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(Russia Today)   Youtube video of explosions? We're gonna go ahead decide that's an illegal explosives manufacture, peon. Because we can   (rt.com) divider line 72
    More: Asinine, YouTube, FPSRussia, ATF, sniper rifles, explosions, explosives  
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5338 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Mar 2013 at 5:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-03-30 06:08:50 PM
8 votes:
Did nobody make it down to the last two paragraphs?

The raids on the Myers' properties were staged as part of an investigation into the death of 32-year-old Keith Richard Ratliff, who was found dead on January 3. Ratliff and the Myers family were co-owners of gun producer FPS Industries; Ratliff was also executive producer of the FPSRussia channel, acquiring or creating rare weapons for the show.
Ratliff was killed by a single bullet to the head. Though a large number of firearms were found at Ratliff's business premises, the murder weapon was not among them. The investigation continues, and so far no names of possible suspects or persons of interest have been revealed.


There's more to it than the man just hassling some youtube redneck who likes making things go boom.
2013-03-30 06:56:37 PM
3 votes:

xanadian: So, why did they confiscate all his guns? Is there a legal limit to the number of firearms you can own?  Or is this just YET AGAIN another over-reach of federal authority?

People wonder why the "gun nuts" go all apeshiat at the mention of gun control.


[quizzicaldog]

The ATF "considered" the idea apparently but decided at some point that they already had enough egg on their face and dropped it.

FTA:  No illegal explosives were found and no arrests were made, but considering the unprecedented arsenal stocked at one of the locations, the agents considered confiscating Myers' weapons. "The idea at one of the locations was to take firearms, but they did not do that," an ATF spokesperson said, according to Onlineathens.com.

I get that the ATF were on a fishing expedition here and that an unsolved murder is part of this deal but to me this looks less like the ATF doing their jobs properly and more like intimidation and shoddy police work.
2013-03-30 06:40:41 PM
3 votes:

odinsposse: The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.

The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.

The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.


The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.

This is the problem here, folks.
2013-03-30 06:31:23 PM
3 votes:
I have a question for everyone. If someone posted a video that showed a group robbing a store (and it looked like it was real), do you think police should investigate those people? Should they check their house to see if they really stole the stuff in the video?

I bet almost everyone here would say yes. But because this is something some people in this thread identify themselves with they are blind to see it's the same thing.
2013-03-30 05:15:51 PM
3 votes:

The ATF looked into some weird guy with an explosives fetish?

OMFG!!1!  IT'S THE GODDAM FOURTH REICH!!!!



I'd be worried if they weren't looking into guys like that.
2013-03-30 09:33:18 PM
2 votes:

cman: I am gonna wait for the "Better safe than sorry" portion of the Right to come out and defend ATF actions


You're not going to find anybody on that end of the political spectrum that likes the ATF.  In fact, most of them have wanted to disband the entire agency for decades, back to at least the Waco and Ruby Ridge era.

ATF is a bunch of worthless morons running around doing the bidding of a handful of political appointees who are full-blown malicious jackbooted thugs.  And they apparently have lots of backing because they can even run guns to Mexican drug cartels, get border patrol agents murdered, and never have to face any serious consequences.
2013-03-30 09:16:07 PM
2 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: They looked, they found nothing, they did nothing.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now do you see the outrage?

There's no reason to believe illegal weapons or explosives were in the possession of a popular entertainer who explicitly states what he's using for each effect in a number of videos.

This was a pointless raid conducted in bad faith by an untrustworthy agency against the wrong kind of target contrary to the stated goals of our very nation. How are you not outraged?
2013-03-30 06:51:36 PM
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?

Because he identifies what he's doing in each of his videos -- for example, "AK-47 + Tannerite!"

Oh, so he can't say it's Tannerite if it's really TNT, right? That's like, impossible to do!


*facepalm*

Let's use an analogy. A guy posts videos on Youtube about growing a garden indoors. The DEA raids him to see if he is growing weed. You are basically saying that's okay because he certainly could be growing weed so they should kick down his door just in case.
2013-03-30 06:26:24 PM
2 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: Corvus: So now people in this thread believe that we can't regulate explosives anymore?

That everything is a "second amendment right"? A tank, an RPG and a nuke is ok too.

Sorry guys we have munition laws on explosives we always have.

Sorry, if there was anything that was improper and didn't comply with regulations, they would have seized it and pressed charges.


And? How would we have known that if they didn't investigate it?
2013-03-30 05:57:14 PM
2 votes:

cman: I am gonna wait for the "Better safe than sorry" portion of the Right to come out and defend ATF actions


Actually the ATF is one of the few agencies that both the left and the right generally agree should be taken out back and shot.
2013-03-30 05:35:27 PM
2 votes:
markosun.files.wordpress.com

Dozens of federal agents scoured the family property of YouTube
celebrity Kyle 'FPSRussia' Myers while searching for illegal
explosives and possibly weapons, but left empty-handed hooved
2013-03-30 11:07:47 PM
1 votes:

Kaybeck: Ed Grubermann: He's not a terrorist and he's not stupid.

How many videos show him wearing eye/ear protection?


Only the ones that require ear protection have it. When he's indoors or has a large weapon, he wears ear mufflers. Outdoors the sound can't reverberate so it's not so important to wear hearing protection. You only get one hit from the wave.

The glasses are omnipresent so I assume they're safety glassed. They make those, you know. Just because it's for protection doesn't mean it has to look like ass.

images1.opticsplanet.com
2013-03-30 10:18:27 PM
1 votes:

doglover: Lionel Mandrake: How so?

All I said is that I see no reason to assume that they broke laws or did anything horrific


That's how.


What?  Are you f*cking serious?

Well, enjoy your outrage.

As additional info comes out, I may or may not be raging right along with you in the next thread about it.

Do forgive me for not just assuming something terrible happened.  I'm one of those people who likes to have evidence before making conclusions.  You'll thank me if I'm ever a juror at your trial.
2013-03-30 10:09:39 PM
1 votes:

MurphyMurphy: Lionel Mandrake: So is it time to grab our guns and overthrow the tyrants?

Who said anything about that?

Absolutely rich coming from a guy that just went off on not jumping to conclusions.


It was a joke, skippy.  Although I am genuinely curious about what the breaking point would be.

doglover: Lionel Mandrake: But I think it's safe to avoid jumping to conclusions.

You're the one jumping to conclusions.


How so?

All I said is that I see no reason to assume that they broke laws or did anything horrific.  And I also said that if further information came out that indicated they had, I would be pissed off like you guys.

So what conclusion did I jump to?
2013-03-30 10:07:19 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Do you get pissed off when a Doctor comes into your home(uninvited), and orders an X-ray, because he saw that you had fallen off of your skateboard in a youtube video, and then doesn't find anything?


Yes.
2013-03-30 09:59:20 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: So is it time to grab our guns and overthrow the tyrants?


Who said anything about that?

Absolutely rich coming from a guy that just went off on not jumping to conclusions.
2013-03-30 09:58:43 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: But I think it's safe to avoid jumping to conclusions.


You're the one jumping to conclusions.

The ATF is a horrible agency and they've been the lynchpin in every boondoggle from the St Valentine's Day Massacre up through Waco and the retaliatory Oklahoma City Bombing all the way on though to Operation: Help Mexican Criminals Kill Border Patrol Agents

Their track record speaks for itself. It's jumping to any conclusions to assume they are in violation of SOP and the Constitution, because they usually are.
2013-03-30 09:54:29 PM
1 votes:

doglover: Lionel Mandrake: doglover: Do you not see where it's the ATF?

I don't see where that justifies jumping to conclusions.

So when the perpetual fark up agency is perpetually farking up and something they're doing yet again goes wrong you don't think it's safe to logically assume this is yet another go round in a well know cycle of fark ups and instead have infinite faith that this time it's not their fault and they did a good job for once?


I don't know where you got that idea...

But I think it's safe to avoid jumping to conclusions.

Good for the blood pressure, too.
2013-03-30 09:37:42 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: I'm no apologist for these guys, but I'm not going to assume that their actions are some kind of Keystone Kops meets the KGB farce until I see a reason to.


Do you not see where it's the ATF?

The ATF was formerly part of the United States Department of the Treasury, having been formed in 1886 as the "Revenue Laboratory" within the Treasury Department's Bureau of Internal Revenue. The history of ATF can be subsequently traced to the time of the revenuers or "revenoors"[6] and the Bureau of Prohibition, which was formed as a unit of the Bureau of Internal Revenue in 1920, was made an independent agency within the Treasury Department in 1927, was transferred to the Justice Department in 1930, and became, briefly, a division of the FBI in 1933.

When the Volstead Act, which established prohibition in the United States, was repealed in December 1933, the Unit was transferred from the Department of Justice back to the Department of the Treasury where it became the Alcohol Tax Unit (ATU) of the Bureau of Internal Revenue. Special Agent Eliot Ness and several members of The "Untouchables", who had worked for the Prohibition Bureau while the Volstead Act was still in force, were transferred to the ATU. In 1942, responsibility for enforcing federal firearms laws was given to the ATU.

In the early 1950s, the Bureau of Internal Revenue was renamed "Internal Revenue Service" (IRS),[7] and the ATU was given the additional responsibility of enforcing federal tobacco tax laws. At this time, the name of the ATU was changed to the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division (ATTD).

In 1968, with the passage of the Gun Control Act, the agency changed its name again, this time to the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Division of the IRS and first began to be referred to by the initials "ATF"



They were formed by the tax men, bounced around a bit and given the mandate to swing the bick dick of the Volstead Act around and fark good honest Americans who just want a damn beer after work right up the ass. Their accomplishment was busting Capone. Oh wait, they never did that and had to rely on the IRS to cover their asses. Anyway, after they failed at their one job horribly they were bounced some more and given more responsibilities and pretty much wound up in charge of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives. But god knows why because they're perpetual fark ups and they're horrible at every job but catching the smallest of small fry.

The Past 40 Years of Failure
2013-03-30 09:32:35 PM
1 votes:

doglover: Lionel Mandrake: doglover: Lionel Mandrake: They looked, they found nothing, they did nothing.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now do you see the outrage?

So you've seen the warrant and you know it didn't do those things?


Where's their oath and affirmations? Where's the illegal guns? Where's the illegal explosives? Where's the backlash for bearing false witness against those people who gave the oaths?


Oh right...you have to know something illegal is there before you can get a warrant to see if there's anything illegal there.  In order to get the proof, you need to already have it.

If it comes out that there was no warrant or something, believe me, I'll be plenty mad.  Until I have a reason to be pissed, I think I'll just remain calm.
2013-03-30 09:30:52 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Oh, so he can't say it's Tannerite if it's really TNT, right? That's like, impossible to do!


He's sponsored by a company that sells Tannerite.  He has a video where he does a tour of the facility where they make the Tannerite he uses in his videos.  He shows himself setting up the Tannerite.

Why, when he's getting free Tannerite and money for using Tannerite, would he instead spend money (thus digging into his monetized YouTube account profits) to use TNT?

It's almost as if you have no idea WTF you are talking about.
2013-03-30 09:30:37 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Corvus: So now people in this thread believe that we can't regulate explosives anymore?

That everything is a "second amendment right"? A tank, an RPG and a nuke is ok too.

Sorry guys we have munition laws on explosives we always have.

you must have missed the part where a government agency raided a guys property looking for illegal stuff and couldn't find any. Then you must have also missed the part where, because he videotapes shiat blowing up, they want him to get a manufacture license.

cause if you missed that, what oyu said would be totally legit.

Do you get pissed off when a Doctor orders an X-ray and then doesn't find anything?


If the Doctor came to my house and forced me to get an x-ray... Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed.
2013-03-30 09:26:50 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: doglover: Lionel Mandrake: They looked, they found nothing, they did nothing.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now do you see the outrage?

So you've seen the warrant and you know it didn't do those things?



Where's their oath and affirmations? Where's the illegal guns? Where's the illegal explosives? Where's the backlash for bearing false witness against those people who gave the oaths?
2013-03-30 09:19:23 PM
1 votes:

doglover: Lionel Mandrake: They looked, they found nothing, they did nothing.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now do you see the outrage?


So you've seen the warrant and you know it didn't do those things?
2013-03-30 09:06:42 PM
1 votes:

Phoenix87ta: Lionel Mandrake: Phoenix87ta: Lionel Mandrake: Phoenix87ta: I'm a filthy liberal and I'm not personally a fan of firearms, but even so...

Fark the ATF.  Follow the law just like the rest of us, assholes.

What law did they break?

As far as I can tell, they completely lacked any kind of probable cause for the raid, and while considering confiscating his legal weapons because there were "too many" isn't against the law because they didn't actually DO it, it's still particularly troubling that they 1) considered it, and 2) quite happily announced that they were considering it, as if it were perfectly acceptable.

Basically, the ATF has repeatedly demonstrated their incompetence and their willingness to do whatever the fark they want.  That bothers me.

So you're saying that 40+ agents of the ATF, FBI, and GBI did all this without a warrant?  You'd think someone would mention something like that.

I would like to hear more about why they "considered it," but I'm sure they were considering what - if any - laws might apply, and apparently concluded that none did, so they didn't take anything.  To me this sounds like the law worked pretty well, and nobody stepped over any lines.

Sop, again, what law did they break?

People here are getting all worked up over something that didn't happen!  WTF??

I'm astounded that you're okay with what happened here.  The ATF raided this guy's property for doing something that was 100% legal.  I'm inclined to wonder how they got a warrant based on that weak shiat in the first place.  They then threatened to confiscate his legal property because he had too many of a particular item.  You don't find any of this slightly disconcerting?


No, I don't.  Because nothing happened.

If I could look at the warrant or maybe know what led them to believe something might be found, I might find the reasoning pretty thin and conclude that the agents and whoever authorized this acted improperly.

But I see nothing illegal in their conduct, and I guess I'm just not inclined to see the ATF as some kind of American Gestapo or something.

They looked, they found nothing, they did nothing.
2013-03-30 09:01:10 PM
1 votes:

TheBigJerk: I'm left wondering how much of the article is accurate.


The last time a "Russia Times" story was GL'ed, it was about the "Monsanto Protection Act", or a provision of the 2013 farm bill that was "unprecedented"...except for the fact that it was also in the 2012 farm bill, and the 2011 farm bill, and every other farm bill since the GMO investigation began.  In other words, they like stirring up shiat from the right-wing.
2013-03-30 08:52:53 PM
1 votes:

Snapper Carr: cman: I am gonna wait for the "Better safe than sorry" portion of the Right to come out and defend ATF actions

Actually the ATF is one of the few agencies that both the left center-right and the right generally agree should be taken out back and shot.


Perhaps that's why the Republicans haven't let the agency have a new permanent director ever since they decreed that the Senate must approve of any permanent director?

/Another thing that plays right into Republican hands.
//Republican: Someone who says government is bad, then gets elected and proves himself right.
2013-03-30 08:51:30 PM
1 votes:

vicioushobbit: Lionel Mandrake: vicioushobbit: Dimensio: xanadian: So, why did they confiscate all his guns?  Is there a legal limit to the number of firearms you can own?  Or is this just YET AGAIN another over-reach of federal authority?

People wonder why the "gun nuts" go all apeshiat at the mention of gun control.

According to the article, "The idea at one of the locations was to take firearms, but they did not do that,". Thus the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives considered confiscating legally possessed firearms, but ultimately agents did not do so. I am certain that absolutely no one posting in this discussion would have approved had firearms been confiscated despite the absence of any evidence of illegal activity on the premises.

Been reading through this thread for somebody to point out the obvious: ATF was ready to confinscate legal guns bc they felt there was "too many."

If they think there should be a limit in guns, maybe they should try to pass a law limiting the number of legally owned guns? Oh. Right. Because they can't. They aren't a legislative group.

/FARK the ATF

Do you always get this pissed off about things that don't happen?

Yes.

The ATF is basically saying "We could take his guns if we wanted to, because we think he had too many.  We chose not to...this time."

And that kind of thing from a non-elected government agency just pisses me off.


And if they did that do you think that would be the end of it?  The first judge who asked for an explanation and didn't get one would give the guy all his guns back, there would probably be a lawsuit and a shiatload of people would get fired.

Save your outrage for when something outrageous happens.
2013-03-30 08:51:15 PM
1 votes:
I'm beginning to understand why H.S.T. topped himself. 

"No more Games. No more Bombs. No more Walking. No more Fun . . . Relax -- This won't hurt."

The New Left depresses the shiate out of everyone but themselves.
2013-03-30 08:43:57 PM
1 votes:

Phoenix87ta: Lionel Mandrake: Phoenix87ta: I'm a filthy liberal and I'm not personally a fan of firearms, but even so...

Fark the ATF.  Follow the law just like the rest of us, assholes.

What law did they break?

As far as I can tell, they completely lacked any kind of probable cause for the raid, and while considering confiscating his legal weapons because there were "too many" isn't against the law because they didn't actually DO it, it's still particularly troubling that they 1) considered it, and 2) quite happily announced that they were considering it, as if it were perfectly acceptable.

Basically, the ATF has repeatedly demonstrated their incompetence and their willingness to do whatever the fark they want.  That bothers me.


So you're saying that 40+ agents of the ATF, FBI, and GBI did all this without a warrant?  You'd think someone would mention something like that.

I would like to hear more about why they "considered it," but I'm sure they were considering what - if any - laws might apply, and apparently concluded that none did, so they didn't take anything.  To me this sounds like the law worked pretty well, and nobody stepped over any lines.

Sop, again, what law did they break?

People here are getting all worked up over something that didn't happen!  WTF??
2013-03-30 08:18:03 PM
1 votes:
The guy buying lots of Tannerite AND DOCUMENTING ITS USE IN HIT VIDEOS isn't secretly building a stockpile for dangerous purposes.

And double standard time. Discovery and Hearst Communications have blatantly commercial shows that feature people shooting tannerite targets of larger than average size. Lawsuit to the max.
2013-03-30 08:13:30 PM
1 votes:

vicioushobbit: Dimensio: xanadian: So, why did they confiscate all his guns?  Is there a legal limit to the number of firearms you can own?  Or is this just YET AGAIN another over-reach of federal authority?

People wonder why the "gun nuts" go all apeshiat at the mention of gun control.

According to the article, "The idea at one of the locations was to take firearms, but they did not do that,". Thus the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives considered confiscating legally possessed firearms, but ultimately agents did not do so. I am certain that absolutely no one posting in this discussion would have approved had firearms been confiscated despite the absence of any evidence of illegal activity on the premises.

Been reading through this thread for somebody to point out the obvious: ATF was ready to confinscate legal guns bc they felt there was "too many."

If they think there should be a limit in guns, maybe they should try to pass a law limiting the number of legally owned guns? Oh. Right. Because they can't. They aren't a legislative group.

/FARK the ATF


Do you always get this pissed off about things that don't happen?
2013-03-30 07:58:19 PM
1 votes:

Dimensio: xanadian: So, why did they confiscate all his guns?  Is there a legal limit to the number of firearms you can own?  Or is this just YET AGAIN another over-reach of federal authority?

People wonder why the "gun nuts" go all apeshiat at the mention of gun control.

According to the article, "The idea at one of the locations was to take firearms, but they did not do that,". Thus the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives considered confiscating legally possessed firearms, but ultimately agents did not do so. I am certain that absolutely no one posting in this discussion would have approved had firearms been confiscated despite the absence of any evidence of illegal activity on the premises.


Been reading through this thread for somebody to point out the obvious: ATF was ready to confinscate legal guns bc they felt there was "too many."

If they think there should be a limit in guns, maybe they should try to pass a law limiting the number of legally owned guns? Oh. Right. Because they can't. They aren't a legislative group.

/FARK the ATF
2013-03-30 07:55:42 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick: Ed Grubermann: PsiChick: /Haven't seen the vids so I can't make that call.

Well, maybe you should.

/Knowing, it's half the battle to not looking like an ass.

There's a finite amount of time I am willing to spend caring about things on Fark.


You care enough to post
2013-03-30 07:48:36 PM
1 votes:

Ed Grubermann: PsiChick: /Haven't seen the vids so I can't make that call.

Well, maybe you should.

/Knowing, it's half the battle to not looking like an ass.


There's a finite amount of time I am willing to spend caring about things on Fark.
2013-03-30 07:47:10 PM
1 votes:
In beofore if only the republicans would confirm a head to the ATF this would never happen....

odds are it would happen on a much much grander scale considering the nominees all have strong anti 2nd amendment opinions and are jack booted leftists......


Now pick up that can citizen.........
2013-03-30 07:38:40 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick: /Haven't seen the vids so I can't make that call.


Well, maybe you should.

/Knowing, it's half the battle to not looking like an ass.
2013-03-30 07:36:23 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: PsiChick: I didn't. That changes it a lot.

Not really. A local sheriff could have done this with a warrant. They didn't need dozens of federal agents if that was the case.


Depends. Is this guy a rabid Tea Party\Freeper type? I'd go in with feds. Polite-as-fark feds, but they'd be in full-blown body armor in case someone's sniping. If not, yeah, sure.

/Haven't seen the vids so I can't make that call.
2013-03-30 07:30:37 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick: I didn't. That changes it a lot.


Not really. A local sheriff could have done this with a warrant. They didn't need dozens of federal agents if that was the case.
2013-03-30 07:28:23 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?

Because he identifies what he's doing in each of his videos -- for example, "AK-47 + Tannerite!"

And people always tell the truth on the internet.


Have you watched any of his videos? He's very up front with what he's using. He's even declined people's requests because they would be illegal. He's not a terrorist and he's not stupid.
2013-03-30 07:25:21 PM
1 votes:

IoSaturnalia: Did nobody make it down to the last two paragraphs?

The raids on the Myers' properties were staged as part of an investigation into the death of 32-year-old Keith Richard Ratliff, who was found dead on January 3. Ratliff and the Myers family were co-owners of gun producer FPS Industries; Ratliff was also executive producer of the FPSRussia channel, acquiring or creating rare weapons for the show.
Ratliff was killed by a single bullet to the head. Though a large number of firearms were found at Ratliff's business premises, the murder weapon was not among them. The investigation continues, and so far no names of possible suspects or persons of interest have been revealed.

There's more to it than the man just hassling some youtube redneck who likes making things go boom.


I didn't. That changes it a lot.

/That was a crap article, I couldn't make heads or tails of it.
//Damnit, journalists.
2013-03-30 07:23:20 PM
1 votes:

Giltric: cameroncrazy1984: It's also impossible to have any other kind of explosive when you possess Tannerite. Literally impossible. That's just science.

So you believe in people having to prove their innocence instead of the government proving that person is guilty?


Everyone knows that's a basic American principle: Guilty until proven innocent. If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear. We shouldn't bother with pesky things like "probable cause" when there is a possibility that someone could be doing something illegal, even when there is no evidence what-so-ever to suggest they are. Just send in the police to do a raid so we know for sure. Anyone who doesn't believe that is just a terrorist sympathizer!
2013-03-30 07:16:58 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: It's also impossible to have any other kind of explosive when you possess Tannerite. Literally impossible. That's just science.


So you believe in people having to prove their innocence instead of the government proving that person is guilty?
2013-03-30 07:08:22 PM
1 votes:

odinsposse: Robots are Strong: Did the video contain footage of a warehouse full of plants that look like pot? And was the camera man found dead 3 months ago?

Irrelevant, since neither the DEA nor the ATF investigate murders. Also I typed up a few tries but I can't stretch the analogy to cover "the cameraman was shot 3 months ago so why did the ATF need to search for illegal explosives?"


Yeah, law enforcement agencies never collaborate when one of their areas of expertise are needed... sheesh.
2013-03-30 06:58:56 PM
1 votes:

odinsposse: cameroncrazy1984: Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?

Because he identifies what he's doing in each of his videos -- for example, "AK-47 + Tannerite!"

Oh, so he can't say it's Tannerite if it's really TNT, right? That's like, impossible to do!

*facepalm*

Let's use an analogy. A guy posts videos on Youtube about growing a garden indoors. The DEA raids him to see if he is growing weed. You are basically saying that's okay because he certainly could be growing weed so they should kick down his door just in case.


Did the video contain footage of a warehouse full of plants that look like pot? And was the camera man found dead 3 months ago?
2013-03-30 06:54:08 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?

Because he identifies what he's doing in each of his videos -- for example, "AK-47 + Tannerite!"

Oh, so he can't say it's Tannerite if it's really TNT, right? That's like, impossible to do!


Today, we're using Tannerite!

Here's an explosion that learned ATF specialists should recognize as consistent with Tannerite!

Here's an ATF raid just to make sure I didn't go out of my way to put an illegal explosive in place, then tell you it's Tannerite, just to trick you! Because illegal explosives are so much more easily obtained than Tannerite, or something.
2013-03-30 06:54:08 PM
1 votes:

odinsposse: cameroncrazy1984: Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?

Because he identifies what he's doing in each of his videos -- for example, "AK-47 + Tannerite!"

Oh, so he can't say it's Tannerite if it's really TNT, right? That's like, impossible to do!

*facepalm*

Let's use an analogy. A guy posts videos on Youtube about growing a garden indoors. The DEA raids him to see if he is growing weed. You are basically saying that's okay because he certainly could be growing weed so they should kick down his door just in case.


Was the gardener's business partner found murdered?
2013-03-30 06:53:48 PM
1 votes:

cman: I am gonna wait for the "Better safe than sorry" portion of the Right to come out and defend ATF actions


Let me translate what you just said so everyone can understand it...

cman: "I have no clue what the hell I'm talking about and make incorrect assumptions about how other people think... Because it's so much easier than actually being honest about it."

FPS Russia runs a guns and explosions channel... Who the blinking hell do you think watches stuff like that? Could it be... right wingers who like guns? Nope, can't be, that makes too much damn sense to your poor little mind.

You are such an idiot.
2013-03-30 06:51:36 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?

Because he identifies what he's doing in each of his videos -- for example, "AK-47 + Tannerite!"

Oh, so he can't say it's Tannerite if it's really TNT, right? That's like, impossible to do!


Different materials that have different properties that would have shown on the video.

Stop using what you don't know as a debate tactic.
2013-03-30 06:47:29 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?

Because he identifies what he's doing in each of his videos -- for example, "AK-47 + Tannerite!"


Oh, so he can't say it's Tannerite if it's really TNT, right? That's like, impossible to do!
2013-03-30 06:45:39 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?


Because he identifies what he's doing in each of his videos -- for example, "AK-47 + Tannerite!"
2013-03-30 06:45:38 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: And? How would we have known that if they didn't investigate it?

Oo. How do I know you don't have an Amber Alert child chained up in your basement? We'd better investigate, just to make sure.

Well for one, I didn't post any YouTube videos of something that could be illegal.

I mean, if you posted a video with your kid, how do we know it's your kid? It could be a stolen kid.

Just like here -- he posted videos of himself doing things with legal products, but you seem to think it's okay to raid him just to make him prove they were all legal, because guns go "bang" and bad guys use them in Bruce Willis movies.


Or because some explosives are illegal and, you know, we need to make sure that people aren't just going around blowing up illegal explosives.

I guess you trust everything that people say on the internet? This guy said it was legal stuff, so that's good enough for the ATF, right?
2013-03-30 06:43:17 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Dr. Goldshnoz: odinsposse: The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.

The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.

The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.

The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.

This is the problem here, folks.

How did they know it was legal prior to investigating?


The guy probably said so right in the video!  And if you can't trust some internet guy with an explosives fetish, who can you trust?
2013-03-30 06:37:32 PM
1 votes:

Corvus: Lenny_da_Hog: Corvus: So now people in this thread believe that we can't regulate explosives anymore?

That everything is a "second amendment right"? A tank, an RPG and a nuke is ok too.

Sorry guys we have munition laws on explosives we always have.

Sorry, if there was anything that was improper and didn't comply with regulations, they would have seized it and pressed charges.

Did you read the article? There wasn't any explosives there. There was a video but they weren't there when they raided his place.

Read the article next time.


Maybe you should read the article. To wit:

As was apparent in FPSRussia's videos, Myers had used Tannerite - a patented binary explosive traditionally used as a target for firearms practice, because hitting a target is accompanied by a resulting boom. Tannerite is famous for its exceptional stability and can only explode when directly hit by a bullet - even striking it with a hammer won't blow it up.

The extensive use of this explosive for purposes other than shooting practice possibly put federal agents on alert for any kind of explosive that would have meant FPSRussia's producers were in violation of federal law.

 So
Tannerite is not illegal to posses or detonate. The ATF was fishing for other explosives that would be illegal but didn't find any. The videos didn't show any illegal activity but resulted in an ATF raid anyway.
2013-03-30 06:37:20 PM
1 votes:

xanadian: So, why did they confiscate all his guns?


They didn't. They considered it, then backed off.
2013-03-30 06:36:47 PM
1 votes:
They've only murdered one guy in that compound, why would law enforcement be interested?
2013-03-30 06:36:11 PM
1 votes:
So, why did they confiscate all his guns?  Is there a legal limit to the number of firearms you can own?  Or is this just YET AGAIN another over-reach of federal authority?

People wonder why the "gun nuts" go all apeshiat at the mention of gun control.
2013-03-30 06:35:18 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: cameroncrazy1984: And? How would we have known that if they didn't investigate it?

Oo. How do I know you don't have an Amber Alert child chained up in your basement? We'd better investigate, just to make sure.


Well for one, I didn't post any YouTube videos of something that could be illegal.
2013-03-30 06:29:02 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: And? How would we have known that if they didn't investigate it?


Oo. How do I know you don't have an Amber Alert child chained up in your basement? We'd better investigate, just to make sure.
2013-03-30 06:28:03 PM
1 votes:
Satanic_Hamster: ...the Fed'shiat list:

That so works, filterpwnage and all.

/Wanders off to go cue up some classic L7
2013-03-30 06:27:51 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: Corvus: So now people in this thread believe that we can't regulate explosives anymore?

That everything is a "second amendment right"? A tank, an RPG and a nuke is ok too.

Sorry guys we have munition laws on explosives we always have.

Sorry, if there was anything that was improper and didn't comply with regulations, they would have seized it and pressed charges.


So they can't go in and look at things to see if they're illegal unless they somehow already know that they're illegal?

That makes sense...
2013-03-30 06:26:42 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: Corvus: So now people in this thread believe that we can't regulate explosives anymore?

That everything is a "second amendment right"? A tank, an RPG and a nuke is ok too.

Sorry guys we have munition laws on explosives we always have.

Sorry, if there was anything that was improper and didn't comply with regulations, they would have seized it and pressed charges.


Did you read the article? There wasn't any explosives there. There was a video but they weren't there when they raided his place.

Read the article next time.
2013-03-30 06:25:31 PM
1 votes:

JerkyMeat: America is a prison


Right the definition of being in a prison is you can't everyone can't just use explosives however they want. That's the same farking thing.
2013-03-30 06:25:03 PM
1 votes:

Corvus: So now people in this thread believe that we can't regulate explosives anymore?

That everything is a "second amendment right"? A tank, an RPG and a nuke is ok too.

Sorry guys we have munition laws on explosives we always have.


Sorry, if there was anything that was improper and didn't comply with regulations, they would have seized it and pressed charges.
2013-03-30 06:24:15 PM
1 votes:

quatchi: The ATF suspected Kyle Myers, the iconic 26-year-old host of FPSRussia, of using explosives "with malicious intent,"

Blowing up shiat purely for the lulz is the new definition of "malicious" now? Oh, ffs.

I would suggest that Kyle's explosion vids are the least malicious explosions of all time.

/Of all time!


Most explosives you need a permit for lulz or not.
2013-03-30 06:23:23 PM
1 votes:
So now people in this thread believe that we can't regulate explosives anymore?

That everything is a "second amendment right"? A tank, an RPG and a nuke is ok too.

Sorry guys we have munition laws on explosives we always have.
2013-03-30 06:19:39 PM
1 votes:

IoSaturnalia: Did nobody make it down to the last two paragraphs?

The raids on the Myers' properties were staged as part of an investigation into the death of 32-year-old Keith Richard Ratliff, who was found dead on January 3. Ratliff and the Myers family were co-owners of gun producer FPS Industries; Ratliff was also executive producer of the FPSRussia channel, acquiring or creating rare weapons for the show.
Ratliff was killed by a single bullet to the head. Though a large number of firearms were found at Ratliff's business premises, the murder weapon was not among them. The investigation continues, and so far no names of possible suspects or persons of interest have been revealed.

There's more to it than the man just hassling some youtube redneck who likes making things go boom.




I'll bet you an internet that there probably isn't.

Harassing people is the ATF's stock and trade. Specifically, harassing people who aren't known criminals and won't be prone to shooting back. The agency doesn't want another Ruby Ridge or Waco, it only needs names to fill out its quota.
My conspiracy theory says they only raided him more because he was making his presence known on youtube.
They were hoping for some missing paperwork so they could score a positive headline.
2013-03-30 06:19:34 PM
1 votes:

SN1987a goes boom: Yeah, sounds like they used the guns/explosives as a pretense to search for a murder weapon.


Considering he has a wide collection of various types of guns, you'd think they would've grabbed one with the right caliber for ballistics testing if that had been the only reason. Also, BATF isn't really into murder investigations -- that's out of their realm.

It seems more like they used the local sheriffs to justify it, and brought BATF in just to see what they could find. Fishing.
2013-03-30 06:03:01 PM
1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: Lionel Mandrake: The ATF looked into some weird guy with an explosives fetish?

OMFG!!1!  IT'S THE GODDAM FOURTH REICH!!!!


I'd be worried if they weren't looking into guys like that.

Because ATF should totally kick in everyone's door to look in on them just to be sure.


Baseless no-knock raids are okay when they happen to people I don't like.
2013-03-30 06:00:27 PM
1 votes:

Snapper Carr: cman: I am gonna wait for the "Better safe than sorry" portion of the Right to come out and defend ATF actions

Actually the ATF is one of the few agencies that both the left and the right generally agree should be taken out to the country and allowed to spend the rest of their days living comfortably on a nice farm with grass and lots of space to run around and stuff.


FTFY
2013-03-30 05:58:40 PM
1 votes:

Snapper Carr: cman: I am gonna wait for the "Better safe than sorry" portion of the Right to come out and defend ATF actions

Actually the ATF is one of the few agencies that both the left and the right generally agree should be taken out back and shot*.



*Metaphorically speaking
//please don't break down my door in the middle of the night, I'm not threatening LEO's
2013-03-30 05:07:38 PM
1 votes:
America is a prison
 
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