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(Talking Points Memo)   Prosecutor heading up the case against an Aryan hate group in Texas resigns over security reasons, sends letter to every member of the defense so their clients don't kill him like they killed the two other prosecutors   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 198
    More: Followup, Aryan Brotherhood, Texas, security reasons, hate groups, prosecutors, local church, real evidence, prison gang  
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11684 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Apr 2013 at 10:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-03 12:04:51 PM

LowbrowDeluxe: Phinn: FLMountainMan: the SPLC focuses on the South

I'm going to start an organization called the "Yankee Asshole Law Center."

It's going to focus on gathering data (to give to the government) to track asshole behavior in places like New York and other Rust Belt sewers.

Anyone who promotes violating people's basic human rights to economic liberty, self-defense or freedom of association will end up on the YALC's Watch List as a member of a Hate Group.

Oh, look.  It's THIS guy.  Everyone point and laugh.

/Now tell us your opinion on the UN.  I'm sure we'll all be shocked.


----------------------------

You have been added to the YALC's Watch List as a probable domestic terrorist.

The YALC denounces your Hate Posts and the Hate Comments they contain.  You should resign your Hate Membership in Fark.

You should stop engaging in Hate Speech now, before you commit any more Hate Crimes.
 
2013-04-03 12:06:48 PM

Phinn: FLMountainMan: the SPLC focuses on the South

I'm going to start an organization called the "Yankee Asshole Law Center."

It's going to focus on gathering data (to give to the government) to track asshole behavior in places like New York and other Rust Belt sewers.

Anyone who promotes violating people's basic human rights to economic liberty, self-defense or freedom of association will end up on the YALC's Watch List as a member of a Hate Group.


hmmm the thought of someone from florida calling my reigion a sewer is kind of amusing.
back to your bibles guns and crushing poverty jethro
 
2013-04-03 12:10:04 PM

pciszek: WhoGAS: This was when it was still okay to be vocally racist, too, 80s and early 90s.

I hear that overt racism is more socially acceptable in the south now than it was in the 80's.


where did you hear that?  I would say it is much to the contrary.  Some of the most racist things i have ever heard came from middle pennsylvania.
 
2013-04-03 12:14:51 PM
the AB and Bandidos share members. My uncle was in prison in Tx and joined the AB. Upon his release he joined the Bandidos. Was a member in good standing with both. Until he died of a overdose..
 
2013-04-03 12:22:17 PM

pciszek: WhoGAS: This was when it was still okay to be vocally racist, too, 80s and early 90s.

I hear that overt racism is more socially acceptable in the south now than it was in the 80's.


Not sure about that.  I haven't been back to Texas in about four years.  I do visit Oklahoma when a relative dies (5 in this last 12 month time-span including dad and sister) so I tend to interact with them often; well, the ones who are left - heh.

The Oklahomans, whatever race/creed/color, are much friendlier and welcoming than anyone around me in San Diego/Poway have ever been so I don't think it's bad.

Here (CA), I feel the racism deeply...as a white person, I had never encountered it before but here, just wow...being told that you aren't right for the job because they need a Mexican or Asian...Nah, they're not that bad, but if you're not the same race as the person you run into, well you have no chance at becoming friends.
 
2013-04-03 12:25:27 PM
IF I were king (part 74):
String up these hate-filled bastards like the Nazi douchebags at Nuremberg.  fark. Them.
 
2013-04-03 12:29:04 PM

KhamanV: KhamanV: Mugato: There are still Aryan hate groups outside of prison? That actually do things? I thought nowadays they all just sit around writing on Stormfront and drink Pabst Blue Ribbon. I guess I'm sheltered.

SPLC has an interactive map ---

I forgot to add that Texas has 62 groups.  In their state, the vast majority of these groups are white supremacist, including 26 chapters of the Ku Klux Klan.

holy shiatsnacks, a link!


Surely not in my city, with its modern infrastructure, cosmopolitan denizens, and gay mayor....

....well, only 3 within the city limits. And it looks like there's a KKK office on the same street as a Black Panther Party office. Wonder if they have a corporate softball league.

/not looking up which street that is on my work computer
 
2013-04-03 12:29:17 PM

KhamanV: Mugato: There are still Aryan hate groups outside of prison? That actually do things? I thought nowadays they all just sit around writing on Stormfront and drink Pabst Blue Ribbon. I guess I'm sheltered.

SPLC has an interactive map where you can find all the extremist groups operating in the US (white supremacist, actual radical islamists, militant anti-gay, etc).  It's about as heartwarming as the one where you can see where the fallout would spread if your area got hit by a nuke.

/35 hate groups in my state
/16 of them are white supremacist, including KKK
/fun fun fun


If you are to the right of Barbra StreiZand (that's how she likes it pronounced)  the SPLC has you marked as a hater, hater.
 
2013-04-03 12:29:47 PM
So, was he french?
 
2013-04-03 12:30:25 PM

WhoGAS: right for the job because they need a Mexican or Asian


I see you applied to Waste Management, eh?  My buddy, a very qualified truck driver, was told to his face that they would hire only a person of Mexican ancestry.
 
2013-04-03 12:33:17 PM

onzmadi: Phinn: FLMountainMan: the SPLC focuses on the South

I'm going to start an organization called the "Yankee Asshole Law Center."

It's going to focus on gathering data (to give to the government) to track asshole behavior in places like New York and other Rust Belt sewers.

Anyone who promotes violating people's basic human rights to economic liberty, self-defense or freedom of association will end up on the YALC's Watch List as a member of a Hate Group.

hmmm the thought of someone from florida calling my reigion a sewer is kind of amusing.
back to your bibles guns and crushing poverty jethro


I'm not from Florida, yo, so you can DIAF aftuh youze eat yuh cheesteak and finish watchin' da Patriots game.
 
2013-04-03 12:37:25 PM
How do you Aryan hate groups in Texas set themselves apart from regular Texans?
 
2013-04-03 12:39:03 PM

Coolfusis: One of my papers for my last government class dealt with recidivism rates in states with increased state-sponsored rehabilitation compared to states without it. The effects were about what you'd expect. States that had (well-funded) rehab programs experienced a lot less trouble - not surprising when you consider that people are less likely to be assholes when you treat them like human beings.


Send your paper to the dept. of education.
 
2013-04-03 12:39:36 PM

liam76: cman: mysticcat: I think they're more of a criminal gang than a hate group.

Most def

They started as a hate group but have been moving slowly away.

They started as a prison gang.

the money is in the banana stand: Go to any smaller SE Texas city like Jasper, the Aryan brotherhood is still alive and active. My friend's car broke down in Jasper (white guy with dreads) and he was abducted by 2 guys and held in their bathroom. He managed to untie himself and sneak out the window and find his way to the highway. He was pretty sure bad stuff was going to happen to him because he had "n*gger hair". They have actual signs up pointing you to where their lovely gatherings are held along the road. These people are NOT friendly


There are a fair amount of black people in Jasper.  I doubt they are grabbing people because of their hair.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd,_Jr.

Yeah there's a fair amount of black people.  THERE ARE ALSO REALLY F--KING VIOLENT RACISTS.

Jesus Christ.  I hate the stuff I remember sometimes.
 
2013-04-03 12:42:35 PM

abfalter: They need to come down hard on this hate group.  Making someone back down publically like this will only embolden them.  And that will make them kill again.


That should work about the same as the war on drugs.
 
2013-04-03 12:42:47 PM

Witty_Retort: [www.gangsinla.com image 350x300]
Hey guys! These for-profit prisons are working out great!


He would be hard to pick out in a line up.

How the hell would you do a line up? Find 5 other guys with tats all over their faces and then try to read the tats?

Jeeze
 
2013-04-03 12:47:03 PM

James!: Nabb1:

Man, those white supremacists are pretty intense.  Has anyone tried to take them bowling?

I tried that with the KKK, but they took my baby away.  They took her away. Away from me.


Were you using her for a ball?
 
2013-04-03 12:50:20 PM
Ladies and gents, the republican base.
 
2013-04-03 12:51:08 PM
The news is saying white suopremacisists,  but the modus operandi is much more consistent with mexican drug gangs.

For some reason no one wants to tell the truth.

Suspicious?


\\ not the first time somnething like this has happened.
 
2013-04-03 12:52:56 PM
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map#s=TX

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
ArkLaTex Region

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Beaumont

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Buffalo

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Corpus Christi

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Dallas

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Forney

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Fort Worth

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Gatesville

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Houston

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Lufkin

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Marshall

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Midlothian

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Panhandle Region

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
San Saba

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Vidor

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Wichita Falls

United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
Ku Klux Klan
Longview

www.wired.com
 
2013-04-03 12:55:11 PM

pciszek: Serious question here:  Did the Mafia ever do anything as gutsy as assassinate prosecuting attorneys?


The Mexican cartels usually whack people at random, so if I get busted in Houston for example, my gang might whack a judge in San Antonio, a Prosecutor in Dallas or a prominent police officer in El Paso.

Next they would kill a bunch of civilians at random.

Their strategy is so spread the danger as wide as possible, put everyone at risk.
 
2013-04-03 12:57:07 PM

pciszek: WhoGAS: This was when it was still okay to be vocally racist, too, 80s and early 90s.

I hear that overt racism is more socially acceptable in the south now than it was in the 80's.


Oh, well if you heard it, I'm sure it's true.


onzmadi: Phinn: FLMountainMan: the SPLC focuses on the South

I'm going to start an organization called the "Yankee Asshole Law Center."

It's going to focus on gathering data (to give to the government) to track asshole behavior in places like New York and other Rust Belt sewers.

Anyone who promotes violating people's basic human rights to economic liberty, self-defense or freedom of association will end up on the YALC's Watch List as a member of a Hate Group.

hmmm the thought of someone from florida calling my reigion a sewer is kind of amusing.
back to your bibles guns and crushing poverty jethro


DERP.  Yes, the flourishing prosperty of Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt.  I just wish I could live there.

StreetlightInTheGhetto:
There are a fair amount of black people in Jasper.  I doubt they are grabbing people because of their hair.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd,_Jr.

Yeah there's a fair amount of black people.  THERE ARE ALSO REALLY F--KING VIOLENT RACISTS.

Jesus Christ.  I hate the stuff I remember sometimes.


Jasper's 50% black.  And yes, there was a disgusting racially motivated murder there.   And yet it seems like every year, a black kid holding a soda bottle gets gunned down by a NYC cop.  Or sodomized with a plunger.  But New York, the second most segregated city in the country, is held out as some sort of racial utopia, while Jasper, TX is Stormfront Central.

I've never been to either city, but it's baffling to me how self-deluded the Northeast and Midwest are as to their own racial problems.
 
2013-04-03 12:58:21 PM

PackofJokers: KhamanV: KhamanV: Mugato: There are still Aryan hate groups outside of prison? That actually do things? I thought nowadays they all just sit around writing on Stormfront and drink Pabst Blue Ribbon. I guess I'm sheltered.

SPLC has an interactive map ---

I forgot to add that Texas has 62 groups.  In their state, the vast majority of these groups are white supremacist, including 26 chapters of the Ku Klux Klan.

holy shiatsnacks, a link!

Surely not in my city, with its modern infrastructure, cosmopolitan denizens, and gay mayor....

....well, only 3 within the city limits. And it looks like there's a KKK office on the same street as a Black Panther Party office. Wonder if they have a corporate softball league.

/not looking up which street that is on my work computer


Take the numbers with a grain of salt.  SPLC has been under some heat about inflating the numbers in order to fundraise off of them (i.e. the problem is getting worse, donate today!).  They have even started labeling so-called "pick up artists" as hate groups.  The number of groups seems to increase every year, so one wonders how they decide what constitutes a separate group vs. a gang that splinters into smaller groups.  Or a large group that has two addresses (e.g. in VA, the Nation of Islam is supposedly active in Richmond and Norfolk, but counted as two groups for Virginia).  Not sure if that is the best way to do it, but that is how they count.
 
2013-04-03 12:59:09 PM

pciszek: mysticcat: I think they're more of a criminal gang than a hate group.

Either/Or fallacy.


that's like saying dahmer is more a murderer than he is a cannibal.

Does it even matter if a group is say 75% criminal and 25% hate?  or if they commit 'non-hate' crimes Mon to Fri anfd only hang gays, blacks and jews on Sat and Sun?
 
2013-04-03 01:00:08 PM

FLMountainMan: Jasper's 50% black. And yes, there was a disgusting racially motivated murder there. And yet it seems like every year, a black kid holding a soda bottle gets gunned down by a NYC cop. Or sodomized with a plunger. But New York, the second most segregated city in the country, is held out as some sort of racial utopia, while Jasper, TX is Stormfront Central.


From the 2011 Census:

Jasper's population: 7,714
New York City's population: 8,244,910

See, a bad incident among over 8 million people is, sadly, almost an inevitability. Same said incident among fewer than 8,000, however, has a tad more impact on that community.
 
2013-04-03 01:00:23 PM

olddinosaur: The news is saying white suopremacisists,  but the modus operandi is much more consistent with mexican drug gangs.

For some reason no one wants to tell the truth.

Suspicious?


\\ not the first time somnething like this has happened.


Well, the "truth" is that there is no evidence yet that points to Mexican drug gangs, aside from the modus operandi of which you speak.  I'd certainly agree that this is not normal behavior for white (or black) gangs, there's nothing that points to Mexican drug gangs.  So I'm not sure why you think there is some sort of coverrup.
 
2013-04-03 01:04:02 PM

EyeballKid: Nation of Islam is supposedly active in Richmond and Norfolk, but counted as two groups for Virginia).  Not sure if that is the best way to do it, but that is how they count.


Nation of Islam is a hate group now?  They actually some good in the community.  I agree they've got a ton of skeletons in their closet, but no more than either political party.
 
2013-04-03 01:10:06 PM

PackofJokers: it looks like there's a KKK office on the same street as a Black Panther Party office. Wonder if they have a corporate softball league.


So they can put aside their differences to finally win a game against GLAAD?
 
2013-04-03 01:14:39 PM

FLMountainMan: pciszek: WhoGAS: This was when it was still okay to be vocally racist, too, 80s and early 90s.

I hear that overt racism is more socially acceptable in the south now than it was in the 80's.

Oh, well if you heard it, I'm sure it's true.


onzmadi: Phinn: FLMountainMan: the SPLC focuses on the South

I'm going to start an organization called the "Yankee Asshole Law Center."

It's going to focus on gathering data (to give to the government) to track asshole behavior in places like New York and other Rust Belt sewers.

Anyone who promotes violating people's basic human rights to economic liberty, self-defense or freedom of association will end up on the YALC's Watch List as a member of a Hate Group.

hmmm the thought of someone from florida calling my reigion a sewer is kind of amusing.
back to your bibles guns and crushing poverty jethro

DERP.  Yes, the flourishing prosperty of Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt.  I just wish I could live there.

StreetlightInTheGhetto:
There are a fair amount of black people in Jasper.  I doubt they are grabbing people because of their hair.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd,_Jr.

Yeah there's a fair amount of black people.  THERE ARE ALSO REALLY F--KING VIOLENT RACISTS.

Jesus Christ.  I hate the stuff I remember sometimes.

Jasper's 50% black.  And yes, there was a disgusting racially motivated murder there.   And yet it seems like every year, a black kid holding a soda bottle gets gunned down by a NYC cop.  Or sodomized with a plunger.  But New York, the second most segregated city in the country, is held out as some sort of racial utopia, while Jasper, TX is Stormfront Central.

I've never been to either city, but it's baffling to me how self-deluded the Northeast and Midwest are as to their own racial problems.


Was a comparison the point? No. It was is Jasper prone to racially motivated violence. Recent History says yes.
 
2013-04-03 01:15:20 PM
Blacks have gangs

Asians have gangs

Arabs have gangs

Whites have hate groups...

Funny how the law works, and punishes one more then the others.
 
2013-04-03 01:15:41 PM

Jacobin: How the hell would you do a line up? Find 5 other guys with tats all over their faces and then try to read the tats?


Line-ups are terrible anyway, since the natural response is to pick the best match out of the six people who are there and instantly convince yourself that he's the guilty one. It's much better to say "that's the guy" or "that isn't the guy" to a series of individually-presented photographs of unknown number.

/just thought I'd mention that while we're on the subject of terrible crime-reduction methods
 
2013-04-03 01:17:34 PM

Witty_Retort: [www.gangsinla.com image 350x300]
Hey guys! These for-profit prisons are working out great!


For him (and the greater good) I suspect prison is probably the place he will be most productive.
 
2013-04-03 01:18:17 PM

atomicmask: Blacks have gangs

Asians have gangs

Arabs have gangs

Whites have hate groups...

Funny how the law works, and punishes one more then the others.


I know.  Look at how many more whites are incarcerated.  It's just disgusting.
 
2013-04-03 01:18:22 PM
I found this in an article linked to in the linked-to article:

The defense attorney, Richard O. Ely II, told the Morning News that he received an email Tuesday morning from the prosecutor, Jay Hileman, in which Hileman informed Ely that he was off the case.

Ely, a former prosecutor who described himself as a good friend of Hileman's, told the Morning News that Hileman is likely concerned about his family after the recent killings of two prosecutors in Kaufman County, Texas.

"He's obviously made a decision based on something," Ely said.


So the lawyers for the defense concede that it's credible for people linked to their clients to make even Federal prosecutors afraid for their families? If I were on trial in acase like this I'd make sure my lawyer described me as a gentle little lamb who only wants to nurture people, or I'd put a hit out on his family.

Maybe these criminals need criminal lawyers. On Breaking Bad Walter's lawyer is a 100% stand-up guy: he didn't even turn on him when the Big Bad Guys got involved. Surely there have to be honorable defense attorneys in real life.

CSB: The last time I needed a lawyer, back in 1984, he worked out a deal he thought was fair instead of trying to get me off. But a year of very loosely supervised Probation Before Judgment was probably the best I could have gotten under the circumstances, and anyway the lawyer was very old and had gotten used to making deals, being mobbed up and a non-covert member of the Communist Party. (The latter part was well known: he hung out at the Party book store, was very involved in its public activities and got Soviet Life delivered to his home unwrapped on purpose.) Given the circles I ran in then it would've been easier to hide from the cops than from him and his friends: I didn't want to piss off the KGB over a dinky little misdemeanor.
 
2013-04-03 01:19:21 PM

FLMountainMan: atomicmask: Blacks have gangs

Asians have gangs

Arabs have gangs

Whites have hate groups...

Funny how the law works, and punishes one more then the others.

I know.  Look at how many more whites are incarcerated.  It's just disgusting.


Ahh so the quantity of criminals locked up that are other races besides white means that obviously whites are treated better?

Maybe there are just more minority criminals then white criminals.
 
2013-04-03 01:20:07 PM

syberpud: Take the numbers with a grain of salt. SPLC has been under some heat about inflating the numbers in order to fundraise off of them (i.e. the problem is getting worse, donate today!). They have even started labeling so-called "pick up artists" as hate groups. The number of groups seems to increase every year, so one wonders how they decide what constitutes a separate group vs. a gang that splinters into smaller groups. Or a large group that has two addresses (e.g. in VA, the Nation of Islam is supposedly active in Richmond and Norfolk, but counted as two groups for Virginia). Not sure if that is the best way to do it, but that is how they count.


One could argue that if the groups are increasing every day then the SPLC isn't exactly doing a good job
 
2013-04-03 01:22:12 PM

Phinn: vpb: If he just got a gun he would be perfectly safe and untouchable.

Maybe the government can declare a mobile 10-foot radius around every prosecutor as a "gun free zone."

Passing laws solves everything.  Words are just like reality.


You do realize that guns have a range a bit longer than 10 feet, right?
 
2013-04-03 01:28:18 PM

vudukungfu: I see the big, bad DHS can use extreme rendition on a Canadian teenager, and bag him off to GITMO, but they don't have the testes to go after a real domestic terrorist.
Nice of them to spend your tax dollars on brass and glass, and not kick ass.


Wrong group, its DOJ not DHS.

They are actually two floors down from me, so I am really NOT getting a kick out of this entire thing. I don't blame the prosecutor at all for withdrawing if there are security concerns. The DOJ will bring in an experienced attorney from waaay out of state to handle the case.

And this has always been the risk when going after large groups - mafia, hate group, gangs... these groups use violence and intimidation as their core tools, and have no problem using them against officials. At least the people at the DOJ have extensive backup and protection at their beck and call - most local prosecutors do not have that option.
 
2013-04-03 01:29:24 PM
We're supposed to have 10 "hate groups" in Kentucky but the map only shows five, and all it shows for Lexington is the United Klans.

Clearly SPLC should broaden their definition of "hate group": I'd include, among others, the Southern Baptist Convention.
 
2013-04-03 01:31:23 PM

pseudoscience: Phinn: vpb: If he just got a gun he would be perfectly safe and untouchable.

Maybe the government can declare a mobile 10-foot radius around every prosecutor as a "gun free zone."

Passing laws solves everything.  Words are just like reality.

You do realize that guns have a range a bit longer than 10 feet, right?


Then they had better enlarge the Gun Free Zone!

Since changing complex social realities is only a matter of writing new laws, it's a simple matter to add an extra zero or two to the radius of magic protection.
 
2013-04-03 01:34:07 PM

olddinosaur: pciszek: Serious question here:  Did the Mafia ever do anything as gutsy as assassinate prosecuting attorneys?

The Mexican cartels usually whack people at random, so if I get busted in Houston for example, my gang might whack a judge in San Antonio, a Prosecutor in Dallas or a prominent police officer in El Paso.


Actually, I meant the Sicilian Mafia, the classic pinstriped suit guys.
 
2013-04-03 01:38:32 PM

vpb: If he just got a gun he would be perfectly safe and untouchable.


Right, like that deputy district attorney in Hot Sulphur Springs, CO. Her and her cop husband shot and killed an intruder Monday night. Nice attempt at a troll though.
 
2013-04-03 01:38:46 PM

Pollexter: Soooo you've just taught every drug dealing gang in the US that the easiest way to have a large Federal case dropped is to assassinate a few prosecutors. That's going to turn out awesome.


Great point...
 
2013-04-03 01:38:57 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: liam76: cman: mysticcat: I think they're more of a criminal gang than a hate group.

Most def

They started as a hate group but have been moving slowly away.

They started as a prison gang.

the money is in the banana stand: Go to any smaller SE Texas city like Jasper, the Aryan brotherhood is still alive and active. My friend's car broke down in Jasper (white guy with dreads) and he was abducted by 2 guys and held in their bathroom. He managed to untie himself and sneak out the window and find his way to the highway. He was pretty sure bad stuff was going to happen to him because he had "n*gger hair". They have actual signs up pointing you to where their lovely gatherings are held along the road. These people are NOT friendly

There are a fair amount of black people in Jasper.  I doubt they are grabbing people because of their hair.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd,_Jr.

Yeah there's a fair amount of black people.  THERE ARE ALSO REALLY F--KING VIOLENT RACISTS.

Jesus Christ.  I hate the stuff I remember sometimes.



I remebered Jasper because of that crime too.  The conversation was implying that Jasper is dangerous to be black.  Jasper isn't some haven for the Aryan nation where black people can't go (as was the implication I got from the guys little story).
 
2013-04-03 01:42:53 PM

moonscatter: vudukungfu: I see the big, bad DHS can use extreme rendition on a Canadian teenager, and bag him off to GITMO, but they don't have the testes to go after a real domestic terrorist.
Nice of them to spend your tax dollars on brass and glass, and not kick ass.

Wrong group, its DOJ not DHS.


The victims may be DOJ, but I think vudukungfu meant that the DHS should be treating this as domestic terrorism and doing something about it.  I have noticed that when a right-wing white guy does the sort of thing that we would normally associate with terrorists--such as plant a bomb along a parade route--it is always treated as an ordinary crime rather than a terrorist act.
 
2013-04-03 01:43:52 PM

FLMountainMan: EyeballKid: Nation of Islam is supposedly active in Richmond and Norfolk, but counted as two groups for Virginia).  Not sure if that is the best way to do it, but that is how they count.

Nation of Islam is a hate group now?  They actually some good in the community.  I agree they've got a ton of skeletons in their closet, but no more than either political party.


According to the SPLC (which operates under their own definition).  They count "Black Separatists  as a hate category.  One of the few non-white classifications (although some like "Radical Traditional Catholic" might be pan-racial).  I notice they don't include groups like La Raza, which some call a hate (or Latino separatist/supremacist) group.  Goes to show that it all depends on how you classify "hate".

/I also note that the SPLC "Hate Map" shows 0 groups in Hawaii, but their own website has stories of racial motivated crimes in Hawaii.  Must not be organized enough to be called a group?
 
2013-04-03 01:46:32 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Coolfusis: One of my papers for my last government class dealt with recidivism rates in states with increased state-sponsored rehabilitation compared to states without it. The effects were about what you'd expect. States that had (well-funded) rehab programs experienced a lot less trouble - not surprising when you consider that people are less likely to be assholes when you treat them like human beings.

Send your paper to the dept. of education.


If I had to be completely honest, there are a great many papers written on the same subject by people with much more research and credentials under their belt. I wasn't breaking any ground in my undergrad government class.

Still, it speaks volumes about the state of our democracy when literally everything points to the fact that we're doing something horribly wrong, but we aren't going to change it because we would appear "weak on crime"
 
2013-04-03 01:49:40 PM

KhamanV: Mugato: There are still Aryan hate groups outside of prison? That actually do things? I thought nowadays they all just sit around writing on Stormfront and drink Pabst Blue Ribbon. I guess I'm sheltered.

SPLC has an interactive map where you can find all the extremist groups operating in the US (white supremacist, actual radical islamists, militant anti-gay, etc).  It's about as heartwarming as the one where you can see where the fallout would spread if your area got hit by a nuke.

/35 hate groups in my state
/16 of them are white supremacist, including KKK
/fun fun fun


I'd take that map with a *MAJOR* grain of salt.

The SPLC is known to, erm, exaggerate both the numbers and the actual threats.  Here is a really good summary of the SPLC.
 
2013-04-03 01:50:13 PM

the money is in the banana stand: I would also argue that because we do this, this in itself is a huge deterrent to NOT commit those lesser crimes. What would be the deterrent if those lesser crimes were simply dealt with "UN" style with strong words and no real consequences? As a child, when I would talk back to my parents, I would get spanked - therefore I knew the limits and avoided talking back to my parents. My friends for the most part had very lenient parents and walked all over them. Their punishment would be something like time out or "Honey, you shouldn't talk that way!" My friends who had the lenient parents eventually escalated their bad behavior whereas I was always kept in check. Sometimes, using the axe for a hang nail is the right approach.


Today your parents would be in prison with the hard offenders you're talking about...and that's his point, dude. Thanks for making it for him.
 
2013-04-03 01:50:58 PM

the money is in the banana stand: Go to any smaller SE Texas city like Jasper, the Aryan brotherhood is still alive and active.


They're actually a bigger presence in major cities.  Especially in N. Texas--most meth comes from the cartels or the AB.

There's a lot to complain about in Jasper, but not as much as there is in Vidor, and about the same as in any small town across the country, even in the North.

The most open racism I run across is when I'm in the mid-west.  Not that latent racism is good, but Texas is no worse than just about anywhere else.  At least we don't corral all of our black people in the same place and call it Watts or Harlem.

mysticcat: I think they're more of a criminal gang than a hate group.


It's funny how many people didn't get this.
 
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