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(Yahoo)   NY Times admits that, in retrospect, it might have been a wee bit sexist for them to lead off the obituary of a brilliant rocket scientists and National Technology Medal winner with a description of what a great cook and homemaker she was   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 147
    More: Obvious, prompt corner, National Medal of Technology, obituary, descriptions, NYT  
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5797 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Apr 2013 at 11:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-01 01:06:22 PM
You hear that housewives of America? All of that hard work you put into making a home and raising children means nothing, NOTHING to the health and well being of the future of America! Only work that's OUTSIDE the home matters in the great scheme of things!

Signed, Feminists of America.
 
2013-04-01 01:06:23 PM

Graffito: You're a straight, white, cis-gendered, heteronormative male who never experiences microaggressions, aren't you?


And you're a 20-something, middle class white female, aren't you?  Look, if stereotyping people is a bad thing, then it's always a bad thing.  Don't just pick and choose.

Also, you missed a few labels to apply to the other poster, but fortunately I was able to add them back into your quotes.

A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.
 
2013-04-01 01:08:17 PM
SAMMICHES!
 
2013-04-01 01:08:54 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.

If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.


Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

Father of two and star of his familiy's annual Thanksgiving Day touch football game, John F. Kennedy passed away in Dallas after a very short illness, he was also briefly President of the United States from 1960-1963

Local Businessman and former University of Cleveland Engineering Professor Neil Armstrong has passed away, he is survived by a wife and son, who will miss his gardening and landscaping skills.  He was also  a commissioned officer in the Navy, and a Korean war vet, who also is credited with doing some pioneering aerospace work while employed by NASA in the late 1960's
 
2013-04-01 01:09:31 PM

Graffito: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.

Yes, and it would be nice if we could eat bacon and cheesecake for every meal and not become morbidly obese, but, alas, that it not the world we live in.


You're not willing to exercise to keep your weight under control while eating what you want? Unfortunate.

I just had to have this conversation with my mother-in-law who was just SHOCKED that I wouldn't be staying home if we have kids. Um... her son isn't the primary breadwinner in our household and won't be for some time... so unless I wait till 40 to have children and risk those complications, I am going to be working when my kids are small. Just like both my mom and my mother-in-law did. But somehow, its suddenly not OK for her hypothetical grandchildren to have a working mother? Maybe she should have raised her son differently (less free spirit hippie-dippie BS) and maybe he'd have some high power earning potential... She and anyone else who makes this an issue can go pound sand.
 
2013-04-01 01:12:54 PM

yourmomlovestetris: You hear that housewives of America? All of that hard work you put into making a home and raising children means nothing, NOTHING to the health and well being of the future of America! Only work that's OUTSIDE the home matters in the great scheme of things!

Signed, Feminists of America.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-01 01:15:29 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.

If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.

I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things.  But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.


Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

I have people in my life already saying that I shouldn't be the one to work. That sucks. My mom worked. My dad lost his job the month before I was born. My mom supported our family and when it took 25 months for my dad to get another job, we weren't destroyed or receiving welfare. I still would say my mom's cooking was farking fantastic and I know (since she continually advanced in her career) that her boss thought she did a good job as a computer programmer.
 
2013-04-01 01:15:39 PM

IrishFarmer: A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.


I think you've confused the word "sexism" with the word "malicious". The point is that sexism can be so ingrained that, without any malice, "hatred", or "mistrust", you still nonetheless have gender-based prejudices and engage in discrimination.
 
2013-04-01 01:17:10 PM

Magorn: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.

One may hope to be remembered by those close to you however you like, but nobody gets an obituary in the NYT for being a wonderful parent, much less keeping house well.  She got an obituary for her work as a scientist.

If I had an NYT Obit, I would actually like if it said my food was as good as my work. I think it would be nice if we could stop acting like its an affront to feminism to be good at traditional homemaker skills at the same time as we compete with men.

Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

Father of two and star of his familiy's annual Thanksgiving Day touch football game, John F. Kennedy passed away in Dallas after a very short illness, he was also briefly President of the United States from 1960-1963

Local Businessman and former University of Cleveland Engineering Professor Neil Armstrong has passed away, he is survived by a wife and son, who will miss his gardening and landscaping skills.  He was also  a commissioned officer in the Navy, and a Korean war vet, who also is credited with doing some pioneering aerospace work while employed by NASA in the late 1960's


This made me LOL.
 
2013-04-01 01:19:44 PM

minoridiot: I met her back in 1989.  The one thing that really remember about her was that she had tuck her shirt into her underwear which was showing about 1" above her waistline.


When I was in grade school, I was one of those people who couldn't seem to keep my shirt tucked in no matter how much I tried.  Some other kids had no problem, and I wondered what they did.  One day it occurred to me that they probably tucked their shirt into their underwear.  So I did that one day... and got suspended for showing off my underwear.  I told them I was trying to keep it tucked in and they didn't believe me.
 
2013-04-01 01:23:57 PM

cman: People like to zazz up their writings.

I think it was an honest mistake. I dont think that the writer knew how it was going to be perceived. He/she wanted to make the obit a bit more dramatic.


I suspect he's one of those "I don't discriminate, and I don't know anyone who does, therefor women are being treated equally" types. So he thought he'd make it cute and folksy and start the obit of a world-renown engineer and scientist with the personal side most people never see.

It was a flattering article that mostly concentrated on her professional accomplishments. Still, someone at the NYTimes should have known better and prevented that opening.
 
2013-04-01 01:27:43 PM
Look, if I had invented some super duper satellite space thingy then I would want to be remembered for that and not for my goddamned beef stroganoff.  One of those things is a little more l33t than the other.
 
2013-04-01 01:28:42 PM
God forbid they humanize her and talk about her family before mentioning her 1970s rocket accomplishments.
 
2013-04-01 01:28:50 PM

Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,


The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.
 
2013-04-01 01:33:15 PM

aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.


I agree.

Of course, a lot of men only cook when they have the day off and can make a big production out of it. Women wind up being the ones that have to get dinner together at the end of a busy day, and they often consider health and nutrition more than men do. Not that beef stroganoff is what I'd call a healthy dish.
 
2013-04-01 01:33:50 PM

This text is now purple: Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.


I think that is what he meant by amateur violinist, husband and father of two. He was amateur at all of those things...
 
2013-04-01 01:35:30 PM
If I was a nobel prize winning scientist and the newspaper's article on me started off with what an amazing car mechanic or cook or toilet rebuilder I was, I wouldn't feel slighted at all. it would also be fine if they just gushed about how big a wang I have, too. I'd be ok with that.
 
2013-04-01 01:35:41 PM

Krieghund: aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.

I agree.

Of course, a lot of men only cook when they have the day off and can make a big production out of it. Women wind up being the ones that have to get dinner together at the end of a busy day, and they often consider health and nutrition more than men do. Not that beef stroganoff is what I'd call a healthy dish.


My husband cooks very well, but you're right, he does it on a Sunday and there is much drama and intrigue when its done. And I've never quizzed him about the calorie content of the food he produces... but when I cook... just saying. Nutrition Facts or it doesn't count...
 
2013-04-01 01:36:24 PM
Yes... but then what isn't sexist today?

/ I'd really like to know.
 
2013-04-01 01:50:04 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things. But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.


It's not really strange. It's emphasized here, because for her era, she was a pioneer. The very reason that other stuff is included is to highlight that her innovations came from a then-unexpected place.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to put a humanistic angle into an bio-piece that would otherwise be completely technical. They mention that Goddard was often sick as a child, they mention Einstein's lack of care for his appearance, they mention Tesla's oddities, and I bet, when Hawking goes, they'll mention that he was in a wheelchair. This was an article about the person, not just her work.

Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...
Above all, in and out of science, Dr. Feynman was a curious character -his phrase, and the double meaning was intentional. He was never content with what he knew or what other people knew. He taught himself how to fix radios, pick locks, draw nudes, speak Portuguese, play the bongos and decipher Mayan hieroglyphics. He pursued knowledge without prejudice, studying the tracking ability of ants in his bathtub and learning enough biology to study the mutation of bacteriophages.

/If you're remembered ONLY for your work
//You must not be very an interesting person
 
2013-04-01 01:54:05 PM

ProfessorOhki: Skirl Hutsenreiter: I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things. But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.

It's not really strange. It's emphasized here, because for her era, she was a pioneer. The very reason that other stuff is included is to highlight that her innovations came from a then-unexpected place.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to put a humanistic angle into an bio-piece that would otherwise be completely technical. They mention that Goddard was often sick as a child, they mention Einstein's lack of care for his appearance, they mention Tesla's oddities, and I bet, when Hawking goes, they'll mention that he was in a wheelchair. This was an article about the person, not just her work.

Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...
Above all, in and out of science, Dr. Feynman was a curious character -his phrase, and the double meaning was intentional. He was never content with what he knew or what other people knew. He taught himself how to fix radios, pick locks, draw nudes, speak Portuguese, play the bongos and decipher Mayan hieroglyphics. He pursued knowledge without prejudice, studying the tracking ability of ants in his bathtub and learning enough biology to study the mutation of bacteriophages.

/If you're remembered ONLY for your work
//You must not be very an interesting person


It's called "burying the lede",  a no-no in journalism.  You start off with why the person is famous/affected our lives  enough to rate a big obit in the NY Times, then, having caught your reader's attention proceed to humanize them and tell lesser known things about them.  Leading with the Stroganoff usggests there is no more there there.
 
2013-04-01 01:55:37 PM

This text is now purple: Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.


Let's not forget "crappy sailor" and "shabby dresser" and "generally unkempt".
 
2013-04-01 01:58:51 PM

hitlersbrain: Yes... but then what isn't sexist today?

/ I'd really like to know.


Potatoes.
 
2013-04-01 01:59:28 PM

Magorn: ProfessorOhki: Skirl Hutsenreiter: I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things. But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.

It's not really strange. It's emphasized here, because for her era, she was a pioneer. The very reason that other stuff is included is to highlight that her innovations came from a then-unexpected place.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to put a humanistic angle into an bio-piece that would otherwise be completely technical. They mention that Goddard was often sick as a child, they mention Einstein's lack of care for his appearance, they mention Tesla's oddities, and I bet, when Hawking goes, they'll mention that he was in a wheelchair. This was an article about the person, not just her work.

Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...
Above all, in and out of science, Dr. Feynman was a curious character -his phrase, and the double meaning was intentional. He was never content with what he knew or what other people knew. He taught himself how to fix radios, pick locks, draw nudes, speak Portuguese, play the bongos and decipher Mayan hieroglyphics. He pursued knowledge without prejudice, studying the tracking ability of ants in his bathtub and learning enough biology to study the mutation of bacteriophages.

/If you're remembered ONLY for your work
//You must not be very an interesting person

It's called "burying the lede",  a no-no in journalism.  You start off with why the person is famous/affected our lives  enough to rate a big obit in the NY Times, then, having caught your reader's attention proceed to humanize them and tell lesser known things about them.  Leading with the Stroganoff usggests there is no more there there.


What was the original headline? (Serious, I think I've only seen the newer version). You're right though, it shouldn't have been the lead, but I get the feeling we'd be having a similar conversation even if it was 3 paragraphs in.
 
2013-04-01 02:05:34 PM

itsdan: staplermofo: Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?

I think the proper response to this is "lol fragile male ego!"


No the canned response is "double standard."
 
2013-04-01 02:08:13 PM

FarkingReading: That's nothing. The original version began: "She could suck the chrome off a bumper...."


She was also recognized as being the Pele of anal
 
2013-04-01 02:11:34 PM

Christian Bale: The people who criticized it really don't see that? They really think the writer wanted to highlight her home and family achievements and diminish the others?


I think we're falling down some sort of crazy reactionary rabbit hole here.  The last few stories about purported "sexism" have left me scratching my head. There was nothing in the world wrong with the obit as originally written.
 
2013-04-01 02:19:23 PM

Theaetetus: Soon, the couple went square-dancing, only to discover that they both hated it. They found other interests, and married in 1951.

Those "other interests" were sex, right?


IrishFarmer: Graffito: You're a straight, white, cis-gendered, heteronormative male who never experiences microaggressions, aren't you?

And you're a 20-something, middle class white female, aren't you?  Look, if stereotyping people is a bad thing, then it's always a bad thing.  Don't just pick and choose.

Also, you missed a few labels to apply to the other poster, but fortunately I was able to add them back into your quotes.

A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.


The dictionary definition is broader than "hatred or mistrust" and includes gender-based "devaluation";  which putting her cooking above her science arguably does.
 
2013-04-01 02:20:47 PM
The New York Times pratfalls, as usual. The first was bad, the second is worse.
 
2013-04-01 02:23:22 PM

aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.


Is this sarcasm?

I like sushi, but if I had to quit either sushi or stroganoff for the rest of my life, the fish could rest a little easier...chowder or tiramisou over either, however.
 
2013-04-01 02:36:01 PM

PunGent: aerojockey: Really, her signature dish is beef stroganoff?  Come on, male scientists and engineers would be ashamed to admit we even cook that garbage let alone it being our best dish.  A male engineer would be cooking cool stuff like sushi or New England clam chowder or tiramisou.  Women still have a long way to go.

Is this sarcasm?

I like sushi, but if I had to quit either sushi or stroganoff for the rest of my life, the fish could rest a little easier...chowder or tiramisou over either, however.


Not many Farkers could quit stroganoff for the rest of their lives. Hell, remember the uproar when Drew got rid of Foobies?
 
2013-04-01 02:44:42 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."


But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."
 
2013-04-01 02:46:30 PM
Honestly, in in this day and age, a woman who is a great cook/homemaker is kinda more impressive.
 
2013-04-01 02:48:40 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not a scientist, nor am I a mother [yet] but I sure hope that I get as much respect for my cooking and homemaking as I get from my work in sales. I take my laundry, cooking, dog-care, cleaning, baking and general domestication very seriously. Yeah... I seriously doubt my sales work (not Mary Kay or Scentsy) will be noteworthy... I'll be glad to recognized as a good wife, homemaker at the same time as being a working woman.


Good on ya.  You're aces in my book.  Not sarcastically, either.
 
2013-04-01 02:53:19 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."


Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.
 
2013-04-01 02:59:06 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: This text is now purple: Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.

I think that is what he meant by amateur violinist, husband and father of two. He was amateur at all of those things...


How smart could he be really?  He married his cousin.  And he got divorced.  He was as common as every other man in Kentucky.
 
2013-04-01 03:14:15 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Honestly, in in this day and age, a woman who is a great cook/homemaker is kinda more impressive.


I bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, clean up everything afterward, make all the money, pay all the bills, schedule the kids' appointments (and take them or arrange their rides), do ALL the grocery / clothing / etc. shopping, arrange for plumbers / electricians / etc. as needed, and anything/everything else.

Being a single mom means I had to do it all - with sleep deprivation (I'm the one getting up in the night to feed / change / care for the kids) and a full-time job.

If I had someone else to help me with the bills and the chores, maybe I could do rocket science, too, but there's no time/money/energy for college, anyway.

And btw: my beef stroganoff is my mother's recipe, and it is killer.

/Thought this would be a recipe thread.
//HATE tomato-based products in beef stroganoff, by the way.
///Slashies!!!
 
2013-04-01 03:14:33 PM

Egoy3k: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."

Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.


Then I expect that all NYT obits will open with the private household accomplishments, only later moving on to the reason they warranted a NYT obit.
 
2013-04-01 03:28:34 PM
Did someone say "feminism"?

QUICK!  SUMMON THE GAMER BOYS!  THEY WILL PROTECT US FROM THE "F" WORD!

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-01 03:45:09 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: This text is now purple: Magorn: Amateur violinist, husband, and father of two Albert Eistein has passed away, he was also considered by some to be an accomplished physcist,

The difference is, Einstein was a terrible father and husband.

I think that is what he meant by amateur violinist, husband and father of two. He was amateur at all of those things...


Being a professional father is illegal.
 
2013-04-01 03:49:38 PM

PunGent: Theaetetus: Soon, the couple went square-dancing, only to discover that they both hated it. They found other interests, and married in 1951.

Those "other interests" were sex, right?

IrishFarmer: Graffito: You're a straight, white, cis-gendered, heteronormative male who never experiences microaggressions, aren't you?

And you're a 20-something, middle class white female, aren't you?  Look, if stereotyping people is a bad thing, then it's always a bad thing.  Don't just pick and choose.

Also, you missed a few labels to apply to the other poster, but fortunately I was able to add them back into your quotes.

A slight pet peeve of mine:  The NYT article was (probably) not sexism.  I didn't read the original form, but if we're going to use words like sexism and racism this way, then they just lose all meaning.  Sexism is hatred or mistrust of a person based on whether they're male or female.  That definition does not include, "failure to write an article in line with an ideological script."

Cheapening the word just makes actually sexism all the harder to spot.

The dictionary definition is broader than "hatred or mistrust" and includes gender-based "devaluation";  which putting her cooking above her science arguably does.


Your evaluation presupposes that scientists are more important than cooks; check your privilege.
 
2013-04-01 03:53:03 PM
its sexist to imply that traditional female tasks are somehow of lesser worth than the traditional male domain of science?

duly noted.
 
2013-04-01 03:54:23 PM
Let's face it, most obituaries are stupid. They either deify the subject or insult them in some way (like this one did).

I think I'm gonna write my own obituary and give it to one of my siblings (or I guess, to be safe, one of my more reliable nieces/nephews) to be published in the event of my death. Or placed on my virtual gravesite or GoogleFaceSite or whatever the hell they're doing with obituaries by the time I kick the bucket.
 
2013-04-01 03:54:34 PM
it's

godmanitsomuch
 
2013-04-01 03:56:00 PM

Magorn: ProfessorOhki: Skirl Hutsenreiter: I don't think we're acting like it's an affront to feminism to be good at those things. But it is strange to emphasize them, considering obituaries for male scientists don't usually include anything about how great they were are keeping the lawn mown, or repairing the family car, or any other traditional male household roles.

It's not really strange. It's emphasized here, because for her era, she was a pioneer. The very reason that other stuff is included is to highlight that her innovations came from a then-unexpected place.

Besides, it's not unreasonable to put a humanistic angle into an bio-piece that would otherwise be completely technical. They mention that Goddard was often sick as a child, they mention Einstein's lack of care for his appearance, they mention Tesla's oddities, and I bet, when Hawking goes, they'll mention that he was in a wheelchair. This was an article about the person, not just her work.

Feynman's NYT obit (though not leading with it)...
Above all, in and out of science, Dr. Feynman was a curious character -his phrase, and the double meaning was intentional. He was never content with what he knew or what other people knew. He taught himself how to fix radios, pick locks, draw nudes, speak Portuguese, play the bongos and decipher Mayan hieroglyphics. He pursued knowledge without prejudice, studying the tracking ability of ants in his bathtub and learning enough biology to study the mutation of bacteriophages.

/If you're remembered ONLY for your work
//You must not be very an interesting person

It's called "burying the lede",  a no-no in journalism.  You start off with why the person is famous/affected our lives  enough to rate a big obit in the NY Times, then, having caught your reader's attention proceed to humanize them and tell lesser known things about them.  Leading with the Stroganoff usggests there is no more there there.


This. The writer thought he was being clever. Like most writers, he is mistaken.
 
2013-04-01 03:57:51 PM
I'm not exactly the PC police myself.... but after reading how they phrased it originally I can understand people being irritated at it. I mean, It's not exactly like the NYT just opened a new concentration camp or something, but it was pretty thoughtless. They should have originally written it like what they changed it to.

Women fought long and hard (no pun intended) for the rights to work in whatever field they liked, just like men. She was a freakin' rocket scientist too... Don't bury that lead, it's impressive.
 
2013-04-01 04:05:41 PM

Egoy3k: Skirl Hutsenreiter: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Maybe because they weren't any good at being husbands or fathers at the same time as they were good scientists or whatever their noteworthy career accomplishments were. This woman could do it - be a good mom and a good scientist. Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we say she still had a good career while having children? Its not an unremarkable thing to say, "she was a great mom, too."

But it's not "she was a good mom, too."  It's "She was a good mom. Also, she had a remarkable career."

Only in a warped mind would being a good parent to the people that you are responsible for bringing into the world and raising as good people count as a minor footnote.


I totally recognize that the career I enjoy doing and makes me decent money is not going to gain me recognition for changing the world. But when I raise kids,  will raise them to be pretty decent people, I hope. Not texting-while-driving, line-cutting, over-customized java drinking, ironic-dressing hipsters, but people you'd want to have a drink with and chat about nothing in particular. I'm fairly sure that my legacy will be not raising pretentious jackwagons with a trunk full of participation trophies and a major sense of entitlement.
 
2013-04-01 04:07:40 PM

itsdan: staplermofo: Can we praise a women without taking petty jabs at men?

I think the proper response to this is "lol fragile male ego!"


So if a man points out the blatant sexism against men in an article, he has a "fragile male ego"?  In the interests of gender equality, from this point on, any woman who points out possible sexism against women in an article must have a "lol fragile female ego".  Otherwise, a double standard exists, and we don't support sexism, do we?
 
2013-04-01 04:07:53 PM

ProfessorOhki: Your evaluation presupposes that scientists are more important than cooks; check your privilege.


Can't eat science.
 
2013-04-01 04:13:23 PM

mama2tnt: And btw: my beef stroganoff is my mother's recipe, and it is killer.

/Thought this would be a recipe thread.


Well, what's stopping you? I certainly wouldn't mind.
 
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