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(Yahoo)   NY Times admits that, in retrospect, it might have been a wee bit sexist for them to lead off the obituary of a brilliant rocket scientists and National Technology Medal winner with a description of what a great cook and homemaker she was   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, prompt corner, National Medal of Technology, obituary, descriptions, NYT  
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5816 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Apr 2013 at 11:32 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-01 10:58:58 AM  
It's an obituary, not a biography.
The offensive part is "The article went on to suggest that it took two men to create an adhesive stationery but only one woman to figure out how to keep satellites in place."
Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?  Screw you Post-It Note guys, a woman did rocket science.  Classy.
 
2013-04-01 11:09:30 AM  

staplermofo: Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?


I think the proper response to this is "lol fragile male ego!"
 
2013-04-01 11:18:29 AM  
All the same, she was a great homemaker.  Have you ever seen her pleats?  You could castrate yourself with her pleats!
 
2013-04-01 11:35:19 AM  
If they truly want to make amends, they should post her beef stroganoff recipe...
 
2013-04-01 11:35:36 AM  
What else are they supposed to lead off with? She sure wasn't a looker.
 
2013-04-01 11:37:04 AM  
Soon, the couple went square-dancing, only to discover that they both hated it. They found other interests, and married in 1951.
 
Those "other interests" were sex, right?
 
2013-04-01 11:39:10 AM  
It seems the obituary is about her transformation from dutiful wife, mother and cook to brilliant scientist. I liked it. Also would like to try that beef stroganoff.
 
2013-04-01 11:40:00 AM  
Besides the saccharine folksiness, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with starting the article like that.  But it shows the NYT is tone deaf to decades of women fighting to get more representation in STEM fields.
 
2013-04-01 11:41:02 AM  
The person who wrote the obit is no brain surgeon.
 
2013-04-01 11:41:55 AM  
Was she a beloved aunt, too?
 
2013-04-01 11:42:22 AM  
The whole thing is beyond silly. Time to grow up, whiney America!
 
2013-04-01 11:43:02 AM  

itsdan: staplermofo: Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?

 
I think the proper response to this is "lol fragile male ego!"
 
You big meanie! I have feelings, too!
 
Two, I mean. I have two feelings.
 
2013-04-01 11:43:30 AM  

Lumpmoose: But it shows the NYT is tone deaf to decades of women fighting to get more representation in STEM fields.

 
Although they do include these bits:
It was a distinction she earned in the face of obstacles, beginning when the University of Manitoba in Canada refused to let her major in engineering because there were no accommodations for women at an outdoor engineering camp, which students were required to attend.
 
"You just have to be cheerful about it and not get upset when you get insulted," she once said.
 
... Part of Mrs. Brill's rationale for going into rocket engineering was that virtually no other women were doing so. "I reckoned they would not invent rules to discriminate against one person," she said in a 1990 interview.
 
2013-04-01 11:44:13 AM  
It looks like she made al ot of Beef Stroganof
 
2013-04-01 11:44:25 AM  
Way to demean all people that decide to keep a home and take care of their families.
 
Last time I checked, the Post It Note folks were not in charge of any satellites.
Apples =/= Oranges
Keepin' it Classy, That's the Clean Way To Live!TM
 
2013-04-01 11:44:41 AM  
That's nothing. The original version began: "She could suck the chrome off a bumper...."
 
2013-04-01 11:47:29 AM  
She was a rocket surgeon and her lasagna was the bomb. I'm failing to see the problem.
 
2013-04-01 11:49:42 AM  
Well, to be fair her beef stroganoff recipie involved pre-browning the meat by subjecting it to a three second thruster burn of an LOX booster
 
2013-04-01 11:50:04 AM  

Farty McPooPants: Keepin' it Classy, That's the Clean Way To Live!TM


OK, whatever you say, Mr. Farty McPooPants.
 
2013-04-01 11:51:02 AM  

JackieRabbit: The whole thing is beyond silly. Time to grow up, whiney America!

 
You're a straight white male, aren't you?
 
2013-04-01 11:51:29 AM  

Magorn: Well, to be fair her beef stroganoff recipie involved pre-browning the meat by subjecting it to a three second thruster burn of an LOX booster

 
That would be salmon stroganoff. For this, you use a bacon torch:
www.popsci.com
 
2013-04-01 11:52:05 AM  

Graffito: JackieRabbit: The whole thing is beyond silly. Time to grow up, whiney America!
 
You're a straight white able-bodied male, aren't you?


FTFY
 
2013-04-01 11:52:51 AM  
I've heard that Einstein enjoyed it more when people complimented his violin playing than when they gushed about how smart he was. Maybe she was the same way.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-01 11:53:09 AM  
They're missing the point. Was she hot?
 
2013-04-01 11:55:06 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: What else are they supposed to lead off with? She sure wasn't a looker.

 
Well, she was no Werner von Braun, but who among us is?
 
upload.wikimedia.org
 
Why, he practically personified "handsome Nazi rocket scientist around whom we don't mention the war. Or the slave labour. Or any other unpleasantness."
 
2013-04-01 11:55:31 AM  

Ponzholio: stroganoff

 
img827.imageshack.us
 
2013-04-01 11:58:24 AM  
Rocket science that whitens teeth.

Invented by a mom.
 
2013-04-01 11:59:07 AM  
I don't remember much complaining when they led off with John Wayne Gacy's ability to make balloon animals.
 
2013-04-01 12:01:35 PM  

Theaetetus: Lumpmoose: But it shows the NYT is tone deaf to decades of women fighting to get more representation in STEM fields.
 
Although they do include these bits:
It was a distinction she earned in the face of obstacles, beginning when the University of Manitoba in Canada refused to let her major in engineering because there were no accommodations for women at an outdoor engineering camp, which students were required to attend.
 
"You just have to be cheerful about it and not get upset when you get insulted," she once said.
 
... Part of Mrs. Brill's rationale for going into rocket engineering was that virtually no other women were doing so. "I reckoned they would not invent rules to discriminate against one person," she said in a 1990 interview.


Yes, but I heard she went to a conference once and someone made a joke about Two stage rockets and she didn't broadcast this sexist image to the BBS boards or anything. Obviously a terrible woman who let men walk all over her. How dare she.
 
2013-04-01 12:01:56 PM  

Cletus C.: I don't remember much complaining when they led off with John Wayne Gacy's ability to make balloon animals.

 
"he vas a great painter! He could do an entire apartment in one afternoon! Two coats!"
 
2013-04-01 12:04:35 PM  
Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.
 
2013-04-01 12:07:12 PM  
I met her back in 1989.  The one thing that really remember about her was that she had tuck her shirt into her underwear which was showing about 1" above her waistline.
 
2013-04-01 12:08:54 PM  
She was a brilliant rocket scientist who followed her husband from job to job and took eight years off from work to raise three children. "The world's best mom," her son Matthew said.

They made it WORSE with this change. Now it makes no sense at all and puts her homemaking skills on equal billing with her scientific achievements.


The original was obviously meant to show how, at a time when things were just starting to change for women, she was at the forefront. To outside appearances, her life path would seem standard in many ways with home and family, but the real story of her life was her innovative work.

The people who criticized it really don't see that? They really think the writer wanted to highlight her home and family achievements and diminish the others?

Now, thanks to the change, that's exactly what it does.
 
2013-04-01 12:11:25 PM  

minoridiot: I met her back in 1989.  The one thing that really remember about her was that she had tuck her shirt into her underwear which was showing about 1" above her waistline.


So a typical engineer, then.
 
2013-04-01 12:11:43 PM  
www.ecofilms.com.au
 
2013-04-01 12:15:39 PM  

Dr._Michael_Hfuhruhurr: Rocket science that whitens teeth.

Invented by a mom.


This one weird trick that dentists hate.
 
2013-04-01 12:23:27 PM  
I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.
 
2013-04-01 12:30:10 PM  
So women can't be brilliant and cook?

Good to know.
 
2013-04-01 12:37:56 PM  

Molavian: So women can't be brilliant and cook?

Good to know.


I should stop cooking now? Because, I am pretty proud of my professional achievements. I would like to have equal recognition for my cooking. Because it is what I like to do when I'm not working...
 
2013-04-01 12:39:28 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.


One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.
 
2013-04-01 12:39:47 PM  

JackieRabbit: The whole thing is beyond silly. Time to grow up, whiney America!


upload.wikimedia.org

/ten, nine, eight, and all that
 
2013-04-01 12:40:53 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales.


I would not be surprised if you get exactly as much respect for your cooking and homemaking as you do for your work in sales.
 
2013-04-01 12:48:06 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.


If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.
 
2013-04-01 12:50:10 PM  

Theaetetus: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales.

I would not be surprised if you get exactly as much respect for your cooking and homemaking as you do for your work in sales.


BURN! If only the internet cared about me as much as my boss and my husband do. I am going to cry into my pillow!
 
2013-04-01 12:53:08 PM  

minoridiot: I met her back in 1989.  The one thing that really remember about her was that she had tuck her shirt into her underwear which was showing about 1" above her waistline.


I had an engineering professor that did that. Went oddly well with his lopsided mustache and combover.

/brilliant mind, no social awareness
 
2013-04-01 12:55:42 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.


Yes, and it would be nice if we could eat bacon and cheesecake for every meal and not become morbidly obese, but, alas, that it not the world we live in.
 
2013-04-01 12:57:19 PM  

Christian Bale: They made it WORSE with this change.


Yeah I'm with you on this one the edits made the whole thing a mess and I don't really see what was wrong with the first one. It's not like they made a joke of it, hell for all we knew she was damn proud of her beef stroganoff. It's not like they downplayed her engineering successes either. They just made a strong case for a woman who had success both professionally and privately.  That's a pretty damn big accomplishment for anybody and it should be celebrated.
 
2013-04-01 01:00:33 PM  
People like to zazz up their writings.

I think it was an honest mistake. I dont think that the writer knew how it was going to be perceived. He/she wanted to make the obit a bit more dramatic.
 
2013-04-01 01:04:03 PM  
Came to read about her sammich making abilities, leaving disappoint..
 
2013-04-01 01:05:58 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.

If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.


I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things.  But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.
 
2013-04-01 01:06:22 PM  
You hear that housewives of America? All of that hard work you put into making a home and raising children means nothing, NOTHING to the health and well being of the future of America! Only work that's OUTSIDE the home matters in the great scheme of things!

Signed, Feminists of America.
 
2013-04-01 01:06:23 PM  

Graffito: You're a straight, white, cis-gendered, heteronormative male who never experiences microaggressions, aren't you?


And you're a 20-something, middle class white female, aren't you?  Look, if stereotyping people is a bad thing, then it's always a bad thing.  Don't just pick and choose.

Also, you missed a few labels to apply to the other poster, but fortunately I was able to add them back into your quotes.

A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.
 
2013-04-01 01:08:17 PM  
SAMMICHES!
 
2013-04-01 01:08:54 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.

If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.


Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

Father of two and star of his familiy's annual Thanksgiving Day touch football game, John F. Kennedy passed away in Dallas after a very short illness, he was also briefly President of the United States from 1960-1963

Local Businessman and former University of Cleveland Engineering Professor Neil Armstrong has passed away, he is survived by a wife and son, who will miss his gardening and landscaping skills.  He was also  a commissioned officer in the Navy, and a Korean war vet, who also is credited with doing some pioneering aerospace work while employed by NASA in the late 1960's
 
2013-04-01 01:09:31 PM  

Graffito: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.

Yes, and it would be nice if we could eat bacon and cheesecake for every meal and not become morbidly obese, but, alas, that it not the world we live in.


You're not willing to exercise to keep your weight under control while eating what you want? Unfortunate.

I just had to have this conversation with my mother-in-law who was just SHOCKED that I wouldn't be staying home if we have kids. Um... her son isn't the primary breadwinner in our household and won't be for some time... so unless I wait till 40 to have children and risk those complications, I am going to be working when my kids are small. Just like both my mom and my mother-in-law did. But somehow, its suddenly not OK for her hypothetical grandchildren to have a working mother? Maybe she should have raised her son differently (less free spirit hippie-dippie BS) and maybe he'd have some high power earning potential... She and anyone else who makes this an issue can go pound sand.
 
2013-04-01 01:12:54 PM  

yourmomlovestetris: You hear that housewives of America? All of that hard work you put into making a home and raising children means nothing, NOTHING to the health and well being of the future of America! Only work that's OUTSIDE the home matters in the great scheme of things!

Signed, Feminists of America.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-01 01:15:29 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.

If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.

I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things.  But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.


Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

I have people in my life already saying that I shouldn't be the one to work. That sucks. My mom worked. My dad lost his job the month before I was born. My mom supported our family and when it took 25 months for my dad to get another job, we weren't destroyed or receiving welfare. I still would say my mom's cooking was farking fantastic and I know (since she continually advanced in her career) that her boss thought she did a good job as a computer programmer.
 
2013-04-01 01:15:39 PM  

IrishFarmer: A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.


I think you've confused the word "sexism" with the word "malicious". The point is that sexism can be so ingrained that, without any malice, "hatred", or "mistrust", you still nonetheless have gender-based prejudices and engage in discrimination.
 
2013-04-01 01:17:10 PM  

Magorn: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.

If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.

Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

Father of two and star of his familiy's annual Thanksgiving Day touch football game, John F. Kennedy passed away in Dallas after a very short illness, he was also briefly President of the United States from 1960-1963

Local Businessman and former University of Cleveland Engineering Professor Neil Armstrong has passed away, he is survived by a wife and son, who will miss his gardening and landscaping skills.  He was also  a commissioned officer in the Navy, and a Korean war vet, who also is credited with doing some pioneering aerospace work while employed by NASA in the late 1960's


This made me LOL.
 
2013-04-01 01:19:44 PM  

minoridiot: I met her back in 1989.  The one thing that really remember about her was that she had tuck her shirt into her underwear which was showing about 1" above her waistline.


When I was in grade school, I was one of those people who couldn't seem to keep my shirt tucked in no matter how much I tried.  Some other kids had no problem, and I wondered what they did.  One day it occurred to me that they probably tucked their shirt into their underwear.  So I did that one day... and got suspended for showing off my underwear.  I told them I was trying to keep it tucked in and they didn't believe me.
 
2013-04-01 01:23:57 PM  

cman: People like to zazz up their writings.

I think it was an honest mistake. I dont think that the writer knew how it was going to be perceived. He/she wanted to make the obit a bit more dramatic.


I suspect he's one of those "I don't discriminate, and I don't know anyone who does, therefor women are being treated equally" types. So he thought he'd make it cute and folksy and start the obit of a world-renown engineer and scientist with the personal side most people never see.

It was a flattering article that mostly concentrated on her professional accomplishments. Still, someone at the NYTimes should have known better and prevented that opening.
 
2013-04-01 01:27:43 PM  
Look, if I had invented some super duper satellite space thingy then I would want to be remembered for that and not for my goddamned beef stroganoff.  One of those things is a little more l33t than the other.
 
2013-04-01 01:28:42 PM  
God forbid they humanize her and talk about her family before mentioning her 1970s rocket accomplishments.
 
2013-04-01 01:28:50 PM  

Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,


The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.
 
2013-04-01 01:33:15 PM  

aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.


I agree.

Of course, a lot of men only cook when they have the day off and can make a big production out of it. Women wind up being the ones that have to get dinner together at the end of a busy day, and they often consider health and nutrition more than men do. Not that beef stroganoff is what I'd call a healthy dish.
 
2013-04-01 01:33:50 PM  

This text is now purple: Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.


I think that is what he meant by amateur violinist, husband and father of two. He was amateur at all of those things...
 
2013-04-01 01:35:30 PM  
If I was a nobel prize winning scientist and the newspaper's article on me started off with what an amazing car mechanic or cook or toilet rebuilder I was, I wouldn't feel slighted at all. it would also be fine if they just gushed about how big a wang I have, too. I'd be ok with that.
 
2013-04-01 01:35:41 PM  

Krieghund: aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.

I agree.

Of course, a lot of men only cook when they have the day off and can make a big production out of it. Women wind up being the ones that have to get dinner together at the end of a busy day, and they often consider health and nutrition more than men do. Not that beef stroganoff is what I'd call a healthy dish.


My husband cooks very well, but you're right, he does it on a Sunday and there is much drama and intrigue when its done. And I've never quizzed him about the calorie content of the food he produces... but when I cook... just saying. Nutrition Facts or it doesn't count...
 
2013-04-01 01:36:24 PM  
Yes... but then what isn't sexist today?

/ I'd really like to know.
 
2013-04-01 01:50:04 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things. But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.


It's not really strange. It's emphasized here, because for her era, she was a pioneer. The very reason that other stuff is included is to highlight that her innovations came from a then-unexpected place.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to put a humanistic angle into an bio-piece that would otherwise be completely technical. They mention that Goddard was often sick as a child, they mention Einstein's lack of care for his appearance, they mention Tesla's oddities, and I bet, when Hawking goes, they'll mention that he was in a wheelchair. This was an article about the person, not just her work.

Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...
Above all, in and out of science, Dr. Feynman was a curious character -his phrase, and the double meaning was intentional. He was never content with what he knew or what other people knew. He taught himself how to fix radios, pick locks, draw nudes, speak Portuguese, play the bongos and decipher Mayan hieroglyphics. He pursued knowledge without prejudice, studying the tracking ability of ants in his bathtub and learning enough biology to study the mutation of bacteriophages.

/If you're remembered ONLY for your work
//You must not be very an interesting person
 
2013-04-01 01:54:05 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Skirl Hutsenreiter: I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things. But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.

It's not really strange. It's emphasized here, because for her era, she was a pioneer. The very reason that other stuff is included is to highlight that her innovations came from a then-unexpected place.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to put a humanistic angle into an bio-piece that would otherwise be completely technical. They mention that Goddard was often sick as a child, they mention Einstein's lack of care for his appearance, they mention Tesla's oddities, and I bet, when Hawking goes, they'll mention that he was in a wheelchair. This was an article about the person, not just her work.

Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...
Above all, in and out of science, Dr. Feynman was a curious character -his phrase, and the double meaning was intentional. He was never content with what he knew or what other people knew. He taught himself how to fix radios, pick locks, draw nudes, speak Portuguese, play the bongos and decipher Mayan hieroglyphics. He pursued knowledge without prejudice, studying the tracking ability of ants in his bathtub and learning enough biology to study the mutation of bacteriophages.

/If you're remembered ONLY for your work
//You must not be very an interesting person


It's called "burying the lede",  a no-no in journalism.  You start off with why the person is famous/affected our lives  enough to rate a big obit in the NY Times, then, having caught your reader's attention proceed to humanize them and tell lesser known things about them.  Leading with the Stroganoff usggests there is no more there there.
 
2013-04-01 01:55:37 PM  

This text is now purple: Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.


Let's not forget "crappy sailor" and "shabby dresser" and "generally unkempt".
 
2013-04-01 01:58:51 PM  

hitlersbrain: Yes... but then what isn't sexist today?

/ I'd really like to know.


Potatoes.
 
2013-04-01 01:59:28 PM  

Magorn: ProfessorOhki: Skirl Hutsenreiter: I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things. But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.

It's not really strange. It's emphasized here, because for her era, she was a pioneer. The very reason that other stuff is included is to highlight that her innovations came from a then-unexpected place.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to put a humanistic angle into an bio-piece that would otherwise be completely technical. They mention that Goddard was often sick as a child, they mention Einstein's lack of care for his appearance, they mention Tesla's oddities, and I bet, when Hawking goes, they'll mention that he was in a wheelchair. This was an article about the person, not just her work.

Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...
Above all, in and out of science, Dr. Feynman was a curious character -his phrase, and the double meaning was intentional. He was never content with what he knew or what other people knew. He taught himself how to fix radios, pick locks, draw nudes, speak Portuguese, play the bongos and decipher Mayan hieroglyphics. He pursued knowledge without prejudice, studying the tracking ability of ants in his bathtub and learning enough biology to study the mutation of bacteriophages.

/If you're remembered ONLY for your work
//You must not be very an interesting person

It's called "burying the lede",  a no-no in journalism.  You start off with why the person is famous/affected our lives  enough to rate a big obit in the NY Times, then, having caught your reader's attention proceed to humanize them and tell lesser known things about them.  Leading with the Stroganoff usggests there is no more there there.


What was the original headline? (Serious, I think I've only seen the newer version). You're right though, it shouldn't have been the lead, but I get the feeling we'd be having a similar conversation even if it was 3 paragraphs in.
 
2013-04-01 02:05:34 PM  

itsdan: staplermofo: Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?

I think the proper response to this is "lol fragile male ego!"


No the canned response is "double standard."
 
2013-04-01 02:08:13 PM  

FarkingReading: That's nothing. The original version began: "She could suck the chrome off a bumper...."


She was also recognized as being the Pele of anal
 
2013-04-01 02:11:34 PM  

Christian Bale: The people who criticized it really don't see that? They really think the writer wanted to highlight her home and family achievements and diminish the others?


I think we're falling down some sort of crazy reactionary rabbit hole here.  The last few stories about purported "sexism" have left me scratching my head. There was nothing in the world wrong with the obit as originally written.
 
2013-04-01 02:19:23 PM  

Theaetetus: Soon, the couple went square-dancing, only to discover that they both hated it. They found other interests, and married in 1951.

Those "other interests" were sex, right?


IrishFarmer: Graffito: You're a straight, white, cis-gendered, heteronormative male who never experiences microaggressions, aren't you?

And you're a 20-something, middle class white female, aren't you?  Look, if stereotyping people is a bad thing, then it's always a bad thing.  Don't just pick and choose.

Also, you missed a few labels to apply to the other poster, but fortunately I was able to add them back into your quotes.

A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.


The dictionary definition is broader than "hatred or mistrust" and includes gender-based "devaluation";  which putting her cooking above her science arguably does.
 
2013-04-01 02:20:47 PM  
The New York Times pratfalls, as usual. The first was bad, the second is worse.
 
2013-04-01 02:23:22 PM  

aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.


Is this sarcasm?

I like sushi, but if I had to quit either sushi or stroganoff for the rest of my life, the fish could rest a little easier...chowder or tiramisou over either, however.
 
2013-04-01 02:36:01 PM  

PunGent: aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.

Is this sarcasm?

I like sushi, but if I had to quit either sushi or stroganoff for the rest of my life, the fish could rest a little easier...chowder or tiramisou over either, however.


Not many Farkers could quit stroganoff for the rest of their lives. Hell, remember the uproar when Drew got rid of Foobies?
 
2013-04-01 02:44:42 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."


But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."
 
2013-04-01 02:46:30 PM  
Honestly, in in this day and age, a woman who is a great cook/homemaker is kinda more impressive.
 
2013-04-01 02:48:40 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.


Good on ya.  You're aces in my book.  Not sarcastically, either.
 
2013-04-01 02:53:19 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."


Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.
 
2013-04-01 02:59:06 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: This text is now purple: Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.

I think that is what he meant by amateur violinist, husband and father of two. He was amateur at all of those things...


How smart could he be really?  He married his cousin.  And he got divorced.  He was as common as every other man in Kentucky.
 
2013-04-01 03:14:15 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Honestly, in in this day and age, a woman who is a great cook/homemaker is kinda more impressive.


I bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, clean up everything afterward, make all the money, pay all the bills, schedule the kids' appointments (and take them or arrange their rides), do ALL the grocery / clothing / etc. shopping, arrange for plumbers / electricians / etc. as needed, and anything/everything else.

Being a single mom means I had to do it all - with sleep deprivation (I'm the one getting up in the night to feed / change / care for the kids) and a full-time job.

If I had someone else to help me with the bills and the chores, maybe I could do rocket science, too, but there's no time/money/energy for college, anyway.

And btw: my beef stroganoff is my mother's recipe, and it is killer.

/Thought this would be a recipe thread.
//HATE tomato-based products in beef stroganoff, by the way.
///Slashies!!!
 
2013-04-01 03:14:33 PM  

Egoy3k: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."

Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.


Then I expect that all NYT obits will open with the private household accomplishments, only later moving on to the reason they warranted a NYT obit.
 
2013-04-01 03:28:34 PM  
Did someone say "feminism"?

QUICK!  SUMMON THE GAMER BOYS!  THEY WILL PROTECT US FROM THE "F" WORD!

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-01 03:45:09 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: This text is now purple: Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.

I think that is what he meant by amateur violinist, husband and father of two. He was amateur at all of those things...


Being a professional father is illegal.
 
2013-04-01 03:49:38 PM  

PunGent: Theaetetus: Soon, the couple went square-dancing, only to discover that they both hated it. They found other interests, and married in 1951.

Those "other interests" were sex, right?

IrishFarmer: Graffito: You're a straight, white, cis-gendered, heteronormative male who never experiences microaggressions, aren't you?

And you're a 20-something, middle class white female, aren't you?  Look, if stereotyping people is a bad thing, then it's always a bad thing.  Don't just pick and choose.

Also, you missed a few labels to apply to the other poster, but fortunately I was able to add them back into your quotes.

A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.

The dictionary definition is broader than "hatred or mistrust" and includes gender-based "devaluation";  which putting her cooking above her science arguably does.


Your evaluation presupposes that scientists are more important than cooks; check your privilege.
 
2013-04-01 03:53:03 PM  
its sexist to imply that traditional female tasks are somehow of lesser worth than the traditional male domain of science?

duly noted.
 
2013-04-01 03:54:23 PM  
Let's face it, most obituaries are stupid. They either deify the subject or insult them in some way (like this one did).

I think I'm gonna write my own obituary and give it to one of my siblings (or I guess, to be safe, one of my more reliable nieces/nephews) to be published in the event of my death. Or placed on my virtual gravesite or GoogleFaceSite or whatever the hell they're doing with obituaries by the time I kick the bucket.
 
2013-04-01 03:54:34 PM  
it's

godmanitsomuch
 
2013-04-01 03:56:00 PM  

Magorn: ProfessorOhki: Skirl Hutsenreiter: I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things. But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.

It's not really strange. It's emphasized here, because for her era, she was a pioneer. The very reason that other stuff is included is to highlight that her innovations came from a then-unexpected place.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to put a humanistic angle into an bio-piece that would otherwise be completely technical. They mention that Goddard was often sick as a child, they mention Einstein's lack of care for his appearance, they mention Tesla's oddities, and I bet, when Hawking goes, they'll mention that he was in a wheelchair. This was an article about the person, not just her work.

Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...
Above all, in and out of science, Dr. Feynman was a curious character -his phrase, and the double meaning was intentional. He was never content with what he knew or what other people knew. He taught himself how to fix radios, pick locks, draw nudes, speak Portuguese, play the bongos and decipher Mayan hieroglyphics. He pursued knowledge without prejudice, studying the tracking ability of ants in his bathtub and learning enough biology to study the mutation of bacteriophages.

/If you're remembered ONLY for your work
//You must not be very an interesting person

It's called "burying the lede",  a no-no in journalism.  You start off with why the person is famous/affected our lives  enough to rate a big obit in the NY Times, then, having caught your reader's attention proceed to humanize them and tell lesser known things about them.  Leading with the Stroganoff usggests there is no more there there.


This. The writer thought he was being clever. Like most writers, he is mistaken.
 
2013-04-01 03:57:51 PM  
I'm not exactly the PC police myself.... but after reading how they phrased it originally I can understand people being irritated at it. I mean, It's not exactly like the NYT just opened a new concentration camp or something, but it was pretty thoughtless. They should have originally written it like what they changed it to.

Women fought long and hard (no pun intended) for the rights to work in whatever field they liked, just like men. She was a freakin' rocket scientist too... Don't bury that lead, it's impressive.
 
2013-04-01 04:05:41 PM  

Egoy3k: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."

Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.


I totally recognize that the career I enjoy doing and makes me decent money is not going to gain me recognition for changing the world. But when I raise kids,  will raise them to be pretty decent people, I hope. Not texting-while-driving, line-cutting, over-customized java drinking, ironic-dressing hipsters, but people you'd want to have a drink with and chat about nothing in particular. I'm fairly sure that my legacy will be not raising pretentious jackwagons with a trunk full of participation trophies and a major sense of entitlement.
 
2013-04-01 04:07:40 PM  

itsdan: staplermofo: Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?

I think the proper response to this is "lol fragile male ego!"


So if a man points out the blatant sexism against men in an article, he has a "fragile male ego"?  In the interests of gender equality, from this point on, any woman who points out possible sexism against women in an article must have a "lol fragile female ego".  Otherwise, a double standard exists, and we don't support sexism, do we?
 
2013-04-01 04:07:53 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Your evaluation presupposes that scientists are more important than cooks; check your privilege.


Can't eat science.
 
2013-04-01 04:13:23 PM  

mama2tnt: And btw: my beef stroganoff is my mother's recipe, and it is killer.

/Thought this would be a recipe thread.


Well, what's stopping you? I certainly wouldn't mind.
 
2013-04-01 04:13:59 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: ProfessorOhki: Your evaluation presupposes that scientists are more important than cooks; check your privilege.

Can't eat science.


Apparently, you don't know the same scientists I do.
 
2013-04-01 04:15:19 PM  

buckler: Man On Pink Corner: ProfessorOhki: Your evaluation presupposes that scientists are more important than cooks; check your privilege.

Can't eat science.

Apparently, you don't know the same scientists I do.


Cooking is artful, baking is scientific. MmMm... cookie experiments.

/sounding fat, FTW.
 
2013-04-01 04:17:49 PM  

Mattoon: itsdan: staplermofo: Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?

I think the proper response to this is "lol fragile male ego!"

So if a man points out the blatant sexism against men in an article, he has a "fragile male ego"?  In the interests of gender equality, from this point on, any woman who points out possible sexism against women in an article must have a "lol fragile female ego".  Otherwise, a double standard exists, and we don't support sexism, do we?


You totally have a fragile male ego.  Let it go.
 
2013-04-01 04:18:24 PM  
"you just have to be cheerful and not get upset about it" she once said.
 
2013-04-01 04:37:41 PM  
BURN YOUR APRONS!
 
2013-04-01 04:44:19 PM  

staplermofo: It's an obituary, not a biography.
The offensive part is "The article went on to suggest that it took two men to create an adhesive stationery but only one woman to figure out how to keep satellites in place."
Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?  Screw you Post-It Note guys, a woman did rocket science.  Classy.


I thought Romy and Michelle invented Post-it Notes.

They're the ones who realized that although ordinarily when you make glue first you need to thermoset your resin and then after it cools you have to mix in an epoxide, which is really just a fancy-schmancy name for any simple oxygenated adhesive, right? And then they thought maybe, just maybe, you could raise the viscosity by adding a complex glucose derivative during the emulsification process.

It turned out they were right.
 
2013-04-01 04:55:21 PM  

Graffito: JackieRabbit: The whole thing is beyond silly. Time to grow up, whiney America!
 
You're a straight white male, aren't you?


Yep. Feel free to bash and belittle him at every turn.

cause you know. Its ok when you direct it at straight white guys. They're pure evi
 
2013-04-01 04:56:23 PM  

Ponzholio: If they truly want to make amends, they should post her beef stroganoff recipe...


Yes. I cooked and baked for decades
and I used geometry, calculus, algebra, physics, and a lot of science to be good at what I did.
I can tell a lot about a person by their recipes,
Is she a nutmeg in the sour cream person?
Or one of those who only uses Pennsylvania Brand Dutch Noodles, and a can of cream of mushroom and a can of beef gravy?
Or does she use hamburger or choice cuts, sauteed in garlic oil before deglazing the pan and making a proper gravy
 
2013-04-01 04:56:23 PM  

IrishFarmer: Graffito: You're a straight, white, cis-gendered, heteronormative male who never experiences microaggressions, aren't you?

And you're a 20-something, middle class white female, aren't you?  Look, if stereotyping people is a bad thing, then it's always a bad thing.  Don't just pick and choose.

Also, you missed a few labels to apply to the other poster, but fortunately I was able to add them back into your quotes.

A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.


Brilliant, incisive, accurate. The internet could do with more of this.

Even more amazing that it came from a drunken potato-sucking peasant.
 
2013-04-01 04:58:24 PM  

Lumpmoose: Besides the saccharine folksiness, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with starting the article like that.  But it shows the NYT is tone deaf to decades of women fighting to get more representation in STEM fields.


Nonsense the shrieking harpies just like to undervalue the skills of homemaking and cooking; both of which are in short supply.
 
2013-04-01 04:58:51 PM  

trappedspirit: BURN YOUR APRONS!


I set my pot holder on fire last week... while I was wearing it. It doesn't mean I'm bad in the kitchen though, I swear.
 
2013-04-01 05:09:24 PM  

minoridiot: I met her back in 1989.  The one thing that really remember about her was that she had tuck her shirt into her underwear which was showing about 1" above her waistline.


1.647 inches, actually
 
2013-04-01 05:15:20 PM  

Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

Father of two and star of his familiy's annual Thanksgiving Day touch football game, John F. Kennedy passed away in Dallas after a very short illness, he was also briefly President of the United States from 1960-1963

Local Businessman and former University of Cleveland Engineering Professor Neil Armstrong has passed away, he is survived by a wife and son, who will miss his gardening and landscaping skills.  He was also  a commissioned officer in the Navy, and a Korean war vet, who also is credited with doing some pioneering aerospace work while employed by NASA in the late 1960's



...can I hire you to write my obit?
 
2013-04-01 05:16:09 PM  

vicioushobbit: hitlersbrain: Yes... but then what isn't sexist today?

/ I'd really like to know.

Potatoes.


Wrong. They will grope you with their eyes.
 
2013-04-01 05:20:31 PM  
Valiente: Well, she was no Werner von Braun, but who among us is?

Don't say that he's hypocritical, say rather that he's apolitical.
 
2013-04-01 05:23:46 PM  
the obituary of a brilliant rocket scientists   ... so, she has/had a twin ?
 
2013-04-01 05:24:19 PM  

yourmomlovestetris: You hear that housewives of America? All of that hard work you put into making a home and raising children means nothing, NOTHING to the health and well being of the future of America! Only work that's OUTSIDE the home matters in the great scheme of things!

Signed, Feminists of America Someone who wouldn't recognize an actual feminist if she throttled him with a burning bra.


FTFY
 
2013-04-01 05:26:57 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: ProfessorOhki: Your evaluation presupposes that scientists are more important than cooks; check your privilege.

Can't eat science.


I'm going to gently point out that you are very mistaken.  Unless my sarcasm detector is broken, in which case I award you one of these.
 
2013-04-01 05:28:26 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...



Surely You're Joking, ProfessorOhki!
 
2013-04-01 05:31:43 PM  

PunGent: aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.

Is this sarcasm?

I like sushi, but if I had to quit either sushi or stroganoff for the rest of my life, the fish could rest a little easier...chowder or tiramisou over either, however.


Ceviche would like to have a word with you.  A yummy, yummy word.
 
2013-04-01 05:34:39 PM  

Egoy3k: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."

Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.



On some level, I agree with you.

But on another level, when I read a biography of Julius Ceaser, I don't expect the first chapter to be about his accomplishments in the kitchen.
 
2013-04-01 05:45:27 PM  

ciberido: Egoy3k: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."

Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.


On some level, I agree with you.

But on another level, when I read a biography of Julius Ceaser, I don't expect the first chapter to be about his accomplishments in the kitchen.


As has been pointed out this was an Obit not a bio. Maybe, just maybe, being a good homemaker and cook for her family were more important to her than the rocket science and what she wanted to be remember for most.
 
2013-04-01 06:01:19 PM  

ciberido: Egoy3k: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."

Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.


On some level, I agree with you.

But on another level, when I read a biography of Julius Ceaser, I don't expect the first chapter to be about his accomplishments in the kitchen.


I want to know what Caesar would have been good at cooking. I don't anticipate he was a type to get in the kitchen, but if he did, that would be awesome to learn. I would want to know if he was a fast runner or was good at some other athletic type endeavor...
 
2013-04-01 06:15:07 PM  

ciberido: Egoy3k: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."

Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.


On some level, I agree with you.

But on another level, when I read a biography of Julius Ceaser, I don't expect the first chapter to be about his accomplishments in the kitchen.


He's well known for his contributions in the field of salad.
 
2013-04-01 06:16:53 PM  

ciberido: But on another level, when I read a biography of Julius Ceaser, I don't expect the first chapter to be about his accomplishments in the kitchen.


Why not? He made a mean salad.
 
2013-04-01 06:19:05 PM  

hasty ambush: Maybe, just maybe, being a good homemaker and cook for her family were more important to her than the rocket science and what she wanted to be remember for most.


True, it seems pretty clear that nobody cares about what she would have wanted.

Occasionally, peoples' family life is more important to them than their creative or scientific pursuits.  I don't quite understand that sentiment myself, because it would seem to put humans on the same cultural level as lesser primates.  But I know that many others, perhaps a vast majority, disagree with me.

If her children/grandchildren had a chance to sign off on the obituary, which was probably the case, then it's a non-issue.  Only they can say what she would have wanted people to remember her for.
 
2013-04-01 06:21:06 PM  

This text is now purple: ciberido: But on another level, when I read a biography of Julius Ceaser, I don't expect the first chapter to be about his accomplishments in the kitchen.

Why not? He made a mean salad.


And the drinks he made with citrus areamazing.
 
2013-04-01 06:43:14 PM  

PunGent: The dictionary definition is broader than "hatred or mistrust" and includes gender-based "devaluation"; which putting her cooking above her science arguably does.


In what way?

Her work as a scientist certainly had benefits, the scope of which are debatable. Being a good mother? That benefits the entire species.

Why do you insist that the latter is worth less than the former?
 
2013-04-01 06:56:40 PM  
All of her accomplishments are important for a complete picture of who she was.  I'm all for equality and as a woman who excelled in math and science but never regrettably pursued that path, I admire her accomplishments, but let's stop being ridiculous about every little imagined slight.
 
2013-04-01 07:10:00 PM  

This text is now purple: ciberido: But on another level, when I read a biography of Julius Ceaser, I don't expect the first chapter to be about his accomplishments in the kitchen.

Why not? He made a mean salad.


My work here is done.
 
gja
2013-04-01 07:22:48 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: What else are they supposed to lead off with? She sure wasn't a looker.


Uh, watch the you-tube vid of her speaking about her work. It shows her in her college years.

/would you have hit it? yes, yes you would have.
 
gja
2013-04-01 07:27:31 PM  

ChipNASA: SAMMICHES!

 
gja
2013-04-01 07:29:09 PM  

gja: ChipNASA: SAMMICHES!


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
gja
2013-04-01 07:31:07 PM  

Magorn: Well, to be fair her beef stroganoff recipie involved pre-browning the meat by subjecting it to a three second thruster burn of an LOX booster


WUT?
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
gja
2013-04-01 07:46:49 PM  

ProfessorOhki: But on another level, when I read a biography of Julius Ceaser, I don't expect the first chapter to be about his accomplishments in the kitchen.

He's well known for his contributions in the field of salad.


And cutlery. And sections.
 
2013-04-01 08:57:56 PM  
Renaissance woman.
 
2013-04-01 09:46:20 PM  
I didn't know Adria Richards was a farker
 
2013-04-01 10:01:47 PM  
I do not have a problem with the obit beginning with her home life. If she was anything like me, my two children are the reason I work so hard. I want them to see that a fulfilling life takes place in the kitchen and at work. I would not have an issue with my obit beginning that "Many of Shakespeare's Sister's coworkers loved her home-made chicken Parmesan and brownies." It would be good to know that I was not boxed into the corner of English professor, but rather seen an more than my education and accomplishments at work.
 
2013-04-01 10:53:32 PM  

Shakespeare's Sister: I do not have a problem with the obit beginning with her home life. If she was anything like me, my two children are the reason I work so hard. I want them to see that a fulfilling life takes place in the kitchen and at work. I would not have an issue with my obit beginning that "Many of Shakespeare's Sister's coworkers loved her home-made chicken Parmesan and brownies." It would be good to know that I was not boxed into the corner of English professor, but rather seen an more than my education and accomplishments at work.


You monster!
 
2013-04-01 10:55:21 PM  
Wait... Chicken parmesan, and also brownies... I guess that is okay.

I assumed that was one thing. And if it actually was,  you monster!
 
2013-04-02 01:53:31 AM  

Molavian: So women can't be brilliant and cook?

Good to know.


Of course they can.  And that obit would have been fine, if any male obit was written the same way.  But they never are.

She isn't notable for being a good cook.  Lots of women (and men) are.  Lots of women (and men) are good home makers.  Very few are rocket scientists.  That's why she rates an obit like this in the first place.

If this same obit was being written for a man, do you think his achievements in the field he was actually famous for would be relegated to second paragraph status?  You think when Brian Cox dies, they'll start his obit with "He baked a mean soufflé, did a good job cleaning the bathroom every second week, oh and by the way, he was a brilliant scientist, too."?


In the same way it would be fine to ask a leading businesswoman about her plans to have children or how she balances her family with her work if they ever asked leading businessmen the same questions.  No one badgers the men in articles for Forbes about if they plan to spawn.

It's not the approach that's wrong, it's that the approach emphasising "home" over "vocational achievements" is never placed on men, not even on men in "home" professions like chefs.
 
2013-04-02 03:52:49 AM  
How was she in the bedroom?
 
2013-04-02 07:20:33 AM  

if_i_really_have_to: In the same way it would be fine to ask a leading businesswoman about her plans to have children or how she balances her family with her work if they ever asked leading businessmen the same questions. No one badgers the men in articles for Forbes about if they plan to spawn.


Running a large company times a lot of commitment, long hours weekends, constant connection to the office and a level head. Having a a CEO who might become hormonally unbalanced, disappear for a few months, and be unable to put in the same amount of time when she returns is is worth knowing.

I'm well aware that this is going to go over about as well as a lead balloon but please be honest, do you really think the professional repercussions of having a child are the same for men as they are for women?
 
gja
2013-04-02 09:32:05 AM  

Egoy3k: if_i_really_have_to: In the same way it would be fine to ask a leading businesswoman about her plans to have children or how she balances her family with her work if they ever asked leading businessmen the same questions. No one badgers the men in articles for Forbes about if they plan to spawn.

Running a large company times a lot of commitment, long hours weekends, constant connection to the office and a level head. Having a a CEO who might become hormonally unbalanced, disappear for a few months, and be unable to put in the same amount of time when she returns is is worth knowing.

I'm well aware that this is going to go over about as well as a lead balloon but please be honest, do you really think the professional repercussions of having a child are the same for men as they are for women?


FYI, at THAT level there are usually nannies/nurses/sitters involved. Those women tend to pass off the daily mundane stuff to others because....they can.
They have the money and position, generally, to not have to deal with diapers and stuff. And as for the "hormonally unbalanced" bit, well meds take care of that usually.
 
2013-04-02 09:52:03 AM  

gja: Egoy3k: if_i_really_have_to: In the same way it would be fine to ask a leading businesswoman about her plans to have children or how she balances her family with her work if they ever asked leading businessmen the same questions. No one badgers the men in articles for Forbes about if they plan to spawn.

Running a large company times a lot of commitment, long hours weekends, constant connection to the office and a level head. Having a a CEO who might become hormonally unbalanced, disappear for a few months, and be unable to put in the same amount of time when she returns is is worth knowing.

I'm well aware that this is going to go over about as well as a lead balloon but please be honest, do you really think the professional repercussions of having a child are the same for men as they are for women?

FYI, at THAT level there are usually nannies/nurses/sitters involved. Those women tend to pass off the daily mundane stuff to others because....they can.
They have the money and position, generally, to not have to deal with diapers and stuff. And as for the "hormonally unbalanced" bit, well meds take care of that usually.


I'm aware and I do understand but my point is that the question is distasteful and sexist but still somewhat valid.  A lot of 'powerful' people (of either sex) see pregnancy as a self inflicted medical condition that hinders your ability to be successful professionally.  I'm not saying that this is right but a lot investors want to know this stuff and it's the job of a business writer to find out what their readers want to know.
 
Ook
2013-04-02 11:55:25 AM  
I think if you want to look at how the NYT obits handle a brilliant scientist who also has a multifaceted life and personality, you could do worse than look at how they handled Feynman's obit:  http://www.nytimes.com/1988/02/17/obituaries/richard-feynman-dead-at- 6 9-leading-theoretical-physicist.html  While they talk about many of the very cool and unique turns his life took, that is not their hook for why you should read this obituary. The NYT obits are not standard family-requested obituaries, it is supposed to be a short bio for everyone else in the world to be told why we should care this person has just died. Leading with their most noted contributions to the world is standard practice and the journalist who wrote the article we're all talking about deserves to be laughed at for his clear sexism. When he writes obits for male scientists the family are definitely not the leading paragraph, the most famous accomplishment is.

It's lovely to include her abilities as a wife and mother, but I'm not interested in reading obituaries of every great mom. I will sometimes read obituaries of great scientists however, and if I were skimming through their obituaries page I would have skipped hers because that was what they thought most notable about her, and most interesting to their readers.
 
2013-04-02 06:42:46 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.

If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.

I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things.  But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.



No it is not strange, and I have read plenty of obituaries of accomplished men that included info about their interaction with their families, or their handiness around the house, or their prosaic hobbies like fishing or fixing cars, or model trains, etc, etc....the fact that stroganoff was mentioned in an obituary that was for a woman who took years out of a brilliant career to raise a family, yet still returned to that brilliant career and claimed further success, is not odd at all.  If you read it in the context presented, it is an inspiring tale that encompasses both humble family life yet still rises to a crescendo of accomplishment without being crass, dismissive, or preachy (unlike the complainers).

You'd think some "interent feminists" would praise the article for that, since it accomplishes what so many activists fail at, but instead all they do is whine and piss and moan, like bitter, spoiled failures always do.

It is only petty, self-obsessed moral-police types that think everyone should modify everything they do based only on their own whims that would bat an eye, and there are plenty of those kinds of people among the internet feminist retard brigade.
 
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