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(Mother Jones)   Remember the school shooting in 2010 at Hastings Middle School in Minnesota that left six students dead? Me either. But if you do, the National Rifle Association would REALLY like you to corroborate the story they apparently pulled out of their ass   (motherjones.com) divider line 390
    More: Asinine, Hastings Middle School, NRA, Minnesota, school shootings, Columbine High School, Dennis Van Roekel  
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16433 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Apr 2013 at 1:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-04 12:09:39 PM  
If a "fact" comes from the NRA, chances are that it isn't a fact at all.
 
2013-04-04 12:16:26 PM  
National
Rampage
Association
 
2013-04-04 01:11:25 PM  
Another day, another set of lies from gun advocates.  Shocking.
 
2013-04-04 01:14:28 PM  
Credibility is flexible when you're addressing an echo chamber.  I am always thrown when someone, columnists often, begins an address with a big, whopper of a lie or warping of the truth, because if they follow it up with what I had previously thought to be true, I then start questioning what I thought about it.  As in, these assholes ruin otherwise perfectly-good facts by using them to support a fallacious claim.

Now, when I point that out, people in the target audience of the writer squeal because I'm stuck on "small details" and whatnot.  It is somewhat scary at times... and no, I don't just see this among republicans.  I do see it a lot among republicans, though.
 
2013-04-04 01:15:50 PM  
Huh, I'm surprised that they're using liberal tactics.
 
2013-04-04 01:16:16 PM  
I find the NRA more credible than anything a gun control advocate has ever said.
 
2013-04-04 01:16:39 PM  
Leave the NRA alone!!!  The big babies just get upset when anyone suggests that there might be a better, more responisble way to deal with their toys.
 
2013-04-04 01:17:14 PM  
It's easy to mistake "broke through a school window and killed 6 students" from "was subdued by school authorities before any shots broke out"

For Godsakes, the truth backs up the point they were trying to make and they still had to resort to lying?!?!
 
2013-04-04 01:18:28 PM  

Molavian: Huh, I'm surprised that they're using liberal tactics.


Potato/10
 
2013-04-04 01:18:36 PM  
Just stepping through a tempered glass window? They should think twice before employing Mac Charlie and the crazy hijinks that follows them.
 
2013-04-04 01:18:56 PM  
FTA: "That's a less useful story for the NRA, though, whose modus operandi is to call for more guns by appealing to fear and fantasy."

fear and fantasy
fear and fantasy
FEAR AND FANTASY


Isn't that what the entire "rational discussion about firearms" consists of?
 
2013-04-04 01:19:46 PM  

factoryconnection: Credibility is flexible when you're addressing an echo chamber.  I am always thrown when someone, columnists often, begins an address with a big, whopper of a lie or warping of the truth, because if they follow it up with what I had previously thought to be true, I then start questioning what I thought about it.  As in, these assholes ruin otherwise perfectly-good facts by using them to support a fallacious claim.

Now, when I point that out, people in the target audience of the writer squeal because I'm stuck on "small details" and whatnot.  It is somewhat scary at times... and no, I don't just see this among republicans.  I do see it a lot among republicans, though.


You know who else talked about big lies being easier to spread than little lies...
 
2013-04-04 01:19:51 PM  

factoryconnection: Credibility is flexible when you're addressing an echo chamber.


That might carry more weight in a different thread. One that isn't using Mother Jones as a source, for example.
 
2013-04-04 01:20:00 PM  
Personally, I think the saddest thing about the whole mess is how easily one could make up a school shooting without it being instantly questioned, owing to the fact that it happens often enough that one wouldn't instinctively know it's BS. Kind of like the war in Australia...
 
2013-04-04 01:20:01 PM  

Virtue: I find the NRA more credible than anything a gun control advocate has ever said.


That's got to be an incredibly low bar you have.
 
2013-04-04 01:20:34 PM  

Amos Quito: FTA: "That's a less useful story for the NRA, though, whose modus operandi is to call for more guns by appealing to fear and fantasy."

fear and fantasy
fear and fantasy
FEAR AND FANTASY

Isn't that what the entire "rational discussion about firearms" consists of?


Take away emotion and gun sales plummet.
 
2013-04-04 01:20:42 PM  
Mother Jones, huh?
I guess we'll be linking to National Review next. Oh, wait...
 
2013-04-04 01:21:07 PM  
Maybe a staffer will come out and tell us what they really meant like with Evie Hudak who told a woman she would be raped anyway and Diane Degette who told an elderly person they would die anyway or that high cap mags come pre packed with bullets and once fired are no longer usable.
 
2013-04-04 01:21:58 PM  

royone: factoryconnection: Credibility is flexible when you're addressing an echo chamber.

That might carry more weight in a different thread. One that isn't using Mother Jones as a source, for example.


doubled99: Mother Jones, huh?
I guess we'll be linking to National Review next. Oh, wait...


Shoot the messenger in a gun thread... LOL
 
2013-04-04 01:22:23 PM  
I think it's funny how these threads always bring new trolls just out of the woodwork.  It's almost as if backing up the NRA and shouting down their critics is their only reason for being here.  Strange, no?
 
2013-04-04 01:22:26 PM  

Wadded Beef: Take away emotion and gun sales plummet control has nothing left to be based upon.


FTF everyone.
 
2013-04-04 01:23:01 PM  

doubled99: Mother Jones, huh?
I guess we'll be linking to National Review next. Oh, wait...


They have citations to back up what they're saying though. It's not like the NRA which magically pulls stories otu of their ass.
 
2013-04-04 01:23:33 PM  
"Mother Jones" is not a known source of factual news.
 
2013-04-04 01:24:14 PM  
Sooooooo, when does the NRA get preferred status, like ACORN got?

/ it's not wrong when we do it!
 
2013-04-04 01:24:20 PM  

Amos Quito: FTA: "That's a less useful story for the NRA, though, whose modus operandi is to call for more guns by appealing to fear and fantasy."

fear and fantasy
fear and fantasy
FEAR AND FANTASY

Isn't that what the entire "rational discussion about firearms" consists of?


pretty much. 'let's ban scary looking guns'
 
2013-04-04 01:24:55 PM  

Mrtraveler01: It's easy to mistake "broke through a school window and killed 6 students" from "was subdued by school authorities before any shots broke out"

For Godsakes, the truth backs up the point they were trying to make and they still had to resort to lying?!?!


This may be a brilliant tactic if they want to publicize the "was subdued" angle.

 If they think the media is out to get them by making a big deal about their inaccuracies, they may be pushing a story they want by intentionally reporting it inaccurately.

Are they trolling the media and getting their message out at the same time?
 
2013-04-04 01:25:07 PM  
Both sides of the current gun debate seem to enjoy resorting to appeals to emotion, slippery slopes and outright fabrications to try to defend their positions. Doesn't make either side right, or make either side look like they are anything but knee-jerk reactionaries.
 
2013-04-04 01:25:36 PM  

Amos Quito: FTA: "That's a less useful story for the NRA, though, whose modus operandi is to call for more guns by appealing to fear and fantasy."

fear and fantasy
fear and fantasy
FEAR AND FANTASY

Isn't that what the entire "rational discussion about firearms" consists of?



Hahahaha ZING!

Don't forget the new and improved "Common sense legislation", which takes not one gun out of any criminal's hands.   That's brilliant.
 
2013-04-04 01:25:44 PM  

GleeUnit: I think it's funny how these threads always bring new trolls just out of the woodwork.  It's almost as if backing up the NRA and shouting down their critics is their only reason for being here.  Strange, no?


No, there's just scared little man-children desperately clinging to their guns and religion.
 
2013-04-04 01:25:58 PM  

GleeUnit: I think it's funny how these threads always bring new trolls just out of the woodwork.  It's almost as if backing up the NRA and shouting down their critics is their only reason for being here.  Strange, no?


i thought it was to shout at gun owners about their alleged penis size. it seems to be the only thing gun haters know to say.
 
2013-04-04 01:26:00 PM  
Here is what actually happened in Hastings, MN:

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/89924847.html?refer=y

Why the NRA had to lie about this and say that 6 people died  when the actual truth backs up the case they were trying to make is beyond me.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/670907-133630146-nra-s-nation al -school-shield-report.html#document/p1/a97899

/for those not wanting to read Mother Jones
 
2013-04-04 01:26:39 PM  
For all the Mother Jones haters:

Armed teen terrorizes Hastings Middle School
 
2013-04-04 01:26:46 PM  

iheartscotch: Sooooooo, when does the NRA get preferred status, like ACORN got?

/ it's not wrong when we do it!


How retro!

What does "preferred status" mean anyway?
 
2013-04-04 01:26:50 PM  

fuhfuhfuh: Both sides of the current gun debate seem to enjoy resorting to appeals to emotion, slippery slopes and outright fabrications to try to defend their positions. Doesn't make either side right, or make either side look like they are anything but knee-jerk reactionaries.


Which side has a body count?
 
2013-04-04 01:27:23 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Molavian: Huh, I'm surprised that they're using liberal tactics.

Potato/10


You realize he thinks you rated him "infinity"?
 
2013-04-04 01:27:38 PM  

Mrtraveler01: They have citations to back up what they're saying though


Have you ever read through some of their citations?

It's like an email to Time Cube printed on a cocktail napkin.
 
2013-04-04 01:27:43 PM  
I am all for making schools more secure (windows, locks, controlling entrance...etc.)  But given that a centerpiece of their security plan is arming Staff and Volunteers, I cringe.  Having been a teacher and knowing the type of staff and others that would junp at the chance to volunteer, they would be the ones I would worry the most about!
 
2013-04-04 01:27:46 PM  
The fact that they think they can just make up a school shooting with 6 fatalities just proves that something needs to be done. It happens often enough that the NRA thinks people won't even question them if you don't rember 6 kids getting shot dead.
 
2013-04-04 01:27:49 PM  
They have citations to back up what they're saying though. It's not like the NRA which magically pulls stories otu of their ass.


"This paper contains facts, Charlie. 'Pregnant man gives birth'. That's a fact. And they have the 8th largest circulation in the world, I'll have you know."
 
2013-04-04 01:28:00 PM  

royone: That might carry more weight in a different thread. One that isn't using Mother Jones as a source, for example.


sodomizer: "Mother Jones" is not a known source of factual news.


doubled99: Mother Jones, huh?
I guess we'll be linking to National Review next. Oh, wait...


Fair enough, but MoJo was nice enough to link to their source.  What was I saying about an echo chamber?
 
2013-04-04 01:28:05 PM  
I don't really get putting in the effort of lying and myth making. Just openly state that you own congress and there is jack shiat anyone is going to do about it. Kick over the podium and leave.
 
2013-04-04 01:28:37 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Here is what actually happened in Hastings, MN:

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/89924847.html?refer=y

Why the NRA had to lie about this and say that 6 people died  when the actual truth backs up the case they were trying to make is beyond me.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/670907-133630146-nra-s-nation al -school-shield-report.html#document/p1/a97899

/for those not wanting to read Mother Jones


Yeah, that's what gets me.  It doesn't make sense for them to lie about it.  If they really wanted to cite a real example of a school shooting where someone killed other people, it's not like it's never happened before.  I just don't get what they hoped to gain by making shiat up.
 
2013-04-04 01:28:44 PM  

doubled99: Mother Jones, huh?
I guess we'll be linking to National Review next. Oh, wait...


Irony: Insinuating information is invalid because the source is biased despite the fact they cold-busted another organization blatantly misrepresenting an event that is easily fact-checked.
 
2013-04-04 01:29:24 PM  

neversubmit: fuhfuhfuh: Both sides of the current gun debate seem to enjoy resorting to appeals to emotion, slippery slopes and outright fabrications to try to defend their positions. Doesn't make either side right, or make either side look like they are anything but knee-jerk reactionaries.

Which side has a body count?


The side with all the gun free zones that people keep getting murdered in because they are not allowed to defend themselves with equal force.
 
2013-04-04 01:29:38 PM  

Tricky Chicken: This may be a brilliant tactic if they want to publicize the "was subdued" angle.


They wanted to publicize the importance of having police officers on school campus, which in this case, there was a police officer who did subdue the shooter before anything happened.

Tricky Chicken: If they think the media is out to get them by making a big deal about their inaccuracies, they may be pushing a story they want by intentionally reporting it inaccurately.

Are they trolling the media and getting their message out at the same time?


It wouldn't surprise me if this was the NRA's actual strategy.
 
2013-04-04 01:30:39 PM  

royone: That might carry more weight in a different thread. One that isn't using Mother Jones as a source, for example.


sodomizer: "Mother Jones" is not a known source of factual news.


When you can't actually refute the facts, just badmouth the source of the facts.


www.visi.com
 
2013-04-04 01:30:42 PM  

Mrtraveler01: iheartscotch: Sooooooo, when does the NRA get preferred status, like ACORN got?

/ it's not wrong when we do it!

How retro!

What does "preferred status" mean anyway?


The NRA gets preferred status when it starts making it easier for the "wrong kind of people" to get involved in politics.
 
2013-04-04 01:31:19 PM  

Giltric: Have you ever read through some of their citations?


Yes, I posted two of the citations they used above. (the article from the Star-Tribune and the actual NRA report they released which shows that they lied about the shooting on page 69).

These citations that they used check out.
 
2013-04-04 01:31:28 PM  
Use one way glass, that way you don't know who's looking at you kid.
 
2013-04-04 01:32:26 PM  
Further discussion on this topic is pointless: the guns rights folks won.  The occasional violent robbery, massacre, rape or murder is just the price we are going to have to accept.
 
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