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(The Sun)   Some spineless brute with a knife stabs his childhood pal leaving him paralyzed. Saudi Arabian court decides to go the "eye for an eye" route   (thesun.co.uk) divider line 200
    More: Sick, Saudi Arabia, human rights group, Amnesty International  
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16751 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Apr 2013 at 8:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-03 08:31:36 PM
Why didn't he just come out once, and scream it?
 
2013-04-03 08:33:03 PM
Don't worry Ali, I got your back.
 
2013-04-03 08:33:38 PM
FTFA:

She said: "Ten years have passed with hundreds of sleepless nights. My hair has become grey at a young age because of my son's problem.

"I have been frightened to death whenever I think about my son's fate and that he will have to be paralysed."


Wouldn't be a problem if you would have killed him yourself 10 years ago, like you should have done.

In other news, if it is torture to do this to this criminal, then what would has actions towards the other guy be categorized as?

The Saudis are possibly the stupidest people on the planet - but when they are right, they are very right.
 
2013-04-03 08:33:39 PM
github.com
 
2013-04-03 08:33:46 PM
Ali al-Khawahir left his victim paralysed a decade ago and is now facing the same fate from the waist down if he fails to pay compensation of one million riyals (£176,000).
 Al-Khawahir's mum has been begging wealthy philanthropists to come forward to contribute to the fund.


Farkers, we you can save him, we you have Paypal technology
 
2013-04-03 08:35:08 PM
I'd have to hear the whole story to see if I should be outraged or not.
 
2013-04-03 08:35:44 PM
I was distracted from the article by the "anti rape" underwear link.
 
2013-04-03 08:35:58 PM
I don't know who to side for in this case.

/if the victim was a girl he'd be a local hero.
 
2013-04-03 08:36:19 PM

MichiganFTL:


Came here for this, or some variant thereof, because I'm in feeling grumpy.
 
2013-04-03 08:36:35 PM
Not really OK with this. But not all that bothered ether.
 
2013-04-03 08:37:15 PM
It's hardly an eye for an eye if someone's getting chopped over the back like a water buffalo in front of Col. Kurtz, is it?
Or does he have eyes on his shoulders? Oh wait, did the first guy lose an eye, or did he get stabbed in the back? Right, because if he did the it makes sense, if you change it to 'back for a back'.
 
2013-04-03 08:39:08 PM

YoOjo: It's hardly an eye for an eye if someone's getting chopped over the back like a water buffalo in front of Col. Kurtz, is it?
Or does he have eyes on his shoulders? Oh wait, did the first guy lose an eye, or did he get stabbed in the back? Right, because if he did the it makes sense, if you change it to 'back for a back'.


I take it english isn't your first language? Or maybe your meds are in need of a refill?
 
2013-04-03 08:39:52 PM
I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.
 
2013-04-03 08:41:48 PM
Can we please nuke this shiathole off my planet now?
 
2013-04-03 08:42:34 PM
I'm going to go find something else to be outraged about.
 
2013-04-03 08:42:52 PM
If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?
 
2013-04-03 08:43:32 PM
Meh. Zero farks given. There are occasions where the victim should get a good shot in at the attacker. Rapist? Punishment is rape by horse using sand impregnated lube. fark civility.
 
2013-04-03 08:43:51 PM

SevenizGud: if it is torture to do this to this criminal, then what would has actions towards the other guy be categorized as?


It would be torture. Which is specifically why the criminal is a "criminal."
 
2013-04-03 08:44:29 PM
Meh...he's had plenty of time to come up with the money for restitution.  He did what he did, and now it's time to pay the piper.  While it's harsh, so is the life his victim will be forced to live out.  Only difference is that his victim got to spend an extra 10 years suffering, whereas douchie-boy got to walk around on two feet.
 
2013-04-03 08:44:53 PM
Instead of eye-4-eye, wouldn't a better arrangement be to make him be his (former) pal's legs for the rest of their lives? Being his slave in all things physical would take away his freedom of movement, just in a different way from the paralyzed guy.
 
2013-04-03 08:45:11 PM
Interesting enough 'An eye for an eye' was a dial-down from previous methods of punishment and revenge.

Originally people who retaliate in 'a death for an eye' way. 'AEFAE' was a way of making things 'more equal'.
 
2013-04-03 08:47:23 PM
Well, that sucks. If I'm not mistaken, Saudi Islamic law allows the victim's family to make the decision and if the family's victim decides to take money as compensation for the crime, than the perpetrator can be set free. But it's entirely up to the victim's family if they are willing to forgive.

/someone please correct me if I'm wrong
 
2013-04-03 08:48:01 PM
But how does this benefit the victim?

If they really want to "make the punishment fit the crime" and all that, and the criminal isn't paying up, he should have to serve his time as the bound servant of his victim. Waiting on him hand & foot, obeying his every whim, wiping his ass when he shiats, etc. Make him actually pay for the result of his crime, and benefit the victim. While I'm sure the victim will have some mental satisfaction from knowing the attacker is also paralyzed, I don't see how it helps anyone out in the long run.
 
2013-04-03 08:48:31 PM

LewDux: Ali al-Khawahir left his victim paralysed a decade ago and is now facing the same fate from the waist down if he fails to pay compensation of one million riyals (£176,000).
 Al-Khawahir's mum has been begging wealthy philanthropists to come forward to contribute to the fund.


Farkers, we you can save him, we you have Paypal technology


The question remains, why would we want to? The same question nobody bothered to ask before creating the bionic man.
 
2013-04-03 08:49:10 PM

Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.


We're banning Big Gulps and dodgeball, wondering is as far as we'll ever get.
 
2013-04-03 08:49:51 PM
Question:  If he has been in jail since he is fourteen years old, how can he be expected to earn the 1m riyals  that have been awarded?  If he is paralyzed, who will support him and his lack of prospects, allah?
Wouldn't it be better to put his ass to work caring for his victim or working and paying his debt awarded?  After all if they paralyze him, the victim gets nothing.
 
2013-04-03 08:50:56 PM
Not cool.  You should hang goblins.  A noose is reusable for all your execution needs.
 
2013-04-03 08:51:32 PM

Daedalus27: Question:  If he has been in jail since he is fourteen years old, how can he be expected to earn the 1m riyals  that have been awarded?  If he is paralyzed, who will support him and his lack of prospects, allah?
Wouldn't it be better to put his ass to work caring for his victim or working and paying his debt awarded?  After all if they paralyze him, the victim gets nothing.


We'd get the Saudi version of this:

25.media.tumblr.com

After Fox picked it up, it'd be golden in American Idol's slot.
 
2013-04-03 08:51:35 PM

Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.


Wonder about what?  Whether we'd be as shiatty and barbaric as they are?  Probably.
 
2013-04-03 08:51:47 PM
Saudi Arabia is one deeply farked up country. For this and many other reasons.


malaktaus: If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?


Looks like 63% as of January 2013.
 
2013-04-03 08:53:47 PM
Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?
 
2013-04-03 08:54:42 PM

Gyrfalcon: But how does this benefit the victim?

If they really want to "make the punishment fit the crime" and all that, and the criminal isn't paying up, he should have to serve his time as the bound servant of his victim. Waiting on him hand & foot, obeying his every whim, wiping his ass when he shiats, etc. Make him actually pay for the result of his crime, and benefit the victim. While I'm sure the victim will have some mental satisfaction from knowing the attacker is also paralyzed, I don't see how it helps anyone out in the long run.


The victim needs a power forward for his murderball team.
 
2013-04-03 08:55:20 PM

malaktaus: If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?


Because there was no death involved in this case, only horrific injury.  The death penalty is about harm reduction by eliminating the most dangerous individuals from society so that they cannot commit any future harm.  So far the penalty (10 years in jail and 1m in restitution) doesn't seem too far off from what he may get in many countries. The only difference is the paralyzation if he doesn't pay up and that seems excessive and counterproductive as you will be unable to collect the restitution if the criminal cannot meaningfully work anymore (please note, I know paralyzed individuals can be productive members of the workforce, but this is a unskilled person with a criminal record so that the job prospects are minimal beyond manual labor which has been taken away as a job catagory if he is paralyzed)
 
2013-04-03 08:56:05 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?


You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?
 
2013-04-03 08:56:20 PM
Wow, buncha sickos here.  I see some people have trouble with the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" lesson.
 
2013-04-03 08:56:55 PM

Bravo Two: Meh. Zero farks given. There are occasions where the victim should get a good shot in at the attacker. Rapist? Punishment is rape by horse using sand impregnated lube. fark civility.


Minus the sand and with some good lube. The punishment has enough depth as it is.
 
2013-04-03 08:57:14 PM

Gawdzila: Wow, buncha sickos here.  I see some people have trouble with the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" lesson.


welcometofark.jpg
 
2013-04-03 08:57:27 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.

Wonder about what?  Whether we'd be as shiatty and barbaric as they are?  Probably.


This.
 
2013-04-03 08:58:18 PM

Gyrfalcon: But how does this benefit the victim?

If they really want to "make the punishment fit the crime" and all that, and the criminal isn't paying up, he should have to serve his time as the bound servant of his victim. Waiting on him hand & foot, obeying his every whim, wiping his ass when he shiats, etc. Make him actually pay for the result of his crime, and benefit the victim. While I'm sure the victim will have some mental satisfaction from knowing the attacker is also paralyzed, I don't see how it helps anyone out in the long run.


Oh you silly silly emotional carbon sack.

It's not about the victim. That's vengeance. Find a Batman for that.

Removing someone society that is a problem, that will likely remain a problem, and would tax the jail system, remove them. Problem solved.

I swear to christ people get all involved with the ideology that 'all life is equal'.

Damn carbon sacks.
 
2013-04-03 08:59:22 PM

fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?


You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.
 
2013-04-03 09:00:05 PM
Wonder why they didn't ask the guy who was stabbed what he thought?

Also, I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was 14 but I managed to keep myself from stabbing anyone in the back or anywhere else for that matter. I have to imagine he knew about the whole 'eye for an eye' thing back then.
 
2013-04-03 09:00:32 PM

MichiganFTL: Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.

We're banning Big Gulps and dodgeball, wondering is as far as we'll ever get.


Conservative beliefs:
"I get a boner when governments kill and maim people"
"Keeping Big Gulps out of my fat hands is torture"

/ Lovely people, conservatives
 
2013-04-03 09:02:37 PM
If by sick you mean awesome, yeah it's sick alright.
 
2013-04-03 09:03:09 PM
I would think that if the perpetrator become the indentured servant of the victim then he would just make sure and kill him this time. What would he have to lose? He's already stabbed the guy in the back once, and a lifetime of wiping this guys ass isn't going to set well I am guessing. So kill him once and for all. If he did it right, they would think it was due to his injuries and maybe your indentured servitude would be over. Doesn't sound like the best of ideas, even though it is intended to help out the victim. But that's just my two cents.

The perp just needs a good scoldiosing!
 
2013-04-03 09:03:27 PM
fc04.deviantart.net
Wait! What did I do?
 
2013-04-03 09:04:48 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.

Wonder about what?  Whether we'd be as shiatty and barbaric as they are?  Probably.


Hence, the sick tag.
 
2013-04-03 09:05:18 PM
funnyshare.org
 
2013-04-03 09:05:18 PM

Eps05: /if the victim was a girl he'd be a local hero.


Things are different in Texas than in turban-land. We guys tend to protect girls more than boys. I think it is human nature here, don't know why. Am not a psychologist, but my sister is a prof in that field; time to email her.
 
2013-04-03 09:05:20 PM

Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.


That's all fine and dandy until some rich person who hates you stabs you, hands the court a wad of money and waltzes off.
 
2013-04-03 09:05:22 PM

Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.


You wonder what, exactly?
 
2013-04-03 09:05:25 PM

impaler: SevenizGud: if it is torture to do this to this criminal, then what would has actions towards the other guy be categorized as?

It would be torture. Which is specifically why the criminal is a "criminal."


The heinousness of torture is composed of horror and outrage.  The outrage is for the perp's calculated intention to horrifically harm another human being.  Combined, these factors make torture "worse" than an accident that produces the same harm.
 
2013-04-03 09:06:26 PM

Gawdzila: Wow, buncha sickos here.  I see some people have trouble with the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" lesson.


It's not about making a right, it's about making people happy.
 
2013-04-03 09:06:50 PM
We need to be more like the Saudis when it comes to violent crime.

If you harm someone else, it's going to come back and do to you what you did to someone else. It's a deterrent, it evens the score, and it gives people catharsis.  Hell, I wouldn't mind if they extended the death penalty for repeat offenders and some of the more heinous violent crimes.

/ supports capital punishment
// it's the ultimate cleanser
 
2013-04-03 09:06:50 PM

Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.


I sometimes wonder if I'm communicating a thought to someone and I.
 
2013-04-03 09:08:20 PM
benrwoodard.com

So, we just skipped right past tooth for tooth?
 
2013-04-03 09:08:25 PM

fusillade762: That's all fine and dandy until some rich person who hates you stabs you, hands the court a wad of money and waltzes off.


Oh that's adorable. You don't think I considered that:

Life is not fair. Get used to it.

There is nothing YOU *fusilade762* can do to change that.

Sure it's unfair and cruel.

But that's the problem I have with most normal people: you don't accept that life isn't fair. Unless you're willing to kill and die for changing something, shut your pie hole and continue on with your meaningless drivel.
 
2013-04-03 09:09:26 PM

Bravo Two: Meh. Zero farks given. There are occasions where the victim should get a good shot in at the attacker. Rapist? Punishment is rape by horse using sand impregnated lube. fark civility.


The rape imagery is disturbing on so many levels.
 
2013-04-03 09:09:51 PM

lumiere: Well, that sucks. If I'm not mistaken, Saudi Islamic law allows the victim's family to make the decision and if the family's victim decides to take money as compensation for the crime, than the perpetrator can be set free. But it's entirely up to the victim's family if they are willing to forgive.

/someone please correct me if I'm wrong


I believe I saw something about the refusal of blood money in this case.

Then there was the woman blinded by acid who spared her abuser  the same fate as the syringe hovered over his eyes.  Fark called her a hero.

I thought it was a great troll. :-)
 
2013-04-03 09:11:30 PM
FTA Amnesty International, the human rights group, said the sentence "should on no account be carried out".

Ann Harrison, a boss at Amnesty, said: "Paralysing someone as punishment for a crime would be torture.


I'm sure the Saudis will respect that position.

She is the boss after all.
 
2013-04-03 09:11:46 PM

Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.


So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."
 
2013-04-03 09:15:47 PM

Lionel Mandrake: So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."


if it's a reasonable price, why not?
 
2013-04-03 09:16:41 PM

Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: That's all fine and dandy until some rich person who hates you stabs you, hands the court a wad of money and waltzes off.

Oh that's adorable. You don't think I considered that:

Life is not fair. Get used to it.

There is nothing YOU *fusilade762* can do to change that.

Sure it's unfair and cruel.

But that's the problem I have with most normal people: you don't accept that life isn't fair. Unless you're willing to kill and die for changing something, shut your pie hole and continue on with your meaningless drivel.


If you considered that, and came to that conclusion, you're not too bright.

You're right. Life isn't fair. It isn't fair this guy's victim is paralyzed for life. Living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality won't make life fair either. It will, however, mean you're living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality WHILE life isn't fair.
 
2013-04-03 09:17:39 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Lionel Mandrake: So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."

if it's a reasonable price, why not?


And it's not like they don't already have the privilege. At least the lower income scum will get their just desserts.
 
2013-04-03 09:18:22 PM

impaler: If you considered that, and came to that conclusion, you're not too bright.

You're right. Life isn't fair. It isn't fair this guy's victim is paralyzed for life. Living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality won't make life fair either. It will, however, mean you're living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality WHILE life isn't fair.


Oh no, it' still unfair. But it's a better alternative than to imprison him for life. Pay for his everything.

Cost wise anyway.
 
2013-04-03 09:19:33 PM

super_grass: And it's not like they don't already have the privilege. At least the lower income scum will get their just desserts.


Who said anything about just desserts? You seem to believe that everyone is equal.

If you have the means, do so. If you have the ability, manipulate, if you have the money, buy it.

The hell makes you thing justice has anything to do with dealing with criminals?
 
2013-04-03 09:20:16 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Lionel Mandrake: So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."

if it's a reasonable price, why not?


It makes perfect sense.  If you're an amoral asshole.
 
2013-04-03 09:21:09 PM

Lionel Mandrake: It makes perfect sense. If you're an amoral asshole.


*Sociopathic* is the politically correct term.

if you view all life as individuals instead of one giant spreadsheet, it becomes a LOT easier to deal with such things.
 
2013-04-03 09:22:07 PM
If you're a parent and you witness the rape and murder of your child, what would be your first reaction? Most of you would probably scream "I'm gonna kill that son of a whore!" or "I'm gonna rip his ass open and feed him to the dogs!".

Modern society believes that crime needs to be punished with something that is of equal value but somehow doesn't want to tackle hard issues like death, torture, molestation, and rape. True, it is very hard to put a value on a person's life, suffering, and forceful loss of virginity or the defilement of one's body against his or hell will. So what kind of punishment is fit?

Maybe punishment to be dealt on the criminal is really something that nobody can give a general answer to. Maybe it all depends on the victim (if he/she is alive), his family, or a combination of their views and the land's law.

Personally, if someone steals, I don't think chopping off his hands would be satisfying enough. If someone stole $1,000,000 from me, I'd rather have the money back and have the guy imprisoned rather than see him get his hands chopped off, which is pretty worthless to me. Getting his hands chopped off might make me think "Well you asked for it!" and laugh a bit as revenge, but his hands sure aren't worth the $1,000,000 I lost. As a victim, what I'd feel is that all the time and effort I spent in earning $1,000,000 was suddenly and forcefully converted into the temporary amusement of seeing a criminal's hands get chopped off. It's just not worth what I lost.

Now in the case of the victim who became paralyzed because he was stabbed in the back, that's a very different matter. Being paralyzed means you won't be able to work normally like other people. Your future is very much affected. You can't do the simple things that you should be doing if only your body were normal. I think this is a case where it would be great if the victim and the family would have a say in how the criminal should be punished.

Maybe they can have a few choices like what others have said. Have the criminal pay them the money that the victim would have earned in a lifetime if only he could work. If the criminal can't do that, then turn him into the victim's slave because he took away the victim's ability to do things for himself. If he can't do that, then they can always destroy his spine and turn him into a paralyzed person just like what he did to the victim. If the victim or the family forgives him, then the land's law can deal its own choice of punishment on the criminal, like maybe whipping him a few thousand times, chopping off body parts, torturing him, or just keeping him in jail where he can't harm anybody else.

What most people seem to fear is "What if you were wrongfully convicted?!" and that's why people tend to shy away from approving of "barbaric punishments". What if they had all the evidence against you, including videos, recordings, dna evidence and all that? Would you approve of those punishments or are you fine with some guy who raped and murdered entire families only getting 10 years in jail before he goes free again?
 
2013-04-03 09:22:46 PM
Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.
 
2013-04-03 09:24:28 PM

enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.


Why do you think it's a good idea?
 
2013-04-03 09:27:21 PM
Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

I wonder about the medical qualifications of the person who will execute this sentence.  Is he a neurosurgeon, a prison guard, a butcher hired for the occasion?
 
2013-04-03 09:27:51 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.

So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."


Actually, shari'a law allows for certain crimes to be paid for if the victim and his/her family agree to it. Murder is actually one of those crimes. The rationale is that it is actually better for the victim to be monetarily recompensed for their injuries and requited, than to make the society suffer more by an unending cycle of vengeance and retribution. Whether that idealized theory worked, of course, is another matter; but the idea was that the payment for a son's murder or a daughter's rape would end the matter and prevent the family from seeking further vengeance, because they had been "made whole" as we say in contract law.

So in this case, the idea that paying the paralyzed victim money instead of sticking his attacker in jail for some period of time is preferable in the eyes of shari'a law to our system which would put the criminal in jail and force the victim to seek money on his own (like in civil court). Only if the criminal can't or won't pay up is the victim allowed lex talionis, because the criminal hasn't paid his debt TO THE VICTIM. Society, in this equation, has no claim on the criminal.

Considered in that light, it's our system that is unfair and weird.
 
2013-04-03 09:28:05 PM

Mole Man: Bravo Two: Meh. Zero farks given. There are occasions where the victim should get a good shot in at the attacker. Rapist? Punishment is rape by horse using sand impregnated lube. fark civility.

The rape imagery is disturbing on so many levels.


I know right?  You'd have to find an uncommonly sinful horse.
 
2013-04-03 09:28:22 PM

enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.


They could definitely teach some of these idiots on the east side of Michigan how to make a good shawarma.
 
2013-04-03 09:28:35 PM

Lionel Mandrake: enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.

Why do you think it's a good idea?


Because with a high rate of recidivism and escalation of crimes, it's time to try something new?
 
2013-04-03 09:28:49 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.


That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.
 
2013-04-03 09:29:57 PM

Bravo Two: Because with a high rate of recidivism and escalation of crimes, it's time to try something new?


"Locks only keep honest people out".

People will do what they think they can get away with.

If they think they can get away with murder/rape/etc. they will do so.

So remove them from the equation, problem solved.
 
2013-04-03 09:30:37 PM

SubBass49: Meh...he's had plenty of time to come up with the money for restitution.  He did what he did, and now it's time to pay the piper.  While it's harsh, so is the life his victim will be forced to live out.  Only difference is that his victim got to spend an extra 10 years suffering, whereas douchie-boy got to walk around on two feet.


While he was in prison, or when he got older than 14?
 
2013-04-03 09:30:53 PM

Gyrfalcon: Actually, shari'a law allows for certain crimes to be paid for if the victim and his/her family agree to it. Murder is actually one of those crimes. The rationale is that it is actually better for the victim to be monetarily recompensed for their injuries and requited, than to make the society suffer more by an unending cycle of vengeance and retribution. Whether that idealized theory worked, of course, is another matter; but the idea was that the payment for a son's murder or a daughter's rape would end the matter and prevent the family from seeking further vengeance, because they had been "made whole" as we say in contract law.

So in this case, the idea that paying the paralyzed victim money instead of sticking his attacker in jail for some period of time is preferable in the eyes of shari'a law to our system which would put the criminal in jail and force the victim to seek money on his own (like in civil court). Only if the criminal can't or won't pay up is the victim allowed lex talionis, because the criminal hasn't paid his debt TO THE VICTIM. Society, in this equation, has no claim on the criminal.

Considered in that light, it's our system that is unfair and weird.


Perfectly stated. +1
 
2013-04-03 09:30:54 PM
I like the whole concept of forcing criminals to work and do disgusting, unsanitary jobs no one else would want. And instead of capital punishment, a joint deal with Siberia and Greenland to send those on death row to factories over there, in fortified camps far from any civilization, with what minimal food and insulation from the cold they need to survive. And make them chop their own firewood, with guards to keep the peace--kept watching the prisoners from balconies or ramparts above. Move some labor back to America, and have them earn their keep.
 
pla
2013-04-03 09:32:14 PM
Inefficient - Paralyzing someone would simply make them a burden on society.

And he can pay a fine (that he can't actually pay) instead?  Seriously, WTF?

Farking animals... And our second best buds in the Middle East... And the source of 3/4ths of the 9/11 hijackers.  Can the comet please come now and let the planet reboot without us?
 
2013-04-03 09:33:17 PM

Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.


I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.
 
2013-04-03 09:33:24 PM

Gyrfalcon: Lionel Mandrake: Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.

So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."

Actually, shari'a law allows for certain crimes to be paid for if the victim and his/her family agree to it. Murder is actually one of those crimes. The rationale is that it is actually better for the victim to be monetarily recompensed for their injuries and requited, than to make the society suffer more by an unending cycle of vengeance and retribution. Whether that idealized theory worked, of course, is another matter; but the idea was that the payment for a son's murder or a daughter's rape would end the matter and prevent the family from seeking further vengeance, because they had been "made whole" as we say in contract law.

So in this case, the idea that paying the paralyzed victim money instead of sticking his attacker in jail for some period of time is preferable in the eyes of shari'a law to our system which would put the criminal in jail and force the victim to seek money on his own (like in civil court). Only if the criminal can't or won't pay up is the victim allowed lex talionis, because the criminal hasn't paid his debt TO THE VICTIM. Society, in this equation, has no claim on the criminal.

Considered in that light, it's our system that is unfair and weird.


That's just a longer way of saying "yes."

I guess it's a great system if you're rich.
 
2013-04-03 09:34:43 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.

I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.


I did.  I still don't think it's OK for rich criminals to go unpunished when a poor criminal gets paralyzed.

I'm weird like that.
 
2013-04-03 09:37:47 PM

pla: Inefficient - Paralyzing someone would simply make them a burden on society.


What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?


And he can pay a fine (that he can't actually pay) instead?  Seriously, WTF?

It's amazing how many people who can't pay come up with money when their cars are disabled remotely.

Farking animals... And our second best buds in the Middle East... And the source of 3/4ths of the 9/11 hijackers.  Can the comet please come now and let the planet reboot without us?

Just buy a gun and off yourself without bothering the rest of us.  Do it where no one will have to clean up the mess..
 
2013-04-03 09:38:58 PM
There's a small part of me that's okay with this.
 
2013-04-03 09:41:36 PM
This is why Tennessee needs to outlaw Shari'a law. It's farking brutal.
 
2013-04-03 09:43:53 PM
I remembered hearing about this a couple of years ago when they were trying to decide how to punish the perpetrator. Apparently the guy stabbed the victim repeatedly leaving him paralyzed. The victim also later lost a foot.

The family and the victim are the ones who push for the punishment under sharia law.

Sick thing to be sure but the banner ad proclaiming AOLnews has a new home...The Huffington Post made me lol.

Link
 
2013-04-03 09:45:54 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: This is why Tennessee needs to outlaw Shari'a law. It's farking brutal.


"Sharia Law" as used by paranoid right-wing idiots does not mean what you think it means. Practices like this are already outlawed by the United States constitution.

c85c7a.medialib.glogster.com

"Sharia Law" is a time-waster designed to appease moronic theocrats who think they're one moment away from being the next vassel of the Kingdom of Saud.

This practice is horrific, and the fact that we spend so much on the Saudis makes my stomach churn when I hear things like this.
 
2013-04-03 09:46:27 PM
A part of me sees this as real justice, something fitting the crime not just a slap on the wrist.  But I wonder how they are going to do it without killing the guy?  And what doctor would perform the operation?  Do not harm doesn't count in Saudi Arabian?
 
2013-04-03 09:47:04 PM

Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.

I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.

I did.  I still don't think it's OK for rich criminals to go unpunished when a poor criminal gets paralyzed.

I'm weird like that.


A suitable blood price is punishment and benefits the victim.  Our system denies suitable compensation to victims unless they are rich enough to sue, lucky enough to win, and persistent enough to collect.
 
2013-04-03 09:47:40 PM
What, was the spiffy tag busy or something?
 
2013-04-03 09:52:49 PM

Gyrfalcon: But how does this benefit the victim?

If they really want to "make the punishment fit the crime" and all that, and the criminal isn't paying up, he should have to serve his time as the bound servant of his victim. Waiting on him hand & foot, obeying his every whim, wiping his ass when he shiats, etc. Make him actually pay for the result of his crime, and benefit the victim. While I'm sure the victim will have some mental satisfaction from knowing the attacker is also paralyzed, I don't see how it helps anyone out in the long run.


The judge should order him to be his butler.
 
2013-04-03 09:53:37 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.

I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.

I did.  I still don't think it's OK for rich criminals to go unpunished when a poor criminal gets paralyzed.

I'm weird like that.

A suitable blood price is punishment and benefits the victim.  Our system denies suitable compensation to victims unless they are rich enough to sue, lucky enough to win, and persistent enough to collect.


Yeah...still not OK with rich guy being free and poor guy being paralyzed.

I really don't think you're going to be able to polish that turd enough to make it look good.
 
2013-04-03 09:57:18 PM
i was okay with it until i saw that the guy was only 14 years old when the original crime happened.  the article isn't clear if the stabbing was an accident or a prank gone wrong.  even if it was intentional, he was 14 and he's spent the last decade in prison.  i don't see how paralyzing him at this point would benefit the victim or society.  but this is the middle east we're talking about.  i don't think they care what a bunch of anonymous people on a news website in america have to say about their criminal justice system.
 
2013-04-03 10:00:50 PM

enderthexenocide: i was okay with it until i saw that the guy was only 14 years old


enderthexenocide: i don't see how paralyzing him at this point would benefit the victim or society


What?  How would it be different if the guy was 25 when the crime occurred?  It still wouldn't benefit the victim or society.
 
pla
2013-04-03 10:03:30 PM
BarkingUnicorn : What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?

So they want to sentence him to torture and then slow starvation? Yeah, brilliant plan there. That'll teach his 14 year old self not to stab friends in the back!  And if nothing else, it will at least send a message to other 14 year olds, what with their near-legendary ability to consider the consequences of their actions...


It's amazing how many people who can't pay come up with money when their cars are disabled remotely.

I couldn't come up with $150k, and I've done pretty well for myself rather than rotting in a Saudi prison for the past decade. Now, if they gave 20 years to come up with the money - While actually working - You might have a point.


Just buy a gun and off yourself without bothering the rest of us. Do it where no one will have to clean up the mess.

Alas
, if only it worked that easy. Sure, I count as part of the problem, but only one six-billionth of it... As do you... As do we all! Nope, sorry, it'll take a comet. Even a massive nuclear war or an incredibly virulent plague wouldn't suffice, enough of us would survive it to re-infect the planet.
 
2013-04-03 10:11:01 PM
If Saudi didn't have oil, we wouldn't give their 15th century country the time of day.
 
2013-04-03 10:12:00 PM

BarkingUnicorn: A suitable blood price is punishment and benefits the victim. Our system denies suitable compensation to victims unless they are rich enough to sue, lucky enough to win, and persistent enough to collect.


To function as an actual deterrent, the financial recompense should be proportional to both the crime, and the means of the perpetrator.

so, the rich don't get to walk away, without becoming poor themselves in the process.    In our world that is accomplished by ambulance chasing lawyers, who seek to represent people vicitmized by those with deep pockets.  Unfortunately that money is not then handed to victim, but goes to the lawyers.


There might be something a little better.
 
2013-04-03 10:13:18 PM

pla: BarkingUnicorn : What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?

So they want to sentence him to torture and then slow starvation? Yeah, brilliant plan there. That'll teach his 14 year old self not to stab friends in the back!  And if nothing else, it will at least send a message to other 14 year olds, what with their near-legendary ability to consider the consequences of their actions...


Don't you know that harsh punishment acts as a deterrent?

America has the world's most prisoners, making us virtually crime free!  Not like those hellholes in Europe, like Norway.
 
2013-04-03 10:17:26 PM

dark brew: What? How would it be different if the guy was 25 when the crime occurred? It still wouldn't benefit the victim or society.


the issue is responsibility.   there is a difference between a 14 year old and a 25 year old.  Not as much as westerners might insist, but there is a difference.  I don't think anyone would be suggesting this is the perpetrator had been 7, even with Sharia Law.
 
2013-04-03 10:18:12 PM
images1.wikia.nocookie.net

"You know the old saying, an eye for a tooth, a nose for a chin, a butt for a... well, it's an old saying. It's not a good saying."
 
2013-04-03 10:21:32 PM
I suspect the judge in this case made an estimate of what the boys extended family could scrape together as a blood price.  That is normally how this is done.

I'm guessing the mother's plea to strangers for money is because the extended family would prefer the boy pay in-kind rather than chip in their own funds.
 
2013-04-03 10:27:18 PM

dbaggins: dark brew: What? How would it be different if the guy was 25 when the crime occurred? It still wouldn't benefit the victim or society.

the issue is responsibility.   there is a difference between a 14 year old and a 25 year old.  Not as much as westerners might insist, but there is a difference.  I don't think anyone would be suggesting this is the perpetrator had been 7, even with Sharia Law.


My point was that it is never going to benefit society or the victim to enact this type of punishment, so age doesn't play a factor.
 
2013-04-03 10:32:04 PM

Lionel Mandrake: That's just a longer way of saying "yes."

I guess it's a great system if you're rich.


No, it's a system that used to make sense in small, insular communities where everyone knew each other, and justice wasn't necessarily served by taking another person out of the tribe or village; and where continual blood-feuds could rip apart societies that needed cohesiveness to survive against outside attacks. Today, it's an anachronism and leads to results like this--where the extended family is no more able or willing to pay a blood-price than the immediate family; and where involuntary servitude isn't really enforceable as a punishment like it would have been, say, 1500 years ago in a small village where the attacker could have been shamed or monitored into his punishment. And where keeping an able-bodied male alive and active would have been more necessary for defense of the village against bandit attacks than executing him for some abstract notion of "justice."

Then is not now. But not everyone's mindset has advanced past the medieval village, not even here in modern, 21st century America.
 
2013-04-03 10:34:10 PM

fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?


If the buyout goes to the victim, that takes a lot of the sting out of it.
 
2013-04-03 10:36:08 PM
It's gonna be funny when guy # 2 dies from being stabbed in the back and his parents sue and they have to kill the first guy as well.
 
2013-04-03 10:37:49 PM

Thisbymaster: A part of me sees this as real justice, something fitting the crime not just a slap on the wrist.  But I wonder how they are going to do it without killing the guy?  And what doctor would perform the operation?  Do not harm doesn't count in Saudi Arabian?


This isn't justice, it's vengeance. It's allowing some sick people to get their jollies by legally torturing someone.  Anyone who thinks this is in anyway a just punishment has no humanity.
 
2013-04-03 10:38:43 PM

Kanemano: SubBass49: Meh...he's had plenty of time to come up with the money for restitution.  He did what he did, and now it's time to pay the piper.  While it's harsh, so is the life his victim will be forced to live out.  Only difference is that his victim got to spend an extra 10 years suffering, whereas douchie-boy got to walk around on two feet.

While he was in prison, or when he got older than 14?


Heavenly father, forgive me my transgressions, and the skimming of TFA...
Thy will be done.
 
2013-04-03 10:41:12 PM

Lionel Mandrake: That's just a longer way of saying "yes."

I guess it's a great system if you're rich.


when implemented properly, the rich are not rich afterwards.  Rich buys you one free horrific crime, then you get to live in a cinderblock apartment complex in a 110 degrees for your life, with your family.  better than having your hand cut off of being castrated or blinded with acid.  Your kids probably are going to have to behave better than you did.
 
2013-04-03 10:43:58 PM

jtown: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

If the buyout goes to the victim, that takes a lot of the sting out of it.


Kid has the option to kill himself. Should give him the operation, then some privacy with a couple of cyanide pills.
 
2013-04-03 10:44:05 PM

Lionel Mandrake: pla: BarkingUnicorn : What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?

So they want to sentence him to torture and then slow starvation? Yeah, brilliant plan there. That'll teach his 14 year old self not to stab friends in the back!  And if nothing else, it will at least send a message to other 14 year olds, what with their near-legendary ability to consider the consequences of their actions...

Don't you know that harsh punishment acts as a deterrent?


Which is why this crime didn't happen in Saudi Arabia, a place notorious for harsh punishments.

What is the victim's societal rank?  It seems like the weregild is a bit high.
 
2013-04-03 10:44:36 PM
We do it here.

Its called the death penalty.
 
2013-04-03 10:45:11 PM

SevenizGud: FTFA:

She said: "Ten years have passed with hundreds of sleepless nights. My hair has become grey at a young age because of my son's problem.

"I have been frightened to death whenever I think about my son's fate and that he will have to be paralysed."

Wouldn't be a problem if you would have killed him yourself 10 years ago, like you should have done.

In other news, if it is torture to do this to this criminal, then what would has actions towards the other guy be categorized as?

The Saudis are possibly the stupidest people on the planet - but when they are right, they are very right.


Agreed.
 
2013-04-03 10:47:20 PM
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'. But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)

(Granted, the teachings of Jesus are not particularly popular among his followers.)
 
2013-04-03 10:49:07 PM

BradleyUffner: Thisbymaster: A part of me sees this as real justice, something fitting the crime not just a slap on the wrist.  But I wonder how they are going to do it without killing the guy?  And what doctor would perform the operation?  Do not harm doesn't count in Saudi Arabian?

This isn't justice, it's vengeance. It's allowing some sick people to get their jollies by legally torturing someone.  Anyone who thinks this is in anyway a just punishment has no humanity.


This. There's a reason our system was designed to be as impartial as possible and remove the aspect of "revenge" from the mob.

Ironically, the people celebrating this in the thread are among the first ones to speak up in any thread they feel their "constitutional rights" are being imposed upon, namely the Second Amendment and the First Amendment protections of religion. (Or what they imagine them to be).

Clearly, in those case, our constitution was brilliantly designed. In this case, they can wipe their ass with it.
 
2013-04-03 10:54:04 PM

jtown: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

If the buyout goes to the victim, that takes a lot of the sting out of it.


Not sure about that.  Money only helps after the fact, when the choice is out of your hands.  It doesn't help with securing society, it's just your personal gain from tragedy.

Say your baby brother is kidnapped, scooped up in some jerk's idea of "The Most Dangerous Game: Kids Edition", and killed.  The guy offers you $1million for his fun, and goes to do the same thing to other families until he gets bored.  Would you rather have the money, or your family member?  Would society benefit by stopping the guy?
 
2013-04-03 10:54:13 PM

Lionel Mandrake: enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.

Why do you think it's a good idea?

 Don't do the crime, if you can't suffer the crime.

 
2013-04-03 10:56:07 PM

zepillin: Lionel Mandrake: enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.

Why do you think it's a good idea?
 Don't do the crime, if you can't suffer the crime.


This is a good idea because it culls the predators. The victim should be able to request it during sentencing, AFTER a trial has been completed.
 
2013-04-03 10:57:34 PM

zepillin: Lionel Mandrake: enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.

Why do you think it's a good idea?
 Don't do the crime, if you can't suffer the crime.


Except for the fact that this system further victimizes society by creating a dependant that society must now pick up the tab for, and is almost always disproportionately applied among racial, ethnic, and financial backgrounds. The Saudis are NOTORIOUS for giving natural born Saudis a slap on the wrist for utterly heinous crimes, while committing brutal and inhumanely cruel punishments on those who are poor, or foreign workers who would otherwise be deported anyway.

You're not talking about punishment. You're talking about blood revenge.
 
2013-04-03 10:58:24 PM

BradleyUffner: Thisbymaster: A part of me sees this as real justice, something fitting the crime not just a slap on the wrist.  But I wonder how they are going to do it without killing the guy?  And what doctor would perform the operation?  Do not harm doesn't count in Saudi Arabian?

This isn't justice, it's vengeance.


You say that like it's a bad thing. Is society not allowed retribution against those who have wronged the collective?  Are we not allowed to closure for heinous crimes? Are we not allowed to inflict punishment as a society as a deterrent to future criminals?

Being squeamish about applying the golden rule to bad people is cowardice.
 
2013-04-03 11:01:28 PM

The more you eat the more you fart: We do it here.

Its called the death penalty.


When was the last time we executed a 14-year-old?
 
2013-04-03 11:03:08 PM

hardinparamedic: Except for the fact that this system further victimizes society by creating a dependant that society must now pick up the tab for,


Exempt them from receiving disability benefits, Medicare, welfare, etc., just as criminals are proscribed guns and voting.  No tab for our taxes to pick up.  There are certainly segments in our society that would get behind that.
 
2013-04-03 11:03:21 PM

Duck_of_Doom: jtown: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

If the buyout goes to the victim, that takes a lot of the sting out of it.

Not sure about that.  Money only helps after the fact, when the choice is out of your hands.  It doesn't help with securing society, it's just your personal gain from tragedy.

Say your baby brother is kidnapped, scooped up in some jerk's idea of "The Most Dangerous Game: Kids Edition", and killed.  The guy offers you $1million for his fun, and goes to do the same thing to other families until he gets bored.  Would you rather have the money, or your family member?  Would society benefit by stopping the guy?


"Hey buddy, your wife's pretty hot. I'll give you a million dollars to have sex with her."

"I don't think she'd be cool with that..."

"That's OK, she won't have to be!"
 
GBB
2013-04-03 11:05:55 PM
Saudi Arabian court takes "eye for an eye" passage in Bible literally?
Saudi Arabia: that's a county in Texas, right?
 
2013-04-03 11:06:08 PM

Duck_of_Doom: Exempt them from receiving disability benefits, Medicare, welfare, etc., just as criminals are proscribed guns and voting.  No tab for our taxes to pick up.  There are certainly segments in our society that would get behind that.


Ah, so just create more criminal acts, then? Make a criminal dependant on the system by crippling them, then toss them out on the streets to starve?

You're an idiot if you don't see the obvious problem with this approach in a modern day and age. Of course, considering this is the same stupidity applied to the mentally ill and drug addicted in the United States, and the same mentality of a large group of people, it's no surprise we have one of the most violent societies among first world countries.
 
2013-04-03 11:08:14 PM
super_grass:
You say that like it's a bad thing.

It IS a bad thing.

Is society not allowed retribution against those who have wronged the collective?  Are we not allowed to closure for heinous crimes? Are we not allowed to inflict punishment as a society as a deterrent to future criminals?

Sure, but society can get all those things without torturing someone.
 
2013-04-03 11:09:55 PM

Daedalus27: malaktaus: If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?

Because there was no death involved in this case, only horrific injury.  The death penalty is about harm reduction by eliminating the most dangerous individuals from society so that they cannot commit any future harm.  So far the penalty (10 years in jail and 1m in restitution) doesn't seem too far off from what he may get in many countries. The only difference is the paralyzation if he doesn't pay up and that seems excessive and counterproductive as you will be unable to collect the restitution if the criminal cannot meaningfully work anymore (please note, I know paralyzed individuals can be productive members of the workforce, but this is a unskilled person with a criminal record so that the job prospects are minimal beyond manual labor which has been taken away as a job catagory if he is paralyzed)


I find your argument deeply unconvincing and somewhat dishonest. First of all, the death penalty is in no way about harm reduction. That's a clear excuse when we can just as easily, and probably somewhat more cheaply, toss them in a deep, dark hole and throw away the key. The idea that the death penalty is about harm reduction is, frankly, an insult to my intelligence. That leaves vengeance, and that's really it if we're going to be honest about it. This is vengeance in exactly the same sense as the death penalty, and hey, if what you want is vengeance, just come out and say it, the hypocrisy and dishonesty make me sick. But keep in mind that if vengeance is our goal, this sort of "barbaric" behavior is in no way worse than what we do ourselves.
 
2013-04-03 11:10:16 PM

BradleyUffner: Sure, but society can get all those things without torturing someone.


You're arguing with someone who thinks that the holocaust and holodomir was justified and not really a bad thing. I'm pretty sure you're not going to see eye to eye.
 
2013-04-03 11:11:21 PM
Sounds horrible until you think that he did this to another human being.

Seems fair.
 
2013-04-03 11:13:14 PM

GBB: Saudi Arabian court takes "eye for an eye" passage in Bible literally?
Saudi Arabia: that's a county in Texas, right?


It's the Hammurabi Code, and out dates the bible by a few months.
 
2013-04-03 11:15:32 PM

BradleyUffner: This isn't justice, it's vengeance. It's allowing some sick people to get their jollies by legally torturing someone.  Anyone who thinks this is in anyway a just punishment has no humanity.


What exactly do you think justice is? Justice is about desert. If you you good deed X, then you deserve a reward of roughly equal magnitude to X.  If you do evil deed Y, then you deserve a punishment of roughly equal magnitude to Y.  It's social algebra; you balance the equation by doing on one side what was done on the other side.  "Jollies" do not enter into the equation.
 
2013-04-03 11:18:48 PM

Yogimus: GBB: Saudi Arabian court takes "eye for an eye" passage in Bible literally?
Saudi Arabia: that's a county in Texas, right?

It's the Hammurabi Code, and out dates the bible by a few months.


I'll take Appeal to Tradition for 500, Alex.
 
2013-04-03 11:22:00 PM

hardinparamedic: Yogimus: GBB: Saudi Arabian court takes "eye for an eye" passage in Bible literally?
Saudi Arabia: that's a county in Texas, right?

It's the Hammurabi Code, and out dates the bible by a few months.

I'll take Appeal to Tradition for 500, Alex.


Not relevant, that statement was not a proposal of said code, merely the correct identification of.

/   V
 
2013-04-03 11:23:48 PM

pla: BarkingUnicorn : What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?

So they want to sentence him to torture and then slow starvation? Yeah, brilliant plan there. That'll teach his 14 year old self not to stab friends in the back!  And if nothing else, it will at least send a message to other 14 year olds, what with their near-legendary ability to consider the consequences of their actions...


No, I think they expect his family to take care of him and they know 14 year-olds are impulsive so they don't waste much consideration on deterrence.

Alas, if only it worked that easy. Sure, I count as part of the problem, but only one six-billionth of it... As do you... As do we all! Nope, sorry, it'll take a comet. Even a massive nuclear war or an incredibly virulent plague wouldn't suffice, enough of us would survive it to re-infect the planet.

Well, if all of humanity deserves to die in terror then why are you excited about this guy?
 
2013-04-03 11:25:07 PM

hardinparamedic: zepillin: Lionel Mandrake: enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.

Why do you think it's a good idea?
 Don't do the crime, if you can't suffer the crime.

Except for the fact that this system further victimizes society by creating a dependant that society must now pick up the tab for, and is almost always disproportionately applied among racial, ethnic, and financial backgrounds. The Saudis are NOTORIOUS for giving natural born Saudis a slap on the wrist for utterly heinous crimes, while committing brutal and inhumanely cruel punishments on those who are poor, or foreign workers who would otherwise be deported anyway.

You're not talking about punishment. You're talking about blood revenge.


Funny how those that preach and preach that taxes are bad, because the government can't do anything right, and perfectly willing to give government the ability to enact blood revenge.

I don't think they've thought their cunning plan though.
 
2013-04-03 11:25:28 PM

hardinparamedic: Duck_of_Doom: Exempt them from receiving disability benefits, Medicare, welfare, etc., just as criminals are proscribed guns and voting.  No tab for our taxes to pick up.  There are certainly segments in our society that would get behind that.

Ah, so just create more criminal acts, then? Make a criminal dependant on the system by crippling them, then toss them out on the streets to starve?

You're an idiot if you don't see the obvious problem with this approach in a modern day and age. Of course, considering this is the same stupidity applied to the mentally ill and drug addicted in the United States, and the same mentality of a large group of people, it's no surprise we have one of the most violent societies among first world countries.


That response was more of a "compassionate conservative" response and mental exercise.  I agree with you.  If that were to ever happen, you're throwing people into terrible, unlivable conditions, and the death penalty would seem a mercy.
 
2013-04-03 11:26:00 PM

malaktaus: Daedalus27: malaktaus: If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?

Because there was no death involved in this case, only horrific injury.  The death penalty is about harm reduction by eliminating the most dangerous individuals from society so that they cannot commit any future harm.  So far the penalty (10 years in jail and 1m in restitution) doesn't seem too far off from what he may get in many countries. The only difference is the paralyzation if he doesn't pay up and that seems excessive and counterproductive as you will be unable to collect the restitution if the criminal cannot meaningfully work anymore (please note, I know paralyzed individuals can be productive members of the workforce, but this is a unskilled person with a criminal record so that the job prospects are minimal beyond manual labor which has been taken away as a job catagory if he is paralyzed)

I find your argument deeply unconvincing and somewhat dishonest. First of all, the death penalty is in no way about harm reduction. That's a clear excuse when we can just as easily, and probably somewhat more cheaply, toss them in a deep, dark hole and throw away the key. The idea that the death penalty is about harm reduction is, frankly, an insult to my intelligence. That leaves vengeance, and that's really it if we're going to be honest about it. This is vengeance in exactly the same sense as the death penalty, and hey, if what you want is vengeance, just come out and say it, the hypocrisy and dishonesty make me sick. But keep in mind that if vengeance is our goal, this sort of "barbaric" behavior is in no way worse than what we do ourselves.


Some people who have a superficial understanding or arguments use revenge as the purpose.  It may be the motivation for some, but that is simplistic and fails to understand how the death penalty should be used.

The death penalty is absolutely about harm reduction.  As long as the most depraved and damaged individuals who refuse to conform to societies rules are still around, they can continue to do harm.  LWOP (life without the possibility of parole) still allows these individuals to continue to harm society by forcing members of the public to tend to their biological requirements (feed and care) which presents them an opportunity to assualt and kill staff members or potentially escape custody and do harm elsewhere.  Furthermore, cell phones illicitly acquired and other communications methods allow individuals to continue to do harm and run criminal enterprises that damage society and kill the public beyond the walls of prison.

The only way to end the harm that a very small minority cause and protect society is to eliminate them from living.  The death penalty should be reserved for the most dangerous and violent individuals, but it is absolutely necessary.  Multiple murders, murder for hire, and various other special circumstances beyond simple killing and a long criminal profile should qualify as the average criminal simply doesn't need this profoundly severe method. How do you punish someone who is LWOP who does harm when you have already taken away all privileges possible? The only way to handle and control these individuals is to have the tool available to eliminate them.
 
2013-04-03 11:26:29 PM

impaler: Funny how those that preach and preach that taxes are bad, because the government can't do anything right, and are perfectly willing to give government the ability to enact blood revenge.


FTFM
 
2013-04-03 11:29:39 PM

dbaggins: dark brew: What? How would it be different if the guy was 25 when the crime occurred? It still wouldn't benefit the victim or society.

the issue is responsibility.   there is a difference between a 14 year old and a 25 year old.  Not as much as westerners might insist, but there is a difference.  I don't think anyone would be suggesting this is the perpetrator had been 7, even with Sharia Law.


Maybe Saudis expect 14 year-olds to act like adults and raise them to do so.  Lotta 14 year-olds and younger children take on head-of-household responsibilities while parents do meth.  Other cultures expect and prepare for childhood to end before Americans think it should.
 
2013-04-03 11:29:57 PM

impaler: impaler: Funny how those that preach and preach that taxes are bad, because the government can't do anything right, and are perfectly willing to give government the ability to enact blood revenge.

FTFM


I see your point, and am switching sides on this one.
 
2013-04-03 11:35:43 PM
Comparison of Saudi and U. S. Crimes Rates, with rankings among other nations.
 
2013-04-03 11:37:18 PM

Son of Thunder: What exactly do you think justice is? Justice is about desert. If you you good deed X, then you deserve a reward of roughly equal magnitude to X.  If you do evil deed Y, then you deserve a punishment of roughly equal magnitude to Y. It's social algebra; you balance the equation by doing on one side what was done on the other side.  "Jollies" do not enter into the equation.


That is a child's view of karma.  Deed X = Reward X doesn't happen in reality.  Often good deeds go unrecognized, evil deeds go unpunished, and sometimes good deeds are met with overwhelmingly evil deeds.  Justice is about balance, that is true.  But equality is not making both sides of the spreadsheet mirrors of each other.  If one side is in the negative, bringing the other side into the negative doesn't make things even.
 
2013-04-03 11:41:29 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Comparison of Saudi and U. S. Crimes Rates, with rankings among other nations.


The Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution.
 
2013-04-03 11:41:59 PM

impaler: impaler: Funny how those that preach and preach that taxes are bad, because the government can't do anything right, and are perfectly willing to give government the ability to enact blood revenge.

FTFM


I would say it goes to the protection of society from enemies being the main critical function of government and one of the sole reasons taxes should be collected (as stated by the most extremist members of this viewpoint).  That is why they tend to be strongly pro-defense.  Punishing criminals is an extension of defending the nation from the domestic enemies who are interfering with the members of society.
 
2013-04-03 11:46:22 PM

GreenSun: What most people seem to fear is "What if you were wrongfully convicted?!" and that's why people tend to shy away from approving of "barbaric punishments".


You think that's why the Constitution has the whole "cruel and unusual" think, or are you just throwing out a lame strawman?

What if they had all the evidence against you, including videos, recordings, dna evidence and all that? Would you approve of those punishments or are you fine with some guy who raped and murdered entire families only getting 10 years in jail before he goes free again?

Because those are the only choices.

Straw-man with a side of false dichotomy.   Run along now, the adults are trying to have a conversation.
 
2013-04-03 11:46:43 PM

hardinparamedic: BarkingUnicorn: Comparison of Saudi and U. S. Crimes Rates, with rankings among other nations.

The Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution.


An ancient sheet of paper with more things carved out of it than a thanksgiving turkey?
 
2013-04-03 11:48:01 PM

BarkingUnicorn: dbaggins: dark brew: What? How would it be different if the guy was 25 when the crime occurred? It still wouldn't benefit the victim or society.

the issue is responsibility.   there is a difference between a 14 year old and a 25 year old.  Not as much as westerners might insist, but there is a difference.  I don't think anyone would be suggesting this is the perpetrator had been 7, even with Sharia Law.

Maybe Saudis expect 14 year-olds to act like adults and raise them to do so.  Lotta 14 year-olds and younger children take on head-of-household responsibilities while parents do meth.  Other cultures expect and prepare for childhood to end before Americans think it should.


This is true historically, as well, and is something I have been studying. Robert Frost, my favorite poet, thought in abstract terms and took on personal responsibility from age sixteen on. One of the U.S. presidents, I believe it was Quincy Adams, had the Bible memorized at age 8 and successfully debated it with elderly delegates at age ten. For the longest while, I've supposed that age and responsibility is a social construct; however, I am currently seeing data that suggests the cerebral cortex is not developed until after the adolescent years. This empirical data seems to conflict with historical data and present-day examples of responsible and abstract-thinking adolescents, which confuses me.
 
2013-04-03 11:50:41 PM

super_grass: An ancient sheet of paper with more things carved out of it than a thanksgiving turkey?


We're talking about the bible, now?
 
2013-04-03 11:52:24 PM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: An ancient sheet of paper with more things carved out of it than a thanksgiving turkey?

We're talking about the bible, now?


Yeah, now we don't have to abstain from pork. That's a good thing.
 
2013-04-03 11:53:09 PM

super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: An ancient sheet of paper with more things carved out of it than a thanksgiving turkey?

We're talking about the bible, now?

Yeah, now we don't have to abstain from pork. That's a good thing.


But we can still hate gays and nonbelievers! Jackpot!
 
2013-04-03 11:58:17 PM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: An ancient sheet of paper with more things carved out of it than a thanksgiving turkey?

We're talking about the bible, now?

Yeah, now we don't have to abstain from pork. That's a good thing.

But we can still hate gays and nonbelievers! Jackpot!


YAY BIBLE BASHING!  Hey, a small portion of atheists don't support inter racial marriages, so IN YOUR FACE ALL ATHEISTS!

/atheist
//not a militant one
 
2013-04-03 11:59:42 PM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: An ancient sheet of paper with more things carved out of it than a thanksgiving turkey?

We're talking about the bible, now?

Yeah, now we don't have to abstain from pork. That's a good thing.

But we can still hate gays and nonbelievers! Jackpot!


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

Oh man, you sure showed these dumb saudi christians!
 
2013-04-04 12:20:12 AM

super_grass: Oh man, you sure showed these dumb saudi christians!


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-04 12:27:25 AM

fusillade762: When was the last time we executed a 14-year-old?


August 28, 1955

June 16, 1944

So, in living memory.

And it is quite possible he was innocent. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/03/new-evidence-could-clear-14-yea r -old-executed-by-south-carolina/
 
2013-04-04 12:29:50 AM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: Oh man, you sure showed these dumb saudi christians!

[media.tumblr.com image 450x268]


I think that was his point.
 
2013-04-04 12:32:00 AM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: Oh man, you sure showed these dumb saudi christians!

[media.tumblr.com image 450x268]


I'd accuse you of playing dumb, but I'm not so sure about the 'playing' part.
 
2013-04-04 12:36:05 AM

seventypercent: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'. But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)

(Granted, the teachings of Jesus are not particularly popular among his followers.)


Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.  Luke 22:36
 
2013-04-04 12:46:10 AM

super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: Oh man, you sure showed these dumb saudi christians!

[media.tumblr.com image 450x268]

I'd accuse you of playing dumb, but I'm not so sure about the 'playing' part.


My post was a direct response to your absurd statement.

So, again.

media.tumblr.com

Maybe you can cry to the mods like you did over your posts where you justified the Holocaust as the Jews fault.
 
2013-04-04 12:53:39 AM

hardinparamedic: BarkingUnicorn: Comparison of Saudi and U. S. Crimes Rates, with rankings among other nations.

The Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution.


So that explains the differences in crime rates? :-)

Also, punishment is not the sole variable.  Cultural differences factor into the equation too.
 
2013-04-04 12:54:48 AM

super_grass: hardinparamedic: BarkingUnicorn: Comparison of Saudi and U. S. Crimes Rates, with rankings among other nations.

The Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution.

An ancient sheet of paper with more things carved out of it than a thanksgiving turkey?


No, dullard, a living, ever-evolving social contract.
 
2013-04-04 12:57:40 AM

Skywolf the Scribbler: This is true historically, as well, and is something I have been studying. Robert Frost, my favorite poet, thought in abstract terms and took on personal responsibility from age sixteen on. One of the U.S. presidents, I believe it was Quincy Adams, had the Bible memorized at age 8 and successfully debated it with elderly delegates at age ten. For the longest while, I've supposed that age and responsibility is a social construct; however, I am currently seeing data that suggests the cerebral cortex is not developed until after the adolescent years. This empirical data seems to conflict with historical data and present-day examples of responsible and abstract-thinking adolescents, which confuses me.


One can see things in tea leaves as well as in data.
 
2013-04-04 01:08:57 AM

MisterRonbo: fusillade762: When was the last time we executed a 14-year-old?

August 28, 1955

June 16, 1944

So, in living memory.

And it is quite possible he was innocent. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/03/new-evidence-could-clear-14-yea r -old-executed-by-south-carolina/


It's pretty clear-cut he didn't get a fair trial. Or indeed any trial. The only real question now is what scumbag got away with murdering two little girls and died comfortably in his bed because a little boy was electrocuted in his place.
 
2013-04-04 01:10:17 AM
I'm sure some of you bloodthirsty assholes who are celebrating this would just love to wield the scalpel, too. Like Josef Mengele. Sickening.

Fact is that most of the time a stabbing doesn't result in paralysis. The victim in this case just got unlucky. Unless you're  happy to deliberately paralyse every knife assailant because "Hey, she only knifed him in the spleen but he could have been paralysed!11!1!", the punishment for the same crime is going to vary not because of intent, but because of blind chance.

For that matter, sometimes a person gets paralysed due to a single freak punch. So logically, if Billy Bob, 14, punches Cletus in the school playground he should have an incision made in his spinal cord, amirite? Between which vertebrae?
 
2013-04-04 01:10:28 AM
They should get the Iron Sheikh or Sergent Slaughter to do a backbreaker to him/


BAH GAWD KING, HES BROKEN IN HALF!
 
2013-04-04 01:19:32 AM

Trapper439: I'm sure some of you bloodthirsty assholes who are celebrating this would just love to wield the scalpel, too. Like Josef Mengele. Sickening.

Fact is that most of the time a stabbing doesn't result in paralysis. The victim in this case just got unlucky. Unless you're  happy to deliberately paralyse every knife assailant because "Hey, she only knifed him in the spleen but he could have been paralysed!11!1!", the punishment for the same crime is going to vary not because of intent, but because of blind chance.

For that matter, sometimes a person gets paralysed due to a single freak punch. So logically, if Billy Bob, 14, punches Cletus in the school playground he should have an incision made in his spinal cord, amirite? Between which vertebrae?


The assumed intent of stabbing someone is to kill them. The criminal should not receive mercy due to his incompetence.
 
2013-04-04 01:19:41 AM

i.r.id10t: seventypercent: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'. But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)

(Granted, the teachings of Jesus are not particularly popular among his followers.)

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.  Luke 22:36


That verse is often cherry-picked.  Luke 22:36-38:

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That's enough!" he replied.

Jesus wanted sword rather badly.  When he learned there were two already present he said, "That's enough," rescinding his order to sell cloaks and buy swords.  Two swords were not enough for an armed rebellion or to defend Jesus; they were enough to fulfill the prophecy.  They were symbolic. Possession of swords was a mark of criminals.  Isaiah foretold that the Messiah would be labeled a criminal ("numbered with the transgressors").
 
2013-04-04 01:21:08 AM

Gyrfalcon: MisterRonbo: fusillade762: When was the last time we executed a 14-year-old?

August 28, 1955

June 16, 1944

So, in living memory.

And it is quite possible he was innocent. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/03/new-evidence-could-clear-14-yea r -old-executed-by-south-carolina/

It's pretty clear-cut he didn't get a fair trial. Or indeed any trial. The only real question now is what scumbag got away with murdering two little girls and died comfortably in his bed because a little boy was electrocuted in his place.


Damn you, Obama!
 
2013-04-04 01:22:47 AM

Daedalus27: impaler: impaler: Funny how those that preach and preach that taxes are bad, because the government can't do anything right, and are perfectly willing to give government the ability to enact blood revenge.

FTFM

I would say it goes to the protection of society from enemies being the main critical function of government and one of the sole reasons taxes should be collected (as stated by the most extremist members of this viewpoint).  That is why they tend to be strongly pro-defense.  Punishing criminals is an extension of defending the nation from the domestic enemies who are interfering with the members of society.


Good theory, but it's more about authoritarianism.

Link
 
2013-04-04 01:23:18 AM

Gyrfalcon: But not everyone's mindset has advanced past the medieval village, not even here in modern, 21st century America.


Amen to that.
 
2013-04-04 01:28:11 AM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: Oh man, you sure showed these dumb saudi christians!

[media.tumblr.com image 450x268]

I'd accuse you of playing dumb, but I'm not so sure about the 'playing' part.

My post was a direct response to your absurd statement.

So, again.

[media.tumblr.com image 450x268]

Maybe you can cry to the mods like you did over your posts where you justified the Holocaust as the Jews fault.


Thread's about whether or not the Saudi response to one of their criminals is appropriate and you somehow turn that into half-assed attacks on Christians for not following their doctrine, as if that was somehow relevant.

You must have as much self awareness of the guy's soon to be paralyzed lower half.
 
2013-04-04 01:33:12 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Maybe Saudis expect 14 year-olds to act like adults and raise them to do so.


uhm, yeah.  I said as much in my post.    In Arabia they might be adults, in western nations they are babies.  The truth is probably somewhere in between.
 
2013-04-04 01:59:11 AM

mexican bathtub cheese: Can we please nuke this shiathole off my planet now?


I think I found half the problem.

/The other half is "god's planet".
 
2013-04-04 01:59:44 AM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-04-04 02:02:18 AM

super_grass: Thread's about whether or not the Saudi response to one of their criminals is appropriate and you somehow turn that into half-assed attacks on Christians for not following their doctrine, as if that was somehow relevant.

You must have as much self awareness of the guy's soon to be paralyzed lower half.


So because I make a mocking and absurd comment in response to your absurd comment about how the United States Constitution prevents you from getting your bloodlust on, I'm somehow "attacking Christians" because I treat you with about as much seriousness as I ever have?

data.whicdn.com

Your post, especially the part about the imaginary "Saudi Christian" strawmen, makes about as much since as a Glenn Beck chalkboard flowchart.

www.wnd.com

This is you. You are now Glenn Beck.
 
2013-04-04 02:20:10 AM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: Thread's about whether or not the Saudi response to one of their criminals is appropriate and you somehow turn that into half-assed attacks on Christians for not following their doctrine, as if that was somehow relevant.

You must have as much self awareness of the guy's soon to be paralyzed lower half.

So because I make a mocking and absurd comment in response to your absurd comment about how the United States Constitution prevents you from getting your bloodlust on, I'm somehow "attacking Christians" because I treat you with about as much seriousness as I ever have?

[data.whicdn.com image 400x225]

Your post, especially the part about the imaginary "Saudi Christian" strawmen, makes about as much since as a Glenn Beck chalkboard flowchart.

[www.wnd.com image 620x306]

This is you. You are now Glenn Beck.

25.media.tumblr.com


I.. I wasn't serious! And I never cared about what you s... said! Oh by the way, you're dumb! You're a dumb-dumb that I don't take ser... seriously... like GLENN BECK! Ha, that sh... showed you! Um... strawman, strawman!
 
2013-04-04 02:33:11 AM
It's always a little troubling to read the internet mouth breathers' emotional word vomit that governments should brutally kill people.

We're truly only living in the initial stages of civilized society, if we can even call it that.
 
2013-04-04 02:38:42 AM

impaler: Daedalus27: impaler: impaler: Funny how those that preach and preach that taxes are bad, because the government can't do anything right, and are perfectly willing to give government the ability to enact blood revenge.

FTFM

I would say it goes to the protection of society from enemies being the main critical function of government and one of the sole reasons taxes should be collected (as stated by the most extremist members of this viewpoint).  That is why they tend to be strongly pro-defense.  Punishing criminals is an extension of defending the nation from the domestic enemies who are interfering with the members of society.

Good theory, but it's more about authoritarianism.

Link


While that may be a criticism about the present conservative movement, generally speaking there has always been a tinge of "law and order" to it that I think stems from the desire to defend against threats internal and external.  Counting on authoritative control is all well and good when your party controls the levers of power.  Right now they aren't so thrilled with the Democratic control and Obama's drone strike kill lists and such. Of course being short sighted tends to be part and parcel of the present repubilcan leadership (and politicians in general).
 
2013-04-04 03:43:32 AM

super_grass: I.. I wasn't serious! And I never cared about what you s... said! Oh by the way, you're dumb! You're a dumb-dumb that I don't take ser... seriously... like GLENN BECK! Ha, that sh... showed you! Um... strawman, strawman!


cyberstalkerhelp.files.wordpress.com

Ladies and gentlemen, the internet crusader. Able to cry to the mods and have his posts removed when he realizes they'll be used against him in the future. Defends genocide, brutality, torture and violence in a single keystroke!

u18chan.com
 
2013-04-04 03:54:27 AM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: I.. I wasn't serious! And I never cared about what you s... said! Oh by the way, you're dumb! You're a dumb-dumb that I don't take ser... seriously... like GLENN BECK! Ha, that sh... showed you! Um... strawman, strawman!

[cyberstalkerhelp.files.wordpress.com image 271x299]

Ladies and gentlemen, the internet crusader. Able to cry to the mods and have his posts removed when he realizes they'll be used against him in the future. Defends genocide, brutality, torture and violence in a single keystroke!

[u18chan.com image 311x313]


Ho-lee-shiat, have you been grinding that axe for almost a month?  Time to get yourself diagnosed, son. Modern pharmaceuticals can do wonders for high-functioning autism, or in your case, a terminal case of the buttmad.
 
2013-04-04 03:57:00 AM

mexican bathtub cheese: Can we please nuke this shiathole off my planet now?


How dare you question a trusted and close ally of the United States you terrorist scum.
 
2013-04-04 04:15:35 AM

super_grass: Ho-lee-shiat, have you been grinding that axe for almost a month?  Time to get yourself diagnosed, son. Modern pharmaceuticals can do wonders for high-functioning autism, or in your case, a terminal case of the buttmad.


Ah, so you're also an internet doctor capable of diagnosing people you've never met with a disease they don't even fit in the spectrum of?

You've spent this thread championing and defending torture for the sake of bloodlust. Why wouldn't I point out something that I have you FARKied for?

i.imgur.com

There's no axe to grind, and no "buttmad" as you try to claim. Only pointing out a continuing pattern of you're either being completely stupid and inhuman - in which case you really should seek help from a psychiatrist before you murder someone, or shoot up a small rural Connecticut school; or you're choosing the most offensive topics you can defend to troll.

Which is it? Be honest.
 
2013-04-04 04:50:34 AM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: Ho-lee-shiat, have you been grinding that axe for almost a month?  Time to get yourself diagnosed, son. Modern pharmaceuticals can do wonders for high-functioning autism, or in your case, a terminal case of the buttmad.

Ah, so you're also an internet doctor capable of diagnosing people you've never met with a disease they don't even fit in the spectrum of?

You've spent this thread championing and defending torture for the sake of bloodlust. Why wouldn't I point out something that I have you FARKied for?

[i.imgur.com image 363x42]

There's no axe to grind, and no "buttmad" as you try to claim. Only pointing out a continuing pattern of you're either being completely stupid and inhuman - in which case you really should seek help from a psychiatrist before you murder someone, or shoot up a small rural Connecticut school; or you're choosing the most offensive topics you can defend to troll.

Which is it? Be honest.



Oh dear god, you're serious.

Let me guess: Jew, Ukrainian, or Armenian? You're clearly on the internet to defend his proud, fallen people from another shoah/holomodor/officially unrecognized historical event. Come on, out with it, and I'll school you accordingly before I get the last word.

Protip: Israel does not officially recognize the Armenian genocide and the Ukrainian dirt farmers picked a fight against a world power in order to whiteknight their land-owning barons and were rightfully put in their place.

i628.photobucket.com

Now bath me with your tears of ineffectual rage. Comrade Stalin demands your quota!
 
2013-04-04 05:04:06 AM
I'm okay with this dot jpg
 
2013-04-04 05:09:52 AM

super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: Ho-lee-shiat, have you been grinding that axe for almost a month?  Time to get yourself diagnosed, son. Modern pharmaceuticals can do wonders for high-functioning autism, or in your case, a terminal case of the buttmad.

Ah, so you're also an internet doctor capable of diagnosing people you've never met with a disease they don't even fit in the spectrum of?

You've spent this thread championing and defending torture for the sake of bloodlust. Why wouldn't I point out something that I have you FARKied for?

[i.imgur.com image 363x42]

There's no axe to grind, and no "buttmad" as you try to claim. Only pointing out a continuing pattern of you're either being completely stupid and inhuman - in which case you really should seek help from a psychiatrist before you murder someone, or shoot up a small rural Connecticut school; or you're choosing the most offensive topics you can defend to troll.

Which is it? Be honest.


Oh dear god, you're serious.

Let me guess: Jew, Ukrainian, or Armenian? You're clearly on the internet to defend his proud, fallen people from another shoah/holomodor/officially unrecognized historical event. Come on, out with it, and I'll school you accordingly before I get the last word.

Protip: Israel does not officially recognize the Armenian genocide and the Ukrainian dirt farmers picked a fight against a world power in order to whiteknight their land-owning barons and were rightfully put in their place.

[i628.photobucket.com image 309x360]

Now bath me with your tears of ineffectual rage. Comrade Stalin demands your quota!


You are garbage.
 
2013-04-04 05:19:05 AM

super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: Ho-lee-shiat, have you been grinding that axe for almost a month?  Time to get yourself diagnosed, son. Modern pharmaceuticals can do wonders for high-functioning autism, or in your case, a terminal case of the buttmad.

Ah, so you're also an internet doctor capable of diagnosing people you've never met with a disease they don't even fit in the spectrum of?

You've spent this thread championing and defending torture for the sake of bloodlust. Why wouldn't I point out something that I have you FARKied for?

[i.imgur.com image 363x42]

There's no axe to grind, and no "buttmad" as you try to claim. Only pointing out a continuing pattern of you're either being completely stupid and inhuman - in which case you really should seek help from a psychiatrist before you murder someone, or shoot up a small rural Connecticut school; or you're choosing the most offensive topics you can defend to troll.

Which is it? Be honest.


Oh dear god, you're serious.

Let me guess: Jew, Ukrainian, or Armenian? You're clearly on the internet to defend his proud, fallen people from another shoah/holomodor/officially unrecognized historical event. Come on, out with it, and I'll school you accordingly before I get the last word.

Protip: Israel does not officially recognize the Armenian genocide and the Ukrainian dirt farmers picked a fight against a world power in order to whiteknight their land-owning barons and were rightfully put in their place.

[i628.photobucket.com image 309x360]

Now bath me with your tears of ineffectual rage. Comrade Stalin demands your quota!


None of the above. I'm a mixture of sixth generation Italian and third generation Spanish. If you want to hash out religious origins, I'm half "We get to use condoms" Episcopalian and half Hellfire and Brimstone Baptist.

Also, I really don't give a flying fark what Israel thinks.

But yes. I agree with Abacus9. You're garbage. And a really, blatantly, obvious troll.
 
2013-04-04 05:22:43 AM

Abacus9: super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: Ho-lee-shiat, have you been grinding that axe for almost a month?  Time to get yourself diagnosed, son. Modern pharmaceuticals can do wonders for high-functioning autism, or in your case, a terminal case of the buttmad.

Ah, so you're also an internet doctor capable of diagnosing people you've never met with a disease they don't even fit in the spectrum of?

You've spent this thread championing and defending torture for the sake of bloodlust. Why wouldn't I point out something that I have you FARKied for?

[i.imgur.com image 363x42]

There's no axe to grind, and no "buttmad" as you try to claim. Only pointing out a continuing pattern of you're either being completely stupid and inhuman - in which case you really should seek help from a psychiatrist before you murder someone, or shoot up a small rural Connecticut school; or you're choosing the most offensive topics you can defend to troll.

Which is it? Be honest.


Oh dear god, you're serious.

Let me guess: Jew, Ukrainian, or Armenian? You're clearly on the internet to defend his proud, fallen people from another shoah/holomodor/officially unrecognized historical event. Come on, out with it, and I'll school you accordingly before I get the last word.

Protip: Israel does not officially recognize the Armenian genocide and the Ukrainian dirt farmers picked a fight against a world power in order to whiteknight their land-owning barons and were rightfully put in their place.

[i628.photobucket.com image 309x360]

Now bath me with your tears of ineffectual rage. Comrade Stalin demands your quota!

You are garbage.


Garbage is the guy that the Saudis plan to paralyze. Don't tell me you're not excited or even okay to see his legs get taken away!
 
2013-04-04 05:27:59 AM

hardinparamedic: super_grass: hardinparamedic: super_grass: Ho-lee-shiat, have you been grinding that axe for almost a month?  Time to get yourself diagnosed, son. Modern pharmaceuticals can do wonders for high-functioning autism, or in your case, a terminal case of the buttmad.

Ah, so you're also an internet doctor capable of diagnosing people you've never met with a disease they don't even fit in the spectrum of?

You've spent this thread championing and defending torture for the sake of bloodlust. Why wouldn't I point out something that I have you FARKied for?

[i.imgur.com image 363x42]

There's no axe to grind, and no "buttmad" as you try to claim. Only pointing out a continuing pattern of you're either being completely stupid and inhuman - in which case you really should seek help from a psychiatrist before you murder someone, or shoot up a small rural Connecticut school; or you're choosing the most offensive topics you can defend to troll.

Which is it? Be honest.


Oh dear god, you're serious.

Let me guess: Jew, Ukrainian, or Armenian? You're clearly on the internet to defend his proud, fallen people from another shoah/holomodor/officially unrecognized historical event. Come on, out with it, and I'll school you accordingly before I get the last word.

Protip: Israel does not officially recognize the Armenian genocide and the Ukrainian dirt farmers picked a fight against a world power in order to whiteknight their land-owning barons and were rightfully put in their place.

[i628.photobucket.com image 309x360]

Now bath me with your tears of ineffectual rage. Comrade Stalin demands your quota!

None of the above. I'm a mixture of sixth generation Italian and third generation Spanish. If you want to hash out religious origins, I'm half "We get to use condoms" Episcopalian and half Hellfire and Brimstone Baptist.

Also, I really don't give a flying fark what Israel thinks.

But yes. I agree with Abacus9. You're garbage. And a really, blatantly, obvious troll.


Finally conceding, eh?

I knew you got nothing aside from ad hominems. Even the Ukranians made a stand before volunteering for the slaughter. Not even with your sock puppet can you actually make a coherent point.

Weak troll, 3/10. Now welcome to my ignore list.
 
2013-04-04 05:28:35 AM

super_grass: Garbage is the guy that the Saudis plan to paralyze. Don't tell me you're not excited or even okay to see his legs get taken away!


Why would I be okay with that, again?

Oh, that's right. I live in a modern, first world country who's founders lived in an age of arbitrary torture and murder at the will of their monarchs and barons, and at the scamper of the various religious factions of Europe. People who realized 224 years before we were having this conversation that mutliation, torture, and barbarism solved nothing, and thus created the 4th, 5th, and 8th Amendments, despite their flaws as men.

So no. I'm not okay with it.

It solves nothing. It does not prevent further crimes. It does not serve the benefit of society. It does nothing but uphold the assinine and backwards belief of a national people that, without the benefit of oil money, would be shanking themselves for a little slice of the desert to consider their fiefdoms rather than playing the pipe of "Dance Puppets, Dance".

There is nothing "Just" about severing the spine of a man. Hell. Shooting him in the head and leaving him to die would be more humane and serve justice far more.
 
2013-04-04 05:41:25 AM

super_grass: Garbage is the guy that the Saudis plan to paralyze. Don't tell me you're not excited or even okay to see his legs get taken away!


As I stated, I'm okay with it. I'm not frothing-at-the-mouth giddy about it. Their country, their laws, and the guy has it coming.
 
2013-04-04 05:46:13 AM

GreenSun: Personally, if someone steals, I don't think chopping off his hands would be satisfying enough. If someone stole $1,000,000 from me, I'd rather have the money back and have the guy imprisoned rather than see him get his hands chopped off, which is pretty worthless to me.


How about both of those things? Would that make you happy?

The idea is to prevent crime from happening in the first place. I think chopping the legs off USA gang-bangers then putting them back out on the street might have a more chilling effect on gang membership than simply putting people out of sight for a couple of years (only to reappear with a few more tattoos then carry on as before).
 
2013-04-04 05:47:54 AM

hardinparamedic: There is nothing "Just" about severing the spine of a man. Hell. Shooting him in the head and leaving him to die would be more humane and serve justice far more.


But be less of a deterrent to anybody else who's thinking about sticking knives in people.
 
2013-04-04 06:23:03 AM

Joce678: The idea is to prevent crime from happening in the first place. I think chopping the legs off USA gang-bangers then putting them back out on the street might have a more chilling effect on gang membership than simply putting people out of sight for a couple of years (only to reappear with a few more tattoos then carry on as before).


Any gang-banger would be freaked out by seeing severed legs in the street.
 
2013-04-04 07:14:49 AM
pjmedia.com
 
2013-04-04 07:59:51 AM

Joce678: GreenSun: Personally, if someone steals, I don't think chopping off his hands would be satisfying enough. If someone stole $1,000,000 from me, I'd rather have the money back and have the guy imprisoned rather than see him get his hands chopped off, which is pretty worthless to me.

How about both of those things? Would that make you happy?

The idea is to prevent crime from happening in the first place. I think chopping the legs off USA gang-bangers then putting them back out on the street might have a more chilling effect on gang membership than simply putting people out of sight for a couple of years (only to reappear with a few more tattoos then carry on as before).


Why stop at gang-bangers? We could also do it to tax-evaders, speeders, jay-walkers*...

We could be a crime/leg free society in no time.

*Would be very effective at stopping recidivism with this crime.
 
2013-04-04 09:15:22 AM

Lord Snoopy's G.P.E.H.: Why didn't he just come out once, and scream it?


How is there no "done in one" here? 
That's beautiful.  Perfect.
I mean... the reference isn't obscure, is it?  Is it?

/is it?
 
2013-04-04 10:22:31 AM
I'm pretty much OK with this.

Imagine the reduction in recidivism in the US if violent criminals had to suffer the same bodily harm they routinely inflict on innocent people on a daily basis.

After a couple rounds of that mess, I don't imagine they'd be able to muster the strength to pull it off.
 
2013-04-04 11:22:43 AM
The middle east is a bloody turd in the bottom of the toilet bowl of humanity.
 
2013-04-04 12:04:40 PM

hardinparamedic: "Sharia Law" as used by paranoid right-wing idiots does not mean what you think it means.


That's the joke, see. The foot-sink worriers in Tennessee are ignorant charklefarks.

/I was impressed as hell that my phone spell-corrected "Shari'a" for me.
 
2013-04-04 03:33:24 PM

Daedalus27: malaktaus: If you support the death penalty- and, what, 85% of Americans do?- why would you consider this sick?

Because there was no death involved in this case, only horrific injury.  The death penalty is about harm reduction by eliminating the most dangerous individuals from society so that they cannot commit any future harm.  So far the penalty (10 years in jail and 1m in restitution) doesn't seem too far off from what he may get in many countries. The only difference is the paralyzation if he doesn't pay up and that seems excessive and counterproductive as you will be unable to collect the restitution if the criminal cannot meaningfully work anymore (please note, I know paralyzed individuals can be productive members of the workforce, but this is a unskilled person with a criminal record so that the job prospects are minimal beyond manual labor which has been taken away as a job catagory if he is paralyzed)


Why? If he gets into a chair they can push him around with heavy loads like a trolley.
 
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