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(The Sun)   Some spineless brute with a knife stabs his childhood pal leaving him paralyzed. Saudi Arabian court decides to go the "eye for an eye" route   (thesun.co.uk) divider line 200
    More: Sick, Saudi Arabia, human rights group, Amnesty International  
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16747 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Apr 2013 at 8:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-03 09:05:25 PM

impaler: SevenizGud: if it is torture to do this to this criminal, then what would has actions towards the other guy be categorized as?

It would be torture. Which is specifically why the criminal is a "criminal."


The heinousness of torture is composed of horror and outrage.  The outrage is for the perp's calculated intention to horrifically harm another human being.  Combined, these factors make torture "worse" than an accident that produces the same harm.
 
2013-04-03 09:06:26 PM

Gawdzila: Wow, buncha sickos here.  I see some people have trouble with the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" lesson.


It's not about making a right, it's about making people happy.
 
2013-04-03 09:06:50 PM
We need to be more like the Saudis when it comes to violent crime.

If you harm someone else, it's going to come back and do to you what you did to someone else. It's a deterrent, it evens the score, and it gives people catharsis.  Hell, I wouldn't mind if they extended the death penalty for repeat offenders and some of the more heinous violent crimes.

/ supports capital punishment
// it's the ultimate cleanser
 
2013-04-03 09:06:50 PM

Fade2black: I'm ok with this. I sometimes wonder if the eye for an eye response was implemented here in the states.


I sometimes wonder if I'm communicating a thought to someone and I.
 
2013-04-03 09:08:20 PM
benrwoodard.com

So, we just skipped right past tooth for tooth?
 
2013-04-03 09:08:25 PM

fusillade762: That's all fine and dandy until some rich person who hates you stabs you, hands the court a wad of money and waltzes off.


Oh that's adorable. You don't think I considered that:

Life is not fair. Get used to it.

There is nothing YOU *fusilade762* can do to change that.

Sure it's unfair and cruel.

But that's the problem I have with most normal people: you don't accept that life isn't fair. Unless you're willing to kill and die for changing something, shut your pie hole and continue on with your meaningless drivel.
 
2013-04-03 09:09:26 PM

Bravo Two: Meh. Zero farks given. There are occasions where the victim should get a good shot in at the attacker. Rapist? Punishment is rape by horse using sand impregnated lube. fark civility.


The rape imagery is disturbing on so many levels.
 
2013-04-03 09:09:51 PM

lumiere: Well, that sucks. If I'm not mistaken, Saudi Islamic law allows the victim's family to make the decision and if the family's victim decides to take money as compensation for the crime, than the perpetrator can be set free. But it's entirely up to the victim's family if they are willing to forgive.

/someone please correct me if I'm wrong


I believe I saw something about the refusal of blood money in this case.

Then there was the woman blinded by acid who spared her abuser  the same fate as the syringe hovered over his eyes.  Fark called her a hero.

I thought it was a great troll. :-)
 
2013-04-03 09:11:30 PM
FTA Amnesty International, the human rights group, said the sentence "should on no account be carried out".

Ann Harrison, a boss at Amnesty, said: "Paralysing someone as punishment for a crime would be torture.


I'm sure the Saudis will respect that position.

She is the boss after all.
 
2013-04-03 09:11:46 PM

Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.


So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."
 
2013-04-03 09:15:47 PM

Lionel Mandrake: So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."


if it's a reasonable price, why not?
 
2013-04-03 09:16:41 PM

Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: That's all fine and dandy until some rich person who hates you stabs you, hands the court a wad of money and waltzes off.

Oh that's adorable. You don't think I considered that:

Life is not fair. Get used to it.

There is nothing YOU *fusilade762* can do to change that.

Sure it's unfair and cruel.

But that's the problem I have with most normal people: you don't accept that life isn't fair. Unless you're willing to kill and die for changing something, shut your pie hole and continue on with your meaningless drivel.


If you considered that, and came to that conclusion, you're not too bright.

You're right. Life isn't fair. It isn't fair this guy's victim is paralyzed for life. Living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality won't make life fair either. It will, however, mean you're living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality WHILE life isn't fair.
 
2013-04-03 09:17:39 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Lionel Mandrake: So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."

if it's a reasonable price, why not?


And it's not like they don't already have the privilege. At least the lower income scum will get their just desserts.
 
2013-04-03 09:18:22 PM

impaler: If you considered that, and came to that conclusion, you're not too bright.

You're right. Life isn't fair. It isn't fair this guy's victim is paralyzed for life. Living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality won't make life fair either. It will, however, mean you're living under a government that sponsors systematic brutality WHILE life isn't fair.


Oh no, it' still unfair. But it's a better alternative than to imprison him for life. Pay for his everything.

Cost wise anyway.
 
2013-04-03 09:19:33 PM

super_grass: And it's not like they don't already have the privilege. At least the lower income scum will get their just desserts.


Who said anything about just desserts? You seem to believe that everyone is equal.

If you have the means, do so. If you have the ability, manipulate, if you have the money, buy it.

The hell makes you thing justice has anything to do with dealing with criminals?
 
2013-04-03 09:20:16 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Lionel Mandrake: So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."

if it's a reasonable price, why not?


It makes perfect sense.  If you're an amoral asshole.
 
2013-04-03 09:21:09 PM

Lionel Mandrake: It makes perfect sense. If you're an amoral asshole.


*Sociopathic* is the politically correct term.

if you view all life as individuals instead of one giant spreadsheet, it becomes a LOT easier to deal with such things.
 
2013-04-03 09:22:07 PM
If you're a parent and you witness the rape and murder of your child, what would be your first reaction? Most of you would probably scream "I'm gonna kill that son of a whore!" or "I'm gonna rip his ass open and feed him to the dogs!".

Modern society believes that crime needs to be punished with something that is of equal value but somehow doesn't want to tackle hard issues like death, torture, molestation, and rape. True, it is very hard to put a value on a person's life, suffering, and forceful loss of virginity or the defilement of one's body against his or hell will. So what kind of punishment is fit?

Maybe punishment to be dealt on the criminal is really something that nobody can give a general answer to. Maybe it all depends on the victim (if he/she is alive), his family, or a combination of their views and the land's law.

Personally, if someone steals, I don't think chopping off his hands would be satisfying enough. If someone stole $1,000,000 from me, I'd rather have the money back and have the guy imprisoned rather than see him get his hands chopped off, which is pretty worthless to me. Getting his hands chopped off might make me think "Well you asked for it!" and laugh a bit as revenge, but his hands sure aren't worth the $1,000,000 I lost. As a victim, what I'd feel is that all the time and effort I spent in earning $1,000,000 was suddenly and forcefully converted into the temporary amusement of seeing a criminal's hands get chopped off. It's just not worth what I lost.

Now in the case of the victim who became paralyzed because he was stabbed in the back, that's a very different matter. Being paralyzed means you won't be able to work normally like other people. Your future is very much affected. You can't do the simple things that you should be doing if only your body were normal. I think this is a case where it would be great if the victim and the family would have a say in how the criminal should be punished.

Maybe they can have a few choices like what others have said. Have the criminal pay them the money that the victim would have earned in a lifetime if only he could work. If the criminal can't do that, then turn him into the victim's slave because he took away the victim's ability to do things for himself. If he can't do that, then they can always destroy his spine and turn him into a paralyzed person just like what he did to the victim. If the victim or the family forgives him, then the land's law can deal its own choice of punishment on the criminal, like maybe whipping him a few thousand times, chopping off body parts, torturing him, or just keeping him in jail where he can't harm anybody else.

What most people seem to fear is "What if you were wrongfully convicted?!" and that's why people tend to shy away from approving of "barbaric punishments". What if they had all the evidence against you, including videos, recordings, dna evidence and all that? Would you approve of those punishments or are you fine with some guy who raped and murdered entire families only getting 10 years in jail before he goes free again?
 
2013-04-03 09:22:46 PM
Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.
 
2013-04-03 09:24:28 PM

enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.


Why do you think it's a good idea?
 
2013-04-03 09:27:21 PM
Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

I wonder about the medical qualifications of the person who will execute this sentence.  Is he a neurosurgeon, a prison guard, a butcher hired for the occasion?
 
2013-04-03 09:27:51 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.

So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."


Actually, shari'a law allows for certain crimes to be paid for if the victim and his/her family agree to it. Murder is actually one of those crimes. The rationale is that it is actually better for the victim to be monetarily recompensed for their injuries and requited, than to make the society suffer more by an unending cycle of vengeance and retribution. Whether that idealized theory worked, of course, is another matter; but the idea was that the payment for a son's murder or a daughter's rape would end the matter and prevent the family from seeking further vengeance, because they had been "made whole" as we say in contract law.

So in this case, the idea that paying the paralyzed victim money instead of sticking his attacker in jail for some period of time is preferable in the eyes of shari'a law to our system which would put the criminal in jail and force the victim to seek money on his own (like in civil court). Only if the criminal can't or won't pay up is the victim allowed lex talionis, because the criminal hasn't paid his debt TO THE VICTIM. Society, in this equation, has no claim on the criminal.

Considered in that light, it's our system that is unfair and weird.
 
2013-04-03 09:28:05 PM

Mole Man: Bravo Two: Meh. Zero farks given. There are occasions where the victim should get a good shot in at the attacker. Rapist? Punishment is rape by horse using sand impregnated lube. fark civility.

The rape imagery is disturbing on so many levels.


I know right?  You'd have to find an uncommonly sinful horse.
 
2013-04-03 09:28:22 PM

enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.


They could definitely teach some of these idiots on the east side of Michigan how to make a good shawarma.
 
2013-04-03 09:28:35 PM

Lionel Mandrake: enik: Eye for an eye punishment is literally the only thing that Arabs can teach Americans.

Why do you think it's a good idea?


Because with a high rate of recidivism and escalation of crimes, it's time to try something new?
 
2013-04-03 09:28:49 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.


That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.
 
2013-04-03 09:29:57 PM

Bravo Two: Because with a high rate of recidivism and escalation of crimes, it's time to try something new?


"Locks only keep honest people out".

People will do what they think they can get away with.

If they think they can get away with murder/rape/etc. they will do so.

So remove them from the equation, problem solved.
 
2013-04-03 09:30:37 PM

SubBass49: Meh...he's had plenty of time to come up with the money for restitution.  He did what he did, and now it's time to pay the piper.  While it's harsh, so is the life his victim will be forced to live out.  Only difference is that his victim got to spend an extra 10 years suffering, whereas douchie-boy got to walk around on two feet.


While he was in prison, or when he got older than 14?
 
2013-04-03 09:30:53 PM

Gyrfalcon: Actually, shari'a law allows for certain crimes to be paid for if the victim and his/her family agree to it. Murder is actually one of those crimes. The rationale is that it is actually better for the victim to be monetarily recompensed for their injuries and requited, than to make the society suffer more by an unending cycle of vengeance and retribution. Whether that idealized theory worked, of course, is another matter; but the idea was that the payment for a son's murder or a daughter's rape would end the matter and prevent the family from seeking further vengeance, because they had been "made whole" as we say in contract law.

So in this case, the idea that paying the paralyzed victim money instead of sticking his attacker in jail for some period of time is preferable in the eyes of shari'a law to our system which would put the criminal in jail and force the victim to seek money on his own (like in civil court). Only if the criminal can't or won't pay up is the victim allowed lex talionis, because the criminal hasn't paid his debt TO THE VICTIM. Society, in this equation, has no claim on the criminal.

Considered in that light, it's our system that is unfair and weird.


Perfectly stated. +1
 
2013-04-03 09:30:54 PM
I like the whole concept of forcing criminals to work and do disgusting, unsanitary jobs no one else would want. And instead of capital punishment, a joint deal with Siberia and Greenland to send those on death row to factories over there, in fortified camps far from any civilization, with what minimal food and insulation from the cold they need to survive. And make them chop their own firewood, with guards to keep the peace--kept watching the prisoners from balconies or ramparts above. Move some labor back to America, and have them earn their keep.
 
pla
2013-04-03 09:32:14 PM
Inefficient - Paralyzing someone would simply make them a burden on society.

And he can pay a fine (that he can't actually pay) instead?  Seriously, WTF?

Farking animals... And our second best buds in the Middle East... And the source of 3/4ths of the 9/11 hijackers.  Can the comet please come now and let the planet reboot without us?
 
2013-04-03 09:33:17 PM

Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.


I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.
 
2013-04-03 09:33:24 PM

Gyrfalcon: Lionel Mandrake: Capo Del Bandito: fusillade762: Capo Del Bandito: Recidivism cut. Problem cut. Someone vile is removed from the picture.

The problem is...?

You're OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment?

You act as if human life *doesn't* have a coin value.

Humans are not born with some innate value that is 'priceless'.

People have worth. If someone is going to pay that ransom, make sure it's a good ransom.

So you are OK with rich people being able to buy their way out of punishment.

You should have just said "yes."

Actually, shari'a law allows for certain crimes to be paid for if the victim and his/her family agree to it. Murder is actually one of those crimes. The rationale is that it is actually better for the victim to be monetarily recompensed for their injuries and requited, than to make the society suffer more by an unending cycle of vengeance and retribution. Whether that idealized theory worked, of course, is another matter; but the idea was that the payment for a son's murder or a daughter's rape would end the matter and prevent the family from seeking further vengeance, because they had been "made whole" as we say in contract law.

So in this case, the idea that paying the paralyzed victim money instead of sticking his attacker in jail for some period of time is preferable in the eyes of shari'a law to our system which would put the criminal in jail and force the victim to seek money on his own (like in civil court). Only if the criminal can't or won't pay up is the victim allowed lex talionis, because the criminal hasn't paid his debt TO THE VICTIM. Society, in this equation, has no claim on the criminal.

Considered in that light, it's our system that is unfair and weird.


That's just a longer way of saying "yes."

I guess it's a great system if you're rich.
 
2013-04-03 09:34:43 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.

I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.


I did.  I still don't think it's OK for rich criminals to go unpunished when a poor criminal gets paralyzed.

I'm weird like that.
 
2013-04-03 09:37:47 PM

pla: Inefficient - Paralyzing someone would simply make them a burden on society.


What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?


And he can pay a fine (that he can't actually pay) instead?  Seriously, WTF?

It's amazing how many people who can't pay come up with money when their cars are disabled remotely.

Farking animals... And our second best buds in the Middle East... And the source of 3/4ths of the 9/11 hijackers.  Can the comet please come now and let the planet reboot without us?

Just buy a gun and off yourself without bothering the rest of us.  Do it where no one will have to clean up the mess..
 
2013-04-03 09:38:58 PM
There's a small part of me that's okay with this.
 
2013-04-03 09:41:36 PM
This is why Tennessee needs to outlaw Shari'a law. It's farking brutal.
 
2013-04-03 09:43:53 PM
I remembered hearing about this a couple of years ago when they were trying to decide how to punish the perpetrator. Apparently the guy stabbed the victim repeatedly leaving him paralyzed. The victim also later lost a foot.

The family and the victim are the ones who push for the punishment under sharia law.

Sick thing to be sure but the banner ad proclaiming AOLnews has a new home...The Huffington Post made me lol.

Link
 
2013-04-03 09:45:54 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: This is why Tennessee needs to outlaw Shari'a law. It's farking brutal.


"Sharia Law" as used by paranoid right-wing idiots does not mean what you think it means. Practices like this are already outlawed by the United States constitution.

c85c7a.medialib.glogster.com

"Sharia Law" is a time-waster designed to appease moronic theocrats who think they're one moment away from being the next vassel of the Kingdom of Saud.

This practice is horrific, and the fact that we spend so much on the Saudis makes my stomach churn when I hear things like this.
 
2013-04-03 09:46:27 PM
A part of me sees this as real justice, something fitting the crime not just a slap on the wrist.  But I wonder how they are going to do it without killing the guy?  And what doctor would perform the operation?  Do not harm doesn't count in Saudi Arabian?
 
2013-04-03 09:47:04 PM

Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.

I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.

I did.  I still don't think it's OK for rich criminals to go unpunished when a poor criminal gets paralyzed.

I'm weird like that.


A suitable blood price is punishment and benefits the victim.  Our system denies suitable compensation to victims unless they are rich enough to sue, lucky enough to win, and persistent enough to collect.
 
2013-04-03 09:47:40 PM
What, was the spiffy tag busy or something?
 
2013-04-03 09:52:49 PM

Gyrfalcon: But how does this benefit the victim?

If they really want to "make the punishment fit the crime" and all that, and the criminal isn't paying up, he should have to serve his time as the bound servant of his victim. Waiting on him hand & foot, obeying his every whim, wiping his ass when he shiats, etc. Make him actually pay for the result of his crime, and benefit the victim. While I'm sure the victim will have some mental satisfaction from knowing the attacker is also paralyzed, I don't see how it helps anyone out in the long run.


The judge should order him to be his butler.
 
2013-04-03 09:53:37 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: Well, at least Saudi Arabia and other "barbaric" countries respect victims' rights.

That's cute...you think they're doing it for the victim.

I'm basing  my opinion on more than one case and a broader perspective of justice.  Read Gyrfalcon's post comparing  shari'a law to our system.

I did.  I still don't think it's OK for rich criminals to go unpunished when a poor criminal gets paralyzed.

I'm weird like that.

A suitable blood price is punishment and benefits the victim.  Our system denies suitable compensation to victims unless they are rich enough to sue, lucky enough to win, and persistent enough to collect.


Yeah...still not OK with rich guy being free and poor guy being paralyzed.

I really don't think you're going to be able to polish that turd enough to make it look good.
 
2013-04-03 09:57:18 PM
i was okay with it until i saw that the guy was only 14 years old when the original crime happened.  the article isn't clear if the stabbing was an accident or a prank gone wrong.  even if it was intentional, he was 14 and he's spent the last decade in prison.  i don't see how paralyzing him at this point would benefit the victim or society.  but this is the middle east we're talking about.  i don't think they care what a bunch of anonymous people on a news website in america have to say about their criminal justice system.
 
2013-04-03 10:00:50 PM

enderthexenocide: i was okay with it until i saw that the guy was only 14 years old


enderthexenocide: i don't see how paralyzing him at this point would benefit the victim or society


What?  How would it be different if the guy was 25 when the crime occurred?  It still wouldn't benefit the victim or society.
 
pla
2013-04-03 10:03:30 PM
BarkingUnicorn : What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?

So they want to sentence him to torture and then slow starvation? Yeah, brilliant plan there. That'll teach his 14 year old self not to stab friends in the back!  And if nothing else, it will at least send a message to other 14 year olds, what with their near-legendary ability to consider the consequences of their actions...


It's amazing how many people who can't pay come up with money when their cars are disabled remotely.

I couldn't come up with $150k, and I've done pretty well for myself rather than rotting in a Saudi prison for the past decade. Now, if they gave 20 years to come up with the money - While actually working - You might have a point.


Just buy a gun and off yourself without bothering the rest of us. Do it where no one will have to clean up the mess.

Alas
, if only it worked that easy. Sure, I count as part of the problem, but only one six-billionth of it... As do you... As do we all! Nope, sorry, it'll take a comet. Even a massive nuclear war or an incredibly virulent plague wouldn't suffice, enough of us would survive it to re-infect the planet.
 
2013-04-03 10:11:01 PM
If Saudi didn't have oil, we wouldn't give their 15th century country the time of day.
 
2013-04-03 10:12:00 PM

BarkingUnicorn: A suitable blood price is punishment and benefits the victim. Our system denies suitable compensation to victims unless they are rich enough to sue, lucky enough to win, and persistent enough to collect.


To function as an actual deterrent, the financial recompense should be proportional to both the crime, and the means of the perpetrator.

so, the rich don't get to walk away, without becoming poor themselves in the process.    In our world that is accomplished by ambulance chasing lawyers, who seek to represent people vicitmized by those with deep pockets.  Unfortunately that money is not then handed to victim, but goes to the lawyers.


There might be something a little better.
 
2013-04-03 10:13:18 PM

pla: BarkingUnicorn : What makes you think Saudi society is going to assume the burden of this guy?

So they want to sentence him to torture and then slow starvation? Yeah, brilliant plan there. That'll teach his 14 year old self not to stab friends in the back!  And if nothing else, it will at least send a message to other 14 year olds, what with their near-legendary ability to consider the consequences of their actions...


Don't you know that harsh punishment acts as a deterrent?

America has the world's most prisoners, making us virtually crime free!  Not like those hellholes in Europe, like Norway.
 
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