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(CNN)   Why the f*** do I even have to write this column for a major news organization to talk about something that shouldn't even remotely be a factor in sports   (cnn.com) divider line 98
    More: Interesting, NFL, gay athletes, sports leagues, promiscuities  
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6693 clicks; posted to Sports » on 01 Apr 2013 at 7:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-01 02:57:18 PM

vladimpaler: When I was born, homosexuality was still considered a mental disease according to all scientific sources and a sin by most religions.  Now in the last 48 years  (or so), homosexuality came to be considered so normal that to question it for any reason means you are a hyper religious, stupid bigot who doesn't deserve to live.  That's a pretty big swing for people to accept, but those who don't instantly accept it have been treated very badly on the net.

Sorry if I don't hate those people enough for the rest of the Farkers.


Nobody said people who don't accept it don't deserve to live. That's something that bigots pull out to pretend that they're the real victims.

And yeah, things have changed over the years, but when people are as exceptionally cruel as most of the anti-gay people I know are, all the while hiding behind religion to excuse their meanness and cruelty, then yeah, I am going to call them hyper-religious, stupid bigots.
 
2013-04-01 02:58:03 PM

85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.


Well, except some people DO care about other people's orientation, even though it is, as you implied, nobody else's business. And since some people care so much that they're willing to fight to legally discriminate against gay people, I just feel like the rest of us should say something about that. Otherwise, those who discriminate will no doubt choose to believe that they are in the right.  And the more people who "come out" as non-discriminatory towards gays, the easier it is for others to "come out" and then we find out who the real minority is.

And I think that has a lot to do with the changing of the tide lately. So it's not really about YOUR sexuality. It's about ALL OF US not giving a fark about it. We are the apathy this generation needs.
 
2013-04-01 03:08:12 PM

Di Atribe: 85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.

Well, except some people DO care about other people's orientation, even though it is, as you implied, nobody else's business. And since some people care so much that they're willing to fight to legally discriminate against gay people, I just feel like the rest of us should say something about that. Otherwise, those who discriminate will no doubt choose to believe that they are in the right.  And the more people who "come out" as non-discriminatory towards gays, the easier it is for others to "come out" and then we find out who the real minority is.

And I think that has a lot to do with the changing of the tide lately. So it's not really about YOUR sexuality. It's about ALL OF US not giving a fark about it. We are the apathy this generation needs.


True that. I think a lot of the younger generations, say age 60 and under, just don't give a flying fark in the wind anymore. Not all of them, by any means, but enough. The youngest generations truly don't care, save for a few bullies that will hopefully grow out of it. I've raised my kids to be accepting, and that's all I can really do.

Meanwhile I have my own battle that can't even be fought until this one is won, so I'm hoping it's won quickly.
 
2013-04-01 03:23:12 PM
I will never go out of my way to endorse a pointless endeavour. Regardless of personal ethos supporting ether sid e would align my beliefs with extremists.Sacrificing my credibility and pandering to 'look at me nows' is a step backward for any community.True acceptance prevails when one side stops stoking the fire.
 
2013-04-01 03:24:01 PM

85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.


Because in a heteronormative environment, sexual preferences are announced to the world on a daily basis.  At some point, there will inevitably be a comment on the practice field along the lines of "hey, check out that cheerleader's ass!"  The player making that comment is, as you put it, "telling everyone about their lifestyle" (ignoring for now your apparent belief that heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice).  It would be a better world if a teammate could simply say "no thanks, I prefer dudes," and for everyone else just to be able to shrug it off.  That's all anybody wants.
 
2013-04-01 03:29:21 PM

Lumbar Puncture: 85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.

That's pretty much the summary of the article.


Too many people still say that gay folks are "announcing their sexual orientation to the world" or "flaunting their lifestyle" or whatever... when all they're doing is displaying a loved one's picture, sharing a brief kiss, holding hands, occasionally mentioning their partner in conversation, etc. Things that are utterly unremarkable for hetero couples.

We can't just "stop focusing on [sexuality/race/gender]" when meaningful inequalities still exist for them.
 
2013-04-01 03:31:37 PM

Super Chronic: 85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.

Because in a heteronormative environment, sexual preferences are announced to the world on a daily basis.  At some point, there will inevitably be a comment on the practice field along the lines of "hey, check out that cheerleader's ass!"  The player making that comment is, as you put it, "telling everyone about their lifestyle" (ignoring for now your apparent belief that heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice).  It would be a better world if a teammate could simply say "no thanks, I prefer dudes," and for everyone else just to be able to shrug it off.  That's all anybody wants.


... in fact, the point doesn't need to be made using crass banter.  I announce my sexual preference to the world every time I say "hey guys, I'd like you all to meet my wife."  I would just like to live in a world where men are equally comfortable saying "hey guys, I'd like you all to meet my husband."
 
2013-04-01 03:59:41 PM

Super Chronic: ... in fact, the point doesn't need to be made using crass banter. I announce my sexual preference to the world every time I say "hey guys, I'd like you all to meet my wife."


Yup. It's inherently disingenuous to play the "they don't have to flaunt it" card when everyone is exposed to a myriad of either aggressive or passive displays of hetero-ness (for lack of a better word) during the course of a single day. It happens in daily conversations with coworkers, it happens out in public places, and it's used in the barrage of advertisements we see. If someone ignores the teenage couple making out in the park and a billboard for Axe body spray using a female model but takes special notice of two guys holding hands walking down the street, that's their own issue.
 
2013-04-01 04:13:35 PM

Super Chronic: Super Chronic: 85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.

Because in a heteronormative environment, sexual preferences are announced to the world on a daily basis.  At some point, there will inevitably be a comment on the practice field along the lines of "hey, check out that cheerleader's ass!"  The player making that comment is, as you put it, "telling everyone about their lifestyle" (ignoring for now your apparent belief that heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice).  It would be a better world if a teammate could simply say "no thanks, I prefer dudes," and for everyone else just to be able to shrug it off.  That's all anybody wants.

... in fact, the point doesn't need to be made using crass banter.  I announce my sexual preference to the world every time I say "hey guys, I'd like you all to meet my wife."  I would just like to live in a world where men are equally comfortable saying "hey guys, I'd like you all to meet my husband."


Good luck with that. I cant even talk about wanting to fark really tall really fat broads without queers and heteros both coming uncoonted and elbowing eachother out of the way to be first in line to tell me that my preferences are unacceptable.
 
2013-04-01 04:20:00 PM
 wonder how Yiffers manage to hide their sexuality from their parents?
 
2013-04-01 04:24:06 PM

mikaloyd: wonder how Yiffers manage to hide their sexuality from their parents?


Not that I've thought especially long about this, but, I would think if you parents are wondering why you have a full-size bunny costume in your bedroom...I dunno...lie and say that you have a part time job on the other side of town for some retail store as a mascot? I could see my Dad just going "oh, okay, whatever" and not ever thinking twice or following up on it. Granted, I could probably tell him "oh, I feel a special kinship with rabbits, and I wear this during sexual intercourse" and he'd still probably go "oh, okay, whatever".
 
2013-04-01 04:26:11 PM

mikaloyd: Good luck with that. I cant even talk about wanting to fark really tall really fat broads without queers and heteros both coming uncoonted and elbowing eachother out of the way to be first in line to tell me that my preferences are unacceptable.


That's because you call them broads; the dames hate being called that.
 
2013-04-01 04:27:36 PM

mikaloyd: wonder how Yiffers manage to hide their sexuality from their parents?


I wonder how many awkward moments were created in the Milwaukee and Pittsburgh areas when Bob Uecker started talking about the furry convention in his hotel.
 
2013-04-01 04:34:24 PM
ITT someone makes excuses for haters.

Of fun note: anti-gay commenters richly deserve all the scorn heaped upon them by the internet, because they are deliberately staking a claim that they don't believe their fellow man deserves to be viewed and treated equally under the law because their fellow man loves another man, and for no other reason.

Maybe they don't like being ridiculed and treated like the scum of the earth, but then maybe they should just shut the fark up and quit trying to maintain the status quo of separate but equal.  If their big girl panties are all up in a bunch because someone was mean to them on the internet, then they should try not being mean to other people on the internet.
 
2013-04-01 04:42:51 PM

Yes please: Frederick: Interesting the comments.

It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

I'm not sure attitudes have shifted as dramatically in such a short period (although they certainly have somewhat). I think it's probably more likely that the "con" people have learned to stop commenting because everyone they piped up they were drowned out in waves of "you stupid ignorant piece of shiat recheck homophobe.  You're probably secretly gay yourself." I guess it's a kind of progress though.


Or, maybe all the bigots are posting on Stormfront and freeperville?
 
2013-04-01 04:52:17 PM

UNC_Samurai: mikaloyd: Good luck with that. I cant even talk about wanting to fark really tall really fat broads without queers and heteros both coming uncoonted and elbowing eachother out of the way to be first in line to tell me that my preferences are unacceptable.

That's because you call them broads; the dames hate being called that.


Hey! Excuse me, you misogynists, but the proper term is "skirts!"

I bet you did "femi" nazi that one coming.
 
2013-04-01 05:01:49 PM

Elandriel: ITT someone makes excuses for haters.

Of fun note: anti-gay commenters richly deserve all the scorn heaped upon them by the internet, because they are deliberately staking a claim that they don't believe their fellow man deserves to be viewed and treated equally under the law because their fellow man loves another man, and for no other reason.

Maybe they don't like being ridiculed and treated like the scum of the earth, but then maybe they should just shut the fark up and quit trying to maintain the status quo of separate but equal.  If their big girl panties are all up in a bunch because someone was mean to them on the internet, then they should try not being mean to other people on the internet.


That is particularly true given that the scorn they're getting is nowhere near as vicious as what they're dishing out. I mean, the head of the Southern Baptist Convention just blamed gays for Kim Jong Un threatening to nuke everybody. I don't know of anything that comes close to topping that level of rhetoric from the equality side and that's pretty tame compared to a lot of anti-gay rhetoric. If they can't take it they shouldn't dish it out.
 
2013-04-01 05:12:42 PM

GreatGlavinsGhost: Yes please: Frederick: Interesting the comments.

It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in supporting gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

I'm not sure attitudes have shifted as dramatically in such a short period (although they certainly have somewhat). I think it's probably more likely that the "con" people have learned to stop commenting because everyone they piped up they were drowned out in waves of "you stupid ignorant piece of shiat recheck homophobe.  You're probably secretly gay yourself." I guess it's a kind of progress though.

Or, maybe all the bigots are posting on Stormfront and freeperville?


Maybe.  I'll bet there are also secret websites set up for people who didn't like Saving Private Ryan or Inception.  Driving out dissenting votes to their echo chambers to preserve your own echo chamber doesn't do a lot for honest dialogue.
 
2013-04-01 06:21:58 PM

Yes please: GreatGlavinsGhost: Yes please: Frederick: Interesting the comments.

It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in supporting gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

I'm not sure attitudes have shifted as dramatically in such a short period (although they certainly have somewhat). I think it's probably more likely that the "con" people have learned to stop commenting because everyone they piped up they were drowned out in waves of "you stupid ignorant piece of shiat recheck homophobe.  You're probably secretly gay yourself." I guess it's a kind of progress though.

Or, maybe all the bigots are posting on Stormfront and freeperville?

Maybe.  I'll bet there are also secret websites set up for people who didn't like Saving Private Ryan or Inception.  Driving out dissenting votes to their echo chambers to preserve your own echo chamber doesn't do a lot for honest dialogue.


Yes, lets all take a moment to feel sorry for the bigots out there. We all feel bad that they're too afraid of the consequences of free speech. Bigots should only spew vitriol, it's simply too much when they are on the receiving end of it.
 
2013-04-01 06:56:34 PM

domdare: Yes please: GreatGlavinsGhost: Yes please: Frederick: Interesting the comments.

It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in supporting gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

I'm not sure attitudes have shifted as dramatically in such a short period (although they certainly have somewhat). I think it's probably more likely that the "con" people have learned to stop commenting because everyone they piped up they were drowned out in waves of "you stupid ignorant piece of shiat recheck homophobe.  You're probably secretly gay yourself." I guess it's a kind of progress though.

Or, maybe all the bigots are posting on Stormfront and freeperville?

Maybe.  I'll bet there are also secret websites set up for people who didn't like Saving Private Ryan or Inception.  Driving out dissenting votes to their echo chambers to preserve your own echo chamber doesn't do a lot for honest dialogue.

Yes, lets all take a moment to feel sorry for the bigots out there. We all feel bad that they're too afraid of the consequences of free speech. Bigots should only spew vitriol, it's simply too much when they are on the receiving end of it.


Who said anything about feeling sorry for anyone?
 
2013-04-01 07:06:23 PM
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 D RFZrzg62Zj0

Seriously, I am not going to say I support homosexuality, however if a player helps my team then why would I care? My lack of support is due to religious beliefs, but if man perceives homosexuality as a sin then my sins are as equally damning. You live your life, I will live mine, in the end I believe that I will be judged by a higher power.
 
2013-04-01 07:34:11 PM

vladimpaler: Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?
 
 
Because now if you say anything that does not support gays one hundred percent, you are insulted, vilified and treated with the utmost contempt.  The attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with or approve of homosexuality/homosexuals has driven them into the closet (to coin a phrase).


That true. Many of us have decided not to suffer bigots anymore. Sorry.
 
2013-04-01 08:14:17 PM

Di Atribe: UNC_Samurai: mikaloyd: Good luck with that. I cant even talk about wanting to fark really tall really fat broads without queers and heteros both coming uncoonted and elbowing eachother out of the way to be first in line to tell me that my preferences are unacceptable.

That's because you call them broads; the dames hate being called that.

Hey! Excuse me, you misogynists, but the proper term is "skirts!"

I bet you did "femi" nazi that one coming.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-01 08:43:35 PM

85blue: I have never announced my sexual orientation to the world.Why are people going around telling everyone about their lifestyle?People don't care and have their own lives to live.Get over yourselves.


You sound like one of them furrys.
 
2013-04-01 10:02:38 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?

The lessening of ignorance.  Many people used to believe that they didn't know any gay people.  Now it turns out they're everywhere.
 
It's a lot easier to hate on a faceless, nameless entity, than real life people.


I think your spot on. When the overwhelming majority of homosexuals were in the closet few heterosexual people "knew" any homosexuals. As they started to come out of the closet more and more people began to realize that they did know homosexuals among their family, friends, and coworkers. Many people then realized that these were just regular people, no better or worse than anyone else.

It is hard to hate someone you've known for years. You tend see them as real world people and not just one dimensional caricatures.
 
2013-04-01 10:14:29 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-02 12:03:50 AM
I like Kluwe, and respect his opinion.  In the article he says teammates shouldn't mind showering with gays.  He would really gain my respect if his mom, sister, wife/girlfriend, etc hops in the shower with the team too.
 
2013-04-02 12:43:50 AM

knbwhite: I like Kluwe, and respect his opinion.  In the article he says teammates shouldn't mind showering with gays.  He would really gain my respect if his mom, sister, wife/girlfriend, etc hops in the shower with the team too.


Ummm, that's really kind of a creepy idea.
 
2013-04-02 01:49:13 AM
Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays
 
2013-04-02 11:51:24 AM
Instead of looking at an openly gay player as a distraction, ask yourselves -- how much better would that player play if he didn't have to worry about hiding a core part of who he is? How many more sacks would he have, free of that pressure? How many more receptions? How many more rushing yards?

I love me some Chris Kluwe, and I know what point he's trying to make, but a small part of me desperately wants him to have been very aware of how else the phrase "How many more sacks would he have" could be interpreted when he wrote that. It doesn't seem like it, but I want it to be true.
 
2013-04-02 01:35:40 PM

knbwhite: Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays


Insert pithy "rape culture" comment.
Unfortunately, our fairly prudish heterosexual culture has promoted the idea that people of the opposite gender should only be naked together if they are having sex for so long, that I don't think people in general could deal with that.  Nudists and homosexuals are two groups that could.
 
2013-04-02 02:18:53 PM

Frederick: Interesting the comments.
 
It used to be (IMO) the comments on gay issues were almost 50/50 pro/con.  But now it is decidedly more pro (as in support for gays).  Assuming this to be true; what accounts for the change?


Because most people don't give a fark?
 
2013-04-02 04:21:52 PM

knbwhite: Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays


So you think we should make homosexuals live in secrecy because straight men would be "uncomfortable" knowing that a man may be ogling him in a sexual manner.
 
2013-04-02 05:11:44 PM

Di Atribe: knbwhite: Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays

So you think we should make homosexuals live in secrecy because straight men would be "uncomfortable" knowing that a man may be ogling him in a sexual manner.


Basically, a large number of straight men are uncomfortable with the idea of being treated the way they treat women.
 
2013-04-02 05:17:17 PM

Kome: Basically, a large number of straight men are uncomfortable with the idea of being treated the way they treat women.


Funny how that works, isn't it?
 
2013-04-02 09:13:13 PM
The showering thing doesn't make a ton of sense to me either, kids are generally taught that boys and girls are different and use separate bathrooms, etc. since a young age. Homosexuals don't always understand their feelings or whatever before, during, after puberty, and they would've been showering/etc. with same-sex folks their whole lives. They aren't taught to see differently-preferenced kids as "other" (unless their parents are teaching them gay=evil).

If our society was less prudish and unisex bathrooms etc. were the norm from birth, this might be different. If males and females showered together regularly this might be different. Hard to say without having kids raised in that way, people talk about rape culture and I guess the "pointed" questions about Kluwe's wife/mom up there are intended to suggest that they would get ogled/raped? But that is if they turned a switch tomorrow and everyone raised a certain way was suddenly in a new environment (ie unisex showers) vs. someone raised from birth with that as typical.

If the football team had all showered with both genders their whole life, why would Kluwe care if his mom was there? They weren't, so it isn't really a sensible comparison IMO.
 
2013-04-02 09:35:49 PM

Di Atribe: knbwhite: Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays

So you think we should make homosexuals live in secrecy because straight men would be "uncomfortable" knowing that a man may be ogling him in a sexual manner.


No I don't think that.  I wish everyone was out and we could judge them on the content of their character.  I just request everyone who says we should be tolerant and considerate of others points of view and feelings realize it's a two-way street.  If others are allowed to tell me I shouldn't have any problem showering with gays then I get to tell Kluwe's mom she shouldn't have any problem showering with the team.
 
2013-04-02 10:04:47 PM

knbwhite: Di Atribe: knbwhite: Half serious.  Everyone says straights should have no problem showering with the gays, say, in the military or sports locker rooms.  Would he ridicule his mom if she was hesitant to?  After all, these highly paid young athletes wouldn't be interested in her since she is out of their target dating pool.  That's the argument my mom gave me when we were discussing gays in the military back in the Clinton term.

/realize have have unknowingly showered with gays

So you think we should make homosexuals live in secrecy because straight men would be "uncomfortable" knowing that a man may be ogling him in a sexual manner.

No I don't think that.  I wish everyone was out and we could judge them on the content of their character.  I just request everyone who says we should be tolerant and considerate of others points of view and feelings realize it's a two-way street.  If others are allowed to tell me I shouldn't have any problem showering with gays then I get to tell Kluwe's mom she shouldn't have any problem showering with the team.


If she's a member of the team?  Sure, absolutely.  Hell, I go to the gym and change and shower around complete strangers with no concern over their sexual identity.  So yeah, if Kluwe's mother was somehow able to be a member of the Vikings and wanted to shower after the game with her fellow co-workers, no problem.

If Kluwe believes that his teammates wouldn't be able to help themselves from molesting his mother if she was a teammate and showered with them, then he must not think well of his teammates.  I trust that when my wife is in the the gym locker room a random lesbian isn't going to suddenly maul her either.
 
2013-04-03 01:00:41 AM
My example of the shower is not about how Chris would feel about it, or if his mom is a member of the team so is therefore eligible to shower there.

To put it another way, suppose a woman(gay or straight) has a gym where she works out and showers afterward.  One day while she is getting ready to shower an announcement is made that the men's shower is broken.  At that same time a basketball game ends, and all the guys inform her they are heading to the womens shower.   IF she decides she would rather not be joined in the shower by a group of hetero men, would some of you criticize her for being such a prude or bigot?
 
2013-04-03 10:59:53 AM

knbwhite: My example of the shower is not about how Chris would feel about it, or if his mom is a member of the team so is therefore eligible to shower there.

To put it another way, suppose a woman(gay or straight) has a gym where she works out and showers afterward.  One day while she is getting ready to shower an announcement is made that the men's shower is broken.  At that same time a basketball game ends, and all the guys inform her they are heading to the womens shower.   IF she decides she would rather not be joined in the shower by a group of hetero men, would some of you criticize her for being such a prude or bigot?


But that's a question that doesn't related to this situation at all.

A sports team in compromised of people you know, who are your co-workers and who are overseen by a professional organization.  Your example is being put into a room full of random strangers who have no connection to the gym itself.  Would I think her a prude or a bigot in that situation?  Nope.  If a football player chose not to shower after a game because he was worried a gay football player might check him out, well he should report any uncomfortable sexual advances to HR, but I wouldn't think he was a bigot for showering later at home.  I'd think he'd probably smell though.

Do I think that a gay football player should hide or be ashamed of their sexual preference because another player might not be comfortable sharing a locker room with them?  Hell no.
 
2013-04-03 03:23:12 PM
Sweet Jesus can we just put curtains on the showers if it's that big of a deal? Is that really the only thing holding us back?
 
2013-04-03 08:43:44 PM

Di Atribe: Sweet Jesus can we just put curtains on the showers if it's that big of a deal? Is that really the only thing holding us back?


You didn't answer the question.  So are you saying that gays should have their feelings considered but not straight males?
 
2013-04-03 08:55:25 PM

knbwhite: Di Atribe: Sweet Jesus can we just put curtains on the showers if it's that big of a deal? Is that really the only thing holding us back?

You didn't answer the question.  So are you saying that gays should have their feelings considered but not straight males?


Do you think a person has to hide who they are because another teammate might be be uncomfortable with their personal life?

Like I said, your question isn't analogous to the situation.  Let gays be gays and let straights be straights.  If they can't be comfortable with who another person on their team chooses to date, then their priorities are farked.
 
2013-04-04 07:50:24 AM

knbwhite: Di Atribe: Sweet Jesus can we just put curtains on the showers if it's that big of a deal? Is that really the only thing holding us back?

You didn't answer the question.  So are you saying that gays should have their feelings considered but not straight males?


Their (straight males) feelings are being considered, and they're rightfully being considered ignorant.

The opinion that gays should be kept out of sports because having to shower with them would make others feel odd/uncomfortable or that it would somehow be a risk to their health and safety is downright silly or a dodge to try and clumsily hide homophobia.   It's the same as saying you wouldn't shower with people of the same sex but different race/ethnicity/religion because it makes you uncomfortable and you can't say for sure they wouldn't suddenly "do something" to you.  It's an ignorant opinion not based on any facts, and is being largely dismissed as not  convincing  for being factually and logically weak, not because it's coming from heterosexuals.

"Straight" opinion is being considered, and if that's the best they can come up with, it doesn't deserve much.
 
2013-04-04 02:48:14 PM

knbwhite: Di Atribe: Sweet Jesus can we just put curtains on the showers if it's that big of a deal? Is that really the only thing holding us back?

You didn't answer the question.  So are you saying that gays should have their feelings considered but not straight males?


Do you really feel discriminated against?
 
2013-04-04 04:14:34 PM
Ok, looks like I have Lumbar, LTR, and Di who nominate themselves, their mothers, sisters and daughters to share a shower with me.  No bigots or prudes allowed. I don't think anyone would try to "do something" to someone else, and I hope the rest of the party doesn't either.

I do not feel discriminated against per se, but I am getting the idea that opposing points of view are not being seriously considered because they are "wrong".   This goes for other sensitive topics too, such as abortion, gun control, etc. Surely the respect for the human rights of gays will get better before those issues settles down.

I'll tell you a little story I have mentioned on Fark before that gives an example of why I post in these threads.  My sister was visiting from the SF bay area a while back, and a commercial came on television about a dating service called Christian Mingle.  My sister gave it an eyeroll and a sarcastic chuckle.  I guess to her anyone who would participate in that deserves ridicule because they are just "wrong".
 
2013-04-04 10:45:54 PM

knbwhite: Ok, looks like I have Lumbar, LTR, and Di who nominate themselves, their mothers, sisters and daughters to share a shower with me.  No bigots or prudes allowed. I don't think anyone would try to "do something" to someone else, and I hope the rest of the party doesn't either.


Haha no. You are missing the point very much. You see, myself & my female family members that I love have not chosen to play a professional sport with open showers. But if I did, I'd probably either request a shower curtain or take my shower at a different time.

Seriously, your "objection" to this is that you're weirded that a gay dude might see your winky?

Also, any woman who's ever had a child has no sense of modesty anyway. Once you've had half the hospital's staff forearm up your hooha, you stop caring about who sees what.
 
2013-04-05 01:26:53 AM
Di, I think you are missing my point.  I think your comment about pro players chosing to play a sport with those type facilities is a deflection.  I'll try one more way.  After I had chosen to be in the military and later deployed for the first Gulf War, my mom and I had  a discussion about gays in the military.  She told me I should have no problem with gays because they aren't interested in my straight self anyway.  In response, I gave her the shower scenario as I have mentioned above.  I didn't have a choice about shower curtains and little flexibility on showering later.  I got a similar answer as yours.

It still seems you are saying that players that don't want to shower with gays have a problem, but you would not hop in yourself.  That's the kind of thinking I have a problem with.

Anyway, I suppose ball teams could afford a retrofit of their locker rooms to accomodate the future. As I said above, I expect the leagues will eventually be more accepting of gays, and I believe that is a positive.

Finally, I think this conversation has run its course, I do appreciate your point of view.
 
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