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(Adweek)   Craft beer makers vow to fight MillerCoors and AB InBev's attempts to market faux craft brew brands, offer snobbiest beer snob comment ever: "We are selling community, and they are selling liquid"   (adweek.com) divider line 131
    More: Obvious, InBev, MillerCoors, Busch Beer, total sales, Brewers Association, swords, SABMiller, Samuel Adams  
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1679 clicks; posted to Business » on 03 Apr 2013 at 7:33 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-03 01:50:11 AM
How is this snobby?  Coors is like q-tips. Craft beer is like comic books.  The only similarity is wood pulp.
 
2013-04-03 02:05:00 AM
Oh lordy.  Here we go.

They sell beer.  You sell beer.  When I buy beer, I am not buying community, I am not buying social advancement, I am not buying self-worth.  I am buying beer.  If I like your beer better, great.  If I like their beer better, sucks to be you.  I like fat, malty ales, which means I drink beers from smaller breweries or the local brewhouse.  If, however, I preferred light pilsener-style American lagers, Budweiser and PBR are fine examples of the style.

Unless you are going to argue that the American lager is not a "real" beer style, STFU.
 
2013-04-03 02:29:03 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh lordy.  Here we go.

They sell beer.  You sell beer.  When I buy beer, I am not buying community, I am not buying social advancement, I am not buying self-worth.  I am buying beer.


Word.
 
2013-04-03 02:36:33 AM
Discerning palates will know what they are buying and the whole facade will crumble.
 
2013-04-03 07:37:26 AM
I just read the label, but I'm old skool like that.
 
2013-04-03 07:38:51 AM
Yeah, I am all about the tasty, awesome craft beers I've had in the last few years.  Can't stand your standard piss-tasting domestics.  But even beer snobby as I am, I thought that comment was HORRIBLY pretentious.
 
2013-04-03 07:39:00 AM
You can't drink community.  Unless you kill all the people in the community and turn them into pulp.

I think that might be illegal, though.
 
2013-04-03 07:39:35 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: If, however, I preferred light pilsener-style American lagers, Budweiser and PBR are fine examples of the style.

Unless you are going to argue that the American lager is not a "real" beer style, STFU.


The type of people who consider themselves to be "beer lovers" will have branched out from American light beers. An even greater majority these days didn't start on the light beers in the first place... there have been too many other options available in the last decade. Either way,  very few would return after that.

I'm not saying it isn't "real" beer. I'm just saying it's best suited for two occasions:

1) Underage high-school drinking
2) A lifetime of continued full-case-at-once drinking for someone who started drinking it while in high school.

/snob
 
2013-04-03 07:44:18 AM
I am not a beer snob, but I am a new borderline alcoholic.

Here is what I have noticed;  Shock top and Blue moon are bad.  Third shift is HOOOORRRRRIIIIBBBBLLLEEE.  Maybe they dont really NEED labeling to  know those beers are not "craft" beer.
 
2013-04-03 07:44:37 AM
How I wish I could return to Portland, to live the dream of the '90s and drink McMenamins Terminator Stout.
 
2013-04-03 07:46:05 AM
Let the market decide. I'd be perfectly happy if BudMilCoors put out actual craft beer. But, they won't. They'll put out something that has slightly more flavor than the crap they already make. Slightly more flavor (I.e., any flavor at all).

I sometimes have to pinch myself at how good beer drinkers have it in the US right now, the friggin' choice is unprecedented - even in a craphole little town in the midwest where I live you can get all sorts of good stuff at the grocery store, much less a liquor store.

This is where Canad is way behind. The old chestnut that American beer is watery crap is very dated. Try getting decent microbrew in those awful government holes where they sell beer. Horribly overpriced elk piss.
 
2013-04-03 07:46:33 AM
Meh.  Local craft brews are usually a lot of fun and what I choose, but if I'm somewhere where they only have the standard Bud, Coors, Miller (often seen at banquets, sporting evente, etc) a Blue Moon ain't half bad.

There's plenty of market for everyone.  Deal with it.
 
2013-04-03 07:49:23 AM
Some people used to take pride in buying local.

Used to.
 
2013-04-03 07:49:46 AM
I am no beer snob, but Blue Moon is shiatty beer. Marketing it as a "craft beer" is almost fraud.
 
2013-04-03 07:53:18 AM
Sometimes you don't want to pay $10 per glass for a craft brew. Sometimes you just want something to drink
 
2013-04-03 07:54:14 AM

puffy999: Some people used to take pride in buying local.

Used to.


I live in an area that is practically flooded by craft brewing.  Even the chain restaurants around here have been carrying the locals.  It is a great time to be a fan of beer.
 
2013-04-03 07:54:36 AM
I am a beer snob and proud of it. However, there are different beers for different events.

After work, the local brewpub.

At home after dinner, a seasonal craft brew.

Crawfish boil or a BBQ with friends, homebrew.

Fishing with the other dudes, a Bud light is just fine.
 
2013-04-03 07:59:31 AM

puffy999: Some people used to take pride in buying local.

Used to.


No they didn't. That was back when local was all you had. Anything that came from outside the region was more expensive. The minute it became fast and cheap to buy something mass produced from far away, local went right down the sh*tter.

As pretentious as the whole "community" statement was, it's shrewd marketing (Note the website is called "Adweek."). Craft brewers target people's misty-eyed nostalgia for a small town that never existed. Even 25 year olds are susceptible to it, even though they've never once lived in a community like that. Crafter brewers also market on the feeling that buying craft beer makes you smarter, more exclusive and exacting than the average Bud-heavy drinker. Craft beer also wants to be like wine, and have all the prestige and credibility (Read: horsesh*t) of a vinter, hence the many judging competitions and medals they'll shower each other with.

One reason I like buying local craft beer, other than the taste and variety, is because it's something unique to the area. It is exclusive because the brewer is literally too small to ship most other places. It also gives me something to share with someone who isn't from here. So there are definitely positives to craft beer's marketing approach. That doesn't mean it's not horsesh*t though. Like Benevolent Misanthrope pointed out, they're just selling beer.
 
2013-04-03 08:01:44 AM

alywa: There's plenty of market for everyone


Overall, sure. In your average store? No.

Microbrewers have a right to be pissed, because stores have limited shelf space, and when InBev comes calling it's tough to say "you know what? I've reserved that space for a local brewer." They can throw discounts at a purchaser and find all sorts of ways to win over a retailer, particularly a national chain or a very small store. Heck, they can practically GIVE away their craft beers if they know that it's taking up a rack of microbrewery competitors and that the store is always in full supply of Budweiser.

Most major supermarkets go by who pays the bills, and carry some local and/or microbrew beers but not necessarily a wide variety of their products (a local chain store carries one or two varieties of at least five various microbreweries, but ONLY the varieties with the most popularity). Convenience stores are a joke, unless you find one that actually has an interest in selling beer (one locally has at least one hundred varieties of microbrews, and that place is a godsend).
And when you start to see all of these "craft beers" from major brewers, and if you see even more of them (as you will) pushing for space in limited markets, good beer will be pushed off the shelf in favor of slick marketing and/or a few more pennies of profit and/or the best bulk distribution deal.

There are reasons why some people, even some politicians, have pushed back against monopolization of our business interests. Sadly, give the major manufacturers a couple decades of unchecked aggression, and they will likely be able to bury many upstart microbreweries. Not because they make a better product, but because they're big enough to take small losses in order to snuff out the competition. They are, literally, "too big to fail" in a corporate sense.
 
2013-04-03 08:05:07 AM

puffy999: There are reasons why some people, even some politicians, have pushed back against monopolization of our business interests. Sadly, give the major manufacturers a couple decades of unchecked aggression, and they will likely be able to bury many upstart microbreweries. Not because they make a better product, but because they're big enough to take small losses in order to snuff out the competition. They are, literally, "too big to fail" in a corporate sense.


I never have problems finding great beers in the stores here.. and this is PA, one of the worst alchohol states in the country.
 
2013-04-03 08:05:11 AM

puffy999: alywa: There's plenty of market for everyone

Overall, sure. In your average store? No.

Microbrewers have a right to be pissed, because stores have limited shelf space, and when InBev comes calling it's tough to say "you know what? I've reserved that space for a local brewer." They can throw discounts at a purchaser and find all sorts of ways to win over a retailer, particularly a national chain or a very small store. Heck, they can practically GIVE away their craft beers if they know that it's taking up a rack of microbrewery competitors and that the store is always in full supply of Budweiser.

Most major supermarkets go by who pays the bills, and carry some local and/or microbrew beers but not necessarily a wide variety of their products (a local chain store carries one or two varieties of at least five various microbreweries, but ONLY the varieties with the most popularity). Convenience stores are a joke, unless you find one that actually has an interest in selling beer (one locally has at least one hundred varieties of microbrews, and that place is a godsend).
And when you start to see all of these "craft beers" from major brewers, and if you see even more of them (as you will) pushing for space in limited markets, good beer will be pushed off the shelf in favor of slick marketing and/or a few more pennies of profit and/or the best bulk distribution deal.

There are reasons why some people, even some politicians, have pushed back against monopolization of our business interests. Sadly, give the major manufacturers a couple decades of unchecked aggression, and they will likely be able to bury many upstart microbreweries. Not because they make a better product, but because they're big enough to take small losses in order to snuff out the competition. They are, literally, "too big to fail" in a corporate sense.


We have independent package liquor stores in Omaha which carry nothing but craft beer. So craft beer does have a response to the macrobrews trying to force them off the shelf.
 
2013-04-03 08:06:20 AM

verbaltoxin: No they didn't.


For crap like clothes, you're probably right.

For food? That nostalgia still exists in many places.
 
2013-04-03 08:07:32 AM
Yes, populated areas have things.
 
2013-04-03 08:08:31 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh lordy.  Here we go.

They sell beer.  You sell beer.  When I buy beer, I am not buying community, I am not buying social advancement, I am not buying self-worth.  I am buying beer.  If I like your beer better, great.  If I like their beer better, sucks to be you.  I like fat, malty ales, which means I drink beers from smaller breweries or the local brewhouse.  If, however, I preferred light pilsener-style American lagers, Budweiser and PBR are fine examples of the style.

Unless you are going to argue that the American lager is not a "real" beer style, STFU.


Word. Buy what you like. It was ironic hearing the Sam Adams guy saying how he realized how hard it was for the big brewers to make such a consistent light bodied beer day after day.

These guys do have half a point though. I like buying small brews as the tastes are eratic and the small guys try new things. I may not mind buying a bud craft beer but id like to know it was made by bud. I do not like being tricked.
 
2013-04-03 08:10:43 AM

nocturnal001: Word. Buy what you like. It was ironic hearing the Sam Adams guy saying how he realized how hard it was for the big brewers to make such a consistent light bodied beer day after day.


What's odd is knowing someone who was so in-tune with the flavor of Bud Light that he was able to identify a bad keg on one sip from a beer at dinner once.

I wasn't sure whether to marvel at him, or pity him.
 
2013-04-03 08:13:19 AM

Nabb1: I am no beer snob, but Blue Moon is shiatty beer. Marketing it as a "craft beer" is almost fraud.


FTFY
 
2013-04-03 08:16:15 AM
nocturnal001:  I may not mind buying a bud craft beer but id like to know it was made by bud. I do not like being tricked.

Their marketing departments aren't stupid.  They realize that most people know Bud is shiatty, and will figure anything made by Bud and labelled "craft" will be equally shiatty, so that any "craft" brand will HAVE to be distanced from the main brand.  I think they've got a chance- with their distribution networks all they have to do is capture a small part of the Bud market who feels like being swanky occasionally and they'll profit.
 
2013-04-03 08:17:15 AM

puffy999: nocturnal001: Word. Buy what you like. It was ironic hearing the Sam Adams guy saying how he realized how hard it was for the big brewers to make such a consistent light bodied beer day after day.

What's odd is knowing someone who was so in-tune with the flavor of Bud Light that he was able to identify a bad keg on one sip from a beer at dinner once.

I wasn't sure whether to marvel at him, or pity him.


He was in tune with brewing. That's how he knew the keg had gone bad. Brewing isn't some mysterious dark art.
 
2013-04-03 08:19:40 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: They sell beer.  You sell beer.  When I buy beer, I am not buying community, I am not buying social advancement, I am not buying self-worth.  I am buying beer.  If I like your beer better, great.  If I like their beer better, sucks to be you.  I like fat, malty ales, which means I drink beers from smaller breweries or the local brewhouse.  If, however, I preferred light pilsener-style American lagers, Budweiser and PBR are fine examples of the style.


I enjoy all types of beer.  The issue I have with large breweries in the craft space is that they don't follow the same conventions as the small brewers, and therefore when I unknowingly pick up a craft brew from Miller or SAB, it invariably is not what I expected or wanted.

For example,  Goose Island IPA is not what people expect when they pick up a six pack of craft IPA. The reason it's not the same is because the large breweries demand a very low cost-of-goods-sold (COGS), where the small brewers will just raise prices in line with COGS.  So IPAs from large breweries are underhopped compared to IPAs from small brewers.

I love trying new beers.  Over half of the beer I buy is a new brand to me.  Before the large brewers got into the craft brewing game, I could just go pick up whatever looked like it might taste good based on the brewer and variety.   I definitely read labels now.

That doesn't mean I don't buy large crafts.  I got a six of Kona a few weeks ago.  It didn't disappoint because it didn't claim to be in an established craft category where expectations are already set.
 
2013-04-03 08:20:37 AM
I think he's right. Unless I have a specific hankering for something I try to make my go-to beer something that's brewed in town. I know people who work at three of the local breweries, and I figure every time I buy a beer it's a vote for keeping that beer on tap, keeping those breweries open, and keeping those people working.

This is my current go-to choice: http://www.mustlovebeer.com/albums/photo/view/album_id/141/photo_id/1 0 531
 
2013-04-03 08:23:39 AM

RevCarter: I think he's right. Unless I have a specific hankering for something I try to make my go-to beer something that's brewed in town. I know people who work at three of the local breweries, and I figure every time I buy a beer it's a vote for keeping that beer on tap, keeping those breweries open, and keeping those people working.

This is my current go-to choice: http://www.mustlovebeer.com/albums/photo/view/album_id/141/photo_id/1 0 531


Have you tried any of the Heavy Seas brews?  They're pretty local for you, and they aren't bad.
 
2013-04-03 08:23:51 AM

xanadian: You can't drink community.  Unless you kill all the people in the community and turn them into pulp.

I think that might be illegal, though.


static2.businessinsider.com

Say what?
 
2013-04-03 08:23:57 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh lordy.  Here we go.

They sell beer.  You sell beer.  When I buy beer, I am not buying community, I am not buying social advancement, I am not buying self-worth.  I am buying beer.  If I like your beer better, great.  If I like their beer better, sucks to be you.  I like fat, malty ales, which means I drink beers from smaller breweries or the local brewhouse.  If, however, I preferred light pilsener-style American lagers, Budweiser and PBR are fine examples of the style.

Unless you are going to argue that the American lager is not a "real" beer style, STFU.


The argument is how InBev has changed the formulas for some of the great brands they've taken over. (and subsequently ruined them)

 Do you remember drinking Beck's?  Have you tried it lately?  Pick up a six-pack and get back to us when you do.
 
2013-04-03 08:29:08 AM
He's right from the perspective that it's his marketing to sell community.  While you may poo-poo that idea and say "well, I just buy what I like", that doesn't mean that there isn't a customer who doesn't choose based on buying fuzzy things like community just like it doesn't mean that there isn't a customer buying based purely on price.  I don't think people actually like Thunderbird, but it survives because of its price.

If he can push the idea to his target market that his beer is superior because you're buying more than just beer then he wins.  Whole Foods has proven you can do this with commodities like produce so it should be even easier to do this with branded products.   It's a good strategy for upper-middle class consumers.
 
2013-04-03 08:31:00 AM

Jerry Westerby: RevCarter: I think he's right. Unless I have a specific hankering for something I try to make my go-to beer something that's brewed in town. I know people who work at three of the local breweries, and I figure every time I buy a beer it's a vote for keeping that beer on tap, keeping those breweries open, and keeping those people working.

This is my current go-to choice: http://www.mustlovebeer.com/albums/photo/view/album_id/141/photo_id/1 0 531

Have you tried any of the Heavy Seas brews?  They're pretty local for you, and they aren't bad.


Yea, I like several of their offerings, but Public Works Ale (the makers of Red Cent) just opened a few months ago, and I'm doing my best to make sure they stay open - one beer at a time.
 
2013-04-03 08:33:20 AM
People who dismiss the idea of selling things like "community" are basically saying they understand nothing about the history of effective marketing. Everyone likes to think they're the independent minded rebel who buys products based on purely on the measure of their quality, when the truth is we are all, each and every one of us, making purchases on a daily basis because those products have been marketed to us in a way that pushes emotional buttons in us so far below the level of our rational minds that we wouldn't even know where to look for them. The major brewers are who they are because they sell a lifestyle, not because they sell a good product. It's awesome that small breweries are making quality products, but if they plan on competing with the billion dollar ad budgets of the big boys based on that one thing alone, they are simply not going to survive. History is littered with superior products that died for want of a way to effectively give consumers that little positive emotional jolt when they bought them.
 
2013-04-03 08:33:50 AM

Jerry Westerby: nocturnal001:  I may not mind buying a bud craft beer but id like to know it was made by bud. I do not like being tricked.

Their marketing departments aren't stupid.  They realize that most people know Bud is shiatty, and will figure anything made by Bud and labelled "craft" will be equally shiatty, so that any "craft" brand will HAVE to be distanced from the main brand.  I think they've got a chance- with their distribution networks all they have to do is capture a small part of the Bud market who feels like being swanky occasionally and they'll profit.


It definitely works. The food brands do it all the time. That Mama Santiagos pasta sauce is made by craft.
 
2013-04-03 08:35:13 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh lordy.  Here we go.

They sell beer.  You sell beer.  When I buy beer, I am not buying community, I am not buying social advancement, I am not buying self-worth.  I am buying beer.  If I like your beer better, great.  If I like their beer better, sucks to be you.  I like fat, malty ales, which means I drink beers from smaller breweries or the local brewhouse.  If, however, I preferred light pilsener-style American lagers, Budweiser and PBR are fine examples of the style.

Unless you are going to argue that the American lager is not a "real" beer style, STFU.


NO YOU CAN'T LIKE WHAT I DON'T LIKE THAT'S NOT OK
 
2013-04-03 08:37:17 AM

verbaltoxin: puffy999: alywa: There's plenty of market for everyone

Overall, sure. In your average store? No.

Microbrewers have a right to be pissed, because stores have limited shelf space, and when InBev comes calling it's tough to say "you know what? I've reserved that space for a local brewer." They can throw discounts at a purchaser and find all sorts of ways to win over a retailer, particularly a national chain or a very small store. Heck, they can practically GIVE away their craft beers if they know that it's taking up a rack of microbrewery competitors and that the store is always in full supply of Budweiser.

Most major supermarkets go by who pays the bills, and carry some local and/or microbrew beers but not necessarily a wide variety of their products (a local chain store carries one or two varieties of at least five various microbreweries, but ONLY the varieties with the most popularity). Convenience stores are a joke, unless you find one that actually has an interest in selling beer (one locally has at least one hundred varieties of microbrews, and that place is a godsend).
And when you start to see all of these "craft beers" from major brewers, and if you see even more of them (as you will) pushing for space in limited markets, good beer will be pushed off the shelf in favor of slick marketing and/or a few more pennies of profit and/or the best bulk distribution deal.

There are reasons why some people, even some politicians, have pushed back against monopolization of our business interests. Sadly, give the major manufacturers a couple decades of unchecked aggression, and they will likely be able to bury many upstart microbreweries. Not because they make a better product, but because they're big enough to take small losses in order to snuff out the competition. They are, literally, "too big to fail" in a corporate sense.

We have independent package liquor stores in Omaha which carry nothing but craft beer. So craft beer does have a response to the macrobrews try ...


yeah, sure. just wait until they pass tougher alcohol laws which just so happen to make it difficult for independent package stores to stay in business. that is the next logical step after winning through unchecked capitalism
 
2013-04-03 08:37:21 AM

Sybarite: People who dismiss the idea of selling things like "community" are basically saying they understand nothing about the history of effective marketing. Everyone likes to think they're the independent minded rebel who buys products based on purely on the measure of their quality, when the truth is we are all, each and every one of us, making purchases on a daily basis because those products have been marketed to us in a way that pushes emotional buttons in us so far below the level of our rational minds that we wouldn't even know where to look for them. The major brewers are who they are because they sell a lifestyle, not because they sell a good product. It's awesome that small breweries are making quality products, but if they plan on competing with the billion dollar ad budgets of the big boys based on that one thing alone, they are simply not going to survive. History is littered with superior products that died for want of a way to effectively give consumers that little positive emotional jolt when they bought them.


I'll say "this".  When marketing is working at its best, the consumer thinks that he or she is choosing products based on rational and correct decisions.
 
2013-04-03 08:44:33 AM
People who think they're immune to marketing are hilarious. We've got your demographic and psychographic segment pegged more than any other.
 
2013-04-03 08:45:21 AM
s3.amazonaws.com

R.I.P. Community
 
2013-04-03 08:45:54 AM

I sound fat: Shock top and Blue moon are bad.


As someone who lives in Switzerland and has easy access to (and a great hankering for) German, Belgian, and Austrian wheat beers, I disagree: Shock Top and Blue Moon aren't great, but they're decent. When I'm in the US and want a reasonably-priced, widely-available wheat beer I usually turn to Blue Moon.

Sure, I can get Chimay White, Stiegl Weisse, Hoegaarden, and other tasty wheat beers at many shops that sell beer, but its rare for restaurants and bars in the US to have such drinks (either on tap or in bottles) but they'll likely have Blue Moon. Blue Moon's also quite a bit cheaper than the good imports, so that's useful when I want a decent beer at a decent price.

/dear $DEITY, I drank so much wheat beer when I was in Austria a few months ago.
 
2013-04-03 08:51:11 AM

heypete: When I'm in the US and want a reasonably-priced, widely-available wheat beer I usually turn to Blue Moon.


both available nationally and light years better than blue moon:

thefullpint.com  aleheads.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-03 08:52:31 AM

Cluckity: People who think they're immune to marketing are hilarious. We've got your demographic and psychographic segment pegged more than any other.


I remember someone telling me once that they were immune to marketing and the proof was that they buy PBR at bars and drink it conspicuously out of a can.
 
2013-04-03 08:52:38 AM
The quality argument may stand, but the style argument doesn't.  Even in Europe, pale pilseners/lagers are the drink of choice, by sheer volume.  Most people who drink beer aren't trying to enjoy a tasty beverage, they're trying to get shiatfaced, cheaply, without tasting the alcohol.

The true reason beer lovers should be suspicious of all this is because this is an attempt by the big guys to further push craft breweries out of the distribution chain.
 
2013-04-03 09:05:36 AM

heypete: Sure, I can get Chimay White, Stiegl Weisse, Hoegaarden, and other tasty wheat beers at many shops that sell beer, but its rare for restaurants and bars in the US to have such drinks (either on tap or in bottles) but they'll likely have Blue Moon. Blue Moon's also quite a bit cheaper than the good imports, so that's useful when I want a decent beer at a decent price.

/dear $DEITY, I drank so much wheat beer when I was in Austria a few months ago.


Lots of restaurants here sell Hoegaarden. Abita also sells a seasonal wheat beer that blows Blue Moon out of the water.
 
2013-04-03 09:13:10 AM
Stupid quote by him.  THEY sell a liquid.  YOU guys sell beer.
 
2013-04-03 09:20:34 AM
The Batch 19 pre-Prohibition Lager brand from MillerCoors is, dare I say, pretty good. It doesn't give me the headache I get from drinking most other Miller products, either, which is a plus.
 
2013-04-03 09:22:42 AM

BunkyBrewman: Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh lordy.  Here we go.

They sell beer.  You sell beer.  When I buy beer, I am not buying community, I am not buying social advancement, I am not buying self-worth.  I am buying beer.  If I like your beer better, great.  If I like their beer better, sucks to be you.  I like fat, malty ales, which means I drink beers from smaller breweries or the local brewhouse.  If, however, I preferred light pilsener-style American lagers, Budweiser and PBR are fine examples of the style.

Unless you are going to argue that the American lager is not a "real" beer style, STFU.

The argument is how InBev has changed the formulas for some of the great brands they've taken over. (and subsequently ruined them)

 Do you remember drinking Beck's?  Have you tried it lately?  Pick up a six-pack and get back to us when you do.


Never liked it, even before it was Americanized.  But my point still stands - if you don't like it, do what I do.  Don't drink it.

Look - if people don't drink mass-produced beer and DO drink smaller brews, eventually the big brewers will start to make beer that tastes like the small guys' beer and put them completely out of business.  Is that what you want?  IS IT???
 
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