FINA Rule DC 15.1 states:

"Subject to the right to appeal provided in DC 13, the Testing, therapeutic use exemptions and hearing results or other final adjudications of any Signatory to the Code which are consistent with the Code and are within the Signatory's authority, shall be recognised and respected by FINA and its Member Federations.(...)"
Therefore, FINA wrote a letter to the US Masters Swimming (with copy to US Aquatic Sports and USA Swimming) requesting not to accept the entry of Mr. Lance Armstrong in the above mentioned competition.

To which they would have said, 'Ok, sure.' So he withdrew. Mission accomplished. Dude doesn't deserve to compete. Not because he's a serial cheater. But because he's a huge jerk who went way out of his way to blackball people who wouldn't support his lie.

Boston Kiwi: HMS_Blinkin: IAmRight: Sure it is - they're a private organization and there's no reason they have to allow world-renowned douchebags in their competitions if they don't want to.

/not that they prohibit douchebags from entering, but there's nothing wrong with not letting a dude in just because "f*ck that guy"

I disagree.  We live in a society of rules.  We expect individuals to follow those rules, but we also expect authority to follow its own set of rules in laying out punishments.  FINA is being arbitrary (or even pernicious) in its sudden interest in Master's swimming, something about which it had 0 farks to give until yesterday.

Look, I wouldn't be saying any of this if FINA had previously made any effort to enforce its own rules on Master's swimming, but they haven't.  Even if Lance was a bully (and he was), it doesn't give FINA the right to be---organizations and governing bodies need to be held to a higher standard.

I think the basic reasoning is this:
Armstrong is banned by USADA (US Anti-Doping Agency). As a member of the WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency), it means that the USADA ban is now supported by any agency or sport affiliated with WADA. That is why the IOC took his medal from the Sydney Olympics. It is why he can't race anywhere on a bike in any sanctioned event. It is why he can't compete in triathlons. The bottom line is that a ban is a ban on all sporting events affiliated with WADA worldwide. So Lance won't be competing at the Australian Tennis Open either.

I'm not an expert when it comes to FINA or US Masters swimming. But the legal types at FINA probably see that US Masters swimming is under the FINA umbrella - even if it is remote and no one really enforces anything. But if someone was to make a fuss about Armstrong competing in the swim meet, then it is possible the drama could be escalated to FINA who technically oversee US Masters swimming. And if all that were to happen, then FINA is up for all sorts of potential legal drama from WADA ...

That explanation is much too rational for Fark.

Well done.

The guy has some serious ball to try and compete professionally in any sport.

HMS_Blinkin: Look, I wouldn't be saying any of this if FINA had previously made any effort to enforce its own rules on Master's swimming, but they haven't.

And you are sure they have not? Do you know of another instance in which a high-profile known serial doper competed in their events, they were aware of it, and did nothing?

Even if Lance was a bully (and he was), it doesn't give FINA the right to be--

Strongly disagree. If making an example out of bullies who made a career out of making a mockery of fair competition isn't the purpose of having ruling bodies, what is?

organizations and governing bodies need to be held to a higher standard.

I'd say they are off to a good start by not allowing Lance Armstrong to bring his sideshow to their sport. And you know damn well he didn't train clean - why should they put up with him?

Boston Kiwi: I think the basic reasoning is this:
Armstrong is banned by USADA (US Anti-Doping Agency). As a member of the WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency), it means that the USADA ban is now supported by any agency or sport affiliated with WADA. That is why the IOC took his medal from the Sydney Olympics. It is why he can't race anywhere on a bike in any sanctioned event. It is why he can't compete in triathlons. The bottom line is that a ban is a ban on all sporting events affiliated with WADA worldwide. So Lance won't be competing at the Australian Tennis Open either.

I'm not an expert when it comes to FINA or US Masters swimming. But the legal types at FINA probably see that US Masters swimming is under the FINA umbrella - even if it is remote and no one really enforces anything. But if someone was to make a fuss about Armstrong competing in the swim meet, then it is possible the drama could be escalated to FINA who technically oversee US Masters swimming. And if all that were to happen, then FINA is up for all sorts of potential legal drama from WADA and USADA. And frankly, who needs that just so some douchebag doping cyclist can get in the pool with a bunch of Masters swimmers?

/just my opinion

That's probably about right.  I agree there's a lot of possible drama---of course there is.  As far as I understand FINA rules, though, they aren't required to accept doping bans from other sports---they can CHOOSE to, but they aren't required to do so.  They are, however, entitled to drug test him every time he swims, which IMO would be the appropriate course of action here.

My salty, chlorinated tears, let me show them to you.

HMS_Blinkin: They are, however, entitled to drug test him every time he swims, which IMO would be the appropriate course of action here.

So he'd dope to the gills for training to get an edge. Then he'd wean himself off for a few days, microdose/test, microdose/test, microdose/test until he knew he'd pass, then he'd hop out of the van and walk in to the locker room while claiming to be clean as a whistle. Do I think he'd cheat for an amateur competition with no money on the line? Absolutely.

JohnBigBootay: And you are sure they have not? Do you know of another instance in which a high-profile known serial doper competed in their events, they were aware of it, and did nothing?

For serious doping?  Not off the top of my head.  But US Master's swimming is much more lenient than most existing FINA standards for some of the "borderline" doping and "supplements" that aren't legal in NCAA and international competition.  Master's is also the only major swimming organization to look the other way on illegal swimsuits like the LZR.

Strongly disagree. If making an example out of bullies who made a career out of making a mockery of fair competition isn't the purpose of having ruling bodies, what is?

To my knowledge, Lance Armstrong never made a mockery of fair competition in this particular sport.  I've never heard of anyone being banned from every sport for infractions in one sport before.  Did Pete Rose get banned from swimming as well as baseball?

I'd say they are off to a good start by not allowing Lance Armstrong to bring his sideshow to their sport. And you know damn well he didn't train clean - why should they put up with him?

FINA's rules make it clear that they can drug test athletes as often as they want.  They can test him every time he gets out of the water.  My problem with all of this is that it feels like he's getting convicted multiple times for the same crime.  I'm as disillusioned and mad at him as the next farker, and I realize that this isn't a criminal justice issue, but I have a strong aversion to double jeopardy, and this incident smells to me like he's punished multiple times for one crime.  Bottom line: "because he's a douche" is not a sufficient reason to set aside existing notions of justice.

He should just discover Tampax.

HMS_Blinkin: I've never heard of anyone being banned from every sport for infractions in one sport before.  Did Pete Rose get banned from swimming as well as baseball?

Sure you have. Runners who test positive at, say, a track event in the Olympics would also be banned from doing a field event.

Pete Rose didn't get banned for something which is illegal across other sports as well, nor did he try to compete in swimming, so we'd never know.

Lance Armstrong isn't allowed to compete in competitive exercise for a while. He'll live. He's still allowed to swim - just not for money.

basemetal: [assets.thehollywoodgossip.com image 628x204]

Go home and think about what you've done, Lance!

I hope the syringes are also framed with the jersey.

HMS_Blinkin: FINA's rules make it clear that they can drug test athletes as often as they want. They can test him every time he gets out of the water. My problem with all of this is that it feels like he's getting convicted multiple times for the same crime. I'm as disillusioned and mad at him as the next farker, and I realize that this isn't a criminal justice issue, but I have a strong aversion to double jeopardy, and this incident smells to me like he's punished multiple times for one crime.

I just see it differently. Call it one crime if you want but he committed it many, many times and plenty of others suffered for it. However outsized you are considering the backlash I'd say lemond, Andreu, SCA promotions etc. ad nauseum would not yet feel equity has been achieved.

Bottom line: "because he's a douche" is not a sufficient reason to set aside existing notions of justice.

Meanwhile, knowing someone cheated to win is plenty sufficient reason to expect they'd have to forfeit the cash they acquired from having done so yet he has not. He can put a big pile of that on his fancy bed and roll around on it while he's not swimming in competitions.

JohnBigBootay: basemetal: [assets.thehollywoodgossip.com image 628x204]

Go home and think about what you've done, Lance!

That's one ugly couch.

lulz......awesome.

Awwww shiat, does that mean we won't be seeing him on Dancing with the Stars?

Greg LeMond sheds a very, very small tear.

theorellior: Greg LeMond sheds a very, very small tear.

I'm 99.99% sure LeMond doped too.

I'm pretty sure every TDF winner in the last 30 years has doped in one way or another.

IAmRight: Sure you have. Runners who test positive at, say, a track event in the Olympics would also be banned from doing a field event.

Track and field is one sport.  There is no more difference between the 100m and the 200m than the 100m and discus in this type of situation.

HMS_Blinkin: To my knowledge, Lance Armstrong never made a mockery of fair competition in this particular sport. I've never heard of anyone being banned from every sport for infractions in one sport before. Did Pete Rose get banned from swimming as well as baseball?

However, this was still a common practice back when there was a difference between pro and amateur.  Jim Thorpe had his Olympic medals stripped for playing professional baseball.  Once you were deemed pro in any sport, you were pro for all.

He should join the WWE. He can call himself "The One Nut Wonder" and come out to the ring on a bike. His finisher would be called the "Tour De Lance".

Better yet, how about TNA? That's where all the burnouts end up.

Whatthefark: He should join the WWE. He can call himself "The One Nut Wonder" and come out to the ring on a bike. His finisher would be called the "Tour De Lance".

Better yet, how about TNA? That's where all the burnouts end up.

So what's his TNA name?  Vance Strongarm?  Is he part of Aces and Eights?

JohnBigBootay: HMS_Blinkin: FINA's rules make it clear that they can drug test athletes as often as they want. They can test him every time he gets out of the water. My problem with all of this is that it feels like he's getting convicted multiple times for the same crime. I'm as disillusioned and mad at him as the next farker, and I realize that this isn't a criminal justice issue, but I have a strong aversion to double jeopardy, and this incident smells to me like he's punished multiple times for one crime.

I just see it differently. Call it one crime if you want but he committed it many, many times and plenty of others suffered for it. However outsized you are considering the backlash I'd say lemond, Andreu, SCA promotions etc. ad nauseum would not yet feel equity has been achieved.

Bottom line: "because he's a douche" is not a sufficient reason to set aside existing notions of justice.

Meanwhile, knowing someone cheated to win is plenty sufficient reason to expect they'd have to forfeit the cash they acquired from having done so yet he has not. He can put a big pile of that on his fancy bed and roll around on it while he's not swimming in competitions.

These are good points.  I dunno, I guess I'm seeing this situation through the lens through which I've always viewed US Master's swimming, and it's just a super-chill and lenient organization that doesn't bother much with rules if they can avoid it.  Granted, Armstrong's various crimes are of a different order of magnitude, but they're also in another sport.  I guess it just seems to me that "justice" means that enforcement and punishment procedures are the same for everyone, and it's not "justice" to make exceptions, even in the case of unusually bad people.

It's the same reason that I think the Gitmo detainees deserve legit trials----even though they're (mostly if not all) terrorist assholes, we still can't stoop to making exceptions in our own justice system just because they're bad guys.

bacongood: Track and field is one sport.  There is no more difference between the 100m and the 200m than the 100m and discus in this type of situation.

They also wouldn't be allowed in other events.

HMS_Blinkin: These are good points. I dunno, I guess I'm seeing this situation through the lens through which I've always viewed US Master's swimming, and it's just a super-chill and lenient organization that doesn't bother much with rules if they can avoid it.

For me it's like this: Leave these people alone Armstrong. They didn't ask for your bullshiat and they don't deserve to have to deal with it.

It's the same reason that I think the Gitmo detainees deserve legit trials----even though they're (mostly if not all) terrorist assholes, we still can't stoop to making exceptions in our own justice system just because they're bad guys.

Oh absolutely. I'm a huge 'better that ten guilty men go free' kind of guy. But this isn't a criminal proceding. It's a litigious multimillionaire high functioning pschyopath pestering a bunch of amateur 40+ swimmers. He has a pool or three - he should stick to peeing in them. Competing in amateur athletic competitions is a privilege, not a right.

Next thing you know, he'll be banned from breathing.

HMS_Blinkin: Frankly, that's bullshiat.  Master's swimming gives exactly 0 farks about doping/cheating, or at least it didn't up until right now.  As stated in TFA, Master's swimming in the US doesn't fall under the umbrella of any doping agency, AND Armstrong's lifetime ban was specific to cycling.

I'm not saying this in support of Lance, but as a former swimmer myself (and someone familiar with Master's swimming).  FINA has basically only nominal jurisdiction over US Master's swimming, which they never exercise.  For example, swimsuits that are illegal in NCAA and FINA-sponsored competitions are totally ok in Master's.  So the fact that they're suddenly taking an interest is unusual.  Armstrong was certainly a bully and a cheater, but it's not ok to go around expanding someone's punishment arbitrarily after they've already been convicted.

Unless I'm missing something and a lifetime ban from cycling also somehow includes swimming, or his punishment was a lot less specific than I thought.

It looks like a USADA power play to me.  They may have pressured FINA by threatening to double down on their dickish behavior.

IAmRight: bacongood: Track and field is one sport.  There is no more difference between the 100m and the 200m than the 100m and discus in this type of situation.

They also wouldn't be allowed in other events.

Yes -because all the events are one sport.

Not various different sports as you implied.