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(BBC)   North Korea has shut down the Kaesong complex   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 287
    More: Followup, Kaesong, North Koreans, Ministry of Unification, South Koreans, Yongbyon  
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18735 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Apr 2013 at 11:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-02 11:54:07 PM
This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.
 
2013-04-02 11:55:48 PM
YOU PAY NOW
 
2013-04-02 11:56:21 PM
"Well, bye."
 
2013-04-02 11:57:20 PM
Best Korea is probably planning on holding those workers 'for their own safety' for a few days, just in case.

South Korea would find it in their best interest to shut the complex down once they get all of their people out of there.

Poor little Kim, what's an aspiring dictator to do these days?
 
2013-04-02 11:57:24 PM

valar_morghulis: YOU PAY NOW


What happened to you valar? You used to be cool.
 
2013-04-02 11:57:35 PM
EVELYBODY PANIC!
 
2013-04-02 11:58:33 PM
Well...this ain't good.
 
2013-04-02 11:59:10 PM
No more ChocoPies?  That should bring the regime down if nothing else.

/ To be fair, they're dangerously addictive
 
2013-04-03 12:00:15 AM

mr lawson: Well...this ain't good.


Pretty much.  How far will they go is the next question.
 
2013-04-03 12:00:28 AM
Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.
 
2013-04-03 12:00:37 AM
If they were really serious, they would've held the South Korean workers hostage.
 
2013-04-03 12:00:54 AM
good idea. If there are two things North Korea doesn't need they're revenue and elevator shoes
 
2013-04-03 12:01:21 AM
Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked.  Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.
 
2013-04-03 12:02:07 AM
Another day in the DPRK...
 
2013-04-03 12:02:36 AM

BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.


meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.
 
2013-04-03 12:02:45 AM
For a moment I thought this was a nuclear facility. No such luck I suppose.

This is a pretty long string of provocations. Is Kim Jong-un just trying to prove that he's more hardcore than his dad?
 
2013-04-03 12:02:50 AM
Ahem... Slaves. The people in the Kaesong complex are slaves.
 
2013-04-03 12:03:16 AM
Welp.  There really isn't anything else they can do now aside from actually opening fire.
 
2013-04-03 12:04:19 AM
I would kill for a chocopie right now.
 
2013-04-03 12:04:31 AM
I guess those late night phone calls to Lindsey Lohan asking for help in his decision making are really starting to pay off.
 
2013-04-03 12:04:32 AM
I think part of the problem is that Lil Kim wants more of a reaction than he's getting.  When you cry wolf so often, the world just goes "Meh" and you lose face to your own leadership.
 
2013-04-03 12:04:32 AM

jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked.  Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.


Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.
 
2013-04-03 12:05:34 AM
For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory.  You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine.  There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer.  Aegis is a system, not a ship class.
 
2013-04-03 12:06:34 AM

BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.


I was one of them, and now I'm interested.  This is where attention belongs; it's where the money is.
 
2013-04-03 12:07:08 AM

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory.  You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine.  There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer.  Aegis is a system, not a ship class.


You have your pet peeves, I have mine.  To Aegis own.
 
2013-04-03 12:08:07 AM
You know what would be ironic?

If the John McCain docked in Vietnam.
 
2013-04-03 12:08:33 AM

ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.


Yeah, this.  The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal.  They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard.  But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.
 
2013-04-03 12:08:43 AM
The Kaesong zone, which is a money-maker for the North, is seen as a key barometer of inter-Korean relations.

Coincidentally in the sidebar, Kim explains his rationale
news.bbcimg.co.uk
 
2013-04-03 12:08:44 AM

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory.  You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine.  There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer.  Aegis is a system, not a ship class.


I got a bigger problem with naming a ship after John McCain

/that sucker is gonna get captured for sure
 
2013-04-03 12:09:21 AM
I am still not convinced that this is anything more than Un throwing a crying fit. But if this continues then things may get hairy soon.
 
2013-04-03 12:09:33 AM
Un, don't make us send Bill Clinton over there. Again. You know what happened last time.
 
2013-04-03 12:09:35 AM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I think part of the problem is that Lil Kim wants more of a reaction than he's getting.  When you cry wolf so often, the world just goes "Meh" and you lose face to your own leadership.


So far the response has been, "Do you really want to play this game?"  Sending in B-2's is a pretty clear message that if he's really a new leader he better act like one, and soon.
 
2013-04-03 12:11:02 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.


Does China really want to risk triggering WW3, or do they want to send us a bill for helping them "nation build" North Korea?
 
2013-04-03 12:11:37 AM

meat0918: jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked.  Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.


That's very possible.  Or maybe the military are fed up with the dynasty and are taking advantage of his youth by "advising" him to do stupid stuff.  They could be hoping someone will intervene, whoop Kimmy boy's ass & leave a nice power vacuum for them to fill; I bet they're envious of the lifestyles of their equivalents over in China?
 
2013-04-03 12:11:56 AM
So it's on?
 
2013-04-03 12:13:17 AM

davidphogan: Does China really want to risk triggering WW3, or do they want to send us a bill for helping them "nation build" North Korea?


Wait...  This might not be a bad idea.  The US gets cheap Chinese labor, the Chinese get employment without building more empty skyscrapers, the South Koreans get a kind-of reunified peninsula (minus all those the Chinese need to borrow), North Korea gets rebuilt from scratch, and if we really want to we can tack on a good 5-10 year war with China to thin out the ranks of healthy young males on both sides and get the economy out of this funk.

Since I'm over 30, I'm not sure if this is a terrible idea or a good one.
 
2013-04-03 12:14:20 AM

davidphogan: Benevolent Misanthrope: I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.

Does China really want to risk triggering WW3, or do they want to send us a bill for helping them "nation build" North Korea?


Maybe that's the underlying theme here. We kind of assume that military action would end in a unification of Korea, but may very well end with a new Best Korea controlled by PRC
 
2013-04-03 12:15:01 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory.  You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine.  There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer.  Aegis is a system, not a ship class.

I got a bigger problem with naming a ship after John McCain

/that sucker is gonna get captured for sure


It's named after his dad, I think.
 
2013-04-03 12:15:29 AM

BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.


Haha, yeah the NK Specialist Brit on NPR was saying he wasn't at all worried as long as Kaesong, and there was no way it was going to close.  Oops.
 
2013-04-03 12:17:55 AM
wow I miss that song ... "and the Kaesongs go rolling along"

/too old?
 
2013-04-03 12:19:06 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory.  You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine.  There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer.  Aegis is a system, not a ship class.

I got a bigger problem with naming a ship after John McCain

/that sucker is gonna get captured for sure

It's named after his dad, I think.


That would make more sense, seeing as how they don't typically name ships after live, sitting office holders

/not nearly as funny, though
//looking for a deal on a good used sarcasm detector?
 
2013-04-03 12:19:15 AM

Brontes: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

Haha, yeah the NK Specialist Brit on NPR was saying he wasn't at all worried as long as Kaesong, and there was no way it was going to close.  Oops.


Yeah, I was listening to that not 6 hours ago.  Amusing in one sense, worrying in another...
 
2013-04-03 12:19:18 AM
Hey, we might actually have a ballgame, folks.
 
2013-04-03 12:19:36 AM

hardinparamedic: You know what would be ironic?

If the John McCain docked in Vietnam.


I'd rather see him do the Harlem Shake.
 
2013-04-03 12:19:39 AM
Yep.

Brontes: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

Haha, yeah the NK Specialist Brit on NPR was saying he wasn't at all worried as long as Kaesong, and there was no way it was going to close.  Oops.


Yep. Just heard that today too. The line was something like, "Well they could do things like hold SK's hostage... but as long as they aren't doing that I think we can sleep pretty soundly at night."

well... about that...
 
2013-04-03 12:19:57 AM
Nobody has actually died yet, though. There was the shelling of that island a while back, and the torpedoing of that submarine (back during the reign of Kim Jong-il.)
 
2013-04-03 12:21:05 AM
Thanks, Rodman.
 
2013-04-03 12:21:59 AM
As long as they don't close down the K-Y Jelly factory things should be ok.
 
2013-04-03 12:22:30 AM

ACunningPlan: meat0918: jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked.  Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.

That's very possible.  Or maybe the military are fed up with the dynasty and are taking advantage of his youth by "advising" him to do stupid stuff.  They could be hoping someone will intervene, whoop Kimmy boy's ass & leave a nice power vacuum for them to fill; I bet they're envious of the lifestyles of their equivalents over in China?


I've been telling everyone this.... chubby kim is being led with a lot of bowing and scraping right into a big pile of poop.
 
FNG [TotalFark]
2013-04-03 12:23:09 AM
Oh, l'il kim, what will you think of next. You scamp, you.

Now STFU before you really get hurt.
 
2013-04-03 12:23:56 AM

What in The: Un, don't make us send Bill Clinton over there. Again. You know what happened last time.


He came home with two chicks?
 
2013-04-03 12:24:30 AM

BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.


Yeah, this is getting interesting.
 
2013-04-03 12:24:34 AM

duenor: ACunningPlan: meat0918: jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked.  Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.

That's very possible.  Or maybe the military are fed up with the dynasty and are taking advantage of his youth by "advising" him to do stupid stuff.  They could be hoping someone will intervene, whoop Kimmy boy's ass & leave a nice power vacuum for them to fill; I bet they're envious of the lifestyles of their equivalents over in China?

I've been telling everyone this.... chubby kim is being led with a lot of bowing and scraping right into a big pile of poop.


Un has been abroad. He knows the score. I bet he wants out as much as anyone else. Starting a bad war might be the best way to get deposed and be able to flee the country.
 
2013-04-03 12:24:44 AM
Wow, it's reaching internet levels of serious. They will have to send their next message using Serious Cat.
 
2013-04-03 12:25:13 AM

valar_morghulis: YOU PAY NOW


HURRY UP AND BUY!!

i3.ytimg.com
 
2013-04-03 12:25:22 AM
China could stop this if they wanted to badly enough, this has been the case since the original war. But Derp Korea would be very expensive for the Chinese to absorb, in money and manpower, for little return.  The back-channel negotiations are probably going strong already,  meanwhile, North's people are starving, they don't even get the warm cups of snow like we Americans do.

The North's situation is not something that can last; history proves that. But when it eventually goes, it will go on the most epic scale anyone has seen since the third century. The collateral damage will be worldwide and massive.
 
2013-04-03 12:28:33 AM
Well, one thing that this shows is that the road to actual conflict is a surprisingly long one. If the situation escalates into a shooting war, it won't be much of a surprise.

That said, there should be a large amount of tension in the NK high command right now. At some point the NK military will either decide to take out the Kim or play along until the endgame. I wonder what they'll do?
 
2013-04-03 12:28:36 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Wow, it's reaching internet levels of serious. They will have to send their next message using Serious Cat.


So.....Serious Cat v Grumpy Cat? Jebus, Vegas would crash the power grid with that kind of headliner.
 
2013-04-03 12:29:08 AM

Any Pie Left: China could stop this if they wanted to badly enough, this has been the case since the original war. But Derp Korea would be very expensive for the Chinese to absorb, in money and manpower, for little return.  The back-channel negotiations are probably going strong already,  meanwhile, North's people are starving, they don't even get the warm cups of snow like we Americans do.

The North's situation is not something that can last; history proves that. But when it eventually goes, it will go on the most epic scale anyone has seen since the third century. The collateral damage will be worldwide and massive.


And birds, we get to eat all the birds we can catch...
 
2013-04-03 12:29:09 AM
Every time I hear on the news, the crisis has hit a crescendo ... Then even more from NK.

I think our estimates are incorrect. He's quite childish, selfish, very young, pissed off , powerful and determined to lash out...with nuclear weapons. A madman.

I think we are going to have to fight NK.

It's getting worse, not better.

And this is just the stuff we know about so we can sleep at night.
 
2013-04-03 12:29:18 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Yeah, this. The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal. They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard. But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.


I'm not so sure about that. I think they'll make the same mistake the Germans did (twice) and cross the line, assuming the enemy won't fight back. I predict in the coming days that NK will shell some remote island, or shoot at (but miss) a SK plane or vessel, and they'll expect to get away with it. But now that SK has told its military "do what you need to, and ignore the political ramifications" it could escalate quickly and catch NK off guard.
 
2013-04-03 12:29:43 AM

ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.


Not to be snarky, but when? I'd like to see the context for those closings.
 
2013-04-03 12:29:51 AM
I wish there was someone who could pull this fat fark Un aside and say "you know how the world is farked up right now?  There are a lot of farkheads in the world that make it that way.  Don't be one of them, you farking little shiat.  You're not a God.  God wouldn't be a fat little shiat who hangs out with Dennis Rodman for fark's sake.  Get your shiat together."
 
2013-04-03 12:30:15 AM

Kuta: Thanks, Rodman.


I read that as "Batman" and was very confused.
 
2013-04-03 12:32:25 AM

Kuta: Thanks, Rodman.


Seriously. Our grandchildren are going to learn an eccentric, former basketball-player started WWIII?
 
2013-04-03 12:33:29 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory.  You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine.  There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer.  Aegis is a system, not a ship class.

I got a bigger problem with naming a ship after John McCain

/that sucker is gonna get captured for sure

It's named after his dad, I think.

That would make more sense, seeing as how they don't typically name ships after live, sitting office holders

/not nearly as funny, though
//looking for a deal on a good used sarcasm detector?


It was named after both his father and grandfather, actually.  McCain is John McCain the III.   His father/grandfather actually had pretty impressive / decorated careers.
 
2013-04-03 12:33:30 AM
Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
img109.imageshack.us
That is not a good look.
 
2013-04-03 12:34:58 AM

doglover: Un has been abroad. He knows the score. I bet he wants out as much as anyone else. Starting a bad war might be the best way to get deposed and be able to flee the country.


Yeah.  He hasn't been "in power" for very long. But it's worth noting that he hasn't, since his father's death, visited China (AFAIK), as his father and granddaddy did from time to time.  He may not be permitted to, on the worry that he'd go all "I'm going to (Tokyo) Disneyland!" on them.
 
2013-04-03 12:35:08 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: HURRY UP AND BUY!!


Gahahaha. Loved that movie.
 
2013-04-03 12:35:43 AM

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory.  You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine.  There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer.  Aegis is a system, not a ship class.


Isn't the Aegis carried on cruisers and not destroyers?
 
2013-04-03 12:35:46 AM

red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look.


It's like the gangnam version of the 90's bowl cut
 
2013-04-03 12:36:12 AM

red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look.


Asian hi-top fade.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-03 12:36:32 AM

Modguy: Not to be snarky, but when? I'd like to see the context for those closings.


they last closed it in 2009 for a few days in response to the US-SK military drills
 
2013-04-03 12:37:06 AM

Bisu: Kuta: Thanks, Rodman.

Seriously. Our grandchildren are going to learn an eccentric, former basketball-player started WWIII?


This is all a ploy by HBO to get more subscribers.
 
2013-04-03 12:37:28 AM

Any Pie Left: North's people are starving, they don't even get the warm cups of snow like we Americans do.


I didn't get my bird yesterday either.
 
2013-04-03 12:37:36 AM

CthulhuCalling: Isn't the Aegis carried on cruisers and not destroyers?


On both Arleigh Burke class destroyers and Ticonderoga class cruisers.   Should be noted that not all Arleigh Burke and Ticonderogas have Aegis.
 
2013-04-03 12:38:12 AM

red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look.

an approved North Korean hair style.

timenewsfeed.files.wordpress.com

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/02/25/these-are-north-koreas-28-state- ap proved-hairstyles/
 
2013-04-03 12:38:40 AM

red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look.


Since when have dictators ever had good hairstyles?
 
2013-04-03 12:38:41 AM
img209.imageshack.us
 
2013-04-03 12:38:50 AM
I had a brother at Kaesong
Fighting off them Viet-cong
They're still there, he's all gone
 
2013-04-03 12:39:10 AM

Any Pie Left: The North's situation is not something that can last; history proves that. But when it eventually goes, it will go on the most epic scale anyone has seen since the third century. The collateral damage will be worldwide and massive.


ct.fra.bz
 
2013-04-03 12:39:16 AM

CthulhuCalling: Isn't the Aegis carried on cruisers and not destroyers?


From Wiki, Cruisers and Destroyers.   Link.
 
2013-04-03 12:39:30 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-03 12:39:53 AM

BarkingUnicorn: hardinparamedic: You know what would be ironic?

If the John McCain docked in Vietnam.

I'd rather see him do the Harlem Shake.


They do that on the USS McFly
 
2013-04-03 12:40:37 AM
Woah woah woah...I've got a theory. Rodman has a lot of experience with cross-dressing and makeup and the like, right? Being a master of disguise, has anyone considered that maybe Rodman secretly apprehended/assassinated Un and took his place with an elaborate costume? Have any of you guys actually seen or talked to Rodman since he supposedly returned from his trip? Didn't think so.

/They're the same height, right?
 
2013-04-03 12:41:33 AM

tinyarena: [img209.imageshack.us image 290x190]


Nice-a rong-a tube, but-a where does-a the noodle go?
 
2013-04-03 12:41:35 AM

duenor: I've been telling everyone this.... chubby kim is being led with a lot of bowing and scraping right into a big pile of poop.


Honestly, with the way this sounds I have a sneaking suspicion Jong-un is a dead man walking at this point. I half-suspect he'll end up assassinated in a Chinese-backed coup at the hands of younger North Korean military officers.
 
2013-04-03 12:41:38 AM

that bosnian sniper: Hey, we might actually have a ballgame, folks.


If dumb becomes dumber, I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack that says China will slap down Lil Kim in order to keep the US from entering into a shooting war. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is just NK's way of negotiating for humanitarian aid from China.
 
2013-04-03 12:42:25 AM

Bith Set Me Up: red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look.

Since when have dictators ever had good hairstyles?


Stalin always looked pretty good in photos/sculptures/paintings, probably because anyone who made him look bad ended up in a gulag.
 
2013-04-03 12:43:04 AM

What in The: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Wow, it's reaching internet levels of serious. They will have to send their next message using Serious Cat.

So.....Serious Cat v Grumpy Cat? Jebus, Vegas would crash the power grid with that kind of headliner.


And once Colonel Meow steps in, hoo boy. All hell will break loose...
 
2013-04-03 12:43:19 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com

It's time to Break Glass Only In Case of War
 
2013-04-03 12:43:33 AM

Notabunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, we might actually have a ballgame, folks.

If dumb becomes dumber, I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack that says China will slap down Lil Kim in order to keep the US from entering into a shooting war. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is just NK's way of negotiating for humanitarian aid from China.


That or, if China's real estate bubble is as bad as it's been rumored they want to get rid of a bunch of 20-30 year old males and blame someone else after they surrender.
 
2013-04-03 12:43:38 AM
An attack from the DPRK would hurt, and be expensive to clean up.

But it would also essentially signal the end of the DPRK.

What good is a standing army of 1.5 million men without trucks to transport or supply them, let alone supplies to load onto those truck to feed them?

One carefully placed FAE would put an end to any morale that north korean foot soldiers have.

And then south korea and china will have to deal with an unbelievable influx of refugees.
 
2013-04-03 12:46:20 AM

davidphogan: Notabunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, we might actually have a ballgame, folks.

If dumb becomes dumber, I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack that says China will slap down Lil Kim in order to keep the US from entering into a shooting war. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is just NK's way of negotiating for humanitarian aid from China.

That or, if China's real estate bubble is as bad as it's been rumored they want to get rid of a bunch of 20-30 year old males and blame someone else after they surrender.


That and there are about 25 million more young males than there are women in china, I bet those starving NK chicks are starting to look pretty good to them now.
 
2013-04-03 12:47:59 AM
You know what would have prevented all this?  Not building your capital within artillery range of a f'ing insane asylum.  What was S Korea thinking?
 
2013-04-03 12:48:21 AM
The real problem is, that this is about the last action that he can take that doesn't involve a use of force.  I mean he is threatening nuclear attack (that he probably can't carry out), he has shut off lines of communication, he has stated his forces are on alert (no real sign of increased activity), reactivated a shutdown reactors contrary to previous agreements, and now shutting down one of his only means of gaining hard currency for the luxury items his regime needs to keep leadership happy.  There is basicly nothing else he can do to throw a temper tantrum that won't put someone at risk of losing their life.  Artillery attacks, naval skirmishes, terrorist strikes are just about the only thing left he can use.  If this doesn't achieve his goal of solidifying his rule, the next thing we may see is something that results in damage, injuries, and death.
 
2013-04-03 12:49:12 AM
In recent weeks it has also threatened attacks on US military bases in Asia and South Korean border islands. On Tuesday it said it planned to restart its mothballed reactor at Yongbyon - the source of plutonium for its nuclear weapons programme.

No mention of large boiled squash or Washington in flames?
 
2013-04-03 12:49:55 AM

humanshrapnel: red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look. an approved North Korean hair style.

[timenewsfeed.files.wordpress.com image 753x491]

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/02/25/these-are-north-koreas-28-state- ap proved-hairstyles/


The middle guy seriously looks like 임요환 when he first joined the Air Force.

/A far less attractive version, of course.
 
2013-04-03 12:49:55 AM

4seasons85!: I am still not convinced that this is anything more than Un throwing a crying fit. But if this continues then things may get hairy soon.


Eveyone hits puberty eventually so technically yeah.
 
2013-04-03 12:51:23 AM

mizchief: davidphogan: Notabunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, we might actually have a ballgame, folks.

If dumb becomes dumber, I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack that says China will slap down Lil Kim in order to keep the US from entering into a shooting war. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is just NK's way of negotiating for humanitarian aid from China.

That or, if China's real estate bubble is as bad as it's been rumored they want to get rid of a bunch of 20-30 year old males and blame someone else after they surrender.

That and there are about 25 million more young males than there are women in china, I bet those starving NK chicks are starting to look pretty good to them now.


I'll start

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-03 12:52:24 AM

Bisu: Kuta: Thanks, Rodman.

Seriously. Our grandchildren are going to learn an eccentric, former basketball-player started WWIII?


True, Rodman is a low grade moron, but somehow I don't think NK vs US these days is anywhere near WW3.  First, and foremost, neither China nor Russia care what happens to NK, as opposed to the old days.  They want it to be taken care of quickly.  If you recall, we were hopscotching through NK last time until China decided to get involved.  I don't think they are going to care this time.

NK does not have to the capacity to accurately aim or project their one of two dud atomics; therefore, those things aren't coming our way.  They do have tactical capability, SK may take a little hit.  Within the first few hours of an exchange, NK would no longer be able to place anything in the air, which means their armor would be sitting ducks.

After killing the fat boy and his family, then eliminating all of the high hats in the military, the rest of the population will become fair docile.  They have been trained to be docile.

Better to get this over with now, rather than later when some other Pakistani yahoo sells them more nuclear tech.
 
2013-04-03 12:54:22 AM
s22.postimg.org
 
2013-04-03 12:54:57 AM
img.auctiva.com


Over hill over dale we will hit the dusty trail
As the Kaesongs go rolling along
Up and down, in and out, Countermarch and right about,
And our Kaesongs go rolling along
For it's hi-hi-hee in the Field Artillery, Shout out the number loud and strong
Till our final ride, It will always be our pride
To keep those Kaesongs a rolling along
 
2013-04-03 12:58:30 AM

Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.



Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?
 
2013-04-03 12:58:40 AM

red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzhZUf5OtE

Made me think of this.  1:15-1:40
 
2013-04-03 01:01:09 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.

Yeah, this.  The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal.  They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard.  But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.


SK would take a whole bunch of hurt, then rally and clean the NK clock.
 
2013-04-03 01:01:41 AM

Notabunny: I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack


Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that.
 
2013-04-03 01:04:24 AM

Notabunny: mizchief: davidphogan: Notabunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, we might actually have a ballgame, folks.

If dumb becomes dumber, I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack that says China will slap down Lil Kim in order to keep the US from entering into a shooting war. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is just NK's way of negotiating for humanitarian aid from China.

That or, if China's real estate bubble is as bad as it's been rumored they want to get rid of a bunch of 20-30 year old males and blame someone else after they surrender.

That and there are about 25 million more young males than there are women in china, I bet those starving NK chicks are starting to look pretty good to them now.

I'll start

[img.photobucket.com image 800x600]


And she's 62.
 
2013-04-03 01:05:19 AM
Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.
 
2013-04-03 01:05:22 AM

Amos Quito: Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.


Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?


Those civilians will probably try to walk to the nearest border.

I have a coworker from Beijing who says that nork refugees in china are already a problem of some political sensitivity. There are enough that you notice 'em. More coming over the border every day for years. And a lot of them are operating food carts and that sort of thing.

They probably adjust better to life in china than they would adjust to life in south korea. the freedom and standard of living in south korea would blow their minds.
 
2013-04-03 01:06:55 AM

Bisu: Kuta: Thanks, Rodman.

Seriously. Our grandchildren are going to learn an eccentric, former basketball-player started WWIII?


Rodman is actually the Primus Illuminatus.
 
2013-04-03 01:06:57 AM
Um, It's not shutting down? They're only blocking Worst Korea workers?
 
2013-04-03 01:07:13 AM

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory.  You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine.  There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer.  Aegis is a system, not a ship class.


i2.listal.com

/Ok.. it's technically the Ticonderoga class cruisers... but still...
//Couldn't get the game to load half the time... curses be upon DOS.
 
2013-04-03 01:07:41 AM
What are Alan Alda and Mike Farrell doing this days? Are we going to have to send THEM back?
 
2013-04-03 01:09:02 AM

Asa Phelps: They probably adjust better to life in china than they would adjust to life in south korea. the freedom and standard of living in south korea would blow their minds.


Reddit did a great AMA with a North Korean refugee.  It was really interesting.

Oh, here we go.   Link.
 
2013-04-03 01:10:50 AM

js34603: valar_morghulis: YOU PAY NOW

What happened to you valar? You used to be cool.


He need eat more vegetable.
 
2013-04-03 01:11:46 AM

Asa Phelps: Amos Quito: Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.


Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?

Those civilians will probably try to walk to the nearest border.

I have a coworker from Beijing who says that nork refugees in china are already a problem of some political sensitivity. There are enough that you notice 'em. More coming over the border every day for years. And a lot of them are operating food carts and that sort of thing.

They probably adjust better to life in china than they would adjust to life in south korea. the freedom and standard of living in south korea would blow their minds.


So they are the Mexicans of China?
 
2013-04-03 01:11:52 AM

davidphogan: Benevolent Misanthrope: I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.

Does China really want to risk triggering WW3, or do they want to send us a bill for helping them "nation build" North Korea?


What has China got anything to do with anything? again most folks are assuming China has much influence on NK when in reality NK pretty much do their own thing and China AT BEST can only persuade them to chill the F out which they have done on numerous oacasion to no avail.
 
2013-04-03 01:12:22 AM

Asa Phelps: Amos Quito: Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.


Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?

Those civilians will probably try to walk to the nearest border.

I have a coworker from Beijing who says that nork refugees in china are already a problem of some political sensitivity. There are enough that you notice 'em. More coming over the border every day for years. And a lot of them are operating food carts and that sort of thing.

They probably adjust better to life in china than they would adjust to life in south korea. the freedom and standard of living in south korea would blow their minds.



If the minefields didn't blow them first.
 
2013-04-03 01:22:06 AM

Allen262: Asa Phelps: Amos Quito: Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.


Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?

Those civilians will probably try to walk to the nearest border.

I have a coworker from Beijing who says that nork refugees in china are already a problem of some political sensitivity. There are enough that you notice 'em. More coming over the border every day for years. And a lot of them are operating food carts and that sort of thing.

They probably adjust better to life in china than they would adjust to life in south korea. the freedom and standard of living in south korea would blow their minds.

So they are the Mexicans of China?


Pretty much.

Also, did you know that Han chinese are the most racist people on earth?

I mean sure they think that black people are magical, but that just means they're weird about their racism.

I remember i was talking to chuck one day and asked what chinese buffet he considers the best. He told me Golden Buffet. I asked him about Ho-Ho Gourmet - said that i had heard that it was pretty good.

And chuck said: "Well, it is pretty good, but the man who owns it, he is from hong kong, so it is not really chinese."

/yes, his real name is not chuck
//That was over a year ago, New Golden Dragon is now the best
///Yes, chinese people like chinese buffets too.
 
2013-04-03 01:22:51 AM

Sexpun T'Come: Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.


The game of life is hard to play
I'm going to lose it anyways
Someday the losing card I'll someday lay
So this is all I have to say

/Profound song.
//Depressing song.
 
2013-04-03 01:24:17 AM

Asa Phelps: An attack from the DPRK would hurt, and be expensive to clean up.

But it would also essentially signal the end of the DPRK.

What good is a standing army of 1.5 million men without trucks to transport or supply them, let alone supplies to load onto those truck to feed them?

One carefully placed FAE would put an end to any morale that north korean foot soldiers have.

And then south korea and china will have to deal with an unbelievable influx of refugees.


Field Applications Engineer?
Fundamental Attribution Error?

Oh, I got it!  Fuerza Aérea Ecuatoriana, the Ecuadorian Air Force!
 
2013-04-03 01:24:41 AM
Satanic_Hamster:

Man, pet peeve of mine. There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer. Aegis is a system, not a ship class.

I'm not up on such things, but I'm gonna guess that not every class of ship can support Aegis.

Pretty sure there aren't many kayaks, canoes or tugboats that are "Aegis class."
 
2013-04-03 01:24:54 AM

Bisu: Kuta: Thanks, Rodman.

Seriously. Our grandchildren are going to learn an eccentric, former basketball-player started WWIII?


I taught my son this, just yesterday.
 
2013-04-03 01:26:10 AM

spamdog: For a moment I thought this was a nuclear facility. No such luck I suppose.

This is a pretty long string of provocations. Is Kim Jong-un just trying to prove that he's more hardcore than his dad?


I was wondering if it was one of the concentration camps in NK....well a man can dream.
 
2013-04-03 01:26:37 AM

Notabunny: mizchief: davidphogan: Notabunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, we might actually have a ballgame, folks.

If dumb becomes dumber, I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack that says China will slap down Lil Kim in order to keep the US from entering into a shooting war. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is just NK's way of negotiating for humanitarian aid from China.

That or, if China's real estate bubble is as bad as it's been rumored they want to get rid of a bunch of 20-30 year old males and blame someone else after they surrender.

That and there are about 25 million more young males than there are women in china, I bet those starving NK chicks are starting to look pretty good to them now.

I'll start

[img.photobucket.com image 800x600]


Nope.  Still don't trust Koreans. (It's not racism, it's culturism.)

Try again. :-)
 
2013-04-03 01:27:58 AM

Amos Quito: Asa Phelps: Amos Quito: Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.


Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?

Those civilians will probably try to walk to the nearest border.

I have a coworker from Beijing who says that nork refugees in china are already a problem of some political sensitivity. There are enough that you notice 'em. More coming over the border every day for years. And a lot of them are operating food carts and that sort of thing.

They probably adjust better to life in china than they would adjust to life in south korea. the freedom and standard of living in south korea would blow their minds.


If the minefields didn't blow them first.


4.bp.blogspot.com

Good at blow, and currently not busy.
 
2013-04-03 01:28:54 AM
Shiat just really got real. I've been one of those supporting attacking N. korea for a long time. Now it seems like the North Koreans want a war too. This is farking stupid of them if they don't.
 
2013-04-03 01:30:06 AM
Hot-headed little Un. At least pops knew how to keep the gravy train rolling.
 
2013-04-03 01:30:33 AM
Great Leader Prepares to ride into battle...
i1.wp.com
 
2013-04-03 01:31:06 AM

cantthinkofafarkingname: Um, It's not shutting down? They're only blocking Worst Korea workers?


The managers (and more importantly paymasters) are all South Korean. The facilities are run by South Korean companies; if they can't get their men there, no one gets paid.
 
2013-04-03 01:32:39 AM
And then?
 
2013-04-03 01:33:09 AM

Amos Quito: Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.


Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?


Yeah.  This is a NK country marketplace:

farm2.staticflickr.com

And this is ... I have no words...

positiveactivism.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-03 01:33:49 AM

Kevin72: I was wondering if it was one of the concentration camps in NK....well a man can dream.


You're kinda right, if that helps. It's just the reward concentration camp instead of the punishment concentration camp.

/ Everything's relative!
// Even really depressing stuff!
 
2013-04-03 01:33:56 AM
Kids' Taekwondo teacher is South Korean, and I used to talk to him about this.  Last time we discussed it was when they lobbed a couple of artillery shells.  He just shrugged his shoulders and said that they mainly ignore what goes on up North.  This time does feel a little different, but haven't had a chance to talk to him yet.  I'm guessing some more ugly looks and words, maybe a few bullets or shells, but that will be about it.  They maybe total jackasses, but they have to know they will get their asses kicked worse than Duke did Sunday.  Exactly what they are trying to accomplish or gain, I have no clue, but an all out war will be an absolute shock.
 
2013-04-03 01:34:38 AM

A Terrible Human: Any Pie Left: North's people are starving, they don't even get the warm cups of snow like we Americans do.

I didn't get my bird yesterday either.


There aren't any left.
 
2013-04-03 01:35:13 AM

Notabunny: that bosnian sniper: Hey, we might actually have a ballgame, folks.

If dumb becomes dumber, I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack that says China will slap down Lil Kim in order to keep the US from entering into a shooting war. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is just NK's way of negotiating for humanitarian aid from China.


...weirdest boner.

/the jack & panties part
//maaaaaaybe
 
2013-04-03 01:36:35 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Benevolent Misanthrope: ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.

Yeah, this.  The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal.  They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard.  But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.

SK would take a whole bunch of hurt, then rally and clean the NK clock.


Just like the last time?
 
2013-04-03 01:38:37 AM

duenor: Yep.Brontes: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

Haha, yeah the NK Specialist Brit on NPR was saying he wasn't at all worried as long as Kaesong, and there was no way it was going to close.  Oops.

Yep. Just heard that today too. The line was something like, "Well they could do things like hold SK's hostage... but as long as they aren't doing that I think we can sleep pretty soundly at night."

well... about that...


Thankfully they aren't. They're simply blocking South Koreans from coming in. At least according to TFA, they are still allowing the South Koreans who were already there to leave. Maybe things have changed, but so far everything they've done has simply been words and symbolism.
 
2013-04-03 01:38:57 AM
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-03 01:39:29 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.


Operation Desert Storm? When you can make your enemy surrender to the media, I think you probably win.
 
2013-04-03 01:40:39 AM
Barking Unicorn:

Damn...
 
2013-04-03 01:41:05 AM

red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look.


Glate Clips...
 
2013-04-03 01:42:33 AM

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Barking Unicorn:

Damn...


Yeah.
 
2013-04-03 01:43:13 AM

Any Pie Left: China could stop this if they wanted to badly enough, this has been the case since the original war. But Derp Korea would be very expensive for the Chinese to absorb, in money and manpower, for little return.  The back-channel negotiations are probably going strong already,  meanwhile, North's people are starving, they don't even get the warm cups of snow like we Americans do..


What warm cups of snow might look like:

www.yellowsnow.co
 
2013-04-03 01:45:48 AM

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Barking Unicorn:

Damn...


What the hell did you think "The North Koreans are starving." meant in the 1000s of times you've seen it?
 
2013-04-03 01:49:34 AM
OMG!!! It must be getting real. After reading this tread I've got a hard on. Write on Farkers, write on.
 
2013-04-03 01:49:40 AM

doglover: yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Barking Unicorn:

Damn...

What the hell did you think "The North Koreans are starving." meant in the 1000s of times you've seen it?


"Humanity" is a pejorative.
 
2013-04-03 01:53:52 AM
Last I checked, the Doomsday Clock was at 11:55.  Three more minutes and we have an awesome Iron Maiden tune.

Come on Fatty, three more minutes and its

"Kill for gain or shoot to maim
But we don't need a reason"
 
2013-04-03 01:54:37 AM
www.tinygif.com
 
2013-04-03 01:56:18 AM
Doglover:

I don't know. What I do know is that photo. That photo is as powerful as the Vietnam photos of the officer pulling the trigger and the girl that had the skin falling off of her... Or the Nazi concentration camp photos in WWII.

This is the photo to show America that there is a humanitarian reason to end the status quo in NK to justify action. Not only does NK try to bully the United States, NK bullies their own children.

The world should speak to NK in a united voice. Now. Right the fark now.
 
2013-04-03 01:56:58 AM

ImpendingCynic: Benevolent Misanthrope: Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.

Operation Desert Storm? When you can make your enemy surrender to the media, I think you probably win.


Korea?
Vietnam?
Somalia?
Iraq?
Afghanistan?

I didn't say we NEVER win (you could bring up Grenada, too, that hard-fought battle against a seemingly invincible enemy).  I said we aren't known for it.
 
2013-04-03 01:57:31 AM

Thats_right_ALL_the_tea: Kevin72: I was wondering if it was one of the concentration camps in NK....well a man can dream.

You're kinda right, if that helps. It's just the reward concentration camp instead of the punishment concentration camp.

/ Everything's relative!
// Even really depressing stuff!


That does make sense. They do have a job but it's still in the total police state.
 
2013-04-03 01:58:14 AM

humanshrapnel: approved North Korean hair style


What the shiat. Even for a crazy isolated hermit state...what the shiat, man?

I don't know why anyone anywhere micromanages anyone or anything. It's so much goddamned work. Work smarter, not harder, focus on governance because that's hard and complicated enough, forget worrying about hairstyles.

The Norks never cease to amaze me.
 
2013-04-03 02:01:11 AM

camaroash: 4seasons85!: I am still not convinced that this is anything more than Un throwing a crying fit. But if this continues then things may get hairy soon.

Eveyone hits puberty eventually so technically yeah.


I think Un may be going through puberty. That would explain the mood swings. He's going through his rebellious phase, awe!
 
2013-04-03 02:01:19 AM

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Doglover:

I don't know. What I do know is that photo. That photo is as powerful as the Vietnam photos of the officer pulling the trigger and the girl that had the skin falling off of her... Or the Nazi concentration camp photos in WWII.

This is the photo to show America that there is a humanitarian reason to end the status quo in NK to justify action. Not only does NK try to bully the United States, NK bullies their own children.

The world should speak to NK in a united voice. Now. Right the fark now.


I read on FARK that the U.N. refonted their strongly worded letter to NK from Comic Sans to Times New Roman.
 
2013-04-03 02:02:33 AM

maxheck: Satanic_Hamster:

Man, pet peeve of mine. There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer. Aegis is a system, not a ship class.

I'm not up on such things, but I'm gonna guess that not every class of ship can support Aegis.

Pretty sure there aren't many kayaks, canoes or tugboats that are "Aegis class."


An Aegis tugboat would be pretty sweet. Instead of getting your hands all dirty handling ropes, you could just shove boats around with the radiation pressure from your RADAR beam.
 
2013-04-03 02:07:04 AM
For those who are saying a war with NK will be over and done within x amount of days....how many wars play out like that? Our military is already stretched. I don't see how you could open up a 3rd front with what we have, guys serving how many rotations to patrol the deserts of Afghanistan? Then what, a draft?  Seriously, we would be in up to our armpits if NK goes south.
 
2013-04-03 02:09:46 AM
OK explain this in simple terms:  WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad?  Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?
 
2013-04-03 02:15:38 AM
We win wars like a boss. It's the occupation we suck at. How long did Saddam's government hold out? How long did the Taliban have control of anything more than caves and remote villages? I'm not advocating war but don't get the two things confused. North Korea has what we kill best, obsolete Russian cold war crap.
 
2013-04-03 02:17:56 AM

bluorangefyre: OK explain this in simple terms:  WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad?  Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?


This would not be a boots-on-the-ground war, at least not many American boots.  Our air superiority would wipe out all of their command-and-control on day one, then the SK army goes in to maintain order.  Very few American lives at risk.
 
2013-04-03 02:19:10 AM
On a side note, if Un is an absolute monarch who inherited ruling the country from dad (who inherited it from his dad), how come the media bends over backwards not to call him a king? Are they afraid he'll give kings a bad name?
 
2013-04-03 02:19:39 AM
The reason this is a big deal, isn't because it was some sort of metaphorical olive branch between North-South Korea. The reason that it is a big deal, is because South Korea built the industrial complex at Kaesong. What has effectively happened, at least temporarily, is that North Korea has seized South Korean assets. Hyundai industries and the like built the whole damn place. That is their machinery, their tooling, their factories. Lot of capital they invested there, albeit for reasons of gaining an economic advantage by employing people at slave wages. The South Koreans built the place in the first place because they could pay North Koreans 1/4 the price they would pay a Chinese person to produce textiles and the like.

/if this remains permanently closed, it is akin to Fidel seizing American enterprises in Cuba. Somewhat a military posturing gesture, but more of a dickish-communist gesture, "I own your shiat now".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaesong_Industrial_Region
 
2013-04-03 02:22:11 AM

powhound: For those who are saying a war with NK will be over and done within x amount of days....how many wars play out like that? Our military is already stretched. I don't see how you could open up a 3rd front with what we have, guys serving how many rotations to patrol the deserts of Afghanistan? Then what, a draft?  Seriously, we would be in up to our armpits if NK goes south.


3rd front? ...what?

*counts on fingers* OK, there's Afghanistan, and ...
 
2013-04-03 02:27:52 AM
The US has to be at war somewhere in order to prop up the economy. After all, we have a half million active duty military personnel, and we can't just start folding those folks into the economy back home, can we? Better to take on Best Korea than Pakistan, amirite?!
 
2013-04-03 02:28:16 AM

powhound: For those who are saying a war with NK will be over and done within x amount of days....how many wars play out like that? Our military is already stretched. I don't see how you could open up a 3rd front with what we have, guys serving how many rotations to patrol the deserts of Afghanistan? Then what, a draft?  Seriously, we would be in up to our armpits if NK goes south.


That's the difference between war and occupation. We destroyed the ability for those countries to attack us in a matter of days, but since they had something we wanted we stuck around for 10 years. If we would stop our imperialist ways and use our military for defense only, we would destroy our enemy's ability to harm us and let whatever government the people left standing could muster be as it may, If that new government happens to be democratic and lives up to similar ethics of our own we can do business, otherwise if that regime wants to make threats the process repeats.

If we did this we would live within the resources our country could produce or equally trade, narrow the gap between the rich and poor as we would not allow our goods to be manufactured by oppressed slave labor, stop creating terrorist and bolstering communism.
 
2013-04-03 02:32:06 AM

transplendent: The US has to be at war somewhere in order to prop up the economy. After all, we have a half million active duty military personnel, and we can't just start folding those folks into the economy back home, can we? Better to take on Best Korea than Pakistan, amirite?!


We could announce an amnesty program and send Starship Troopers.
 
2013-04-03 02:33:48 AM

spamdog: For a moment I thought this was a nuclear facility. No such luck I suppose.

This is a pretty long string of provocations. Is Kim Jong-un just trying to prove that he's more hardcore than his dad?


Pretty much, yeah.  His dad held onto his country with an iron fist and Un is a young, pudgy dork that comes across as more that a bit of a wuss.  He can manufacture a level of crisis and then, when nothing happens, tell his people he made us back down.  It's not like they'll know any different.
 
2013-04-03 02:37:23 AM

timujin: spamdog: For a moment I thought this was a nuclear facility. No such luck I suppose.

This is a pretty long string of provocations. Is Kim Jong-un just trying to prove that he's more hardcore than his dad?

Pretty much, yeah.  His dad held onto his country with an iron fist and Un is a young, pudgy dork that comes across as more that a bit of a wuss.  He can manufacture a level of crisis and then, when nothing happens, tell his people he made us back down.  It's not like they'll know any different.


In that case why stir up any real trouble to begin with? He could just BS the problem as well as the solution.
 
2013-04-03 02:40:21 AM

4seasons85!: camaroash: 4seasons85!: I am still not convinced that this is anything more than Un throwing a crying fit. But if this continues then things may get hairy soon.

Eveyone hits puberty eventually so technically yeah.

I think Un may be going through puberty. That would explain the mood swings. He's going through his rebellious phase, awe!


It's like the 12 year old who loses his cherry to the school skank in exchange for a candy bar or bag of Fritos and suddenly thinks he's hot shiat.

/ Everyone knows a shot of Tequila will give the same effect for a lot cheaper and with a little less residual shame.
 
2013-04-03 02:41:22 AM

mizchief: timujin: spamdog: For a moment I thought this was a nuclear facility. No such luck I suppose.

This is a pretty long string of provocations. Is Kim Jong-un just trying to prove that he's more hardcore than his dad?

Pretty much, yeah.  His dad held onto his country with an iron fist and Un is a young, pudgy dork that comes across as more that a bit of a wuss.  He can manufacture a level of crisis and then, when nothing happens, tell his people he made us back down.  It's not like they'll know any different.

In that case why stir up any real trouble to begin with? He could just BS the problem as well as the solution.


They get SOME outside news.
 
2013-04-03 02:44:01 AM

mizchief: timujin: spamdog: For a moment I thought this was a nuclear facility. No such luck I suppose.

This is a pretty long string of provocations. Is Kim Jong-un just trying to prove that he's more hardcore than his dad?

Pretty much, yeah.  His dad held onto his country with an iron fist and Un is a young, pudgy dork that comes across as more that a bit of a wuss.  He can manufacture a level of crisis and then, when nothing happens, tell his people he made us back down.  It's not like they'll know any different.

In that case why stir up any real trouble to begin with? He could just BS the problem as well as the solution.


Why not? It's not like anyone is going to launch a preemptive strike against him, the sanctions are already crippling and the worst the U.N. is going to do is send yet another strongly worded letter.  He's a child who likes to kick ant hills.
 
2013-04-03 02:47:05 AM
Short of the Fed printing dollars, can there be anything more politically stupid? Except most United States sheep won't notice until a few years out.

I'll bet most of you don't even know what I'm talking about.
 
2013-04-03 02:50:58 AM

bmihura: Short of the Fed printing dollars, can there be anything more politically stupid? Except most United States sheep won't notice until a few years out.

I'll bet most of you don't even know what I'm talking about.


I'll bet you don't even know what you're talking about.
 
2013-04-03 02:54:09 AM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: bluorangefyre: OK explain this in simple terms:  WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad?  Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?

This would not be a boots-on-the-ground war, at least not many American boots.  Our air superiority would wipe out all of their command-and-control on day one, then the SK army goes in to maintain order.  Very few American lives at risk.


Lose a few more words of that plan and it can be sent out on Twitter. There's a desk in a future Bush administration with your name on it!
 
2013-04-03 02:56:35 AM

BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.


I am one of those people and had just commented on it earlier today. I am officially concerned at this point. I've just looked at this article and I only skimmed it. It didn't look as though they'd kidnapped anyone so that's good.
 
2013-04-03 03:02:29 AM

Triumph: On a side note, if Un is an absolute monarch who inherited ruling the country from dad (who inherited it from his dad), how come the media bends over backwards not to call him a king? Are they afraid he'll give kings a bad name?


The difference between a monarch and a dictator is that in a monarchy the head of state is personally the sovereign. In the words of Louis XIV, "I am the state."
The dictator, by contrast, usually controls a government that is notionally a republic or at least has some form of constitution, or sovereignty is invested in a particular political party, even though the dictator has all the real power.

North Korea is, organizationally speaking, a communist republic and the Kims serve as president-for-life. I think this is all mixed up with some perverse version of traditional Asian ancestor-worship and extreme state xenophobia that casts the Kim family as protectors of Korean cultural purity, or something. In order to be a king, Lil'Kim would have to abolish the state constitution (yes, the Norks have one) and seize power directly in his own name.
 
2013-04-03 03:03:23 AM

doglover: mizchief: timujin: spamdog: For a moment I thought this was a nuclear facility. No such luck I suppose.

This is a pretty long string of provocations. Is Kim Jong-un just trying to prove that he's more hardcore than his dad?

Pretty much, yeah.  His dad held onto his country with an iron fist and Un is a young, pudgy dork that comes across as more that a bit of a wuss.  He can manufacture a level of crisis and then, when nothing happens, tell his people he made us back down.  It's not like they'll know any different.

In that case why stir up any real trouble to begin with? He could just BS the problem as well as the solution.

They get SOME outside news.


This is sounding like "Game of Thrones."  Except Joffrey isn't pudgy.
 
2013-04-03 03:06:56 AM

transplendent: The US has to be at war somewhere in order to prop up the economy. After all, we have a half million active duty military personnel, and we can't just start folding those folks into the economy back home, can we? Better to take on Best Korea than Pakistan, amirite?!


"We have always been at war with Eastasia"....or something like that.

Nasty gin and cigarettes for all the Proles!!!
 
2013-04-03 03:07:58 AM

powhound: For those who are saying a war with NK will be over and done within x amount of days....how many wars play out like that? Our military is already stretched. I don't see how you could open up a 3rd front with what we have, guys serving how many rotations to patrol the deserts of Afghanistan? Then what, a draft?  Seriously, we would be in up to our armpits if NK goes south.


Well for one, I imagine that we would be at war with them only because the war between SK and NK went hot again. Thus our role would be mostly just crush the military and then let SK deal with the nation building. We may support rebuilding, we may even foot part of the bill, but the situation is much different in the Korean peninsula. We don't care about militants or extremists, we care about removing the existential threat to whatever would be left of SamsungSeoul.
 
2013-04-03 03:09:41 AM
Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: North Korea is, organizationally speaking, a communist republic and the Kims serve as president-for-life

And in actual fact, the position of General Secretary or whatever the official title of Dear Leader is, at this point is probably just a figurehead that serves to legitimize a military junta that actually runs the country's day-to-day affairs. I doubt KJU has any real authority over anyone beyond his housekeeping staff.
 
2013-04-03 03:11:55 AM

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Every time I hear on the news, the crisis has hit a crescendo ... Then even more from NK.

I think our estimates are incorrect. He's quite childish, selfish, very young, pissed off , powerful and determined to lash out...with nuclear weapons. A madman.

I think we are going to have to fight NK.

It's getting worse, not better.

And this is just the stuff we know about so we can sleep at night.


Someone pointed out to me, earlier today, that NK has China as an ally whilst Iran and Syria have Russia as an ally and that while the situation in NK has been escalating there has been little reporting from MSM concerning Iran or Syria as of late. I believe their point was that it was a matter of what wasn't being said, what the distraction is meant for, or the likes.

I don't ascribe anything to this theory or question, meaning that's not enough for me to conclude that this is a conspiracy or the likes, but it was interesting enough to warrant passing along.
 
2013-04-03 03:13:52 AM
I think what really happened is that Blizzard isn't allowing activations for Heart of the Swarm in NK and so he's pissed he can't play the new Starcraft 2 game.
 
2013-04-03 03:17:45 AM

meat0918: jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked.  Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.


I've been saying that since the start. About the only way Kim can stop being Son of Dear Leader AND still keep his fat head on his mushy neck AND not have to worry about any prison time anywhere in the Far East is to lose a war to America.

As it stands, Kim Jong-Un is not personally responsible for any of the myriad atrocities Daddy Dearest committed; but he IS under the thumbs of a whole lot of guys who are (the generals and career pols who Daddy put in power). If Kim tries to undo the sins of the former regime and repudiate Juche, the generals can easily arrange for him to have a tragic accident, a lavish state funeral, and replace him with some handy puppet (Kim has two other legitimate brothers, and who knows how many bastard Kims are waiting in the wings). OTOH, if the generals get too uppity, Kim can threaten them with The Hague's courts--but to do that, he'd have to lose a war.

Kim may be a fat retarded mushroom; but he did go to school in Switzerland, he has to know there is no way in hell he can survive a war even with S. Korea and Japan, much less China or America. And he'd probably just as soon enjoy the pleasures of Western life first hand, as have them imported like Daddy Dearest did. But, he was obviously pretty heavily indoctrinated during the last ten years; and who knows, he may even like his people (stranger things have happened to a dictator). Best solution: Lose a war from a position of strength.

His generals have all grown up with Kim Jong-Il (and maybe even the REAL Kim, Kim Il-Sung), and probably believe all the saber-rattling crap. So they go along with the okey-doke, and start their war with South Korea. When it's obvious they're going to lose badly, Kim starts negotiations with the US. He gives up all his generals for trial for various crimes against humanity, agrees to a genuine peace with S. Korea, and opens the border, in exchange for keeping his fat head above his neck. Now he's safe from the Juche generals, the North Koreans get to eat again for the first time in 50 years, China is out of the loop without having to confront America across the 38th parallel, and the only real problem becomes how do we get all the land mines out of the DMZ.

Kim has to at least try to appease his generals if he wants to stay alive, hence the war talk. But it can't be coincidence that he actually allowed an American into his office a week before all this nonsense started, either. Crazy like a fox, is what I'm thinking.
 
2013-04-03 03:17:58 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Triumph: On a side note, if Un is an absolute monarch who inherited ruling the country from dad (who inherited it from his dad), how come the media bends over backwards not to call him a king? Are they afraid he'll give kings a bad name?

The difference between a monarch and a dictator is that in a monarchy the head of state is personally the sovereign. In the words of Louis XIV, "I am the state."
The dictator, by contrast, usually controls a government that is notionally a republic or at least has some form of constitution, or sovereignty is invested in a particular political party, even though the dictator has all the real power.

North Korea is, organizationally speaking, a communist republic and the Kims serve as president-for-life. I think this is all mixed up with some perverse version of traditional Asian ancestor-worship and extreme state xenophobia that casts the Kim family as protectors of Korean cultural purity, or something. In order to be a king, Lil'Kim would have to abolish the state constitution (yes, the Norks have one) and seize power directly in his own name.


Can't kingdoms have constitutions? Jordan has one, I believe.
 
2013-04-03 03:21:00 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Bith Set Me Up: red5ish: Where does he get his hair cut? WTF?
[img109.imageshack.us image 626x800]
That is not a good look.

Since when have dictators ever had good hairstyles?

Stalin always looked pretty good in photos/sculptures/paintings, probably because anyone who made him look bad ended up in a gulag.


Stalin looked like a hipster in his younger years. Lemme see if I can find a picture for you.

www.pbs.org

If you'd like to see more:

GIS Link with safe mode turned off so may be NSFW I suppose
 
2013-04-03 03:27:24 AM

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Doglover:

I don't know. What I do know is that photo. That photo is as powerful as the Vietnam photos of the officer pulling the trigger and the girl that had the skin falling off of her... Or the Nazi concentration camp photos in WWII.

This is the photo to show America that there is a humanitarian reason to end the status quo in NK to justify action. Not only does NK try to bully the United States, NK bullies their own children.

The world should speak to NK in a united voice. Now. Right the fark now.


How about the U.S. make sure its own aren't dying of starvation first?

/just a thought
 
2013-04-03 03:28:12 AM

Amos Quito: [img.auctiva.com image 400x248]


Over hill over dale we will hit the dusty trail
As the Kaesongs go rolling along
Up and down, in and out, Countermarch and right about,
And our Kaesongs go rolling along
For it's hi-hi-hee in the Field Artillery, Shout out the number loud and strong
Till our final ride, It will always be our pride
To keep those Kaesongs a rolling along


Is that sung to the tune of You're a Grand Old Flag? I like some march music. And big band. It's good music to nod out to. ;)
 
2013-04-03 03:31:42 AM

2wolves: yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Doglover:

I don't know. What I do know is that photo. That photo is as powerful as the Vietnam photos of the officer pulling the trigger and the girl that had the skin falling off of her... Or the Nazi concentration camp photos in WWII.

This is the photo to show America that there is a humanitarian reason to end the status quo in NK to justify action. Not only does NK try to bully the United States, NK bullies their own children.

The world should speak to NK in a united voice. Now. Right the fark now.

How about the U.S. make sure its own aren't dying of starvation first?

/just a thought


That's not possible without as many wars as possible to keep the economy from tanking. So, they are.
 
2013-04-03 03:32:45 AM
The KCNA said this morning that Kim Jong Un is to issue a "final order," to end North Korea's "long-standing history of showdown with the U.S."

"The aggressors and provocateurs will face a disgraceful ruin in the final battle [for reunification] to be started soon, and the great Korean nation will greet the bright day of national reunification,"

LINK
 
2013-04-03 03:39:16 AM
So how long until Li'l Kim and the Stooges fire upon themselves, blame Wurst Korea and launch a 'counter' offensive?
 
2013-04-03 03:40:37 AM

Triumph: Can't kingdoms have constitutions? Jordan has one, I believe.


Constitutional monarchies are kind of a weird situation. Usually in a constitutional monarchy, state sovereignty is still enshrined in the position of the crown, but actual administrative authority is given to a parliamentary-type government. In the past, constitutional monarchies gave the sovereign a lot more executive power and the constitution basically served as a popular brake on royal excess, forming a contract between the sovereign and his subjects. I think there are a couple of countries where the monarchy has been stripped of its sovereign powers, so technically those states would be republics and the monarch would only hold a ceremonial title.

Essentially in the constitutional monarchy, the monarch continues to "be" the state, but the right to rule derives from the authority of the constitution and/or the consent of the people, rather than divine right/right of conquest. At least that's how I understand it.

In any case, the current North Korean constitution doesn't invest sovereignty in a single person, so it would still have to be abolished/rewritten for KJU to be a proper monarch.
 
2013-04-03 03:44:22 AM
800 South Koreans are currently trapped at the factory. SK working on military contingency plans to get them out if necessary.

This is now an international hostage crisis. Un could literally go from "tubby annoyance" to full-blown mad man tomorrow.
 
2013-04-03 03:51:39 AM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: 800 South Koreans are currently trapped at the factory. SK working on military contingency plans to get them out if necessary.

This is now an international hostage crisis. Un could literally go from "tubby annoyance" to full-blown mad man tomorrow.


Citation, please.  All I'm seeing is that South Koreans aren't allowed IN.
 
2013-04-03 03:52:12 AM
Who are these idiots who decided to stay? I wonder if the word "human shield" means anything to them.
 
2013-04-03 04:01:54 AM
Anyone think there's an off-chance that they used some of those undiscovered tunnels we suspect to exist to cart a few of Dear Eater's Illustrious Kaboom Machines through and position someplace under Seoul as a fail-deadly?

Not that I'm suggesting that I think so, but I'm entertaining the thought.
 
2013-04-03 04:02:34 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Now That's What I Call a Taco!: 800 South Koreans are currently trapped at the factory. SK working on military contingency plans to get them out if necessary.

This is now an international hostage crisis. Un could literally go from "tubby annoyance" to full-blown mad man tomorrow.

Citation, please.  All I'm seeing is that South Koreans aren't allowed IN.


Same here.
 
2013-04-03 04:03:34 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Now That's What I Call a Taco!: 800 South Koreans are currently trapped at the factory. SK working on military contingency plans to get them out if necessary.

This is now an international hostage crisis. Un could literally go from "tubby annoyance" to full-blown mad man tomorrow.

Citation, please.  All I'm seeing is that South Koreans aren't allowed IN.


It was a rumor, but has been debunked.
 
2013-04-03 04:06:28 AM

digistil: BarkingUnicorn: Now That's What I Call a Taco!: 800 South Koreans are currently trapped at the factory. SK working on military contingency plans to get them out if necessary.

This is now an international hostage crisis. Un could literally go from "tubby annoyance" to full-blown mad man tomorrow.

Citation, please.  All I'm seeing is that South Koreans aren't allowed IN.

It was a rumor, but has been debunked.


Damn you, Obama!
 
2013-04-03 04:15:12 AM

js34603: valar_morghulis: YOU PAY NOW

What happened to you valar? You used to be cool.


VALAR STILL COOL!

YOU PAY LATER!
 
2013-04-03 04:20:24 AM

BarkingUnicorn: digistil: BarkingUnicorn: Now That's What I Call a Taco!: 800 South Koreans are currently trapped at the factory. SK working on military contingency plans to get them out if necessary.

This is now an international hostage crisis. Un could literally go from "tubby annoyance" to full-blown mad man tomorrow.

Citation, please.  All I'm seeing is that South Koreans aren't allowed IN.

It was a rumor, but has been debunked.

Damn you, Obama!


Funny enough, the rumor was mostly being spread on Twitter with the hashtag #tcot
 
2013-04-03 04:20:53 AM
SEOUL, April 3 (Yonhap) -- Seoul's defense chief said Wednesday the military is considering all available options, including possible military action, to ensure the safety of the hundreds of South Koreans who remain in the North's border town of Kaesong after the communist state cut off access to a joint industrial complex there.
Early Wednesday, Pyongyang banned South Korean workers from entering the inter-Korean industrial park in Kaesong, only allowing South Koreans currently staying in the border town to return home.
 
2013-04-03 04:29:10 AM

ontariolightning: SEOUL, April 3 (Yonhap) -- Seoul's defense chief said Wednesday the military is considering all available options, including possible military action, to ensure the safety of the hundreds of South Koreans who remain in the North's border town of Kaesong after the communist state cut off access to a joint industrial complex there.
Early Wednesday, Pyongyang banned South Korean workers from entering the inter-Korean industrial park in Kaesong, only allowing South Koreans currently staying in the border town to return home.


If that is factual and they choose that option, this will get grim quickly.
 
2013-04-03 05:37:21 AM
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-03 05:41:25 AM

Owangotang: I had a brother at Kaesong
Fighting off them Viet-cong
They're still there, he's all gone


Damn you, beat me to it
 
2013-04-03 05:56:29 AM
Triumph:

Can't kingdoms have constitutions? Jordan has one, I believe.

So does Japan, Canada, Australia, the UK (sort of) and a ton of others. There's a lot more monarchies around than you'd think
 
2013-04-03 06:04:41 AM

Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing  the currency it was generating, and the business.   When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.


HAHA! That's as likely to happen as Americans rising up against Jesus.  Ain't gonna happen.
 
2013-04-03 06:09:37 AM

Satanic_Hamster: CthulhuCalling: Isn't the Aegis carried on cruisers and not destroyers?

On both Arleigh Burke class destroyers and Ticonderoga class cruisers.   Should be noted that not all Arleigh Burke and Ticonderogas have Aegis.


All Arleigh Burkes AND all of the Ticonderoga Class cruisers have Aegis. The superstructure and electrical systems of both classes of ship are built around the radar array. It's just a question of which version of Aegis is installed. The Cruisers have the more powerful platform. The Destroyers tend to have the more up-to-date block upgrades.

Not all of the Ticonderoga class cruisers were built with the Vertical Launch System (VLS). Those that weren't have since been retired. The Navy actually refers to the remaining cruisers as CG-52 (Bunker Hill) class. That may be what people are confusing the issue with.
 
2013-04-03 06:12:05 AM
www.abc.net.au
My uncle killed thousands of Chinese. They would just keep marching on their machine gun positions.
The dead would be stacked 6' high at some points. But at night the Chinese would move in and take the dead away.
 
2013-04-03 06:16:58 AM

ImpendingCynic: Benevolent Misanthrope: Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.

Operation Desert Storm? When you can make your enemy surrender to the media, I think you probably win.


Let's also not forget Grenada and Panama. Get in, test out our new toys, GTFO.
 
2013-04-03 06:36:36 AM
 
2013-04-03 06:48:04 AM
I'm getting tired of the media's war-boner. Best Korea has a giant temper tantrum every three years or so and threatens to turn the imperialist dogs into charcoal, and then relent after the imperialists give them some pittance of aid (which they surely spin as tribute). Imagine if CNN didn't bother to carry all the "COULD IT BE WAR??" "WHY IS EVERYONE SCARED OF THE NORKS?" "LET'S LOOK AT WHAT TWITTER SAYS!" stories.
 
2013-04-03 07:07:28 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Satanic_Hamster:

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles


You know, I have this mental image of McCain batting down missiles with his hands. And its awesome.
 
2013-04-03 07:21:11 AM

MindStalker: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Satanic_Hamster:

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles

You know, I have this mental image of McCain batting down missiles with his hands. And its awesome.

 
2013-04-03 07:22:20 AM
Okay. For all you landlubbers out there, one more time; Aegis is a radar system. It's carried by cruisers and destroyers.  The USS John McCain is a Arleigh Burke class destroyer.  They carry about 60-70 missles , SAMs, SSMs, etc. One Burke could pretty much remodel Pyoyang, or end their navy, or cripple their AF.  Before Lunch.
 
2013-04-03 07:26:03 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.


Korea: Tie . . .only on the grounds we didn't want to escalate to WW III, which is what winning would have required due to Chinese intervention.

Vietnam:  Loss. . .only on the grounds that we didn't want to escalate to WW III, which is what winning would have required due to Soviet intervention.  The entire Southeast Asia scenario in the late 60's and early '70's was a geopolitical mess.

Grenada: Overwhelming US win.

Panama: Overwhelming US win.

First Gulf War: Overwhelming US win.  Iraq was the 4th largest army in the world, after an air war lasting less than a month, and a ground war of less than 100 hours they were totally routed and broken.

Iraq: US win.  Overwhelming military win in the initial phase.  Occupation was difficult, but we pulled it out with the "surge".  What else could we do?  Occupy them forever until they were our BFF's?  The war itself was a mistake, but it would be a lie to say we lost it.

Afghanistan: In progress, but US is winning.  Same as Iraq, initial overwhelming US military win.  Long, drawn out occupation.  Lot of problems with Pakistan being very two-faced towards us, lot of trouble getting the locals on our side, but over time we've come to largely be seen as the lesser of two evils by many/most of the Afghanis (we are foreign invaders, but the Taliban are even worse, so they want the Taliban dealt with and us gone).  We're just trying to make sure the Taliban don't immediately reconquer the country when we leave.

Note that we're really good at winning outright shooting wars.  We have NEVER lost a straight-out no-holds-barred shooting war.  We only lose if we're holding back because we don't want to escalate.  Also, occupation is helluva hard for a modern army because unless you're willing to commit atrocities and war crimes it's very hard to get the locals on your side and it can take a long time.

With Best Korea, we've got South Korea on our side to help.  In a Second Korean War, it's a pretty safe bet that South Koreans would be doing a LOT of the postwar occupation work for us, which takes a lot of pressure off us.
 
2013-04-03 07:35:21 AM

UnspokenVoice: Amos Quito: [img.auctiva.com image 400x248]


Over hill over dale we will hit the dusty trail
As the Kaesongs go rolling along
Up and down, in and out, Countermarch and right about,
And our Kaesongs go rolling along
For it's hi-hi-hee in the Field Artillery, Shout out the number loud and strong
Till our final ride, It will always be our pride
To keep those Kaesongs a rolling along

Is that sung to the tune of You're a Grand Old Flag? I like some march music. And big band. It's good music to nod out to. ;)


It's actually sung to the tune of the old GI Joe Commercial ;)

Gi Joe
GI Joe
Fighting man from head to toe
On the land on the sea in the aiiiiiir


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBtPmuTrtAk">https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=kBtPmuTrtAk

"Grand old Flag" I recall was a beer commercial in the 1960s
 
2013-04-03 07:46:15 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.

Yeah, this.  The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal.  They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard.  But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.


War is a dirty business that should be avoided if possible, but, if it can't be avoided then fark this clean, half-ass shiat.
I'm generally opposed to wars, but if you're going to have one then you need to go in it to win.
 
2013-04-03 08:00:05 AM

mr intrepid: Okay. For all you landlubbers out there, one more time; Aegis is a radar system. It's carried by cruisers and destroyers.  The USS John McCain is a Arleigh Burke class destroyer.  They carry about 60-70 missles , SAMs, SSMs, etc. One Burke could pretty much remodel Pyoyang, or end their navy, or cripple their AF.  Before Lunch.


I thought it was a mythological shield.
 
2013-04-03 08:07:36 AM

Triumph: The KCNA said this morning that Kim Jong Un is to issue a "final order," to end North Korea's "long-standing history of showdown with the U.S."

"The aggressors and provocateurs will face a disgraceful ruin in the final battle [for reunification] to be started soon, and the great Korean nation will greet the bright day of national reunification,"
LINK


Considering the fact that NK is being the aggressor in this situation, those may turn out to be prophetic words.
 
2013-04-03 08:09:01 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.

Yeah, this.  The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal.  They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard.  But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.


Actually, 'since WWII', we soundly kicked NK's ass, and without even a full-bore war effort.

It was CHINA we had trouble with over there.  That's the wild card now, imho.
 
2013-04-03 08:09:53 AM

What in The: Un, don't make us send Bill Clinton over there. Again. You know what happened last time.


He'll bone a short, plump brunette...named Kim?

/eeewww
 
2013-04-03 08:19:33 AM
Quick, to the Rodman mobile!  There's work to be done!
 
2013-04-03 08:21:15 AM

awalkingecho: Anyone think there's an off-chance that they used some of those undiscovered tunnels we suspect to exist to cart a few of Dear Eater's Illustrious Kaboom Machines through and position someplace under Seoul as a fail-deadly?

Not that I'm suggesting that I think so, but I'm entertaining the thought.


I'd put it at 5% or so...very low probability, but not impossible, and not low enough to ignore completely.  Kind of like the "put a nuke on a boat" option.

SK has to monitor for NK incursion tunnels anyway, for conventional assaults, so worrying about nukes in them isn't much of an added burden, I'd think.
 
2013-04-03 08:22:25 AM

Silverstaff: Korea: Tie . . .only on the grounds we didn't want to escalate to WW III, which is what winning would have required due to Chinese intervention.


Actually, I put Korea in the "Win" category.

Why?

Because at the end of the day, we prevented the North from taking over the entire peninsula, and forced them to accept pretty much the pre-war border.

That doesn't sound like a tie to me.  That sounds more like a "You tried to take over the whole thing, and you *FAILED*".
 
2013-04-03 08:29:28 AM

Asa Phelps: An attack from the DPRK would hurt, and be expensive to clean up.

But it would also essentially signal the end of the DPRK.

What good is a standing army of 1.5 million men without trucks to transport or supply them, let alone supplies to load onto those truck to feed them?

One carefully placed FAE would put an end to any morale that north korean foot soldiers have.

And then south korea and china will have to deal with an unbelievable influx of refugees.


"Walk south, shoot anything that moves, and take the food the capitalist oppressors stole from you."

And morale is a fickle thing...SOUTH Korea might break under a sufficiently large human-wave type attack, if it gets enough traction, or assassination teams decapitate enough of the government...allied strategy revolves around containing an NK push, and then winning in the counter-attack.

Defense-in-depth is a fine idea, but there's not all that much depth between Seoul and the DMZ.

The point is, you just don't know until the bullets actually start flying.
 
2013-04-03 08:32:54 AM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: bluorangefyre: OK explain this in simple terms:  WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad?  Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?

This would not be a boots-on-the-ground war, at least not many American boots.  Our air superiority would wipe out all of their command-and-control on day one, then the SK army goes in to maintain order.  Very few American lives at risk.


That's the plan.

Problem is, it doesn't take all that much command-and-control to say "march south, stop when you hit ocean, and we'll shoot you for treason if you retreat."
 
2013-04-03 08:36:11 AM

PunGent: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: bluorangefyre: OK explain this in simple terms:  WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad?  Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?

This would not be a boots-on-the-ground war, at least not many American boots.  Our air superiority would wipe out all of their command-and-control on day one, then the SK army goes in to maintain order.  Very few American lives at risk.

That's the plan.

Problem is, it doesn't take all that much command-and-control to say "march south, stop when you hit ocean, and we'll shoot you for treason if you retreat."


At that point, you're not dealing with a coherent military structure, but essentially independent armed mobs.  Something like that can be defeated in detail.
 
2013-04-03 08:40:03 AM

Gyrfalcon: meat0918: jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked.  Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.

I've been saying that since the start. About the only way Kim can stop being Son of Dear Leader AND still keep his fat head on his mushy neck AND not have to worry about any prison time anywhere in the Far East is to lose a war to America.

As it stands, Kim Jong-Un is not personally responsible for any of the myriad atrocities Daddy Dearest committed; but he IS under the thumbs of a whole lot of guys who are (the generals and career pols who Daddy put in power). If Kim tries to undo the sins of the former regime and repudiate Juche, the generals can easily arrange for him to have a tragic accident, a lavish state funeral, and replace him with some handy puppet (Kim has two other legitimate brothers, and who knows how many bastard Kims are waiting in the wings). OTOH, if the generals get too uppity, Kim can threaten them with The Hague's courts--but to do that, he'd have to lose a war.

Kim may be a fat retarded mushroom; but he did go to school in Switzerland, he has to know there is no way in hell he can survive a war even with S. Korea and Japan, much less China or America. ...


I would hope so...but I've met some truly abysmally ignorant folks who'd been to good schools, and had the advantage of international travel.  It didn't help.

Let's just say it's possible Kim didn't get in on his own merits :)

I think it was Horace who said 'men cross the seas, but do not change their natures'.
 
2013-04-03 08:40:10 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Korea?
Vietnam?
Somalia?
Iraq?
Afghanistan?

I didn't say we NEVER win (you could bring up Grenada, too, that hard-fought battle against a seemingly invincible enemy).  I said we aren't known for it.


Yeah, but a conflict with North Korea would, at least initially, be state-on-state, military-on-military, which we are EXCEEDINGLY good at. So long as we leave it to the Koreans and the Chinese to handle the aftermath on the ground, and limit our involvement to protecting our allies and ourselves, then I'm confident the US military could utterly destory the North Korean military.
 
2013-04-03 08:41:44 AM

2wolves: yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Doglover:

I don't know. What I do know is that photo. That photo is as powerful as the Vietnam photos of the officer pulling the trigger and the girl that had the skin falling off of her... Or the Nazi concentration camp photos in WWII.

This is the photo to show America that there is a humanitarian reason to end the status quo in NK to justify action. Not only does NK try to bully the United States, NK bullies their own children.

The world should speak to NK in a united voice. Now. Right the fark now.

How about the U.S. make sure its own aren't dying of starvation first?

/just a thought


???

Did ANYONE, aside from a stranded hiker or two, actually starve to death here in the last year?
 
2013-04-03 08:49:37 AM

dittybopper: PunGent: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: bluorangefyre: OK explain this in simple terms:  WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad?  Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?

This would not be a boots-on-the-ground war, at least not many American boots.  Our air superiority would wipe out all of their command-and-control on day one, then the SK army goes in to maintain order.  Very few American lives at risk.

That's the plan.

Problem is, it doesn't take all that much command-and-control to say "march south, stop when you hit ocean, and we'll shoot you for treason if you retreat."

At that point, you're not dealing with a coherent military structure, but essentially independent armed mobs.  Something like that can be defeated in detail.


Absolutely.  But a million or so guys is a LOT of 'detail'.

It's the old Soviet strategy...quantity has a quality all it's own.

Yes, we could, and probably would win, but I think it could well be MUCH more costly than some of the Pollyanna scenarios I see thrown around here.

To be clear, IF the balloon goes up, I'd LOVE to be wrong.  Best case, a few days of fighting, then the NKs say "screw this" and start killing their own officers, then marching north to shove a bayonet up Kim's ass.  Followed by happy peaceful reunification for all.

Unfortunately, I think the outcome will be...less salubrious.
 
2013-04-03 08:50:44 AM
I keep hearing this brought up: "KJU went to school in Switzerland, so he probably knows what's really up."

We don't know that. We don't know anything about him. It's quite possible for the son of a paranoid dictator to have an extremely sheltered, controlled experience at a secluded private Swiss boarding school where he was probably constantly watched by NK agents. We have no idea what, if any, media or Western ideas he was exposed do.  No one has come out and given an interview and said, "yeah I went to school with him, and he was a pretty cool bloke and we'd take the train to Amsterdam on the weekends and drop acid."
 
2013-04-03 08:51:46 AM
Those were not my words... They got mixed in with doglover's comment.
 
2013-04-03 08:52:07 AM
What I hope someone in NK realizes, before a lot of innocent people get killed, is while their ability to wage war has increased incrementally since 1950, ours has increased exponentially. This wouldn't be a counterinsurgency brush war, this would be a force on force repulsion of a mechanized assault, something we've been practicing for the last 60 years

sensor fuzed weapon, one B1 can carry 30 of these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5-OH2ZGXec

M-134 minigun, good luck with those "human wave" attacks
upload.wikimedia.org

www.airforceworld.com

static4.businessinsider.com
 
2013-04-03 08:54:41 AM
NK will never get investor capital again if they use this as leverage. This move will seal their eventual fate.
 
2013-04-03 09:11:02 AM

Evil Twin Skippy: All Arleigh Burkes AND all of the Ticonderoga Class cruisers have Aegis. The superstructure and electrical systems of both classes of ship are built around the radar array. It's just a question of which version of Aegis is installed. The Cruisers have the more powerful platform. The Destroyers tend to have the more up-to-date block upgrades.

Not all of the Ticonderoga class cruisers were built with the Vertical Launch System (VLS). Those that weren't have since been retired. The Navy actually refers to the remaining cruisers as CG-52 (Bunker Hill) class. That may be what people are confusing the issue with.


Doh.  Forgot that those were retired/scrapped a few years back.
 
2013-04-03 09:12:57 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Essentially in the constitutional monarchy, the monarch continues to "be" the state, but the right to rule derives from the authority of the constitution and/or the consent of the people, rather than divine right/right of conquest.

3.bp.blogspot.com

 
2013-04-03 09:19:18 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Benevolent Misanthrope: ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.

Yeah, this.  The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal.  They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard.  But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.

SK would take a whole bunch of hurt, then rally and clean the NK clock.

Just like the last time?


Benevolent Misanthrope: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Benevolent Misanthrope: ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.

Yeah, this.  The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal.  They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard.  But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.

SK would take a whole bunch of hurt, then rally and clean the NK clock.

Just like the last time?


No.

History - it's interesting.
 
2013-04-03 09:22:25 AM
function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}davidphogan:davidphogan: Does China really want to risk triggering WW3, or do they want to send us a bill for helping them "nation build" North Korea?

Wait...  This might not be a bad idea.  The US gets cheap Chinese labor, the Chinese get employment without building more empty skyscrapers, the South Koreans get a kind-of reunified peninsula (minus all those the Chinese need to borrow), North Korea gets rebuilt from scratch, and if we really want to we can tack on a good 5-10 year war with China to thin out the ranks of healthy young males on both sides and get the economy out of this funk.

Since I'm over 30, I'm not sure if this is a terrible idea or a good one.



You know, this is probably the first time I heard that point of view discussed outside of me bringing it up. Somehow for us >30 males that would be a sure-fire way to have steady, high-pay employment if it happened. But do we really want to risk the lives of the late-commers to our generation and most of the next just so we could be 'set' so to speak?

At first, I was all for a bit of war-mongering. As a species we can't seem to want to kill ourselves off, so I say let us. But then you think of all the peace-time achievements and how we proliferate through the better years that makes you judge the constant war chants in a different light. It would be swell if we could all get along, but as they say on Fark;- get off my lawn! If we can't get past something so benign and utter threats for the least of personal inconvenience, why should it be different on word-stage?

Hmpf, now I don't know what's best again, thanks bud!

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2013-04-03 09:28:10 AM

PunGent: That's the plan.

Problem is, it doesn't take all that much command-and-control to say "march south, stop when you hit ocean, and we'll shoot you for treason if you retreat."


I don't think that's the plan. I think the plan would be for a UN charter allowing the obliteration of NK forces, mostly through US air superiority and Naval forces, with SK along for the ride and then China mobilizing forces to come in under UN Charter to 'peace keep' the situation.

Reunification to follow in 30 years.
 
2013-04-03 09:29:12 AM

PunGent: dittybopper: PunGent: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: bluorangefyre: OK explain this in simple terms:  WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad?  Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?

This would not be a boots-on-the-ground war, at least not many American boots.  Our air superiority would wipe out all of their command-and-control on day one, then the SK army goes in to maintain order.  Very few American lives at risk.

That's the plan.

Problem is, it doesn't take all that much command-and-control to say "march south, stop when you hit ocean, and we'll shoot you for treason if you retreat."

At that point, you're not dealing with a coherent military structure, but essentially independent armed mobs.  Something like that can be defeated in detail.

Absolutely.  But a million or so guys is a LOT of 'detail'.

It's the old Soviet strategy...quantity has a quality all it's own.

Yes, we could, and probably would win, but I think it could well be MUCH more costly than some of the Pollyanna scenarios I see thrown around here.

To be clear, IF the balloon goes up, I'd LOVE to be wrong.  Best case, a few days of fighting, then the NKs say "screw this" and start killing their own officers, then marching north to shove a bayonet up Kim's ass.  Followed by happy peaceful reunification for all.

Unfortunately, I think the outcome will be...less salubrious.


Well, I don't think it would be "best case", but nor do I think it will be worse.  I can't really see the PRC siding with the DPRK if KJU really starts feeling his oats.  In fact, I can easily imagine a scenario where if the KPA goes south over the DMZ, the PLA will go south over the Yalu.

Even if that doesn't happen, the type of war the KPA *MUST* fight because of their equipment, training, doctrine, logistics, and the economic circumstances on the peninsula is precisely the type of war we've been training for for the last 60 or 70 years.  We have a rough parity of forces quantitatively, if you add in the ROK and US troops with available, but we've got an overwhelming qualitative advantage.

A while back I took a look at the much bally-hooed amount of artillery the DPRK has on the border.   It's not as bad as the bare numbers might suggest.

The only way they could significantly hamper US/ROK operations is through guerrilla warfare, but that is destined to fail, and fail badly if they depend on it, because the South Koreans aren't going to help them, and will rat them out at the earliest opportunity.   Just ask Che Guevara how hard it is to mount a guerrilla campaign unsupported by the locals.  In fact, that's what lead to the downfall of Al Qaeda in Iraq:  We didn't really defeat them in a military sense, we co-opted the local leaders against them.

That would happen immediately in South Korea, though, instead of a few years down the road:  They know what economic ruin would come from being ruled by Pyongyang, and they know what the political oppression is like across the border.  KPA guerrilla units will have to avoid all contact with locals, because otherwise the locals will call up the local equivalent of 911 on their cell phones and rat out the KPA units immediately.
 
2013-04-03 09:29:31 AM
The Great Successor has a perfect plan. He will ratchet up the rhetoric until the U.S. feels it has no choice but to go in and kick his ass. At that point the DPRK will surrender and ask for billions in foreign aid to rebuild their country. And they will get it.
 
2013-04-03 09:33:36 AM

Deep Contact: [www.abc.net.au image 700x467]
My uncle killed thousands of Chinese. They would just keep marching on their machine gun positions.
The dead would be stacked 6' high at some points. But at night the Chinese would move in and take the dead away.



Seems like that would have been the time to launch the assault.
 
2013-04-03 09:36:19 AM
rlv.zcache.com
 
2013-04-03 09:38:01 AM
Wtf's with the JavaScript?
 
2013-04-03 09:38:28 AM

dittybopper: The only way they could significantly hamper US/ROK operations is through guerrilla warfare, but that is destined to fail, and fail badly if they depend on it, because the South Koreans aren't going to help them, and will rat them out at the earliest opportunity. Just ask Che Guevara how hard it is to mount a guerrilla campaign unsupported by the locals. In fact, that's what lead to the downfall of Al Qaeda in Iraq: We didn't really defeat them in a military sense, we co-opted the local leaders against them.


I tend to think that this is one of those rare moments where whoever steps in and flattens NK military would actually be welcomed as liberators by the civilian population.
 
2013-04-03 09:48:53 AM

BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?
I think the game just got interesting.


When they actually do make moves to permanently close it down, that would be a bad sign.  Being a dick at the border crossing for a short period of time, meh.  If they rip the road up so ROK and American armor can't advance up it, I'd start to worry.  Some Nork holding a stop sign, not so much.

I'd imagine South Korean companies are losing X dollars per day since they can't make widgets in Kaesong.   So the North will shut the complex down and try to get Y dollars in food aid as a bribe to reopen the plant.  Or else try to get some of the companies to deposit money into some Swiss bank account slush fund for the North, supposedly the North really needs hard foreign currency these days.
 
2013-04-03 10:03:00 AM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: dittybopper: The only way they could significantly hamper US/ROK operations is through guerrilla warfare, but that is destined to fail, and fail badly if they depend on it, because the South Koreans aren't going to help them, and will rat them out at the earliest opportunity. Just ask Che Guevara how hard it is to mount a guerrilla campaign unsupported by the locals. In fact, that's what lead to the downfall of Al Qaeda in Iraq: We didn't really defeat them in a military sense, we co-opted the local leaders against them.

I tend to think that this is one of those rare moments where whoever steps in and flattens NK military would actually be welcomed as liberators by the civilian population.


Well, I was thinking of it in terms of DPRK units south of the DMZ.

As for being welcomed as liberators?  I'm less optimistic than you.  It's almost a cliche that you don't intervene between a man beating his wife because they will *BOTH* be against you.

Consider this:  You've been raised to believe X.  It was taught in all the schools, it was in all the media you ever saw, and it was repeated by everyone around you.  No alternatives were ever mentioned except in the context of being evil.  You fear anything else, to the point where it's a reflex to believe X.

Then, all of a sudden, after a short but bloody war that killed friends and relatives, you're now told that X is a complete lie by strangers who don't look or talk like you.  You don't see any real evidence of this, though:  You still live in the same valley as before, tending the same fields.  What are you going to believe?
 
2013-04-03 10:18:49 AM

dittybopper: Then, all of a sudden, after a short but bloody war that killed friends and relatives, you're now told that X is a complete lie by strangers who don't look or talk like you. You don't see any real evidence of this, though: You still live in the same valley as before, tending the same fields. What are you going to believe?


Except this time the one telling you something different comes bearing gifts of food, something you haven't seen in regular supply for 30 years.

The dinner table has a funny way of changing peoples hearts and minds
 
2013-04-03 10:40:38 AM
PunGent:

It's the old Soviet strategy...quantity has a quality all it's own.

Well there was a little more to the Soviet strategy than pure numbers. They understood that "quality" does not necessarily mean "sophisticated." Quality to Soviets was "easily mass produced", "field serviceable", and "simple to operate."
 
2013-04-03 10:48:28 AM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: dittybopper: Then, all of a sudden, after a short but bloody war that killed friends and relatives, you're now told that X is a complete lie by strangers who don't look or talk like you. You don't see any real evidence of this, though: You still live in the same valley as before, tending the same fields. What are you going to believe?

Except this time the one telling you something different comes bearing gifts of food, something you haven't seen in regular supply for 30 years.

The dinner table has a funny way of changing peoples hearts and minds


Except it won't be immediate for most.  Even when it does arrive, it will be viewed with suspicion.  Imperialist plot to poison Koreans and wipe out the ideology of Juche.

You just don't get how we are viewed over there.   People run away when they see someone who looks American because they are the bad guys in all of their films.
 
2013-04-03 10:51:14 AM
Benevolent Misanthrope:

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.


Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we beat the shiat out of the Koreans (but a million Chinamen turned us back), we won the Gulf War, curb stomped the Afgahnies and Iraqis, and have toppled a shiat ton of leaderships in the MiddleEast, Latin America and South America.

Who exactly have we lost to?
 
2013-04-03 11:26:40 AM

Owangotang: I had a brother at Kaesong
Fighting off them Viet-cong
They're still there, he's all gone


That might actually work better with the original name. Khe Sanh actually rhymes with "Gone" better.
 
2013-04-03 11:57:06 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=4f1e0899533 f 7680e78d03281fe18baf&wit_id=4f1e0899533f7680e78d03281fe18baf-2-1 Nort h Korea work Prison Testimony. Not for the faint of heart.


That was disturbing to read, to say the least. I can't even imagine surviving a place like that.
 
2013-04-03 12:14:59 PM

dittybopper: Except it won't be immediate for most. Even when it does arrive, it will be viewed with suspicion. Imperialist plot to poison Koreans and wipe out the ideology of Juche.

You just don't get how we are viewed over there. People run away when they see someone who looks American because they are the bad guys in all of their films.


Faster than you think, and the north is not as hermetically sealed as you might think. There are strangle holds regarding information on the center of the small nation, but in the hinterlands and borders along SK and China the information is start to flow pretty freely.
 
2013-04-03 12:15:28 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: Benevolent Misanthrope:

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.


Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we beat the shiat out of the Koreans (but a million Chinamen turned us back), we won the Gulf War, curb stomped the Afgahnies and Iraqis, and have toppled a shiat ton of leaderships in the MiddleEast, Latin America and South America.

Who exactly have we lost to?


images.sodahead.com
 
2013-04-03 12:33:21 PM
An actual armored assault on the south by the north, is there a word stronger than annihilation? We were able to drive the north korean army within miles of the Chinese border, and ground the Chinese army into a standstill on the 38th parallel.

The Chinese don't appear to in any mood to help this time, and our technology has improved, oh just a tad, since 1953. Annihilation isn't really a strong enough word for what would to a DPRK armored assault on the south.

A combined-arms attack on an enemy that has complete control of the air, when said enemy has things like A-10 warthogs, Apaches, AC130s, and heavy bombers armed with GPS guided 2000 pound bombs, and anti-armor cluster bombs isn't a "combined arms attack" it's mass suicide.


Heck even by 1953 the idea of human wave attacks against troops dug in with kit like the Quad 50 kinda lost their allure.
 
2013-04-03 12:52:02 PM
www.buzzpatrol.com
 
2013-04-03 12:54:15 PM

croesius: HellRaisingHoosier: Benevolent Misanthrope:

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen?  Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning.  My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone.  Again.


Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we beat the shiat out of the Koreans (but a million Chinamen turned us back), we won the Gulf War, curb stomped the Afgahnies and Iraqis, and have toppled a shiat ton of leaderships in the MiddleEast, Latin America and South America.

Who exactly have we lost to?

[images.sodahead.com image 350x272]


What's funny? I can only think of Vietnam being a loss on a large scale war. We've lost some small scale insurgency stuff (think Operation Eagle Claw), but we tend to win when we commit large amounts of resources and loosen up ROEs.

Winning wars is a matter of logistics overcoming attrition rates. And the US has the best logistics out there and our equipment has pretty low attrition rates in battle.
 
2013-04-03 01:08:33 PM

hardinparamedic: You know what would be ironic?

If the John McCain docked in Vietnam.


For some reason I thought you had to be dead to get a ship named after you.
 
2013-04-03 01:26:17 PM

mr intrepid: Okay. For all you landlubbers out there, one more time; Aegis is a radar system. It's carried by cruisers and destroyers.  The USS John McCain is a Arleigh Burke class destroyer.  They carry about 60-70 missles , SAMs, SSMs, etc. One Burke could pretty much remodel Pyoyang, or end their navy, or cripple their AF.  Before Lunch.


blow it out your ass you pretentious piece of shiat. nobody cares but you...
 
2013-04-03 01:30:02 PM

dittybopper: In fact, I can easily imagine a scenario where if the KPA goes south over the DMZ, the PLA will go south over the Yalu.


God... what a thing to see. This whole situation has the potential to get very interesting, very quickly. Interesting in a bad way.
 
2013-04-03 01:32:42 PM

hutchkc: hardinparamedic: You know what would be ironic?

If the John McCain docked in Vietnam.

For some reason I thought you had to be dead to get a ship named after you.


It's named after his dad.
 
2013-04-03 01:35:08 PM

Fggin Bizzy: hutchkc: hardinparamedic: You know what would be ironic?

If the John McCain docked in Vietnam.

For some reason I thought you had to be dead to get a ship named after you.

It's named after his dad.


Or possibly his grandfather. Both of them were four-star admirals, and as of yesterday, both of them were still dead.
 
2013-04-03 01:40:01 PM

PunGent: Defense-in-depth is a fine idea, but there's not all that much depth between Seoul and the DMZ.


An aside: NATO had the same problem in hypothetical Soviet-bloc attacks on West Germany. The strategy was officially "defense-in-depth", but that meant giving up huge amounts of West Germany to gain time and maneuvering room, which understandably put our West German allies in a difficult spot politically. The unofficial but real defense plan was to defend-in-depth in EAST Germany. To put a fine point on it: NATO intended to invade East Germany before the Soviet Bloc started their assault. This meant our forces needed to be on a hair trigger, and nothing helps bring about unintentional wars like lots of armed people being really jumpy.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

If anyone still here can help me on this - Aegis defends the ship itself from anti-ship missiles, but the article seems to imply it can defend against the strategic medium-to-long range ballistic missiles that North Korea is threatening everyone with. Is there some new anti-ICBM/anti-ballistic missile capability of Aegis that I'm unaware of?  Thanks!
 
2013-04-03 01:45:14 PM

StopLurkListen: Is there some new anti-ICBM/anti-ballistic missile capability of Aegis that I'm unaware of?


Probably? I don't know for sure, but those Aegis-class destroyers continually amaze me. They don't look like much, unlike an aircraft carrier, but damn...
 
2013-04-03 01:49:22 PM
So, haven't they about run the limits of crazy short of actually starting shooting? What next, they can't last long without income.
 
2013-04-03 01:52:39 PM
The barely-restrained glee with which some people post pictures of our military hardware and/or describe how many North Koreans we could easily mow down with it is a little bit disturbing.
 
2013-04-03 02:11:12 PM

StopLurkListen: If anyone still here can help me on this - Aegis defends the ship itself from anti-ship missiles, but the article seems to imply it can defend against the strategic medium-to-long range ballistic missiles that North Korea is threatening everyone with. Is there some new anti-ICBM/anti-ballistic missile capability of Aegis that I'm unaware of? Thanks!


Aegis is a radar/fire control system.
 
2013-04-03 02:35:33 PM

StopLurkListen: If anyone still here can help me on this - Aegis defends the ship itself from anti-ship missiles, but the article seems to imply it can defend against the strategic medium-to-long range ballistic missiles that North Korea is threatening everyone with. Is there some new anti-ICBM/anti-ballistic missile capability of Aegis that I'm unaware of?  Thanks!


Yes, there is.
 
2013-04-03 02:37:35 PM

Gawdzila: The barely-restrained glee with which some people post pictures of our military hardware and/or describe how many North Koreans we could easily mow down with it is a little bit disturbing.


Yeah. What's a few million peasant deaths among friends, though right? USA! USA! USA!

North Korea is a whole country filled with people like this little gal. That's who we'll be beating up on. Their leaders talk big and are irritating as hell, but if it comes back to open war there are going to be a lot of bodies of short, malnourished Norks with ribcages easily visible through their skin strewn about the place.

The current situation sucks, and any resolution to it will also suck.
 
2013-04-03 02:48:02 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: Gawdzila: North Korea is a whole country filled with people like this little gal.


NK is filled with stinky Tennessee girls? Lol, wut? (Wrong link??)
 
2013-04-03 03:44:41 PM

dforkus: An actual armored assault on the south by the north, is there a word stronger than annihilation? We were able to drive the north korean army within miles of the Chinese border, and ground the Chinese army into a standstill on the 38th parallel.

The Chinese don't appear to in any mood to help this time, and our technology has improved, oh just a tad, since 1953. Annihilation isn't really a strong enough word for what would to a DPRK armored assault on the south.

A combined-arms attack on an enemy that has complete control of the air, when said enemy has things like A-10 warthogs, Apaches, AC130s, and heavy bombers armed with GPS guided 2000 pound bombs, and anti-armor cluster bombs isn't a "combined arms attack" it's mass suicide.


Heck even by 1953 the idea of human wave attacks against troops dug in with kit like the Quad 50 kinda lost their allure.


I agree with that assessment assuming you have enough assets to do the job.  It isn't clear that the US/SK has enough assets deployed to stop the NK forces before they reach Seoul and can inflict catastrophic damage.  Assuming every bomb dropped, every missile hits, we may not have enough fired quick enough to stop the forces before they reach and destroy significant South Korean assets. Almost every scenario has the NK army being destroyed given enough time.  The problem is that victory costs South Korea their capital and large amounts of destruction in the surrounding areas which is a massive cost coupled with the required economic support that North Korea will require with the defeat and collapse.  Defeating North Korea isn't the real issue, it is the costs involved with doing so.
 
2013-04-03 04:09:19 PM

Daedalus27: I agree with that assessment assuming you have enough assets to do the job.  It isn't clear that the US/SK has enough assets deployed to stop the NK forces before they reach Seoul and can inflict catastrophic damage.  Assuming every bomb dropped, every missile hits, we may not have enough fired quick enough to stop the forces before they reach and destroy significant South Korean assets. Almost every scenario has the NK army being destroyed given enough time.  The problem is that victory costs South Korea their capital and large amounts of destruction in the surrounding areas which is a massive cost coupled with the required economic support that North Korea will require with the defeat and collapse.  Defeating North Korea isn't the real issue, it is the costs involved with doing so.


You're looking at it from the wrong perspective:  No one thinks the US or South Korea is going to invade the North, starting a war.  If a war starts, it will be because of the North.

So the cost is irrelevant.
 
2013-04-03 04:49:08 PM

dittybopper: StopLurkListen: If anyone still here can help me on this - Aegis defends the ship itself from anti-ship missiles, but the article seems to imply it can defend against the strategic medium-to-long range ballistic missiles that North Korea is threatening everyone with. Is there some new anti-ICBM/anti-ballistic missile capability of Aegis that I'm unaware of?  Thanks!

Yes, there is.


Holy Cow. Thanks!  My knowledge of Aegis is outdated. (from the USS Stark era.)
 
2013-04-03 05:19:25 PM
North Korea thread?
321delish.files.wordpress.com
DRINK!!!
 
2013-04-03 05:22:57 PM

Klom Dark: Fuggin Bizzy: Gawdzila: North Korea is a whole country filled with people like this little gal.

NK is filled with stinky Tennessee girls? Lol, wut? (Wrong link??)


Poor, backwards, uneducated, desperate, ignorant, starving people. What, I gotta draw you a picture? Work with me here, FFS.
 
2013-04-03 05:34:41 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: "Grand old Flag" I recall was a beer commercial in the 1960s


Neat. Here's a link to Grand Old Flag, I never heard it as a beer commercial though?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFV_tmTcU0Q
 
2013-04-03 05:50:54 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: Fggin Bizzy: hutchkc: hardinparamedic: You know what would be ironic?

If the John McCain docked in Vietnam.

For some reason I thought you had to be dead to get a ship named after you.

It's named after his dad.

Or possibly his grandfather. Both of them were four-star admirals, and as of yesterday, both of them were still dead.


Actually, according to Wiki it's named after BOTH of them.

/still dead today as well as far as I know, however it is tomorrow over where the events are taking place so things may have changed on that front too...
 
2013-04-03 06:09:22 PM

dittybopper: Daedalus27: I agree with that assessment assuming you have enough assets to do the job.  It isn't clear that the US/SK has enough assets deployed to stop the NK forces before they reach Seoul and can inflict catastrophic damage.  Assuming every bomb dropped, every missile hits, we may not have enough fired quick enough to stop the forces before they reach and destroy significant South Korean assets. Almost every scenario has the NK army being destroyed given enough time.  The problem is that victory costs South Korea their capital and large amounts of destruction in the surrounding areas which is a massive cost coupled with the required economic support that North Korea will require with the defeat and collapse.  Defeating North Korea isn't the real issue, it is the costs involved with doing so.

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective:  No one thinks the US or South Korea is going to invade the North, starting a war.  If a war starts, it will be because of the North.

So the cost is irrelevant.


No, just like the fears during the Cold War, it will a mistake and response that gets us into it.  North launches a limited attack of some kind.  There is a limited retaliation that is perceived as a greater attack triggeirng  escalation and war.  Its the slow crawl into a massive engagement.

For example, a North Korean sub torpedos a US/SK ship (again).  This time, there are assets in the area and the sub is sunk (as is a proper act of self defense).  This is precieved by NK as an escalation (since last time SK just absorbed the attack).  This triggers an limited artillery strike by NK in an area that leads to counterbattery fire in response (again in self defense).  However this tit for tat response leads to ever increasing responses and soon the front opens up and the war kicks off.
 
2013-04-03 06:19:08 PM
StopLurkListen:

If anyone still here can help me on this - Aegis defends the ship itself from anti-ship missiles, but the article seems to imply it can defend against the strategic medium-to-long range ballistic missiles that North Korea is threatening everyone with. Is there some new anti-ICBM/anti-ballistic missile capability of Aegis that I'm unaware of?  Thanks!

There are a few destroyers out there now that have the upgrade, USS Cole and Stout and a few others I'm sure, but probably in the next 5-10 years, they all will have it.  Upgrade takes about six months, and a few more if you include the schooling they have to send everyone to, as well as testing phase after the upgrade.  Last deployment I did before retiring was BMD (Ballistic Missile Defense) off the coast of Israel.  Wasn't an AEGIS tech, but dealt with a lot of them and they were all mainly indifferent to the upgrades, because there are still a lot of problems with keeping SPY working all the time, not to mention being in certain areas (the Gulf, and North Africa) where there is a lot of sand and dust in the air plays absolute hell on the radar returns.  A couple of cruisers on the west coast have the upgrade, but don't really remember which ones they are.
 
2013-04-03 06:32:37 PM
Wow... transparently the SM-3 missiles are capable of intercepting targets all the way up to low earth orbit, and just one destroyer can carry 90 of them...
 
2013-04-03 06:33:16 PM
***apparently***
 
2013-04-03 07:57:12 PM

digistil: BarkingUnicorn: digistil: BarkingUnicorn: Now That's What I Call a Taco!: 800 South Koreans are currently trapped at the factory. SK working on military contingency plans to get them out if necessary.

This is now an international hostage crisis. Un could literally go from "tubby annoyance" to full-blown mad man tomorrow.

Citation, please.  All I'm seeing is that South Koreans aren't allowed IN.

It was a rumor, but has been debunked.

Damn you, Obama!

Funny enough, the rumor was mostly being spread on Twitter with the hashtag #tcot


Is "Tcot" his Kenyan birth name?
 
2013-04-04 12:30:41 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Asa Phelps: An attack from the DPRK would hurt, and be expensive to clean up.

But it would also essentially signal the end of the DPRK.

What good is a standing army of 1.5 million men without trucks to transport or supply them, let alone supplies to load onto those truck to feed them?

One carefully placed FAE would put an end to any morale that north korean foot soldiers have.

And then south korea and china will have to deal with an unbelievable influx of refugees.

Field Applications Engineer?
Fundamental Attribution Error?

Oh, I got it!  Fuerza Aérea Ecuatoriana, the Ecuadorian Air Force!


fuel-air explosive. aka thermobaric weapon.

think big tank of fuel and two charges.

First charge disperses the fuel which is aerosolized over a large area. Think multiple football fields.

Second charge detonates the fuel.

If you're lucky, the shock wave kills you. If you're unlucky, it merely gelatinizes your internal organs and you die horribly, or you breathe the fuel before or during detonation.

A column of 100,000 soldiers marching south is 100,000 sitting ducks, and a nice big FAE can kill 70% of them in a single drop.
 
2013-04-04 08:47:33 PM

Deep Contact: [www.abc.net.au image 700x467]
My uncle killed thousands of Chinese. They would just keep marching on their machine gun positions.
The dead would be stacked 6' high at some points. But at night the Chinese would move in and take the dead away.


Seems like at some point they would think of sneaking around at night as a way to conduct the attack instead of the clean up.
 
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