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(The New York Times)   I don't have any kids. But I'm a condescending urban douchebag who writes for the New York Times, so I know more about how you should be raising your kids than you do   (nytimes.com) divider line 616
    More: Asinine, Honey Boo Boo, helicopter parenting, The Modern Parents, chicken fingers, ultimatum, Super Bowl rings, anthems  
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23315 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Apr 2013 at 8:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-01 08:44:04 PM
media-cache-lt0.pinterest.com

"That Buford's a sly one, he already knows his A-B-Cs"
 
2013-04-01 08:44:13 PM

ArcadianRefugee: May be a condescending urban douchebag, but not having children doesn't prevent one from knowing better than some people who do, any more than a research scientist needs to inject himself with Drug X to study its effect on people.

It's a little thing called "observation" and, over time, it enables you to realize who the shiatty parents are, and why.


Oh, no, no, no....

Until you have a child....

Until you have a child... you do not and cannot understand

I don't care if you're a 50 year old childcare professional with 25 years of experience dealing with hundreds of children, just none of them your own. I'm a 16 year girl who got teen pregnant and that makes me infinitely more mature and responsible than you.
 
2013-04-01 08:44:23 PM

Doc Daneeka: I saw that article. People without kids really shouldn't presume to give parenting advice to anyone.  Bruni is like someone trying to give aviation tips to pilots based on the fact that he loves near an airport and sees planes flying overhead often.

I, too, knew everything about proper parenting, before actually becoming a parent. It looks a lot different from the inside.


Loving near the airport, watching the planes come in...there's no loving like airport loving....
 
2013-04-01 08:44:35 PM
I was once a condescending douchebag with more ideas about how you should raise kids while not having kids.

Then I had kids, and realized damn, I was a real douchebag with no farking clue about how to raise kids.

//Ad lib it.  It's the only way.
 
2013-04-01 08:46:11 PM
There is little reasoning to be had with a 2 and a half year old.
 
2013-04-01 08:47:00 PM

Donnchadha: ArcadianRefugee: May be a condescending urban douchebag, but not having children doesn't prevent one from knowing better than some people who do, any more than a research scientist needs to inject himself with Drug X to study its effect on people.

It's a little thing called "observation" and, over time, it enables you to realize who the shiatty parents are, and why.

Oh, no, no, no....

Until you have a child....

Until you have a child... you do not and cannot understand

I don't care if you're a 50 year old childcare professional with 25 years of experience dealing with hundreds of children, just none of them your own. I'm a 16 year girl who got teen pregnant and that makes me infinitely more mature and responsible than you.


Sounds like the Blackhawk Down of helicopter parenting.
 
2013-04-01 08:47:04 PM

ArcadianRefugee: May be a condescending urban douchebag, but not having children doesn't prevent one from knowing better than some people who do, any more than a research scientist needs to inject himself with Drug X to study its effect on people.

It's a little thing called "observation" and, over time, it enables you to realize who the shiatty parents are, and why.


There's definitely something to be learned from observation, but this article has shares the same condescending tone found in many, many conversations I've had with New Yorkers.  I don't actually care for the constant know-it-all attitude and one upsmanship you find with those folks.  His tone is part of the problem, but it's normal in NYC and just aggravating anywhere else.  Hence all the negative reactions.
 
2013-04-01 08:47:24 PM
I rather admire the Don Juan Matus school of parenting (or at least of dealing with an obstreperous kid).

Take him to the morgue.

Let a total stranger grab him and give him a fright.

But that's just me.

/Teacher, no kids. Explains a lot
 
2013-04-01 08:47:55 PM
Subby said it best nothing else to say.
 
2013-04-01 08:48:01 PM

Osomatic: Well, just like some people are douchebags, some kids are douchebags, and 99.9% of the time that's because they have douchebag parents. You don't notice the well-behaved kids. And for the terrible kids, me and you and everybody on Fark and Frank Bruni can offer all the good parenting advice in the world and it won't matter. Bad people usually have bad kids. It's not because nobody has ever told them a better way to do it. It's because they themselves are not capable of being good parents. There's not a lot to be done about it.


I think this is quite accurate. One common thread is that these people seemingly lack the ability to be introspective.
 
2013-04-01 08:48:10 PM
It's like all those New Yorker articles written by a guy who never left the city until the age of 42 when he buys a house in Connecticut and does 2000 words on the joys of hammering a nail.
 
2013-04-01 08:48:25 PM
if parents knew what they were doing we wouldn't have articles like these.
 
2013-04-01 08:48:35 PM

treecologist: I must go to the right restaurants - I never hear or see screaming kids. How often does this really happen, and is it worth biatching about? My family and I eat out once a week, on a average, and screaming kids are never part of the equation.


It's usually the 'lower-class' 'family' 'budget' restaurants that have the screaming kids.

/Of course, given the cost of going to eat out (A 7-person lunch is about $200 after tax and tip here in the Bay Area), I with we had some of those.  I miss $5 Monday back in Michigan, where everything on the menu (except the steaks) was $5 with a drink.  Even after drinks, tax and tip, we could usually feed 3 people for about $25.
 
2013-04-01 08:48:57 PM

another cultural observer: Doc Daneeka: I saw that article. People without kids really shouldn't presume to give parenting advice to anyone.  Bruni is like someone trying to give aviation tips to pilots based on the fact that he loves near an airport and sees planes flying overhead often.

I, too, knew everything about proper parenting, before actually becoming a parent. It looks a lot different from the inside.

Loving near the airport, watching the planes come in...there's no loving like airport loving....


you enjoyed that a little too much.
 
2013-04-01 08:49:03 PM

Kuta: bronyaur1: GAT_00: Sensei Can You See: GAT_00:
[snip]

You know what you could have done?  Not flown with a 3 month old.  Seriously, what the fark?

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph:  THIS.

I'm guessing neither of you have had newborns and family across the country at the holidays.

My twin girls had August birthdays and my son was born in September. I live in California and my entire side of the family lives in a 100 mile radius of northwest Ohio.

Guess what? We flew out to visit everyone and show off the brand new grandchildren to everyone back in the midwest 3 and 4 months after they were born at Christmastime.

Much more economical than flying 50 people out to California.


Did you whine when people gave you dirty looks because of your crying 3 month old?
 
2013-04-01 08:49:18 PM

Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.


You don't negotiate with terrorists.
 
2013-04-01 08:49:29 PM
You don't know shiat about parenting until you have one. Period. And all you assholes that say "How your kid wouldn't do this and that" are full of shiat. I had a friend who liked to tell me how to raise my toddlers before she had kids. I laugh at her now because she has 3 of the most god awfully behaved kids that ever walked the face of the earth. It's like karma. So shut your mouths about how other people parent their kids before you have 'em, because I've seen this happen over and over.
 
2013-04-01 08:49:39 PM

The Dynamite Monkey: Ya know the one thing worse than a whiney, crying baby on a flight?

A whiney, crying grownup complaining about a baby on the flight.

Sorry your watching Downton Abbey on your iPad is slightly disturbed, old snowflake.

Jeebus Crikes people, don't your brains have an "ignore" setting?

/ I guess mine doesn't either, at the moment.

Also, writer of the article: You parents did a bad job too.  They should have told you "Type less - say more.  Miss deadline if you have to."


With babies it is hard because the human brain has evolved to tune into that sound in order to help keep babies alive. No matter how hard you try, you just can't ignore that sound out because your body is designed to pay attention to it. It is the most annoying noise in the world on purpose.
 
2013-04-01 08:49:44 PM

technofiend: ArcadianRefugee: May be a condescending urban douchebag, but not having children doesn't prevent one from knowing better than some people who do, any more than a research scientist needs to inject himself with Drug X to study its effect on people.

It's a little thing called "observation" and, over time, it enables you to realize who the shiatty parents are, and why.

There's definitely something to be learned from observation, but this article has shares the same condescending tone found in many, many conversations I've had with New Yorkers.  I don't actually care for the constant know-it-all attitude and one upsmanship you find with those folks.  His tone is part of the problem, but it's normal in NYC and just aggravating anywhere else.  Hence all the negative reactions.


Are you saying everyone on Fark lives in NYC?
 
2013-04-01 08:51:04 PM

Doc Daneeka: I saw that article. People without kids really shouldn't presume to give parenting advice to anyone.  Bruni is like someone trying to give aviation tips to pilots based on the fact that he loves near an airport and sees planes flying overhead often.

I, too, knew everything about proper parenting, before actually becoming a parent. It looks a lot different from the inside.


Sure, except the advice is "remember to put your landing gear down before landing," and the response is, "fark you, I'll land on the fuselage if I want to; my passengers, my rules!"
 
2013-04-01 08:51:33 PM
The last time I acted out in public I was 5 years old.  My grandmother told me to behave or she would spank me pants down in the middle of the shopping center.  She kept her promise.  The only time she ever had to do that.  AT 43 three years old I still remember that day.  She always had money, food, a kind word, and a bed to sleep in for me and the other grand kids and any family member, but she did not tolerate BS, sloth, or anything untoward in her house.

If you forgot to brush your teeth, she would brush them for you with baking soda and peroxide.  2-3 times this happened, you brushed your teeh.

I understand babies are going to scream, par for the course, but when I see 6-10 year olds acting the fool in public, and parents saying "now dear, please stop, or you are going to get a timeout when we get home." it infuriates me to no end.
 
2013-04-01 08:51:49 PM

treecologist: I must go to the right restaurants - I never hear or see screaming kids. How often does this really happen, and is it worth biatching about? My family and I eat out once a week, on a average, and screaming kids are never part of the equation.


It hasn't happened to me often, but a few years ago I was in a restaurant and the parents were having after dinner coffee with another couple.  Three friends and I were the only other people in that section of the restaurant, which was a lowered area on the other side of the kitchen from the main part of the restaurant.  Their three kids were running around the section, climbing on chairs, running across the tops of tables, climbing over booths.  At one point one of the kids started emptying a ketchup bottle on a table and then poured an entire shaker of salt on it.  The parents never batted an eye.

I still don't know why the people running the restaurant didn't say anything, but my friends and I put up with it for about ten minutes, saw that it wasn't going to get any better, and left.

I've seen kids wailing and being ornery, but that was the single worst bit of acting out I've ever witnessed.
 
2013-04-01 08:51:56 PM

Babbs: You don't know shiat about parenting until you have one. Period. And all you assholes that say "How your kid wouldn't do this and that" are full of shiat. I had a friend who liked to tell me how to raise my toddlers before she had kids. I laugh at her now because she has 3 of the most god awfully behaved kids that ever walked the face of the earth. It's like karma. So shut your mouths about how other people parent their kids before you have 'em, because I've seen this happen over and over.


So in other words, your kids have carte blanche to annoy others?
 
2013-04-01 08:51:58 PM
Children should be beaten not heard.
 
2013-04-01 08:52:07 PM

SpeedyBB: I rather admire the Don Juan Matus school of parenting (or at least of dealing with an obstreperous kid).


Best use of "obstreperous" I've seen all day.
 
2013-04-01 08:52:49 PM

meat0918: I was once a condescending douchebag with more ideas about how you should raise kids while not having kids.

Then I had kids, and realized damn, I was a real douchebag with no farking clue about how to raise kids.

//Ad lib it.  It's the only way.


Plan ahead for every conceivable circumstance that your crotchfruit will get into.  You were a shiatty kid, your kid will do the same shiatty things you did.  Don't forget those shiatty things.  How do you think your parents were able to deal with a shiatty kid?  They were shiatty kids once too.

Then whip their ass when they screw up, tell them you love them and send their ass off to bed.  Rinse, repeat until the kid stops being shiatty.
 
2013-04-01 08:52:56 PM

Gwendolyn: Why let your kids pick out what to wear themselves? Because it doesn't really freaking matter what a young kid wears and it is an easy way  them develop self-efficacy. Why you would fight a kid over what they want to put on is the part that makes no sense.


That was one of the glaring things in the article that grabbed me.  "Why all the choices - "What would you like to wear?"- and all the negotiating and the painstakingly calibrated diplomacy? "  Giving children choices is essential to learning and growing up.  Good and bad consequences come from the choices we make.  Teaching children this one element is critical and the sooner they start learning about it, the better.
 
2013-04-01 08:53:20 PM

kxs401: People without children are still affected by how you raise them, and are going to have opinions. We have an interest, because we have to share the world with your kids. Someday, they're going to be our fellow citizens, our coworkers, and possibly, our perpetrators. We really want you to do a good job.


[shrug] Yeah, but do you really know how those parents discipline their kids, what's going on in that home, what's going on on that day, etc.? You see a kid having a screaming meltdown in the middle of the grocery aisle and mom just standing there (it seems) and you think or even say "Goddamn, what a horrible child/mother! She just lets her kid scream at the top of his lungs and doesn't even care about all the other customers!" Of course, you have no way of knowing, and don't care to find out, that she's been in the store for 30 seconds, that the child  has a massive ear infection, and she's stopped in to pick up the prescription for amoxicillin to cure said earache. No, you made instant connection: screaming kid=bad mom, passed your judgement and went on. Was she supposed to leave the kid in the car? That's illegal these days.

This is why people who lack kids shouldn't really be telling people with them how to raise their children. What you the childless see as a one-time awful display of revolting undisciplined behavior may or may not be anything unusual to the parent. Or may be a kid who is sick. Or may be a parent who is sick (life is fun when you can't afford day care). Or it may just be nap time; as any parent could tell you, kids go from calm & rational to cranky & impossible in about .25 seconds when nap time hits. But YOU didn't know that, did you, Mr. I-don't-have-kids?

Maybe those without kids should STFU and save their outrage for kids who really do have bad parents and show up to school with bruises on their legs, or no lunch for a week, or whose parents can't be bothered to come to parent-teacher conferences. Oh, and I have no children either, so I'm comfortable telling people with no kids of their own what to do.
 
2013-04-01 08:54:17 PM
Ctl F thread for "crotch fruit"

/no results
//fark you disappoint
 
2013-04-01 08:54:32 PM

namegoeshere: This guy sounds like a Farker Liberal Tool.. The two are not always synnonomous.


Decanting is a basic task of civilization? Punch yourself in the face.
 
2013-04-01 08:54:59 PM
He's asking people to grow a backbone when dealing with their children in public situations.  I fail to see the outrage.
 
2013-04-01 08:55:23 PM
G. K. Chesterton wrote "Before I got married I had six theories about raising children.  Now I have six children and no theories."

The problem is that all children are different; there's no one-size-fits-all approach.

My mom was leinent and permissive with me; but I was a timid girl.

The article writer sounds a bit douchy.  He needs a beer.
 
2013-04-01 08:56:14 PM

Nadie_AZ: While I have no kids of my own, I have many I can (and sometimes do) lease for the weekend: 11 actual nieces and nephews, whom I'll be with this Easter Sunday, and perhaps twice that number of honorary ones. I have put in my time around tots and teens, and enjoy them. I have seen my share of parenting, and am not certain what to make of it.

Until you actually raise one or are actively raising one, your anecdotal 'I spent a Sunday holiday with them' means nothing to me or any other parent out there.

God what a horrible article.


This. Nieces and nephews aren't even comparable to sons and daughters. Not even in the same league. It's like tee ball vs. Major League Baseball.

I think he's trolling us though. What day is it again?
 
2013-04-01 08:56:39 PM

b0rg9: Ctl F thread for "crotch fruit"

/no results
//fark you disappoint


Sorry, the term of the day is "farktrophy"
 
2013-04-01 08:56:54 PM

gingerjet: Nadie_AZ: While I have no kids of my own, I have many I can (and sometimes do) lease for the weekend: 11 actual nieces and nephews, whom I'll be with this Easter Sunday, and perhaps twice that number of honorary ones. I have put in my time around tots and teens, and enjoy them. I have seen my share of parenting, and am not certain what to make of it.

Until you actually raise one or are actively raising one, your anecdotal 'I spent a Sunday holiday with them' means nothing to me or any other parent out there.

God what a horrible article.

Oh - so your one of those condescending urban douchebag parents ... gotcha.


Exactly. FTA: "They're toddlers, not Pakistan."

Article is dead-on. Suck it, child spoilers.
 
2013-04-01 08:57:09 PM
To note, having children does not mean you know anything about how to raise children. Does not mean those without children therefore have equal footing, but parents are not to be free from criticisms.

As to the author, I have never seen this "everybody has to be a winner" cause the type of personality people seem to complain of. Parent entitlement mentalities (not a political reference) is the cause; children know of authentic versus artificial wins, and children draw from vicarious experiences of parents. To regain some sanity and temporary reprieve, parents have always given control in the short term to children. What is amusing is he then ventures to say children become who they will become.

For those blasting him, read to the second page where he tells parents to worry less about the minor decisions.
 
2013-04-01 08:57:10 PM

puppypants: There is little reasoning to be had with a 2 and a half year old.


How can that be true when Oprah and NPR and these books that everyone on hyperparanoidsoccermom.com says I just have to have says if I don't reason with them their precious self esteem will be destroyed and they'll hate me forever.
 
2013-04-01 08:57:12 PM
There's sure a lot of defensive breeders in this thread.
 
2013-04-01 08:57:14 PM

Gig103: Sensei Can You See: During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do?

Ideally, you stay home with a 3 month old and tell your family to visit you.


Ideally, yes.

Luckily, I've never had a problem when flying with my kids.  They are far from angels, but a little Dramamine, some snacks, a dvd or some other portable device, and books for them to read, they are content.
 
2013-04-01 08:57:31 PM

b0rg9: Ctl F thread for "crotch fruit"

/no results
//fark you disappoint


Missed it by that much | |
 
2013-04-01 08:58:00 PM
Subby knows less about parenting that the writer.

This is the best thing to be printed in the NYTimes in many many years.

Now what's the over/under on how soon before he is forced to write a retraction?
 
2013-04-01 08:58:05 PM

ourbigdumbmouth: If you don't have kids, you can't comment on parenting.

If you didn't serve in the armed forces, you can't have an opinion on the war.

This is fun...


If you've never been tattooed, you can't have an opinion on those either.

We could probably go on all day.
 
2013-04-01 08:58:13 PM

Hoban Washburne: Voiceofreason01: Not as big of a douchbag as people who try to negotiate with their screaming toddler in the middle of a restaurant.

This.

GAT_00: Most of the time, I really don't give a shiat about your kid.  But if they're being a screaming little shiat while I'm trying to eat, or running around a store while you ignore them, there it very much is my interest how you are raising your kid.

And this.  It seems more and more that people in general (i.e. including adults) have NO farkING CONCEPT of not being in other people's way.  And it gets passed even worse one generation to the next.  My wife and I were in a really busy grocery store on Saturday, and this one kid (had to be at least 12) was all over the place sometimes practically sprinting, cutting weird angles and getting in people's way.  Later on this random guy in the checkout line behind us is talking to us a lot, and the kid comes out of nowhere looking to cut in BETWEEN THE MAN AND HIS CART at the same time the man was gesturing with his hand.  Smacked the kid right in the face.  The guy apologized profusely and checked on the kid, but the kid just had a pissy angry biatch look on his face.  My wife told him he needed to apologize for running into the man and to watch where he was going.  He ran off.  It made my day.

/cool farking story, bro


So much this.

CSB
Some of the worst offenders are backpackers on the travel Europe or gap year trips.  The big pack on your back does take up space and increases your turn radius for those oblivious to the laws of physics and common courtesy.  Don't even get me started on meetings across a doorway in South America.
CSB over.

//
 
2013-04-01 08:58:21 PM

GAT_00: You know what you could have done?  Not flown with a 3 month old.  Seriously, what the fark?


How about no.

I agree that a 3-month-old should be taken on planes as seldom as reasonably possible, but once for a major holiday, or for a cross-country move (normally you wouldn't plan to move three months after having a kid, but life's not always cooperative like that) is not unreasonable.  And if an adult can't deal with a few screaming babies for a while, maybe <i>they're</i> the ones not mature enough to go on a long plane ride.
 
2013-04-01 08:58:28 PM

Nadie_AZ: Until you actually raise one or are actively raising one


You can't expect anyone to take you seriously hen you're suggest that the one and only ay to become knoledgable about childrearing is to sit next to a child for a fe years. I'm not saying this guy is an expert, or even makes any sense, but the idea that becoming a parent someho imbues people ith parenting skills and knoledge, and therefore that people ithout children can have no such knoledge, is absurd.

Parents are notoriously blind to certain aspects of their relationships ith their on children in particular. For example, parents are almost universally unilling to see their on children as real people, rather than an extension of themselves, long past the point hen the rest of the orld recognizes the difference. Most parents have very little training in childrearing outside their on experiences, so they have limited perspective and experience on hich to model their behavior. And like any other relationship it's often difficult to evaluate objectively from the inside, so parents are poor judges of their on performance.

This guy might just be some childless blohard ith nothing useful to say. But categorically dismissing the opinion of everyone ithout a child at their hip hen discussing childrearing is just as ridiculous as dismissing the opinion of everyone not currently in a bus hen discussing public transportation. Everyone as once a child. The majority of people have been or ill be parents. And everyone is affected by the ay e raise children, even if they never directly participate.
 
2013-04-01 08:58:42 PM

Moopy Mac: Babbs: You don't know shiat about parenting until you have one. Period. And all you assholes that say "How your kid wouldn't do this and that" are full of shiat. I had a friend who liked to tell me how to raise my toddlers before she had kids. I laugh at her now because she has 3 of the most god awfully behaved kids that ever walked the face of the earth. It's like karma. So shut your mouths about how other people parent their kids before you have 'em, because I've seen this happen over and over.

So in other words, your kids have carte blanche to annoy others?


Did I say that? No. I just said that people that judge people with kids about how they are raising them should really try to be a little understanding, because when the time comes, they will be in the exact situations. No kids are perfect. Even the best ones act like assholes in public once in a while.

/ And my kids are grown now. And they both hate kids.
 
2013-04-01 08:59:02 PM

Nadie_AZ: Sensei Can You See: During the screaming, though, I got lots of nasty looks from other passengers. Well, what the hell was I supposed to do? I wasn't ignoring him; I was comforting him and trying to get him to take some formula. But you can't spank a 3-month-old for bad behavior.

I'm a parent. I've been through a lot of sleepless nights, endless days of tooth aches, colic, asthma attacks. It is so hard sometimes. And when I see kids crying, I feel for the parents as much as anything else- of course I would rather a quiet plane ride or dinner experience- but god dammit- children are going to cry. They are going to be in pain, they are going to surprise you when you least expect it. And for other people to sit there and be assholes with their looks and groans, yeah that sucks.


I agree. I don't have kids, so I'm not accustomed to all the screaming/crying etc...but I never give a dirty look to a parent. Parents are making great sacrifices that will benefit the community and all of humanity. People without kids need to suck it up and instead of complaining about being inconvenienced, be appreciative that others are raising up the next generation...which you will most likely depend on.
 
2013-04-01 08:59:33 PM
I suck as a parent, so I actually listen when people give me advice.

Our son is 8. Haven't flown anywhere since he was born.
 
2013-04-01 08:59:34 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: He's asking people to grow a backbone when dealing with their children in public situations.  I fail to see the outrage.


This
 
2013-04-01 08:59:36 PM
So this witless lazy crap is all you gotta do to get a green in this joint??

A cheap shot lazy headline and a cheap shot lazy article?
 
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