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(The New York Times)   I don't have any kids. But I'm a condescending urban douchebag who writes for the New York Times, so I know more about how you should be raising your kids than you do   ( nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Honey Boo Boo, helicopter parenting, The Modern Parents, chicken fingers, ultimatum, Super Bowl rings, anthems  
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23359 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Apr 2013 at 8:26 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-02 03:32:56 AM  

archichris: Pincy: baska: I raised mine, so excuse me while I laugh at the butthurt breeders.  Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.  So, here's mine about the parents who raise their kids like they'll break.  Model respectful behavior, demonstrate the art of choice, but put the hammer down when necessary.  Who's running the show?  There's a reason you're the adult.

/every time I hear some muppet say 'good job' because their kid managed not to break his face it's like biting tinfoil

OMFG THIS!!!

Your kids do not need to be praised for every single thing they do. They need to learn that it is expected of them to act civilized and they aren't going to get a cookie for merely doing so.

You sound fat. Good job you!


Touched a nerve apparently.
 
2013-04-02 03:35:51 AM  

Pincy: archichris: Pincy: baska: I raised mine, so excuse me while I laugh at the butthurt breeders.  Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.  So, here's mine about the parents who raise their kids like they'll break.  Model respectful behavior, demonstrate the art of choice, but put the hammer down when necessary.  Who's running the show?  There's a reason you're the adult.

/every time I hear some muppet say 'good job' because their kid managed not to break his face it's like biting tinfoil

OMFG THIS!!!

Your kids do not need to be praised for every single thing they do. They need to learn that it is expected of them to act civilized and they aren't going to get a cookie for merely doing so.

You sound fat. Good job you!

Touched a nerve apparently.


Modelling a desired behavior is a great teaching tool.
So is praising/rewarding a desired behavior.
Punishing undesired behavior works well too.

These are all tools that parents have at their disposal and use. If it bothers you to be present when a parent is using any one of them, you should probably avoid places where people are with their children.
 
2013-04-02 03:39:07 AM  

Surpheon: the ha ha guy: Gyrfalcon: As to the anecdotes of kids running amok like hijackers in training up and down the aisles, kicking seatbacks as if they were en route to NFL kickers' training camp and the rest, well, perhaps you fragile grownup snowflakes should spring for business class if you are experiencing such horrors on a routine basis.

So yes, I do think that one instance of running amok and causing physical pain to others is equivalent to another.

Have you ever been on a plane? Maybe that's why you missed the sheer absurdity of that hyperbole. I can't even imagine how kids could physically run up and down the aisle kicking seats, never mind how they could cause the slightest pain doing it or avoid the wrath of a stewardess (who knows full well how easily she can have the parent arrested if they don't follow orders to control their kid).



Kids can also run down aisles and kick seats in a restaurant or theater, yet a few in this thread have defended exactly that.
 
2013-04-02 03:52:09 AM  
Kids can also run down aisles and kick seats in a restaurant or theater, yet a few in this thread have defended exactly that.

Actually no, no one has. Only one other person has even mentioned a theater and the thirty odd mentions of kick problems have all been clearly and explicitly dealing with planes. Go to bed, you're imagining things.
 
2013-04-02 03:55:41 AM  

ourbigdumbmouth: If you don't have kids, you can't comment on parenting.

If you didn't serve in the armed forces, you can't have an opinion on the war.

This is fun...


When the people commenting on the war are actually trying to tell soldiers how to point a rifle, you'll have a point.

Besides the one on the top of your head, of course.
 
2013-04-02 04:08:48 AM  

Mimic_Octopus: it has long been obvious that with little exception, those stupid enough  to get pregnant without planning to and stupid enough to birth an unplanned child are by far the least likely to actually be good parents.


I'm somewhat offended by that generalization. Sometimes it's not stupidity that winds you up getting pregnant. My sister and I were both conceived while my mother was on birth control, and we are the "abortion is not an option" people. So by your standards she should have just nipped it when her birth control failed rather than raise us and do the right thing?

And I'm another example. Twelve years of sexual activity. One marriage, actively trying to get pregnant, marriage ended, several years after, not even a scare. Come to find out that I can't even conceive. Not possible- blocked tubes, no ovulation.

And I'm pregnant currently. Medical miracle.

And it's not out of stupidity that I'm going to have her and raise her, it's out of love and want. So I know this is Fark and all, but there's several billion people on the planet, and you can't generalize people like that.

My thoughts on the article? Guy is right, he just went about it the wrong way. My kids aren't getting nineteen warnings, they get one or they get punished. They'll learn. That's how I was raised and I respect authority.

/still terrified of messing up
 
2013-04-02 04:10:41 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.


Yeah. I would pay good money to eat at a restaurant that bans children.
 
2013-04-02 04:11:56 AM  

Surpheon: Kids can also run down aisles and kick seats in a restaurant or theater, yet a few in this thread have defended exactly that.

Actually no, no one has. Only one other person has even mentioned a theater and the thirty odd mentions of kick problems have all been clearly and explicitly dealing with planes. Go to bed, you're imagining things.


Gyrfalcon: This is why people who lack kids shouldn't really be telling people with them how to raise their children. What you the childless see as a one-time awful display of revolting undisciplined behavior may or may not be anything unusual to the parent. Or may be a kid who is sick. Or may be a parent who is sick (life is fun when you can't afford day care). Or it may just be nap time; as any parent could tell you, kids go from calm & rational to cranky & impossible in about .25 seconds when nap time hits. But YOU didn't know that, did you, Mr. I-don't-have-kids?


"Undisciplined behavior" is not the same thing as crying.

lostcat: My father HATES kids who are not "controlled" by their parents. He will sit in a restaurant and loudly criticize parents whose kids are making "too much noise" or wandering around the restaurant (even if they are being quiet). And this isn't in fancy restaurants after 8:00pm. This is in family restaurants, like chain Mexican restaurants.


"Wandering around" is not the same thing as crying.


But what do I know? I'm just an evil childless person who will never know the kind of love it takes to say "you just beat up a cripple with a metal cane, good job".
 
2013-04-02 04:13:24 AM  

the ha ha guy: archichris: Since you have exactly zero authority over them the best thing you can do is remove it from your list of irritations.


Crying children is irritating, yes, but I've only encountered that a few times. Far more often, the "irritation" is theft, violence, etc, but only one parent I've seen actually took responsibility for their child without being compelled to do so by an employee or police officer.

Since I'm meant to ignore these "irritations", what do you suggest I do in order to ignore a child who steals my cane and hits me with it in the back of the leg, and the mother who defended it to the manager and insisted on letting the kid keep my cane?


Beat the parent and train the child.
 
2013-04-02 04:19:15 AM  

Aigoo: the ha ha guy: archichris: Since you have exactly zero authority over them the best thing you can do is remove it from your list of irritations.


Crying children is irritating, yes, but I've only encountered that a few times. Far more often, the "irritation" is theft, violence, etc, but only one parent I've seen actually took responsibility for their child without being compelled to do so by an employee or police officer.

Since I'm meant to ignore these "irritations", what do you suggest I do in order to ignore a child who steals my cane and hits me with it in the back of the leg, and the mother who defended it to the manager and insisted on letting the kid keep my cane?

Beat the parent and train the child.



While sitting in the floor waiting for an employee to bring a scooter? What am I gonna do, bleed on her?
 
2013-04-02 04:23:27 AM  

doglover: Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.

Yeah. I would pay good money to eat at a restaurant that bans children.


Go eat at a restaurant that doesn't have a kid friendly menu, or even kid- friendly food. There's NEVER a child under teen age in my favorite Thai restaurant, in my favorite pho place, in this awesome crepe place I discovered... Most parents won't take their kids to get prad-him-ma-pram at Chada. So if you eat somewhere with more culinary diversity, you're likely to enjoy peace and quiet. Just my $.02.
 
2013-04-02 04:35:48 AM  

Surpheon: Kids can also run down aisles and kick seats in a restaurant or theater, yet a few in this thread have defended exactly that.

Actually no, no one has. Only one other person has even mentioned a theater and the thirty odd mentions of kick problems have all been clearly and explicitly dealing with planes. Go to bed, you're imagining things.


Actually, I have had kids kick the hell out of my seat in theaters as well. And on trains. And in planes. My method of dealing with it (if the parents don't try first) is to turn to the parent and politely ask them to please ask their child to stop kicking my seat. If the kicking keeps up (and mind you, we're talking the kid's been kicking at the seat for a good while; not just moving or shifting and accidentally hits the seat back. It's deliberate and been consistent for at least 15-20 minutes before I say anything each time I have to turn around), I turn a second time to the parent and ask again, a little less politely. If I have to ask a third time, I tell the child directly to stop and that they won't be asked again. If so much as one more kick happens, I get an usher (if in a theater) and have them removed. If on a plane, I hit the call light and have the flight attendant deal with it (usually they threaten to get the captain at that point because they've seen or heard at least one of the polite requests already). If on a train, I get a conductor to deal with it. If mom and dad won't control the child, I let someone with authority handle both mom and child because the kid needs to know that there are adults in the world who will back up what they say they're going to do.

Kids need limits. And they will push and test until someone sets them. I've raised three--two girls and a boy--and not one of them was one I gave birth to. But I'm closer with them than they are to their own mothers because I set limits for them and expected them not to cross those limits. And I never once had to put my hands on the kids or crush their spirits, either. And yes, each kid was different and is different, and so different things worked with each one. But for the folks who mentioned leaving a shopping cart or turning around in the parking lot or eating dinner from a styrofoam container... been there, done that. And yes, it is very effective, even with a four year old. And you would be damn surprised how many older folks will just about fall over in shock to see someone under 40 pick a child up when he's in the middle of a temper tantrum, carry him outside, and say to his nine year old sister, "nope, we're leaving. We'll get groceries another time when your brother isn't screaming his head off because I won't give him a candy bar."

Yes, it really is about consideration for others sometimes, even when there are circumstances that make that 4 year old more prone to scream his head off over a candy bar, such as the fact that mom and dad have been deployed for all but two months of the past two years and he knows you better than his own mother. But all those other people in that store don't know that--nor can you honestly expect them to. The kid still needs consistent rules and discipline, whether it's his mother or his mother's best friend, that stability has to be there. So the consideration is not just for the people who can't tolerate a screaming kid or don't want to, but for the kids' well-being also. The article made a very good point when the author implied that the world doesn't give a fark if mommy thinks you're the best and smartest and deserve 99 chances, because your boss generally isn't going to give you more than one chance.
 
2013-04-02 04:39:03 AM  

the ha ha guy: Aigoo: the ha ha guy: archichris: Since you have exactly zero authority over them the best thing you can do is remove it from your list of irritations.


Crying children is irritating, yes, but I've only encountered that a few times. Far more often, the "irritation" is theft, violence, etc, but only one parent I've seen actually took responsibility for their child without being compelled to do so by an employee or police officer.

Since I'm meant to ignore these "irritations", what do you suggest I do in order to ignore a child who steals my cane and hits me with it in the back of the leg, and the mother who defended it to the manager and insisted on letting the kid keep my cane?

Beat the parent and train the child.


While sitting in the floor waiting for an employee to bring a scooter? What am I gonna do, bleed on her?


That's a general comment. Parents like that should be disciplined and their children trained/taught. A kid can't do anything other than what they're taught and if the parent is teaching them wrongly, you can't really blame the kid for being a little shiathead--they don't know any better.
 
2013-04-02 04:57:26 AM  
RenownedCurator:
About the airplane issue -- we take a lot of road trips, but if you've only got four days off for Thanksgiving and your family lives 2000 miles away, isn't in great health, and would like to see the kids before they're 18, sometimes you have to grit your teeth, pack 8,000 little toys and snacks, and do it. Not to mention that we also have family in Puerto Rico, and there's no car in the world that will drive you to San Juan from the mainland.

"I know a boat you can get on!"
"Bye-bye!"

/Original Broadway version
 
2013-04-02 05:07:47 AM  

kiwimoogle84: doglover: Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.

Yeah. I would pay good money to eat at a restaurant that bans children.

Go eat at a restaurant that doesn't have a kid friendly menu, or even kid- friendly food. There's NEVER a child under teen age in my favorite Thai restaurant, in my favorite pho place, in this awesome crepe place I discovered... Most parents won't take their kids to get prad-him-ma-pram at Chada. So if you eat somewhere with more culinary diversity, you're likely to enjoy peace and quiet. Just my $.02.


Sounds like you live in Whitesburgh.

Where I live, a Thai or Vietnamese place is exactly where you are going to have kids. Thai and Vietnamese kids. And our daughter, who loves pho and curry.

And we take her to "fancy" restaurants where they don't have kids menus. We've never ordered off a kids menu for her. We also know how to time things so that we can get in and out before she starts getting cranky and potentially disturbs other diners.
 
2013-04-02 05:18:03 AM  

Hoban Washburne: Osomatic: Well, just like some people are douchebags, some kids are douchebags, and 99.9% of the time that's because they have douchebag parents.  You don't notice the well-behaved kids. And for the terrible kids, me and you and everybody on Fark and Frank Bruni can offer all the good parenting advice in the world and it won't matter.  Bad people usually have bad kids.  It's not because nobody has ever told them a better way to do it.  It's because they themselves are not capable of being good parents.  There's not a lot to be done about it.

And I say this as someone who often feels like a terrible parent, and that I am utterly ruining my child.  But I do have a polite and generally well-behaved kid.  I'm not saying he's never thrown a tantrum, but he never got away with it for more than about a second in public (at home, meh, maybe we let it run its course).

Assuming your kid is being fed and not abused, it sounds like you're doing a perfectly good job as a parent.


That's what I keep telling myself.  Also, though, I often feel like maybe I just lucked out, that he's just a congenitally nice person.  It often seems that way.  He has no fear of walking up to strangers and talking to them as if they were nice people, and through his own Nibletty magic it turns out, almost every time, that they *are* nice people.  Mind you, I watch this and cringe and shrink and want to die and then... it turns out okay.  It's weird and I don't understand it, but I'm willing to accept that my kid is a far, far better person than I am.
 
2013-04-02 07:15:29 AM  

Phins: And you may be immune to your kid crying and screaming but you should still realize and understand that others aren't used to it.




#1 misconception in this thread. No parent is immune or oblivious to their child crying or screaming.

Odds are they're embarrassed as hell and trying their best to placate the child and/or finish what they're doing and vacate the area as quickly as possible.

Sometimes the best (and quickest and most effective) way of dealing with a tantrum is to not acknowledge it. Instead responding to the child rationally and (quickly) finishing what you need to do and leaving. Child needs to learn that a tantrum is not an effective or acceptable way of gaining control of their parents attention or getting what they want. When they realize that it is ineffective, they stop. Falling over yourself trying to shush the child not only reinforces the bad behavior, but often doesn't work anyway.
 
2013-04-02 07:25:07 AM  
Man lots of people really have opinions about everything, especially when they think they are right

But in the end who cares about other people.  Its obvious from these posts that most people are way to important not to comment when they think someone is doing something wrong, so fark em who gives a fark about them, that seems to be the gist of it, its the old piece of self importance most people have but in the end, if they never existed we would have never noticed

/uh oh i just hypocricied myself again
 
2013-04-02 07:36:10 AM  

TheOriginalEd: God I hate you people and your awful opinions.


These people are the results of parenting decisions you approve of...
 
2013-04-02 07:39:30 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.


And we're done.

/real-life father
//understands and is willing to convey the concept of "actions and consequences" to the shorties.
 
2013-04-02 08:03:12 AM  
1. People who don't have children don't know how to raise children

2. People who do have children don't know how to raise children

The very best you can hope for is a reasonably good knowledge of how to bring up one, or two, or however many you have, particular children. What works with your first may not work with your second.

However, it's possible to get some pretty big tips on what not to do by looking at other people's parenting and the results. As several posters have said, you just don't notice the nice kids, and you certainly can't tell what made them nice. Ineffective discipline and its direct consequences are much easier to spot.  In other words, it's rarely possible for an outsider to say with any accuracy "You should do that" but it's often possible for an outsider to say "You shouldn't do that".

Summary: bad parents and bad parenting are often obvious. Good parents and good parenting, almost by definition, are not.

Anyone here thinking of becoming parents? Buy the complete Calvin and Hobbes collection. Everything you need to know is in there. Seriously.
 
2013-04-02 08:26:56 AM  

kiwimoogle84: And I'm pregnant currently. Medical miracle.


Congrats to you and Mr Moogle
 
2013-04-02 08:34:15 AM  
I don't get all the hate.

This guy, who, even tho he doesn't have any kids.. is 100% correct.

Seems to me that subby, (and half the people in here for that matter) are those farking helicopter parents that I hate.

No.  Timmy is NOT special.  He's a farking kid.  Get over it.
 
2013-04-02 08:42:09 AM  
So what's their FARK ID? DNRTFA, does it mention it?
 
2013-04-02 08:46:55 AM  
Hah hah, all the bad parents are offended by this guy's advice.  It's kind of funny how this guy without children knows more about how to raise a decent human being than a lot of the so called parents on this forum.

I raised two kids from infant to adulthood.  They thrive on rules, they learn respect for others, they understand consequences without the need for drama, and are generally much happier when you are a parent first and a friend second.  As they grow older, you give them more and more responsibility and control over their situations, until they're fully functioning and independently thinking humans.  Now, I'm friends with them first and a parent second.

Have fun with the miserable lazy entitled sheep you're raising.
 
2013-04-02 09:19:08 AM  
We have a collage of our kids when they were babies on the wall.  When they were toddlers/kindergarten age, I put a picture of some random kid in one of the frames and told them that he was their older brother, but he wouldn't mind his parents so we had to send him away to break rocks.
 
2013-04-02 09:26:13 AM  
Only people with kids can criticize the child-rearing practices of others.

Because, you know, they can't like observe the results or anything.
 
2013-04-02 09:40:59 AM  

Hoban Washburne: kxs401: People without children are still affected by how you raise them, and are going to have opinions. We have an interest, because we have to share the world with your kids. Someday, they're going to be our fellow citizens, our coworkers, and possibly, our perpetrators. We really want you to do a good job.

EXACTLY.  It's not that I want to pick apart every little parenting decision you make, but if your kid is running around in a store and/or being just being a general little shiat, then I will judge you.  I don't hate kids.  Well behaved kids are great.


Parental Farkers who think the author just doesn't get it need to take a good look in the mirror. Please.
 
2013-04-02 09:43:29 AM  
I always love parents who get their back up when people (esp. non-parents) criticize their parenting. The reality is that these people will gladly take your praise when you complement their children for good behaviour (I actually got to do that in an up-scale restaurant this weekend). Sorry parents, if you want the glory, you have to eat the shiat too.
 
2013-04-02 09:47:54 AM  

MNguy: namegoeshere: Arthur Jumbles: namegoeshere: cptjeff: Mithiwithi: nd if an adult can't deal with a few screaming babies for a while

There's a difference between a screaming baby in an open space where people can leave and a baby screaming for 10 hours in a tightly packed tube with no possibility of escape.

It's incredibly annoying. If you cannot get your child to shut up, don't fly. I don't care how inconvenient it is for you- you don't get to make the lives of 150 other people a living hell. Short and quickly hushed outbursts won't piss too many people off. But when you let your little grub drone on like an air raid siren, it should go with the checked baggage or not at all.


Are you kidding me? Wow. It must be great to have a life that is so comfortable and easy that a child crying near you is "a living hell".

Maybe crying babies are like cilantro.... some people don't mind them much but for others their cry is like a knife through the skull. For me, the sound of a baby crying actually makes me feel pain, it is painful. Normally, it's not too much a problem because if a baby starts crying near me I just leave. But if I'm trapped on a plane with one it is like hell, the crying is like a knife, there's the hopeless feeling because you know you can't do anything to stop it from crying, and when it does stop you just spend the whole rest of the flight terrified that it's going to start up again.

I've got a great pair of headphones from Bose - the screaming just fades away into so much background noise. I highly recommend.

The kid's parents are passing them out to all the passengers?  Awesome!


No. there are foam earplugs for .99 for the people who are too cheap to buy headphones. But then you wouldn't be able to biatch nearly as much about how crying babies are ruining your life, so it's a trade-off, really.
 
2013-04-02 09:54:13 AM  

IsNoGood: Was not a problem in a old days, perhaps because nobody wanted to travel on a flight with a 3 months old,

The Fack is, you guys drag you shiat genetic off spring around and then Im to blame for the trouble, I say flights are to cheep
and food in restaurantes for kids the same price lets see how that will work out

like yesterday I was nearly killed by a baby tank driver by 2 hipsters who was sure it was my job to hold
the door in the bakery shop, so none of them had to bake eye contact with the GOLD fart ......

Only good thing is that so much shiate in the food that fewer and fewer of them are able to get kids.....


WTF did I just read...
 
2013-04-02 09:56:32 AM  
Thank God I have gotten advice from someone with no skin in the game. This would indicate that he knows a TON about parenting.

You praise them for every little thing because they're young, and it means something to them when they do what they're trying to accomplish, the level of quality doesn't matter as long as those random ovals they drew look like eggs to you.

You let them pick out their clothes to start teaching them what goes together and what doesn't. It's a long row to hoe, and you ned to start early. You also do it because it's an easy way to give them control in their own lives. Beside, what the fark does it matter to you?

Negotiation when they're crying? That's because not every instance of crying is because the child is misbehaving. Also, they aren't going to get beaten every time they fark up in the real world. Negotiation is going to happen, too, and they might as well learn how that works early on.

What this breaks down to is that despite all of the kids you get to lease, you don't understand the first thing about being a parent. You don't understand giving the kids their own chance to shape their lives, and you sure as shiat have no clue as to how intelligent kids are. You are writing them off as brainless meatbags, when they aren't. I'd even go so far as to say that my 4 year old is smarter than you...
 
2013-04-02 09:56:38 AM  
Lot of non-parents in this thread who know everything about proper parenting.

Lot of those people are going to get a major reality check someday when they are behind the wheel.  Your perspective changes a lot.

Are there shiatty parents?  Absolutely.  Lots of them.

All I'm saying is, it's really easy to judge.  It's much harder to do.

Pennsylvania Dutch Oven: The reality is that these people will gladly take your praise when you complement their children for good behaviour (I actually got to do that in an up-scale restaurant this weekend). Sorry parents, if you want the glory, you have to eat the shiat too.


See, here's the thing.  Most parents don't give a shiat about what strangers think one way or the other.  As I said, your perspective changes.  Concern number #1 is the health, safety, well-being, and instillation of knowledge and values to the child.  Whether or not random strangers are annoyed or pleased by your parenting methods moves way down your list of priorities.
 
2013-04-02 09:59:16 AM  

lostcat: There are three types of people in this thread:

1. People who aren't parents, but who think they could control a child at all times and keep it from annoying other adults (because to them, that's the sign of a good parent).

2. People who are parents and who have learned to crush their children's will in order to avoid being labelled a bad parent because the don't "have control over" their kids. These parents will go on to raise kids with all kinds of control issues.

3. People who are parents and who don't mind being given the evil eye by other adults occasionally, because the they don't hover over their kid 24/7 making sure that they are doing everything the way the adults around them want them to.


You forgot
4. People who aren't parents and who have enough basic human empathy, a working memory of their own childhoods & decent observational skills to give a wide latitude to those people who did decide to have kids. However, just because I haven't personally housed a child in my uterus doesn't render *all* my opinions null & void.
 
2013-04-02 09:59:32 AM  

Sensei Can You See: GAT_00: Most of the time, I really don't give a shiat about your kid.  But if they're being a screaming little shiat while I'm trying to eat, or running around a store while you ignore them, there it very much is my interest how you are raising your kid.

It's one thing to ignore them, and I agree with you on that point.

It's not always a simple issue, though. When my son was 3 months old I was flying to Portland from Chicago with him after a Christmas visit. To avoid him having any discomfort with his ears popping, I did what I always did: Started him on a bottle when we started taxiing. That way he would be swallowing when we took off.

But then they postponed takeoff. I stopped feeding him but when we actually took off about 20 minutes later, he didn't want any more formula. About 10 minutes later he started screaming bloody murder as the pressure changed.

He screamed and cried for about 20 minutes, then suddenly belched loudly and almost instantly fell asleep.

During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do? I wasn't ignoring him; I was comforting him and trying to get him to take some formula. But you can't spank a 3-month-old for bad behavior.


Not travel.
 
2013-04-02 10:12:43 AM  

cptjeff: namegoeshere: Surpheon: Sorta like how I can have an asthma attack if I'm on a plane with too many cats in the cabin

Is this a thing? Because I've flown with screamers and drunks and fatties and snort-laughers and perfumeatics and sweaty-smellies and overly-friendly-midwesterners but I don't think I've ever had a problem with too many cats in the cabin.

I'm imagining a snakes on a plane scenario with cats instead of snakes.

Somehow, it's not very scary.


I'M.SICK OF ALL THIS MUTHAFARKIN FUR ON THIS MUTHAFSRKIN PLANE!
 
2013-04-02 10:23:16 AM  
orbister:
Anyone here thinking of becoming parents? Buy the complete Calvin and Hobbes collection. Everything you need to know is in there. Seriously.

Heh, for a long time I've thought that if there's one book, song, movie, etc. from my childhood that I would want to expose my future children to it would be that.
 
2013-04-02 10:28:28 AM  

cs30109: Gig103: Sensei Can You See: During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do?

Ideally, you stay home with a 3 month old and tell your family to visit you.

The same thing can happen to a kid all the way through toddler ages.  If anything, having done it multiple times, very small babies are easier to handle on planes than toddlers.  What are you supposed to do, stay home for 3 years and never fly anywhere?  That's not a reasonable expectation.  Some of you people may just have to put up with an hour of crying on a flight every now and then.  It won't kill you.


Maybe won't kill ME.... But if I'm on the plane with your rotten crotch dropping screaming at the top of its lungs, YOUR life is in danger. I don't blame the kid. I blame you. And one murder on a plane of a self centered stupid parent should set a fine example for the rest of the country. It will definetly make the news. And serve as a warning. Shut your kid up, or some crazy SOB just might lose it and kill you.

/crazy people ride planes too, but draw much less attention....
 
2013-04-02 10:42:26 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: Milo Minderbinder: Nana's Vibrator: cptjeff: cs30109: What are you supposed to do, stay home for 3 years and never fly anywhere?

See, there are these things known as "cars". They are sized so one family unit can travel in them, making whatever noises they please, without disturbing other people.

You are expected to act appropriately to the setting. If you child is not capable of acting appropriately in that setting, you should not be bringing them into that setting. Inconvenient for you? Tough. You're the one who made the decision to have the kid.

And this is why most kids who fly do behave.  I warn my kids that people such as yourself are terrible people in that you condescend in an attempt to prove yourself to be better than a toddler.  And when my kids behave better than someone such as yourself, you are proven to be worse than a child.  We all remove our top hats and monocles and have a good laugh at your expense.  But alsa, as one of us checks our pocket watch, we notice it's time for tea.

I imagine your seven naked filthy house apes are shiating all over your trailer as you type half-witicisms on fark.

I'll let that ape comment go because I don't have a profile picture, ignorant f*ck.


Ok.... But are.there 7 of them?
 
2013-04-02 10:43:04 AM  

Ker_Thwap: I raised two kids from infant to adulthood. They thrive on rules, they learn respect for others, they understand consequences without the need for drama, and are generally much happier when you are a parent first and a friend second. As they grow older, you give them more and more responsibility and control over their situations, until they're fully functioning and independently thinking humans. Now, I'm friends with them first and a parent second.


The one thing I learned in philosophy class in college was that you can't be a parent and friend.  You need to be their parent.

/21 month old son
//thought I knew it all before him...
 
2013-04-02 10:59:49 AM  

Gyrfalcon: I've come to the conclusion that people who make these kinds of arguments (about how parents should raise their kids, how kids should behave, how teachers should teach/kids should learn) not only have forgotten how it was to be kids...they were never actually children themselves. They somehow leaped from infancy to adulthood without actually traversing the long agonizing road in between.


Close. It's because they never actually grew up.
 
2013-04-02 11:04:54 AM  

arghyematey: Bose noise canceling headphones are a godsend.

That is all.


They are also expensive, and an unnecessary purchase if people would control thier hellspawn.
 
2013-04-02 11:09:56 AM  

earthworm2.0: cs30109: Gig103: Sensei Can You See: During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do?

Ideally, you stay home with a 3 month old and tell your family to visit you.

The same thing can happen to a kid all the way through toddler ages.  If anything, having done it multiple times, very small babies are easier to handle on planes than toddlers.  What are you supposed to do, stay home for 3 years and never fly anywhere?  That's not a reasonable expectation.  Some of you people may just have to put up with an hour of crying on a flight every now and then.  It won't kill you.

Maybe won't kill ME.... But if I'm on the plane with your rotten crotch dropping screaming at the top of its lungs, YOUR life is in danger. I don't blame the kid. I blame you. And one murder on a plane of a self centered stupid parent should set a fine example for the rest of the country. It will definetly make the news. And serve as a warning. Shut your kid up, or some crazy SOB just might lose it and kill you.

/crazy people ride planes too, but draw much less attention....


If you're so delicate that a little noise sends you off the walls, maybe you should stay home where it's safe to write for Internet Tough Guy magazine in complete seclusion
 
2013-04-02 11:10:21 AM  

the ha ha guy: Gyrfalcon: As to the anecdotes of kids running amok like hijackers in training up and down the aisles, kicking seatbacks as if they were en route to NFL kickers' training camp and the rest, well, perhaps you fragile grownup snowflakes should spring for business class if you are experiencing such horrors on a routine basis.


Last year, some brat in a store yanked my cane out of my hand, hit me in the back of the legs, and ran off. When the manager tracked down the kid and his mother (I was sitting in the aisle waiting for another employee to bring a scooter), the mother told the manager "why should I care? It's my son's cane now".

So, should the parent be forced to take responsibility for teaching their kid not to commit assault against random people for no other reason than "that person has something I want"? Or was it my fault for not being a fragile grownup snowflake unable to handle a metal cane to the back of my legs?


I would have had 2 shallow graves to dig that day....
 
2013-04-02 11:33:32 AM  

Fano: RenownedCurator: Parents routinely surrender control when they shouldn't, replacing rules with requests, and children are expected to chart their own routes to good behavior, using the faulty GPS's of their flowering consciences, I suppose. Families are run as democracies. Parents forget: in the political realm, you don't get a say until you're 18. There's a reason for that.

That quote? Absolutely spot on. And I say that as a mother of three young children who have not always been angels in public. Kids are not born knowing how to be polite, accommodate other people, or generally be civilized. It's the parents' job to teach them, and if it means having to abandon a grocery cart to go home due to a tantrum, or walk out of a restaurant because a child couldn't stop shouting (both of these things happened exactly once) then that's what you do. I will say that I think it's easier to get spooked about disciplining children in public these days -- you never know when some busybody might decide that a swat on a toddler's bottom is child abuse and decide to take down your license number or start screaming at you. There are a considerable number of people who think that even time outs are wrong because they're shaming and socially isolating the child. Which is nuts, but there you are.

This is not to say that children don't get choices, but they should get smaller ones, which increase in importance as they get older and demonstrate their ability to handle them. They don't get to decide to eat Pop Tarts for breakfast, but they can choose the colour of plate they'll have their breakfast on. They don't get to run around screaming in a museum, but on a family vacation you can give them a choice of which museum they would like to see. In other words, not a democracy, but a benevolent dictatorship.

About the airplane issue -- we take a lot of road trips, but if you've only got four days off for Thanksgiving and your family lives 2000 miles away, isn't in great health, and would like to see the ...

I agree totally. I was gobsmacked by a friend the other day who was horrified that her 4 year old child didn't wear a jacket on a snowy day. Why? Because she asked the child if he wanted to put on his jacket to go outside. Being still at the age where saying "NO" is the default answer to everything except "do you want candy, he said no. AND SHE WENT WITH IT. It really would have been as easy as phrasing it "do you want to wear your red jacket or your blue jacket," or some variation thereof in which the child is "given a choice" but either choice is a desirable outcome. At an older age a child would get to learn the consequences of not wearing their coat, as the parent advised.

I also remember from my childhood that when I was misbehaving in public, my mother gave me a firm "do we have to go to the bathroom/outside" and when that event was triggered there was a clear line to either behave or face the consequences. Kids seem to deal best when the rules are clear, not endlessly negotiable, as kids given the chance are astonishingly good little lawyers, remembering every precedent for why they should be allowed to do something.


The kid is 4. They shouldn't get choices. There are parts of life that are considered constants. At the age of 4, the kid.is still being introduced to the constants. It's not do you want the red coat or the blue coat. It's "put your coat on." Doesn't matter the color. It matters that the kid is warm.

Parents are suppose to be god to kids. You don't give them options. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT. They look to the parent - what do I want? The kid learns the basics first. Coats are not optional. You eat what you are given, or you don't eat. Etc.

I hate this rediculous shiat- get to the counter at mickey ds, then ask the kid what it wants? THERE ARE 6 PEOPLE.BEHIND YOU WHO DO NOT HAVE 20 MINUTES FOR YOUR KID TO LEARN ABOUT INCONSEQUENTIAL DECISION MAKING. Oh, its so cute teehee. NO IT'S farkING NOT. If I want to watch a kid learn about counting change after a transaction, I have a kid of my own, or I borrow a friend's. Meanwhile, the world moves on but we are stuck in a traffic.jam behind a 4 year old who doesn't actually know the diffrence between a cheeseburger and chicken nuggets.

I avoided all that tug of war with a toddler crap by being decisive, and leading by example. Show the little dude how its done, they catch on to that, move on to the next lesson. Actual decision making comes later. The kids opinion becomes valued when it is old enough to be able to actually contribute.

My boy is 8 now, and he's a good kid. He's a good kid now because I didn't waste time haggling with him when he was a toddler. There is a heirarchy. He know where he stands.

/ all my hard work completely invalidated when he's with his grandparents.... I can only each generations below me, not above.
 
2013-04-02 11:34:01 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.


Oh I know what I should do, pop them on the arse and tell them to behave. That's what my parents did. Unfortunately, society has decided in many instances to call the government in and have a huge paperwork fiasco and potentially have my kids taken away and placed in foster care for such action. You know how bad foster care can be. You tell me how to avoid that in a self help book format and you'll make millions.
 
2013-04-02 11:38:40 AM  

Gyrfalcon: the ha ha guy: Gyrfalcon: As to the anecdotes of kids running amok like hijackers in training up and down the aisles, kicking seatbacks as if they were en route to NFL kickers' training camp and the rest, well, perhaps you fragile grownup snowflakes should spring for business class if you are experiencing such horrors on a routine basis.


Last year, some brat in a store yanked my cane out of my hand, hit me in the back of the legs, and ran off. When the manager tracked down the kid and his mother (I was sitting in the aisle waiting for another employee to bring a scooter), the mother told the manager "why should I care? It's my son's cane now".

So, should the parent be forced to take responsibility for teaching their kid not to commit assault against random people for no other reason than "that person has something I want"? Or was it my fault for not being a fragile grownup snowflake unable to handle a metal cane to the back of my legs?

Yes, indeed, those are exactly the same situation. Indeed, a bratty assaultive child who attacks you in a store and steals a personal possession is precisely the same as an unhappy infant in pain who is crying on board an airplane. They are, verily, identical situations, and you should handle them in precisely the same way. Clearly there is not the slightest bit of difference between the two situations, or the two children in question, and they should in fact be dealt with in exactly the same way.

Because clearly you are too retarded an adult to be allowed out in public without a minimum of two caregivers to explain the difference to you; and probably you need at least three more to help you keep your lungs inflated and your legs moving independently of one another when you travel outside to yell at clouds.


This guy thinks the kid.should get to keep the cane, apparently. Lol
 
2013-04-02 11:40:21 AM  
You have to be willing to give up a whole lot of your life to be a parent, but it's incredibly rewarding.  The problem I see is parents who never wanted to be parents. They're just not willing to put the effort in, and won't be swayed by strangers giving them the death glare.

I'll often smile at a stressed out parent in the grocery store who has a crying infant, infants are great, they only cry for a reason.  Figure it out and problem solved.  I won't smile at that same parent at a restaurant, that's where the parents needs to be less selfish and think of someone besides themselves.  No restaurants till you kids learn the rules of restaurants.

Crying toddlers in a grocery store, that's the parent's fault for taking them shopping at nap time.  Not doing your kid any favors with that garbage.  Rewarding that crying and begging with candy?  That just makes me sad for the kid's future.  Again, no point in getting all raged up about it however, it's a bit hypocritical to dump on a parent who can't control their kid by being an adult who loses control of their own emotions.
 
2013-04-02 11:45:36 AM  

Pharmdawg: Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.

Oh I know what I should do, pop them on the arse and tell them to behave. That's what my parents did. Unfortunately, society has decided in many instances to call the government in and have a huge paperwork fiasco and potentially have my kids taken away and placed in foster care for such action. You know how bad foster care can be. You tell me how to avoid that in a self help book format and you'll make millions.


My solution is to teach all of your brats all of the various swear words.  I've found 4 year olds repetitively calling their mom a c*nt funnier than anything else.
 
2013-04-02 11:50:28 AM  
I went out to dinner at a relatively fancy Italian restaurant off of Central Park West on Friday. We had reservations for about 6:30pm.

As I was getting a drink at the bar, I noticed a table of parents with what was probably a 6 month old. Cutest 6 month old ever. But I thought the parents were insane to bring such a young child to such a nice restaurant. But the kid was surprisingly fine. And all of my friends (who btw have kids around the same age) said hello to the family and complimented them on how well-behaved their daughter was.

But I gotta ask, was that 6 month old well behaved cause that was her nature? Or well behaved cause her parents taught her that?

Again, 6 months seems a little young to be understanding "manners".
 
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