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(Chronicle Herald)   Let's celebrate remarkable women, with a photo of three white guys   (thechronicleherald.ca) divider line 194
    More: Asinine  
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12466 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Apr 2013 at 10:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-03 07:45:56 AM
Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.
 
2013-04-03 07:47:50 AM
Yeh, subby, the colour of their skin is really important here...
 
2013-04-03 09:04:48 AM
Brought to you by the GOP.

www.thenation.com
 
2013-04-03 09:39:10 AM

Slaxl: Yeh, subby, the colour of their skin is really important here...



Haha, racism, haha, against white middle aged men, haha.
 
2013-04-03 10:39:03 AM
i like the subliminal 'women swallow' message.
 
2013-04-03 10:40:58 AM
They wanted to put some remarkable women on there, but they haven't found any yet.

/I keed.
 
2013-04-03 10:41:49 AM

Those are three ugly women, who really shouldn't wear ties and suits.
Three large, lawn clipping paper bags would be better attire.



encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-03 10:43:00 AM
The extra irony being that Mount St. Vincent was originally a women's college. I would have expected this from St. Mary's, but not from Dalhousie: Dal wouldn't actually bother to advertise.
 
2013-04-03 10:43:02 AM
worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com
 
2013-04-03 10:43:16 AM
I know where they can find some.

s1.ibtimes.com
 
2013-04-03 10:43:45 AM
Why subby, whom do you think is to thank for allowing women to move up the social class order?

/dnrtfa
 
2013-04-03 10:45:04 AM
Three little maids from school are we.
 
2013-04-03 10:45:55 AM

Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.


Limited pool of availability and all of that....
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-03 10:46:51 AM
The War on Women (tm) enabled by whom?

sas-origin.onstreammedia.com

Liberated women and men exercising their rights.

´
Daddy figures win.

media.gallup.com

Victim or enabler?

sas-origin.onstreammedia.com
 
2013-04-03 10:47:28 AM
Who do you think is going to put together the celebration of remarkable women, the women?

/good one
 
2013-04-03 10:50:26 AM

Elegy: Limited pool of availability and all of that....


Haha, maybe less than 10 out of 20,000 students want to be able to eat after they graduate?
 
2013-04-03 10:51:01 AM
Er, more... fark.
 
2013-04-03 10:56:44 AM

hinten: The War on Women (tm) enabled by whom?

[sas-origin.onstreammedia.com image 294x244]

Liberated women and men exercising their rights.

´
Daddy figures win.

[media.gallup.com image 564x324]

Victim or enabler?

[sas-origin.onstreammedia.com image 508x383]


None of your charts make any sense towards any sort of point.
 
2013-04-03 10:56:54 AM
That's outrageous. One of the guys should've been black.
 
2013-04-03 10:57:10 AM

Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....
[i.imgur.com image 300x246]


How many men in the Men's Studies program?
Oh that doesn't exist.
So 8:0 that's an infinite ratio.
 
2013-04-03 10:57:17 AM

Mentalpatient87: Elegy: Limited pool of availability and all of that....

Haha, maybe less than 10 out of 20,000 students want to be able to eat after they graduate?


Most women don't need to study women, and men don't care.
 
2013-04-03 10:58:38 AM
Remarkable women:

Mom

Paternal and Maternal Grandmother (raised 24 kids between them)

Aunt June

Betty Crocker

Sara Lee

Dolly Madison

The lady who does my shirts and gets the creases right with just he right amount of starch.

My sister-in-law when she makes her most excellent meatloaf or lasagna

My accountant-bless her. Too bad she is retiring

Oh and the lady who walks by my favorite restaurant once or twice during the week at lunch hour. Always well dressed, sexy but not slutty . Her appearance always make a so-so day much better. She does her part to keep America beautiful.
 
2013-04-03 10:58:38 AM
Also, based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

/I know, lighten up
//at least try to be original
 
2013-04-03 10:59:26 AM
Well it makes sense, kind of.

Who cares about a bunch of (insert any group) celebrating themselves? Isn't it better to get a pat on the back from someone other than yourself?

Now, what they *should* have done is have a woman *with* those guys. Maybe one could have his hand on her shoulder, both of them beaming with pride. Maybe there's two women hugging! Rubbing the back, that's good. That's right, its ok, its ok. Now lean in and smell her hair..
 
2013-04-03 11:00:04 AM

Begoggle: Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....
[i.imgur.com image 300x246]

How many men in the Men's Studies program?
Oh that doesn't exist.
So 8:0 that's an infinite ratio.


You never got the opportunity to study men in college?
 
2013-04-03 11:00:57 AM

hinten: The War on Women (tm) enabled by whom?



Liberated women and men exercising their rights.

´
Daddy figures win.



Victim or enabler?


....what?
 
2013-04-03 11:07:50 AM
This thread smells rape-y.
 
2013-04-03 11:08:18 AM
I think that Steven Martin said it best when he said that he believed that women should be placed on a pedestal, just high enough so that he could look up their skirt.
 
2013-04-03 11:10:38 AM
They were celebrating the women.  The women being celebrated wouldn't be celebrating themselves, you sexist pigs.
 
2013-04-03 11:10:45 AM

DjangoStonereaver: Brought to you by the GOP.

[www.thenation.com image 574x253]


This too.... (Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act)
georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov
 
2013-04-03 11:12:42 AM
In other news ***ing whie males!1!1!!
 
2013-04-03 11:14:37 AM

Car_Ramrod: hinten: The War on Women (tm) enabled by whom?

[sas-origin.onstreammedia.com image 294x244]

Liberated women and men exercising their rights.

´
Daddy figures win.

[media.gallup.com image 564x324]

Victim or enabler?

[sas-origin.onstreammedia.com image 508x383]

None of your charts make any sense towards any sort of point.


I think you should keep pressing it.
shootingparrots.co.uk
 
2013-04-03 11:15:47 AM
White guys are bad. It's not racist to point out that white guys are inferior and have no value. In fact, the only thing that's racist is a white guy succeeding when someone else does not.
 
2013-04-03 11:16:20 AM
For a donation of $1,200, honourees my wife's name will be included in the Wall of Honour and [her story] will be shared on an associated website.

Seems_legit.jpg
 
2013-04-03 11:19:40 AM

hinten: The War on Women (tm) enabled by whom?

Victim or enabler?


Aww, get over it.
The War is on People.
Some happen to be women.
IRL, 1% vs. all of US.
Us only has a chance if you resist being divided for conquering.
Move along.
 
2013-04-03 11:19:46 AM
Let's celebrate remarkable women by whining about something superficial and meaningless!
 
2013-04-03 11:22:15 AM
♫♪ One of these things
Is just like the others ♫♪
 
2013-04-03 11:24:01 AM
9 times out of 10, when any organization has a "tribute" to someone, the people setting up the tribute are just trying to pat themselves on the back and get attention.

Think Stephen Colbert after he introduces his interview guest.
 
2013-04-03 11:26:35 AM
This article is sexist.  Who are they to say that men can't be successful women?
 
2013-04-03 11:29:03 AM
www.frymybacon.com

straight ballin', biatches!!!!!
 
2013-04-03 11:30:10 AM
Behind every great woman, there's a man... bending her over the couch.
 
2013-04-03 11:34:57 AM

Car_Ramrod: based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.


Should we make a thread about the "dumb white man" trope that persists in every. single. advertising. medium. on earth?

Cause that one never gets old.
Oh look, the stupid incompetent child-man father cut the grass with that old rusted mower, now his eternally patien highly intelligent wife needs to take him to home depot to a sale only she heard about.
 
2013-04-03 11:35:01 AM

Christian Bale: 9 times out of 10, when any organization has a "tribute" to someone, the people setting up the tribute are just trying to pat themselves on the back and get attention.

Think Stephen Colbert after he introduces his interview guest.


The article sounds more like a bunch of people paying to get some advertising for themselves than any "tribute" to them.
 
2013-04-03 11:44:55 AM

sure haven't: Car_Ramrod: based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

Should we make a thread about the "dumb white man" trope that persists in every. single. advertising. medium. on earth?

Cause that one never gets old.
Oh look, the stupid incompetent child-man father cut the grass with that old rusted mower, now his eternally patien highly intelligent wife needs to take him to home depot to a sale only she heard about.


Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against - bullshiat gender roles based on bullshiat concepts perpetrated throughout bullshiat history, all there to help men not get that sort of doofus Chevy Chase stereotype bullshiat either.  Crazy, I know.
 
2013-04-03 11:45:52 AM

Begoggle: Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....
[i.imgur.com image 300x246]

How many men in the Men's Studies program?
Oh that doesn't exist.
So 8:0 that's an infinite ratio.


WHAT ABOUT THE MEN?  Won't someone please think about the men?!
 
2013-04-03 11:49:21 AM
I think the important part is that we remember that the reason we don't have a pot to piss in or are miserable and unappreciated and ill used is the fault of that white / black / yellow / brown / male / female / straight / gay / smart / stupid / middle class / poor person up the road.  I know this is a fact because a rich person told me and rich people know everything.
 
2013-04-03 11:50:56 AM

KhamanV: Begoggle: Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....
[i.imgur.com image 300x246]

How many men in the Men's Studies program?
Oh that doesn't exist.
So 8:0 that's an infinite ratio.

WHAT ABOUT THE MEN?  Won't someone please think about the men?!


God, this is getting so tired. People are getting sick of this shiat.
 
2013-04-03 11:51:43 AM

KhamanV: bullshiat gender roles based on bullshiat concepts perpetrated throughout bullshiat history


That's not history.  Fiction writers responding to marketing data.  History is the sh*t that steamrolls over all that malarkey every so often.
 
2013-04-03 11:56:55 AM
To be fair, they said celebrate.  Not hire, employ, promote or pay equally.
 
2013-04-03 11:59:02 AM
I think it's best for men to be running a celebration of women. They're more likely to be objective. Women honoring women sounds a bit self-indulgent and a conflict of interest. Clearly an outsider view would be the best.

\joking
\\feels bad that I feel I need to be clear that I'm joking
 
2013-04-03 12:01:25 PM

DjangoStonereaver: Brought to you by the GOP.

[www.thenation.com image 574x253]


i1136.photobucket.com

Is that Orson Welles?
 
2013-04-03 12:03:01 PM
How many thousand years of recorded human history?  How many space flights, world changing inventions, wars, and packet saddled electrons whizzing around on beams of light?  And we're still all f*cked up about who has a hoo haw or a wang dang?  Stick a fork in it.  As a culture, we couldn't run a dry cleaners without it turning into a whine festival.
 
2013-04-03 12:03:05 PM

KhamanV: Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against - bullshiat gender roles based on bullshiat concepts perpetrated throughout bullshiat history, all there to help men not get that sort of doofus Chevy Chase stereotype bullshiat either. Crazy, I know.


Um, you can't have a word that only represents one gender, and then say it supports both genders.
 
2013-04-03 12:05:27 PM

sure haven't: Um, you can't have a word that only represents one gender, and then say it supports both genders.


upload.wikimedia.org

That.  That there is every circular, useless "nuh UH!" in one sentence.
 
2013-04-03 12:06:14 PM
Don't worry your little head over it sugar. Now got get me a beer.
 
2013-04-03 12:09:44 PM
A lot of Halifax stories lately. Has 40below moved to Nova Scotia?
 
2013-04-03 12:10:55 PM
I stand in solidarity with my LGBTQRST brethren, however sexless they want to appear.
 
2013-04-03 12:11:06 PM

FARK rebel soldier: [worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com image 323x500]

www.bobmezzo.com

img.xcitefun.net


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-03 12:18:22 PM
This is why you don't honor a particular group.  Celebrate everyone or no one.  People are too easily confused, insulted, offended, or "hurt" otherwise.
 
2013-04-03 12:19:45 PM
hasty ambush:

4.bp.blogspot.com

White males.  They'll kill you in your sleep on Christmas.
 
2013-04-03 12:21:38 PM

sure haven't: KhamanV: Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against - bullshiat gender roles based on bullshiat concepts perpetrated throughout bullshiat history, all there to help men not get that sort of doofus Chevy Chase stereotype bullshiat either. Crazy, I know.

Um, you can't have a word that only represents one gender, and then say it supports both genders.


You can have a concept that embraces more than what the original signifier states.  The fight for gay rights umbrellas trans/bi/pansexual/genderqueer, etc, although (yes, semantically problematically in this case) most people refer to it by the one term.  What'sa matter?  You don't want a bunch of girls and their girly word sticking up for men's rights, too?
 
2013-04-03 12:22:59 PM

sure haven't: KhamanV: Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against - bullshiat gender roles based on bullshiat concepts perpetrated throughout bullshiat history, all there to help men not get that sort of doofus Chevy Chase stereotype bullshiat either. Crazy, I know.

Um, you can't have a word that only represents one gender, and then say it supports both genders.


Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.
 
2013-04-03 12:28:49 PM
Car_Ramrod:
Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.

The first section where it explains why we still use Fem and not 'humanist' or my favorite 'egalitarian' is also useful and relevant to this conversation.  We're not on equal footing yet.  Nobody wants to take anything away from someone else, for fark's sake, either.
 
2013-04-03 12:29:35 PM

KhamanV: Begoggle: Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....
[i.imgur.com image 300x246]

How many men in the Men's Studies program?
Oh that doesn't exist.
So 8:0 that's an infinite ratio.

WHAT ABOUT THE MEN?  Won't someone please think about the men?!


I'm the libbiest lib that ever libbed, but my point wasn't to act like men are oppressed, my point was that this whiny college chick has created a bogus argument.
 
2013-04-03 12:29:46 PM
www.a-suivre.org
 
2013-04-03 12:31:46 PM

KhamanV: Car_Ramrod:
Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.

The first section where it explains why we still use Fem and not 'humanist' or my favorite 'egalitarian' is also useful and relevant to this conversation.  We're not on equal footing yet.  Nobody wants to take anything away from someone else, for fark's sake, either.


Truth. It's a great article overall. I just found that one specific part particularly relevant to the conversation.
 
2013-04-03 12:31:48 PM
Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself
 
2013-04-03 12:33:38 PM
And whatever you do,
NEVER LAUGH AT ANYTHING!

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-03 12:34:45 PM

Begoggle: KhamanV: Begoggle: Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....
[i.imgur.com image 300x246]

How many men in the Men's Studies program?
Oh that doesn't exist.
So 8:0 that's an infinite ratio.

WHAT ABOUT THE MEN?  Won't someone please think about the men?!

I'm the libbiest lib that ever libbed, but my point wasn't to act like men are oppressed, my point was that this whiny college chick has created a bogus argument.


Fair enough from the point of statistics, but the point of overeager social justice would like to mention that many general course loads are men's studies.  :P  Sort of like the 'lol why no white history month?'  Because we got the other 11 months, the bulk of entertainment television, the bulk of video games, movies, etc, etc, etc... it's wearying to see.
 
2013-04-03 12:34:57 PM

WhippingBoy: Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself


I just sprained an eye ball.
 
2013-04-03 12:35:57 PM

KhamanV: Begoggle: KhamanV: Begoggle: Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....
[i.imgur.com image 300x246]

How many men in the Men's Studies program?
Oh that doesn't exist.
So 8:0 that's an infinite ratio.

WHAT ABOUT THE MEN?  Won't someone please think about the men?!

I'm the libbiest lib that ever libbed, but my point wasn't to act like men are oppressed, my point was that this whiny college chick has created a bogus argument.

Fair enough from the point of statistics, but the point of overeager social justice would like to mention that many general course loads are men's studies.  :P  Sort of like the 'lol why no white history month?'  Because we got the other 11 months, the bulk of entertainment television, the bulk of video games, movies, etc, etc, etc... it's wearying to see.


Well start producing your own tv shows and write your own video games. You can do whatever you want. Just quit whining.
 
2013-04-03 12:37:50 PM
heywherethewhitewomenat.jpg?
 
2013-04-03 12:39:56 PM

KhamanV: sure haven't: Car_Ramrod: based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

Should we make a thread about the "dumb white man" trope that persists in every. single. advertising. medium. on earth?

Cause that one never gets old.
Oh look, the stupid incompetent child-man father cut the grass with that old rusted mower, now his eternally patien highly intelligent wife needs to take him to home depot to a sale only she heard about.

Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against.


farm5.staticflickr.com
 
2013-04-03 12:39:57 PM

WhippingBoy: Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself


You got the wrong lesson.  You have nothing to be ashamed of; you got lucky - you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it.  You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships!  It's not a perfect system for everyone).  People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers.  It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about.  It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

All anyone without that privilege - another color, another gender - wants is for you to take a moment when you see something go a different way for someone else when it wouldn't have for you and go "Whoa.  That sorta sucks.  That's unfair.  I just want whoever that is to be treated like me."

Nobody wants to take the privilege of being a white dude away from you.  They just want to make it a little easier being born a different way.
 
2013-04-03 12:43:44 PM
WhippingBoy:
Well start producing your own tv shows and write your own video games. You can do whatever you want. Just quit whining.

Things change when people stop shutting up about it.
 
2013-04-03 12:46:08 PM
OK, Jesus, God, Allah are all actually women and all wealth and power should be controlled by and passed on to daughters in a matriarchal lineage that firmly controls every aspect of our society because only women are capable of dealing with absolute power and to deny this is to be a worthless, vile sexist pig.  Now, can you go run the universe while I replace this hot water heater?  Cause I could really use a shower and I clamped my thumb with this wrench and it hurts like hell.
 
2013-04-03 12:46:44 PM

hasty ambush: FARK rebel soldier: [worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com image 323x500]
[www.bobmezzo.com image 602x742]

[img.xcitefun.net image 567x455]


[4.bp.blogspot.com image 640x430]


Good point.
 
2013-04-03 12:47:22 PM

KhamanV: WhippingBoy: Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself

You got the wrong lesson.  You have nothing to be ashamed of; you got lucky - you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it.  You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships!  It's not a perfect system for everyone).  People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers.  It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about.  It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

All anyone without that privilege - another color, another gender - wants is for you to take a moment when you see something go a different way for someone else when it wouldn't have for you and go "Whoa.  That sorta sucks.  That's unfair.  I just want whoever that is to be treated like me."

Nobody wants to take the privilege of being a white dude away from you.  They just want to make it a little easier being born a different way.



You're right, but you missed some of the following privileges:

A greater likelihood of ending up homeless.
Much higher rate of suicide.
Much greater likelihood that I'll be expected to actually fight in a war.
More opportunities for intense physical jobs that will slowly destroy my body and send me to an early grave.
Presumed guilty until proven innocent in domestic disputes.

In any case, eow exactly do you know what it's like to be me? Check your privilege, sister. Check your privilege.
 
2013-04-03 12:48:03 PM

KhamanV: WhippingBoy:
Well start producing your own tv shows and write your own video games. You can do whatever you want. Just quit whining.

Things change when people stop shutting up about it.


And yet, once they do, they still don't shut up about it.  It's almost as if change isn't the point.
 
2013-04-03 12:49:00 PM

KhamanV: WhippingBoy: Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself

You got the wrong lesson.  You have nothing to be ashamed of; you got lucky - you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it.  You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships!  It's not a perfect system for everyone).  People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers.  It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about.  It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

All anyone without that privilege - another color, another gender - wants is for you to take a moment when you see something go a different way for someone else when it wouldn't have for you and go "Whoa.  That sorta sucks.  That's unfair.  I just want whoever that is to be treated like me."

Nobody wants to take the privilege of being a white dude away from you.  They just want to make it a little easier being born a different way.


So if life for white men is so great, how come they have a suicide rate ten times that of black women?
 
2013-04-03 12:49:13 PM

KhamanV: WhippingBoy:
Well start producing your own tv shows and write your own video games. You can do whatever you want. Just quit whining.

Things change when people stop shutting up about it.


No, things change when people stop talking and start acting.
 
2013-04-03 12:51:30 PM

rustypouch: So if life for white men is so great, how come they have a suicide rate ten times that of black women?


Obviously the guilt they feel for actively promoting the flawed, oppressive patriarchy becomes too much to bear.  No, seriously, somewhere on some campus someplace somebody is saying this with a completely straight face.
 
2013-04-03 12:52:15 PM

KhamanV: Fair enough from the point of statistics, but the point of overeager social justice would like to mention that many general course loads are men's studies.  :P  Sort of like the 'lol why no white history month?'  Because we got the other 11 months, the bulk of entertainment television, the bulk of video games, movies, etc, etc, etc... it's wearying to see.


You know what is even more wearying? The attitude that certain people don't have real problems and have everything handed to them because they are white men, like this:

KhamanV: you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it. You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships! It's not a perfect system for everyone). People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers. It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.


The world is a cruel place to all of us. Maybe you should look at the percentages of poor and homeless people who are white before you trot out that shiat. You expect empathy from us while giving none in return.

So how about this: I will show people like you the same amount of empathy you show to people like me, and nothing less, so go fark yourself.
 
2013-04-03 12:53:06 PM
I need a sammich and this thread is not delivering.
 
2013-04-03 12:53:59 PM

bunner: rustypouch: So if life for white men is so great, how come they have a suicide rate ten times that of black women?

Obviously the guilt they feel for actively promoting the flawed, oppressive patriarchy becomes too much to bear.  No, seriously, somewhere on some campus someplace somebody is saying this with a completely straight face.


No no. A sheltered, white, middle-class 21 year old female gender studies student knows all about how the world works. Who are you to say otherwise?
 
2013-04-03 12:54:51 PM
Women outnumber men. If they are being oppressed in this day and age with numerical superiority... larger numbers being educated... laws tipped in their favour... all the extra advantages...

Well that just makes them a bunch of pussies.


Seriously... There are so many social injustices these days... and so many legitimate things to grieve about. Feminism and this feeling of being a victim of sexism in this day and age makes no sense. (For 99% of population that is).
 
2013-04-03 12:55:46 PM

rustypouch: So if life for white men is so great, how come they have a suicide rate ten times that of black women?


╔═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong black woman ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don't need no man ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╝
 
2013-04-03 01:02:05 PM

umad: KhamanV: Fair enough from the point of statistics, but the point of overeager social justice would like to mention that many general course loads are men's studies.  :P  Sort of like the 'lol why no white history month?'  Because we got the other 11 months, the bulk of entertainment television, the bulk of video games, movies, etc, etc, etc... it's wearying to see.

You know what is even more wearying? The attitude that certain people don't have real problems and have everything handed to them because they are white men, like this:

KhamanV: you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it. You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships! It's not a perfect system for everyone). People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers. It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

The world is a cruel place to all of us. Maybe you should look at the percentages of poor and homeless people who are white before you trot out that shiat. You expect empathy from us while giving none in return.

So how about this: I will show people like you the same amount of empathy you show to people like me, and nothing less, so go fark yourself.


1) Read what was written

2) "The life of every white male isn't perfect, so why should people be trying to remove the built-in societal biases that statistically favor white men over other groups?"

You might not benefit from patriarchy in any measurable way-on an individual level your life might actually be much, much worse than mine-but the fact is that certain  disadvantages are absent from your experience (and, likely, invisible to you) because of your gender.

Maybe you're saying, "Hey, but  my life wasn't fair either. I've had to struggle." I know it wasn't. I know you have. But that's not how fairness works. If you present fairness as the goal-that some day everything will be "fair" for everyone-you're slipping into an unrealistic fantasy land. Life already isn't fair, because of coincidence and circumstance and the DNA you were born with, and we all have to accept the hands we're dealt and live within that reality. But life doesn't have to be additionally unfair because of  imposed systems of disenfranchisement that only affect certain groups. We can fight against that.

Feminism isn't about striving for individual fairness, on a life-by-life basis-it's about fighting against a systematic  removal of opportunity that infringes on women's basic freedoms.
 
2013-04-03 01:03:24 PM
WhippingBoy:

You're right, but you missed some of the following privileges:

A greater likelihood of ending up homeless.
Much higher rate of suicide.
Much greater likelihood that I'll be expected to actually fight in a war.
More opportunities for intense physical jobs that will slowly destroy my body and send me to an early grave.
Presumed guilty until proven innocent in domestic disputes.


All things feminism are fighting to change and help - and you forgot that men's right's favorite, the disparity problems with alimony and assumptions made when assigning child custody.  Because there are problems with all of those and many of them come from things men set up based on male/female stereotyped gender roles.So we agree they should be addressed and that men have been put upon by a patriarchal system on bullshiat stilts.

The rest of the responses to what I've said have been some of the most entertaining petulant cranking I've read in... hours.  If you gents will excuse me, I have to go get some shiat done, including cooking dinner tonight.  Which will be in fact done barefoot.  In the kitchen.  Because I don't like socks, as it happens.
 
2013-04-03 01:04:16 PM
I'll trade you "higher rate of suicide" AND "chance of being drafted into war" for equal pay for equal work and a sammich.

/ sigh
 
2013-04-03 01:05:19 PM

KhamanV: sure haven't: KhamanV: Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against - bullshiat gender roles based on bullshiat concepts perpetrated throughout bullshiat history, all there to help men not get that sort of doofus Chevy Chase stereotype bullshiat either. Crazy, I know.

Um, you can't have a word that only represents one gender, and then say it supports both genders.

You can have a concept that embraces more than what the original signifier states.  The fight for gay rights umbrellas trans/bi/pansexual/genderqueer, etc, although (yes, semantically problematically in this case) most people refer to it by the one term.  What'sa matter?  You don't want a bunch of girls and their girly word sticking up for men's rights, too?


I was sorta with you there until that Poe's Law of a last sentence.
 
2013-04-03 01:05:59 PM

WhippingBoy: You're right, but you missed some of the following privileges:

A greater likelihood of ending up homeless.
Much higher rate of suicide.


Feminists do not want you to commit suicide. Any pressures and expectations that lower the quality of life of any gender are part of patriarchy. The fact that depression is characterized as an effeminate weakness, making men less likely to seek treatment, is part of patriarchy.

Much greater likelihood that I'll be expected to actually fight in a war.

Feminists do not want you to be drafted and then die in a war while we stay home and iron stuff. The idea that women are too weak to fight or too delicate to function in a military setting is part of patriarchy.

More opportunities for intense physical jobs that will slowly destroy my body and send me to an early grave.

Feminists do not want you to be maimed or killed in industrial accidents, or toil in coal mines while we do cushy secretarial work and various yarn-themed activities. The fact that women have long been shut out of dangerous industrial jobs (by men, by the way) is part of patriarchy.

Presumed guilty until proven innocent in domestic disputes.

Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges, nor do we want men to be ridiculed for being raped or abused. The idea that women are naturally gentle and compliant and that victimhood is inherently feminine is part of patriarchy.

In any case, eow exactly do you know what it's like to be me? Check your privilege, sister. Check your privilege.

Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.
 
2013-04-03 01:08:26 PM

CleanAndPure: Women outnumber men. If they are being oppressed in this day and age with numerical superiority... larger numbers being educated... laws tipped in their favour... all the extra advantages...

Well that just makes them a bunch of pussies.


Seriously... There are so many social injustices these days... and so many legitimate things to grieve about. Feminism and this feeling of being a victim of sexism in this day and age makes no sense. (For 99% of population that is).


Many of the "social injustices" in the world directly relate to being female. Someone constantly screaming "sexism" because they were hit on a bar isn't the same as demanding equal rights for both genders. Maybe you're just thinking about the U.S.
 
2013-04-03 01:10:10 PM

KhamanV: WhippingBoy:

You're right, but you missed some of the following privileges:

A greater likelihood of ending up homeless.
Much higher rate of suicide.
Much greater likelihood that I'll be expected to actually fight in a war.
More opportunities for intense physical jobs that will slowly destroy my body and send me to an early grave.
Presumed guilty until proven innocent in domestic disputes.

All things feminism are fighting to change and help - and you forgot that men's right's favorite, the disparity problems with alimony and assumptions made when assigning child custody.  Because there are problems with all of those and many of them come from things men set up based on male/female stereotyped gender roles.So we agree they should be addressed and that men have been put upon by a patriarchal system on bullshiat stilts.

The rest of the responses to what I've said have been some of the most entertaining petulant cranking I've read in... hours.  If you gents will excuse me, I have to go get some shiat done, including cooking dinner tonight.  Which will be in fact done barefoot.  In the kitchen.  Because I don't like socks, as it happens.


That's right, you'd better run!!!
 
2013-04-03 01:11:52 PM

sure haven't: KhamanV: sure haven't: KhamanV:

I was sorta with you there until that Poe's Law of a last sentence.


Sorry, was getting cranky.

WhippingBoy: Switch to decaf and go look at some kitten pictures, y'all mad.
 
2013-04-03 01:13:29 PM

Disaster Transport: I'll trade you "higher rate of suicide" AND "chance of being drafted into war" for equal pay for equal work and a sammich.

/ sigh


You've got the pay thing.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

Or were you thinking that a woman who works 30 hours a week should be paid the same as a man who works 50 hours a week?

I'll get started on the sammich. What flavour?
 
2013-04-03 01:15:02 PM
@DisasterTransport.

Absolutely I meant the Western world.

Sexism is still a huge problem in most of the rest of the world.

- being hit on in bar... not sexism just men being jackasses... unless it continues to harassment... which we have laws against.

- men can't do laundry in ads... not sexism just advertisers trying to sell products.

- legal rape... laws where women are property are men... excluding women from jobs or society... these are sexist and should be stopped... but mostly do not exist in west.
 
2013-04-03 01:18:56 PM

Car_Ramrod: Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.


If I Admit That 'Hating Men' Is a Thing, Will You Stop Turning It Into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

If you "break down and admit" something, would you stop acting like it's insulting that you should even have to admit it and then somehow manage to immediately state, "well, it's all men's fault anyway" like something deeply meaningful just happened?  So far, my best guess is "*tsk* whut UVER!"
 
2013-04-03 01:20:08 PM
Remarkable women. I celebrate them.

oi56.tinypic.com

webwall.files.wordpress.com

oi55.tinypic.com

4.bp.blogspot.com

greenobles.com
 
2013-04-03 01:22:33 PM

Car_Ramrod: Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.


I have an issue taking anything they say seriously after this.

KhamanV: All things feminism are fighting to change and help


Your statement suggests you are unfamiliar with the work of Erin Pizzey.
 
2013-04-03 01:23:55 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Remarkable women. I celebrate them.


Those women are being objectified and oppressed and demeaned!!!1  And probably cleaning more in an hour than I do in a month.  Will somebody release them from the mascara smirched chains of the patriarchy?
 
2013-04-03 01:25:05 PM

Car_Ramrod: 1) Read what was written


Maybe you should take your own advice:

KhamanV: It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.


That is condescending as all hell and you know it. You know exactly what my life is like but I can't possibly fathom yours. Just fark off.

Car_Ramrod: 2) "The life of every white male isn't perfect, so why should people be trying to remove the built-in societal biases that statistically favor white men over other groups?"


Do whatever the fark you want. Just don't expect any help from me. I have better things to do with my time than to sit there and be called an asshole for events that I have had zero control over.
 
2013-04-03 01:25:27 PM

rustypouch: Disaster Transport: I'll trade you "higher rate of suicide" AND "chance of being drafted into war" for equal pay for equal work and a sammich.

/ sigh

You've got the pay thing.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

Or were you thinking that a woman who works 30 hours a week should be paid the same as a man who works 50 hours a week?

I'll get started on the sammich. What flavour?


Anyone who goes on about women making pennies on the dollar is a brainwashed college student stuck with 80's and 90's statistics. The problem is now in specific industries and specific companies, and the it takes a long time for those sort of real life concepts to bubble into schools.

The more pernicious problem is that employers won't promote women above certain positions, particularly in companies where those positions all seem to be dominated by certain fraternities; this is a serious problem in the financial industry. The CEO and C-level exec world runs on the same good ol' boys club, which women are very slowly making their way into. This is where those averaged compensation numbers come from. Then there are lots of employers that automatically assume women will quit or take baby leaves soon, whether or not they ever get pregnant at all, and thus shouldn't be promoted beyond being a cog in the wheel.

As usual, it's a problem that will only get better as the Baby Boomers die off, along with their death grip on ruining the world.
 
2013-04-03 01:26:50 PM

Quinsisdos: I have an issue taking anything they say seriously after this.


Women are doing virtually everything these days that men are

So, men suck.

Women are now doing everything that men are.  This is called equality because equality means being allowed to flaunt your ability to participate in the most hated and base behaviors of the "enemy".

Paging Alanis Morrisette.
 
2013-04-03 01:27:25 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.

If I Admit That 'Hating Men' Is a Thing, Will You Stop Turning It Into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

If you "break down and admit" something, would you stop acting like it's insulting that you should even have to admit it and then somehow manage to immediately state, "well, it's all men's fault anyway" like something deeply meaningful just happened?  So far, my best guess is "*tsk* whut UVER!"


So you missed the point of the article. There are some rare instances of women hating men. Just like there are cases of men hating women. But those outliers do not define the feminist movement. But if you do define the movement by a few random women being mean to you, then you'll be more angry at women, which will get them angry at you, and thus the self-fulfilling prophesy.

Most feminists don't hate men, as a group (we hate thesystem that disproportionately favors men at the expense of women), but - congratulations! - we are starting to hate you. You, the person. Your obsession with misandry has turned misandry into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (I mean, sort of. Hating individual men is not the same as hating all men. But more on that in a minute.) Are you happy now? Is this what you wanted? Feminism is, in essence, a social justice movement-it wants to take the side of the alienated and the marginalized, and that includes alienated and marginalized men. Please stop turning us against you.
 
2013-04-03 01:28:22 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Remarkable women. I celebrate them.

[oi56.tinypic.com image 670x978]

[webwall.files.wordpress.com image 850x531]

[oi55.tinypic.com image 850x1145]

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x1152]

[greenobles.com image 850x566]


You, sir, are a truly great man!
 
2013-04-03 01:31:02 PM
The women they could have included must have been on their periods the day they posed for the picture, or making sammiches or something. You know, chick stuff.
 
2013-04-03 01:32:39 PM

Quinsisdos: Car_Ramrod: Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.

I have an issue taking anything they say seriously after this.

KhamanV: All things feminism are fighting to change and help

Your statement suggests you are unfamiliar with the work of Erin Pizzey.


There are MRAs who would literally chain women to the house and strip them of all rights, do you lump people who just want fairness in family court with that?

What I'm saying is, there are loud crazy people who associate themselves with all movements.
 
2013-04-03 01:33:01 PM

KhamanV: WhippingBoy: Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself

You got the wrong lesson.  You have nothing to be ashamed of; you got lucky - you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it.  You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships!  It's not a perfect system for everyone).  People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers.  It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about.  It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

All anyone without that privilege - another color, another gender - wants is for you to take a moment when you see something go a different way for someone else when it wouldn't have for you and go "Whoa.  That sorta sucks.  That's unfair.  I just want whoever that is to be treated like me."

Nobody wants to take the privilege of being a white dude away from you.  They just want to make it a little easier being born a different way.


You know who has it rough?  Blondes with big boobs.
 
2013-04-03 01:34:29 PM

umad: Car_Ramrod: 1) Read what was written

Maybe you should take your own advice:

KhamanV: It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

That is condescending as all hell and you know it. You know exactly what my life is like but I can't possibly fathom yours. Just fark off.

Car_Ramrod: 2) "The life of every white male isn't perfect, so why should people be trying to remove the built-in societal biases that statistically favor white men over other groups?"

Do whatever the fark you want. Just don't expect any help from me. I have better things to do with my time than to sit there and be called an asshole for events that I have had zero control over.


No one is attacking you, dude, or saying your life is perfect. All that's being said is that there are undeniable biases set in society that statistically favor men over women. They might not affect you specifically, and thus might not even be aware they exist, so you think it's all bullshiat. The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems. So stop being defensive, try to understand where other people are coming from, and your life just might get better as well.
 
2013-04-03 01:35:37 PM

Car_Ramrod: Please stop turning us against you.


Well as long as any loose definition proffered by any woman anywhere on earth is etched in stone and, eventually, it's my fault.  Feminism isn't anything anymore on any level that promotes anything resembling social justice.  It started out as a very useful, long overdue and worthwhile social movement and it is now a T-Shirt, a board game, a handful of hate filled screeds full of gymnastically stated and self-promoting ideological venom, and mostly, an industry.  It moves money around.  And when those trying to promote global feminism pack up the manifesto and move en masse to countries where women really are treated like chattel and brood mares and dirt beneath the feet of men and start slapping the sh*t out of the people who treat them that way, I'll resubscribe.  Until then all of the repetitive pissing and moaning from a tastefully decorated 3 B/R flat over a lattè and a MacBook Air is just that.
 
2013-04-03 01:37:36 PM
Y'all mutherf*ckers need jebus. And a few beers.
 
2013-04-03 01:38:38 PM

Quinsisdos: Car_Ramrod: Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.

I have an issue taking anything they say seriously after this.


Why? Because they're highlighting a study about how  men shouldn't be overlooked as victims of domestic violence? Are you saying a few bad apples ruin the entire batch? There are some shiatty women out there, that's not being disputed. So what's your point?

Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges, nor do we want men to be ridiculed for being raped or abused. The idea that women are naturally gentle and compliant and that victimhood is inherently feminine is part of patriarchy.
 
2013-04-03 01:40:22 PM
WhippingBoy:
You're right, but you missed some of the following privileges:

A greater likelihood of ending up homeless.
Much higher rate of suicide.
Much greater likelihood that I'll be expected to actually fight in a war.
More opportunities for intense physical jobs that will slowly destroy my body and send me to an early grave.
Presumed guilty until proven innocent in domestic disputes.

In any case, eow exactly do you know what it's like to be me? Check your privilege, sister. Check your privilege.


i.imgur.com

Click to embiggen.
 
2013-04-03 01:40:51 PM

sure haven't: Car_Ramrod: based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

Should we make a thread about the "dumb white man" trope that persists in every. single. advertising. medium. on earth?

Cause that one never gets old.
Oh look, the stupid incompetent child-man father cut the grass with that old rusted mower, now his eternally patien highly intelligent wife needs to take him to home depot to a sale only she heard about.


THIS.  Enough about misogyny. What's really important here is that the triumphs and travails of white men aren't celebrated every minute of every day.
 
2013-04-03 01:43:09 PM
Yikes, something happened along the way to make that graphic unreadable.

Sorry all, that was unintentional.
 
2013-04-03 01:43:26 PM

Car_Ramrod: umad: Car_Ramrod: 1) Read what was written

Maybe you should take your own advice:

KhamanV: It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

That is condescending as all hell and you know it. You know exactly what my life is like but I can't possibly fathom yours. Just fark off.

Car_Ramrod: 2) "The life of every white male isn't perfect, so why should people be trying to remove the built-in societal biases that statistically favor white men over other groups?"

Do whatever the fark you want. Just don't expect any help from me. I have better things to do with my time than to sit there and be called an asshole for events that I have had zero control over.

No one is attacking you, dude, or saying your life is perfect. All that's being said is that there are undeniable biases set in society that statistically favor men over women. They might not affect you specifically, and thus might not even be aware they exist, so you think it's all bullshiat.


You see these words that I highlighted? Nothing of the sort was included in her post.

The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems.

Horseshiat. Just pure horseshiat.

So stop being defensive, try to understand where other people are coming from, and your life just might get better as well.

I am a white man and as such I am incapable of understanding where other people are coming from. My life of privilege makes such a thing impossible.
 
2013-04-03 01:45:08 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: Please stop turning us against you.

Well as long as any loose definition proffered by any woman anywhere on earth is etched in stone and, eventually, it's my fault.  Feminism isn't anything anymore on any level that promotes anything resembling social justice.  It started out as a very useful, long overdue and worthwhile social movement and it is now a T-Shirt, a board game, a handful of hate filled screeds full of gymnastically stated and self-promoting ideological venom, and mostly, an industry.  It moves money around.  And when those trying to promote global feminism pack up the manifesto and move en masse to countries where women really are treated like chattel and brood mares and dirt beneath the feet of men and start slapping the sh*t out of the people who treat them that way, I'll resubscribe.  Until then all of the repetitive pissing and moaning from a tastefully decorated 3 B/R flat over a lattè and a MacBook Air is just that.


So you're saying misogyny is no longer an issue in this country? That all the topics feminism discusses have been solved? Whew, what a relief! Thanks for the update! I forgot that since women aren't being treated (at least not on a widespread basis) as literal property, American feminists are wasting their time! What high standards we've set for our country! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Your little rant says a lot more about you than it does about feminism. There's no need to be so angry and spiteful.
 
2013-04-03 01:45:18 PM

Car_Ramrod: hinten: The War on Women (tm) enabled by whom?

[sas-origin.onstreammedia.com image 294x244]

Liberated women and men exercising their rights.

´
Daddy figures win.

[media.gallup.com image 564x324]

Victim or enabler?

[sas-origin.onstreammedia.com image 508x383]

None of your charts make any sense towards any sort of point.


I was hoping someone else post a clue what those mean. So maybe you're right.
 
2013-04-03 01:45:20 PM

Elegy: Yikes, something happened along the way to make that graphic unreadable.

Sorry all, that was unintentional.


I blame the Patriarchy.
 
2013-04-03 01:46:53 PM
The best part of this is that, as victimhood is stretched like a K-Mart tarp, further and further to cover everybody on earth who isn't white and a man, the only people being called upon to "fix" it is those damn oppressive white men.  How?  Simple.  "Move the f*ck out of the way and give us all your sh*t!"  That's not fixing injustice, that's a jack.  The wealthy and powerful have learned centuries ago that to manage the serfs, you need to give them bread and keep them assured that they are the source of each other's misery.  What better way to divide and conquer than do set up a border war between the two halves of the most basic equation on earth?  Y'all can guzzle this Kool Aid until they etch the name of the Kool Aid salesman into headstone.  I've seen this movie and it's a loop.
 
2013-04-03 01:49:17 PM

umad: You see these words that I highlighted? Nothing of the sort was included in her post.


So you think the poster was insinuating that you benefit from every single societal norm that statistically favors men, and they think your life should be perfect? That's reading a lot into it.

The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems.

Horseshiat. Just pure horseshiat.

Which part, and why?

So stop being defensive, try to understand where other people are coming from, and your life just might get better as well.

I am a white man and as such I am incapable of understanding where other people are coming from. My life of privilege makes such a thing impossible.


STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
 
2013-04-03 01:51:28 PM

Elegy: Yikes, something happened along the way to make that graphic unreadable.

Sorry all, that was unintentional.


With such nuggets of wisdom as "Women often cite men's inability to commit, yet 75% of divorces are initiated by women", it was unreadable to begin with.
 
2013-04-03 01:51:51 PM

Car_Ramrod: So you're saying misogyny is no longer an issue in this country?


No.  I'm saying that misogyny, misandry, dime store racist bullsh*t and every other bad idea are no longer an issue in any country, but no longer an issue anywhere on the planet.  I'm saying they are commodities that have been around for f*cking ever and a great way to keep people who desperately need somebody to hate and blame who is within reach, and not in an ivory tower, well in line and fighting each other for bread. And that they work like a charm.  Feminism is one more good idea that met most of it's stated goals early on and got whored out like everything else does that wants to survive, because nothing survives unless it moves money around and the goals stopped being the point a long time ago.
 
2013-04-03 01:52:04 PM

sure haven't: KhamanV: Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against - bullshiat gender roles based on bullshiat concepts perpetrated throughout bullshiat history, all there to help men not get that sort of doofus Chevy Chase stereotype bullshiat either. Crazy, I know.

Um, you can't have a word that only represents one gender, and then say it supports both genders.


You mean like "he" or "him" when referring to a generic person?  Or like "man" when referring to humankind?

Years ago there was actually a medical article on breast cancer that referred to the generic patient as "he," because a small percentage of breast cancer cases are men, and some editors think that if the population being described has both genders, the generic individual should be referred to as "he" or  "him."
 
2013-04-03 01:52:59 PM

foxyshadis: What I'm saying is, there are loud crazy people who associate themselves with all movements.


"Meanwhile, our little house was packed with women fleeing their violent partners - sometimes as many as 56 mothers and children in four rooms. All had terrible stories, but I recognised almost immediately that not all the women were innocent. Some were as violent as the men, and violent towards their children.

I was determined to try to break the chain of violence. But as the local newspaper picked up the story of our house, I grew worried about a very different threat. I knew that the radical feminist movement was running out of national support because more sensible women had shunned their anti-male, anti-family agenda. Not only were they looking for a cause, they also wanted money. In 1974, the women living in my refuge organised a meeting in our local church hall to encourage other groups to open refuges across the country. We were astonished and frightened that many of the radical lesbian and feminist activists that I had seen in the collectives attended. They began to vote themselves into a national movement across the country. After a stormy argument, I left the hall with my abused mothers - and what I had most feared happened. In a matter of months, the feminist movement hijacked the domestic violence movement, not just in Britain, but internationally. Our grant was given to them and they had a legitimate reason to hate and blame all men. They came out with sweeping statements which were as biased as they were ignorant. "All women are innocent victims of men's violence," they declared. They opened most of the refuges in the country and banned men from working in them or sitting on their governing committees.

When, in the mid-Eighties, I published Prone To Violence, about my work with violence-prone women and their children, I was picketed by hundreds of women from feminist refuges, holding placards which read: "All men are bastards" and "All men are rapists". Because of violent threats, I had to have a police escort around the country.

In 1990, Harriet Harman (who became a Cabinet minister), Anna Coote (who became an adviser to Labour's Minister for Women) and Patricia Hewitt (yes, she's in the Labour Cabinet, too!) expressed their beliefs in a social policy paper called The Family Way. It said: "It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life, or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social harmony and cohesion." It was a staggering attack on men and their role in modern life. Hewitt, in a book by Geoff Dench called Transforming Men published in 1995, said: "But if we want fathers to play a full role in their children's lives, then we need to bring men into the playgroups and nurseries and the schools. And here, of course, we hit the immediate difficulty of whether we can trust men with children." In 1998, however, the Home Office published a historic study which stipulated that men as well as women could be victims of domestic violence. With that report in my hand, I tried to reason with Joan Ruddock, who was then Minister for Women. The figures for battered men were "minuscule" she insisted and she continued to refer to men only as "perpetrators". ... I look back with sadness to my young self and my vision that there could be places where people - men, women and children who have suffered physical and sexual abuse - could find help, and if they were violent could be given a second chance to learn to live peacefully. I believe that vision was hijacked by vengeful women who have ghetto-ised the refuge movement and used it to persecute men. Surely the time has come to challenge this evil ideology and insist that men take their rightful place in the refuge movement. We need an inclusive movement that offers support to everyone that needs it. As for me - I will always continue to work with anyone who needs my help or can help others - and yes, that includes men." --
Erin Pizzey, a woman I deeply respect for her work on the field of domestic violence. What she fails to mention is she eventually had to leave the country after her young grandchildren started reciving death threats. Her dog was murdered on Christmas Day.

There is a difference between "a few nut jobs" and a determined group of people who actually manage to have a negative effect on society.

I'm sorry, but as long as the more moderate feminists continue to fail to call out and remove the more radical members of their movement, especially transphobic radfems like Cathy Brennan, I will not call myself a part of it. I'm tired of NAFALT.
 
2013-04-03 01:53:17 PM

Car_Ramrod: Elegy: Yikes, something happened along the way to make that graphic unreadable.

Sorry all, that was unintentional.

With such nuggets of wisdom as "Women often cite men's inability to commit, yet 75% of divorces are initiated by women", it was unreadable to begin with.


So holding women accountable for their actions, especially when they don't jive with their stated beliefs, is a bad thing?
 
2013-04-03 01:53:54 PM

Car_Ramrod: Your little rant says a lot more about you than it does about feminism.


Sell it to Jesus, Dr,. Freud.  I tend to fart in the general direction of nebulous authority postures.  Don't blame yourself.
 
2013-04-03 01:54:56 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: So you're saying misogyny is no longer an issue in this country?

No.  I'm saying that misogyny, misandry, dime store racist bullsh*t and every other bad idea are no longer an issue in any country, but no longer an issue anywhere on the planet.  I'm saying they are commodities that have been around for f*cking ever and a great way to keep people who desperately need somebody to hate and blame who is within reach, and not in an ivory tower, well in line and fighting each other for bread. And that they work like a charm.  Feminism is one more good idea that met most of it's stated goals early on and got whored out like everything else does that wants to survive, because nothing survives unless it moves money around and the goals stopped being the point a long time ago.


I'm curious as to what you think were the stated goals of feminism that were met early on. And when they were met.
 
2013-04-03 01:57:46 PM

rustypouch: Car_Ramrod: Elegy: Yikes, something happened along the way to make that graphic unreadable.

Sorry all, that was unintentional.

With such nuggets of wisdom as "Women often cite men's inability to commit, yet 75% of divorces are initiated by women", it was unreadable to begin with.

So holding women accountable for their actions, especially when they don't jive with their stated beliefs, is a bad thing?


1) Cliches about women do not equate stated beliefs.

2) General relationship commitment and failed marriages are not comparable topics.

3) The assumption is that women get divorces because they can't commit, when it could be 1,000 reasons, including infidelity or abuse.

It's a bullshiat bumper sticker "point".
 
2013-04-03 01:58:56 PM

Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....
[i.imgur.com image 300x246]


Maybe that's because Women's Studies isn't a viable career for almost everyone.
 
2013-04-03 02:02:36 PM

Car_Ramrod: umad: You see these words that I highlighted? Nothing of the sort was included in her post.

So you think the poster was insinuating that you benefit from every single societal norm that statistically favors men, and they think your life should be perfect? That's reading a lot into it.


God you're an idiot. The poster was insinuating that we are incapable of even recognizing a single societal norm that statistically favors men simply because we are men. It is only reading what she wrote into it. Why are you white knighting for her anyway? Don't you think she is a big girl and can defend herself?

The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems.

Horseshiat. Just pure horseshiat.

Which part, and why?


All of it. It is obviously horseshiat because they don't say a word about things that benefit women over men. You know, the things that have been mentioned by other men in this thread like suicide rates, on the job fatalities, longer prison sentences for the same crimes, the travesty that is our family court system etc. If you really care about benefitting men as well then you would be just as vocal about those issues as you are about the old standbyes.

STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

This is also where the "woman hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are just returning the favor.
 
2013-04-03 02:06:52 PM
i45.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-03 02:06:53 PM

rustypouch: So holding women accountable for their actions, especially when they don't jive with their stated beliefs, is a bad thing?


Do you even own a calendar?  That is utterly unforgivable, sexist, hateful and shows you as a shibboleth and a fascist!  You have to admit, though, that feminism - or what's being sold under that label lately - DOES have one amazing app.  "If you do not completely agree with every single statement I make and any assertions I have plainly stated to be nothing more than undeniable truth, it only serves to reveal YOU as a hate mongering, oppressive, reprehensible sonofab*tch who puts puppies on spikes and sells 9 year old girls for crack money, and you are probably scared some strong, enlightened woman will cut your peepee off!"  If nothing else, you have to admit that the ostensible moral high ground is a tidy back forty.  It's beauty of talking point ideology.
 
2013-04-03 02:09:47 PM

Car_Ramrod: I'm curious as to what you think were the stated goals of feminism that were met early on. And when they were met.


No you're not.   :  )
 
2013-04-03 02:17:55 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: I'm curious as to what you think were the stated goals of feminism that were met early on. And when they were met.

No you're not.   :  )


I, too, am curious as to what you think were the stated goals of feminism that were met early on, and when they were met.
 
2013-04-03 02:21:30 PM
What a shocking display of cis privilege.  Those are women on the billboard.  So people get offended just because they don't live up to patriarchically-imposed norms on what a woman should look and dress like?  Talk about gender-policing...

Check your privilege.
 
2013-04-03 02:24:19 PM

umad: Car_Ramrod: umad: You see these words that I highlighted? Nothing of the sort was included in her post.

So you think the poster was insinuating that you benefit from every single societal norm that statistically favors men, and they think your life should be perfect? That's reading a lot into it.

God you're an idiot. The poster was insinuating that we are incapable of even recognizing a single societal norm that statistically favors men simply because we are men. It is only reading what she wrote into it. Why are you white knighting for her anyway? Don't you think she is a big girl and can defend herself?


If I agree with another poster that is a woman, I'm whiteknighting her. Cool beans.

The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems.

Horseshiat. Just pure horseshiat.

Which part, and why?

All of it. It is obviously horseshiat because they don't say a word about things that benefit women over men. You know, the things that have been mentioned by other men in this thread like suicide rates, on the job fatalities, longer prison sentences for the same crimes, the travesty that is our family court system etc. If you really care about benefitting men as well then you would be just as vocal about those issues as you are about the old standbyes.


If you can stand it, read part four of this article that I've posted and quoted multiple times in this thread. Some examples:

Feminists do not want you to lose custody of your children. The assumption that women are naturally better caregivers is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to have to make alimony payments. Alimony is set up to combat the fact that women have been historically expected to prioritize domestic duties over professional goals, thus minimizing their earning potential if their "traditional" marriages end. The assumption that wives should make babies instead of money is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to commit suicide. Any pressures and expectations that lower the quality of life of any gender are part of patriarchy. The fact that depression is characterized as an effeminate weakness, making men less likely to seek treatment, is part of patriarchy.


and finally:

STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

This is also where the "woman hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are just returning the favor.


This is just childish.
 
2013-04-03 02:25:01 PM

umad: Car_Ramrod: 1) Read what was written

Maybe you should take your own advice:

KhamanV: It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

That is condescending as all hell and you know it. You know exactly what my life is like but I can't possibly fathom yours. Just fark off.

Car_Ramrod: 2) "The life of every white male isn't perfect, so why should people be trying to remove the built-in societal biases that statistically favor white men over other groups?"

Do whatever the fark you want. Just don't expect any help from me. I have better things to do with my time than to sit there and be called an asshole for events that I have had zero control over.


Amen, sibling, Amen.

I am 50 years-old. I appear to be white. I am male.

Things I have not done in my life:

Been part of the 'Good old boys network".
Kept the brothers down.
Kept the women in their place.
Discriminated against anyone based on; Skin color, sex, age, gender, physical abilities, or religious affiliation.

But, even after spending a youth campaigning for equal rights, I run up against the bias against those of us who appear to be white males. To every hate group out there, I am just another oppressor.

I know, some how, by discriminating against men born after 1950, it levels the playing field. In some way, maybe, perhaps.

/yes, I still hold open doors for others
//just because special rightist's
///harbor enough hate for all of us
 
2013-04-03 02:31:04 PM
What I'm curious about, you smirking, self-assured kool aid fans, is at what point in history are you sure that there were no women with any money, social leverage, businesses they owned, control over their own bodies to the degree that prudence and medicine allowed, or generally were chained up to a stove against their will as a normative social construct.  After WWI, Kimberly Clark started selling huge, absorptive bandages that were invented to staunch heavy bleeding in field medical units.  Those became feminine sanitary napkins.  It's not that we don't all benefit somewhat from the architecture of war, it's just that this endless loop of "nuh UH!" "yuh HUH!" war benefits nobody.  And it's gotten monotonous.  Equal access to positions in business have always gone to the people who started the business, their genitals notwithstanding.  Abortions?  Yeah, we got those.  Free, if you need that.  Wanna be a man?  Not comfortable in your body?  Lie down here and peruse this plethora or prosthetics and procedures.  Demand to be supported by society should you decide to reproduce without some pesky man around or some archaic notion of family or marriage?  Fill this out.  Fine.  Nifty.  But "nuh UH!" has a beard to it's balls and the only people getting anything out of it are T-shirt manufacturers.  Blessed are the T makers.
 
2013-04-03 02:35:00 PM

foxyshadis: rustypouch: Disaster Transport: I'll trade you "higher rate of suicide" AND "chance of being drafted into war" for equal pay for equal work and a sammich.

/ sigh

You've got the pay thing.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

Or were you thinking that a woman who works 30 hours a week should be paid the same as a man who works 50 hours a week?

I'll get started on the sammich. What flavour?

Anyone who goes on about women making pennies on the dollar is a brainwashed college student stuck with 80's and 90's statistics. The problem is now in specific industries and specific companies, and the it takes a long time for those sort of real life concepts to bubble into schools.

The more pernicious problem is that employers won't promote women above certain positions, particularly in companies where those positions all seem to be dominated by certain fraternities; this is a serious problem in the financial industry. The CEO and C-level exec world runs on the same good ol' boys club, which women are very slowly making their way into. This is where those averaged compensation numbers come from. Then there are lots of employers that automatically assume women will quit or take baby leaves soon, whether or not they ever get pregnant at all, and thus shouldn't be promoted beyond being a cog in the wheel.

As usual, it's a problem that will only get better as the Baby Boomers die off, along with their death grip on ruining the world.


So, Civil Rights are evil to Millennials?

How ageist of you.

Car_Ramrod: bunner: Car_Ramrod: Please stop turning us against you.

Well as long as any loose definition proffered by any woman anywhere on earth is etched in stone and, eventually, it's my fault.  Feminism isn't anything anymore on any level that promotes anything resembling social justice.  It started out as a very useful, long overdue and worthwhile social movement and it is now a T-Shirt, a board game, a handful of hate filled screeds full of gymnastically stated and self-promoting ideological venom, and mostly, an industry.  It moves money around.  And when those trying to promote global feminism pack up the manifesto and move en masse to countries where women really are treated like chattel and brood mares and dirt beneath the feet of men and start slapping the sh*t out of the people who treat them that way, I'll resubscribe.  Until then all of the repetitive pissing and moaning from a tastefully decorated 3 B/R flat over a lattè and a MacBook Air is just that.

So you're saying misogyny is no longer an issue in this country? That all the topics feminism discusses have been solved? Whew, what a relief! Thanks for the update! I forgot that since women aren't being treated (at least not on a widespread basis) as literal property, American feminists are wasting their time! What high standards we've set for our country! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Your little rant says a lot more about you than it does about feminism. There's no need to be so angry and spiteful.


Says the misandrist.

Keep hating men, it never gets old, and it never turns off the audience.
 
2013-04-03 02:38:38 PM

Slam1263: Things I have not done in my life:Been part of the 'Good old boys network".Kept the brothers down.Kept the women in their place.Discriminated against anyone based on; Skin color, sex, age, gender, physical abilities, or religious affiliation.


You think that, but you have benefited endlessly from the Caucasian patriarchy in every aspect of your existence and that construct exists purely to oppress the groups you mentioned, and so, your personal life and every aspect of it and your conscionable behavior are moot, meaningless, a lie and an affront to the oppressed.  No, seriously.  Somebody on a campus somewhere is saying this with a straight face as we speak.  It's called "rectitude by implied moral piety and moral high ground kidnapping."  The only way to overcome it is to realize that your watching people who are ramping up to die over who has to pick up a pair of dirty socks off the floor.  After that, the world gets a lot less urgent.  It still smells like the ass end of a goat, but it's less puzzling.
 
2013-04-03 02:41:00 PM

bunner: What I'm curious about, you smirking, self-assured kool aid fans, is at what point in history are you sure that there were no women with any money, social leverage, businesses they owned, control over their own bodies to the degree that prudence and medicine allowed, or generally were chained up to a stove against their will as a normative social construct.  After WWI, Kimberly Clark started selling huge, absorptive bandages that were invented to staunch heavy bleeding in field medical units.  Those became feminine sanitary napkins.  It's not that we don't all benefit somewhat from the architecture of war, it's just that this endless loop of "nuh UH!" "yuh HUH!" war benefits nobody.  And it's gotten monotonous.  Equal access to positions in business have always gone to the people who started the business, their genitals notwithstanding.  Abortions?  Yeah, we got those.  Free, if you need that.  Wanna be a man?  Not comfortable in your body?  Lie down here and peruse this plethora or prosthetics and procedures.  Demand to be supported by society should you decide to reproduce without some pesky man around or some archaic notion of family or marriage?  Fill this out.  Fine.  Nifty.  But "nuh UH!" has a beard to it's balls and the only people getting anything out of it are T-shirt manufacturers.  Blessed are the T makers.


Serious question here, because I care about you: are you having a stroke?
 
2013-04-03 02:43:05 PM

Slam1263: Says the misandrist.

Keep hating men, it never gets old, and it never turns off the audience.


What have I said that insinuates I'm a self-hating misandrist?
 
2013-04-03 02:44:03 PM

Car_Ramrod: Serious question here, because I care about you: are you having a stroke?


Didn't take you long to dive to the bottom of the discourse ladder, did it, Captain Justice?   :  )
 
2013-04-03 02:45:47 PM
media.tumblr.com

Is it me or are the third wave feminists and their mentally castrated white knights the biggest pussies on the planet?

It's a cheesy billboard with a funny mismatch between text and image.  Get the sand out of your collective vaginas, people.
 
2013-04-03 02:46:08 PM

Car_Ramrod: umad: Car_Ramrod: umad: You see these words that I highlighted? Nothing of the sort was included in her post.

So you think the poster was insinuating that you benefit from every single societal norm that statistically favors men, and they think your life should be perfect? That's reading a lot into it.

God you're an idiot. The poster was insinuating that we are incapable of even recognizing a single societal norm that statistically favors men simply because we are men. It is only reading what she wrote into it. Why are you white knighting for her anyway? Don't you think she is a big girl and can defend herself?

If I agree with another poster that is a woman, I'm whiteknighting her. Cool beans.

The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems.

Horseshiat. Just pure horseshiat.

Which part, and why?

All of it. It is obviously horseshiat because they don't say a word about things that benefit women over men. You know, the things that have been mentioned by other men in this thread like suicide rates, on the job fatalities, longer prison sentences for the same crimes, the travesty that is our family court system etc. If you really care about benefitting men as well then you would be just as vocal about those issues as you are about the old standbyes.


and finally:

STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

This is also where the "woman hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are just returning the favor.

This is just childish.


Says the person whom cannot fathom a diversive point of view.

Have you tried plugging your ears, and shouting lalalalala?
 
2013-04-03 02:49:56 PM

Slam1263: Car_Ramrod: umad: Car_Ramrod: umad: You see these words that I highlighted? Nothing of the sort was included in her post.

So you think the poster was insinuating that you benefit from every single societal norm that statistically favors men, and they think your life should be perfect? That's reading a lot into it.

God you're an idiot. The poster was insinuating that we are incapable of even recognizing a single societal norm that statistically favors men simply because we are men. It is only reading what she wrote into it. Why are you white knighting for her anyway? Don't you think she is a big girl and can defend herself?

If I agree with another poster that is a woman, I'm whiteknighting her. Cool beans.

The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems.

Horseshiat. Just pure horseshiat.

Which part, and why?

All of it. It is obviously horseshiat because they don't say a word about things that benefit women over men. You know, the things that have been mentioned by other men in this thread like suicide rates, on the job fatalities, longer prison sentences for the same crimes, the travesty that is our family court system etc. If you really care about benefitting men as well then you would be just as vocal about those issues as you are about the old standbyes.

and finally:

STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

This is also where the "woman hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are just returning the favor.

This is just childish.

Says the person whom cannot fathom a diversive point of view.

Have you tried plugging your ears, and shouting lalalalala?


Did.. did you just say that after cutting out the part of my response that rebutted his statement that feminists don't care about issues where women have a benefit over men? Were you trying to be that hypocritical, or was it an accident?
 
2013-04-03 02:51:08 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: Serious question here, because I care about you: are you having a stroke?

Didn't take you long to dive to the bottom of the discourse ladder, did it, Captain Justice?   :  )


I'm sorry, but instead of answering our legitimate question in response to your earlier rant, you throw back at us another word salad. I just don't understand what you're saying.
 
2013-04-03 02:55:59 PM

bunner: Slam1263: Things I have not done in my life:Been part of the 'Good old boys network".Kept the brothers down.Kept the women in their place.Discriminated against anyone based on; Skin color, sex, age, gender, physical abilities, or religious affiliation.

You think that, but you have benefited endlessly from the Caucasian patriarchy in every aspect of your existence and that construct exists purely to oppress the groups you mentioned, and so, your personal life and every aspect of it and your conscionable behavior are moot, meaningless, a lie and an affront to the oppressed.  No, seriously.  Somebody on a campus somewhere is saying this with a straight face as we speak.  It's called "rectitude by implied moral piety and moral high ground kidnapping."  The only way to overcome it is to realize that your watching people who are ramping up to die over who has to pick up a pair of dirty socks off the floor.  After that, the world gets a lot less urgent.  It still smells like the ass end of a goat, but it's less puzzling.


Oh, don't I know it.

I ran afoul of my WS's teacher back in 1994. She didn't like me to correct her about anything, especially in writing, as I didn't think it was proper to do so in class.

Car_Ramrod: Slam1263: Says the misandrist.

Keep hating men, it never gets old, and it never turns off the audience.

What have I said that insinuates I'm a self-hating misandrist?


Case in point: STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Simply pointing out the fallacies in your argument, is taking as hate.

I for one, love women. If it wasn't for one, I would not be here. Nor would I have the passion for equality that I do. Mom was a radical back when they actually tried to better humanity, rather than just a slogan.
 
2013-04-03 02:58:47 PM

Car_Ramrod: bunner: Car_Ramrod: Serious question here, because I care about you: are you having a stroke?

Didn't take you long to dive to the bottom of the discourse ladder, did it, Captain Justice?   :  )

I'm sorry, but instead of answering our legitimate question in response to your earlier rant, you throw back at us another word salad. I just don't understand what you're saying.


OH CRAP!!

I've been feeding a troll.

Damn, you are good. 8.5/10

I'm going to have to highlight you, in pink, just to keep up with your shennanigan's.
 
2013-04-03 03:00:21 PM

Slam1263: Car_Ramrod: Slam1263: Says the misandrist.

Keep hating men, it never gets old, and it never turns off the audience.

What have I said that insinuates I'm a self-hating misandrist?

Case in point: STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Simply pointing out the fallacies in your argument, is taking as hate.


Hahaha. Oh man, THAT makes me a misandrist? By pointing out that this bullshiat statement:

I am a white man and as such I am incapable of understanding where other people are coming from. My life of privilege makes such a thing impossible.

was nothing more than playing the victim card WHILE trying to nail himself up on some cross? How is that "pointing out fallacies in [my] argument"?
 
2013-04-03 03:01:56 PM

Car_Ramrod: I'm sorry, but instead of answering our legitimate question in response to your earlier rant, you throw back at us another word salad. I just don't understand what you're saying.


I believe the last sentence.

Slam1263: OH CRAP!!I've been feeding a troll.


www.neatorama.com

Could be, doc!
 
2013-04-03 03:04:56 PM
God, I hate you white people.
 
2013-04-03 03:08:26 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: I'm sorry, but instead of answering our legitimate question in response to your earlier rant, you throw back at us another word salad. I just don't understand what you're saying.

I believe the last sentence.

Slam1263: OH CRAP!!I've been feeding a troll.

[www.neatorama.com image 499x367]

Could be, doc!


You said:

Feminism is one more good idea that met most of it's stated goals early on and got whored out like everything else does that wants to survive

Then myself and another poster asked  what you think were the stated goals of feminism that were met early on, and when they were met.Is that not a legitimate question?

And I keep trying to read that post you wrote instead of an answer, and I don't understand the point you were trying to make. If you could explain it without jumping from wars to abortion to t-shirt companies, that would be great.
 
2013-04-03 03:08:38 PM
All you big time, infallible ideologists who bravely suffer the indignities of trying to enlighten those who don't buy what you're selling, I have a PSA.

The *second* you get all snotty, arrogant, condescending, dismissive and start blowing dime store bullsh*t at the people you are  disagreeing with, you have officially -

Dicked the dog, pissed in the petunias and generally tun out of sh*t to say and, bonus...

and any credible facets of your alleged argument are out behind the dumpster blowing sailors of Marlboros and pints of SoCo.  This is here your roll your eyes more and I shut off your misunderstood martyr malarkey because, frankly, it's been done better.
 
2013-04-03 03:10:02 PM

Car_Ramrod: was nothing more than playing the victim card WHILE trying to nail himself up on some cross? How is that "pointing out fallacies in [my] argument"?


Victim card? I was making fun of you, you farking idiot.
 
2013-04-03 03:13:09 PM

Car_Ramrod: I don't understand the point you were trying to make.


It might be that all of the "Oh yeah, I dare you to support that statement!" minutiae, talking point "gotcha" horsesh*t in the world ain't gonna repaint the big picture .  I do recall mentioning business ownership, medically staffed abortions, reproduction without being "oppressed" by a family structure that's male inclusive ( male inclusive, *snort*) and a few other things, but that's not what you're here for.  You're here to put pins in your "win" talking point salad board spaces.  You're here to demonstrate your inarguable moral superiority as a male feminist.  Because that's all feminism's tattered remains are good for, sadly.  And I'd be a complete hypocrite if I said I have a flying william or nilliam f*ck about that.
 
2013-04-03 03:14:32 PM

umad: Car_Ramrod: was nothing more than playing the victim card WHILE trying to nail himself up on some cross? How is that "pointing out fallacies in [my] argument"?

Victim card? I was making fun of you, you farking idiot.


www.reactiongifs.com
 
2013-04-03 03:16:48 PM

Car_Ramrod: I was making fun of you, you farking idiot.


www.reactiongifs.com

Thanks  for proving my point.  Bye, oh sir white the snotty.
 
2013-04-03 03:21:50 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: I don't understand the point you were trying to make.

It might be that all of the "Oh yeah, I dare you to support that statement!" minutiae, talking point "gotcha" horsesh*t in the world ain't gonna repaint the big picture .


"Gotcha horseshiat"? "Support that statement minutiae"? Don't hide your inability to answer a simple question behind Palin-esque empty phrases. "Feminists completed their stated goals long ago." "What goals and when?" "THAT'S A GOTCHA QUESTION!" How about you don't make statements you can't support? That's part of building a successful argument and having an actual discussion.

I do recall mentioning business ownership, medically staffed abortions, reproduction without being "oppressed" by a family structure that's male inclusive ( male inclusive, *snort*) and a few other things

Right, because abortion rights and general reproductive rights aren't being constantly threatened to be taken away from social conservatives in power in the House and various state governments. And OMG, some women are allowed to own businesses, then everything is equal now! Just like how Obama being President means there's no more racism!

And what are you talking about with "male inclusive"? Where did that come from?

but that's not what you're here for.  You're here to put pins in your "win" talking point salad board spaces.  You're here to demonstrate your inarguable moral superiority as a male feminist.  Because that's all feminism's tattered remains are good for, sadly.  And I'd be a complete hypocrite if I said I have a flying william or nilliam f*ck about that.

I'm here trying to talk about what I feel is the role of feminism in America today. I've linked and quoted an article that I feel makes some very strong points, and I'm trying to engage in conversation with people that seem very hostile to the very idea of feminism existing today.

And for not giving a fark, you seem to be posting quite a bit.
 
2013-04-03 03:25:18 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: I was making fun of you, you farking idiot.

[www.reactiongifs.com image 500x244]

Thanks  for proving my point.  Bye, oh sir white the snotty.


And Brave Sir bunner did run away after repeatedly refusing to answer a very simple question about his beliefs. Thank you for leading the way and showing what it means to lead a true discussion. Bravo.
 
2013-04-03 03:29:28 PM

Car_Ramrod: I'm here trying to talk about what I feel is the role of feminism in America today. I've linked and quoted an article that I feel makes some very strong points, and I'm trying to engage in conversation with people that seem very hostile to the very idea of feminism existing today.


Maybe you should try talking to people in a non-condescending manner and consider the fact that most of us Neanderthals who are still living in the dark ages haven't been indoctrinated with years of third-wave feminist dogma. You can't use the same conversation style with us retards as you do in your gender studies class. You seem very badly to want us to change, but you're not quite smart enough to understand that you can't get people to change by belittling their experiences or mocking everything they say.
 
2013-04-03 03:31:28 PM

Car_Ramrod: I'm here trying to talk about what I feel is the role of feminism in America today. I've linked and quoted an article that I feel makes some very strong points, and I'm trying to engage in conversation with people that seem very hostile to the very idea of feminism existing today.


Of course you are, sunshine.

Car_Ramrod: Victim card? I was making fun of you, you farking idiot.


www.reactiongifs.com

Check

Car_Ramrod: And for not giving a fark, you seem to be posting quite a bit.


So, "gotcha"?  I think you misunderstand me.  I give a f*ck about the "topic" to the degree it deserves.  It's your endless posture of "see how calm and straightforward I am" smug horsehs*it that I don't give a f*ck about.  Not should I.  You spout endless rehashed dime store bogeyman bullsh*t and act like you're trying to change the world and your pure intent is unquestionable because you are not a woman.  But at the end of the day, it's just devise rhetoric with a template more shopworn that a greasy rag.  And you expected nothing other than your reedy opprobrium to degenerate into a snotty remark exchange once you found a suitable sucker.  Neither did I.  You just f*cked up the last bit.   :  )  Have fun shtotmin' da castle!  You're a posturing prat and you can't blame that one me because I noticed.
 
2013-04-03 03:34:15 PM
Nobody wants equality; everyone wants advantage.
The only time you hear anyone talk about equality is when they themselves don't feel that they have advantage.

You wanna knock me down and be on top? Fine. I can understand and respect that. Just be up front about it, and don't hide behind some bullshiat "social justice" movement.
You care about true equality about as much as I do.
 
2013-04-03 03:37:11 PM

Slam1263: How ageist of you.


The Greatest Generation is dying off, and gays are getting civil rights. People get more greedy and inflexible as they age, news at 11. Consider this my big shrug.

Quinsisdos: There is a difference between "a few nut jobs" and a determined group of people who actually manage to have a negative effect on society.

I'm sorry, but as long as the more moderate feminists continue to fail to call out and remove the more radical members of their movement, especially transphobic radfems like Cathy Brennan, I will not call myself a part of it. I'm tired of NAFALT.


My impression is that there no longer is a "feminist" movement, but rather a number of competing movements and ideologies all competing to call themselves "feminism". Even back in the beginning, that was true, but now more than ever they're splintered all over the map and trying to co-opt a powerful name. It's hard to call someone out when you're not even sure that they're speaking the same language as you, but I do see pretty epic battles in everything from online forums to academic papers regarding what Feminism is and isn't.

Crazy misandrists have insulated themselves from the rest of the world as much as any echo chamber, and I seriously think that the media focuses on them as the most lurid, tabloid-worthy examples, rather than showing the wide range of competing ideas. Doubly so for the Daily Fail, which is basically a tool of oppression and exploitation of anyone and everyone but wealthy non-celebrities. They do exist, and you will run into them if you're involved in social justice no matter how hard Thaetetus pretends they've never existed, but they're still just one portion. Tribalism is just rampant everywhere in social discourse these days.

Maybe the time has come to get rid of the word. Can't we go back to being humanists rather than continually redefining feminism? This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.
 
2013-04-03 03:41:33 PM

foxyshadis: Crazy misandrists have insulated themselves from the rest of the world as much as any echo chamber, and I seriously think that the media focuses on them as the most lurid, tabloid-worthy examples, rather than showing the wide range of competing ideas.


That's because people like lurid and what people like can move money around if you cater to them.  Education is antithetical to that.
 
2013-04-03 03:43:42 PM

WhippingBoy: Car_Ramrod: I'm here trying to talk about what I feel is the role of feminism in America today. I've linked and quoted an article that I feel makes some very strong points, and I'm trying to engage in conversation with people that seem very hostile to the very idea of feminism existing today.

Maybe you should try talking to people in a non-condescending manner and consider the fact that most of us Neanderthals who are still living in the dark ages haven't been indoctrinated with years of third-wave feminist dogma. You can't use the same conversation style with us retards as you do in your gender studies class. You seem very badly to want us to change, but you're not quite smart enough to understand that you can't get people to change by belittling their experiences or mocking everything they say.


I must disagree with the idea I've been condescending. I have not once belittled anyone's experiences. I've repeatedly said that feminism doesn't think that the lives of white males are perfect, nor that the inherent biases in society affect all men (or women for that matter) equally. I've also tried to put forth the idea that feminism doesn't fault every male for these biases. All I've said is that these biases exist, and statistically, the average man has an advantage the average woman does not have. Or, to be more accurate, I suppose, the average man does not have the societal obstacles that the average woman has. I've ALSO repeatedly said that some of the goals of feminism are to reduce the biases that happen to favor women over men (like domestic violence, child custody, physically demanding jobs, etc). This SHOULD show why feminism is a good thing for both genders. Somehow, it just gets laughed at or dismissed.

Meanwhile my points have been called bullshiat with no supporting argument as to why, you claim I'm indoctrinated, and that I must've been involved in gender studies classes, that I'm stupid and condescending. I'm trying to be as level headed as possible as I've been in these discussions many times before, and the default setting for most of those I debate against is anger about feminism even existing, and feel that they're being personally attacked. It's frustrating.

Tell me, how can I be less condescending? Who have I mocked?
 
2013-04-03 03:47:46 PM

WhippingBoy: Nobody wants equality; everyone wants advantage.
The only time you hear anyone talk about equality is when they themselves don't feel that they have advantage.

You wanna knock me down and be on top? Fine. I can understand and respect that. Just be up front about it, and don't hide behind some bullshiat "social justice" movement.
You care about true equality about as much as I do.


I'm a straight white male with an upper-middle class background. I'm the poster boy for privilege in America. How is wanting equality for everyone going to knock anyone down to put me "on top"?

Granting equality doesn't mean making other people's lives worse. I'm curious why you think it does.
 
2013-04-03 03:47:53 PM

foxyshadis: Maybe the time has come to get rid of the word. Can't we go back to being humanists rather than continually redefining feminism? This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.


If you had read the bullshiat article he keeps posting you would know that "humanist" supposedly trivializes the living hell we force on our women. It also goes on to say that the feminists have our best interests in mind anyway. There is no need to fight specifically for the rights of all people, because all problems are because of TEH PATRIARCHY!
 
2013-04-03 03:49:27 PM

Car_Ramrod: Somehow, it just gets laughed at or dismissed.


That's only because it is bullshiat.
 
2013-04-03 03:56:29 PM

bunner: Car_Ramrod: Victim card? I was making fun of you, you farking idiot.

Check


I posted a gif of the wonderful Jennifer Lawrence in response to someone doing a shiatty job of making fun of me, and that's a minus against me? That's fun.

bunner: Car_Ramrod: And for not giving a fark, you seem to be posting quite a bit.

So, "gotcha"?


Wut?

I think you misunderstand me.  I give a f*ck about the "topic" to the degree it deserves.  It's your endless posture of "see how calm and straightforward I am" smug horsehs*it that I don't give a f*ck about.  Not should I.

I'm sorry for trying to have a reasonable conversation about this. I didn't realize that was a negative.

You spout endless rehashed dime store bogeyman bullsh*t and act like you're trying to change the world and your pure intent is unquestionable because you are not a woman.

If it's such basic bullshiat, why don't you refute it? It should be so easy to counter if it's dime store bullshiat. And am I not allowed to be a feminist because I'm a man? Should I not want the lives of my female friends (as well as females in general) to be improved? I'm not sure why you think my intent is impure.

But at the end of the day, it's just devise rhetoric with a template more shopworn that a greasy rag.

What exactly about what I've said is divisive? Assuming that's the word you meant. I've shown time and time again why feminism has goals that benefits both genders.

And you expected nothing other than your reedy opprobrium to degenerate into a snotty remark exchange once you found a suitable sucker.  Neither did I.  You just f*cked up the last bit.   :  )  Have fun shtotmin' da castle!  You're a posturing prat and you can't blame that one me because I noticed.

How am I a posturing prat? You keep on writing these paragraphs full of sound and fury, but what point are you trying to make? The only point I've seen you actually attempt is that feminism accomplished its goals long ago and is useless today. But when I tried to discuss that point, you evaded and threw down more folksy sayings and vague insults. I don't get it, man. What are you so angry about? What is the point you're trying to make? What exactly have I said that is so horrible?
 
2013-04-03 03:57:17 PM
Pure poetry, bunner.

Do you have a newsletter?  I will subscribe to it.
 
2013-04-03 03:58:05 PM

umad: Car_Ramrod: Somehow, it just gets laughed at or dismissed.

That's only because it is bullshiat.


Which part and why? How is it this hard to get some actual arguments out of you? Did you read the list of things that supposedly favors women that feminism is against? What did you think of it?
 
2013-04-03 04:03:11 PM

Dion Fortune: Pure poetry, bunner.

Do you have a newsletter?  I will subscribe to it.


Heh.. thanks.  Actually, I am presently working as a writer but I'm being paid to make fictional characters interesting.  No room for a newsletter.  I blame the patriarchy.
 
2013-04-03 04:07:24 PM

foxyshadis: Maybe the time has come to get rid of the word. Can't we go back to being humanists rather than continually redefining feminism? This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.


The same reason there are advocacy groups for thousands of different groups of people, whether they be gender specific, race specific, vocation specific, age specific, medical diagnosis specific, etc. Eliminating everything and instituting a humanist approach sounds awesome, but it ignores the fact that not everyone goes through life with the same challenges. Humanism is a good thing, and people should strive to make everyone's life better, but to ignore the need for specific advocacy is to ignore inequality. You don't need to eliminate humanism to value feminism.
 
2013-04-03 04:08:57 PM

Car_Ramrod: umad: Car_Ramrod: Somehow, it just gets laughed at or dismissed.

That's only because it is bullshiat.

Which part and why? How is it this hard to get some actual arguments out of you? Did you read the list of things that supposedly favors women that feminism is against? What did you think of it?


What the fark did you think I thought of it. I thought it was 100% bullshiat. If the feminists were so concerned with the rights of men then you would have been able to post more than a single source saying so. You've been telling us that we aren't supposed to generalize about feminism based on the actions of a few individual misandrists, but we're supposed to let this one woman speak for all of feminism? Why is she an authority but the average man-hater isn't?

Even if she speaks the truth, how about a citation or two where some feminists are actually fighting for these rights for men? Show me a story where they protested the treatment of men in family court. Talk is cheap. You can make claims all day but they are worthless if you don't have proof to back them up, and you don't.
 
2013-04-03 04:12:01 PM

umad: foxyshadis: Maybe the time has come to get rid of the word. Can't we go back to being humanists rather than continually redefining feminism? This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.

If you had read the bullshiat article he keeps posting you would know that "humanist" supposedly trivializes the living hell we force on our women. It also goes on to say that the feminists have our best interests in mind anyway. There is no need to fight specifically for the rights of all people, because all problems are because of TEH PATRIARCHY!


The article basically said what I'd expect from Jezebel; misandry, whining, attention whoring, and total narcissism. The inability to gaze outside of their own navel and consider any plights but their own is a common theme there.

Fark it, call me when a man can wear a dress down the street and not get beaten up or catcalled, or take a job as a nail artist and want to be taken seriously as a straight man, and we'll discuss how women are uniquely oppressed.

/Luckily, Gawker gets to take the MRA and misogynist whiny attention whores. Must be nice to play both sides of the coin and laugh all the way to the bank.
 
2013-04-03 04:12:20 PM
www.seriouscat.com
Chicks dig arrogant apologists.
 
2013-04-03 04:16:20 PM

Car_Ramrod: WhippingBoy: Car_Ramrod: I'm here trying to talk about what I feel is the role of feminism in America today. I've linked and quoted an article that I feel makes some very strong points, and I'm trying to engage in conversation with people that seem very hostile to the very idea of feminism existing today.

Maybe you should try talking to people in a non-condescending manner and consider the fact that most of us Neanderthals who are still living in the dark ages haven't been indoctrinated with years of third-wave feminist dogma. You can't use the same conversation style with us retards as you do in your gender studies class. You seem very badly to want us to change, but you're not quite smart enough to understand that you can't get people to change by belittling their experiences or mocking everything they say.

I must disagree with the idea I've been condescending. I have not once belittled anyone's experiences. I've repeatedly said that feminism doesn't think that the lives of white males are perfect, nor that the inherent biases in society affect all men (or women for that matter) equally. I've also tried to put forth the idea that feminism doesn't fault every male for these biases. All I've said is that these biases exist, and statistically, the average man has an advantage the average woman does not have. Or, to be more accurate, I suppose, the average man does not have the societal obstacles that the average woman has. I've ALSO repeatedly said that some of the goals of feminism are to reduce the biases that happen to favor women over men (like domestic violence, child custody, physically demanding jobs, etc). This SHOULD show why feminism is a good thing for both genders. Somehow, it just gets laughed at or dismissed.

Meanwhile my points have been called bullshiat with no supporting argument as to why, you claim I'm indoctrinated, and that I must've been involved in gender studies classes, that I'm stupid and condescending. I'm trying to be as level headed as ...


The people you're trying to reach don't feel that they've had any undue advantages or lack of societal obstacles. Or at least they feel that the advantages that they've encountered are balanced by different advantages given to other people that they themselves did not receive. So you point out some very real examples of these perceived advantages. And then "we" point out some very real examples of what we perceive to be (balancing) disadvantages. Rather than acknowledging these disadvantages, they're summarily and condescendingly discounted (basically any man who dares to complain about anything is lumped into the dreaded "MRA" crowd, and his concerns are only worthy of mockery). I've struggled, sweated, bled and sacrificed for (almost) all of the "advantages" I have in my life. The message I'm getting is that that's "no big deal" because everything must have been so easy for me. If you can't see how that's condescending, I don't know what to say.

Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on *you* personally. It's just that you're spouting the same tired, bigoted dogma that I've heard a 1000 times before.
 
2013-04-03 04:17:21 PM

Car_Ramrod: foxyshadis: Maybe the time has come to get rid of the word. Can't we go back to being humanists rather than continually redefining feminism? This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.

The same reason there are advocacy groups for thousands of different groups of people, whether they be gender specific, race specific, vocation specific, age specific, medical diagnosis specific, etc. Eliminating everything and instituting a humanist approach sounds awesome, but it ignores the fact that not everyone goes through life with the same challenges. Humanism is a good thing, and people should strive to make everyone's life better, but to ignore the need for specific advocacy is to ignore inequality. You don't need to eliminate humanism to value feminism.


But the point is that feminism is meaningless, because there is no one feminism. There are tens of thousands of different feminisms, from feminists who believe their job is well done to feminists who believe men are evil and sex is rape, and everything in between. It's no longer a thing, it's just an empty word that means whatever anyone wants it to mean, and due to the lack of any definition, there's no possible way to have a discussion about it. 90% of the discussion is always about what it is, not useful things like steps to move forward, or applicability to modern life, and so on.

Why even bother using the word, in that case? Why not pick another label to ascribe your actual beliefs, instead of using a label that is a huge umbrella that covers both your actual beliefs and beliefs you find abhorrent?
 
2013-04-03 04:17:52 PM

foxyshadis: The article basically said what I'd expect from Jezebel; misandry, whining, attention whoring, and total narcissism. The inability to gaze outside of their own navel and consider any plights but their own is a common theme there.


And I'm sort of fine with that as long they quit trying to use my navel.

foxyshadis: Must be nice to play both sides of the coin and laugh all the way to the bank.


That is the precise business plan template that every single useful social movement has been co-opted by since Judas sold Jesus.
 
2013-04-03 04:24:42 PM
foxyshadis:
Why even bother using the word, in that case? Why not pick another label to ascribe your actual beliefs, instead of using a label that is a huge umbrella that covers both your actual beliefs and beliefs you find abhorrent?

Ask Christians and their myriad of denominations with differing beliefs under one umbrella.  Ask conservatives or liberals or Muslims.  Ask atheists.  Umbrella groups with differing systems where, even if they don't agree on everything and some of it is really farked up, they're stronger in large numbers.

Meanwhile, stop derailing the issue with semantic diversions about the name and look again at the issues.  Ramrod's listed several times issues that every put upon white dude in this thread has pulled up - depression, the draft, children, the doofus syndrome, getting killed for Uncle Sam, and every issue is something that feminism is trying to work on, to the benefit of men as well.

What is the goddamn farking problem?

At this point, it's rhetorical.

Forget it, Car_Ramrod.  It's Chinatown.
 
2013-04-03 04:26:13 PM

WhippingBoy: Rather than acknowledging these disadvantages, they're summarily and condescendingly discounted (basically any man who dares to complain about anything is lumped into the dreaded "MRA" crowd, and his concerns are only worthy of mockery).


Have I done that?

I've struggled, sweated, bled and sacrificed for (almost) all of the "advantages" I have in my life.

Have I said otherwise? At least you recognize there are advantages you've gained through happenstance.

The message I'm getting is that that's "no big deal" because everything must have been so easy for me. If you can't see how that's condescending, I don't know what to say.

Have I said that?

Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on *you* personally. It's just that you're spouting the same tired, bigoted dogma that I've heard a 1000 times before.

It just seems everyone in this thread is arguing over what they imagine my argument to be, instead of what I've actually said, which I can't imagine could be described as "bigoted". And it's endlessly frustrating.
 
2013-04-03 04:27:43 PM

KhamanV: What is the goddamn farking problem?


The problem is that all of those suppositions, assertions and nebulous assurances are just that.  And what if they weren't?
 
2013-04-03 04:32:59 PM

KhamanV: and every issue is something that feminism is trying to work on, to the benefit of men as well.


For the 100th time, citation needed. Show me where feminists are actually working on these issues rather than simply giving them lip service. Now put up or shut the fark up.
 
2013-04-03 04:49:41 PM
I'm still waiting on that citation. Come on Ramrod and Khaman! You both talk such a big game about feminists fighting for men's rights. Surely you both have countless examples to prove your point.

I know the proof will never come, which is why this is hilarious:

Car_Ramrod: "Gotcha horseshiat"? "Support that statement minutiae"? Don't hide your inability to answer a simple question behind Palin-esque empty phrases. "Feminists completed their stated goals long ago." "What goals and when?" "THAT'S A GOTCHA QUESTION!" How about you don't make statements you can't support? That's part of building a successful argument and having an actual discussion.

 
2013-04-03 05:06:45 PM

KhamanV: Ask Christians and their myriad of denominations with differing beliefs under one umbrella.  Ask conservatives or liberals or Muslims.  Ask atheists.  Umbrella groups with differing systems where, even if they don't agree on everything and some of it is really farked up, they're stronger in large numbers.

Meanwhile, stop derailing the issue with semantic diversions about the name and look again at the issues.  Ramrod's listed several times issues that every put upon white dude in this thread has pulled up - depression, the draft, children, the doofus syndrome, getting killed for Uncle Sam, and every issue is something that feminism is trying to work on, to the benefit of men as well.

What is the goddamn farking problem?

At this point, it's rhetorical.

Forget it, Car_Ramrod.  It's Chinatown.


The main problem is that Car_Ramrod keeps vocally insisting that his view of feminism is the One True Feminism, and that using a term like humanism to describe the bettering of all humanity is wrong, while feminism obviously makes more sense. In bizarro land. The splintering of Feminism has caused as much "You're not helping" problems as the Westboro Baptist Church and Ted Haggard, to use your own analogy; maybe you should think twice about whether you really want to be associated and co-opted by the most extreme fringe elements.

As long as Car_Ramrod wants to argue about the true meaning of feminism and why it must be called feminism and not anything else, because no one else has problems that feminism can't fix, I'll push back.

Now as for you, can you explain how feminism is trying to work on any problems? Individuals advocate, charities advocate, vague ideals do not advocate. Stop mixing them up. Individuals do good work both under the feminism banner and outside of it.
 
2013-04-03 05:18:11 PM
I'm gonna blow through the BS for a moment and get down to cases, sine that seems to be the point.

Feminism as sold and packaged will amount to something other than a codified piss an moan fest precisely one hour after:

Women divest themselves of the allegedly inalienable and inarguable privilege - regardless of promises spoken, agreements made, understandings reached or actions asserted under any circumstances, personal, interpersonal, business, political, economic or otherwise, regardless of the size of the steaming turd they left in the pool or the Dresdenesque rubble left in the wake of their lack of need to be responsible for their own words or deeds - of being allowed to shrug, stare at their feet and say "whatever.  I changed my mind.", and skate away to the magic land of impunity by gender.

Then.  Period.  Not until.  No woman on earth will be taken at her word or be until they shred their pussy pass.  THAT, oh Lochinvar, is the real world.  And if you don't believe me, ask a woman .  Women are WAY more sick of the sh*t women pull than we'll ever be.
 
2013-04-03 05:43:49 PM
Such discrimination! They aren't "three white men", they are three women who just happen to lack in the aesthetic department! Not every woman has a hairless face or a pretty symmetrical form! Besides, wearing a suit isn't just for men!
 
2013-04-03 05:44:22 PM
 
2013-04-03 06:22:40 PM

foxyshadis: Crazy misandrists have insulated themselves from the rest of the world as much as any echo chamber, and I seriously think that the media focuses on them as the most lurid, tabloid-worthy examples, rather than showing the wide range of competing ideas. Doubly so for the Daily Fail, which is basically a tool of oppression and exploitation of anyone and everyone but wealthy non-celebrities. They do exist, and you will run into them if you're involved in social justice no matter how hard Thaetetus pretends they've never existed, but they're still just one portion. Tribalism is just rampant everywhere in social discourse these days.


The irony? That long Erin Pizzey quote comes from a piece written for...The Daily Fail. I quoted it off someone's blog because I didn't want to give the Fail any more page hits.

It was a sad day when I realised GIFT applied to social activists too.
 
2013-04-03 07:05:28 PM
Don't you know? Men can have vaginas too apparently!

Check your privilege, cis scum!
 
2013-04-04 03:59:35 AM

foxyshadis: This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.


Yeah no, let's NOT recommend people attempt to emulate the attitude of a bunch of rich white men who somehow decided that although they were totally in love with "humans" that it was still apparent that anyone not white or male or owning land what a bit naff.  Not even worthy of voting in their lovely land of "freedom".  Their polemics are pretty, it's just a shame they usually failed to walk the walk.  The Bill of Rights is a humanist document but women still couldn't vote, and (mainly black) people were still held as slaves.

And please don't try and make the word "humanism" even LESS meaningful than it already is.  It currently has about 10 meanings, depending on the country and period of history you're talking about.  Let it have some peace and quiet.
 
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