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(The New York Times)   I don't have any kids. But I'm a condescending urban douchebag who writes for the New York Times, so I know more about how you should be raising your kids than you do   (nytimes.com) divider line 616
    More: Asinine, Honey Boo Boo, helicopter parenting, The Modern Parents, chicken fingers, ultimatum, Super Bowl rings, anthems  
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23328 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Apr 2013 at 8:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-02 01:16:34 AM  

Nadie_AZ: Sensei Can You See: During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do? I wasn't ignoring him; I was comforting him and trying to get him to take some formula. But you can't spank a 3-month-old for bad behavior.

I'm a parent. I've been through a lot of sleepless nights, endless days of tooth aches, colic, asthma attacks. It is so hard sometimes. And when I see kids crying, I feel for the parents as much as anything else- of course I would rather a quiet plane ride or dinner experience- but god dammit- children are going to cry. They are going to be in pain, they are going to surprise you when you least expect it. And for other people to sit there and be assholes with their looks and groans, yeah that sucks.


I've been in Paris for the past few weeks and the children here are the most well behaved I have ever seen. I have not witnessed one melt down in a restaurant or tantrum in a public place. Two hour ride on a train sitting across from a 10 year old and not a peep.

It can be done.
 
2013-04-02 01:18:39 AM  
As someone who used to be a kid, who was raised by parents, and who lives in society, I think I have *some* idea what constitutes effective parenting.

When I was kid, you got ONE CHANCE, before being picked up and transported out into the parking lot, where your parent would restrain you until your tantrum was over.
 
2013-04-02 01:18:43 AM  

RenownedCurator: Parents routinely surrender control when they shouldn't, replacing rules with requests, and children are expected to chart their own routes to good behavior, using the faulty GPS's of their flowering consciences, I suppose. Families are run as democracies. Parents forget: in the political realm, you don't get a say until you're 18. There's a reason for that.

That quote? Absolutely spot on. And I say that as a mother of three young children who have not always been angels in public. Kids are not born knowing how to be polite, accommodate other people, or generally be civilized. It's the parents' job to teach them, and if it means having to abandon a grocery cart to go home due to a tantrum, or walk out of a restaurant because a child couldn't stop shouting (both of these things happened exactly once) then that's what you do. I will say that I think it's easier to get spooked about disciplining children in public these days -- you never know when some busybody might decide that a swat on a toddler's bottom is child abuse and decide to take down your license number or start screaming at you. There are a considerable number of people who think that even time outs are wrong because they're shaming and socially isolating the child. Which is nuts, but there you are.

This is not to say that children don't get choices, but they should get smaller ones, which increase in importance as they get older and demonstrate their ability to handle them. They don't get to decide to eat Pop Tarts for breakfast, but they can choose the colour of plate they'll have their breakfast on. They don't get to run around screaming in a museum, but on a family vacation you can give them a choice of which museum they would like to see. In other words, not a democracy, but a benevolent dictatorship.

About the airplane issue -- we take a lot of road trips, but if you've only got four days off for Thanksgiving and your family lives 2000 miles away, isn't in great health, and would like to see the ...


I agree totally. I was gobsmacked by a friend the other day who was horrified that her 4 year old child didn't wear a jacket on a snowy day. Why? Because she asked the child if he wanted to put on his jacket to go outside. Being still at the age where saying "NO" is the default answer to everything except "do you want candy, he said no. AND SHE WENT WITH IT. It really would have been as easy as phrasing it "do you want to wear your red jacket or your blue jacket," or some variation thereof in which the child is "given a choice" but either choice is a desirable outcome. At an older age a child would get to learn the consequences of not wearing their coat, as the parent advised.

I also remember from my childhood that when I was misbehaving in public, my mother gave me a firm "do we have to go to the bathroom/outside" and when that event was triggered there was a clear line to either behave or face the consequences. Kids seem to deal best when the rules are clear, not endlessly negotiable, as kids given the chance are astonishingly good little lawyers, remembering every precedent for why they should be allowed to do something.
 
2013-04-02 01:23:57 AM  

Psycat: Fano: mike_the_engineer: I have kids and this guy is EXACTLY RIGHT.  You don't negotiate with a 3 year old.  Who the fark is in charge here?

I do pediatrics and my motto is "I don't negotiate with terrorists."

The few times I have to deal with someone's brat (most kids are tolerable), make me really appreciative of my child-free lifestyle.  I have very little sympathy for people who do a crappy job of parenting, then have to bail their son out of jail or babysit their 14-year-old daughter's child.  It's the crappy parents who serve as a good argument for requiring a Breeding License...


Most kids are actually pretty good. I only get annoyed when I watch a parent pulling the "junior, I'm going to punish you on the count of 10. 9.5, 9.6, 9.7, 9.9, 9.999, 9.9999..." etc. I then use the firm teacher voice I learned from my parents and the kid does as told. The parent then says a self effacing "I can never get him to listen," to which I always think "you've never actually tried to make him listen."
 
2013-04-02 01:25:25 AM  

Witness99: Nadie_AZ: Sensei Can You See: During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do? I wasn't ignoring him; I was comforting him and trying to get him to take some formula. But you can't spank a 3-month-old for bad behavior.

I'm a parent. I've been through a lot of sleepless nights, endless days of tooth aches, colic, asthma attacks. It is so hard sometimes. And when I see kids crying, I feel for the parents as much as anything else- of course I would rather a quiet plane ride or dinner experience- but god dammit- children are going to cry. They are going to be in pain, they are going to surprise you when you least expect it. And for other people to sit there and be assholes with their looks and groans, yeah that sucks.

I agree. I don't have kids, so I'm not accustomed to all the screaming/crying etc...but I never give a dirty look to a parent. Parents are making great sacrifices that will benefit the community and all of humanity. People without kids need to suck it up and instead of complaining about being inconvenienced, be appreciative that others are raising up the next generation...which you will most likely depend on.


Oh please stop with the parent martyr complex crap. Most parents have children for selfish reasons.
 
2013-04-02 01:26:25 AM  
My kids still talk about the time we drove into the city (about 20 miles) to spend the day shopping and roaming the mall and they were acting like asses on the drive down. I told them to cut it out or there would be no mall and when they continued being jerks I pulled into the mall parking lot, made a u-turn and drove straight back home. They were pissed but they had nobody to blame but themselves (and each other).
 
2013-04-02 01:29:37 AM  
if i cried, my dad "gave me something to cry about".
i still cry (secretly) when i watch little house on the prairie.
 
2013-04-02 01:29:52 AM  

Pincy: Oh please stop with the parent martyr complex crap. Most parents have children for selfish reasons.


That's right. When the food supply runs out we'll be the ones with handy nourishment to survive on.

/hahahahahahahaha!!!!
 
2013-04-02 01:30:06 AM  

frostus: My kids still talk about the time we drove into the city (about 20 miles) to spend the day shopping and roaming the mall and they were acting like asses on the drive down. I told them to cut it out or there would be no mall and when they continued being jerks I pulled into the mall parking lot, made a u-turn and drove straight back home. They were pissed but they had nobody to blame but themselves (and each other).


Did they ever do it again?
 
2013-04-02 01:30:52 AM  
This guy should have a kid and then come back and write a column apologizing to all parents everywhere.

It was really easy to be a perfect parent before I had a kid. Once you have a kid, being a parent is like repairing a plane in mid-flight, you're just trying to keep everything from crashing to the ground.
 
2013-04-02 01:31:09 AM  

Fano: Psycat: Fano: mike_the_engineer: I have kids and this guy is EXACTLY RIGHT.  You don't negotiate with a 3 year old.  Who the fark is in charge here?

I do pediatrics and my motto is "I don't negotiate with terrorists."

The few times I have to deal with someone's brat (most kids are tolerable), make me really appreciative of my child-free lifestyle.  I have very little sympathy for people who do a crappy job of parenting, then have to bail their son out of jail or babysit their 14-year-old daughter's child.  It's the crappy parents who serve as a good argument for requiring a Breeding License...

Most kids are actually pretty good. I only get annoyed when I watch a parent pulling the "junior, I'm going to punish you on the count of 10. 9.5, 9.6, 9.7, 9.9, 9.999, 9.9999..." etc. I then use the firm teacher voice I learned from my parents and the kid does as told. The parent then says a self effacing "I can never get him to listen," to which I always think "you've never actually tried to make him listen."


Teachers have told me that they have no trouble telling which of their elementary-school students are going to grow up to be criminals or other failures at life.  Most of their parents are too irresponsible to even bother ever meeting with the teacher, and the ones who do make it amply apparent that they never grew up themselves.

I'll admit that there's the occasional bad seed who turns out rotten in spite of decent parents, but I'd wager in about 95% of the cases, the acorn doesn't fall very far from the oak.  The permanent underclass is basically the same maladjusted idiots perpetuating their farked-up lifestyle over and over and over and over again--it often seems that the people who are the least cut out to be parents are the ones having the most kids.  Most of the decent parents I know limit themselves to 1-2 kids; I personally know of at least 3 alcoholic welfare queens with 4 or more kids, from different fathers of course.
 
2013-04-02 01:33:05 AM  
Pincy:
Oh please stop with the parent martyr complex crap. Most parents have children for selfish reasons.

You got me. I did it for the biweekly free kids meals at Denny's. He drinks water and I eat the food.
 
2013-04-02 01:33:05 AM  

not_an_indigo: frostus: My kids still talk about the time we drove into the city (about 20 miles) to spend the day shopping and roaming the mall and they were acting like asses on the drive down. I told them to cut it out or there would be no mall and when they continued being jerks I pulled into the mall parking lot, made a u-turn and drove straight back home. They were pissed but they had nobody to blame but themselves (and each other).

Did they ever do it again?


Nope. The funny thing is they knew I would do it because I had always stood by my guns in the past, but since my wife had some things she wanted to pick up while we were in town they thought I wouldn't dare. She wasn't happy about it but she stood by my decision.
 
2013-04-02 01:33:54 AM  

Cobataiwan: Rules for dealing with children in public places:

1) You used to be a kid too, and probably bothered people. This is part of life.

2) It helps to imagine that screaming kid as the doctor who cures your cancer or be paying for your retirement.

3) Since all of our entitlements are based on the next generation paying for the last, perhaps we should tax extra those people who are too greedy of free time to not have children of their own to support their generation. I mean we tax rich people who are too greedy, so why not tax those who are spending more than their alottment of leisure time?


Hmm I don't recall getting to deduct extra from my taxes for all those dependent a I don't have. Also, believe it or not, there are some people who should not be parents and we should be rewarding them for not doing so.
 
2013-04-02 01:35:56 AM  

GAT_00: Sensei Can You See: GAT_00: Most of the time, I really don't give a shiat about your kid.  But if they're being a screaming little shiat while I'm trying to eat, or running around a store while you ignore them, there it very much is my interest how you are raising your kid.

It's one thing to ignore them, and I agree with you on that point.

It's not always a simple issue, though. When my son was 3 months old I was flying to Portland from Chicago with him after a Christmas visit. To avoid him having any discomfort with his ears popping, I did what I always did: Started him on a bottle when we started taxiing. That way he would be swallowing when we took off.

But then they postponed takeoff. I stopped feeding him but when we actually took off about 20 minutes later, he didn't want any more formula. About 10 minutes later he started screaming bloody murder as the pressure changed.

He screamed and cried for about 20 minutes, then suddenly belched loudly and almost instantly fell asleep.

During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do? I wasn't ignoring him; I was comforting him and trying to get him to take some formula. But you can't spank a 3-month-old for bad behavior.

You know what you could have done?  Not flown with a 3 month old.  Seriously, what the fark?


I managed to get my kids to 4 and up so far without having to fly with them. That being said, I can see why some people in certain situations might need to do so. My suggestion is that you get some noise canceling headphones and grow up. If you can't deal with the ups and downs of society, stay home.
 
2013-04-02 01:38:59 AM  

Pincy: Oh please stop with the parent martyr complex crap. Most parents have children for selfish reasons.


THIS x 1,000,000.

I have no issue with people who want to be parents, have the maturity to raise children, and are willing to work hard to make sure their kids grow up to be decent people.

Unfortunately, I know way too many stupid losers who become pregnant because they want welfare benefits, or idiot jerks who father kids because they're too lazy to go buy a box of condoms.  I had a temp job once at a place that processed child-support payments, and it's amazing how many guys were paying support to six brainless welfare hos while working part-time at Wal*Mart.  And those were the responsible guys--the truly evil ones never pay support or even go as far as buying a box of diapers for even one of their baby-mommies.  I used to live in a trailer court where there were several women who'd leave their 3-5 kids home alone while they went to the local bar to find some other dumb-schmuck semen donor.

Parenthood is a voluntary status.  Nobody points a gun and forces you to procreate--it's hard to get a decent erection with a gun at your temple.  If you're gonna fark, either get *reliable* birth control or at least have the maturity to deal with the consequences if you slip one past the goalie...
 
2013-04-02 01:52:25 AM  
To moderate my previous post a bit, I understand that accidents do happen and people become parents when they don't expect it.  When that happens, though, about the only decent response is to grow up and take responsibility for the life you brought into existence.  Running off to a different state to circumvent child support and never visiting your child isn't being responsible.

My brother is a hard-core stoner who never wanted kids.  When his girlfriend became pregnant and decided to keep the baby, he did a lot of growing up in a short time.  Even though he never gave up his stoner lifestyle, he did do a damned good job of raising my niece even when it meant him having to make a few sacrifices.

BTW, I used to have an interest in reading about serial killers and how they got that way.  There were a few bad seeds who grew up evil even with good parents, but in the overwhelming majority of the time, it was usually because of a neglectful mother, a physically-abusive drunk for a father, or religiously-fanatical parents.  You know, the same old tired shiat over and over and over again--I think it would be cost-effective if we'd just offer messed-up people a lifetime supply of alcohol or heroin if they'd just get sterilized already...
 
2013-04-02 01:55:03 AM  

Moonfisher: My suggestion is that you get some noise canceling headphones and grow up. If you can't deal with the ups and downs of society, stay home.


Doesn't that cut both ways?  If the parents of noisy kids can't deal with the dirty looks from strangers, shouldn't they also stay home?
 
2013-04-02 01:56:29 AM  

cptjeff: cs30109: What are you supposed to do, stay home for 3 years and never fly anywhere?

See, there are these things known as "cars". They are sized so one family unit can travel in them, making whatever noises they please, without disturbing other people.

You are expected to act appropriately to the setting. If you child is not capable of acting appropriately in that setting, you should not be bringing them into that setting. Inconvenient for you? Tough. You're the one who made the decision to have the kid.


That's the problem, we really don't expect people to act appropriately any more, or at least we don't do anything about it when they don't. In the US we are much more concerned about protecting an individuals right to be a douchebag than everyone else's right to not have to tolerate it.
 
2013-04-02 02:06:58 AM  

Psycat: BTW, I used to have an interest in reading about serial killers and how they got that way.  There were a few bad seeds who grew up evil even with good parents, but in the overwhelming majority of the time, it was usually because of a neglectful mother, a physically-abusive drunk for a father, or religiously-fanatical parents.


Man, I'm way behind on my killing spree.
 
2013-04-02 02:08:42 AM  

Pincy: cptjeff: cs30109: What are you supposed to do, stay home for 3 years and never fly anywhere?

See, there are these things known as "cars". They are sized so one family unit can travel in them, making whatever noises they please, without disturbing other people.

You are expected to act appropriately to the setting. If you child is not capable of acting appropriately in that setting, you should not be bringing them into that setting. Inconvenient for you? Tough. You're the one who made the decision to have the kid.

That's the problem, we really don't expect people to act appropriately any more, or at least we don't do anything about it when they don't. In the US we are much more concerned about protecting an individuals right to be a douchebag than everyone else's right to not have to tolerate it.


well, i firmly believe in negative reinforcement.
if people aren't acting properly, they probably aren't going to change their behavior unless somebody corrects them.
simple advice given cheerfully can escalate into eviscerating condemnation if the reaction demands.

of course i am not mean in front of kids unless given no choice, but i will tell they might get a whooping if their daddy gets a black eye or something.
 
2013-04-02 02:09:11 AM  
What gets me about this tiresome debate about kids on an airplane is that about 90% of you Farkers just don't get it.  It always turns into a I-hate-kids vs. a deal-with-my-bratty-kids debate, which is a stupid thing.  Neither side is absolutely right; it's more of an issue of who's being more reasonable in a certain situation.

If it's some ultra-sensitive douchebag who sues the airline because he barely heard a child on the other end of the plane burp a couple of times, then the kid-hater is the asshole who's being unreasonable.  If it's some brainless Homer Simpson who can't understand why total strangers would be upset that his kid barfed in their lap, then the kid-lover is the asshole who's being unreasonable.

Simply put, it's not some sort of false dichotomy of kid-haters vs. kid-lovers even though you Farkers keep portraying it that way.  It's like I have to smack your heads together and assert that "Certs is a farking candy mint and Certs is also a farking breath mint, so quit being so militantly one-sided already"...
 
2013-04-02 02:11:56 AM  

RelativeEase: The article didnt seem very condenscending to me. You guys are sensitive. I have two kids and kids are assholes, thats life.


Thank you for your honesty. If only more parents could be honest about their kids.
 
2013-04-02 02:13:36 AM  

frostus: Psycat: BTW, I used to have an interest in reading about serial killers and how they got that way.  There were a few bad seeds who grew up evil even with good parents, but in the overwhelming majority of the time, it was usually because of a neglectful mother, a physically-abusive drunk for a father, or religiously-fanatical parents.

Man, I'm way behind on my killing spree.


If you really did have an awful childhood, at least you're smart enough to acknowledge it.  Unless you have an overpowering urge to have children, you might want to seriously consider not being a parent, especially if you think you'll be just as bad to your kids as your parents were.  Or, in the words of Barney Fife, "Nip it in the bud!" (Snip it in the bud?)  My parents were pretty good, but my childhood was awful in many other ways--I just consider it being handed a "Get Out of Parenthood Free" card in life...
 
2013-04-02 02:16:50 AM  

Psycat: frostus: Psycat: BTW, I used to have an interest in reading about serial killers and how they got that way.  There were a few bad seeds who grew up evil even with good parents, but in the overwhelming majority of the time, it was usually because of a neglectful mother, a physically-abusive drunk for a father, or religiously-fanatical parents.

Man, I'm way behind on my killing spree.

If you really did have an awful childhood, at least you're smart enough to acknowledge it.  Unless you have an overpowering urge to have children, you might want to seriously consider not being a parent, especially if you think you'll be just as bad to your kids as your parents were.  Or, in the words of Barney Fife, "Nip it in the bud!" (Snip it in the bud?)  My parents were pretty good, but my childhood was awful in many other ways--I just consider it being handed a "Get Out of Parenthood Free" card in life...


Too late - four kids (current ages 33, 31, 27, 21).

/five grandchildren so far
 
2013-04-02 02:21:37 AM  

frostus: Psycat: frostus: Psycat: BTW, I used to have an interest in reading about serial killers and how they got that way.  There were a few bad seeds who grew up evil even with good parents, but in the overwhelming majority of the time, it was usually because of a neglectful mother, a physically-abusive drunk for a father, or religiously-fanatical parents.

Man, I'm way behind on my killing spree.

If you really did have an awful childhood, at least you're smart enough to acknowledge it.  Unless you have an overpowering urge to have children, you might want to seriously consider not being a parent, especially if you think you'll be just as bad to your kids as your parents were.  Or, in the words of Barney Fife, "Nip it in the bud!" (Snip it in the bud?)  My parents were pretty good, but my childhood was awful in many other ways--I just consider it being handed a "Get Out of Parenthood Free" card in life...

Too late - four kids (current ages 33, 31, 27, 21).

/five grandchildren so far


Hopefully no serial killers in the lot.  I do know people who have had bad childhoods and then turned into decent parents against the odds.  If that's your case, more power to ya.  On the other hand, if somebody who had a bad childhood decided to give up on parenthood, I don't think any reasonable person would blame them...
 
2013-04-02 02:21:49 AM  
I used to be annoyed by kids in public, screaming in planes, etc. then I had one. Now, for some reason, it doesn't bother me any more.

I used to think I knew how I would raise my kid, then I had one. Looking back, a lot of the things I thought I knew about how things would be were wrong.

A lot of these threads never take into consideration...the love you feel for your kid. There's nothing like it. No, it's not the same as what you feel for your nieces, nephews, dog, cat, or spouse. That's why people with kids tell people without them that they have no idea what they are talking about. Nothing comes close. The way you love your kid and the way they love you, like you are everything in their little world, is a very powerful thing.

Like Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face. Until you experience it for yourself, your ideas on what you would do in certain situations are hearsay and laughable. It's always so easy in a vacuum, just make sure you come back after you have your own kids and see how you do.

Oh, and people who say you can't fly on a plane with a baby...buy some headphones.
 
2013-04-02 02:22:43 AM  

baska: I raised mine, so excuse me while I laugh at the butthurt breeders.  Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.  So, here's mine about the parents who raise their kids like they'll break.  Model respectful behavior, demonstrate the art of choice, but put the hammer down when necessary.  Who's running the show?  There's a reason you're the adult.

/every time I hear some muppet say 'good job' because their kid managed not to break his face it's like biting tinfoil


OMFG THIS!!!

Your kids do not need to be praised for every single thing they do. They need to learn that it is expected of them to act civilized and they aren't going to get a cookie for merely doing so.
 
2013-04-02 02:25:30 AM  
I'm a parent. My child is quantifiably better than the vast majority of children. She's probably better than your child. I formed most of my parenting philosophy before having kids by watching you cretins fark it up, and probably 90% of it was spot on.

Get off your crosses, and realize that being a parent doesn't make you special, doesn't give you any special insight or knowledge that can't be gleaned from basic observation, and sure as hell doesn't make you any smarter. Raising a child mainly just proves that you aren't (too much) dumber than a toothless 15 year old in West Virginia. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
2013-04-02 02:31:01 AM  

TheOriginalEd:

God I hate you people and your awful opinions.


img2.joyreactor.com
 
2013-04-02 02:33:07 AM  
If your kid annoys me on an airplane, expect them to know every swear word from ass to c*nt to sh*t and f*ck by the time the flight lands.  I've found little kids honestly LOVE the swear word lesson.
 
2013-04-02 02:36:54 AM  

Pincy:

I've been in Paris for the past few weeks and the children here are the most well behaved I have ever seen. I have not witnessed one melt down in a restaurant or tantrum in a public place. Two hour ride on a train sitting across from a 10 year old and not a peep.

It can be done.

Sure -- just threaten to take them to Paris if they misbehave. Follow up if they continue.  Putain de merde!
 
2013-04-02 02:37:43 AM  

zippie26: A lot of these threads never take into consideration...the love you feel for your kid. There's nothing like it. No, it's not the same as what you feel for your nieces, nephews, dog, cat, or spouse. That's why people with kids tell people without them that they have no idea what they are talking about. Nothing comes close. The way you love your kid and the way they love you, like you are everything in their little world, is a very powerful thing.



What a lot of parents fail to take into consideration in these threads is that asshole kids and their parents do more than just cry for a few minutes in a confined area.

But since I'm incapable of being a parent, I can never know what 'real love' is, so I'll have to settle for a type of love that doesn't require praising a kid for knocking a cripple to the floor in the middle of Walmart.
 
2013-04-02 02:48:57 AM  

MNguy: archichris:

The kid's parents are passing them out to all the passengers?  Awesome!

There are like ten zones in which air travel is pleasant. In the rest of the world its a nightmare all the time. Packing some noise cancelling headphones is rule #1 if you dont like noises. Some giant noise deadening ear covers are better. Really why should Human Civilization collapse in 30 years just because you dont like kids?  Not worth it. It would be far simpler ...

What are these 'ten zones' you speak of?  It's always unpleasant.  But it's made worse by inconsiderate asswipes.


            Euro-zone, north america, japan, rich middle eastern countries, pan pacific first world airlines, etc...... Places where the airline is professionally run, where you can pay for upgrades because they are available, modern security, etc..... When you get outside the westernized corporate airlines if you arent on a private plane owned by the dictator your pretty much in steerage.

Now I will admit that being on a commuter flight going into NYC is pretty close to as bad as flying in and around bosnia, but seriously people talking about how their 'comfort' is being effected on an airline need to get stranded in a third world hell hole by a mechanical failure and sleep in some bushes near the runway while propeller aircraft taxi nearby. If they are so spoiled that a crying baby on a flight is too much to bear, they can always book first class or buy a set of headphones.

Luckily for me my kids are champion travelers  I've towed trailers cross country with my 7 year old and while im distracted by the need to keep the toad out of the next lane he is happily watching dvd's and playing with the ipad etc.....  We took my daughter to Venice when she was 5, she was an instant airplane addict. When we landed and took the water-taxi to town everyone was beat, except her, she memorized the location of three shoe stores on the walk to the condo and as soon as we were unpacked she was ready to go shoe shopping.
 
2013-04-02 02:55:08 AM  

the ha ha guy: zippie26: A lot of these threads never take into consideration...the love you feel for your kid. There's nothing like it. No, it's not the same as what you feel for your nieces, nephews, dog, cat, or spouse. That's why people with kids tell people without them that they have no idea what they are talking about. Nothing comes close. The way you love your kid and the way they love you, like you are everything in their little world, is a very powerful thing.


What a lot of parents fail to take into consideration in these threads is that asshole kids and their parents do more than just cry for a few minutes in a confined area.

But since I'm incapable of being a parent, I can never know what 'real love' is, so I'll have to settle for a type of love that doesn't require praising a kid for knocking a cripple to the floor in the middle of Walmart.


According to the logic in this thread, that cripple needed to stay the hell out of Walmart lest he get knocked on his ass. People who get in the way of the Cheetos display should know they got it coming.
 
2013-04-02 02:55:09 AM  

Beowoolfie: archichris: But really , kids scream, the wind blows, farts stink, and someday those kids will pay for your prostate exam. SO get over it.

Well sure. And when my kid started screaming in a restaurant (or when I needed to fart!) we'd step outside. So the innocent people around me don't have to get over it. This is hard?

Okay, admittedly it is hard on airliners, which is why we didn't put the kid on one until he was old enough to behave. Farting is a problem on airliners, too.


I readily separate the parenting world into good ones and bad ones. But the kids dont know any better. If the parents arent taking them outside, saying something to them will just embarrass them and they may take it out on the kids. Since you have exactly zero authority over them the best thing you can do is remove it from your list of irritations.

Most parents I see with crying kids on airplanes would happily be anyplace else in the world at that moment. Just getting to the plane is an ordeal with a small child. I almost attacked a delta booking agent once because our flight was cancelled and I was travelling with my elderly mother, my pregnant wife, my 6 year old, and two minor cousins.......and he intentionally held us up until all the outbound flights were full then denied us a hotel voucher. He had a really shiatty attitude about families, said there was no chance to keep us all together so he wasnt even going to try, gave us standy tickets for the next day. 

Fark You Craig Williams at Kennedy.
 
2013-04-02 02:55:20 AM  

lostcat:

It was really easy to be a perfect parent before I had a kid. Once you have a kid, being a parent is like repairing a plane in mid-flight, you're just trying to keep everything from crashing to the ground.


www.spidersweb.pl
 
2013-04-02 02:56:43 AM  

Doc Daneeka: I saw that article. People without kids really shouldn't presume to give parenting advice to anyone.  Bruni is like someone trying to give aviation tips to pilots based on the fact that he loves near an airport and sees planes flying overhead often.


My advice, to cover both subjects, is to, "Pull out/pull up before it's too late!"
 
2013-04-02 02:57:56 AM  

Pincy: baska: I raised mine, so excuse me while I laugh at the butthurt breeders.  Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.  So, here's mine about the parents who raise their kids like they'll break.  Model respectful behavior, demonstrate the art of choice, but put the hammer down when necessary.  Who's running the show?  There's a reason you're the adult.

/every time I hear some muppet say 'good job' because their kid managed not to break his face it's like biting tinfoil

OMFG THIS!!!

Your kids do not need to be praised for every single thing they do. They need to learn that it is expected of them to act civilized and they aren't going to get a cookie for merely doing so.


You sound fat. Good job you!
 
2013-04-02 02:59:54 AM  

GeneralJim: lostcat: It was really easy to be a perfect parent before I had a kid. Once you have a kid, being a parent is like repairing a plane in mid-flight, you're just trying to keep everything from crashing to the ground.

[www.spidersweb.pl image 400x400]


+1 to both of you..... but it helps to have good genes, smarter kids are easier to parent. Also try pretending you are poor, makes it easier not to spoil them.....lol
 
2013-04-02 03:03:57 AM  

0Icky0: Doc Daneeka: I saw that article. People without kids really shouldn't presume to give parenting advice to anyone.  Bruni is like someone trying to give aviation tips to pilots based on the fact that he loves near an airport and sees planes flying overhead often.

My advice, to cover both subjects, is to, "Pull out/pull up before it's too late!"


Nah dude, if your a decent person kids will change your life for the better.

Half the hate on this thread is from immature man-children who cant imagine giving up their toys for the sake of someone else.

But you cannot argue the simple truth that the asshole who hates kids will one day depend entirely on our kids(assuming you have or plan) for everything he has, then he'll die and our kids will get his stuff anyway. If he isnt planning on making a meaning-full contribution to the species maybe it would be best for him to reduce the population by offing himself in some sort of penis pump disaster.
 
2013-04-02 03:04:13 AM  
Main issue as I see it is that most of you, who fart out a genetic gold lumps think that you just keep on as before
with you Yuppie skate board life's and do as you always did.

The generation before, actually planed life around the small parasites and did not fly with baby's or go rafting
and im sure that's it possible to make the call, replicate or have fun, perhaps it helps if you in fact know how much the cost is in schools ect.

Just forget about having kids and the rest of the world be more happy
 
2013-04-02 03:08:26 AM  
There are three types of people in this thread:

1. People who aren't parents, but who think they could control a child at all times and keep it from annoying other adults (because to them, that's the sign of a good parent).

2. People who are parents and who have learned to crush their children's will in order to avoid being labelled a bad parent because the don't "have control over" their kids. These parents will go on to raise kids with all kinds of control issues.

3. People who are parents and who don't mind being given the evil eye by other adults occasionally, because the they don't hover over their kid 24/7 making sure that they are doing everything the way the adults around them want them to.

People in the U.S. are so hyper-critical about each other, and especially when it comes to judging other people who have kids.
 
2013-04-02 03:12:26 AM  

archichris: Since you have exactly zero authority over them the best thing you can do is remove it from your list of irritations.



Crying children is irritating, yes, but I've only encountered that a few times. Far more often, the "irritation" is theft, violence, etc, but only one parent I've seen actually took responsibility for their child without being compelled to do so by an employee or police officer.

Since I'm meant to ignore these "irritations", what do you suggest I do in order to ignore a child who steals my cane and hits me with it in the back of the leg, and the mother who defended it to the manager and insisted on letting the kid keep my cane?
 
2013-04-02 03:13:37 AM  

the ha ha guy: Gyrfalcon: As to the anecdotes of kids running amok like hijackers in training up and down the aisles, kicking seatbacks as if they were en route to NFL kickers' training camp and the rest, well, perhaps you fragile grownup snowflakes should spring for business class if you are experiencing such horrors on a routine basis.


Last year, some brat in a store yanked my cane out of my hand, hit me in the back of the legs, and ran off. When the manager tracked down the kid and his mother (I was sitting in the aisle waiting for another employee to bring a scooter), the mother told the manager "why should I care? It's my son's cane now".

So, should the parent be forced to take responsibility for teaching their kid not to commit assault against random people for no other reason than "that person has something I want"? Or was it my fault for not being a fragile grownup snowflake unable to handle a metal cane to the back of my legs?


Yes, indeed, those are exactly the same situation. Indeed, a bratty assaultive child who attacks you in a store and steals a personal possession is precisely the same as an unhappy infant in pain who is crying on board an airplane. They are, verily, identical situations, and you should handle them in precisely the same way. Clearly there is not the slightest bit of difference between the two situations, or the two children in question, and they should in fact be dealt with in exactly the same way.

Because clearly you are too retarded an adult to be allowed out in public without a minimum of two caregivers to explain the difference to you; and probably you need at least three more to help you keep your lungs inflated and your legs moving independently of one another when you travel outside to yell at clouds.
 
2013-04-02 03:15:12 AM  

GeneralJim: TheOriginalEd: God I hate you people and your awful opinions.

[img2.joyreactor.com image 480x348]


*yoink*
 
2013-04-02 03:15:17 AM  
Aw jeez not this shiat again.

Here is something that NEVER gets brought up in the parents vs non-parents argument.  Did everyone magically forget what it was like to be a CHILD themselves?  Sure you're not going to remember being an infant, but I remember as far back as two and a half.  I remember when I farked up.  I remember how my parents reacted.  I remember what I could have done better, and now as an adult can look back and evaluate what they could have done better.  How is none of that experience relevant?!  I'm not *trying* to troll, but I'm genuinely curious.

I really hate the animosity that goes on with this argument.  Not all parents are terrible and we should really focus on recognizing the good parents.  We should also focus on being good adult role models ourselves.  But parents, just because I haven't given birth (and found out about a year ago that I can't anyway) doesn't mean that my thoughts are invalid.  I still remember if I acted up in public, my mom would scoop me up and we'd go straight home, even if it meant she didn't finish her shopping.  Boy did you not want that to happen.  My mother-in-law did the same thing when my husband was a kid.  How is that experience not relevant in understanding childcare?  I would do that EXACT same thing as a parent.  They clearly could do it.

/Teachers deal with 30 kids at a time.  Don't tell me that isn't difficult.
//I've been there, and I learned a TON about working with kids (and you can't tell me I didn't)
///slashies
 
2013-04-02 03:16:18 AM  

archichris:

+1 to both of you..... but it helps to have good genes, smarter kids are easier to parent. Also try pretending you are poor, makes it easier not to spoil them.....lol

I watched four kids being raised.  Their parents wanted to go to nice restaurants, and looked at child discipline as an investment.  If one of the kids acted up, a parent and the offending kid left the restaurant.  The kid did not come back in that trip, and missed a meal.  The parent (on a rotating basis) who went outside got their meal in a Styrofoam box, for later.  Sucks.  Their kids NEVER got what they wanted by being dicks about it.  It did not take very long until that type of thing didn't happen at all.  GENIUS!

Of course, you have to train them in restaurants, as taking a kid outside of a plane is a bit drastic.

 
2013-04-02 03:21:35 AM  

the ha ha guy: Since I'm meant to ignore these "irritations", what do you suggest I do in order to ignore a child who steals my cane and hits me with it in the back of the leg, and the mother who defended it to the manager and insisted on letting the kid keep my cane?


Seriously? Grow a pair and demand your cane back. Call the police if the manager is not adequate authority. No one is defending kids who assault other people or their asshole mothers.
 
2013-04-02 03:22:43 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Yes, indeed, those are exactly the same situation. Indeed, a bratty assaultive child who attacks you in a store and steals a personal possession is precisely the same as an unhappy infant in pain who is crying on board an airplane.


Try reading the post I was responding to.

Gyrfalcon: As to the anecdotes of kids running amok like hijackers in training up and down the aisles, kicking seatbacks as if they were en route to NFL kickers' training camp and the rest, well, perhaps you fragile grownup snowflakes should spring for business class if you are experiencing such horrors on a routine basis.


So yes, I do think that one instance of running amok and causing physical pain to others is equivalent to another.
 
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