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(The Sun)   Some spineless brute with a knife stabs his childhood pal leaving him paralyzed. Saudi Arabian court decides to go the "eye for an eye" route   (thesun.co.uk) divider line 42
    More: Sick, Saudi Arabia, human rights group, Amnesty International  
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16743 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Apr 2013 at 8:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-03 08:49:51 PM
4 votes:
Question:  If he has been in jail since he is fourteen years old, how can he be expected to earn the 1m riyals  that have been awarded?  If he is paralyzed, who will support him and his lack of prospects, allah?
Wouldn't it be better to put his ass to work caring for his victim or working and paying his debt awarded?  After all if they paralyze him, the victim gets nothing.
2013-04-03 08:42:52 PM
4 votes:
If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?
2013-04-03 08:48:01 PM
3 votes:
But how does this benefit the victim?

If they really want to "make the punishment fit the crime" and all that, and the criminal isn't paying up, he should have to serve his time as the bound servant of his victim. Waiting on him hand & foot, obeying his every whim, wiping his ass when he shiats, etc. Make him actually pay for the result of his crime, and benefit the victim. While I'm sure the victim will have some mental satisfaction from knowing the attacker is also paralyzed, I don't see how it helps anyone out in the long run.
2013-04-03 08:44:53 PM
3 votes:
Instead of eye-4-eye, wouldn't a better arrangement be to make him be his (former) pal's legs for the rest of their lives? Being his slave in all things physical would take away his freedom of movement, just in a different way from the paralyzed guy.
2013-04-03 08:39:08 PM
3 votes:

YoOjo: It's hardly an eye for an eye if someone's getting chopped over the back like a water buffalo in front of Col. Kurtz, is it?
Or does he have eyes on his shoulders? Oh wait, did the first guy lose an eye, or did he get stabbed in the back? Right, because if he did the it makes sense, if you change it to 'back for a back'.


I take it english isn't your first language? Or maybe your meds are in need of a refill?
2013-04-03 08:33:39 PM
3 votes:
github.com
2013-04-03 10:13:18 PM
2 votes:

pla: BarkingUnicorn : What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?

So they want to sentence him to torture and then slow starvation? Yeah, brilliant plan there. That'll teach his 14 year old self not to stab friends in the back!  And if nothing else, it will at least send a message to other 14 year olds, what with their near-legendary ability to consider the consequences of their actions...


Don't you know that harsh punishment acts as a deterrent?

America has the world's most prisoners, making us virtually crime free!  Not like those hellholes in Europe, like Norway.
pla
2013-04-03 10:03:30 PM
2 votes:
BarkingUnicorn : What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?

So they want to sentence him to torture and then slow starvation? Yeah, brilliant plan there. That'll teach his 14 year old self not to stab friends in the back!  And if nothing else, it will at least send a message to other 14 year olds, what with their near-legendary ability to consider the consequences of their actions...


It's amazing how many people who can't pay come up with money when their cars are disabled remotely.

I couldn't come up with $150k, and I've done pretty well for myself rather than rotting in a Saudi prison for the past decade. Now, if they gave 20 years to come up with the money - While actually working - You might have a point.


Just buy a gun and off yourself without bothering the rest of us. Do it where no one will have to clean up the mess.

Alas
, if only it worked that easy. Sure, I count as part of the problem, but only one six-billionth of it... As do you... As do we all! Nope, sorry, it'll take a comet. Even a massive nuclear war or an incredibly virulent plague wouldn't suffice, enough of us would survive it to re-infect the planet.
2013-04-03 09:53:37 PM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.

I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.

I did.  I still don't think it's OK for rich criminals to go unpunished when a poor criminal gets paralyzed.

I'm weird like that.

A suitable blood price is punishment and benefits the victim.  Our system denies suitable compensation to victims unless they are rich enough to sue, lucky enough to win, and persistent enough to collect.


Yeah...still not OK with rich guy being free and poor guy being paralyzed.

I really don't think you're going to be able to polish that turd enough to make it look good.
2013-04-03 09:20:16 PM
2 votes:

Capo Del Bandito: Lionel Mandrake: So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."

if it's a reasonable price, why not?


It makes perfect sense.  If you're an amoral asshole.
2013-04-03 09:16:41 PM
2 votes:

Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: That's all fine and dandy until some rich person who hates you stabs you, hands the court a wad of money and waltzes off.

Oh that's adorable. You don't think I considered that:

Life is not fair. Get used to it.

There is nothing YOU *fusilade762* can do to change that.

Sure it's unfair and cruel.

But that's the problem I have with most normal people: you don't accept that life isn't fair. Unless you're willing to kill and die for changing something, shut your pie hole and continue on with your meaningless drivel.


If you considered that, and came to that conclusion, you're not too bright.

You're right. Life isn't fair. It isn't fair this guy's victim is paralyzed for life. Living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality won't make life fair either. It will, however, mean you're living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality WHILE life isn't fair.
2013-04-03 08:48:31 PM
2 votes:

LewDux: Ali al-Khawahir left his victim paralysed a decade ago and is now facing the same fate from the waist down if he fails to pay compensation of one million riyals (£176,000).
 Al-Khawahir's mum has been begging wealthy philanthropists to come forward to contribute to the fund.


Farkers, we you can save him, we you have Paypal technology


The question remains, why would we want to? The same question nobody bothered to ask before creating the bionic man.
2013-04-03 08:45:11 PM
2 votes:
Interesting enough 'An eye for an eye' was a dial-down from previous methods of punishment and revenge.

Originally people who retaliate in 'a death for an eye' way. 'AEFAE' was a way of making things 'more equal'.
2013-04-03 08:41:48 PM
2 votes:
Can we please nuke this shiathole off my planet now?
2013-04-03 08:36:35 PM
2 votes:
Not really OK with this. But not all that bothered ether.
2013-04-03 08:35:08 PM
2 votes:
I'd have to hear the whole story to see if I should be outraged or not.
2013-04-03 08:33:38 PM
2 votes:
FTFA:

She said: "Ten years have passed with hundreds of sleepless nights. My hair has become grey at a young age because of my son's problem.

"I have been frightened to death whenever I think about my son's fate and that he will have to be paralysed."


Wouldn't be a problem if you would have killed him yourself 10 years ago, like you should have done.

In other news, if it is torture to do this to this criminal, then what would has actions towards the other guy be categorized as?

The Saudis are possibly the stupidest people on the planet - but when they are right, they are very right.
2013-04-03 08:31:36 PM
2 votes:
Why didn't he just come out once, and scream it?
2013-04-03 11:48:01 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: dbaggins: dark brew: What? How would it be different if the guy was 25 when the crime occurred? It still wouldn't benefit the victim or society.

the issue is responsibility.   there is a difference between a 14 year old and a 25 year old.  Not as much as westerners might insist, but there is a difference.  I don't think anyone would be suggesting this is the perpetrator had been 7, even with Sharia Law.

Maybe Saudis expect 14 year-olds to act like adults and raise them to do so.  Lotta 14 year-olds and younger children take on head-of-household responsibilities while parents do meth.  Other cultures expect and prepare for childhood to end before Americans think it should.


This is true historically, as well, and is something I have been studying. Robert Frost, my favorite poet, thought in abstract terms and took on personal responsibility from age sixteen on. One of the U.S. presidents, I believe it was Quincy Adams, had the Bible memorized at age 8 and successfully debated it with elderly delegates at age ten. For the longest while, I've supposed that age and responsibility is a social construct; however, I am currently seeing data that suggests the cerebral cortex is not developed until after the adolescent years. This empirical data seems to conflict with historical data and present-day examples of responsible and abstract-thinking adolescents, which confuses me.
2013-04-03 11:46:22 PM
1 votes:

GreenSun: What most people seem to fear is "What if you were wrongfully convicted?!" and that's why people tend to shy away from approving of "barbaric punishments".


You think that's why the Constitution has the whole "cruel and unusual" think, or are you just throwing out a lame strawman?

What if they had all the evidence against you, including videos, recordings, dna evidence and all that? Would you approve of those punishments or are you fine with some guy who raped and murdered entire families only getting 10 years in jail before he goes free again?

Because those are the only choices.

Straw-man with a side of false dichotomy.   Run along now, the adults are trying to have a conversation.
2013-04-03 11:25:07 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: zepillin: Lionel Mandrake: enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.

Why do you think it's a good idea?
 Don't do the crime, if you can't suffer the crime.

Except for the fact that this system further victimizes society by creating a dependant that society must now pick up the tab for, and is almost always disproportionately applied among racial, ethnic, and financial backgrounds. The Saudis are NOTORIOUS for giving natural born Saudis a slap on the wrist for utterly heinous crimes, while committing brutal and inhumanely cruel punishments on those who are poor, or foreign workers who would otherwise be deported anyway.

You're not talking about punishment. You're talking about blood revenge.


Funny how those that preach and preach that taxes are bad, because the government can't do anything right, and perfectly willing to give government the ability to enact blood revenge.

I don't think they've thought their cunning plan though.
2013-04-03 11:09:55 PM
1 votes:

Daedalus27: malaktaus: If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?

Because there was no death involved in this case, only horrific injury.  The death penalty is about harm reduction by eliminating the most dangerous individuals from society so that they cannot commit any future harm.  So far the penalty (10 years in jail and 1m in restitution) doesn't seem too far off from what he may get in many countries. The only difference is the paralyzation if he doesn't pay up and that seems excessive and counterproductive as you will be unable to collect the restitution if the criminal cannot meaningfully work anymore (please note, I know paralyzed individuals can be productive members of the workforce, but this is a unskilled person with a criminal record so that the job prospects are minimal beyond manual labor which has been taken away as a job catagory if he is paralyzed)


I find your argument deeply unconvincing and somewhat dishonest. First of all, the death penalty is in no way about harm reduction. That's a clear excuse when we can just as easily, and probably somewhat more cheaply, toss them in a deep, dark hole and throw away the key. The idea that the death penalty is about harm reduction is, frankly, an insult to my intelligence. That leaves vengeance, and that's really it if we're going to be honest about it. This is vengeance in exactly the same sense as the death penalty, and hey, if what you want is vengeance, just come out and say it, the hypocrisy and dishonesty make me sick. But keep in mind that if vengeance is our goal, this sort of "barbaric" behavior is in no way worse than what we do ourselves.
2013-04-03 11:06:08 PM
1 votes:

Duck_of_Doom: Exempt them from receiving disability benefits, Medicare, welfare, etc., just as criminals are proscribed guns and voting.  No tab for our taxes to pick up.  There are certainly segments in our society that would get behind that.


Ah, so just create more criminal acts, then? Make a criminal dependant on the system by crippling them, then toss them out on the streets to starve?

You're an idiot if you don't see the obvious problem with this approach in a modern day and age. Of course, considering this is the same stupidity applied to the mentally ill and drug addicted in the United States, and the same mentality of a large group of people, it's no surprise we have one of the most violent societies among first world countries.
2013-04-03 10:57:34 PM
1 votes:

zepillin: Lionel Mandrake: enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.

Why do you think it's a good idea?
 Don't do the crime, if you can't suffer the crime.


Except for the fact that this system further victimizes society by creating a dependant that society must now pick up the tab for, and is almost always disproportionately applied among racial, ethnic, and financial backgrounds. The Saudis are NOTORIOUS for giving natural born Saudis a slap on the wrist for utterly heinous crimes, while committing brutal and inhumanely cruel punishments on those who are poor, or foreign workers who would otherwise be deported anyway.

You're not talking about punishment. You're talking about blood revenge.
2013-04-03 10:47:20 PM
1 votes:
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'. But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)

(Granted, the teachings of Jesus are not particularly popular among his followers.)
2013-04-03 10:17:26 PM
1 votes:

dark brew: What? How would it be different if the guy was 25 when the crime occurred? It still wouldn't benefit the victim or society.


the issue is responsibility.   there is a difference between a 14 year old and a 25 year old.  Not as much as westerners might insist, but there is a difference.  I don't think anyone would be suggesting this is the perpetrator had been 7, even with Sharia Law.
2013-04-03 10:12:00 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: A suitable blood price is punishment and benefits the victim. Our system denies suitable compensation to victims unless they are rich enough to sue, lucky enough to win, and persistent enough to collect.


To function as an actual deterrent, the financial recompense should be proportional to both the crime, and the means of the perpetrator.

so, the rich don't get to walk away, without becoming poor themselves in the process.    In our world that is accomplished by ambulance chasing lawyers, who seek to represent people vicitmized by those with deep pockets.  Unfortunately that money is not then handed to victim, but goes to the lawyers.


There might be something a little better.
2013-04-03 09:57:18 PM
1 votes:
i was okay with it until i saw that the guy was only 14 years old when the original crime happened.  the article isn't clear if the stabbing was an accident or a prank gone wrong.  even if it was intentional, he was 14 and he's spent the last decade in prison.  i don't see how paralyzing him at this point would benefit the victim or society.  but this is the middle east we're talking about.  i don't think they care what a bunch of anonymous people on a news website in america have to say about their criminal justice system.
2013-04-03 09:45:54 PM
1 votes:

Fuggin Bizzy: This is why Tennessee needs to outlaw Shari'a law. It's farking brutal.


"Sharia Law" as used by paranoid right-wing idiots does not mean what you think it means. Practices like this are already outlawed by the United States constitution.

c85c7a.medialib.glogster.com

"Sharia Law" is a time-waster designed to appease moronic theocrats who think they're one moment away from being the next vassel of the Kingdom of Saud.

This practice is horrific, and the fact that we spend so much on the Saudis makes my stomach churn when I hear things like this.
2013-04-03 09:17:39 PM
1 votes:

Capo Del Bandito: Lionel Mandrake: So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."

if it's a reasonable price, why not?


And it's not like they don't already have the privilege. At least the lower income scum will get their just desserts.
2013-04-03 09:06:50 PM
1 votes:

Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.


I sometimes wonder if I'm communicating a thought to someone and I.
2013-04-03 09:06:50 PM
1 votes:
We need to be more like the Saudis when it comes to violent crime.

If you harm someone else, it's going to come back and do to you what you did to someone else. It's a deterrent, it evens the score, and it gives people catharsis.  Hell, I wouldn't mind if they extended the death penalty for repeat offenders and some of the more heinous violent crimes.

/ supports capital punishment
// it's the ultimate cleanser
2013-04-03 09:05:20 PM
1 votes:

Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.


That's all fine and dandy until some rich person who hates you stabs you, hands the court a wad of money and waltzes off.
2013-04-03 09:00:32 PM
1 votes:

MichiganFTL: Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.

We're banning Big Gulps and dodgeball, wondering is as far as we'll ever get.


Conservative beliefs:
"I get a boner when governments kill and maim people"
"Keeping Big Gulps out of my fat hands is torture"

/ Lovely people, conservatives
2013-04-03 09:00:05 PM
1 votes:
Wonder why they didn't ask the guy who was stabbed what he thought?

Also, I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was 14 but I managed to keep myself from stabbing anyone in the back or anywhere else for that matter. I have to imagine he knew about the whole 'eye for an eye' thing back then.
2013-04-03 08:59:22 PM
1 votes:

fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?


You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.
2013-04-03 08:57:14 PM
1 votes:

Gawdzila: Wow, buncha sickos here.  I see some people have trouble with the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" lesson.


welcometofark.jpg
2013-04-03 08:51:47 PM
1 votes:
Saudi Arabia is one deeply farked up country. For this and many other reasons.


malaktaus: If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?


Looks like 63% as of January 2013.
2013-04-03 08:49:10 PM
1 votes:

Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.


We're banning Big Gulps and dodgeball, wondering is as far as we'll ever get.
2013-04-03 08:47:23 PM
1 votes:
Well, that sucks. If I'm not mistaken, Saudi Islamic law allows the victim's family to make the decision and if the family's victim decides to take money as compensation for the crime, than the perpetrator can be set free. But it's entirely up to the victim's family if they are willing to forgive.

/someone please correct me if I'm wrong
2013-04-03 08:44:29 PM
1 votes:
Meh...he's had plenty of time to come up with the money for restitution.  He did what he did, and now it's time to pay the piper.  While it's harsh, so is the life his victim will be forced to live out.  Only difference is that his victim got to spend an extra 10 years suffering, whereas douchie-boy got to walk around on two feet.
2013-04-03 08:35:58 PM
1 votes:
I don't know who to side for in this case.

/if the victim was a girl he'd be a local hero.
 
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