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(USA Today)   Kentucky passes law that will allow people to break the law in accordance with their religious faith. In related news, Al Qaida was reportedly looking for directions to Fort Campbell, KY on Google Maps   (usatoday.com) divider line 223
    More: Asinine, Google Maps, Kentucky, al-Qaeda, Steve Beshear, Kentucky Supreme Court, Capitol Steps, school prayer, Frankfort, Kentucky  
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6714 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Mar 2013 at 11:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-31 08:32:21 AM
Silly submitter. Don't you know that law only applies to proper white God-fearing Christains?
 
2013-03-31 09:12:35 AM
So they're giving the government the power to decide what is a legitimate religion and what religious beliefs are sincere. No way this could possibly go wrong.
 
2013-03-31 09:41:55 AM
As a devout Goldfingerian, I look forward to my pilgrimage next week to Ft. Knox.
 
2013-03-31 10:06:20 AM
And just like that moonshine becomes legal
 
2013-03-31 10:36:31 AM
news.bbc.co.uk

JAH MON
 
2013-03-31 10:39:34 AM
This sounds like a jobs creation program for lawyers.
 
2013-03-31 10:42:05 AM
Why do they hate the Constitution?
 
2013-03-31 10:57:09 AM
These kinds of things always conflict me.

I am a person who believes heavily in the freedom of religion. Although I do not believe in god I do believe that our nation was founded on core beliefs that included religious freedom.

At the same time, I dislike bigotry.

This has its awkward moments when I have to negotiate those "race mixing is devils tool" with allowing those people to not be discriminated. Then you have those who believe in the sanctity of marriage betwixt a man and a woman. That is unacceptable because marriage is a legal issue, not a moral one. Some of these people really do feel that if they are forced to wed two gay people (or back in the 50s a white and a black) then god will smite them. To them, two homosexuals marrying is on the same par as other crime.

I am really unsure how to resolve this. I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?
 
2013-03-31 11:17:55 AM
I'm a devout Rastafarian.

I'll be relocating to Kentucky as soon as I can load up my VW van!
 
2013-03-31 11:18:09 AM

cman: Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?


Not with this stupid law.

"This is a piece of legislation looking for a reason," Owens said.

Like laws against gay marriage, or voter ID laws, or anti-Sharia laws.

This is a desperate move by frightened and ignorant people who have been convinced by charlatans that they are under attack.
 
2013-03-31 11:26:07 AM

cman: These kinds of things always conflict me.

I am a person who believes heavily in the freedom of religion. Although I do not believe in god I do believe that our nation was founded on core beliefs that included religious freedom.

At the same time, I dislike bigotry.

This has its awkward moments when I have to negotiate those "race mixing is devils tool" with allowing those people to not be discriminated. Then you have those who believe in the sanctity of marriage betwixt a man and a woman. That is unacceptable because marriage is a legal issue, not a moral one. Some of these people really do feel that if they are forced to wed two gay people (or back in the 50s a white and a black) then god will smite them. To them, two homosexuals marrying is on the same par as other crime.

I am really unsure how to resolve this. I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?


No. Because your right to your own beliefs ends well before imposing your beliefs on me.
 
2013-03-31 11:31:24 AM

Lionel Mandrake: cman: Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?

Not with this stupid law.

"This is a piece of legislation looking for a reason," Owens said.

Like laws against gay marriage, or voter ID laws, or anti-Sharia laws.

This is a desperate move by frightened and ignorant people who have been convinced by charlatans that they are under attack.


These are the ignorant people who are claiming they are under attack and are 'protecting' their values. Apparently a core Christian value is oppressing others.
 
2013-03-31 11:33:52 AM

cman: These kinds of things always conflict me.

I am a person who believes heavily in the freedom of religion. Although I do not believe in god I do believe that our nation was founded on core beliefs that included religious freedom.

At the same time, I dislike bigotry.

This has its awkward moments when I have to negotiate those "race mixing is devils tool" with allowing those people to not be discriminated. Then you have those who believe in the sanctity of marriage betwixt a man and a woman. That is unacceptable because marriage is a legal issue, not a moral one. Some of these people really do feel that if they are forced to wed two gay people (or back in the 50s a white and a black) then god will smite them. To them, two homosexuals marrying is on the same par as other crime.

I am really unsure how to resolve this. I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?




Here is how I solved it. As long as my belief did not interfere with anyone else's beliefs or harm someone. School prayer, forces a religious view on people.

You can't force a church to gay marry someone ( just like you cannot force catholic Church to remarry a divorce) but it should mean that gay people are allowed to marry elsewhere.
 
2013-03-31 11:34:49 AM
Kentucky sounds like a solid place to go if you want to practice Sharia Law.
 
2013-03-31 11:37:27 AM
unless it can show with "clear and convincing evidence" some compelling governmental interest for doing so.

Ah, so the thing that lacks that is...

 "It wasn't so long ago we had prayer in the schools, but they made us take it out."

Nope, prayer led in a government institution clearly violates the first amendment and there is a clear government interest in not allowing steps toward establishing a theocracy.  Try again?

Proponents, who include the Family Foundation and the Catholic Conference of Kentucky

not helping your case there...

... ah, so you've got nothing, and your bill fails its own standards of needing a clear and compelling government interest.  Fail.
 
2013-03-31 11:39:49 AM
So if a Muslim father wants to stone his daughter to death for shaming the family he should take her to Kentucky?
 
2013-03-31 11:40:44 AM
FTFA:  But Republican Rep. Stan Lee said, "It wasn't so long ago we had prayer in the schools, but they made us take it out."

Excelsior!

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-31 11:42:05 AM
Well, THIS isn't going to end like that Nebraska law that ended in people from halfway across the country dumping their teenagers and driving off.
 
2013-03-31 11:46:37 AM

cman: I am really unsure how to resolve this. I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.


Let's make this easy, who is being forced to commit actions against their deeply held beliefs? As far as I can tell, no church is being forced to perform same-sex marriages or interracial marriages for that matter.

The problem is that the religious have confused not being able to enforce their religious beliefs as law with being forced to do things that run counter to their religion.
 
2013-03-31 11:46:46 AM
But Republican Rep. Stan Lee said, "It wasn't so long ago we had prayer in the schools, but they made us take it out."

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
Have a seat my lad, we need to have a little talk.
 
2013-03-31 11:47:53 AM
Let me guess; this is mainly geared towards outlawing abortion and birth control.
 
2013-03-31 11:48:20 AM

Jim_Callahan: unless it can show with "clear and convincing evidence" some compelling governmental interest for doing so.

Ah, so the thing that lacks that is...

 "It wasn't so long ago we had prayer in the schools, but they made us take it out."

Nope, prayer led in a government institution clearly violates the first amendment and there is a clear government interest in not allowing steps toward establishing a theocracy.  Try again?


Proponents, who include the Family Foundation and the Catholic Conference of Kentucky

not helping your case there...

... ah, so you've got nothing, and your bill fails its own standards of needing a clear and compelling government interest.  Fail.


Came to say this. Unless they've actually forbidden students from praying, I don't see a problem.
 
2013-03-31 11:50:21 AM
Vicco, a small town in rural Appalachia,  has voted to ban discriminiation against anyone based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Let that sink in.
 
2013-03-31 11:51:30 AM
This is the inbred, snaggle poop toothed idiot, jesus version of "religious freedom". The one where inbred idjits can deny lifesaving treatment to someone because jesus.

"oh, that guy looks effeminate, jesus says let him die, so I'mma not do cpr, k?"

I wish Sherman had spent some time burning down Kentucky too.
 
2013-03-31 11:52:43 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: The problem is that the religious have confused not being able to enforce their religious beliefs as law with being forced to do things that run counter to their religion.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-31 11:53:11 AM

Gosling: Well, THIS isn't going to end like that Nebraska law that ended in people from halfway across the country dumping their teenagers and driving off.


That was perhaps the most sad and yet strangely entertaining thing to hear on the news in the weeks that past when that law became active. It stunned me how a person can take their (I think the max age was 16?) teenager to NB, and just abandon them Joe Dirt style.

As for this "law", which pretty much allows the Taliban to exist with impunity...it embodies one of the many reasons people are leaving the GOP.
 
2013-03-31 11:54:46 AM
First, can we please have some "clear and convincing evidence" that there is a God?
 
2013-03-31 11:55:33 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: The problem is that the religious have confused not being able to enforce their religious beliefs as law with being forced to do things that run counter to their religion.


Trust me, this is geared/planned towards pharmacists, teachers, crap like that.
 
2013-03-31 11:56:39 AM
This couldn't possibly backfire.
 
2013-03-31 11:58:49 AM

Satanic_Hamster: Let me guess; this is mainly geared towards outlawing abortion and birth control.


Actually, it's pretty much geared towards doing away with the few Fairness ordinances in the state--you know, the laws that say that you can't be fired because your boss thinks you might have The Gay.  (The local dominionists have been pretty much unsuccessful in overturning them locally, so they've worked with the state legislature--which is far more dominionist-friendly and Southern Baptist-controlled--to basically give dominionists a free ticket to disregard those laws.)

Of course, as others have pointed out, they've also effectively legalised a lot of things they probably did not intend--things like polygamy, moonshine (in dry counties), marijuana (not just the Rastas, quite a number of other groups do use marijuana as a sacrament including at least one Christian church), snake-handling churches (illegal since 1946 but only sporadically enforced as it is), peyote (there aren't any federally recognised tribes in the US but this opens up for ANYONE to use peyote sacramentally), psilocybes (magic mushrooms are used by shamanic practitioners in European paleopagan and "reconstructionist" neopagan faiths), setting up one's own brothel and drug den as the First Temple of Slaanesh...

Of course, I also expect this will go away soon enough the very first time that someone is fired for being a member of the Wrong Religion and decides to file suit in federal court and/or the first time that a group using cannabis or peyote as a sacrament gets busted by the state cops.  (Unfortunately, even our Democrats tend to be Republicans in spirit here, and the General Assembly tends to be prone to this sort of derp and the following courthouse smackdown.  About a decade ago, they tried to basically regulate non-Christian denominations out of existence by requiring licensing for pastors, and it was ironically a member of a small Primitive Baptist church that got THAT law overturned in the courts...)
 
2013-03-31 12:00:12 PM

abb3w: This sounds like a jobs creation program for lawyers.


Because they are!

I personally enjoy watching fiscal conservatives AKA  Right wing Christian pay tax payer attorney fees to evil 'secular-progressive' lawyers. Mo money mo problems.

/to your Mother

//I apologize for my outburst

///only kinda
 
2013-03-31 12:00:41 PM

Great Porn Dragon: About a decade ago, they tried to basically regulate non-Christian denominations out of existence by requiring licensing for pastors, and it was ironically a member of a small Primitive Baptist church that got THAT law overturned in the courts...


What.  How the hell did they think that would be legal / survive legal challenge.  Or were they just idiots.
 
2013-03-31 12:01:09 PM
These people are seriously retarded. It has to be some kind of mental disorder, there is no other explanation.
 
2013-03-31 12:01:17 PM

The Iconoclast: First, can we please have some "clear and convincing evidence" that there is a God?


You may go to hell for saying that on the holy day when the easter bunny hands out eggs to all girls and boys who believe in jeebus.
 
2013-03-31 12:06:10 PM
But Republican Rep. Stan Lee said, "It wasn't so long ago we had prayer in the schools, but they made us take it out."

Uh, no.  Nope.  Students can pray all they want to.  State employees just can't participate.

pyrotek85:  Unless they've actually forbidden students from praying, I don't see a problem.


Yes, this.

/yeah, I know some teachers/administrators don't get this distinction
//and there is, in fact, tons of teacher/coach-led prayer in public schools
///doesn't particularly bother me either way - I mean we still have kids fascistly (word?) pledge allegiance to the symbol of the state
 
2013-03-31 12:07:01 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Great Porn Dragon: About a decade ago, they tried to basically regulate non-Christian denominations out of existence by requiring licensing for pastors, and it was ironically a member of a small Primitive Baptist church that got THAT law overturned in the courts...

What.  How the hell did they think that would be legal / survive legal challenge.  Or were they just idiots.


They're Southern Baptist idiots, dear...pretty much the very same folks who functionally kept three-fourths of the state in Prohibition until VERY recently (and still half the counties are dry; the main reason that some counties are going moist and/or wet is that major chain "casual dining" restaurants are refusing to set up shop along I-64 and I-75 unless they can sell a beer or a cocktail with meals and these restaurants are functionally the only tax base in those areas aside from the coal mines and Wal-Mart).

It is literally impossible to underestimate the sheer, unadulterated level of religionationalist blatantly-ignorant derp that comes from the parts of this state outside Louisville, Lexington, Covington, or possibly Owensboro and Paducah; hell, we're one of the states that still had a major "Christian Patriot" militia movement after Clinton left office (and before Obama left in), are one of the few states where Hillary Clinton won the Democratic primary because people refused to vote for a Blah Man, and (particularly in Appalachia) "sundown towns" existed well into the 80's and Klan membership was almost required to get into Respectable Town Society.  (Not joking on that, either.  Have known too many folks who either lived there for a time and left, or grew up there and became refugees in Louisville.)
 
2013-03-31 12:08:00 PM
Murdering people who cannot merge onto the highway is now my official religion.

My official symbol. the 12 gauge Mossberg 590 pump action shotgun.


MURICA! FARK YEAH!
 
2013-03-31 12:08:24 PM

cman: I dislike bigotry and I dislike it when people must commit actions against their deeply held beliefs.

Anyone else deal with this kind of internal conflict?


I dislike it when people know that they have bigoted views regarding certain situations, and then take up a job where they know they will then be forced to choose between their religion and actually doing their job.

/don't believe in birth control? Don't take a job as a pharmacist.
//don't believe certain people should get married? Don't take a job as a Justice of the Peace.
 
2013-03-31 12:09:06 PM

Great Porn Dragon: Satanic_Hamster:  About a decade ago, they tried to basically regulate non-Christian denominations out of existence by requiring licensing for pastors, and it was ironically a member of a small Primitive Baptist church that got THAT law overturned in ...


There is no irony there. The Primitive Baptists churches I grew up around are, and always have been, adamant about the seperation of church and state.
 
2013-03-31 12:09:26 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Monkeyhouse Zendo: The problem is that the religious have confused not being able to enforce their religious beliefs as law with being forced to do things that run counter to their religion.

Trust me, this is geared/planned towards pharmacists, teachers, crap like that.


Doubtless. My initial thought was that it was a same-sex marriage thing since that's the hot button topic of the day but I see your point regarding providing a legal shield for douchebag pharmacists and proselytizing teachers.

It's shiat like this that took me from not caring about other people's religion to "militant atheist". I don't care what flavor of imaginary friend people vow their eternal submission to provided they don't try to force other people to submit to their primitive world view. I can live with the vast amount of time, energy, and resources wasted in the worship of mythological beings; I don't like it but I can live with it. Unfortunately, not having everyone else bow down to their idol and it's dictums is apparently unacceptable.
 
2013-03-31 12:09:34 PM

balloot: Kentucky sounds like a solid place to go if you want to practice Sharia Law.


I think that's where Subby was heading with the al Qaeda herpaderp.
 
2013-03-31 12:10:13 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Let's make this easy, who is being forced to commit actions against their deeply held beliefs?


it's been covered but one of the main talking points is pharmacists having to dispense the morning after pill. if your job requires you to preform a legal activity you can't just say "because jesus" and not do it.
 
2013-03-31 12:11:14 PM

The Iconoclast: First, can we please have some "clear and convincing evidence" that there is a God?


One man's "clear and convincing" is another man's "nonsensical and illogical".
 
2013-03-31 12:11:18 PM

AliceBToklasLives: ///doesn't particularly bother me either way - I mean we still have kids fascistly (word?) pledge allegiance to the symbol of the state


I pledge allegiance, to the bag,
Of the united states of america,
And to the shopping mall  where it was filled.
One nation, underwallmart
Divisible, by paper grocery bags.
 
2013-03-31 12:13:22 PM
My religion makes sacrifices to our Gods.

All we need are Virgins.

Unfortunately the test to check for Virginity removes the virginity, so we shall now use the people of Kentucky as virgins for sacrifice.

/Separation of church and State... Hows that work?... One law for all!
 
2013-03-31 12:14:06 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: balloot: Kentucky sounds like a solid place to go if you want to practice Sharia Law.

I think that's where Subby was heading with the al Qaeda herpaderp.


Not really herpaderp. I could easily see a devout Muslim or fundamentalist Christian attempting to use this law as a defense for slapping a woman in a short skirt for her lack of modesty.
 
2013-03-31 12:14:52 PM

Dansker: The Iconoclast: First, can we please have some "clear and convincing evidence" that there is a God?

One man's "clear and convincing" is another man's "nonsensical and illogical".


www.fishink.us


/oblig
 
2013-03-31 12:15:38 PM
The funny thing is, I've already heard of a minister or two, and more than a few gay couples, in Louisville who are going to cite this very law in the course of applying for marriage licenses and marrying.

The state legislature set its own bar for overcoming this law, in the law itself, as strict scrutiny. The state now must without exception show compelling interest  and least-restrictive means in disallowing gay marriage, if the minister and couple involved have a sincerely-held religious belief they should be allowed to be married. Of course, knowing the yahoos who got this law passed, the state will try to argue it's not a sincerely-held religious belief which is a whole different ballgame in the courts as it turns to a free exercise issue and therefore strict scrutiny applies by default.
 
2013-03-31 12:16:11 PM
Expect the courts to be packed as now every prisoner in Kentucky will be filing to have their sentence overturned on religious grounds.
 
2013-03-31 12:17:40 PM

Curious: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Let's make this easy, who is being forced to commit actions against their deeply held beliefs?

it's been covered but one of the main talking points is pharmacists having to dispense the morning after pill. if your job requires you to preform a legal activity you can't just say "because jesus" and not do it.


They should be able to do that. I don't think the law should for e someone to give out something. On the other and the law shouldn't protect him from getting fired if his employer doesn't like it
 
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