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(Mother Jones)   Remember the school shooting in 2010 at Hastings Middle School in Minnesota that left six students dead? Me either. But if you do, the National Rifle Association would REALLY like you to corroborate the story they apparently pulled out of their ass   (motherjones.com) divider line 390
    More: Asinine, Hastings Middle School, NRA, Minnesota, school shootings, Columbine High School, Dennis Van Roekel  
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16432 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Apr 2013 at 1:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-04 02:42:45 PM

Fat Bobcat: Meanwhile, the President claims the Newtown shooting was done with a "fully automatic weapon" (ctrl+f it), actually correcting himself from the term semi automatic.

/but that's just an honest slip up, unlike this, where the NRA is out to prove that full length windows kill people, for some reason.


Worth repeating, imo.
 
2013-04-04 02:43:03 PM

blindio: The idea that the US Military would enslave us in some socialist dystopia were it not for a bunch of hillbillies with semi automatic rifles is the biggest fantasy you will ever tell yourself.  Your Red Dawn wet dreams aside, there is already a massive training and equipment gap between a genuine military unit and the good ole' boys 363rd that meets as Scullie's bar to talk about the good old days when they played jr. varsity football.  If that was really the goal of the government, you've already lost.


I know, it's such a stupid argument.  It's not guns that protect you from an overarching government, its YOU.  It's the people.  It's elections.  It's the news, the internet, the spread of information.  The ability for citizens to band together, to protest, to speak their minds.  Your guns don't protect you from a tyrannical government.  Certainly not from the nation with the most powerful military in the world.  You could completely take away the second amendment from the constitution and it would have no effect on the formation of the United States into a socialist, enslaving, and tyrannical regime.  That may have not been true half a century ago, but i certainly believe its true now.
 
2013-04-04 02:43:07 PM

maxx2112: You're absolutely right. This is the kind of error that should have been caught in proof reading and fact checking. However, it's not the overt act of lying and fabrication of facts that some in this thread are making it out to be.


Just let the gun control crowd have this one. By my count it seems to be the only thing they have had going for them since Newtown. Let them celebrate. Don't try to deny them their victory.
 
2013-04-04 02:43:39 PM
Haven't read whole thread, so not sure if someone else already posted this, but here's recent evidence that the problem exists on both sides - the President of the United States, the leader of the push for more stringent gun control laws, does not know or is mixed up about elementary distinctions between firearms. As someone did point out early, the cherry-picking and fact-distortion occurs on both sides. I'm also willing to give both sides a good-faith chance to correct honest mistakes - people get mixed up and sometimes aren't as careful as they should be. Tolerance for an honest attempt at correcting misinformation is vital if we are to really work together on these issues. Will the NRA retract its statement in the face of evidence otherwise? Will Obama admit that maybe he needs to read a few basic dictionary entries before he pushes sweeping legislation of items that he is apparently startlingly ignorant about?

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/04/obama-newtown-children-killed-with -f ully-automatic-weapon/

Or maybe we're just finding out something new about Newtown.

/I believe Obama knows the difference between a semi and fully-automatic weapon, just for the record. But, an intentional attempt to mislead is deplorable. An honest mistake is another thing - as long as he corrects it.
 
2013-04-04 02:44:21 PM

Rabbitgod: Mrtraveler01: It's easy to mistake "broke through a school window and killed 6 students" from "was subdued by school authorities before any shots broke out"

For Godsakes, the truth backs up the point they were trying to make and they still had to resort to lying?!?!

The report recommends removing vulnerable windows from classrooms, then as an example of what vulnerable means, cites a window being shot thru, so in other words pretty much all the windows in any school. Now I know school admins, and local school boards can be dumb, but I doubt even they would do something as dumb as brick up all the windows of a school and replace all the doors with solid steel monstrosities that look like they belong in a prison.

So what does that leave if a school wants to comply with NRA recommendations? Ballistic glass, gee I wonder if any of the people who make ballistic give money to the NRA and provide input on NRA "safety" reports.


Reminds me of this:

SALESMAN
Looks like you called me just in time. (He pockets several things from the living room.) This home isn't secure at all.
HOMER
What did I tell ya, Marge?
SALESMAN
Intruders could come down the chimney, through the mail slot, even hidden in your groceries. Did you change the locks when you moved in? I thought not. All the previous owners of this house could still be in here somewhere.
MARGE
What do you recommend?
SALESMAN
Well, a lot of companies would put in a pretty system that looks good, but doesn't provide any real protection.
HOMER
Oh, let's get that.
SALESMAN
...But if you want to sleep easy at night, I recommend sealing off every door and window with bullet-proof Lucite.
MARGE
Wouldn't we all suffocate?
SALESMAN
(laughing) Well, I should hope not.
HOMER
Let's get that - the suffocation thing.
 
2013-04-04 02:45:46 PM

Giltric: Have you posted any pictures of slain children yet today?


Want some? They are very plentiful and easy to find, so it really isn't a problem. I particularly enjoy the local ones with all the little kids who were killed by stray bullets while in their own homes. Too bad they weren't armed so they could shoot back. The neighborhood could have gotten together to negotiate a bulk deal on child coffins.
 
2013-04-04 02:47:45 PM

quiotu: Antimatter: Further discussion on this topic is pointless: the guns rights folks won.  The occasional violent robbery, massacre, rape or murder is just the price we are going to have to accept.

This is the part I'd love to see all gun nuts just flat out say. There's undeniable proof that guns cause more homicides and suicides, and removing guns from the equation greatly diminishes both. I would like the gun nuts and the NRA just say that their hobby greatly affects the death toll in their country, but they're okay with it. I'd hate their opinion, but I'd respect it more than this hiding behind the Constitution BS.


I've been saying it since Newtown and have been called cold hearted because of it.

Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.
 
2013-04-04 02:47:52 PM

Giltric: Wadded Beef: Take away emotion and gun sales plummet control has nothing left to be based upon.

FTF everyone.


Well, except for the whole shot-up-school thingies and dead kids.
 
2013-04-04 02:49:10 PM

Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.


Freedom from what, overcrowding?
 
2013-04-04 02:50:07 PM

Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.


So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!
 
2013-04-04 02:50:21 PM

GameSprocket: Giltric: Have you posted any pictures of slain children yet today?

Want some? They are very plentiful and easy to find, so it really isn't a problem. I particularly enjoy the local ones with all the little kids who were killed by stray bullets while in their own homes. Too bad they weren't armed so they could shoot back. The neighborhood could have gotten together to negotiate a bulk deal on child coffins.


Were they shot with their drug dealer father (lol like he is in the picture) or uncles gat?

I have a thing for those.

Are they white?
 
2013-04-04 02:52:01 PM

Wadded Beef: Giltric: Wadded Beef: Take away emotion and gun sales plummet control has nothing left to be based upon.

FTF everyone.

Well, except for the whole shot-up-school thingies and dead kids.


That's just playing to emotion. It's not like those kids were contributing to society. In fact, the Newport school district now has a better teacher/student ratio. You'll be glad for our freedom when King George invades and the only thing between you and eel pie as a dietary staple is a group of rugged patriots with assault rifles.
 
2013-04-04 02:52:06 PM
Before this started I considered myself staunchly pro-gun.  The gun doesn't kill anyone.  It's a tool, surely no more dangerous than any other.  I should say that I work with guns.  I'm around firearms every single day.  I've fired assault rifles on fully automatic.  I've fired boxes of fifty cal and walked away shouting "that was farking awesome!"

I don't understand the endgame.  To arm teachers or resource officers or whatever you want to call them is pure folly.  Adding guns to a situation doesn't help, definitely not in a school.  Teachers for one are demonized on a regular basis as lazy, union slugs, except now the NRA wants them armed?  The resource officer, hopefully a retired cop or military, but otherwise a volunteer?  What kind of qualifications do we expect these people to maintain?  How much range time must they put in.  Their bullets HAVE to count.  Can we count on them to pull the trigger when it matters?  What happens if they get shot and another working firearm and ammunition is introduced into the situation?  Who's liable if a child gets shot by an NRA defender engaged in a crossfire?

All of these questions have to be answered.  I agree with imposing as little hardship on people as possible, but we need to think about some difficult questions.  Criminals don't typically use hunting rifles.  They want small, cheap, disposable guns.  Handguns, sawed off shotguns and the like.  How can we limit guns from ending up in the wrong hands, or if we can't, what are we going to do about it?
 
2013-04-04 02:53:30 PM

Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!


Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?
 
2013-04-04 02:53:54 PM

FlashHarry: National
Rampage
Association


Simple, self-righteous and ignorant.  You win.
 
2013-04-04 02:54:12 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mrtraveler01: Keizer_Ghidorah: I'm on both sides of this issue, but we can all agree that SOMETHING needs to be done that ISN'T either taking all the guns away (which is NEVER going to happen, no matter how much people conspiracy theorize about it) or turning every home, business, and factory into a prison-fortress. I've posted a list I've made of things that can be done many times before that doesn't include either of those, but someone always shoots them all down because of money or time or because they think they're stupid, so apparently I'm the only one who stands in the middle ground.

I'm not sure if I'm in the same group as you but I think bans are the wrong answer. We just need to beef up regulation on how these purchases are being made and be better able to track where these guns are going.

But of course suggesting that is the equivalent of repealing the 2nd Amendment even though I don't want to take guns away from any law-abiding citizen.

I'll put up the list I thought up, let's see if I can remember all of them.

* A drastic reshaping of our prison system so it actually rehabilitates and helps criminals return to society instead of being a for-profit system that works by imprisoning as many people as possible.
* A drastic reshaping of the War on Drugs policy, or just ending it altogether.
* Fix everything Reagan broke with the mental health care system.
* Tackle the root factors of crime like poverty.
* Do a better job of keeping an eye on known offenders who are free.
* Do a better job curtailing gangs and other groups, along with more and better youth programs to keep them out of gangs.
* Better tracking of all firearms' sales and ownership.
* Develop technology that prevents a gun from being used by anyone but its registered owner, like a fingerprint scanner.


* Not sure how that helps people who are on the YOLO plan--some people don't want to "reform"
* How about I get my civil liberties back first?  States where I can smoke weed but if I want to use a 5.56 mm semiauto as a varmit rifle I'm a total gun nut and dangerous makes me sad.
* Absolutely!  Also everything broken by every President, Congress, and state legislature since.
* By...?  We tried throwing money at the problem, didn't work.  It just made people better at maximizing what they could get out of the system.
* How about we start by not letting people out who are career criminals with no intention of reforming?  Probation should be harder to get, not easier.
* Agreed.
* Fine for the legal weapons, but what happens to all the ones that are not in the system or are in the system but get stolen?  You are creating a whole lot of paperwork, but to what end?
* Nope and here's why.  Not every place is always 59+ degrees year round.  If I'm wearing gloves because it's cold, what good is my Glock that I have tucked in my pocket using your technology?  "Pardon me sir, I know you claim to have a gun in your pocket and you want my wallet but would have mind terribly if I take my glove off so I can activate my handgun?"  There's other very common scenarios where the whole finger print scanner thing goes horribly wrong, but you get the idea.
 
2013-04-04 02:55:25 PM
Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?


Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.
 
2013-04-04 02:55:26 PM

Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?


If we can't trust a farker who is in to dead kiddie porn to not forge documentation, who can we trust?
 
2013-04-04 02:56:09 PM

Wook: FlashHarry: National
Rampage
Association

Simple, self-righteous and ignorant.  You win.


reconstitution.us
 
2013-04-04 02:56:28 PM

keenerb: Fat Bobcat: Meanwhile, the President claims the Newtown shooting was done with a "fully automatic weapon" (ctrl+f it), actually correcting himself from the term semi automatic.

/but that's just an honest slip up, unlike this, where the NRA is out to prove that full length windows kill people, for some reason.

Worth repeating, imo.


Ah, I see I was beaten to the point. At least twice. Good.
 
2013-04-04 02:56:44 PM
Guns should be like printers.  Cheap and available.

Bullets should be like printer refills, making the price of platinum look cheap by comparison.
 
2013-04-04 02:58:13 PM

BitwiseShift: Guns should be like printers.  Cheap and available.

Bullets should be like printer refills, making the price of platinum look cheap by comparison.


Same thing will happen to bullets that happened to printers.  People will just refill rounds themselves.
 
2013-04-04 02:58:19 PM

Generic Republican: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?

Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.


I like this idea.
 
2013-04-04 02:59:10 PM

GameSprocket: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

Freedom from what, overcrowding?


Rights...freedoms....like freedom of speech.

Would you abandon it if it would have saved this girls life?
Her name was Eden Wormer.

media.katu.com

How about this girl...her name was Phoebe Prince. Would you sacrifice your right to free speech if it would bring her back?

i.usatoday.net


I wouldn't. But thats me.
 
2013-04-04 02:59:26 PM

bigfatfattyfatfat: From - http://www.guns.com/2013/04/03/nra-funded-school-shield-task-force-un v eils-safety-recommendations-put-armed-guards-in-schools-video/

"However, Hutchinson also noted that no school should be forced to hire a school resource officer (sworn police officer(s) who work in school districts) or train a member of the faculty or staff on how to use a firearm. The bulk of the<a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.nraschoolshield.com/"> 225-page report expands the concepts of how to deter, detect, delay and respond to a threat like a shooter or shooting."

Wow, what a bunch of whackjobs.


They don't want sworn police officers because armed rent-a-cops in almost 100,000 public schools is basically a full employment program for NRA members (most of whom couldn't pass the tests to be proper police officers.)

Meanwhile, 100,000 more cops means 100,000 more EVUL ARMED GUBMINT MEN COMING TO TAKE ARE GUNZ AWAY!!!
 
2013-04-04 03:01:14 PM

Generic Republican: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?

Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.



Does that 24 hour period start when I get back to PA after spending a month in Florida or Wyoming? Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?
 
2013-04-04 03:01:34 PM

GAT_00: Another day, another set of lies from gun advocates.  Shocking.


Isn't that stereotyping?  I thought that was bad...
 
2013-04-04 03:02:15 PM

jaytkay: Wook: FlashHarry: National
Rampage
Association

Simple, self-righteous and ignorant.  You win.

[reconstitution.us image 423x327]


True, they really should stop training the police.
 
2013-04-04 03:04:29 PM

jaytkay: Wook: FlashHarry: National
Rampage
Association

Simple, self-righteous and ignorant.  You win.

[reconstitution.us image 423x327]


Citation in regards to his membership?

Warrants served on his home showed a certificate for a pistol safety course and his mother also had a certificate. CT state law states you must take a safety course before purchasing a pistol. No NRA membership documentation was found.

To date there has been no evidence that he was a member of the NRA....can you provide any?
 
2013-04-04 03:06:14 PM

Giltric: jaytkay: Wook: FlashHarry: National
Rampage
Association

Simple, self-righteous and ignorant.  You win.

[reconstitution.us image 423x327]

Citation in regards to his membership?

Warrants served on his home showed a certificate for a pistol safety course and his mother also had a certificate. CT state law states you must take a safety course before purchasing a pistol. No NRA membership documentation was found.

To date there has been no evidence that he was a member of the NRA....can you provide any?


It was right there on the Brady Campaign front page! ;-)
 
2013-04-04 03:06:34 PM
By not supporting the Universal Background check and ensuring mentally ill don't get their hands on weapons, some out there sully the purity of the intent of the 2nd Amendment, destroying the innocence of our children with violence by being Soft on Crime, and recklessly providing unchecked gun sales at gun shows to terrorists and gang-bangers.
 
2013-04-04 03:07:08 PM

Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?

Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.


Does that 24 hour period start when I get back to PA after spending a month in Florida or Wyoming? Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?


Excellent point.  However as a responsible gun owner you would obviously store your firearms in an alarmed locked gun safe and have a neighbor or friend check on the weapons daily while you are away.  Perhaps a business venture where vacationing gun owners could check their weapons into a gun hotel?
 
2013-04-04 03:08:26 PM

Giltric: GameSprocket: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

Freedom from what, overcrowding?

Rights...freedoms....like freedom of speech.

Would you abandon it if it would have saved this girls life?
Her name was Eden Wormer.

[media.katu.com image 405x304]

How about this girl...her name was Phoebe Prince. Would you sacrifice your right to free speech if it would bring her back?

[i.usatoday.net image 490x445]


I wouldn't. But thats me.


Are you implying that gun ownership is how we progress as a society? Because that is what the First Amendment gives us. Or, are you trying to say that gun victims commit suicide by throwing themselves into bullets?

Your apple still looks like an orange to me.
 
2013-04-04 03:09:08 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: By not supporting the Universal Background check and ensuring mentally ill don't get their hands on weapons, some out there sully the purity of the intent of the 2nd Amendment, destroying the innocence of our children with violence by being Soft on Crime, and recklessly providing unchecked gun sales at gun shows to terrorists and gang-bangers.


Sources?  And not ones that Uncle Sam let through on purpose ;-)
 
2013-04-04 03:09:31 PM

dv-ous: They don't want sworn police officers because armed rent-a-cops in almost 100,000 public schools is basically a full employment program for NRA members (most of whom couldn't pass the tests to be proper police officers.)

Meanwhile, 100,000 more cops means 100,000 more EVUL ARMED GUBMINT MEN COMING TO TAKE ARE GUNZ AWAY!!!



Almost half of the schools in the US already have armed and unarmed security guards. Some places like Detroit, NYC, Philly, Baltimore etc...all have their own school police force that patrol the schools and provide security including shake downs....I mean searches. All have to be acredited police officers as if they were working for the city PD.
 
2013-04-04 03:10:07 PM
Giltric:

Does that 24 hour period start when I get back to PA after spending a month in Florida or Wyoming? Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?

Nah.  You're supposed to have a security system that stabs you in the right eyeball the instant your home shotgun is stolen while you're sound asleep and scratching yourself in California.  This will result in you reflexively dialing the police in your home city and screaming obscenities in their ears while blood drips out from under the sharp spike.
 
2013-04-04 03:11:19 PM

GameSprocket: Giltric: GameSprocket: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

Freedom from what, overcrowding?

Rights...freedoms....like freedom of speech.

Would you abandon it if it would have saved this girls life?
Her name was Eden Wormer.

[media.katu.com image 405x304]

How about this girl...her name was Phoebe Prince. Would you sacrifice your right to free speech if it would bring her back?

[i.usatoday.net image 490x445]


I wouldn't. But thats me.

Are you implying that gun ownership is how we progress as a society? Because that is what the First Amendment gives us. Or, are you trying to say that gun victims commit suicide by throwing themselves into bullets?

Your apple still looks like an orange to me.


Actually he makes a good point.  Rights are rights.  If the Aurora victims could be brought back at the cost of your right to vote, would you bring them back?  You have a right, enshrined in the Constitution to own firearms, just like you have a right to vote and a right to free speech.
 
2013-04-04 03:11:58 PM

Generic Republican: Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?

Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.


Does that 24 hour period start when I get back to PA after spending a month in Florida or Wyoming? Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?

Excellent point.  However as a responsible gun owner you would obviously store your firearms in an alarmed locked gun safe and have a neighbor or friend check on the weapons daily while you are away.  Perhaps a business venture where vacationing gun owners could check their weapons into a gun hotel?



Okay...make the alarmed, 3 inch thick battleship steel safes free too like transfers and background checks. I wouldn't want poor people to be excluded from having rights.

Why would I want a neighbor or friend or family to keep an eye on them......aren't most crimes committed by someone that is known to you?
 
2013-04-04 03:12:21 PM

GameSprocket: Giltric: GameSprocket: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

Freedom from what, overcrowding?

Rights...freedoms....like freedom of speech.

Would you abandon it if it would have saved this girls life?
Her name was Eden Wormer.

[media.katu.com image 405x304]

How about this girl...her name was Phoebe Prince. Would you sacrifice your right to free speech if it would bring her back?

[i.usatoday.net image 490x445]


I wouldn't. But thats me.

Are you implying that gun ownership is how we progress as a society? Because that is what the First Amendment gives us. Or, are you trying to say that gun victims commit suicide by throwing themselves into bullets?

Your apple still looks like an orange to me.


The Constitution gives and grants nothing to citizens.  It grants power to the government, but guarantees the rights of citizens.  It's pretty dangerous to think otherwise.
 
2013-04-04 03:12:40 PM

Mrtraveler01: Here is what actually happened in Hastings, MN:

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/89924847.html?refer=y

Why the NRA had to lie about this and say that 6 people died  when the actual truth backs up the case they were trying to make is beyond me.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/670907-133630146-nra-s-nation al -school-shield-report.html#document/p1/a97899

/for those not wanting to read Mother Jones


Yes But Diana DeGette has clearly never fired a gun therefore this didn't happen also consider the concept of the multiverse where this did happen.
 
2013-04-04 03:15:34 PM

Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?

Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.


Does that 24 hour period start when I get back to PA after spending a month in Florida or Wyoming? Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?

Excellent point.  However as a responsible gun owner you would obviously store your firearms in an alarmed locked gun safe and have a neighbor or friend check on the weapons daily while you are away.  Perhaps a business venture where vacationing gun owners could check their weapons into a gun hotel?


Okay...make the alarmed, 3 inch thick battleship steel safes free too like transfers and background checks. I wouldn't want poor people to be excluded from having rights.

Why would I want a neighbor or friend or family to keep an eye on them......aren't most crimes committed by someone that is known to you?


All I gathered from this is that gun owners do not want to be responsible for their own guns.

Is this correct?
 
2013-04-04 03:16:28 PM
I think rights and freedoms are all well and good until bad things happen.
Then we should reconsider them because no one wants bad things.
 
2013-04-04 03:17:52 PM

Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?

Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.


Does that 24 hour period start when I get back to PA after spending a month in Florida or Wyoming? Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?

Excellent point.  However as a responsible gun owner you would obviously store your firearms in an alarmed locked gun safe and have a neighbor or friend check on the weapons daily while you are away.  Perhaps a business venture where vacationing gun owners could check their weapons into a gun hotel?


Okay...make the alarmed, 3 inch thick battleship steel safes free too like transfers and background checks. I wouldn't want poor people to be excluded from having rights.

Why would I want a neighbor or friend or family to keep an eye on them......aren't most crimes committed by someone that is known to you?


Price of freedom.  I can get criminally charged if I lose my rifle or even a single round.  I'm not going to descend into pedantry.  You have a right to own a firearm, but you also have the obligation to care for and secure that weapon.
 
2013-04-04 03:18:17 PM

GameSprocket: Giltric: GameSprocket: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

Freedom from what, overcrowding?

Rights...freedoms....like freedom of speech.

Would you abandon it if it would have saved this girls life?
Her name was Eden Wormer.

[media.katu.com image 405x304]

How about this girl...her name was Phoebe Prince. Would you sacrifice your right to free speech if it would bring her back?

[i.usatoday.net image 490x445]


I wouldn't. But thats me.

Are you implying that gun ownership is how we progress as a society? Because that is what the First Amendment gives us. Or, are you trying to say that gun victims commit suicide by throwing themselves into bullets?

Your apple still looks like an orange to me.


No I am implying that firearms ownership is an inalienable, enumerated right, and that rights are not something you erase over emotion or polling.

I believe it is the keystone that allows you to keep all your other rights it is the last box you turn too when the soap, ballot and jury box fail.

Freedom is a little messy...and the alternative is no freedom. Do you enjoy your freedoms? They were bought and paid for via the gun.

Maybe next time you can fight for your own freedoms using a poem...let me know how that turns out.
 
2013-04-04 03:19:02 PM

Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?

Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.


Does that 24 hour period start when I get back to PA after spending a month in Florida or Wyoming? Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?

Excellent point.  However as a responsible gun owner you would obviously store your firearms in an alarmed locked gun safe and have a neighbor or friend check on the weapons daily while you are away.  Perhaps a business venture where vacationing gun owners could check their weapons into a gun hotel?


Okay...make the alarmed, 3 inch thick battleship steel safes free too like transfers and background checks. I wouldn't want poor people to be excluded from having rights.

Why would I want a neighbor or friend or family to keep an eye on them......aren't most crimes committed by someone that is known to you?

All I gathered from this is that gun owners do not want to be responsible for their own guns.

Is this correct?


How about as responsible as the police?
 
2013-04-04 03:20:02 PM

Giltric: jaytkay: Wook: FlashHarry: National
Rampage
Association

Simple, self-righteous and ignorant.  You win.

[reconstitution.us image 423x327]

Citation in regards to his membership?

Warrants served on his home showed a certificate for a pistol safety course and his mother also had a certificate. CT state law states you must take a safety course before purchasing a pistol. No NRA membership documentation was found.

To date there has been no evidence that he was a member of the NRA....can you provide any?


Whatever, I don't spend my days playing Internet sleuth to split hairs.

Adam Lanza was a typical "responsible gun owner", until the day he murdered a bunch of children.
 
2013-04-04 03:20:18 PM

Generic Republican: Actually he makes a good point. Rights are rights. If the Aurora victims could be brought back at the cost of your right to vote, would you bring them back? You have a right, enshrined in the Constitution to own firearms, just like you have a right to vote and a right to free speech.


I would have had the right to own slaves at one time as well. Are we a less-free country now that we can't own slaves? Also, why is it the gun nuts try to equate removing the first amendment with any kind of restriction on the second amendment. I have news for everyone, you have no rights that are not abridged in some form.
 
2013-04-04 03:20:39 PM

Giltric: Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?


You're supposed to maximally secure your firearm using the most cost effective means available factoring into your cost-benefit calculation that liability can be imposed without fault. That's the idea of strict liability, and it works.

You can think of it as a less intrusive, more enforceable version of a non-variable duty to inventory your firearms daily. Which is a perfectly reasonable, constitutionally permissible duty the state can impose.

Want to maintain your firearms rights? Keep track of your firearms every day. It really is that simple!
 
2013-04-04 03:20:45 PM

Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Generic Republican: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Freedom is a little messy at times....would you like citations.

So we should just settle for these shootings?

No, we can't do anything like strengthen background checks and keep better track of who buys a gun! Because that restricts freedom somehow!

Give me access to the database so I don't have to involve a thrid party who will charge me for a F2F transfer and  make the background check and transfer free, and keep no records of the transaction...ie no registry....let me keep my own transfer records to prove I sold a gun or purchased one legitimately.

Deal?

Deal.  One caveat   Your gun goes missing and you don't report it within a 24 hour period, you are barred from owning firearms for life.


Does that 24 hour period start when I get back to PA after spending a month in Florida or Wyoming? Or am I supposed to be psychic and know someone has stolen my firearms while I am away?

Excellent point.  However as a responsible gun owner you would obviously store your firearms in an alarmed locked gun safe and have a neighbor or friend check on the weapons daily while you are away.  Perhaps a business venture where vacationing gun owners could check their weapons into a gun hotel?


Okay...make the alarmed, 3 inch thick battleship steel safes free too like transfers and background checks. I wouldn't want poor people to be excluded from having rights.

Why would I want a neighbor or friend or family to keep an eye on them......aren't most crimes committed by someone that is known to you?

All I gathered from this is that gun owners do not want to be responsible for their own guns.

Is this correct?


Subsidize it if you want more of it.......Tax it if you want less of it.

You want more safety? Pay me.
 
2013-04-04 03:21:13 PM

Generic Republican: You have a right, enshrined in the Constitution to own firearms, just like you have a right to vote and a right to free speech.


All "things" are identical to all other "things."
Especially Republicans.
 
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