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(The New York Times)   I don't have any kids. But I'm a condescending urban douchebag who writes for the New York Times, so I know more about how you should be raising your kids than you do   (nytimes.com) divider line 616
    More: Asinine, Honey Boo Boo, helicopter parenting, The Modern Parents, chicken fingers, ultimatum, Super Bowl rings, anthems  
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23312 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Apr 2013 at 8:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-01 11:38:55 PM

Gwendolyn: Why let your kids pick out what to wear themselves? Because it doesn't really freaking matter what a young kid wears and it is an easy way  them develop self-efficacy. Why you would fight a kid over what they want to put on is the part that makes no sense.


I came here to say the same goddamn thing. I don't care what my kids wear, as long as it's clean. My daughter just went to the store last week in a Disney princesses t-shirt, a purple tutu, and her brother's rain boots. She was happy, and I didn't give a shiat.

Nadie_AZ: While I have no kids of my own, I have many I can (and sometimes do) lease for the weekend: 11 actual nieces and nephews, whom I'll be with this Easter Sunday, and perhaps twice that number of honorary ones. I have put in my time around tots and teens, and enjoy them. I have seen my share of parenting, and am not certain what to make of it.

Until you actually raise one or are actively raising one, your anecdotal 'I spent a Sunday holiday with them' means nothing to me or any other parent out there.

God what a horrible article.


And this too. I don't need the advice of someone who hasn't walked in those shoes. They don't know WTF they're talking about. It's not as hard as some people think, but it's not as easy as some think it is, either.
 
2013-04-01 11:39:00 PM

Milo Minderbinder: Nana's Vibrator: Milo Minderbinder: Nana's Vibrator: Milo Minderbinder: Nana's Vibrator: cptjeff: cs30109: What are you supposed to do, stay home for 3 years and never fly anywhere?

See, there are these things known as "cars". They are sized so one family unit can travel in them, making whatever noises they please, without disturbing other people.

You are expected to act appropriately to the setting. If you child is not capable of acting appropriately in that setting, you should not be bringing them into that setting. Inconvenient for you? Tough. You're the one who made the decision to have the kid.

And this is why most kids who fly do behave.  I warn my kids that people such as yourself are terrible people in that you condescend in an attempt to prove yourself to be better than a toddler.  And when my kids behave better than someone such as yourself, you are proven to be worse than a child.  We all remove our top hats and monocles and have a good laugh at your expense.  But alsa, as one of us checks our pocket watch, we notice it's time for tea.

I imagine your seven naked filthy house apes are shiating all over your trailer as you type half-witicisms on fark.

I'll let that ape comment go because I don't have a profile picture, ignorant f*ck.

Who needs a picture? I know a crappy parent when I see one.

All you see is rage when your surroundings aren't whatever it is to which you think you're entitled.  Keep living that way.  Always good to have people to laugh at.

It's not rage, it's pity, particularly when your baby-momma brings home Wild Turkey and breath mints in an obscene attempt to create another snot-nosed little bastard with you.


I'm fine layin' the pain train down on that chunnel.  It makes it OK when we name him Milo, Jr. after her limp husband, who for some reason pities me.  Part of me thinks he's got a point, since it makes me a tard wifef*cker.  But then I think...nah.  farkin' tard wife is my business.  And business is potato.
 
2013-04-01 11:41:01 PM

garkola: You know, the only problem with humanity is these little ones. If we get rid of them, we'll reduce our carbon footprint tremendously, preserving the Earth for future generations. Oh wait.


If everybody stopped having babies, then all human problems from starvation to warfare would be completely solved when the last human died of old age.
 
2013-04-01 11:42:58 PM

EdNortonsTwin: We were all kids once. For the whiners who dont like kids that make noise, well its an unfortunate bit of business... that your parents had any.


I didn't ask to be born, and I'm doing my part by not breeding.
 
2013-04-01 11:48:10 PM

EdNortonsTwin: We were all kids once. For the whiners who dont like kids that make noise, well its an unfortunate bit of business... that your parents had any.


I think the important principle for everybody, parents and non-parents alike, is:

Be reasonable.

I think it's reasonable to deal with an infant screaming for a few minutes on an airplane because he/she is having trouble equalizing the pressure in his/her ears.  I don't think it's reasonable to have a hyperactive kid kicking the back of your seat all through an 8-hour flight to Europe.

Trouble is, there's plenty of unreasonable people out there.  Some are ultra-sensitive whiners who biatch because the olive oil in their gourmet food came from the wrong valley in France.  Some are thick-headed morons who can't seem to grasp the concept that their kid running around with a lighter and setting other peoples' clothes on fire might upset some folks.

Unfortunately, we are in a highly litigious society.  In the Good Ol' Days, unreasonable morons were tied to a rock and thrown in the nearest bog.  Nowadays, before you bog some idiot, you have to file an environmental impact statement and all that crap.  I propose creating the Politeness Gestapo whose job is to politely correct stupid, unreasonable people, perhaps with a polite nightstick on the noggin if necessary, and maybe a trip to Moron Re-Education Camp for the hard-core cases...
 
2013-04-01 11:49:04 PM

Gyrfalcon: As to the anecdotes of kids running amok like hijackers in training up and down the aisles, kicking seatbacks as if they were en route to NFL kickers' training camp and the rest, well, perhaps you fragile grownup snowflakes should spring for business class if you are experiencing such horrors on a routine basis.



Last year, some brat in a store yanked my cane out of my hand, hit me in the back of the legs, and ran off. When the manager tracked down the kid and his mother (I was sitting in the aisle waiting for another employee to bring a scooter), the mother told the manager "why should I care? It's my son's cane now".

So, should the parent be forced to take responsibility for teaching their kid not to commit assault against random people for no other reason than "that person has something I want"? Or was it my fault for not being a fragile grownup snowflake unable to handle a metal cane to the back of my legs?
 
2013-04-01 11:49:10 PM
Any time I'm walking past or sitting near a crying, fussing young'un in public, I'll look over and say, directly to the kid 'Oh NOOO! It's the worst thing that's ever happened to anybody ever!  It's so horrible! We should ALL start crying!!' And then I fake cry at them.

The wee sprog is almost always so bewildered/amused/terrified that they forget what the problem was and shut the fark up.

/I have yet to meet an unappreciative parent.
 
2013-04-01 11:50:22 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: I bet anyone dollars to doughnuts that if/when the author of TFA has kids he will do most of the things he whines about and then possibly go on to write an article about how unfriendly the world is to parents.


Cute, except then you made the bet unworkable with the word, "probably". Put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet you US$1000, AND I'll pay for the escrow service to hold the money, that Frank Bruni DOES NOT publish an article about how unfriendly the world is to parents in the next 10 years. I'll even agree to cancel the bet if he has no acknowledged children by April 1, 2023 but then you pay me back for the escrow fee. Deal?

I've known many people with the same attitude of TFA, including myself, and not one of them has changed as you suggest after having kids. Instead, they raised well-behaved, responsible kids.
 
2013-04-01 11:51:07 PM
I raised mine, so excuse me while I laugh at the butthurt breeders.  Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.  So, here's mine about the parents who raise their kids like they'll break.  Model respectful behavior, demonstrate the art of choice, but put the hammer down when necessary.  Who's running the show?  There's a reason you're the adult.

/every time I hear some muppet say 'good job' because their kid managed not to break his face it's like biting tinfoil
 
2013-04-01 11:52:56 PM

Pokey.Clyde: Popular Opinion: should you have to get over me taking a dump in your face?

Yeah, because that and a crying child are exactly the same thing, aren't they short bus?


again, both are caused by inconsiderate adults.
 
2013-04-01 11:53:32 PM

rustypouch: EdNortonsTwin: We were all kids once. For the whiners who dont like kids that make noise, well its an unfortunate bit of business... that your parents had any.

I didn't ask to be born, and I'm doing my part by not breeding.


That's cool. Less competition for my kids when they take over the world.
 
2013-04-01 11:55:49 PM
While 90% of that article was pure douche, as someone that's handled a classroom full of six- to eight-year-olds I'm going to have to give him his initial point of "you are an adult, when it comes to punishable situations, it is not a negotiation".

If you say, "stop that" and they don't stop, have a standard punishment and actually apply it.  Same for second offense, with a more severe punishment, and the third.  If you haven't reached "remove the kid from the activity or situation in question" as a punishment by strike three (I usually go with the first or second, since, again, classroom-full of the wee buggers) then you are officially doing it wrong.

The problem that I suspect a lot of parents have is that they seem to think that, because kids do have personalities and some things work differently on different kids, that discipline is some sort of arcane endeavor beyond their expertise and they straight give up on trying entirely, or they get into this weird cycle of trying to outsmart the little dude, who has nothing better to do with his time than to come up with new ways to tread the edge.  Have a system, stick with it, and if the kid comes up with a way to "game your system" then good for them, don't worry too much about it.  Just make sure that one of the explicit rules is that if the kid is bothering other people, you start counting strikes.

To use an accurate (but somewhat offensive to cat people) metaphor, a five-year-old is basically an untrained Labrador Retriever.  Do what you'd to do teach a hyperactive dog to shut up on command, and trust me, a kid, being smarter, will also pick it up.
 
2013-04-01 11:57:34 PM

namegoeshere: Arthur Jumbles: namegoeshere: cptjeff: Mithiwithi: nd if an adult can't deal with a few screaming babies for a while

There's a difference between a screaming baby in an open space where people can leave and a baby screaming for 10 hours in a tightly packed tube with no possibility of escape.

It's incredibly annoying. If you cannot get your child to shut up, don't fly. I don't care how inconvenient it is for you- you don't get to make the lives of 150 other people a living hell. Short and quickly hushed outbursts won't piss too many people off. But when you let your little grub drone on like an air raid siren, it should go with the checked baggage or not at all.


Are you kidding me? Wow. It must be great to have a life that is so comfortable and easy that a child crying near you is "a living hell".

Maybe crying babies are like cilantro.... some people don't mind them much but for others their cry is like a knife through the skull. For me, the sound of a baby crying actually makes me feel pain, it is painful. Normally, it's not too much a problem because if a baby starts crying near me I just leave. But if I'm trapped on a plane with one it is like hell, the crying is like a knife, there's the hopeless feeling because you know you can't do anything to stop it from crying, and when it does stop you just spend the whole rest of the flight terrified that it's going to start up again.

I've got a great pair of headphones from Bose - the screaming just fades away into so much background noise. I highly recommend.


The kid's parents are passing them out to all the passengers?  Awesome!
 
2013-04-01 11:59:18 PM

Gwendolyn: Why let your kids pick out what to wear themselves? Because it doesn't really freaking matter what a young kid wears and it is an easy way  them develop self-efficacy. Why you would fight a kid over what they want to put on is the part that makes no sense.


because a hell of a lot of people are invested into the idea that every aspect of their kids lives are a reflection of them.  And yet, they usually limit this to clothing, silly crap that they shower them with and barking about grades but skip the whole "teach them good manners" thing.
 
2013-04-01 11:59:21 PM

cptjeff: huge chunk of us completely lack any self awareness


*snicker*ya don't say
www.lolroflmao.com
 
2013-04-02 12:01:57 AM
I suspect that Subby smells of chewed Oreos, baby powder, and doo-doo.
 
2013-04-02 12:02:00 AM

Doc Daneeka: I saw that article. People without kids guns really shouldn't presume to give parenting  gun control advice to anyone.  Bruni is like someone trying to give aviation tips to pilots based on the fact that he loves near an airport and sees planes flying overhead often.



 I saw that article. People without kids military experience really shouldn't presume to give parenting  war advice to anyone. Bruni is like someone trying to give aviation tips to pilots based on the fact that he loves near an airport and sees planes flying overhead often.

That works surprisingly well.
 
2013-04-02 12:05:07 AM

Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.


Feel free to go find a childless society in which to live. Actually we would all be happier if your parents had done the same.

But really , kids scream, the wind blows, farts stink, and someday those kids will pay for your prostate exam. SO get over it.

But by far the most important reason that a parent says to a child....."this is your last chance" is because we are constantly looking for that moment when the child becomes sentient enough to bargain. Before that moment they just scream and you have no choice but to pacify....which encourages more screaming later, or punish....which doesnt work, or distract....which works great but most parents are so worn out they can't manage it.

Once the kids are old enough to bargain you have it made because you control all the fun stuff......

want ice cream?  eat your veggies. Want more tv time? brush your teeth. etc......

It isnt the fault of the kids or of me that some parents arent smart enough or strong enough to manage the bargaining. So you will have to get used to it.

Think of it this way, if you were really so important that you should be protected from crying children, you probably would be rich and famous and be eating in a restaurant that doesnt allow kids or in a private dining room with some VIPs

But you arent, so get over it.
 
2013-04-02 12:06:24 AM
What I think is really, really stupid is that the TSA folks are looking for, among other things, drugs.  IMO, the TSA folks should be checking bags to ensure that you have an adequate supply of Vicodin or marijuana brownies for the flight.  I don't do shiatty corporate drugs anymore so getting hammered at an airport bar isn't an option for me, and the last few domestic flights I had were so short they didn't offer any libations at all.

Seriously, if you're going to be crammed into a tiny seat, perhaps with whiny kids or an annoying dork for a seat mate, being stoned or buzzed should be a requirement, even if you're flying at an altitude that's about 20' above the rest of the aircraft.  How else could you derive any entertainment value out of Sky Mall magazine?  And if parents do have to bring an annoying kid with them, what better way to win the sympathy of *ahem* fellow travelers than by passing out Oxycontin to them?
 
2013-04-02 12:10:51 AM

MNguy: namegoeshere: Arthur Jumbles: namegoeshere: cptjeff: Mithiwithi: nd if an adult can't deal with a few screaming babies for a while

There's a difference between a screaming baby in an open space where people can leave and a baby screaming for 10 hours in a tightly packed tube with no possibility of escape.

It's incredibly annoying. If you cannot get your child to shut up, don't fly. I don't care how inconvenient it is for you- you don't get to make the lives of 150 other people a living hell. Short and quickly hushed outbursts won't piss too many people off. But when you let your little grub drone on like an air raid siren, it should go with the checked baggage or not at all.


Are you kidding me? Wow. It must be great to have a life that is so comfortable and easy that a child crying near you is "a living hell".

Maybe crying babies are like cilantro.... some people don't mind them much but for others their cry is like a knife through the skull. For me, the sound of a baby crying actually makes me feel pain, it is painful. Normally, it's not too much a problem because if a baby starts crying near me I just leave. But if I'm trapped on a plane with one it is like hell, the crying is like a knife, there's the hopeless feeling because you know you can't do anything to stop it from crying, and when it does stop you just spend the whole rest of the flight terrified that it's going to start up again.

I've got a great pair of headphones from Bose - the screaming just fades away into so much background noise. I highly recommend.

The kid's parents are passing them out to all the passengers?  Awesome!


There are like ten zones in which air travel is pleasant. In the rest of the world its a nightmare all the time. Packing some noise cancelling headphones is rule #1 if you dont like noises. Some giant noise deadening ear covers are better. Really why should Human Civilization collapse in 30 years just because you dont like kids?  Not worth it. It would be far simpler and more productive to take all the childless people down to the docks and push them off...Because we know that when you get old the rest of us will pay a disproportionate amount of your elderly tantrum care because you never sired any children to help cover the costs. If we take you out now.....we are ahead in the long run.

There is nothing more useless than a potentially capable parent who decides not to have kids......

Because trust me there are ten morons having kids for every capable parent.
 
2013-04-02 12:11:49 AM

GAT_00: You know what you could have done?  Not flown with a 3 month old.  Seriously, what the fark?



An adult should be able to ignore loud noises.  It's part of the modern world.  Sirens, construction, barking dogs, crying babies, etc.  Show some spine and stop letting crying babies bother you so much.
 
2013-04-02 12:12:20 AM

archichris: Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.

Feel free to go find a childless society in which to live. Actually we would all be happier if your parents had done the same.

But really , kids scream, the wind blows, farts stink, and someday those kids will pay for your prostate exam. SO get over it.

But by far the most important reason that a parent says to a child....."this is your last chance" is because we are constantly looking for that moment when the child becomes sentient enough to bargain. Before that moment they just scream and you have no choice but to pacify....which encourages more screaming later, or punish....which doesnt work, or distract....which works great but most parents are so worn out they can't manage it.

Once the kids are old enough to bargain you have it made because you control all the fun stuff......

want ice cream?  eat your veggies. Want more tv time? brush your teeth. etc......

It isnt the fault of the kids or of me that some parents arent smart enough or strong enough to manage the bargaining. So you will have to get used to it.

Think of it this way, if you were really so important that you should be protected from crying children, you probably would be rich and famous and be eating in a restaurant that doesnt allow kids or in a private dining room with some VIPs

But you arent, so get over it.


I prefer to think of "bargaining" as choices and consequences.  Choice, eat your veggies or not.  Consequence, desert or not.  If presented to kids that they get to choose and therefore determine their consequence, with them learning that life is filled with choices and consequences, we can hope that as they grow into adults they learn to make good choices.
 
2013-04-02 12:13:00 AM

bunner: Gwendolyn: Why let your kids pick out what to wear themselves? Because it doesn't really freaking matter what a young kid wears and it is an easy way  them develop self-efficacy. Why you would fight a kid over what they want to put on is the part that makes no sense.

because a hell of a lot of people are invested into the idea that every aspect of their kids lives are a reflection of them.  And yet, they usually limit this to clothing, silly crap that they shower them with and barking about grades but skip the whole "teach them good manners" thing.


Teach them manners?  I pay for catholic school. They get manners drilled into them every day. Then I get to enjoy the fruits of my tuition dollar when my polite children are forced to use guile and flattery to get what they want instead of tantrums.
 
2013-04-02 12:14:29 AM
You think kids are whiny and annoying when they're young?  Wait until they grow up and demand you give them some of your money because you have more than they do!
 
2013-04-02 12:15:00 AM

al's hat: archichris: Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.

Feel free to go find a childless society in which to live. Actually we would all be happier if your parents had done the same.

But really , kids scream, the wind blows, farts stink, and someday those kids will pay for your prostate exam. SO get over it.

But by far the most important reason that a parent says to a child....."this is your last chance" is because we are constantly looking for that moment when the child becomes sentient enough to bargain. Before that moment they just scream and you have no choice but to pacify....which encourages more screaming later, or punish....which doesnt work, or distract....which works great but most parents are so worn out they can't manage it.

Once the kids are old enough to bargain you have it made because you control all the fun stuff......

want ice cream?  eat your veggies. Want more tv time? brush your teeth. etc......

It isnt the fault of the kids or of me that some parents arent smart enough or strong enough to manage the bargaining. So you will have to get used to it.

Think of it this way, if you were really so important that you should be protected from crying children, you probably would be rich and famous and be eating in a restaurant that doesnt allow kids or in a private dining room with some VIPs

But you arent, so get over it.

I prefer to think of "bargaining" as choices and consequences.  Choice, eat your veggies or not.  Consequence, desert or not.  If presented to kids that they get to choose and therefore determine their consequence, with them learning that life is filled with choices and consequences, we can hope that as they grow into adults they learn to make good choices.


Good point. I can end any fight with my son by asking him what he is going to win if he wins the fight. Just getting him to question the consequence of opposing parental will ends 99% of all our disagreements. Not that we have huge fights.....its limited to the "i dont like what we are having for dinner" kind and the "I knowmore about my homework schedule than you do" kind
 
2013-04-02 12:15:03 AM
Here's a trick I use to help make flying tolerable.  I try not to eat any food the morning of a flight so my stomach is good and empty.  Then I take about 1-2 grams of decent skunk and chop it up very fine before putting it in a ceramic cup with plenty of vegetable oil.  I float the cup on a sink full of scalding hot water for an hour or so to make sure the THC dissolves into the veg oil.

Right before I leave to catch the bus to the airport, I swallow down the mixture, squirt some Visine into my eyes, and brush my teeth.  It takes about an hour or so for the buzz to hit, so I'm still sober when I pass through TSA and since I look very nerdish, nobody suspects me of being on drugs.  The buzz usually hits while I'm waiting to be boarded and it makes flights much, much more tolerable.  When I get to the other end, I'm usually sober enough to act professional when I meet the client...
 
2013-04-02 12:19:22 AM
Parents routinely surrender control when they shouldn't, replacing rules with requests, and children are expected to chart their own routes to good behavior, using the faulty GPS's of their flowering consciences, I suppose. Families are run as democracies. Parents forget: in the political realm, you don't get a say until you're 18. There's a reason for that.

That quote? Absolutely spot on. And I say that as a mother of three young children who have not always been angels in public. Kids are not born knowing how to be polite, accommodate other people, or generally be civilized. It's the parents' job to teach them, and if it means having to abandon a grocery cart to go home due to a tantrum, or walk out of a restaurant because a child couldn't stop shouting (both of these things happened exactly once) then that's what you do. I will say that I think it's easier to get spooked about disciplining children in public these days -- you never know when some busybody might decide that a swat on a toddler's bottom is child abuse and decide to take down your license number or start screaming at you. There are a considerable number of people who think that even time outs are wrong because they're shaming and socially isolating the child. Which is nuts, but there you are.

This is not to say that children don't get choices, but they should get smaller ones, which increase in importance as they get older and demonstrate their ability to handle them. They don't get to decide to eat Pop Tarts for breakfast, but they can choose the colour of plate they'll have their breakfast on. They don't get to run around screaming in a museum, but on a family vacation you can give them a choice of which museum they would like to see. In other words, not a democracy, but a benevolent dictatorship.

About the airplane issue -- we take a lot of road trips, but if you've only got four days off for Thanksgiving and your family lives 2000 miles away, isn't in great health, and would like to see the kids before they're 18, sometimes you have to grit your teeth, pack 8,000 little toys and snacks, and do it. Not to mention that we also have family in Puerto Rico, and there's no car in the world that will drive you to San Juan from the mainland.
 
2013-04-02 12:20:37 AM
archichris:

The kid's parents are passing them out to all the passengers?  Awesome!

There are like ten zones in which air travel is pleasant. In the rest of the world its a nightmare all the time. Packing some noise cancelling headphones is rule #1 if you dont like noises. Some giant noise deadening ear covers are better. Really why should Human Civilization collapse in 30 years just because you dont like kids?  Not worth it. It would be far simpler ...


What are these 'ten zones' you speak of?  It's always unpleasant.  But it's made worse by inconsiderate asswipes.
 
2013-04-02 12:23:54 AM

Sensei Can You See: GAT_00: Most of the time, I really don't give a shiat about your kid.  But if they're being a screaming little shiat while I'm trying to eat, or running around a store while you ignore them, there it very much is my interest how you are raising your kid.

It's one thing to ignore them, and I agree with you on that point.

It's not always a simple issue, though. When my son was 3 months old I was flying to Portland from Chicago with him after a Christmas visit. To avoid him having any discomfort with his ears popping, I did what I always did: Started him on a bottle when we started taxiing. That way he would be swallowing when we took off.

But then they postponed takeoff. I stopped feeding him but when we actually took off about 20 minutes later, he didn't want any more formula. About 10 minutes later he started screaming bloody murder as the pressure changed.

He screamed and cried for about 20 minutes, then suddenly belched loudly and almost instantly fell asleep.

During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do? I wasn't ignoring him; I was comforting him and trying to get him to take some formula. But you can't spank a 3-month-old for bad behavior.


Airlines don't provide pillows anymore?
 
2013-04-02 12:26:10 AM

baska: I raised mine, so excuse me while I laugh at the butthurt breeders.  Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.  So, here's mine about the parents who raise their kids like they'll break.  Model respectful behavior, demonstrate the art of choice, but put the hammer down when necessary.  Who's running the show?  There's a reason you're the adult.

/every time I hear some muppet say 'good job' because their kid managed not to break his face it's like biting tinfoil


Bravo!
/although I did say, "Good job," when he faceplanted, sorry. The "good job" was actually for being willing to take the risk to fail again. All his life, we emphasized you get good at something by being willing to fail at it over and over while you learn. It worked, but if you were in the park with us, sorry about the tinfoil! :)
 
2013-04-02 12:27:04 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Airlines don't provide pillows anymore?


They should provide 'screaming helmets' for the kiddies.  And maybe all-enclosing 'asshole suits'--like hazmat suits, but with spikes on the inside--for idiots who can't hold their liquor.
 
2013-04-02 12:31:14 AM

archichris: But really , kids scream, the wind blows, farts stink, and someday those kids will pay for your prostate exam. SO get over it.


Well sure. And when my kid started screaming in a restaurant (or when I needed to fart!) we'd step outside. So the innocent people around me don't have to get over it. This is hard?

Okay, admittedly it is hard on airliners, which is why we didn't put the kid on one until he was old enough to behave. Farting is a problem on airliners, too.
 
2013-04-02 12:34:58 AM
All you had to say was that the person wrote for the New York Time. Then, "condescending urban douche bag" is implied.
 
2013-04-02 12:35:40 AM

Beowoolfie: Farting is a problem on airliners, too.


How about Farting and No-Farting sections on airplanes?  Maybe airlines that serve Korea could have a Kim-Chee section as well...
 
2013-04-02 12:38:53 AM

RenownedCurator: Not to mention that we also have family in Puerto Rico, and there's no car in the world that will drive you to San Juan from the mainland.



San Juan's farther than Cuba, so you might have to stop for gas in the Virgin Islands.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-02 12:39:13 AM

nekom: Oh look, it's THIS thread again.


Would you prefer another gun thread?
 
2013-04-02 12:44:05 AM

filter: I travel all the time for work. Kids on planes do not even register on the annoyance scale.


I did a lot of traveling last year for my career.  My most annoying time?  Getting stuck in the terminal for an extra seven, count 'em, seven hours due to a cancelled flight, then getting a hard-core Christian evangelist as a seat mate.  He started out being reasonable, but when I told him I was an agnostic, he went into Full Evangelist Mode.  Couldn't just leave me alone and ended up spending the entire 3 hours trying to convert me.  He threw everything at me--Pascal's Wager, C.S. Lewis' Trilemma--that I learned when I was a naive fool with Campus Crusade, and I successfully refuted the heck out of him.  In spite of the flight delay (which was the only really hard part) and the 3-hour debate, I was actually in a pretty good mood when we landed and I cheerfully wished him and his wife a pleasant trip home...
 
2013-04-02 12:45:02 AM

FloydA: [i105.photobucket.com image 640x215]


BRAVO!
 
2013-04-02 12:45:49 AM

Beowoolfie: RenownedCurator: Not to mention that we also have family in Puerto Rico, and there's no car in the world that will drive you to San Juan from the mainland.


San Juan's farther than Cuba, so you might have to stop for gas in the Virgin Islands.



Heck, just stay in the Virgin Islands already.  Some of the best scuba diving I've ever encountered...
 
2013-04-02 12:46:10 AM
God I hate you people and your awful opinions.
 
2013-04-02 12:47:43 AM

RenownedCurator: Parents routinely surrender control when they shouldn't, replacing rules with requests, and children are expected to chart their own routes to good behavior, using the faulty GPS's of their flowering consciences, I suppose. Families are run as democracies. Parents forget: in the political realm, you don't get a say until you're 18. There's a reason for that.

That quote? Absolutely spot on. And I say that as a mother of three young children who have not always been angels in public. Kids are not born knowing how to be polite, accommodate other people, or generally be civilized. It's the parents' job to teach them, and if it means having to abandon a grocery cart to go home due to a tantrum, or walk out of a restaurant because a child couldn't stop shouting (both of these things happened exactly once) then that's what you do. I will say that I think it's easier to get spooked about disciplining children in public these days -- you never know when some busybody might decide that a swat on a toddler's bottom is child abuse and decide to take down your license number or start screaming at you. There are a considerable number of people who think that even time outs are wrong because they're shaming and socially isolating the child. Which is nuts, but there you are.

This is not to say that children don't get choices, but they should get smaller ones, which increase in importance as they get older and demonstrate their ability to handle them. They don't get to decide to eat Pop Tarts for breakfast, but they can choose the colour of plate they'll have their breakfast on. They don't get to run around screaming in a museum, but on a family vacation you can give them a choice of which museum they would like to see. In other words, not a democracy, but a benevolent dictatorship.

About the airplane issue -- we take a lot of road trips, but if you've only got four days off for Thanksgiving and your family lives 2000 miles away, isn't in great health, and would like to see the ...


You hit the nail on the head.  You expand the breadth of choices allowed as a child shows maturity enough to make the choices we hope will benefit them.  For some reason the term "benevolent dictatorship" makes me think of Robert Heinlein but that's a good thing when it comes to kids.
 
2013-04-02 12:52:57 AM
The writer didn't seem like a condescending douchebag at all.  I agreed with almost everything he wrote.  I suspect submitter has some sort of chip on his/her shoulder.
 
2013-04-02 12:53:35 AM
Yes, I am a parent.
 
2013-04-02 12:56:59 AM
I have kids and this guy is EXACTLY RIGHT.  You don't negotiate with a 3 year old.  Who the fark is in charge here?
 
2013-04-02 01:02:21 AM
Looking back I realize that I should have beaten my children daily just to keep the fear in them.

Not really, but yeah, if my kids misbehaved in public I took them in private and then when I got done, they were more well mannered.  Oh, and neither one of them became serial killers and they were both productive members of society.
 
2013-04-02 01:02:45 AM

mike_the_engineer: I have kids and this guy is EXACTLY RIGHT.  You don't negotiate with a 3 year old.  Who the fark is in charge here?


I do pediatrics and my motto is "I don't negotiate with terrorists."
 
2013-04-02 01:07:23 AM

Psycat: Beowoolfie: Farting is a problem on airliners, too.

How about Farting and No-Farting sections on airplanes?  Maybe airlines that serve Korea could have a Kim-Chee section as well...


having flown to hong kong a few times, that would be awesome
i take a variety of gums with me, sadly few takers. "it's sugarless!" i'd say, or "New flavor!" but no luck.
i think the smells comes from their pores anyway.
 
2013-04-02 01:08:09 AM

Fano: mike_the_engineer: I have kids and this guy is EXACTLY RIGHT.  You don't negotiate with a 3 year old.  Who the fark is in charge here?

I do pediatrics and my motto is "I don't negotiate with terrorists."


The few times I have to deal with someone's brat (most kids are tolerable), make me really appreciative of my child-free lifestyle.  I have very little sympathy for people who do a crappy job of parenting, then have to bail their son out of jail or babysit their 14-year-old daughter's child.  It's the crappy parents who serve as a good argument for requiring a Breeding License...
 
2013-04-02 01:09:35 AM

Popular Opinion: Psycat: Beowoolfie: Farting is a problem on airliners, too.

How about Farting and No-Farting sections on airplanes?  Maybe airlines that serve Korea could have a Kim-Chee section as well...

having flown to hong kong a few times, that would be awesome
i take a variety of gums with me, sadly few takers. "it's sugarless!" i'd say, or "New flavor!" but no luck.
i think the smells comes from their pores anyway.


Hopefully it's not kim-chee flavored gum :)
 
2013-04-02 01:14:41 AM

Popular Opinion: i think the smells comes from their pores anyway.


Like my Italian wife and one of my sons after they eat a lot of garlic.
 
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