slat1040: I am all for making schools more secure (windows, locks, controlling entrance...etc.) But given that a centerpiece of their security plan is arming Staff and Volunteers, I cringe. Having been a teacher and knowing the type of staff and others that would junp at the chance to volunteer, they would be the ones I would worry the most about!
Virtue: I find the NRA more credible than anything a gun control advocate has ever said.
Antimatter: Further discussion on this topic is pointless: the guns rights folks won. The occasional violent robbery, massacre, rape or murder is just the price we are going to have to accept.
Mrtraveler01: Tricky Chicken: This may be a brilliant tactic if they want to publicize the "was subdued" angle.They wanted to publicize the importance of having police officers on school campus, which in this case, there was a police officer who did subdue the shooter before anything happened.Tricky Chicken: If they think the media is out to get them by making a big deal about their inaccuracies, they may be pushing a story they want by intentionally reporting it inaccurately.Are they trolling the media and getting their message out at the same time?It wouldn't surprise me if this was the NRA's actual strategy.
Giltric: neversubmit: fuhfuhfuh: Both sides of the current gun debate seem to enjoy resorting to appeals to emotion, slippery slopes and outright fabrications to try to defend their positions. Doesn't make either side right, or make either side look like they are anything but knee-jerk reactionaries.Which side has a body count?The side with all the gun free zones that people keep getting murdered in because they are not allowed to defend themselves with equal force.
Mrtraveler01: iheartscotch: Sooooooo, when does the NRA get preferred status, like ACORN got?/ it's not wrong when we do it!How retro!What does "preferred status" mean anyway?
doubled99: Heh. Lot of butthurt MJ subscibers here, I see.i guess Fox News will no longer be bashed here since they have often reported factual information with sources.
TheSelphie: Mrtraveler01: Here is what actually happened in Hastings, MN:http://www.startribune.com/local/east/89924847.html?refer=yWhy the NRA had to lie about this and say that 6 people died when the actual truth backs up the case they were trying to make is beyond me.http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/670907-133630146-nra-s-nation al -school-shield-report.html#document/p1/a97899/for those not wanting to read Mother JonesYeah, that's what gets me. It doesn't make sense for them to lie about it. If they really wanted to cite a real example of a school shooting where someone killed other people, it's not like it's never happened before. I just don't get what they hoped to gain by making shiat up.
Bravo Two: Antimatter: Further discussion on this topic is pointless: the guns rights folks won. The occasional violent robbery, massacre, rape or murder is just the price we are going to have to accept.Guns cause rape and violent robbery? Wat?
factoryconnection: royone: That might carry more weight in a different thread. One that isn't using Mother Jones as a source, for example.sodomizer: "Mother Jones" is not a known source of factual news.doubled99: Mother Jones, huh?I guess we'll be linking to National Review next. Oh, wait...Fair enough, but MoJo was nice enough to link to their source. What was I saying about an echo chamber?
arentol: It is interesting how quick and effective the anti-gun folks are at finding errors with NRA statements while being completely incapable of recognizing that lies, cherry-picking statistics, and appeals to emotion are literally the only thing their side does.The hypocrisy of it all is beyond ridiculous.
doubled99: i guess Fox News will no longer be bashed here since they have often reported factual information with sources.They do?No, I was just kidding. Every single word ever spoken on the network is a complete lie, made up by their evil corporate rulers and their paid shills.
sodomizer: "Mother Jones" is not a known source of factual news.
Mrtraveler01: It's easy to mistake "broke through a school window and killed 6 students" from "was subdued by school authorities before any shots broke out"For Godsakes, the truth backs up the point they were trying to make and they still had to resort to lying?!?!
Mrtraveler01: Here is what actually happened in Hastings, MN:http://www.startribune.com/local/east/89924847.html?refer=yWhy the NRA had to lie about this and say that 6 people died when the actual truth backs up the case they were trying to make is beyond me.http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/670907-133630146-nra-s-nation al -school-shield-report.html#document/p1/a97899/for those not wanting to read Mother Jones
Giblet: Bravo wants bad people to stop being bad, but Bravo, likely a liberal, has no problem solving skills and lacks the vocabulary to express Bravo's desires. So, Bravo cites things that Bravo has been told bad people use when they do bad things: guns, knives, posturing, and sluts. Bravo wants those gone. When they're gone, bad people have no alternative; they must now be good people.
keenerb: So sounds like they simply conflated two separate incidents in Minnesota; the indian reservation shooting and that Hastings incident.Hardly seems like that big of a deal.
iheartscotch: If you guys what sensible, intelligent, bi- paritizan reforms on guns; the president should issue a pledge to not take away guns from law-abiding citizens
lostcat: Thought experiment:All civilian-owned firearms (registered and unregistered) vanish overnight, along with the capabilities to manufacture or import more from other sources.What does the remainder of the year look like...- Dramatic decrease in the number of homicides (homicides involving other weapons increase slightly)- Decrease in the number of robberies and assaults- Increase in the number of crime victims fighting their attackers- Small percentage of the population forced to buy meat- Small percentage of the population forced to find other hobbies (e.g. archery)- Gun dealers, manufacturers and factory works forced to seek new employment- Gun nuts forced to fixate on cars, watches, knives and other "macho" artifactsOh yeah...- U.S. government uses its military to enslave its citizens as socialist workers, ensuring the demise of the U.S. economy at a time when most communist and socialist countries are beginning to embrace some form of capitalism (ha ha)Again, just a thought experiment to consider what guns do for us.I ultimately believe people should have the right to own guns, and think most proposed gun-control legislation is window dressing. But I also think the U.S. has some serious issues, and multiple murders are a symptom, not the problem.
maxx2112: FTFA: For example, in 2010 a 16-year-old attacker killed six people hiding in a locked classroom in Hastings Middle School in Minnesota by shooting and subsequently stepping through a tempered glass window that ran vertically alongside the classroom door. Horrifying-except it never happened.And later in TFA: It's possible that the episode in question may have been a mix-up; its footnote cites a news story covering both the incident at Hastings Middle School and the massacre at Red Lake Senior High School five years prior, in which a teen assailant killed seven and injured five before committing suicide. But whatever the case, the bad info shows that the NRA is unreliable when it comes to assessing mass gun violence.It never happened, except that it did happen, just somewhere else, and with more dead and injured. By conflating two actual events, the NRA is engaging in fear and fantasy, the 2nd amendment is automatically expunged, and everyone at the NRA has to send an apology letter to James Brady.
GameSprocket: Giblet: <stupidity deleted>Please, continue to dazzle us with your vast critical thinking skills.
fuhfuhfuh: Giltric: neversubmit: fuhfuhfuh: Both sides of the current gun debate seem to enjoy resorting to appeals to emotion, slippery slopes and outright fabrications to try to defend their positions. Doesn't make either side right, or make either side look like they are anything but knee-jerk reactionaries.Which side has a body count?The side with all the gun free zones that people keep getting murdered in because they are not allowed to defend themselves with equal force.Thank you both for proving my point so well.
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