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(WFAA Fort Worth)   Traditional Catholics are outraged that Pope Francis is returning the church to traditional Christianity   (wfaa.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Pope Francis, conservative Catholics, Christianity, traditional Christianity, Vatican II, liturgy, Catholic Church, church law  
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15566 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Mar 2013 at 3:25 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-30 07:07:37 PM  
So, the Pope is supposed to be Jesus' representative on Earth, yes? Do these "traditionalists" really take it from the Bible that the Jesus written about there would want to be carried around in chairs and sit above people on a throne while wearing kingly costumes?
 
2013-03-30 07:10:57 PM  

ATRDCI: "The Pope could decide that all this power, all this wealth, this hierarchy of princes and bishops and archbishops and priests and monks and nuns could be sent out in the world with money and art treasures, to put them back in the countries that they once raped and violated, they could give that money away, and they could concentrate on the apparent essence of their belief, and then, I would stand here and say the Catholic Church may well be a force for good in the world, but until that day, it is not.

"

Doing evil or failing to do all the good you can does not negate the good that you do.  There is a more pertinent reason for the Church to divest itself of worldly trappings.

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."  Matt 19:24
 
2013-03-30 07:13:29 PM  

Valiente: Most Christians would snub Jesus for the homeless religious nut and provocateur he was, the filthy beggar.


Until they learned that he could get them out of Hell for free.
 
2013-03-30 07:24:12 PM  
Pope to traditionalists kvetching about church law:

global.fncstatic.com
 
2013-03-30 07:26:08 PM  

lelio: "Before liberals and traditionalists both have a spittle-flecked nutty, each for their own reasons, try to figure out what he is trying to do," Zuhlsdorf wrote in a conciliatory piece.


Spittle flecked nutty? Is that some new choir boy thing?


Well I don't know about you, but "spittle-flecked nutty" is the new name of my band.
 
2013-03-30 07:33:18 PM  
But I don't want to eat fish on Friday.
 
2013-03-30 07:39:08 PM  

Dahnkster: pope back and forth, forever


Came for this.

/Though I didn't realize it when I clicked the link
//Was a lost sole searching blindly for satisfaction
///Now that I've heard the true word, I could leave happy
////Staying for more satisfaction anyway
 
2013-03-30 07:42:42 PM  
*raised eyebrows*
*shiat-eating grin*

God forbid the Pope act Christ-like.
Still, the man's just started office and will likely be there for a good long time. Lets see where he takes it.
 
2013-03-30 07:43:30 PM  

PonceAlyosha: LtDarkstar: A previous boss of mine who owned a very small company (of 3-4 employees or so) was one of these uber-traditional-Catholics who was all about the ceremony. He did weird stuff around the office and even wrote with chalk above the doors in some obscure-ceremony he insisted he do to protect the office from "sin".

Catholicism is weird in that is the only form of Christianity that allows for folk magic like that, and even some hermeticism. Of course if you told your boss he was doing a magical spell, he'd look at you like YOU were the crazy one.



I guess you have mised out on the castng out of demons, casting out of gay demons, snake handling, speaking in tongues, anti-witch crussaders etc. that have spoken in protestant churche in America. There was even that gu who spoke at Palin's church. And what is praying but the oldest form of folk magic, asking a spirit to intercede in your life?
 
2013-03-30 07:46:08 PM  

orbister: ariseatex: He's a different kind of pope.

There's been an argument.
Over Vatican II?


OK, I have 2 responses:

1. I'll never get over Vatican II. or
b. Vatican II! What is it!?
 
2013-03-30 07:48:09 PM  
So Francis isn't as fabulous as Benedict?
 
2013-03-30 08:00:14 PM  
zamboni:
But as a hypothetical, I asked, what if the new pope comes in and starts ruffling the cardinal's feathers? (pun semi-intentional) What if he proposes massive changes. He's the pope... he can do that. What if this filters down and a significant portion of the church hierarchy is uncomfortable with these changes? What if the people themselves don't like the changes?

Now it looks like Francis has some new ideas. What if they get even more out of line with the mainstream?


Wasn't there some vision/revelation/something where some girls were given, amongst other things, a list of all of the Popes who would ever be... and JPII was the second-to-last one?

Curiouser and curiouser.
 
2013-03-30 08:08:33 PM  

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


The *Gospels* pretty much say all that.  The letters of Paul, not so much.
 
2013-03-30 08:10:21 PM  
Until this asshole turns over financial records and child molesters to the police en masse, he's no better than the nazi that just quit. This footwashing and chait nonsense is just window dressing.
 
2013-03-30 08:10:23 PM  
These traditionalists need to think outside the box.  Don't like the new Pope?  Hold your own conclave and declared that you're the new Pope.

http://popemichaelfilm.com/

/Seriously, I've done a lot of research on the sedevacantists, the antipopes, and conclavists; they take craziness to a whole new level.
 
2013-03-30 08:11:31 PM  

Mister Peejay: zamboni:
But as a hypothetical, I asked, what if the new pope comes in and starts ruffling the cardinal's feathers? (pun semi-intentional) What if he proposes massive changes. He's the pope... he can do that. What if this filters down and a significant portion of the church hierarchy is uncomfortable with these changes? What if the people themselves don't like the changes?

Now it looks like Francis has some new ideas. What if they get even more out of line with the mainstream?

Wasn't there some vision/revelation/something where some girls were given, amongst other things, a list of all of the Popes who would ever be... and JPII was the second-to-last one?

Curiouser and curiouser.


Fatima. And, no. That was about some other things, although there is a bishop and blood and angels and stuff in the third secret. You're thinking of the Prophecy of the Popes (or St. Malachy), which is pretty likely a hoax. Anyhow, the Prophecy of the Popes does talk about a last Pope, but people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last, even though AFAIK there hasn't been gaps when they try to match up the descriptions with actual Popes. *shrug*
 
2013-03-30 08:18:09 PM  

xanadian: enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

To put a finer point on it:  the Gospels pretty much say that.  The rest of it is either "control of the masses" kind of dreck or a religious take on historical events.




If the bible were only the gospels, Christianity would be way more appealing.

No Genesis to provide fuel for the Creationists.
No Leviticus to provide fuel for the gay-bashers and misogynists.
No more St. Paul to do likewise.
No more Revelation to give fuel to the doomsday cults.

Just Jesus an his message, without all the other crap.
 
2013-03-30 08:52:57 PM  
I suspect that "traditional" Catholics like the Pope to be traditional so they don't have to be. It's like the relationship between Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox Jews, and the really all-out religious Jews who live on welfare, have enormous families and practice a religion so severely that they impress everybody else who is a little or a lot less strict but not so much that any of them want to be them.

They're sort of the icing on the cake of religion. And Saint Peter's Basilica is one Hell of a gorgeous cake decoration. Even gay atheist Protestants and Jews are amazed at he outrageous scale of the thing.

But nobody wants the Pope sticking his nose into their own affairs (sexual and marital especially).

You're the Pope of Rome, they seem to think, but you're not the Pope of me.

I always say that the unofficial religion of Canada is Lapsed Catholicism. That's pretty much true of the world. If it were to have a semi-official religion, Lapsed Catholicism would be just grand. It doesn't hurt any one much--certainly not as much as the converts to newer and shakier faiths do, and it takes its own dogma lightly, wearing it on its sleave, not plunging its daggers into your heart in the name of blood-thirsty orthodoxy.

Between Bad Jews and Bad Roman Catholics there is not much to choose, but Thank God for both of them. Not that there's anything wrong with genteel, warm water Protestants or others of the ilk. It's the great masses of people who don't take their religion all that seriously who makes it possible for all of us to survive those who take it way too seriously--and way out of the mainstream into looney psycho territory.
 
2013-03-30 09:11:24 PM  

rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.


He's a different kind of Pope.
 
2013-03-30 09:17:57 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I'll join the dirty papists if they'll let me be an inquisitor.


No one would expect that.
 
2013-03-30 09:56:10 PM  
I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I think the Church--be it Catholic or Protestant--would do well to get back to addressing poverty and related social issues more directly and clearly (but excluding divisive hot-button politics like abortion and gay marriage,etc.). On the other, I am very traditional when it comes to church music. I like the liturgical worship traditions. I can understand a person wanting a Latin Mass--provided you understand what the rituals mean, which does not have to be the same as understanding Latin--but vernacular worship is mighty important too. I don't see why you can't have one of each.
 
2013-03-30 09:57:09 PM  
So wait. They get a pope that acts more like how Jesus acted when he was here and the Pharisees get all mad and huffy.

Nice to see things haven't changed in 2000 years.
 
2013-03-30 09:58:21 PM  

Doc Daneeka: xanadian: enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

To put a finer point on it:  the Gospels pretty much say that.  The rest of it is either "control of the masses" kind of dreck or a religious take on historical events.

If the bible were only the gospels, Christianity would be way more appealing.

No Genesis to provide fuel for the Creationists.
No Leviticus to provide fuel for the gay-bashers and misogynists.
No more St. Paul to do likewise.
No more Revelation to give fuel to the doomsday cults.

Just Jesus an his message, without all the other crap.


It's pretty much how I've tried to live my whole life.
 
2013-03-30 10:16:43 PM  

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


Well, that and don't be gay
 
2013-03-30 10:31:14 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Francis' decision to disregard church law and wash the feet of two girls - a Serbian Muslim and an Italian Catholic - during a Holy Thursday ritual has become something of the final straw, evidence that Francis has little or no interest in one of the key priorities of Benedict's papacy: reviving the pre-Vatican II traditions of the Catholic Church.

Thank God! Does this mean we'll stop doing stupid BS like reword the Catholic liturgy to make it even sound less sense than it did before?


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-30 10:32:05 PM  
Headline: Traditional Catholics are outraged ...

*sigh* No, we're not. The new pope is loving and caring. Funny how that bugs so many people.
 
2013-03-30 10:46:05 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The traditionalists need to get the bugs out of their butts.  Vatican II was one of the few sensible things the church did over the last 100 years.  The idea that the decline of the church can be blamed on modernizing is moronic, it's the fusty insistence on Latin and outdated traditions that was killing them.  Making the church less accessible to the average churchgoer was NOT helping, Benedict had his head way up his own ass.


The lack of Latin Mass as a driving force in the decline of the church is what stuck out for me the most.  I just can't find the logical process that could lead to this conclusion. If their best idea is to babble at people for an hour in a dead language that no one will understand, jam a cracker in your face, give you a sip of wine and send you on your way then they were on a road to ruin.  At least if they use the vernacular, people will hear the message.
 
2013-03-30 10:53:38 PM  
The trads do make one interesting point about cultural relativism. Thats not a game the church needs to play... during service. Homilies shouldn't be about whats in the news but about the weeks gospel and readings.
 
2013-03-30 10:57:33 PM  

Jubilation T. Cornpone: Headline: Traditional Catholics are outraged ...

*sigh* No, we're not. The new pope is loving and caring. Funny how that bugs so many people.


You may not be but some are. My parent's friends are prime examples, if there is such a thing as fundamentalist, fire and brimstone catholics that is what they are. In an organization of 1.2 billion peope it is not hard to find those that are dissatisfied especially as the dissatisfied ones will speak up and let the world know they are quite dissatisfied and the media loves controversy.
 
2013-03-30 11:04:38 PM  

likeahawk: The trads do make one interesting point about cultural relativism. Thats not a game the church needs to play... during service. Homilies shouldn't be about whats in the news but about the weeks gospel and readings.


Should they not make Homilies relevant to what is going on in the world? If only to show how the Bible is still a viable institution of society?  I know they put out a schedule of sorts but tying those into the events of the day should be crucial.  It is possible that I am misunderstanding your post though.
 
2013-03-30 11:26:54 PM  
dailyatheistquote.com
 
2013-03-30 11:35:50 PM  
Pope Troll the First.
 
2013-03-30 11:54:57 PM  

Dahnkster: Yesterday, during Good Friday prayers he sent greetings and reached out in friendship by offering well-wishes to "our Muslims brothers and sisters". Christian indeed!


I could like this new Pope.
 
2013-03-30 11:55:24 PM  

angrycrank: Pope Troll the First.


I very much doubt that. The guy who dragged up a predecessor's corpse to put it on trial might qualify...
 
2013-03-30 11:56:06 PM  

angrycrank: Pope Troll the First.


Almost seems like it.... He seems big in humility and giving up the gold so I expect him to live about two more weeks.. He could do so much good but he will not have a chance.
 
2013-03-31 12:14:51 AM  

MacWizard: likeahawk: "People naturally imitate their leader. That's the whole point behind Jesus washing the disciples' feet. He was explicitly and intentionally setting an example for them," he said. "Pope Francis knows that he is setting an example."

"If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.

God humbled himself before man so that men would know to do the same. But God forbid Man humble himself before a woman.....

There were two phrases in the article that amused me. The first was "spittle flecked nutty," which has already been covered. The other was "militant humility."


New Pope has been criticized for humble-bragging before by his colleagues who look shiatty in comparison.
 
2013-03-31 12:17:17 AM  

chumboobler: angrycrank: Pope Troll the First.

Almost seems like it.... He seems big in humility and giving up the gold so I expect him to live about two more weeks.. He could do so much good but he will not have a chance.


What do you mean 'giving up the gold'?  Did he melt down his throne and give it away?
 
2013-03-31 12:52:29 AM  
bad people are bad

/YAWN
 
2013-03-31 01:12:29 AM  
The "traditional pomp [of] the papacy" is the major reason we got Cathars, Waldensians, Lollards, Hussites and Girolamo Savonarola.  And all of those were *before* Martin Luther.
 
2013-03-31 01:26:33 AM  

Aidan: people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last


Except for the people who actually know what "penultimate" means. But then, ninety percent of organized religion is rules-lawyering and equivocating on a level that makes the `spergiest of D&D players look like an amateur.

The Rapture was supposed to happen during the lifetimes of the Apostles. But it'll be along any day now.

Any day.
 
2013-03-31 01:49:41 AM  

Anonymous Bosch: Aidan: people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last

Except for the people who actually know what "penultimate" means.


I know what it means, and that's why I LOL'ed.
 
2013-03-31 02:00:25 AM  

Anonymous Bosch: Aidan: people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last

Except for the people who actually know what "penultimate" means. But then, ninety percent of organized religion is rules-lawyering and equivocating on a level that makes the `spergiest of D&D players look like an amateur.

The Rapture was supposed to happen during the lifetimes of the Apostles. But it'll be along any day now.

Any day.


Hm? Penultimate. Next to last. What'd you think I meant? I suppose we could argue about the Prophecy of Popes but I found it pretty damn boring, especially when the Vatican (?) claims there's space between the Popes for extra Popes, even though they've never actually used that idea before. Meh.
 
2013-03-31 02:11:19 AM  

tzzhc4: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The ironic part is that pretty much sums up Christ's teachings while on Earth. The other stuff before and after is all just tacked on bullcrap from other people.

[nhne-pulse.org image 850x570]



Despite the fact that I'm a hellbound heathen, I truly love that man...a far better ambassador for Christianity than most of the clergy.
 
2013-03-31 02:12:04 AM  
He's being exactly like Jesus and they're being exactly like the Pharisees and they don't even see the irony.  Hey guys, nobody in all of human history did more to elevate the status of women than Jesus Christ.
 
2013-03-31 02:19:22 AM  
A pedicure from the Pope?  When I was an altar boy, we used to get facials from the priests.
 
2013-03-31 02:30:28 AM  

Aidan: Anonymous Bosch: Aidan: people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last

Except for the people who actually know what "penultimate" means. But then, ninety percent of organized religion is rules-lawyering and equivocating on a level that makes the `spergiest of D&D players look like an amateur.

The Rapture was supposed to happen during the lifetimes of the Apostles. But it'll be along any day now.

Any day.

Hm? Penultimate. Next to last. What'd you think I meant? I suppose we could argue about the Prophecy of Popes but I found it pretty damn boring, especially when the Vatican (?) claims there's space between the Popes for extra Popes, even though they've never actually used that idea before. Meh.


 Is the list of Popes triple-spaced?
 
2013-03-31 02:54:29 AM  

Mort_Q: enry: The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

Yes, in some parts. In others it contradicts itself.  Once a war god, always a war god.


Yeah but we're supposed to ignore most of Matthew.  Aka "the grumpy one".   Actually I may be mixing up the names, it's late and I don't care.

/insomnia!

Joking aside, the New Testament *is* interesting if you can extricate it from it's irritating, hateful worshippers.  The story of a cult leader who preached peace and love and communalism, and reading in-between the lines.  Like when one of his flock tried to keep some money for his family instead of giving it all to Pappa Bear JC and "god" killed him, and then later his wife for the same thing.  Or the historical context of how the Jews (any tribe, really) didn't really consider people outside their tribe as full persons.  It was just how folk ROLLED back then, but adding that context gives new and interesting meaning to a lot of the stories.

It's just I prefer stories with plasma cannons.
 
2013-03-31 02:54:47 AM  

djkutch: There is great power in symbolism. This symbolism equates women as equals. Insert Ghandi quote here.


Well when Jesus arose who was the first person he met?

There you go...
 
2013-03-31 03:29:57 AM  
From previous fark thread
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-31 08:35:42 AM  

tortilla burger: The God of the Old Testament is vengeful, petty, and cruel - the God of the New Testament seems like a much cooler guy.


You know why? Because God finally had sex again, thanks to that little hussy Maria. That high didn't last long though, in Revelation he's pretty much back to grumpy.
 
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