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(Lowell Sun)   Lowell, Mass. police union agrees to let city start tracking location of police cars in return for retroactive .25% pay increase   (lowellsun.com) divider line 50
    More: Followup, GPS, patrol cars, police superintendent, top command, superior officer, deputy superintendent  
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4156 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Apr 2013 at 10:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-01 10:38:57 AM
Mobile site does.not load.
 
2013-04-01 10:39:26 AM
I'm not sure of the entanglements, but couldn't the city just say, "We track you, or you're all fired."
 
2013-04-01 10:39:48 AM
FTA: "The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline."
 
It should be used for officer discipline if the situation warrants it.
 
2013-04-01 10:40:21 AM

Agent Smiths Laugh: I'm not sure of the entanglements, but couldn't the city just say, "We track you, or you're all fired."


Unions
 
2013-04-01 10:40:42 AM
There should have been no negotiation on this.  The GPS units would be installed in the cars which belong to the city, not under the skin of the police officers.
 
2013-04-01 10:43:39 AM
I wonder how many are going to become mysteriously disabled within the next year.
 
2013-04-01 10:45:49 AM
The .25 adds up, that's a good chunk of change every year.
 
2013-04-01 10:46:06 AM
Whereas our cops all wear a wristwatch that does GPS, heart rate, and pulse, and will auto broadcast a distress signal based on those vitals.  So if they're operating solo, ambushed, and end up lying there in a pool of their own blood, EMS and backup is automatically sent.  
 
/they were so excited to get them that the delivery truck got a plus escort
 
2013-04-01 10:46:18 AM
Cop:  Citizen, we need to be able to invade your privacy.  For your safety and ours.  Surely, you don't care if we know who you call or where you go, right?  After all, you have nothing to hide.
 
City:  Cops, we need to be able to invade your privacy.  For your safety and ours.
Cop:  OH HELL NO!
 
2013-04-01 10:46:27 AM

The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline.

 

Union President Dennis Moriarty had said the union also did not want the data from the GPS devices stored, and would only approve the use of the devices with certain stipulations.

 

What's the problem, unless you've got something to hide?

 
2013-04-01 10:46:44 AM
policelink.monster.com
 
2013-04-01 10:46:50 AM
Lowell, MA needs to keep tabs on its officers.
 
2013-04-01 10:48:31 AM

ha-ha-guy: Whereas our cops all wear a wristwatch that does GPS, heart rate, and pulse, and will auto broadcast a distress signal based on those vitals.  So if they're operating solo, ambushed, and end up lying there in a pool of their own blood, EMS and backup is automatically sent.  
 
/they were so excited to get them that the delivery truck got a plus escort


err, police escort, I need coffee if I'm typing plus by mistake.
 
/I'd blame autocorrect, but I'm not on a device that does that
 
2013-04-01 10:51:15 AM
t3.gstatic.com
 
Wheelchair cops
 
2013-04-01 10:52:30 AM

namegoeshere: Lowell, MA needs to keep tabs on its officers.


Given the crime rate in the area, this doesn't surprise me.
 
2013-04-01 10:57:04 AM

Theaetetus: The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline.
 
Union President Dennis Moriarty had said the union also did not want the data from the GPS devices stored, and would only approve the use of the devices with certain stipulations.
 
What's the problem, unless you've got something to hide?


A GPS is kind of like having an open internet connection at work. If they want to fire you for whatever reason all you have to do is check what websites an employee has visited and there is likely to be something inappropriate. The same thing with a GPS. You can look at the data and make up your own reason to fit a pattern. I really do like the wristwatch technology mentioned earlier. It provides all of the same tracking abilities, but it provides a great deal of personal protection as well.
 
2013-04-01 10:58:34 AM
If you're not doing anything wrong, there is no need to worry. Amirite officer?
 
2013-04-01 11:02:15 AM
Wait until they want the cameras on the police cars
 
2013-04-01 11:05:32 AM

redmid17: FTA: "The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline."
 
It should be used for officer discipline if the situation warrants it.


The leadership of the union should have been punched in the dick alongside with every officer that was willing to actually say out loud that they were concerned that people would be able to tell when they were not doing their job and punish them for it. Then they should have installed the GPS units and used them exclusively for officer discipline.
 
2013-04-01 11:06:07 AM

madgonad: A GPS is kind of like having an open internet connection at work. If they want to fire you for whatever reason all you have to do is check what websites an employee has visited and there is likely to be something inappropriate. The same thing with a GPS. You can look at the data and make up your own reason to fit a pattern. I really do like the wristwatch technology mentioned earlier. It provides all of the same tracking abilities, but it provides a great deal of personal protection as well.


It's also nifty in that the officer can dump his GPS log for the day to his own laptop and use it when filing a patrol report.  It shows his route for the day on the map and the software lets him link patrol reports to points just like how you mark way points on the map.  So the officers get some administrative protection in that he can explain why he did circles around a parking lot for 15 minutes or whatever other odd behaviors might be noted.  Lets him document his side of the story.
 
2013-04-01 11:07:52 AM

madgonad: Theaetetus: The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline.
 
Union President Dennis Moriarty had said the union also did not want the data from the GPS devices stored, and would only approve the use of the devices with certain stipulations.
 
What's the problem, unless you've got something to hide?

A GPS is kind of like having an open internet connection at work. If they want to fire you for whatever reason all you have to do is

check what websites an employee has visited and there is likely to be something inappropriate. The same thing with a GPS. You can look at the data and make up your own reason to fit a pattern.
 
There's a slight difference between "went to Fark at work" or "clicked on the wrong pop-up ad" and "went to the strip club in the next town over for a three hour lunch".
 
2013-04-01 11:08:55 AM

namegoeshere: Lowell, MA needs to keep tabs on its officers.


Technically they want to keep tabs on the police cars, which they happen to own.
Its not like we're asking the cops to wear a radio tracking collar.
 
I don't see why its a union issue. 
Is the state not entitled to know where all of its vehicles are?
 
2013-04-01 11:09:53 AM

earthworm2.0: Mobile site does.not load.


Nor does the regular site for me, right now.  A lot of newspaper seem to pull content from something called extras.mnginteractive dot com and that muthafarker hangs frequently for me.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-01 11:18:58 AM
mnginteractive = MediaNews Group auxiliary content site.
 
2013-04-01 11:19:28 AM
Well, the author's last name seems apt, given his inability to understand percentages...
 
2013-04-01 11:26:14 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Cop:  Citizen, we need to be able to invade your privacy.  For your safety and ours.  Surely, you don't care if we know who you call or where you go, right?  After all, you have nothing to hide.
 
City:  Cops, we need to be able to invade your privacy.  For your safety and ours.
Cop:  OH HELL NO!


This
 
2013-04-01 11:26:30 AM
Filthy pigs want bribes. At least I kow how to get out of a speeding ticket there.
 
2013-04-01 11:27:46 AM

Theaetetus: madgonad: Theaetetus: The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline.
 
Union President Dennis Moriarty had said the union also did not want the data from the GPS devices stored, and would only approve the use of the devices with certain stipulations.
 
What's the problem, unless you've got something to hide?

A GPS is kind of like having an open internet connection at work. If they want to fire you for whatever reason all you have to do is check what websites an employee has visited and there is likely to be something inappropriate. The same thing with a GPS. You can look at the data and make up your own reason to fit a pattern.
 
There's a slight difference between "went to Fark at work" or "clicked on the wrong pop-up ad" and "went to the strip club in the next town over for a three hour lunch".


Not according to my HR department.
 
2013-04-01 11:42:35 AM
A change in working conditions is a change in working conditions, and must be negotiated. 0.25%? Supposing that they make $75,000/year, they got a 9 cent per hour raise.

Seems to me that the union sought a token amount from the city, and that the real issue was the union objecting to a unilateral change in working conditions imposed by management.
 
2013-04-01 11:52:46 AM
When my local PD went for the GPS in the cars it was sold to the taxpayers as a way to see which vehicles were where so dispatch could properly assign officers to calls based on where they happened to be at the time.
 
2013-04-01 11:58:49 AM
Government employees with collective bargaining seems to go hand in hand with massive debt and deficit.
 
2013-04-01 12:00:48 PM

way south: I don't see why its a union issue.
Is the state not entitled to know where all of its vehicles are?


Allows the dept to track activity which could be a risk to the officers who like to take naps on the job or go bang hookers or girlfriends etc...
 
2013-04-01 12:03:24 PM
In related news, if you're looking to steal a cop car, Lowell, MA doesn't track theirs.
 
2013-04-01 12:05:33 PM
Why are police being paid for transparency?Rewarding someone for lifting the suspicion of nefarious activities is ridiculous.
 
2013-04-01 12:06:01 PM
I'm generally ok with unions, but I just about can't stand police unions. I get that they want to use their collective influence to make things better for the officers, but how protecting the integrity of their members doesn't factor into that equation blows my mind. It seems like every time I read a story where a police union is involved it has something to do with either getting some law breaking or job neglecting cop his job back after he was fired, or it's trying to bar municipal governments from holding officers accountable, or it's trying to prevent making cops beholden to the laws they enforce. Fark police unions. I think half the reason some of the really bad cops out there are as bad as they are is that they know the union will protect them no matter what they do.
 
2013-04-01 12:20:28 PM

Theaetetus: madgonad: Theaetetus: The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline.
 
Union President Dennis Moriarty had said the union also did not want the data from the GPS devices stored, and would only approve the use of the devices with certain stipulations.
 
What's the problem, unless you've got something to hide?

A GPS is kind of like having an open internet connection at work. If they want to fire you for whatever reason all you have to do is check what websites an employee has visited and there is likely to be something inappropriate. The same thing with a GPS. You can look at the data and make up your own reason to fit a pattern.
 
There's a slight difference between "went to Fark at work" or "clicked on the wrong pop-up ad" and "went to the strip club in the next town over for a three hour lunch".


You'd be surprised at the quality of food in some strip clubs, even the buffets can be pretty good.
 
2013-04-01 12:30:37 PM

A Shambling Mound: The leadership of the union should have been punched in the dick alongside with every officer that was willing to actually say out loud that they were concerned that people would be able to tell when they were not doing their job and punish them for it. Then they should have installed the GPS units and used them exclusively for officer discipline.


They've been spouting "Well if you're not doing anything wrong you don't have any thing to worry about" for so long they're starting to believe it themselves.
 
2013-04-01 12:33:52 PM

redmid17: Theaetetus: madgonad: Theaetetus: The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline.
 
Union President Dennis Moriarty had said the union also did not want the data from the GPS devices stored, and would only approve the use of the devices with certain stipulations.
 
What's the problem, unless you've got something to hide?

A GPS is kind of like having an open internet connection at work. If they want to fire you for whatever reason all you have to do is check what websites an employee has visited and there is likely to be something inappropriate. The same thing with a GPS. You can look at the data and make up your own reason to fit a pattern.
 
There's a slight difference between "went to Fark at work" or "clicked on the wrong pop-up ad" and "went to the strip club in the next town over for a three hour lunch".

You'd be surprised at the quality of food in some strip clubs, even the buffets can be pretty good.


Stay away from the hollandaise sauce.
 
2013-04-01 12:36:20 PM
Demanding a raise when your employer wants to verify you're doing your job means only one thing, you're not doing your job in the first place.
 
2013-04-01 12:37:07 PM

lizyrd: A change in working conditions is a change in working conditions, and must be negotiated. 0.25%? Supposing that they make $75,000/year, they got a 9 cent per hour raise.

Seems to me that the union sought a token amount from the city, and that the real issue was the union objecting to a unilateral change in working conditions imposed by management.


I would love for you to explain how this "Change in working conditions" affects their ability to do their job!  I could understand if you consider corruption as part of their job and secrecy of their whereabouts would be crucial but COME ON this is just a lame excuse.
 
2013-04-01 12:44:36 PM

PainInTheASP: redmid17: Theaetetus: madgonad: Theaetetus: The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline.
 
Union President Dennis Moriarty had said the union also did not want the data from the GPS devices stored, and would only approve the use of the devices with certain stipulations.
 
What's the problem, unless you've got something to hide?

A GPS is kind of like having an open internet connection at work. If they want to fire you for whatever reason all you have to do is check what websites an employee has visited and there is likely to be something inappropriate. The same thing with a GPS. You can look at the data and make up your own reason to fit a pattern.
 
There's a slight difference between "went to Fark at work" or "clicked on the wrong pop-up ad" and "went to the strip club in the next town over for a three hour lunch".

You'd be surprised at the quality of food in some strip clubs, even the buffets can be pretty good.

Stay away from the hollandaise sauce.


Well not I'm not hungry anymore.
 
2013-04-01 12:57:35 PM
Do they serve our the data layer to arcgis online? Cause we can then live map the locations if the cars, and do analysis of demographics that cops choose for speed traps.
/GIS nerd
 
2013-04-01 01:15:12 PM
Just get a friendly judge to sign a blank search warrant. Isn't that how it's usually done?
 
2013-04-01 01:40:24 PM

WiredMann: lizyrd: A change in working conditions is a change in working conditions, and must be negotiated. 0.25%? Supposing that they make $75,000/year, they got a 9 cent per hour raise.

Seems to me that the union sought a token amount from the city, and that the real issue was the union objecting to a unilateral change in working conditions imposed by management.

I would love for you to explain how this "Change in working conditions" affects their ability to do their job!  I could understand if you consider corruption as part of their job and secrecy of their whereabouts would be crucial but COME ON this is just a lame excuse.


I don't have to explain how it affects their ability to do their job. It doesn't even have to affect their ability to do their job. What it has to do with is bargained contract labor, and that one side cannot just go and change the conditions of the workplace. Changes have to be negotiated.

Sorry, contracts don't get unilaterally modified by one party just because it seems like a good idea to most people.
 
2013-04-01 01:56:35 PM
Now they just need to mandate badge cameras and make it a firing offense for the camera to "malfunction."
 
2013-04-01 02:02:35 PM

redmid17: FTA: "The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline."
 
It should be used for officer discipline if the situation warrants it.


Reply should have been, "Which members are concerned that such information would be cause for discipline? We want to do their cars first."
 
2013-04-01 03:35:51 PM

lizyrd: What it has to do with is bargained contract labor, and that one side cannot just go and change the conditions of the workplace. Changes have to be negotiated.

Sorry, contracts don't get unilaterally modified by one party just because it seems like a good idea to most people.


fark them.  Then their unions are too powerful.  This has zero effect on the "conditions of the workplace."  What it does do is make our noble public servants with the guns and the pensions more accountable.  If your union can "negotiate" (that's a gentle word for public employee unions, since what they really do is hold the public hostage with threats of a strike) to get a retroactive pay raise for future GPS tracking of taxpayer-funded property, your union is too powerful.
 
2013-04-01 04:31:52 PM

Fark It: lizyrd: What it has to do with is bargained contract labor, and that one side cannot just go and change the conditions of the workplace. Changes have to be negotiated.

Sorry, contracts don't get unilaterally modified by one party just because it seems like a good idea to most people.

fark them.  Then their unions are too powerful.  This has zero effect on the "conditions of the workplace."  What it does do is make our noble public servants with the guns and the pensions more accountable.  If your union can "negotiate" (that's a gentle word for public employee unions, since what they really do is hold the public hostage with threats of a strike) to get a retroactive pay raise for future GPS tracking of taxpayer-funded property, your union is too powerful.


Buzz. Like most public safety departments, my contract has a No-strike/No-lockout clause. A strike would be against the contract, and the city would have legal recourse, including termination of striking employees.

The union doesn't get to decide which provisions in the contract are worth fighting for. It's a lot like trademark infringement in that the trademark holder's control is weakened if they ignore potential infringement. The contract is weakened every time a violation is ignored by either side. It creates an argument that similar violations are allowed by past practice. The fact that they settled this issue for less than $200 per year per man shows that they weren't interested in going to the mat over it.
 
2013-04-01 08:43:48 PM
Disband all police unions immediately.

Unions protect the worst of the worst; some of the arguments that I've seen police unions put up in defense of obviously wrong illegal and immoral behavior by 'police' are so disgustingly laughable I could puke.
 
2013-04-01 08:56:51 PM

A Shambling Mound: redmid17: FTA: "The leadership of the Patrolmen's Union, which represents 170 members, had previously expressed concerns that the information the GPS devices provide would be used for officer discipline."

It should be used for officer discipline if the situation warrants it.

The leadership of the union should have been punched in the dick alongside with every officer that was willing to actually say out loud that they were concerned that people would be able to tell when they were not doing their job and punish them for it. Then they should have installed the GPS units and used them exclusively for officer discipline.


"IF YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR, CITIZEN!!"
 
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