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(Some Guy)   Senator Rockefeller to Carnival Cruise Lines: The Coast Guard spent $4.2 million responding and rescuing you 90 times over five years. When will you pay up? Carnival: Never. It's a "maritime honor" to rescue distressed ships   (skift.com) divider line 233
    More: Stupid, Carnival Cruise Lines, Carnival Corp., Senator Jay Rockefeller, Senator Rockefeller, U.S. Coast Guard, cruise line, Carnival Triumph, Micky Arison  
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11356 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Apr 2013 at 9:43 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-04 10:03:36 AM  

Frank N Stein: DoBeDoBeDo: rescue the people, leave the ship.

Having a derelict ship is not a good thing.

DoBeDoBeDo: Then they won't cost the Coast Guard anything.

It doesn't cost money to send up helicopters, redirect cutters, and provide food/medical services to survivors?


Better sink that hazard once everyone and the Captain are off. That could be dangerous, just bobbing around out there, aimlessly.
 
2013-04-04 10:04:48 AM  
If your garbage scows need rescue more than once every three weeks (on average) then I think your problem is a bit larger than even your passengers.
 
2013-04-04 10:05:00 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: vpb: I don't think the Coast Guard should charge, but there should be enough of a tax on the cruise industry to cover the average cost of responding to their problems.  The money is going to come from somewhere.

You think that the cruise industry doesn't pay taxes?

interesting.


So, instead of pointing out *where* the cruise industry pays it's taxes, and informing the thread, you prefer to play the jackass.

Interesting.
 
2013-04-04 10:05:19 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Simple solution, rescue the people, leave the ship.  Won't be long before all of Carnival's fleet is sitting on the bottom acting as artificial reefs.  Then they won't cost the Coast Guard anything.


Yeah, 'rescuing' 2800 people from a drifting ship should be a cake walk, and cost way less then just towing the ship to a nearby port.

<sarcasm off>
 
2013-04-04 10:06:36 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: DoBeDoBeDo: Simple solution, rescue the people, leave the ship.  Won't be long before all of Carnival's fleet is sitting on the bottom acting as artificial reefs.  Then they won't cost the Coast Guard anything.

Yeah, 'rescuing' 2800 people from a drifting ship should be a cake walk, and cost way less then just towing the ship to a nearby port.

<sarcasm off>


It wouldn't happen twice, versus 90 times in 5 years.

guaranteed
 
2013-04-04 10:06:59 AM  
Maybe we should create a new tradition of barring Carnival ships from US Ports because the pose a safety hazard.

/ that would probably change their response pretty quick
 
2013-04-04 10:07:17 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: vpb: I don't think the Coast Guard should charge, but there should be enough of a tax on the cruise industry to cover the average cost of responding to their problems.  The money is going to come from somewhere.

You think that the cruise industry doesn't pay taxes?

interesting.


Actually they pay next to nothing in taxes since they are based in Panama.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2013/02/16/ship-isnt-th e- only-thing-that-stinks-at-carnival-low-tax-rate-stirs-ire/

Carnival (the Cruise Lines, not the Corporation) is headquartered in Doral, Florida. It is, however, legally incorporated elsewhere, in Panama. That allows the company, under the current Tax Code, to legally avoid paying most U.S. taxes.
 
2013-04-04 10:08:21 AM  

Stranded On The Planet Dumbass: in Houston we pay them to come to the cruise ship pier we built with tax money.
http://www.chron.com/business/article/Port-will-pay-6-7-million-to-l ur e-two-cruise-4051674.php


Small government, ladies and gentlemen.
 
2013-04-04 10:08:29 AM  

Famous Thamas: I understand the point the Senator is trying to make, rescue operations do cost money.  But there does exist a culture of helping other vessels in distress, because you never know when your ship will break down, and you don't want to be the one stranded out there in that big blue wasteland.


Right, if Carnival Ships are an outlier then some form of repayment is to be expected. Or if the overall numbers are increasing for the entire industry a new tax/fee structure should be instituted. But if it's well within historical norms then calm the f*ck down.

For example if your car breaks down on the highway and a cop stops by to help, you don't get a bill from the state, but if you are breaking down every day you know they are going to do something about your cheap ass.
 
2013-04-04 10:09:40 AM  
www.sarrelldental.org
 
2013-04-04 10:11:11 AM  
Declaring a few of their ships "eminent domain" the next time they dock in Miami should persuade them. Those farktards pump mile-long slicks into the ocean on a regular basis. They are the maritime equivalent of the "People of WalMart".
 
2013-04-04 10:11:38 AM  

CarnySaur: I think the Coast Guard should pay us for keeping the cost of drugs and labor artificially high by preventing traffickers and illegal aliens from getting into the country.


Drugs and labor are already cheap. How poor are you?
 
2013-04-04 10:12:40 AM  
i find it funny that a "rockefeller" is biatching about someone else getting gov't money.  i'm sure the rockefeller's never profited from the gov't teat, right?

/farking hypocrite
 
2013-04-04 10:12:56 AM  
So hold the ships at port as unseaworthy until Carnival makes any necessary repairs that gives them a better than 50/50 shot of making it to the next port.
 
2013-04-04 10:14:07 AM  

dittybopper: monty666: The whole cruise thing is kind of sleazy and gross.

So it's like sex?


I'll be on the Lido Deck.
 
2013-04-04 10:16:18 AM  

Babwa Wawa: dittybopper: You know what happens then?

The cruise lines stop using US ports, and they fly the people who want to cruise to a foreign port for the start and end-points of their cruises.  So you lose any revenue you get from port fees, taxes, local sales of supplies and fuel, and the employment of dock-side cruise workers.

I don't think so.  70% of Americans don't even have f*cking passports.  Not to mention that it would take 800,000 airline seats to embark and debark a single cruise ship for a year.


for Bahamas cruises you don't need a passport. Long form Birth cert will do just fine. (Just got off of a cruise w/ Carnival, Well run operation and had a flippin ball.
 
2013-04-04 10:16:48 AM  
I thought the USCG policy for yachts was to rescue sailors in distress but to leave the boats to the elements; you pay a private salvage company or you lose your boat. Maybe they should apply that to cruise ships as well, or at the very least claim salvage. What's 1/3 the value of a cruise ship these days?
 
2013-04-04 10:17:15 AM  

Babwa Wawa: dittybopper: You know what happens then?

The cruise lines stop using US ports, and they fly the people who want to cruise to a foreign port for the start and end-points of their cruises.  So you lose any revenue you get from port fees, taxes, local sales of supplies and fuel, and the employment of dock-side cruise workers.

I don't think so.  70% of Americans don't even have f*cking passports.  Not to mention that it would take 800,000 airline seats to embark and debark a single cruise ship for a year.


You have to have a passport to take a cruise that docks at a foreign port, so that's not cutting their client base at all. Also, they will typically handle your air travel as part of your package if you want them to. So instead of flying you from LA to Seattle for an Alaskan cruise, they fly you to Vancouver. No big deal. Caribbean cruises leave out of Cancun instead of Florida. They absolutely could stop using US ports for most cruises.
 
2013-04-04 10:18:13 AM  
When I first saw this thread, I was tempted to jump on the "give Carnival the shaft" boat (no pun intended), but others have raised the valid point that they do generate some taxable revenue in the US ports they sail out of. That being said, they should still pony up something for these rescue operations, especially if it's their own business practices that are causing them.

One possible solution would be to either let the company surrender one of their ships in lieu of payment. While a cruise ship is a very specialized vessel, the next time there's a Sandy or Katrina event, having something that could house and feed 4,000 people could be useful. Sure, it's not a "real" blue-water vessel with so much freeboard and those big flat surfaces, but the Navy might have use of a vessel as a hospital/floating barracks option?

It would let the company get rid of one of its older ships, give us some level of compensation for all the costs involved. I know I should be writing something clever and snarky, but this is the best I got.
 
2013-04-04 10:18:59 AM  

Famous Thamas: I understand the point the Senator is trying to make, rescue operations do cost money.  But there does exist a culture of helping other vessels in distress, because you never know when your ship will break down, and you don't want to be the one stranded out there in that big blue wasteland.


Except you corporate white knights are missing the point here. Are these rescue operations preventable? Aren't most of Carnival's rescues because of taking 3000 people out to sea in badly disinfected badly maintained ships? At what point does their regular need of rescue strain credibility and/or need to be held accountable?
 
2013-04-04 10:19:03 AM  

mizchief: Yea gotta side with the Senator here. If your going to register all your ships on panama to get out of paying some taxes and avoiding US labor laws, then don't expect the US coast guard to bail your ass out for free.


Well, to be fair, there are normally somewhere in the area of 3000 tax paying US citizens aboard the ships so I would expect the CC to respond.  But, billing the cruise line for services seems reasonable to me.
 
2013-04-04 10:19:09 AM  

falcon176: Carnival is the most evil company and has dodged paying the most money to the US government recent company that people remember from the news so it's time to pretend to care about them so people think you actually do things in congress


Or you could call it dealing with problems as they arise.
 
2013-04-04 10:19:53 AM  

Frank N Stein: CarnySaur: I think the Coast Guard should pay us for keeping the cost of drugs and labor artificially high by preventing traffickers and illegal aliens from getting into the country.

Drugs and labor are already cheap. How poor are you?


Hey, I'm not poor, just miserly.
 
2013-04-04 10:21:19 AM  
Navy should tow it out to see where a reef needs to be made, and then use it for target practice
 
2013-04-04 10:22:31 AM  
TAG has to be for the senator. Dont save people if all you want is to be paid for saving them.
 
2013-04-04 10:22:35 AM  
Sounds like Senator McGrumpy didn't get his cash-stuffed envelope this month, poor thing.
 
2013-04-04 10:22:46 AM  

StRalphTheLiar: You have to have a passport to take a cruise that docks at a foreign port, so that's not cutting their client base at all. Also, they will typically handle your air travel as part of your package if you want them to. So instead of flying you from LA to Seattle for an Alaskan cruise, they fly you to Vancouver. No big deal. Caribbean cruises leave out of Cancun instead of Florida. They absolutely could stop using US ports for most cruises.


You are 100% wrong. You do not need a passport for a cruise that docks at a foreign port. But, to fly to, say Vancouver, you do need a passport.
 
2013-04-04 10:22:57 AM  

Babwa Wawa: dittybopper: You know what happens then?

The cruise lines stop using US ports, and they fly the people who want to cruise to a foreign port for the start and end-points of their cruises.  So you lose any revenue you get from port fees, taxes, local sales of supplies and fuel, and the employment of dock-side cruise workers.

I don't think so.  70% of Americans don't even have f*cking passports.  Not to mention that it would take 800,000 airline seats to embark and debark a single cruise ship for a year.


You can get a passport for that?  Or is it just like a Thai tourist visa?

Seriously, though, Carnival "highly recommends" that all cruise guests have  a valid passport in case of issues, and it is required for many of their cruises anyway.

As far as the airline seats go, that's not that big a deal, really, and most people fly to/from the port of embarkation/debarkation already.  Person I work with just took a cruise:  She had to fly from New York down to Florida.  Flying from New York to, say, the Bahamas instead wouldn't have made any difference.
 
2013-04-04 10:23:19 AM  

Generation_D: Famous Thamas: I understand the point the Senator is trying to make, rescue operations do cost money.  But there does exist a culture of helping other vessels in distress, because you never know when your ship will break down, and you don't want to be the one stranded out there in that big blue wasteland.

Except you corporate white knights are missing the point here. Are these rescue operations preventable? Aren't most of Carnival's rescues because of taking 3000 people out to sea in badly disinfected badly maintained ships? At what point does their regular need of rescue strain credibility and/or need to be held accountable?


I can't believe people actually go on Carnival Cruises anyway.  They ought to know by now, you get what you pay for!  Just pony up an extra couple hundred bucks and go Princess or Royal Caribbean.
 
2013-04-04 10:23:33 AM  

Nightsweat: dittybopper: monty666: The whole cruise thing is kind of sleazy and gross.

So it's like sex?

I'll be on the Lido Libido Deck.


FTFY.
 
2013-04-04 10:24:33 AM  
Carnival has been spamming me with print and email garbage since my last cruise. They seem to have no interest in honoring my requests that they stop doing so. At this point, they'd have to pay me to 'sail' with them.
 
2013-04-04 10:24:54 AM  

NightOwl2255: StRalphTheLiar: You have to have a passport to take a cruise that docks at a foreign port, so that's not cutting their client base at all. Also, they will typically handle your air travel as part of your package if you want them to. So instead of flying you from LA to Seattle for an Alaskan cruise, they fly you to Vancouver. No big deal. Caribbean cruises leave out of Cancun instead of Florida. They absolutely could stop using US ports for most cruises.

You are 100% wrong. You do not need a passport for a cruise that docks at a foreign port. But, to fly to, say Vancouver, you do need a passport.


Cruise lines "highly recommend" that you have one anyway.  It may not be *REQUIRED*, but if something happens it will be a major pain in the ass for you if you don't have one.
 
2013-04-04 10:24:58 AM  

NightOwl2255: StRalphTheLiar: You have to have a passport to take a cruise that docks at a foreign port, so that's not cutting their client base at all. Also, they will typically handle your air travel as part of your package if you want them to. So instead of flying you from LA to Seattle for an Alaskan cruise, they fly you to Vancouver. No big deal. Caribbean cruises leave out of Cancun instead of Florida. They absolutely could stop using US ports for most cruises.

You are 100% wrong. You do not need a passport for a cruise that docks at a foreign port. But, to fly to, say Vancouver, you do need a passport.


That surprised me, so I went to Carnival's site and checked. You are correct. I have been on 2 other cruise lines previously and both required adults to bring a passport, so I guess that was just their rule.
 
2013-04-04 10:27:13 AM  
mizchief

Yea gotta side with the Senator here. If your going to register all your ships on panama to get out of paying some taxes and avoiding US labor laws, then don't expect the US coast guard to bail your ass out for free.

Agreed, gotta recover the money somewhere, port fees or something. I never wanted to take a cruise... recent media has reaffirmed me of this.
 
2013-04-04 10:27:45 AM  

StRalphTheLiar: That surprised me, so I went to Carnival's site and checked. You are correct. I have been on 2 other cruise lines previously and both required adults to bring a passport, so I guess that was just their rule.


It's not their rule. It's US law. The only, only, international travel that does not require a passport is a cruise that leaves out of, and returns to, the same port.
 
2013-04-04 10:28:17 AM  

moefuggenbrew: I thought that's what taxes paid for?


You know  Carnival is not a US company and I doubt we have ever seen a tax dollar from them. Port fees maybe, payroll taxes, yes and corp taxes nope.
 
2013-04-04 10:28:56 AM  

Joe Blowme: TAG has to be for the senator. Dont save people if all you want is to be paid for saving them.


That's what I told the hospital for the ambulance ride. So far, it's gotten me nowhere...
 
2013-04-04 10:29:27 AM  
This seems like one of those rare threads where you can properly use the word 'scuttle' in a sentence and mean it.
 
2013-04-04 10:30:16 AM  
Carnival Cruise Lines: Already taken care of by way of paying taxes.
 
2013-04-04 10:30:55 AM  

Generation_D: dittybopper: Generation_D: So does the entire Merchant Marine fleet, but those guys aren't causing 90 mayday calls for the same fleet in 5 years.

I'm assuming you can support that assertion with a link?

Nope. Standard grade internet unsupported claim.

I'll start pointing yours out going forward, if we're changing the rules of engagement.


How would that be a change in the ROE?
 
2013-04-04 10:32:18 AM  
For profit organizations should have to pay for assistance if they are not paying federal taxes.
 
2013-04-04 10:32:51 AM  

monty666: cman: I wonder if a Fire Department would do something like this to someone who just cant stop setting his things ablaze.

I saw a story on the news where a fire department let a house burn in front of them because the homeowner hadn't paid their annual fee.


yeah i think it was Tennessee.
 
2013-04-04 10:35:32 AM  

dittybopper: Cruise lines "highly recommend" that you have one anyway. It may not be *REQUIRED*, but if something happens it will be a major pain in the ass for you if you don't have one.


It's only a major pain in the ass if you get stranded. If you show up with a stamped copy of your birth certificate and make it back on the ship before it leaves port, you're fine. I've done this twice in two years with no passport, including 2012.

I'd happily go Carnival again, too. I might try a different line next time I go for something different. But if it's Carnival again, I'd be perfectly happy.
 
2013-04-04 10:35:54 AM  

NightOwl2255: StRalphTheLiar: That surprised me, so I went to Carnival's site and checked. You are correct. I have been on 2 other cruise lines previously and both required adults to bring a passport, so I guess that was just their rule.

It's not their rule. It's US law. The only, only, international travel that does not require a passport is a cruise that leaves out of, and returns to, the same port.


Sorry, I meant that requiring passports was a rule of the other cruise lines.
 
2013-04-04 10:38:57 AM  

dittybopper: monty666: The whole cruise thing is kind of sleazy and gross.

So it's like sex?


yes but with people you see on 'peopleofwalmart.com'
 
2013-04-04 10:39:38 AM  

Mixolydian Master: Joe Blowme: TAG has to be for the senator. Dont save people if all you want is to be paid for saving them.

That's what I told the hospital for the ambulance ride. So far, it's gotten me nowhere...


And how about all those bills from the police when they help you out? Man i cant stand thoses either.
I wonder when the check from the people we saved from pirates off the Somali coast will get here.
 
2013-04-04 10:40:53 AM  
The system is rigged, and not in your favor citizen.
 
2013-04-04 10:40:57 AM  
Carnival Cruise Lines' continued profitability has got to be Exhibit A in the case against any suggestion that the average consumer is informed or that consumer groups could ferret out corporate misdeeds and undesirable externalities in the absence of regulation.
 
2013-04-04 10:43:02 AM  
Well, you do pay for emergency response vehicles in your daily life, so why not these guys? Ever have an ambulance transport you to the hospital? Yeah, you are charged for that, whether it is a municipal (fire dept) vehicle or hospital transport.
 
2013-04-04 10:43:24 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Simple solution, rescue the people, leave the ship.  Won't be long before all of Carnival's fleet is sitting on the bottom acting as artificial reefs.  Then they won't cost the Coast Guard anything.


yes.. because it's much easier, safer and cheaper to offload 5,000 people in the high seas to another GIANT ship that the USCG do not possess than it is to just towed the darn thing back to port. Makes perfect financial sense. I hope you don't don't make any financial decisions in your family.
 
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