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(The New York Times)   I don't have any kids. But I'm a condescending urban douchebag who writes for the New York Times, so I know more about how you should be raising your kids than you do   (nytimes.com) divider line 616
    More: Asinine, Honey Boo Boo, helicopter parenting, The Modern Parents, chicken fingers, ultimatum, Super Bowl rings, anthems  
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23312 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Apr 2013 at 8:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-02 11:40:21 AM
You have to be willing to give up a whole lot of your life to be a parent, but it's incredibly rewarding.  The problem I see is parents who never wanted to be parents. They're just not willing to put the effort in, and won't be swayed by strangers giving them the death glare.

I'll often smile at a stressed out parent in the grocery store who has a crying infant, infants are great, they only cry for a reason.  Figure it out and problem solved.  I won't smile at that same parent at a restaurant, that's where the parents needs to be less selfish and think of someone besides themselves.  No restaurants till you kids learn the rules of restaurants.

Crying toddlers in a grocery store, that's the parent's fault for taking them shopping at nap time.  Not doing your kid any favors with that garbage.  Rewarding that crying and begging with candy?  That just makes me sad for the kid's future.  Again, no point in getting all raged up about it however, it's a bit hypocritical to dump on a parent who can't control their kid by being an adult who loses control of their own emotions.
 
2013-04-02 11:45:36 AM

Pharmdawg: Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.

Oh I know what I should do, pop them on the arse and tell them to behave. That's what my parents did. Unfortunately, society has decided in many instances to call the government in and have a huge paperwork fiasco and potentially have my kids taken away and placed in foster care for such action. You know how bad foster care can be. You tell me how to avoid that in a self help book format and you'll make millions.


My solution is to teach all of your brats all of the various swear words.  I've found 4 year olds repetitively calling their mom a c*nt funnier than anything else.
 
2013-04-02 11:50:28 AM
I went out to dinner at a relatively fancy Italian restaurant off of Central Park West on Friday. We had reservations for about 6:30pm.

As I was getting a drink at the bar, I noticed a table of parents with what was probably a 6 month old. Cutest 6 month old ever. But I thought the parents were insane to bring such a young child to such a nice restaurant. But the kid was surprisingly fine. And all of my friends (who btw have kids around the same age) said hello to the family and complimented them on how well-behaved their daughter was.

But I gotta ask, was that 6 month old well behaved cause that was her nature? Or well behaved cause her parents taught her that?

Again, 6 months seems a little young to be understanding "manners".
 
2013-04-02 11:50:54 AM

Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.


hopestillfloats.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-02 11:52:08 AM

SuperChuck: earthworm2.0: cs30109: Gig103: Sensei Can You See: During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do?

Ideally, you stay home with a 3 month old and tell your family to visit you.

The same thing can happen to a kid all the way through toddler ages.  If anything, having done it multiple times, very small babies are easier to handle on planes than toddlers.  What are you supposed to do, stay home for 3 years and never fly anywhere?  That's not a reasonable expectation.  Some of you people may just have to put up with an hour of crying on a flight every now and then.  It won't kill you.

Maybe won't kill ME.... But if I'm on the plane with your rotten crotch dropping screaming at the top of its lungs, YOUR life is in danger. I don't blame the kid. I blame you. And one murder on a plane of a self centered stupid parent should set a fine example for the rest of the country. It will definetly make the news. And serve as a warning. Shut your kid up, or some crazy SOB just might lose it and kill you.

/crazy people ride planes too, but draw much less attention....

If you're so delicate that a little noise sends you off the walls, maybe you should stay home where it's safe to write for Internet Tough Guy magazine in complete seclusion


I think my comment is a perfectly logical example. Crazy people do ride planes. The point is to always be aware of your surroundings. Do you really want to draw the ire of everyone within earshot? And statistically speaking, SOMEONE on that plane is unbalanced. They could go off.the rails. Now then, I suppose.depending.on the level of crazy, they blame the kid or the parent. I err on the side of logic, figuring it is the parents responsibility to maintain the child's behavior, and believe the adult would be the most likely target. I made the comment in first person because it works better. And ill have you know that Internet tough guy magazine is a valid and unpstanding publication.
 
2013-04-02 12:00:43 PM

Lollipop165: I went out to dinner at a relatively fancy Italian restaurant off of Central Park West on Friday. We had reservations for about 6:30pm.

As I was getting a drink at the bar, I noticed a table of parents with what was probably a 6 month old. Cutest 6 month old ever. But I thought the parents were insane to bring such a young child to such a nice restaurant. But the kid was surprisingly fine. And all of my friends (who btw have kids around the same age) said hello to the family and complimented them on how well-behaved their daughter was.

But I gotta ask, was that 6 month old well behaved cause that was her nature? Or well behaved cause her parents taught her that?

Again, 6 months seems a little young to be understanding "manners".


Was the kid being entertained by a TV show on a tablet?  That's the newest craze, and it sucks.  "oh, it keeps her quiet!"  Yes, and I have to listen to Looney Tunes at an upscale restaurant.
 
2013-04-02 12:09:04 PM
To the `you haven`t grown up if you haven`t had kids` I`ll flip that one for you.

YOU haven`t grown up. Your development has been retarded by having to put it at the level of a child so often you can`t even imagine the place you would be at if you did not do that.

You are still trying to live up to your prepubescent dreams of a nuclear family and make everything you wanted at age 6 come to pass.

Grow up. You will never be a princess. Your child will not be a princess either.
 
2013-04-02 12:10:09 PM
If you are on a plane to Orlando on a weekend during spring break, you have no right to complain about annoying kids.  On a plane to Cleveland on a Tuesday evening - ok you can complain.  If you are in a Applebees at 5:30 you have no right to complain.  If you are at a steakhouse at 7:30 on a Friday night, you can complain.

Time and a place for everything.  Dont want to be around annoying kids, don't go to places that cater to kids.

This goes both ways - parents, if you take your kids to a bar/restaurant to watch a nice sunset on the beach and there is cursing/revealing clothing/smoking, drinking/etc.- shut the fark up, you took your kids to a bar for crissakes.

Parent of 4 - ages 5-13.
 
2013-04-02 12:21:40 PM
So for all of you who say non parents can not comment on parenting, you are suggesting that:

Not a soldier/sailer/Marine/airmen? No point of view on the war. So stop that now.
Not a rape victim? No point of view on rape.
Not a cop? No point of view on excessive force.
Not a gun owner? No point of view on gun control.

Cause ya know, you have no direct experience with the situation so you  can not have an opinion.
 
2013-04-02 12:25:31 PM

SarcasticFark: Funny thing...I have TWO kids and I can't find a damn thing the writer of this article is wrong about.  One of my boys is a pseudo-adult (above the age of majority but his frontal lobe isn't quite fully functional yet) and one know-it-all 16 year old.  My parenting philosophy consists of 3 rules:

1.  Warn once, punish once.
2.  Teach empathy and respect for others' personal space and private property.
3.  Re-farkin'-lax.  If you've done 1 and 2...the rest is relatively easy.


Yep.

I have two as well (10 & 13). I wanted to dismiss the author as a self-important, know-it-all, Big City Douchebag, but he was right on the money from start to finish, particularly his concluding statement which I shall quote here for your convenience and reflection:

So parents: cut yourselves some slack. Take a deep breath. No one false step or one missed call is going to consign your children to an entirely different future. Make sure that they know they're loved. Make sure that they know their place. And make peace with the fact that you don't hold all or even most of the cards. There may be a frustrating sense of helplessness in that realization. But there's a mercy, too.
 
2013-04-02 12:31:02 PM

another cultural observer: Lollipop165: I went out to dinner at a relatively fancy Italian restaurant off of Central Park West on Friday. We had reservations for about 6:30pm.

As I was getting a drink at the bar, I noticed a table of parents with what was probably a 6 month old. Cutest 6 month old ever. But I thought the parents were insane to bring such a young child to such a nice restaurant. But the kid was surprisingly fine. And all of my friends (who btw have kids around the same age) said hello to the family and complimented them on how well-behaved their daughter was.

But I gotta ask, was that 6 month old well behaved cause that was her nature? Or well behaved cause her parents taught her that?

Again, 6 months seems a little young to be understanding "manners".

Was the kid being entertained by a TV show on a tablet?  That's the newest craze, and it sucks.  "oh, it keeps her quiet!"  Yes, and I have to listen to Looney Tunes at an upscale restaurant.


Nope. It was surprising. I was going to rail on how stupid the parents were to bring her there, but she was such a joy to have. Even at an upscale restaurant on a Friday night I didn't mind her.
 
2013-04-02 12:31:48 PM

Lollipop165: I went out to dinner at a relatively fancy Italian restaurant off of Central Park West on Friday. We had reservations for about 6:30pm.

As I was getting a drink at the bar, I noticed a table of parents with what was probably a 6 month old. Cutest 6 month old ever. But I thought the parents were insane to bring such a young child to such a nice restaurant. But the kid was surprisingly fine. And all of my friends (who btw have kids around the same age) said hello to the family and complimented them on how well-behaved their daughter was.

But I gotta ask, was that 6 month old well behaved cause that was her nature? Or well behaved cause her parents taught her that?

Again, 6 months seems a little young to be understanding "manners".


The kid was probably just having a good time. My kids were always surprisingly well behaved when going out around that age. They're so busy looking at all the new things to see that they never get around to being difficult.
 
2013-04-02 12:36:44 PM

Lcpl_Dunno: So for all of you who say non parents can not comment on parenting, you are suggesting that:

Not a soldier/sailer/Marine/airmen? No point of view on the war. So stop that now.


You can have a view on war.  But you may not be in a good position to lecture generals and commanders about about battlefield tactics and campaign strategies.

Basically, you are welcome to have opinions about whether you like kids or not, or whether or not you would like to be a parent.  But if you completely lack first-hand experience (no, Frank Bruni, having nieces and nephews doesn't count), you simply are not in a good position to give practical advice to those who do.

A lot of things that may seem simple and obvious and black-and-white from the outside are not so.  Everyone is an expert at parenting until they actually have to be a parent.  Then you discover that all your preconceived opinions and theories and convictions are worth little, and you simply try to do the best you can.
 
2013-04-02 12:37:20 PM
What i've learned from this thread:

People who don't/didn't have kids are annoyed by kids

People who do/did have kids are annoyed by people who complain that they are annoyed by kids
 
2013-04-02 12:56:04 PM
OK, everyone, please stop. Everything has been said (most of it by people who didn't RTFA and thought the guy was whining about kids on airplanes).

Move on. Look, there's a really great thread up there! Wow! Let's all go check it out!
 
2013-04-02 12:57:50 PM
I'm kind of surprised at the amount of people who have kids when they're in their early 20s are younger, especially in poorer communities. It sucks because A) Don't you think you should have your shiat together first before you can properly raise another person? and B)Waaaaaay too many single moms my age cluttering up dating sites.
 
2013-04-02 01:16:37 PM

GAT_00: Barfmaker: Barfmaker: This is not about that.
GAT_00: You know what you could have done? Not flown with a 3 month old. Seriously, what the fark?

Heh, well, apparently this is about that.

That's just something avoidable though.  It isn't really a badly behaved child, which this is about.  That's a parent making a poor decision with a child that shouldn't be doing anything of the sort because they can't handle it.

The problem on planes is usually the kid kicking the seat while the parent doesn't give a fark, or other versions of the kid not leaving you the hell alone.


Before the birth of my child I swore up and down I would never take her on plane before she was old enough to be well behaved for the flight.  Then one day I wandered into a thread where people were arguing their right to crush my knees(I'm 6'2") so they could get an extra ounce of comfort leaning their seat back at the expense of my comfort.  I noticed that many of the people screaming about children not flying were the same people who felt their physical comfort was more important than mine. As a result, my daughter flew three times in her first year and I didn't feel an ounce of guilt.
 
2013-04-02 01:19:44 PM
It surprises me that on Fark, a place where people joke about public schools turning kids into mindless drones ready to enter the workforce unquestioningly, there are parents who pride themselves on how efficiently they've browbeaten their kids into doing whatever they are told, unquestioningly.

I see parents who are raising kids to fit into their own lifestyle, not parents who care about their kids as people.
 
2013-04-02 01:27:24 PM
Doc Daneeka:
You can have a view on war.  But you may not be in a good position to lecture generals and commanders about about battlefield tactics and campaign strategies.

Basically, you are welcome to have opinions about whether you like kids or not, or whether or not you would like to be a parent.  But if you completely lack first-hand experience (no, Frank Bruni, having nieces and nephews doesn't count), you simply are not in a good position to give practical advice to those who do.

A lot of things that may seem simple and obvious and black-and-white from the outside are not so.  Everyone is an expert at parenting until they actually have to be a parent.  Then you discover that all your preconceived opinions and theories and convictions are worth little, and you simply try to do the best you can.


So telling an infantryman to shoot back if he's shot at would be outside your purview? This guy didn't go out on a limb anywhere. He isn't saying amazing and new ideas. So stating (what should be) the obvious isn't ok because he isn't a parent?

Also I would like to point out that the general American point of view for disliking the war is "Pull out of there, we don't need to be there" while the generals all say "Uh we can't do that".

What's most important here (evidently) is that being firm is impossible while being a parent. Giving your kid 9000 chances (as suggested) will readily prepare them for the cops when they turn 18 right? "Well son this is your first offense for meth so why don't you just run along and stop doing meth" I mean that happens right?

Lastly, I am a parent. It doesn't offend me to know that people think society (and kids) are going to hell because it is/they are. Actually parenting kids instead of making the spoiled little brats would go a long way to fixing both of these problems. Of course that will never happen.
 
2013-04-02 01:28:05 PM

browntimmy: Heh, for a long time I've thought that if there's one book, song, movie, etc. from my childhood that I would want to expose my future children to it would be that.


This one sums up everything about parenting and adulthood perfectly

rounding30.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-02 01:28:59 PM

earthworm2.0: Maybe won't kill ME.... But if I'm on the plane with your rotten crotch dropping screaming at the top of its lungs, YOUR life is in danger. I don't blame the kid. I blame you. And one murder on a plane of a self centered stupid parent should set a fine example for the rest of the country. It will definetly make the news. And serve as a warning. Shut your kid up, or some crazy SOB just might lose it and kill you.


That's a chicken, not a baby.
 
2013-04-02 01:32:38 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: I have two as well (10 & 13). I wanted to dismiss the author as a self-important, know-it-all, Big City Douchebag, but he was right on the money from start to finish


I thought the article was a series of perfectly sensible observations from someone outside the parenting game.
 
2013-04-02 01:34:21 PM

Surpheon: Moopy Mac: So in other words, your kids have carte blanche to annoy others?

No, they just have as much right as you do. I've been far more annoyed by drunk 20-somethings laughing like hyenas on a plane than a kid crying, but both have carte blanche to be their annoying selves. I don't know what your mom taught you, but mine taught me that tolerating others is part of living in society.


Do you have a newsletter or something I can sign up for?
 
2013-04-02 01:53:58 PM

douchebag/hater: Albinoman: You don't have to be a musician to know bad music just like you don't have to be a parent to know that someone is doing it wrong.

Absolutely 100% THIS.


And all the upset and butthurt people here saying 'until you've done it you can't have an opinion' are idiots.

Your kids are little tyrants. You're trying to negotiate with a 4 year old?
How farking stupid are you?
You'd rather give your kid an iPad to keep them quiet in a restaurant than acclimating them to societal norms about public behavior?
You're an idiot.
You think every thing your kid does is perfect and when she is flunking out of college it's some how the University's fault?
You've spent years being a shiatty parent.

Stop getting upset at having it pointed out to you because your angry simply proves how much you screwed up raising your kids.


You want to know how I know you don't have kids?

Look, it is different and harder than you think. Everyone's an expert until they have to deal with it themselves. Good luck.
 
2013-04-02 02:09:47 PM

dready zim: To the `you haven`t grown up if you haven`t had kids` I`ll flip that one for you.

YOU haven`t grown up. Your development has been retarded by having to put it at the level of a child so often you can`t even imagine the place you would be at if you did not do that.

You are still trying to live up to your prepubescent dreams of a nuclear family and make everything you wanted at age 6 come to pass.

Grow up. You will never be a princess. Your child will not be a princess either.


0/10. Obvious troll is obvious.
 
2013-04-02 02:11:18 PM

DCBuck: Look, it is different and harder than you think. Everyone's an expert until they have to deal with it themselves.


Just as atheists are just Christians who go one god further in their disbelief, so childless people only have one or two or a few kids' less experience than parents. Just because someone has dealt with it themselves in one kid doesn't give them any authority in how it should be dealt with in another.

Want proof? Have a look at the pit of screaming insanity which is www.mumsnet.com
 
2013-04-02 02:24:11 PM

GAT_00: You know what you could have done?  Not flown with a 3 month old.  Seriously, what the fark?


Why is traveling with a 3-month-old such a problem?
 
2013-04-02 02:27:45 PM

bronyaur1: GAT_00: Sensei Can You See: GAT_00:
[snip]

You know what you could have done?  Not flown with a 3 month old.  Seriously, what the fark?

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph:  THIS.


Yes, because children should never be seen in public until they're at least 10. Also, why the fark do people with disabilities have to go out where I have to look at them? Can't I eat my dinner without being annoyed by some old fart with a walker or something?
 
2013-04-02 02:28:44 PM

Scorpio Rex: We have a collage of our kids when they were babies on the wall.  When they were toddlers/kindergarten age, I put a picture of some random kid in one of the frames and told them that he was their older brother, but he wouldn't mind his parents so we had to send him away to break rocks.


Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy
 
2013-04-02 02:30:53 PM

Doc Daneeka: Lot of non-parents in this thread who know everything about proper parenting.

Lot of those people are going to get a major reality check someday when they are behind the wheel.  Your perspective changes a lot.

Are there shiatty parents?  Absolutely.  Lots of them.

All I'm saying is, it's really easy to judge.  It's much harder to do.

Pennsylvania Dutch Oven: The reality is that these people will gladly take your praise when you complement their children for good behaviour (I actually got to do that in an up-scale restaurant this weekend). Sorry parents, if you want the glory, you have to eat the shiat too.

See, here's the thing.  Most parents don't give a shiat about what strangers think one way or the other.  As I said, your perspective changes.  Concern number #1 is the health, safety, well-being, and instillation of knowledge and values to the child.  Whether or not random strangers are annoyed or pleased by your parenting methods moves way down your list of priorities.


Ya that's the problem, parents teach their kids to have no respect for other people.
 
2013-04-02 02:37:08 PM

DCBuck: douchebag/hater: Albinoman: You don't have to be a musician to know bad music just like you don't have to be a parent to know that someone is doing it wrong.

Absolutely 100% THIS.


And all the upset and butthurt people here saying 'until you've done it you can't have an opinion' are idiots.

Your kids are little tyrants. You're trying to negotiate with a 4 year old?
How farking stupid are you?
You'd rather give your kid an iPad to keep them quiet in a restaurant than acclimating them to societal norms about public behavior?
You're an idiot.
You think every thing your kid does is perfect and when she is flunking out of college it's some how the University's fault?
You've spent years being a shiatty parent.

Stop getting upset at having it pointed out to you because your angry simply proves how much you screwed up raising your kids.

You want to know how I know you don't have kids?

Look, it is different and harder than you think. Everyone's an expert until they have to deal with it themselves. Good luck.



The impression I'm getting is that some parents treat their children like low-skilled employees and just steamroll them into doing what the parents want. They think this makes them good parents, because their kid is potty trained at six months (really? our kid couldn't even stand up until she was one), and have learned not to argue about what color coat they prefer to wear.

What I hear is, "Kids aren't people, so they shouldn't be given choices or encouragement, and we should never, ever engage them in negotiation. Parents just tell kids what to do, period."

I say to them, congrats on your little basket-case in the making.
 
2013-04-02 02:37:28 PM

lostcat: It surprises me that on Fark, a place where people joke about public schools turning kids into mindless drones ready to enter the workforce unquestioningly, there are parents who pride themselves on how efficiently they've browbeaten their kids into doing whatever they are told, unquestioningly.

I see parents who are raising kids to fit into their own lifestyle, not parents who care about their kids as people.


Teaching your kids to be mindful of others is not browbeating them into submission. If you can't tell the difference then don't have kids please.
 
2013-04-02 02:38:34 PM
LOL!  Comedy gold here.  The most self-absorbed, self-centered, narcissistic crowd on the intartubez devotes an entire thread to telling everyone else how to be a good parent.

Because egotistic, conceited, vainglorious assholes who pool together like this to enjoy the group affirmation of their superior enlightened outlook on...well...everything, is the exact parenting product the rest of the world really wants to emulate.

Sometimes, "irony" is too small a word.
 
2013-04-02 02:56:29 PM

Arthur Jumbles: If you fly a 3 month old around during the holidays to show him off to all the family that just shows you care more about your own selfish desires than the other people around you or the comfort and happiness of your own baby, for that matter.


Well, let's see here. I had just moved from Kansas to Portland to go to college and the SO's side of the family had not gotten to meet my son yet. It had been a tough year; the SO's mother died two days after the SO discovered she was pregnant at last after more than five years of us struggling with infertility issues.

So I decided that a four-hour flight from Portland to Chicago and back was a better way to travel with a 3-month old than the three days it would have taken to drive there.

The flight there went fine, as have all the other times I've flown anywhere with my kids.

But I hear you. I should have said hey, fark the rest of my SO's family who wanted to get together for the holidays and celebrate new life in the family even as they grieved the loss of their mother. I should have just stayed home because flying with a baby might annoy a stranger for a whole 20 minutes.
 
2013-04-02 03:02:20 PM

the ha ha guy: Kids can also run down aisles and kick seats in a restaurant or theater, yet a few in this thread have defended exactly that.

Surpheon:

 Actually no, no one has. Only one other person has even mentioned a theater and the thirty odd mentions of kick problems have all been clearly and explicitly dealing with planes. Go to bed, you're imagining things.
...

the ha ha guy:But what do I know? I'm just an evil childless person liar who will never know the kind of love it takes to say "you just beat up a cripple with a metal cane, good job".

Fixed that for you. When telling blatant lies, perhaps make them harder to check than CTRL-F the thread.
 
2013-04-02 03:08:04 PM

Aigoo: Surpheon: Kids can also run down aisles and kick seats in a restaurant or theater, yet a few in this thread have defended exactly that.

Actually no, no one has. Only one other person has even mentioned a theater and the thirty odd mentions of kick problems have all been clearly and explicitly dealing with planes. Go to bed, you're imagining things.

Actually, I have had kids kick the hell out of my seat in theaters as well...


Kids kicking the seat in front of them is a chronic problem. I was primarily pointing out that the kicking seats *while running up and down the aisles* was just not a thing, and that the assertion that people had mentioned it earlier in the thread was verifiably and blatantly false.

More interestingly, the kicking only while seated (not running around) is interesting because research has found adults also tend to kick the seat in front of them if their seat is too high to fully rest their feet on the floor. With kids you have the perfect storm of developing empathy, poor impulse control, and the wrong size seat. Kicking the seat in front of them while seated is rude and they need to learn not to do it, but it is a sign of not recognizing their impact on others. Kicking the seat while running in the aisle would have different motivation altogether.
 
2013-04-02 03:10:21 PM

Arthur Jumbles: The parents are being rude and inconsiderate.


Y'know, that reminds me of something. Almost exactly a year before this incident, my ex's mother died after a very brief illness.

When we all realized how serious her condition really was, my ex's sister needed to get to Kansas from California ASAP. Her husband was on a business trip to Tokyo, so she was forced to bundle up their three children -- one of whom was 5, one of whom was a toddler and one of whom was only a few weeks old, and get on a plane.

She was of course exhausted and distraught; her oldest was also crying and grieving and while the other two were too young to understand what was going on, they picked up on their mother's distress.

So all three kids were tired, miserable and bawling nearly the entire flight.

I'm sure there were a number of self-absorbed, over-entitled sanctimonious pricks just like you on that flight who sat there and cursed her for being selfish enough to fly with children and for being a lousy parent because the kids kept crying.

And I am filled with a curious kind of joy to realize that they, just like you, have no idea just how stupid and shallow they were. And probably never will.
 
2013-04-02 03:15:52 PM

Arthur Jumbles: For me, the sound of a baby crying actually makes me feel pain, it is painful.


Then you should not ever go outside. It's rude and inconsiderate of you.
 
2013-04-02 03:30:27 PM

profplump: Nadie_AZ: Until you actually raise one or are actively raising one

You can't expect anyone to take you seriously hen you're suggest that the one and only ay to become knoledgable about childrearing is to sit next to a child for a fe years. I'm not saying this guy is an expert, or even makes any sense, but the idea that becoming a parent someho imbues people ith parenting skills and knoledge, and therefore that people ithout children can have no such knoledge, is absurd.

Parents are notoriously blind to certain aspects of their relationships ith their on children in particular. For example, parents are almost universally unilling to see their on children as real people, rather than an extension of themselves, long past the point hen the rest of the orld recognizes the difference. Most parents have very little training in childrearing outside their on experiences, so they have limited perspective and experience on hich to model their behavior. And like any other relationship it's often difficult to evaluate objectively from the inside, so parents are poor judges of their on performance.

This guy might just be some childless blohard ith nothing useful to say. But categorically dismissing the opinion of everyone ithout a child at their hip hen discussing childrearing is just as ridiculous as dismissing the opinion of everyone not currently in a bus hen discussing public transportation. Everyone as once a child. The majority of people have been or ill be parents. And everyone is affected by the ay e raise children, even if they never directly participate.


WHO STOLE THIS MAN"S W KEY? COME ON FESS UP
 
2013-04-02 03:53:32 PM

Wait for the restaurant server to step up to the table and ask for the order, then (and only then!) turn to your three (3) year old and ask them what they want off the children's menu.

Parent: What would you like to drink, Johnny?

Child: Juice!

Parent: Orange juice or apple juice?

Child: Uhmmm ...

Parent: Do you want orange juice or apple juice?

Child: Uhmmm ...

Parent: Do you like orange juice better?

Child: Uhmmm ...

Parent: Do you want apple juice instead?

Child: Uhmmm ...

Parent: Which do you want, Johnny, orange or apple?

Child: Uhmmm ...

Parent: You like apples, how about apple juice?

Child: Uhmmm ...

Parent: Well, you usually have orange juice, how about we get you that?

Child: no -ooooo -oooo ....

Parent: OK, so you want apple juice!

Child: Nuh-uh! Juice!

Parent: But which juice do you want, honey?

Child: Uhmmm ...

 
2013-04-02 03:59:03 PM

Lcpl_Dunno: So for all of you who say non parents can not comment on parenting, you are suggesting that:

Not a soldier/sailer/Marine/airmen? No point of view on the war. So stop that now.
Not a rape victim? No point of view on rape.
Not a cop? No point of view on excessive force.
Not a gun owner? No point of view on gun control.

Cause ya know, you have no direct experience with the situation so you  can not have an opinion.


Not a man made of straw? No point of view on strawman arguments.
 
2013-04-02 04:10:28 PM
And what's the deal with airline food?!?!?

Amiright people?
 
2013-04-02 04:13:23 PM

CeroX: What i've learned from this thread:

People who don't/didn't have kids are annoyed by kids

People who do/did have kids are annoyed by people who complain that they are annoyed by kids


Solution :

Parent should keep their kids away from other people.
 
2013-04-02 04:20:23 PM

dready zim: CeroX: What i've learned from this thread:

People who don't/didn't have kids are annoyed by kids

People who do/did have kids are annoyed by people who complain that they are annoyed by kids

Solution :

Parent should keep their kids away from other people.


BSABSKYKAH
 
2013-04-02 04:31:01 PM

Sensei Can You See: The flight there went fine, as have all the other times I've flown anywhere with my kids.


Sensei Can You See: all three kids were tired, miserable and bawling nearly the entire flight.


This is the dissonance others refer to in the minds of parents. Yes, your SO had a personal tragedy and could not avoid flying but the difference between your two statements about your childrens actions on the same flight shows how you expect others to just shut the hell up and let your kids ruin their flight which (you have no way of knowing) may be for an even more tragic reason than yours. The person praying for the life of their SO and children who they are flying to watch maybe die for example who has to listen to your bawling children for hours...

That *is* what you meant isn`t it? You can`t tell why others are flying and should be considerate?

You couldn`t know whether they were on the plane the same as the other passengers did not know your tragic story either. Your unknown (to the other passengers) personal circumstances do not trump others because you are a parent. Playing the heart strings card does not excuse you from finding a way to quieten your children either.
 
2013-04-02 04:32:24 PM
 
2013-04-02 04:40:35 PM

Pincy: Doc Daneeka: Lot of non-parents in this thread who know everything about proper parenting.

Lot of those people are going to get a major reality check someday when they are behind the wheel.  Your perspective changes a lot.

Are there shiatty parents?  Absolutely.  Lots of them.

All I'm saying is, it's really easy to judge.  It's much harder to do.

Pennsylvania Dutch Oven: The reality is that these people will gladly take your praise when you complement their children for good behaviour (I actually got to do that in an up-scale restaurant this weekend). Sorry parents, if you want the glory, you have to eat the shiat too.

See, here's the thing.  Most parents don't give a shiat about what strangers think one way or the other.  As I said, your perspective changes.  Concern number #1 is the health, safety, well-being, and instillation of knowledge and values to the child.  Whether or not random strangers are annoyed or pleased by your parenting methods moves way down your list of priorities.

Ya that's the problem, parents teach their kids to have no respect for other people.


No - parents prioritize parenting their child over worrying about what random people think.

Point is, it's not about you.
 
2013-04-02 04:53:04 PM
Most of the guy's points are fairly unarguable. What's subby's problem?
 
2013-04-02 04:54:39 PM

the ha ha guy: archichris: Since you have exactly zero authority over them the best thing you can do is remove it from your list of irritations.


Crying children is irritating, yes, but I've only encountered that a few times. Far more often, the "irritation" is theft, violence, etc, but only one parent I've seen actually took responsibility for their child without being compelled to do so by an employee or police officer.

Since I'm meant to ignore these "irritations", what do you suggest I do in order to ignore a child who steals my cane and hits me with it in the back of the leg, and the mother who defended it to the manager and insisted on letting the kid keep my cane?


You just answered your own question, striking and stealing are crimes, call the police. Being a crying baby isnt a crime, but maybe you can get the cop to pepper spray a toddler while he is there, I dont know what the cops are like where you live....

OH but also.....the anecdote does not disprove the point. There is an infinitesimal percentage chance that you will be born with a sears blender sticking out of your spine......but I guess someday it might happen.....but it would be absurd for us as a society to establish a special law to cover that one anecdotal situation that may or may not ever occur.
 
2013-04-02 04:57:13 PM

dready zim: another cultural observer: BSABSKYKAH

?


Both Sides Are Bad So Keep Your Kids At Home
 
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