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(RedState)   If the levers of State are to be wielded to enforce the commands of Scripture, such as not allowing gay marriage, then why the hell are we opposing Obamacare - which is the most Christ-like thing the government has ever done?   (redstate.com) divider line 522
    More: Interesting, obamacare, No Regrets, no compromise, protest vote, eternal life, same-sex marriages, Bob Dole, Biden  
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4072 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Mar 2013 at 6:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-31 09:01:04 PM  

skilbride: I'm pretty sure if I moved to middle america I wouldn't find a church that I could attend.


If you consider Iowa Middle America, I think you'd do fine in my church, even though we're Presbyterian and not Episcopalian; ya heathen :P
 
2013-03-31 09:01:13 PM  

sugardave: Galileo's Daughter: sugardave: skilbride: sugardave: You are laboring under the (INCREDIBLY incorrect) assumption that I want to talk to Christians. On the contrary, I want to deride them and point out their idiocy at every opportunity. Go to church, worship your drity, but STFU about it and let rational people run things. You can still feel smug that we'll all be burning in Hell, but I feel it is an unfair burden on me that I can't beat the everlasting snot out of you for threatening me.

Where exactly did I threaten you?

Christians threaten every non-believer with eternal damnation EVERY DAY. Are you trying to tell me otherwise?

Overgeneralization.  I'm a Christian, and I don't do that.  Neither do the 100+ members of my congregation.  Try again.

That's what you say, but, as I already pointed out, Christians have no problems lying if it promotes the faith. Your protestations mean nothing.


and you have knowledge of all christians?  oh wait, you don't.  your argument, if it can be called that, fails.  you are relying only on logical fallacies to make your point, and it doesn't work.
 
2013-03-31 09:01:21 PM  
Anyways, I will be away from the keyboard for an hour while I watch Walking Dead.

Here's hoping they put zombie Jesus in there somewhere... you can't have the Walking Dead finale on Easter without that little Easter egg :)
 
2013-03-31 09:01:50 PM  

Smelly McUgly: Monkeyhouse Zendo: skilbride: And God did not come down from the heavens and pen the bible himself.

And that, my dear, is the best argument that there is no such being.

I think the best argument that there is no God is that God has not revealed him/her/itself to all of us in an unequivocally obvious manner.

Now, as a believer in God, this doesn't really matter, but I use my rational, observational side to vote and learn more about the world and my irrational (and that isn't a negative) inner self to pontificate on the nature of God.

As long as you're a good dude, Monkeyhouse, I think that's all that matters.


I cannot agree.

You see, there is no proof of the nonexistence of a thing.  To attempt to prove that a thing does not exist IS irrational.

"If the Higgs Boson does exist, why haven't we seen it before!?"  You see how dumb that is now, but it seemed to make sense 10 years ago.  Thank God scientists are more rational than that.
 
2013-03-31 09:03:51 PM  

skilbride: And just to let you guys know, I'm pretty sure the majority of my real life friends except my ex-boyfriend know nothing about my faith - it's just been in the past week that I kinda felt the need to jump in because the only people who are talking are the wrong people.  (So, you're my first test group!)


FYI I'm not in the "all Christians bad camp" and I just wanted to say that if what you are saying is true then you're one of the good Christians.
 
2013-03-31 09:05:00 PM  
CanisNoir 2013-03-31 08:58:42 PM

Kittypie070: I don't think Canis Noir is aware that the Old Jewish religious law ORDERED people to give some sort of tithe for whatever religious purpose.

It wasn't left up to "well, maybe I will contribute if I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel like it."


No, I'm aware of that, it was expected that people would give a portion of their bounty to those with less.

If it was EXPECTED, it still does not pass the Kittypie Sniff Test of Free Will.
 
2013-03-31 09:05:04 PM  

Smelly McUgly: I'm not shocked. Black folks are starting to become more prosperous, and in some ways, it's easier to be Christian when you're poor. It's a lot harder to give your wealth away when, historically, your family has never had it. Considering this, I see how this dude sold prosperity gospel to a bunch of newly-prosperous people.

/Going on the assumption that black preacher = majority black congregation, of course


I worked for a while in Lithonia, and I started a TFD thread a few years back about my interview at a 4-star restaurant where my white ass was hired, in the exact words of the manager, to "promote some ethnic diversity in the front of the house".

After quitting there, I went to the biggest nightclub in Lithonia (fire capacity was 800+) where I was the lead server, a part-time bartender, and the token white guy. On the plus side, my equal opportunity ass got laid A LOT.

So to answer your question, Lithonia is where the rich black people live in Atlanta. And a lot of not-so-rich ones, too.
 
2013-03-31 09:06:05 PM  
Damn it, I still fail at Italicize. Sh*t.
 
2013-03-31 09:06:33 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: But consider how simple it would be for a divine being to ensure that it's message would never be lost or corrupted. Why would a divine being leave something as monumentally important as the rules for eternal life / damnation up the generations of transcription by largely illiterate monks?


Don't question God. He has His reasons.
 
2013-03-31 09:09:34 PM  
ox45tallboy:

So to answer your question, Lithonia is where the rich black people live in Atlanta. And a lot of not-so-rich ones, too.

So, quite a few newly-rich black people and a bunch of others who will be rich someday. I'm glad to see my assumption worked out.

/And congratulations on gettin' DAT ASS, too. :)
 
2013-03-31 09:10:38 PM  

skilbride: Well, here's the thing - you have to separate a belief in God from organized religion. Do you believe in God? I struggled with that for a long time - and once I came to the conclusion that yes, I did, I was lucky enough to find a church that agreed with my other moral views in life.


I have trouble with this. It seems like your saying that I should reject the parts of Christianity I don't like, but still place some kind of divine faith in the parts that I do. Which basically kind of puts me on the level of making my own moral judgements separate from what most people believe God has already said (via the Bible) and plants me squarely right where I am now.

I don't think this would be fair to myself, or to the whole idea of Bible-based Christianity.
 
2013-03-31 09:10:55 PM  

rohar: Smelly McUgly: Monkeyhouse Zendo: skilbride: And God did not come down from the heavens and pen the bible himself.

And that, my dear, is the best argument that there is no such being.

I think the best argument that there is no God is that God has not revealed him/her/itself to all of us in an unequivocally obvious manner.

Now, as a believer in God, this doesn't really matter, but I use my rational, observational side to vote and learn more about the world and my irrational (and that isn't a negative) inner self to pontificate on the nature of God.

As long as you're a good dude, Monkeyhouse, I think that's all that matters.

I cannot agree.

You see, there is no proof of the nonexistence of a thing.  To attempt to prove that a thing does not exist IS irrational.

"If the Higgs Boson does exist, why haven't we seen it before!?"  You see how dumb that is now, but it seemed to make sense 10 years ago.  Thank God scientists are more rational than that.


And yet, the Christian deity has less evidence for his existence than the luminiferous aether and more against it. So I suppose we can say that he is as likely to exist as the luminiferous aether, or the flat earth or the Hippocratic humors.
 
2013-03-31 09:13:59 PM  
I sometimes think that The Bible may be the greatest cold reader in history. One person can say that you should help others any way you can, be tolerant and forgiving because it is in The Bible. Another person can condemn gay marriage, equality, and the care of those less fortunate because it is in The Bible.

I'll admit I'm not the most religious person, but if I were to take something from The Good Book, it would be the former.
 
2013-03-31 09:15:49 PM  

CanisNoir: In Jesus' time, the secular authority was Rome, and he never once told people they should give their money to Rome so that Rome could feed the poor.


Ummm... actually, Rome at this time had a history of providing food for the poor from tax money.

A decade later, when Julius Caesar came to power, he found 320,000 persons on grain relief. He succeeded in having the relief rolls cut to 150,000 by applying a means test. After his death the rolls climbed once again to 320,000. Augustus once more introduced a means test and reduced the number to 200,000.

Remember that Augustus ruled during the time of Jesus' childhood, until 14 AD.
 
2013-03-31 09:18:23 PM  
I really don't want to model my government on a bronze age guy who probably didn't really exist, anyway.
 
2013-03-31 09:19:23 PM  

ox45tallboy: I have trouble with this. It seems like your saying that I should reject the parts of Christianity I don't like, but still place some kind of divine faith in the parts that I do. Which basically kind of puts me on the level of making my own moral judgements separate from what most people believe God has already said (via the Bible) and plants me squarely right where I am now.

I don't think this would be fair to myself, or to the whole idea of Bible-based Christianity.


No - I don't think it's like that at all.  It's more like this:  we have brains, and we're expected to use them.  The teachings of Christ have some very strong emphasis that can't be denied... do not judge others, love your neighbor, love God... the rest, the things that there are one or two mentions to, or the Old Testament God?  You have to use history to supplement the bible.

Kind of like the constitution. :)   (Sorry this is less thought out... I'm watching Walking Dead...)
 
2013-03-31 09:19:39 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: rohar: Smelly McUgly: Monkeyhouse Zendo: skilbride: And God did not come down from the heavens and pen the bible himself.

And that, my dear, is the best argument that there is no such being.

I think the best argument that there is no God is that God has not revealed him/her/itself to all of us in an unequivocally obvious manner.

Now, as a believer in God, this doesn't really matter, but I use my rational, observational side to vote and learn more about the world and my irrational (and that isn't a negative) inner self to pontificate on the nature of God.

As long as you're a good dude, Monkeyhouse, I think that's all that matters.

I cannot agree.

You see, there is no proof of the nonexistence of a thing.  To attempt to prove that a thing does not exist IS irrational.

"If the Higgs Boson does exist, why haven't we seen it before!?"  You see how dumb that is now, but it seemed to make sense 10 years ago.  Thank God scientists are more rational than that.

And yet, the Christian deity has less evidence for his existence than the luminiferous aether and more against it. So I suppose we can say that he is as likely to exist as the luminiferous aether, or the flat earth or the Hippocratic humors.


And you have a similar grasp of logic that a fence post exhibits.

Anyone.  Anyone who would suggest that the nonexistence of a thing can be proven has absolutely no history in algebra.  Logic obviously defies you.  I'm not suggesting you're wrong, only that you should negotiate this issue from another angle.  Maybe one you have some mastery of.
 
2013-03-31 09:20:57 PM  

quatchi: My fear is that people who are utterly convinced in there being justice in the afterlife content themselves with that belief and spend less time striving for real social justice on earth in the only life we know we get.


That's just it though, by any mainstream version of Christianity, those people are doing it wrong. You don't get to be less of a good person just because hell might exist.

ox45tallboy: Welcome to Atlanta. This is the main branch of World Changers Church International in Lithonia, GA, the "home" of the Reverend Creflo Dollar.


The irony in a prosperity doctrine pastor being named "Dollar'. Lawl.
 
2013-03-31 09:20:57 PM  

Kittypie070: No, I'm aware of that, it was expected that people would give a portion of their bounty to those with less.

If it was EXPECTED, it still does not pass the Kittypie Sniff Test of Free Will.


So, does a religious law that, as a worst possible form of punishment, can result in excommunication from the church and theoretical eternal damnation carry more weight than a secular law, the breach of which can result in property forfeiture and possible imprisonment?

In other words, is obedience of the religious law in its past or current context still "free will"? What about when you consider the implications of excommunication on one's position in society, and the possible condemnation of you by the church which would result in its other members denying patronage of your establishment, or refusing to hire you because of your unclean status? Still "free will"?
 
2013-03-31 09:21:33 PM  
Was at the clinic last week for one of me own woes...ran into a N.A. who was worse off than meself.
Bad genetics + alcohol = Not Happy combination.
Gave the guy a fiver, told him to "GET SOMETHING TO EAT, OK?"

All I can do is Band-AidsTM, not surgery or chemo or anything fancy...but sometimes a Band-aidTM helps...


Sometimes I wish I was filthy, obscenely wealthy...I could do so much more...

I deal with chronic pain, so am sensitive to people who are hurtin' in one way or another...
 
2013-03-31 09:23:48 PM  

Smelly McUgly: So, quite a few newly-rich black people and a bunch of others who will be rich someday. I'm glad to see my assumption worked out.


Yes, indeed it did.

Smelly McUgly: /And congratulations on gettin' DAT ASS, too. :)


Honestly, the best memories came from a chick in her early 20's that was 5'1" and weighed 90 lbs soaking wet. You could NOT under any circumstances make any sort of honest reference to "Dat Ass". But she was a lot of fun outside of bed, too, which has a lot to do with it.
 
2013-03-31 09:24:21 PM  

rohar: A Dark Evil Omen: rohar: Smelly McUgly: Monkeyhouse Zendo: skilbride: And God did not come down from the heavens and pen the bible himself.

And that, my dear, is the best argument that there is no such being.

I think the best argument that there is no God is that God has not revealed him/her/itself to all of us in an unequivocally obvious manner.

Now, as a believer in God, this doesn't really matter, but I use my rational, observational side to vote and learn more about the world and my irrational (and that isn't a negative) inner self to pontificate on the nature of God.

As long as you're a good dude, Monkeyhouse, I think that's all that matters.

I cannot agree.

You see, there is no proof of the nonexistence of a thing.  To attempt to prove that a thing does not exist IS irrational.

"If the Higgs Boson does exist, why haven't we seen it before!?"  You see how dumb that is now, but it seemed to make sense 10 years ago.  Thank God scientists are more rational than that.

And yet, the Christian deity has less evidence for his existence than the luminiferous aether and more against it. So I suppose we can say that he is as likely to exist as the luminiferous aether, or the flat earth or the Hippocratic humors.

And you have a similar grasp of logic that a fence post exhibits.

Anyone.  Anyone who would suggest that the nonexistence of a thing can be proven has absolutely no history in algebra.  Logic obviously defies you.  I'm not suggesting you're wrong, only that you should negotiate this issue from another angle.  Maybe one you have some mastery of.


Why would anyone want to "prove" the nonexistence of "god" when it's irrelevance and impotence is so manifestly obvious?
 
2013-03-31 09:24:59 PM  

TsukasaK: The irony in a prosperity doctrine pastor being named "Dollar'. Lawl.


He's laughing all the way to the bank.
 
2013-03-31 09:25:36 PM  

ox45tallboy: or refusing to hire you because of your unclean status?


I must point out that this would be illegal.
 
2013-03-31 09:28:13 PM  

jso2897: rohar: A Dark Evil Omen: rohar: Smelly McUgly: Monkeyhouse Zendo: skilbride: And God did not come down from the heavens and pen the bible himself.

And that, my dear, is the best argument that there is no such being.

I think the best argument that there is no God is that God has not revealed him/her/itself to all of us in an unequivocally obvious manner.

Now, as a believer in God, this doesn't really matter, but I use my rational, observational side to vote and learn more about the world and my irrational (and that isn't a negative) inner self to pontificate on the nature of God.

As long as you're a good dude, Monkeyhouse, I think that's all that matters.

I cannot agree.

You see, there is no proof of the nonexistence of a thing.  To attempt to prove that a thing does not exist IS irrational.

"If the Higgs Boson does exist, why haven't we seen it before!?"  You see how dumb that is now, but it seemed to make sense 10 years ago.  Thank God scientists are more rational than that.

And yet, the Christian deity has less evidence for his existence than the luminiferous aether and more against it. So I suppose we can say that he is as likely to exist as the luminiferous aether, or the flat earth or the Hippocratic humors.

And you have a similar grasp of logic that a fence post exhibits.

Anyone.  Anyone who would suggest that the nonexistence of a thing can be proven has absolutely no history in algebra.  Logic obviously defies you.  I'm not suggesting you're wrong, only that you should negotiate this issue from another angle.  Maybe one you have some mastery of.

Why would anyone want to "prove" the nonexistence of "god" when it's irrelevance and impotence is so manifestly obvious?


For the life of me I don't know.  The entire premise is logically flawed.  Beyond that, if it's that irrelevant and impotent, why are we having this discussion at all?
 
2013-03-31 09:28:31 PM  

skilbride: No - I don't think it's like that at all. It's more like this: we have brains, and we're expected to use them. The teachings of Christ have some very strong emphasis that can't be denied... do not judge others, love your neighbor, love God... the rest, the things that there are one or two mentions to, or the Old Testament God? You have to use history to supplement the bible.

Kind of like the constitution. :) (Sorry this is less thought out... I'm watching Walking Dead...)


But to me, that deflects the whole point of a Bible-based "Christian" religion to begin with. If you don't accept the whole thing, then why even use it all as a representation of your faith?

I agree wholeheartedly that there are universal truths such as inherent and indirect but definitely measurable benefits to doing good for others, but I don't think that Christianity has a monopoly on this.

I guess what I'm saying is, why Christianity if you reject parts of the Bible?
 
2013-03-31 09:29:28 PM  

CanisNoir: Lionel Mandrake: There is nothing "Christian" about being anti-marriage equality. It's just raw, crass bigotry.

And here it is, the end game... It's not Bigotry, and there *is* marriage equality. Nobody is telling any man that they can't marry a woman, or a woman that she can't marry a man. Everyone has the same right to get married. It's marriage re-definition, not equality that you're after, and once you have it, then you can scream "bigotry" at any religious institution that doesn't want to go along with your re-definition due to moral or theological reasons. The Islamic faith is the harshest against homosexuals and most of the biblical teachings espoused today against it are from the Jewish teachings, yet for some reason most people who speak out for it, categorize Christians as the big meanies in this whole debate. Right now there's a majority of Americans who are against it, the number is shrinking, sure, but it's still a majority, and the last I looked, there's people of all faiths in this country, so who's to say that it's only Christians voting against it?

As for Obamacare being a philosophy that Jesus would have supported, I highly doubt it. Pretty sure his teachings were about focusing on your own soul and not about having the Government force you to care for the poor through taxation.

As for pulling the voting levers to enforce morality, well, that's just something you're going to have to swallow if you want to live in a democratic republic, where we, the people, attempt to govern ourselves. The reasons behind the choices we make can't be gotten rid of - Those who support Gay Marriage vote the way they do out of a personal set of ethics, just as those who are against it do. They are both entitled to vote based upon their personal ethics regardless of how they came about them.


bless your heart
 
2013-03-31 09:30:02 PM  

TsukasaK: I must point out that this would be illegal.


And utterly unenforceable. You're not being hired because we don't need someone right now. Or because we found a candidate that we feel is a better fit. What do you mean, religious discrimination? The person we hired doesn't even go to our church!
 
2013-03-31 09:30:56 PM  

sugardave: That's what you say, but, as I already pointed out, Christians have no problems lying if it promotes the faith. Your protestations mean nothing.


You must be great fun at parties.
 
2013-03-31 09:32:38 PM  

Galileo's Daughter: sugardave: Galileo's Daughter: sugardave: skilbride: sugardave: You are laboring under the (INCREDIBLY incorrect) assumption that I want to talk to Christians. On the contrary, I want to deride them and point out their idiocy at every opportunity. Go to church, worship your drity, but STFU about it and let rational people run things. You can still feel smug that we'll all be burning in Hell, but I feel it is an unfair burden on me that I can't beat the everlasting snot out of you for threatening me.

Where exactly did I threaten you?

Christians threaten every non-believer with eternal damnation EVERY DAY. Are you trying to tell me otherwise?

Overgeneralization.  I'm a Christian, and I don't do that.  Neither do the 100+ members of my congregation.  Try again.

That's what you say, but, as I already pointed out, Christians have no problems lying if it promotes the faith. Your protestations mean nothing.

and you have knowledge of all christians?  oh wait, you don't.  your argument, if it can be called that, fails.  you are relying only on logical fallacies to make your point, and it doesn't work.


Ah, but I know their hearts.  This game is too easy, perhaps I should start a church!
 
2013-03-31 09:36:01 PM  
Canis Noir: As for pulling the voting levers to enforce morality, well, that's just something you're going to have to swallow if you want to live in a democratic republic, where we, the people, attempt to govern ourselves.

And there you have it, another contradiction of Canis' libertarian style "Free Will" argument issued by Canis himself.

Damn :(

Please, dude, pay more attention to what you're saying.

/breaks out the red glass hookah for a sympathy smoke
 
2013-03-31 09:37:58 PM  

gingerjet: sugardave: That's what you say, but, as I already pointed out, Christians have no problems lying if it promotes the faith. Your protestations mean nothing.

You must be great fun at parties.


You know it!
 
2013-03-31 09:43:48 PM  

quatchi: Am I the only one who kept scrolling back up to the top of the page to make sure this was actually on Red State?


Don't worry. Just scroll down to the comments.
 
2013-03-31 09:43:49 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Morality pertains to individuals, not collectives.


And thus the corporation was born.
 
2013-03-31 09:52:11 PM  

GoodyearPimp: Need proof that God hates gays?  Jesus was married and had TONS of heterosexual sex with his wife.  Oh, hang on.  It turns out he was unmarried and hung out with 12 dudes most of the time.  The straightest guy ever.


Plus, he had long hair, a beard, wore flowing robes and drank wine. Do it right or go home.
 
2013-03-31 09:53:54 PM  

CanisNoir: thismomentinblackhistory: But the legislators who voted for the Bill and the President himself did "good work" thus pleasing Jesus.

They did? They actually gave money out of their pocket to individual sick people and handed out food to the hungry? Maybe a few of them took people in off the streets and offered them shelter and I completely missed that news cycle. Passing the bill is not a "good work" - if anything it's contrary to that because it forces people against their will.


I have done this.  Taken homeless lesbians off the street, given them a place to live, eat, wash themselves and their clothes....and time to and find jobs and a place for themselves to live.
BFD.
A gay man gave me a place to live when I was one inch from living in my car (even though employed at the time).
People help each other when they need it.
That's the point of having society.
 
2013-03-31 09:56:58 PM  

ox45tallboy: But to me, that deflects the whole point of a Bible-based "Christian" religion to begin with. If you don't accept the whole thing, then why even use it all as a representation of your faith?

I agree wholeheartedly that there are universal truths such as inherent and indirect but definitely measurable benefits to doing good for others, but I don't think that Christianity has a monopoly on this.

I guess what I'm saying is, why Christianity if you reject parts of the Bible?


Because anything that is touchable by man, is corruptible by man, but Christianity, at least with my church, gets it 90% of the way.  The two closest to my belief system are Judism and Islam, and I have definite complaints with both of those - mainly the following of certain dogma... it's actually similar to the complaint I have with catholic churchs - that they place dogma above the basic teachings.  That being said, since I tend to date only middle eastern guys, I actually tend to end up following Islamic dogma as well.  I can't remember the last time I ate pork, and I always somehow end up fasting.
 
2013-03-31 09:58:17 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: The key point here is that Christ was speaking about voluntary INDIVIDUAL actions - NOT collective actions forced at the end of a government gun. Morality pertains to individuals, not collectives.


sure but if these asshats want to talk about legislating based on the Bible's teachings (and they do), they pretty much have to support these sorts of things. Well, I suppose they don't because those who want to force the Bible's teachings on the rest of us almost never support these sorts of things. Cept in Europe.
 
2013-03-31 10:01:35 PM  

syzygy whizz: CanisNoir: thismomentinblackhistory:*stuff*


Forgot to say I do not identify as a Christian, so maybe this doesn't count for squat...
aside from those I am able to assist.
 
2013-03-31 10:01:45 PM  

ox45tallboy: GAT_00: Yes, let's examine all of Christ's teachings on buying health care:

...

...

...

Fascinating.


While we're at it, can we look at Christ's teachings on homosexuality and gay marriage?

That should take about the same amount of time.


There would be no teaching because being gay is prohibited by Leviticus.That's the go to for Christians Fundies: It's in the Bible. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament. Along with selling daughters into slavery. Remind them about shell fish.
 
2013-03-31 10:07:06 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Amos Quito: Meanwhile back at the ranch...

[www.politicalnewsnow.com image 585x378]

"Render unto Caesar..."

What's with the nose?  Is there something about his nose I've never noticed?


HIS FACE IS HUGE!!! It's yet another in the 9,023,235 flaws that the Right Wing Commentators have cataloged!!
 
2013-03-31 10:08:04 PM  

skilbride: sugardave: skilbride: sugardave: You are laboring under the (INCREDIBLY incorrect) assumption that I want to talk to Christians. On the contrary, I want to deride them and point out their idiocy at every opportunity. Go to church, worship your drity, but STFU about it and let rational people run things. You can still feel smug that we'll all be burning in Hell, but I feel it is an unfair burden on me that I can't beat the everlasting snot out of you for threatening me.

Where exactly did I threaten you?

Christians threaten every non-believer with eternal damnation EVERY DAY. Are you trying to tell me otherwise?

There you go again with the "Christian's".  SOME Christian's do that.  I am not going to threaten you with eternal damnation.  Your soul is of no concern to me.

As a matter of fact, I was sitting on the toilet taking a shiat this morning and I thought it would really funny when all the people who bastardize Christianity to spread hate end up with all the people they hate in the afterlife for forever.


Can we make that applicable to Muslims and not have a war for a few years?
 
2013-03-31 10:09:41 PM  

skilbride: How presumptuous of you to assume that just because I'm Christian I'm not one of the people out there discovering amazing new things every day. Or that I don't appreciate science, etc etc.


I don't know you from Adam (heh) but use of phrases like "the bible is our holy book" is indicative of magical, wishful thinking. And all of the anti-science, teach the controversy, Noah's-ark-was-real cartoonery seems to be coming from people who self-identify as Christians. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the south who fly the confederate flag in celebration of history, but they get lumped in with the racist douchebags all the same. You might be working on the Hadron Collider, but if you identify with a religion known for its anti-science ideology, people are going to treat you differently.

skilbride:I tend to exclusively date middle eastern, Muslim men...I have faced less hate, and more understanding from THEM, no matter how devout they are, then I do from people who have no faith.

It's not very surprising that men predisposed to mystic thinking and rigid religious authority would be understanding of a woman with similar beliefs. Think about it... if you met a guy who seemed great, then found out he was a Scientologist, wouldn't it change your perception of him? Just knowing that he really believed all their nutty things that someone made up? Well that's how Christians tend to come across to those of us who don't have that set of beliefs.
 
2013-03-31 10:09:50 PM  
Because it's not about being "Christ-like". It's about being a total arsehole and cherry picking the values you want to push on others based on your own misconceptions, ignorance and stupidity. Logic, facts and reasoning only get jn the way!!
 
2013-03-31 10:12:38 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: The key point here is that Christ was speaking about voluntary INDIVIDUAL actions - NOT collective actions forced at the end of a government gun. Morality pertains to individuals, not collectives.


And if you don't you'll be forced to suffer Eternal Damnation.
In Hell. The Inferno. Lake of Fire and Brimstone.

Churches are  collectives. They collect your money for 'good works' and threaten you with eternal suffering if you fail to comply.

You want to claim the virtue of Christianity without actually being Christian.
 
2013-03-31 10:13:16 PM  

Kittypie070: And there you have it, another contradiction of Canis' libertarian style "Free Will" argument issued by Canis himself.


I don't see the contradiction. They're two different arguments and not contradictory at all because of it. I'll take the sympathy smoke tho :)
 
2013-03-31 10:13:53 PM  

gingerjet: sugardave: That's what you say, but, as I already pointed out, Christians have no problems lying if it promotes the faith. Your protestations mean nothing.

You must be great fun at parties.


he might be if he is ever invited to one
 
2013-03-31 10:14:08 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: It's not very surprising that men predisposed to mystic thinking and rigid religious authority would be understanding of a woman with similar beliefs. Think about it... if you met a guy who seemed great, then found out he was a Scientologist, wouldn't it change your perception of him? Just knowing that he really believed all their nutty things that someone made up? Well that's how Christians tend to come across to those of us who don't have that set of beliefs.


Uh, my wife's devoutly Christian.  I'm honestly agnostic.  Thanks for speaking for the rest of us, as if you have any idea how to be socially acceptable or how a society works.

/asshole
 
2013-03-31 10:15:43 PM  
All of the scriptures quoted here advocate individuals helping the poor. This is one of the ways Christians build up treasures in Heaven.

Jesus never suggested that the government should take from some, and give to others. All He ever said on the subject was to give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's. Rather He said God helps those who help themselves.
 
2013-03-31 10:16:08 PM  

skilbride: Monkeyhouse Zendo: I would hold that by putting your faith in a non-existent afterlife you are shortchanging the one life you will ever have.

Or, I'm enriching it but living in a way that benefits those around me?

Listen, if you want to seriously sit down and talk and learn to how I got here from where I was (which wasn't all that different from you) in 28 years, I can.  For years I doubted faith (all faiths) but over the course of my late 20's, I've come to a place where I am through letting my faith guide me.   Since then my life has changed for the better, and I believe. (I spent a significant amount of time in my early 20's attending al-anon meetings at a local episcopal church, and that's how I got involved.)

Like I said, I picked a church that doesn't contradict my views.  The episcopal church will be having gay marriages in the National Cathedral this year!  We welcome anyone, gay, straight, black, white, drunk, sober, who cares!  We welcome you, and will help you if you need it, and if you want to talk about the true teachings and hear what we believe, we are more than willing. :)

But I don't think I am wasting my life now by believing in God.


Yes, religion can make people's lives better. But in my opinion, it was you who improved your environment on your own. If it was God that inspired you, hey, good for you. People seem to like the idea of surrendering to a deity and giving the responsibility to him.  But God doesn't get people sober or fix their finances. People might assign the credit to him, but all along it was the individual who simply got his sh*t in order without realizing it.

As for your church, it sounds like a nice place. While I'm not a Christian, I'm always glad to see a church that seems genuinely concerned for community outreach and, well, love and compassion. I know they exist! My parents went to one of those "dress up one day per week and pretend we're pious" Baptist deals. A rumor started that one young member was gay, and you could actually see the congregation in the parking lot pointing and whispering at him. The church seemed to instantly turn on him. Thing is, HE WASN'T GAY. It was just a malicious rumor, and as you know, the more salacious the rumor the quicker it spreads. But the judgment passed on him is something that has stuck with me all my life. I mean, people actually sneered.
 
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