The heritage is hate.

Welcome to the 1900s North Carolina. You still have a colossal amount of catching up to do.

They took the flag down from the capitol dome some time ago, but hung it inside the legislature chamber. Claiming it was there "just like in 1863" is just more mealy-mouthed excusing. The only reason they're taking it down now is because of the media attention focusing on them lately; this is an easy way for the legislators to say "see we're changing our behavior" without really doing anything.

Duke lost, that fact just dawned on me. I was wondering why there have been two greens on NC-related topics.

The "Confederate flag" isn't really the confederate flag but a naval ensign. Clips and magazines are different. Bullets and cartridges are different. It was Flavor-Aid not Kool-Aid that killed all those people. There were 80, not 79, episodes of ST:TOS, because you have to include the pilot....
 
It's not that we don't know the difference between these things.
 
It's that we just don't farking care. Obsessive nerdery is always annoying.

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The "Confederate flag" isn't really the confederate flag but a naval ensign. Clips and magazines are different. Bullets and cartridges are different. It was Flavor-Aid not Kool-Aid that killed all those people. There were 80, not 79, episodes of ST:TOS, because you have to include the pilot....
 
It's not that we don't know the difference between these things.
 
It's that we just don't farking care. Obsessive nerdery is always annoying.

TIL Flavor-Aid is a thing and still exists (Link).

Hey, whats wrong with Mississippi. We got more freedom per square mile than anywhere else.

As people have pointed out above (which I can't quote due to someone spilling something somewhere in the Intratubes), that is not the Confederate battle flag.
 
The only thing people are trying to preserve in that flag is institutionalized racism of the worst kind. That flag was created to insult and humiliate people who had already been insulted and humiliated for hundreds of years in this country and who were organizing to regain rights they had been denied for those hundreds of years. . That flag is  the last graphical gasp of people who no longer could ride free on the backs of black people whom they could rape or castrate and hang from trees or exploit in innumerable ways for generations past.
 
Enjoy your false tradition. You're a useful idiot for the worst people this country ever made if you feel anything but revulsion on seeing that flag.
 
/BTW, to claim it is a Confederate flag is to insult the historical record of the Confederacy and the Southern people. So not only are you insulting people who were held down by the Confederacy, you are insulting those who held up the Confederacy.

 
funny..

 
Why is the South SO PROUD of their mistakes?
This country has been divided since it's inception... the Confederates should have been dealt with the same way the United States did with the Native Population... You don't see them flying a 150 year old flag in defiance.

Funny, I thought this was the confederate flag:
 
 

Heritage - of slavery
States' Rights - to own slaves

Somacandra: It most closely resembles a naval ensign flown for two years but has little relevance re: the actual Confederacy

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The "Confederate flag" isn't really the confederate flag but a naval ensign.

Actually, no, it's not. It's very similar to the naval ensign, but not the same. A little history lesson, courtesy of elchip:



If you looked at this picture and the first phrase that came to mind was something along the lines of "The Confederate Flag," you would be wrong. This was never the Flag of the Confederate States of America. Furthermore, this flag is not nicknamed Stars and Bars. It was neither the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, nor was it the Confederate Navy Jack (although it's close to both).

The Confederacy actually went through three official flags during its short life. The first such flag looked like this:



When the Confederate Congress got around to the business of creating a flag for themselves, public opinion was in the favor of modeling it after the American flag. This flag was what came out of their efforts.

The first version of the flag had seven stars, representing the seven states that had seceded by the time of the flag's creation: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas. The remaining stars were added with the secession of Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina, and the pseudo-secession of Missouri and Kentucky. (I say "pseudo-secession" because they each had two governments, one claiming to represent their state in the Confederacy and one claiming to represent it in the Union.)

This, by the way, is the flag that is properly referred to as Stars and Bars.

Now, during the First Battle of Bull Run (that's the First Battle of Manassas for you southerners), the Stars and Bars caused a bit of confusion thanks to its resemblance to the Stars and Stripes.

One of the Confederate commanders at the battle, Brigadier General Pierre Gustave Toutant Beauregard expressed his frustration to his personal aide, a man by the name of William Porcher Miles.

When not hanging around with Beauregard, Miles was a member of the Confederate Congress. In fact, he had been on the committee that approved the Stars and Bars flag. He wasn't a fan of the Stars and Bars for the same reason that most people at the time were for it: It was similar to the American flag.

He told Beauregard that when they were debating the matter of the flag, he had designed an alternative flag of his own, which was rejected:



Beauregard liked it so much, that he petitioned the Congress to make it the official flag of the Confederacy.

Congress said no.

Beauregard sought a compromise: He suggested that the Confederacy fly the Stars and Bars as its official flag, but adopt Miles' flag as their Battle Flag -- something that could be flown on the battlefield without generating confusion.

Congress didn't say anything.

Well, they didn't say anything because he didn't ask them: They were adjourned at the time. He took up the issue with the War Department, and they approved of his idea.

Later, the Confederate Navy decided to use a modified version of the flag as their Jack -- that's the flag flown on the front of a ship, usually for ceremonial reasons.



The popularity of the Battle Flag convinced the government of the Confederacy to eventually incorporate it when they redesigned the official flag, nicknamed the Stainless Banner:



Over time, a clamor grew about the fact that the flag might be confused for a white flag of surrender when the wind was just right. So, it was slightly modified into what is called the Blood-Stained Banner:



The concern about surrender is rather ironic, because the Confederacy surrendered about a month after adopting the Blood-Stained Banner.

The flag that most people think of as the Confederate Flag was never flown by the Confederacy at all -- it was invented by southerners in the 20th century and, depending on who you ask, symbolizes anything ranging from white power to southern pride.

But whatever you think of the flag, one thing is certain: It was never flown by the Confederate States of America. It uses the colors of the Battle Flag and the shape of the Navy Jack, but it's not exactly either one.

To conclude, this symbolizes treason:


And this symbolizes racism:

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The "Confederate flag" isn't really the confederate flag but a naval ensign. Clips and magazines are different. Bullets and cartridges are different. It was Flavor-Aid not Kool-Aid that killed all those people. There were 80, not 79, episodes of ST:TOS, because you have to include the pilot....

It's not that we don't know the difference between these things.

It's that we just don't farking care. Obsessive nerdery is always annoying.

No one ever read the fine print in the Star Trek: Terms of Service

pueblonative: Funny, I thought this was the confederate flag:

No, I'm pretty sure that's the French flag

Heritage.  Not hate.

NC native here. My neighbors are all up in arms about this issue, and the butthurt over this issue is epic, idiotic, and endlessly fascinating. I love my home, because it can be so beautiful, but our state tree should be the facepalm.

/Welcome to North Carolina.
//Please set your watches back 200 years.

Ctrl-Alt-Del: pueblonative: Funny, I thought this was the confederate flag:

No, I'm pretty sure that's the French flag

French have surrendered a lot less percentage wise than the rednecks.

NostroZ:Why is the South SO PROUD of their mistakes?

I dunno, why is the north so proud of dropping the ball with reconstruction and depriving half the country of representation for half a century?  Or waging a war that wasn't so much against slavery as in favor of debt slavery to begin with?

Like most civil wars, ours... didn't really have any heroes on either side, just villains that has slightly more of a point.

//The answer in either case is "because most people had ancestors that died in the conflict", it's sort of like how Irish separatists or the British occupiers randomly get glorified depending what neighborhood you grew up in in Ireland.

Not saying you're a racist, but if you don't see the philosophy of the Confedaracy and the KKK as being wrong- you might have a problem.

Haters don't need a lot of reason to hate.  They pride themselves on HATE.
The Confederate Flag (as above) represents an ignorant viewpoint that would be laughable if not for the violence that it spreads -to it's own nation and the world at large.

Jim_Callahan: NostroZ:Why is the South SO PROUD of their mistakes?

I dunno, why is the north so proud of dropping the ball with reconstruction and depriving half the country of representation for half a century?  Or waging a war that wasn't so much against slavery as in favor of debt slavery to begin with?


I don't recall a northerner ever expressing pride in the first. The second is just utter nonsense.

Jim_Callahan: NostroZ:Why is the South SO PROUD of their mistakes?

I dunno, why is the north so proud of dropping the ball with reconstruction and depriving half the country of representation for half a century?  Or waging a war that wasn't so much against slavery as in favor of debt slavery to begin with?

Like most civil wars, ours... didn't really have any heroes on either side, just villains that has slightly more of a point.

Hmmm... I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're from the South.

Two questions:
Who was depriving half the country of representation?  (Northern v. Southern factions)
What do you mean by the war was fought in favor of debt slavery?  (Did real slavery have no part in the war?)

Please do me the honor of shedding some light on these odd notions you've cast.

Jim_Callahan: NostroZ:Why is the South SO PROUD of their mistakes?

I dunno, why is the north so proud of dropping the ball with reconstruction and depriving half the country of representation for half a century?

Because we won.

Jim_Callahan: NostroZ:Why is the South SO PROUD of their mistakes?

I dunno, why is the north so proud of dropping the ball with reconstruction and depriving half the country of representation for half a century?  Or waging a war that wasn't so much against slavery as in favor of debt slavery to begin with?

Like most civil wars, ours... didn't really have any heroes on either side, just villains that has slightly more of a point.

//The answer in either case is "because most people had ancestors that died in the conflict", it's sort of like how Irish separatists or the British occupiers randomly get glorified depending what neighborhood you grew up in in Ireland.

Ironic that you bring that up considering Jim Crow laws in the South.

Jim_Callahan: I dunno, why is the north so proud of dropping the ball with reconstruction and depriving half the country of representation for half a century?


So when the Redeemer governments in the Southern states took over after Hayes pulled out the troops (and granted, that was a crappy compromise to gain power), it wasn't the fault of those Southerners for enacting Jim Crow laws, it was the fault of Northerners for not stopping them sooner?  That's an interesting notion. . .

My best friend's grandfather was in the German army in WWII.

So he should fly this flag with pride...right?

rufus-t-firefly: My best friend's grandfather was in the German army in WWII.

So he should fly this flag with pride...right?

[i221.photobucket.com image 496x362]

Why not? Some of our military fly Nazi stuff...



/now to be fair, those guys were punished. and rightfully so
/never served, easy to criticize, but an SS flag is probably out of line for anybody

You know what's funny?  The fact that a large percentage of Libertarians are also Confederate sympathizers.


I mean this is a group of people who CONSTANTLY tell everyone who'll listen how much they LOVE freedom and yet bend over backwards to defend the a group of States that wanted to keep other human beings in bondage.


"I love freedom so much, I'll fight for your right to deny someone else their freedom."

Marshal805: You know what's funny?  The fact that a large percentage of Libertarians are also Confederate sympathizers.


I mean this is a group of people who CONSTANTLY tell everyone who'll listen how much they LOVE freedom and yet bend over backwards to defend the a group of States that wanted to keep other human beings in bondage.


"I love freedom so much, I'll fight for your right to deny someone else their freedom."

When you fetishize property rights and profit to the extent many Libertarians do, it's the natural outcome.

since when is the loser of the civil war allowed to fly their flag?

Ctrl-Alt-Del: And this symbolizes racism:

TheShavingofOccam123: Why not? Some of our military fly Nazi stuff...

Are we the baddies?

jigger: TheShavingofOccam123: Why not? Some of our military fly Nazi stuff...

Are we the baddies?

At times.

jigger: Ctrl-Alt-Del: And this symbolizes racism:

[msnbcmedia.msn.com image 500x498]

Yeah, i bet them Duke boys and Boss Hog LOVED them some colored folk.

TheShavingofOccam123: rufus-t-firefly: My best friend's grandfather was in the German army in WWII.

So he should fly this flag with pride...right?

[i221.photobucket.com image 496x362]

Why not? Some of our military fly Nazi stuff...

[i.i.com.com image 420x237]

/now to be fair, those guys were punished. and rightfully so
/never served, easy to criticize, but an SS flag is probably out of line for anybody


Some people are ignorant of history and think the ss logo looks cool. Not that it should excuse them. I have seen a company logo that was basically the ss logo, the guy who was wearing their uniform had no idea.

PDid: TheShavingofOccam123: rufus-t-firefly: My best friend's grandfather was in the German army in WWII.

So he should fly this flag with pride...right?

[i221.photobucket.com image 496x362]

Why not? Some of our military fly Nazi stuff...

[i.i.com.com image 420x237]

/now to be fair, those guys were punished. and rightfully so
/never served, easy to criticize, but an SS flag is probably out of line for anybody


Some people are ignorant of history and think the ss logo looks cool. Not that it should excuse them. I have seen a company logo that was basically the ss logo, the guy who was wearing their uniform had no idea.


The old "some people" argument. Not to be that guy, but I honestly think that you just made that up. Just now. Because you saw the SS logo in that pic and thought it looked cool.