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(CNN)   Why the f*** do I even have to write this column for a major news organization to talk about something that shouldn't even remotely be a factor in sports   (cnn.com) divider line 38
    More: Interesting, NFL, gay athletes, sports leagues, promiscuities  
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6693 clicks; posted to Sports » on 01 Apr 2013 at 7:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-01 01:18:46 AM
4 votes:

Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?


Honestly, it is more people getting to know someone who is gay. The more people that come out, the more likely someone who is on the fence has a friend/neighbor/coworked/kid's friend who is gay and goes "wait, that person hasn't tried to destroy me".

Ellen helped a lot because she was someone who came into the homes of housewives and showed them not to be afraid, you also have Modern Family as a top show. Right now it could be the history side of things playing into it. People who have been the 50/50 but slightly con don't want to get lumped in with the wrong group as the winds change.

/just shooting ideas, nothing to really back it
//anyone have data over the last few years about trends
2013-04-01 03:31:37 PM
3 votes:

Super Chronic: 85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.

Because in a heteronormative environment, sexual preferences are announced to the world on a daily basis.  At some point, there will inevitably be a comment on the practice field along the lines of "hey, check out that cheerleader's ass!"  The player making that comment is, as you put it, "telling everyone about their lifestyle" (ignoring for now your apparent belief that heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice).  It would be a better world if a teammate could simply say "no thanks, I prefer dudes," and for everyone else just to be able to shrug it off.  That's all anybody wants.


... in fact, the point doesn't need to be made using crass banter.  I announce my sexual preference to the world every time I say "hey guys, I'd like you all to meet my wife."  I would just like to live in a world where men are equally comfortable saying "hey guys, I'd like you all to meet my husband."
2013-04-01 03:24:01 PM
3 votes:

85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.


Because in a heteronormative environment, sexual preferences are announced to the world on a daily basis.  At some point, there will inevitably be a comment on the practice field along the lines of "hey, check out that cheerleader's ass!"  The player making that comment is, as you put it, "telling everyone about their lifestyle" (ignoring for now your apparent belief that heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice).  It would be a better world if a teammate could simply say "no thanks, I prefer dudes," and for everyone else just to be able to shrug it off.  That's all anybody wants.
2013-04-01 02:58:03 PM
3 votes:

85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.


Well, except some people DO care about other people's orientation, even though it is, as you implied, nobody else's business. And since some people care so much that they're willing to fight to legally discriminate against gay people, I just feel like the rest of us should say something about that. Otherwise, those who discriminate will no doubt choose to believe that they are in the right.  And the more people who "come out" as non-discriminatory towards gays, the easier it is for others to "come out" and then we find out who the real minority is.

And I think that has a lot to do with the changing of the tide lately. So it's not really about YOUR sexuality. It's about ALL OF US not giving a fark about it. We are the apathy this generation needs.
2013-04-01 11:52:16 AM
3 votes:
Vlad, I'm reminded of a media kerfuffle from a few years back that involved the Dixie Chicks. Some idiots claimed that because stations refused to play their music after they protested the Iraq war, they were being censored.  And people rightfully said, no, it's just a reaction to their speech and words have consequences. Similarly, it's not that people are baselessly being called bigots because they are anti-gay, it's that by exercising their free speech, they are letting everyone else know they are bigots and then acting butthurt when the public recognizes this and reacts accordingly.  Maybe it's a stretch to apply it to you specifically, but there is no silent majority suffering for fear of being wrongly called a bigot.  There's just a lot of bigots that don't like being called bigots in public.
2013-04-01 02:31:43 AM
3 votes:
I love Chris Kluwe, he's phenomenal. Smart, well spoke, liberal, and geeky. He even wrote a story for the Penny Arcade/ Pvp comic "The Trenches."
2013-04-02 05:17:17 PM
2 votes:

Kome: Basically, a large number of straight men are uncomfortable with the idea of being treated the way they treat women.


Funny how that works, isn't it?
2013-04-02 05:11:44 PM
2 votes:

Di Atribe: knbwhite: Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays

So you think we should make homosexuals live in secrecy because straight men would be "uncomfortable" knowing that a man may be ogling him in a sexual manner.


Basically, a large number of straight men are uncomfortable with the idea of being treated the way they treat women.
2013-04-01 05:01:49 PM
2 votes:

Elandriel: ITT someone makes excuses for haters.

Of fun note: anti-gay commenters richly deserve all the scorn heaped upon them by the internet, because they are deliberately staking a claim that they don't believe their fellow man deserves to be viewed and treated equally under the law because their fellow man loves another man, and for no other reason.

Maybe they don't like being ridiculed and treated like the scum of the earth, but then maybe they should just shut the fark up and quit trying to maintain the status quo of separate but equal.  If their big girl panties are all up in a bunch because someone was mean to them on the internet, then they should try not being mean to other people on the internet.


That is particularly true given that the scorn they're getting is nowhere near as vicious as what they're dishing out. I mean, the head of the Southern Baptist Convention just blamed gays for Kim Jong Un threatening to nuke everybody. I don't know of anything that comes close to topping that level of rhetoric from the equality side and that's pretty tame compared to a lot of anti-gay rhetoric. If they can't take it they shouldn't dish it out.
2013-04-01 04:34:24 PM
2 votes:
ITT someone makes excuses for haters.

Of fun note: anti-gay commenters richly deserve all the scorn heaped upon them by the internet, because they are deliberately staking a claim that they don't believe their fellow man deserves to be viewed and treated equally under the law because their fellow man loves another man, and for no other reason.

Maybe they don't like being ridiculed and treated like the scum of the earth, but then maybe they should just shut the fark up and quit trying to maintain the status quo of separate but equal.  If their big girl panties are all up in a bunch because someone was mean to them on the internet, then they should try not being mean to other people on the internet.
2013-04-01 03:59:41 PM
2 votes:

Super Chronic: ... in fact, the point doesn't need to be made using crass banter. I announce my sexual preference to the world every time I say "hey guys, I'd like you all to meet my wife."


Yup. It's inherently disingenuous to play the "they don't have to flaunt it" card when everyone is exposed to a myriad of either aggressive or passive displays of hetero-ness (for lack of a better word) during the course of a single day. It happens in daily conversations with coworkers, it happens out in public places, and it's used in the barrage of advertisements we see. If someone ignores the teenage couple making out in the park and a billboard for Axe body spray using a female model but takes special notice of two guys holding hands walking down the street, that's their own issue.
2013-04-01 03:29:21 PM
2 votes:

Lumbar Puncture: 85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.

That's pretty much the summary of the article.


Too many people still say that gay folks are "announcing their sexual orientation to the world" or "flaunting their lifestyle" or whatever... when all they're doing is displaying a loved one's picture, sharing a brief kiss, holding hands, occasionally mentioning their partner in conversation, etc. Things that are utterly unremarkable for hetero couples.

We can't just "stop focusing on [sexuality/race/gender]" when meaningful inequalities still exist for them.
2013-04-01 02:57:18 PM
2 votes:

vladimpaler: When I was born, homosexuality was still considered a mental disease according to all scientific sources and a sin by most religions.  Now in the last 48 years  (or so), homosexuality came to be considered so normal that to question it for any reason means you are a hyper religious, stupid bigot who doesn't deserve to live.  That's a pretty big swing for people to accept, but those who don't instantly accept it have been treated very badly on the net.

Sorry if I don't hate those people enough for the rest of the Farkers.


Nobody said people who don't accept it don't deserve to live. That's something that bigots pull out to pretend that they're the real victims.

And yeah, things have changed over the years, but when people are as exceptionally cruel as most of the anti-gay people I know are, all the while hiding behind religion to excuse their meanness and cruelty, then yeah, I am going to call them hyper-religious, stupid bigots.
2013-04-01 02:49:00 PM
2 votes:

vladimpaler: When I was born, homosexuality was still considered a mental disease according to all scientific sources and a sin by most religions. Now in the last 48 years (or so), homosexuality came to be considered so normal that to question it for any reason means you are a hyper religious, stupid bigot who doesn't deserve to live. That's a pretty big swing for people to accept, but those who don't instantly accept it have been treated very badly on the net.

Sorry if I don't hate those people enough for the rest of the Farkers


Hey, I know people like that as well and I love some of them because they're friends or family.  I'm disappointed they feel that way but a lifetime of being told something means they're not going to change their minds anytime soon.  My point to you was, if those people choose to express their opinion that they dislike another person's sexuality on the internet, then they're opening themselves to criticism from random strangers on the internet.

If they feel that strongly about who other people date to voice an opinion, than they need to accept that people, or friends of people, who have spent the last 48 years being told it was abnormal, a mental condition or a sin might also have strong feelings as well and are willing to express that right back to them.  Of course it helps not to be an asshole about it, but some folks feel pretty strongly.

Pretty much goes for anything, gay or not.  An Alaskan representative used the term wetback in a speech and was jumped on about it.  His explanation was that they didn't use the term on his farm as a kid in the way people do now.  Aside from that being bullshiat, does that mean people shouldn't be offended by such references and not call the guy out on it?

So you don't need to apologize to anyone for not hating on folks who think like that.  We probably all know people who aren't comfortable with the idea of homosexuality.  But if you express your opinion in a public, expect the public to express it right back and don't whine if they're maybe a little tired of being told to just accept certain attitudes.
2013-04-01 01:07:30 PM
2 votes:

vladimpaler: Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?
 
 
Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt.  The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).


Well sure, but aside from the amount of vitriol expressed, isn't that how it should be?  A person doesn't have to be supportive, and I respect that there are religious or different reasons some people some can't or wont accept homosexuality, but if they speak up against a person because of who they date, then why as a society shouldn't we vilify such individuals?

People can hold their own own opinions and speak freely about them, that doesn't mean people can't weigh those opinions and reply with their own.
2013-04-01 12:20:37 PM
2 votes:
vladimpaler:  I responded to you because you asked a question.  Any other questions?

Yes.  What is your personal view on whether a gay person should be accepted as equal?  I mean this in two senses: (1) personal acceptance by teammates/co-workers, and (2) equal protection against discrimination claims under the law.  You seem very eager to remind everyone about what you haven't said on this subject, so it would probably help your cause to put something on the record as to what you have said.
2013-04-01 11:16:52 AM
2 votes:

vladimpaler: Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt. The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).

 
You're more than welcome to instead feel remorse and pity for those who still shout against homosexuality instead of those whom, after centuries of being vilified and mistreated because of their very being, are finally becoming accepted. I mean, to each their own, but in my book, basic human rights and decency trumps "I find something icky and it should be stopped".
2013-04-01 09:08:58 AM
2 votes:

vladimpaler: Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt. The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).


Those poor, oppressed bigots.
2013-04-01 07:27:48 AM
2 votes:

TheManofPA: Honestly, it is more people getting to know someone who is gay. The more people that come out, the more likely someone who is on the fence has a friend/neighbor/coworked/kid's friend who is gay and goes "wait, that person hasn't tried to destroy me".


This. It reminds me of Vitaly Klitchko (sp?) talking about his first experience in America. To paraphrase: 'I realized they're not rat-faced people that will steal all of your money. That there are good ones and bad ones, just like everywhere else; no reason to be more fearful or distrusting of them, but certainly reason to be distrusting of the people that spread lies about them.'
2013-04-04 07:50:24 AM
1 votes:

knbwhite: Di Atribe: Sweet Jesus can we just put curtains on the showers if it's that big of a deal? Is that really the only thing holding us back?

You didn't answer the question.  So are you saying that gays should have their feelings considered but not straight males?


Their (straight males) feelings are being considered, and they're rightfully being considered ignorant.

The opinion that gays should be kept out of sports because having to shower with them would make others feel odd/uncomfortable or that it would somehow be a risk to their health and safety is downright silly or a dodge to try and clumsily hide homophobia.   It's the same as saying you wouldn't shower with people of the same sex but different race/ethnicity/religion because it makes you uncomfortable and you can't say for sure they wouldn't suddenly "do something" to you.  It's an ignorant opinion not based on any facts, and is being largely dismissed as not  convincing  for being factually and logically weak, not because it's coming from heterosexuals.

"Straight" opinion is being considered, and if that's the best they can come up with, it doesn't deserve much.
2013-04-02 10:04:47 PM
1 votes:

knbwhite: Di Atribe: knbwhite: Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays

So you think we should make homosexuals live in secrecy because straight men would be "uncomfortable" knowing that a man may be ogling him in a sexual manner.

No I don't think that.  I wish everyone was out and we could judge them on the content of their character.  I just request everyone who says we should be tolerant and considerate of others points of view and feelings realize it's a two-way street.  If others are allowed to tell me I shouldn't have any problem showering with gays then I get to tell Kluwe's mom she shouldn't have any problem showering with the team.


If she's a member of the team?  Sure, absolutely.  Hell, I go to the gym and change and shower around complete strangers with no concern over their sexual identity.  So yeah, if Kluwe's mother was somehow able to be a member of the Vikings and wanted to shower after the game with her fellow co-workers, no problem.

If Kluwe believes that his teammates wouldn't be able to help themselves from molesting his mother if she was a teammate and showered with them, then he must not think well of his teammates.  I trust that when my wife is in the the gym locker room a random lesbian isn't going to suddenly maul her either.
2013-04-02 09:13:13 PM
1 votes:
The showering thing doesn't make a ton of sense to me either, kids are generally taught that boys and girls are different and use separate bathrooms, etc. since a young age. Homosexuals don't always understand their feelings or whatever before, during, after puberty, and they would've been showering/etc. with same-sex folks their whole lives. They aren't taught to see differently-preferenced kids as "other" (unless their parents are teaching them gay=evil).

If our society was less prudish and unisex bathrooms etc. were the norm from birth, this might be different. If males and females showered together regularly this might be different. Hard to say without having kids raised in that way, people talk about rape culture and I guess the "pointed" questions about Kluwe's wife/mom up there are intended to suggest that they would get ogled/raped? But that is if they turned a switch tomorrow and everyone raised a certain way was suddenly in a new environment (ie unisex showers) vs. someone raised from birth with that as typical.

If the football team had all showered with both genders their whole life, why would Kluwe care if his mom was there? They weren't, so it isn't really a sensible comparison IMO.
2013-04-02 04:21:52 PM
1 votes:

knbwhite: Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays


So you think we should make homosexuals live in secrecy because straight men would be "uncomfortable" knowing that a man may be ogling him in a sexual manner.
2013-04-02 02:18:53 PM
1 votes:

Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?


Because most people don't give a fark?
2013-04-02 12:43:50 AM
1 votes:

knbwhite: I like Kluwe, and respect his opinion.  In the article he says teammates shouldn't mind showering with gays.  He would really gain my respect if his mom, sister, wife/girlfriend, etc hops in the shower with the team too.


Ummm, that's really kind of a creepy idea.
2013-04-02 12:03:50 AM
1 votes:
I like Kluwe, and respect his opinion.  In the article he says teammates shouldn't mind showering with gays.  He would really gain my respect if his mom, sister, wife/girlfriend, etc hops in the shower with the team too.
2013-04-01 10:02:38 PM
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

The lessening of ignorance.  Many people used to believe that they didn't know any gay people.  Now it turns out they're everywhere.
 
It's a lot easier to hate on a faceless, nameless entity, than real life people.


I think your spot on. When the overwhelming majority of homosexuals were in the closet few heterosexual people "knew" any homosexuals. As they started to come out of the closet more and more people began to realize that they did know homosexuals among their family, friends, and coworkers. Many people then realized that these were just regular people, no better or worse than anyone else.

It is hard to hate someone you've known for years. You tend see them as real world people and not just one dimensional caricatures.
2013-04-01 07:34:11 PM
1 votes:

vladimpaler: Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?
 
 
Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt.  The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).


That true. Many of us have decided not to suffer bigots anymore. Sorry.
2013-04-01 06:21:58 PM
1 votes:

Yes please: GreatGlavinsGhost: Yes please: Frederick: Interesting the comments.

It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in supporting gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

I'm not sure attitudes have shifted as dramatically in such a short period (although they certainly have somewhat). I think it's probably more likely that the "con" people have learned to stop commenting because everyone they piped up they were drowned out in waves of "you stupid ignorant piece of shiat recheck homophobe.  You're probably secretly gay yourself." I guess it's a kind of progress though.

Or, maybe all the bigots are posting on Stormfront and freeperville?

Maybe.  I'll bet there are also secret websites set up for people who didn't like Saving Private Ryan or Inception.  Driving out dissenting votes to their echo chambers to preserve your own echo chamber doesn't do a lot for honest dialogue.


Yes, lets all take a moment to feel sorry for the bigots out there. We all feel bad that they're too afraid of the consequences of free speech. Bigots should only spew vitriol, it's simply too much when they are on the receiving end of it.
2013-04-01 04:42:51 PM
1 votes:

Yes please: Frederick: Interesting the comments.

It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

I'm not sure attitudes have shifted as dramatically in such a short period (although they certainly have somewhat). I think it's probably more likely that the "con" people have learned to stop commenting because everyone they piped up they were drowned out in waves of "you stupid ignorant piece of shiat recheck homophobe.  You're probably secretly gay yourself." I guess it's a kind of progress though.


Or, maybe all the bigots are posting on Stormfront and freeperville?
2013-04-01 03:08:12 PM
1 votes:

Di Atribe: 85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.

Well, except some people DO care about other people's orientation, even though it is, as you implied, nobody else's business. And since some people care so much that they're willing to fight to legally discriminate against gay people, I just feel like the rest of us should say something about that. Otherwise, those who discriminate will no doubt choose to believe that they are in the right.  And the more people who "come out" as non-discriminatory towards gays, the easier it is for others to "come out" and then we find out who the real minority is.

And I think that has a lot to do with the changing of the tide lately. So it's not really about YOUR sexuality. It's about ALL OF US not giving a fark about it. We are the apathy this generation needs.


True that. I think a lot of the younger generations, say age 60 and under, just don't give a flying fark in the wind anymore. Not all of them, by any means, but enough. The youngest generations truly don't care, save for a few bullies that will hopefully grow out of it. I've raised my kids to be accepting, and that's all I can really do.

Meanwhile I have my own battle that can't even be fought until this one is won, so I'm hoping it's won quickly.
2013-04-01 02:35:35 PM
1 votes:

Bunny Deville: mikaloyd: Shh ! Dont even joke about gays or question anything related to any gay person or you will get swiftly screamed at by the militant soccer mom's bigot identification and elimnation squad.

Not surp[risingly these are almost never people who self identify as LBG or T or queer. Ive found that most of them actually take small ribbings at least as well as heteros and are much better and patient with me if I ask ignorant questions in threads like this. Most actually want to just farking want to mingle with folks and be simple pieces in the mosaic of society same as everybody else. Most who can take a dick in the ass can take a joke, so long as it isn personally hurtful.

Very few people who youd want to have a beer and watch a game with want to be the focal points of political pundits or ESPN's nutcases or the Westboro Baptist Chuch or FARK's poo flinging asshat monkey brigade no matter their sexual orientation. But the people who like yelling and screaming at eachother for attention are not about to let go of THE BIG GAY RIGHTS STORIES and allow simple normal gay folks to become simply folks. Not without a huge dramatic push and howls for immediately outing on gay in each and every high visibility high emotion job category. For the good of the person who is peer pressured into the limelight natch.

Strange thing is that over the last few decades weve finally made enormous strides towards considering gay people as just "people" instead of Evil Filthy People" or worse "victims" I mean I understand that y'all probably think you are helpful fighters n this war youve declared. But really you only win a civil war by either fighting until everyone is so much worse for the experiecne that they suddenly go sane and quit fighting despite media egging you forward or you use diplomacy tact and patience to build and teach and heal. This has has been done wherever progress is seen and well before the feudal  screaming fighters arrive to "help"

My word, mika, you and I shoul ...


The problem comes about when these two worlds intersect, and we get garbage on the Sports Tab like that News Busters article last week that got bent out of shape because someone joked about white people dancing at a Heat loss.  That shiat has no place on the Sports Tab, and neither does barneyfife bringing the Politics Tab partisan poo-slinging.

Yes, athletes have slowly become more and more active on this particular issue over the last decade.  We saw it with the NHL players and the You Can Play program.  Athletes are generally part of the younger generation, and in the last few years you've seen kids that grew up in the 90s and 2000s reach the pro levels, so now that's translating into awareness campaigns much like several southern California players in the early- and mid-90s made stopping gang violence an issue.

Lumbar Puncture: Well sure, but aside from the amount of vitriol expressed, isn't that how it should be? A person doesn't have to be supportive, and I respect that there are religious or different reasons some people some can't or wont accept homosexuality, but if they speak up against a person because of who they date, then why as a society shouldn't we vilify such individuals?


You always have to be careful of backlash, but this is what has allowed us to come as far as we have on issues of racism in the US.  We decided to relentlessly teach kids that racism was wrong, period, end of story.  And if someone said something contrarian enough, society forced them to accept the consequences of their statements.  And now people have either the good sense or the societal awareness to know that if you say something like Al Campanis or Howard Cosell, you'll justly see a backlash.

Look at Tim Hardaway; what he said was morally repugnant, but over the last few years he's realized he screwed up, and he's trying to make amends.  That's the benefit of a society putting their foot down and saying, "if you insist on saying inappropriate things, you're only going to make your life more difficult."
2013-04-01 12:44:21 PM
1 votes:
Shh ! Dont even joke about gays or question anything related to any gay person or you will get swiftly screamed at by the militant soccer mom's bigot identification and elimnation squad.

Not surp[risingly these are almost never people who self identify as LBG or T or queer. Ive found that most of them actually take small ribbings at least as well as heteros and are much better and patient with me if I ask ignorant questions in threads like this. Most actually want to just farking want to mingle with folks and be simple pieces in the mosaic of society same as everybody else. Most who can take a dick in the ass can take a joke, so long as it isn personally hurtful.

Very few people who youd want to have a beer and watch a game with want to be the focal points of political pundits or ESPN's nutcases or the Westboro Baptist Chuch or FARK's poo flinging asshat monkey brigade no matter their sexual orientation. But the people who like yelling and screaming at eachother for attention are not about to let go of THE BIG GAY RIGHTS STORIES and allow simple normal gay folks to become simply folks. Not without a huge dramatic push and howls for immediately outing on gay in each and every high visibility high emotion job category. For the good of the person who is peer pressured into the limelight natch.

Strange thing is that over the last few decades weve finally made enormous strides towards considering gay people as just "people" instead of Evil Filthy People" or worse "victims" I mean I understand that y'all probably think you are helpful fighters n this war youve declared. But really you only win a civil war by either fighting until everyone is so much worse for the experiecne that they suddenly go sane and quit fighting despite media egging you forward or you use diplomacy tact and patience to build and teach and heal. This has has been done wherever progress is seen and well before the feudal  screaming fighters arrive to "help"
2013-04-01 10:14:00 AM
1 votes:

vladimpaler: INeedAName: vladimpaler: Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?
 
 
Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt.  The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).
 
But it's still cool to make fun of black people, jews, 'tards, heebs, wetbacks, etc. Right? It's such a pain when human decency rears it's ugly head.

 
Did I say that?  Did I give my opinion anywhere?  A question was asked, I provided an answer.  Your ridiculous, over- the-top response to my answer is a prime example of the attacks I mentioned, so thanks for that.
 
Yeah, but anyway, what's it like to lack basic human decency?  Does it bother you people that just a few years ago your kind were in the majority, and now you can only find likeminded people at cross burnings, seal clubbings, and Young Republican gatherings?
2013-04-01 09:55:21 AM
1 votes:

INeedAName: vladimpaler: Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?
 
 
Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt.  The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).
 
But it's still cool to make fun of black people, jews, 'tards, heebs, wetbacks, etc. Right? It's such a pain when human decency rears it's ugly head.


Did I say that?  Did I give my opinion anywhere?  A question was asked, I provided an answer.  Your ridiculous, over- the-top response to my answer is a prime example of the attacks I mentioned, so thanks for that.
2013-04-01 09:15:40 AM
1 votes:

kronicfeld: vladimpaler: Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt. The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).

Those poor, oppressed bigots.


Yes, exactly like that.
2013-04-01 09:12:55 AM
1 votes:

Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?


I'm not sure attitudes have shifted as dramatically in such a short period (although they certainly have somewhat). I think it's probably more likely that the "con" people have learned to stop commenting because everyone they piped up they were drowned out in waves of "you stupid ignorant piece of shiat recheck homophobe.  You're probably secretly gay yourself." I guess it's a kind of progress though.
2013-04-01 09:02:09 AM
1 votes:

Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

 
 
Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt.  The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).
 
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