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(WFAA Fort Worth)   Traditional Catholics are outraged that Pope Francis is returning the church to traditional Christianity   (wfaa.com) divider line 206
    More: Obvious, Pope Francis, conservative Catholics, Christianity, traditional Christianity, Vatican II, liturgy, Catholic Church, church law  
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15534 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Mar 2013 at 3:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-30 11:44:50 AM
Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.
 
2013-03-30 11:54:31 AM
Oh goody! Does this mean we get to go on a new Crusade to take back the holy land?
 
2013-03-30 12:19:08 PM
Old Christianity: Jesus washes feet of homeless men

New Christianity: Pope washes feet of little girls.
(Cause you know, washing the feet of dirty men is gay and stuff)
 
2013-03-30 12:25:18 PM
"If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.

Look, just say, "girls have cooties" ok?
 
2013-03-30 12:26:24 PM
FTA:  Francis has little or no interest in one of the key priorities of Benedict's papacy: reviving the pre-Vatican II traditions of the Catholic Church. ...Virtually everything he has done since being elected pope, every gesture, every decision, has rankled traditionalists in one way or another.

Good.
 
2013-03-30 12:27:46 PM

markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.


The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.
 
2013-03-30 12:27:52 PM

Steve Zodiac: Oh goody! Does this mean we get to go on a new Crusade to take back the holy land?


I thought we already were.

/not catholic.
 
2013-03-30 12:30:55 PM

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


So the problem is with the Christians themselves?
 
2013-03-30 12:31:55 PM
"If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.
In the face of the pope doing that very thing, Peters and many conservative and traditionalist commentators have found themselves trying to put the best face on a situation they clearly don't like yet can't do much about lest they be openly voicing dissent with the pope.
By Thursday evening, Peters was saying that Francis had merely "disregarded" the law - not violated it.



Lulz.  Oh, you guys.
 
2013-03-30 01:08:59 PM

clancifer: enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

So the problem is with the Christians themselves?


Yep. :-(
 
2013-03-30 02:27:29 PM
Why is it so difficult for people to wash their own feet?  Are you really that inflexible?!
 
2013-03-30 02:36:43 PM
There is great power in symbolism. This symbolism equates women as equals. Insert Ghandi quote here.
 
2013-03-30 02:42:23 PM
I'll join the dirty papists if they'll let me be an inquisitor.
 
2013-03-30 02:55:11 PM
You'll get over it.
 
2013-03-30 02:57:29 PM

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


To put a finer point on it:  the Gospels pretty much say that.  The rest of it is either "control of the masses" kind of dreck or a religious take on historical events.
 
2013-03-30 03:02:23 PM
Is "traditionalist" some weird Liturgical Latin word for "flaming asshole?"
 
2013-03-30 03:16:05 PM
Next thing you know, he'll be healing the sick on the Sabbath and be in the company of tax collectors.
 
2013-03-30 03:24:53 PM
"Treat things divine with marked respect - don't have anything to do with them."

Ambrose Bierce
 
2013-03-30 03:27:46 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Is "traditionalist" some weird Liturgical Latin word for "flaming asshole?"




traditionalist are those who suddenly realize that they are losing power.
 
2013-03-30 03:28:15 PM
We have a level 5 Poe's Law warning in effect.  Please remain calm and try not to take anything too seriously.
 
2013-03-30 03:31:47 PM

Relatively Obscure: By Thursday evening, Peters was saying that Francis had merely "disregarded" the law - not violated it.


Lulz.  Oh, you guys.


This is the entirety of theology - wordplay.
 
2013-03-30 03:32:32 PM
Francis' decision to disregard church law and wash the feet of two girls - a Serbian Muslim and an Italian Catholic - during a Holy Thursday ritual has become something of the final straw, evidence that Francis has little or no interest in one of the key priorities of Benedict's papacy: reviving the pre-Vatican II traditions of the Catholic Church.

Thank God! Does this mean we'll stop doing stupid BS like reword the Catholic liturgy to make it even sound less sense than it did before?
 
2013-03-30 03:34:31 PM
When do the heretic burnings begin again? That was when traditional meant something.
 
2013-03-30 03:35:26 PM
He's a different kind of pope, all together.
 
2013-03-30 03:36:27 PM

FloydA: FTA:  Francis has little or no interest in one of the key priorities of Benedict's papacy: reviving the pre-Vatican II traditions of the Catholic Church. ...Virtually everything he has done since being elected pope, every gesture, every decision, has rankled traditionalists in one way or another.

Good.


If he keeps this up we are all in for some good times....good times indeed.

Besides, those traditionalists were all form and no substance. The day after his election I happened to walk by the local chapter of Opus Dei and they had a big sign outside their store that read "Congratulations Pope Francis" and they had tacked that sign right above the sign that said "SALE. EVERYTHING 20% OFF." It seems so prophetic now.
 
2013-03-30 03:37:01 PM
Yesterday, during Good Friday prayers he sent greetings and reached out in friendship by offering well-wishes to "our Muslims brothers and sisters". Christian indeed!
 
2013-03-30 03:38:04 PM

Gifted Many Few: When do the heretic burnings begin again? That was when traditional meant something.


THIS, we could all use a good inquisition.
 
2013-03-30 03:38:36 PM
Well, enjoy this Pope while you can. Between the Curia and Opus Dei, he'd be better off cooking his own meals. Just saying.
 
2013-03-30 03:38:52 PM

markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..


A close second is the banking industry.
 
2013-03-30 03:39:07 PM

DamnYankees: Relatively Obscure: By Thursday evening, Peters was saying that Francis had merely "disregarded" the law - not violated it.


Lulz.  Oh, you guys.

This is the entirety of theology - wordplay.


Correct. Put the wordplay strikes deep than you know.
 
2013-03-30 03:39:10 PM
Is the Pope Catholic?
 
2013-03-30 03:39:54 PM
I guess they ran out of little boys to touch.
 
2013-03-30 03:39:58 PM
Good. I wonder when he's gonna start selling off that massive treasure trove the Vacatan is sitting on and giving to the poor.
 
2013-03-30 03:40:13 PM
Somebody somewhere's making an "I'm infallible, deal with it" ani-gif.
 
2013-03-30 03:40:40 PM

LessO2: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

A close second is the banking industry.


Third is the greeting card industry.
 
2013-03-30 03:41:42 PM
And to think: it was the traditionalist, Benedict-appointed, cardinals that elected, quite possibly, another John Paul II, or, at the very least, another Paul VI. Maybe some of those cardinals were trying to send their brethren a message about not living in the 15th century.
 
2013-03-30 03:43:09 PM

FloydA: Good.


dashburst.com

Agrees
 
2013-03-30 03:43:54 PM

LordOfThePings: Somebody somewhere's making an "I'm infallible, deal with it" ani-gif.


Came here to say this. Well not exactly this, but this in spirit.

If the Pope does it, it can't be wrong.
 
2013-03-30 03:44:10 PM

PonceAlyosha: LessO2: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

A close second is the banking industry.

Third is the greeting card industry.


No no no, religion and currancy have only been around since have been homo sapiens, the Military Industrial complex has been at it since we was homo habilis.
 
2013-03-30 03:44:23 PM
The Catholic Pope is not conservative enough for American protestants whose religion was started by protesting the Catholic church's conservative stance.
 
2013-03-30 03:44:56 PM

rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.


He's a different kind of pope.
 
2013-03-30 03:45:31 PM

OKObserver: Is the Pope Catholic?


Apparently not.
 
2013-03-30 03:45:33 PM
Why does anybody give a damn about this crap?
 
2013-03-30 03:45:41 PM

rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.


He's a different kind of pope.
 
2013-03-30 03:46:17 PM
So for Catholics, "pedophile" now means clean feet instead of boffed boys?
 
2013-03-30 03:46:27 PM

OtherLittleGuy: Next thing you know, he'll be healing the sick on the Sabbath and be in the company of tax collectors.


I'm quite sure that acting like that is NOT tolerated by these traditionalists.  They have a very long, proud heritage of being obsessed with Divine Law above all else, and ensuring that they hold everyone, even God Himself, to the absolute literal wording of the law.

It's fair to see that this tradition is much older than Christianity, the modern ultraconservative Catholics are just the newest version of this school of thought.

/Not Catholic
//Finding Pope Francis pretty cool so far though
 
2013-03-30 03:47:08 PM
"Before liberals and traditionalists both have a spittle-flecked nutty, each for their own reasons, try to figure out what he is trying to do," Zuhlsdorf wrote in a conciliatory piece.


Spittle flecked nutty? Is that some new choir boy thing?
 
2013-03-30 03:49:14 PM

markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.


A little bit of that money actually goes to feed the hungry, clothe the cold, build shelter for the homeless, provide educations, medical care, all sorts of kookie things.

-- and way to think the remarks of a few people in an article is good representation of a group that is over 1 billion strong, sillymitter.
 
2013-03-30 03:49:20 PM

ClavellBCMI: And to think: it was the traditionalist, Benedict-appointed, cardinals that elected, quite possibly, another John Paul II, or, at the very least, another Paul VI. Maybe some of those cardinals were trying to send their brethren a message about not living in the 15th century.


Maybe in electing Pope Francis, the Cardinals were trying to tell traditionalists to. . .lighten up.

images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-03-30 03:49:40 PM

lelio: "Before liberals and traditionalists both have a spittle-flecked nutty, each for their own reasons, try to figure out what he is trying to do," Zuhlsdorf wrote in a conciliatory piece.


Spittle flecked nutty? Is that some new choir boy thing?


Alert, alert, a spittle-flecked nutty has been removed without payment!
 
2013-03-30 03:50:57 PM
It appears that these traditions enshrined in liturgical law are like  the traditions enshrined in the U. S. Flag Code law, lacking penalties and unenforceable.  None the less, some people take them seriously.
 
2013-03-30 03:52:55 PM

NutWrench: "If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.

Look, just say, "girls have cooties" ok?


I get the feeling that anyone who calls women "females" really doesn't like women.

That's a word that should be reserved for veterinarians and biologists.
 
2013-03-30 03:57:02 PM
The traditionalists need to get the bugs out of their butts.  Vatican II was one of the few sensible things the church did over the last 100 years.  The idea that the decline of the church can be blamed on modernizing is moronic, it's the fusty insistence on Latin and outdated traditions that was killing them.  Making the church less accessible to the average churchgoer was NOT helping, Benedict had his head way up his own ass.
 
2013-03-30 03:58:32 PM

rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.


He's a different kind of pope.
 
2013-03-30 03:58:46 PM

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


Well, that and if you don't follow our religion, you are going to be punished for all eternity, even though you were created with the omniscient being already know if you were going to sin or not

/for all of the terrible things in the old testament, they don't punish the dead
//from what we have seen, I like the new pope and am hopeful that he can make even bigger changes, but he has a long way to go
 
2013-03-30 04:00:53 PM
What a "Traditional Catholic" may look like:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-30 04:02:40 PM

LDM90: NutWrench: "If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.

Look, just say, "girls have cooties" ok?

I get the feeling that anyone who calls women "females" really doesn't like women.

That's a word that should be reserved for veterinarians and biologists.


and Ferengi.
 
2013-03-30 04:03:23 PM
This heathen/Panthiest is liking this Pope.  He may save Christianity.  From themselves.
 
2013-03-30 04:05:56 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The traditionalists need to get the bugs out of their butts.  Vatican II was one of the few sensible things the church did over the last 100 years.  The idea that the decline of the church can be blamed on modernizing is moronic, it's the fusty insistence on Latin and outdated traditions that was killing them.  Making the church less accessible to the average churchgoer was NOT helping, Benedict had his head way up his own ass.


Also, it's religion, which doesn't exactly help.
 
2013-03-30 04:11:27 PM
I was having a discussion with a cow-orker about the time Benedict was resigning. I am basically a lapsed catholic... ok atheist(so I don't really have a dog in the hunt but I was answering questions.), he is not catholic.

I said that a pope doesn't simply resign... at least not in the last 600 years (and usually under some duress), they serve until they die. He asked why. One thing I said was because now there will be two popes (at least in some peoples minds.)

I said that I was sure there wouldn't be any problems and that the new pope would probably be just as traditional as Benedict and it'll all go smoothly.

But as a hypothetical, I asked, what if the new pope comes in and starts ruffling the cardinal's feathers? (pun semi-intentional) What if he proposes massive changes. He's the pope... he can do that. What if this filters down and a significant portion of the church hierarchy is uncomfortable with these changes? What if the people themselves don't like the changes?

Now it looks like Francis has some new ideas. What if they get even more out of line with the mainstream?

Could there be a movement to bring back Benedict? What if Benedict himself asks for a do-over because he is displeased with changes being made. He was elected pope by the cardinals, who believe they are doing the will of god... he was selected to be god's spokesman on earth and leader of the church until death... and now suddenly he isn't because of one man's decision, his own?

Might be interesting to watch.

/tl;dr
 
2013-03-30 04:12:21 PM

clancifer: So the problem is with the Christians themselves?


Considering what makes folks get uptight, i'd say that's a big yep
 
2013-03-30 04:13:55 PM
"Do not do to your neighbor what is hateful when done to you. All else is commentary."
 
2013-03-30 04:16:03 PM
Anyone who has ever met and had a good conversation with a Jesuit knew this Pope was going to cause a constant stream of minor outrages over breaking with the status quo from the moment he was chosen. Those guys really do seem to take a lot of this symbolism stuff seriously.

Of course, it's only a matter of time before he outrages all the folks currently getting a good laugh out of this by symbolically maintaining some other part of the status quo.
 
2013-03-30 04:18:58 PM
the_chief : Why does anybody give a damn about this crap?

I don't know, but I figure it has something to do with money.
I'm a Catholic who goes to church every week. I really don't give a flying f*ck whose feet the pope washes.
The earth will still revolve around the sun no matter what the pope does.
 
2013-03-30 04:20:11 PM
This whole Pope business is some creepy shiat, yo.
 
2013-03-30 04:21:29 PM
It's an organization plagued by a system of abuses, i find it good that the traditionalists have their panties up in a bunch
 
2013-03-30 04:23:31 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Is "traditionalist" some weird Liturgical Latin word for "flaming asshole?"


from near as I can tell, in many cases traditionalist means flaming asshole in any context
 
2013-03-30 04:24:08 PM

varmitydog: the_chief : Why does anybody give a damn about this crap?

I don't know, but I figure it has something to do with money.
I'm a Catholic who goes to church every week. I really don't give a flying f*ck whose feet the pope washes.
The earth will still revolve around the sun no matter what the pope does.


Now THAT is an interesting turn of phrase.

/The fact that around 1/6 of the world are at his beck and call might also have to do with why people care
 
2013-03-30 04:24:51 PM

rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.


He's a different kind of pope.
 
2013-03-30 04:27:33 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: What a "Traditional Catholic" may look like:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x427]


You're confusing "Conservative" with "Traditional".
They are far from the same thing. Although the conservatives like to claim they are traditionalist, the conservative Catholic movement - like the conservative evangelical movement- is a relatively new phenomena. Opus Dei is less than 100 years old and has only been recognized by the Catholic church since 1950. By Catholic standards, that's not a tradition: that's a fad.

Conservative Catholics argue over doctrine.
Traditional Catholics build schools and hospitals.
This is what a Traditional (non-conservative) Catholic may look like:

textualfisticuffs.com
 
2013-03-30 04:27:59 PM
Headline attention whoring. Actual article: Rules lawyer says Pope ignored minor rules, since he can just change them anyway it doesn't matter much, but please do so.

Every Catholic I know thinks new Pope is awesome. Headline = crap.
 
2013-03-30 04:28:11 PM

Silverstaff: OtherLittleGuy: Next thing you know, he'll be healing the sick on the Sabbath and be in the company of tax collectors.

I'm quite sure that acting like that is NOT tolerated by these traditionalists.  They have a very long, proud heritage of being obsessed with Divine Law above all else, and ensuring that they hold everyone, even God Himself, to the absolute literal wording of the law.

It's fair to see that this tradition is much older than Christianity, the modern ultraconservative Catholics are just the newest version of this school of thought.

/Not Catholic
//Finding Pope Francis pretty cool so far though


I can see these folks telling God that he's wrong, and that the procedures were more important then the whole point of the exercise

sort of reminds me of the guys who had a beef with Jesus in the bible
 
2013-03-30 04:28:34 PM

FloydA: FTA:  Francis has little or no interest in one of the key priorities of Benedict's papacy: reviving the pre-Vatican II traditions of the Catholic Church. ...Virtually everything he has done since being elected pope, every gesture, every decision, has rankled traditionalists in one way or another.

Good.


Agreed. I think the RCC is about to discover why they haven't had a Jesuit pope before.
 
2013-03-30 04:28:42 PM
I'm not the most religious guy.
But I'm liking the new guy.

Instead of "I'm leading 1.2 billion" he's thinking "I'm blessed to serve 1.2 billion".
 
2013-03-30 04:32:02 PM

enry: The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


The problem with the Bible is that it says all sorts of other shiat too, a lot of which isn't good, charitable, equitable, or just. The Bible needs some serious downsizing for consistency's sake. Christianity would be better served if it just tossed the entire Old Testament out the window. There is nothing of value there that isn't inferred from the New Testament. The God of the Old Testament is vengeful, petty, and cruel - the God of the New Testament seems like a much cooler guy.
 
2013-03-30 04:32:05 PM
Nice attention-getting headline but yeah, I wasn't seeing much outrage, more like "This could lead to confusion about what the policy is."
 
2013-03-30 04:32:15 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: I'll join the dirty papists if they'll let me be an inquisitor.


No one's expecting that!
 
2013-03-30 04:33:40 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Is "traditionalist" some weird Liturgical Latin word for "flaming asshole?"


Yes.
 
2013-03-30 04:33:47 PM

LargeCanine: Headline attention whoring. Actual article: Rules lawyer says Pope ignored minor rules, since he can just change them anyway it doesn't matter much, but please do so.

Every Catholic I know thinks new Pope is awesome. Headline = crap.


Ah, wait I missed that

a rules lawyer decided to argue with his GM, well we know how those sort of campaigns turn out
 
2013-03-30 04:34:06 PM

orbister: I think the RCC is about to discover why they haven't had a Jesuit pope before.


I certainly hope. It'll be fun watching the very same people who have previously said the Pope's authority is absolute all of a sudden screaming about the Pope not playing by the rules.

R.A.Danny: Instead of "I'm leading 1.2 billion" he's thinking "I'm blessed to serve 1.2 billion".


The real fun starts when/if he tells all the bishops "You do not lead, you serve". Cause some of them aren't gonna like that they're basically being told to stop bossing people around and making demands and instead listen.
 
2013-03-30 04:34:23 PM
Wonder how long until the Pope Francis brings up whitewashed sepulchers?
 
2013-03-30 04:36:40 PM
Traditional Catholics can get farked.

Not literally, of course, unless they happen to be short a kid.
 
2013-03-30 04:36:40 PM
Predicting a papal sudden death in 3...2...1...
 
2013-03-30 04:38:53 PM

RenownedCurator: "This could lead to confusion about what the policy is."


It doesn't lead to any confusion at all, the Pope by his own actions has shown what the policy is. As Pope he alone decides it, unless he were to ask for the counsel of others in deciding it. But on this matter at least, he seems perfectly content to decide it on his own. As he is free to do as Pope.
 
2013-03-30 04:39:05 PM

ScreamingHangover: Forbidden Doughnut: What a "Traditional Catholic" may look like:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x427]

You're confusing "Conservative" with "Traditional".
They are far from the same thing. Although the conservatives like to claim they are traditionalist, the conservative Catholic movement - like the conservative evangelical movement- is a relatively new phenomena. Opus Dei is less than 100 years old and has only been recognized by the Catholic church since 1950. By Catholic standards, that's not a tradition: that's a fad.

Conservative Catholics argue over doctrine.
Traditional Catholics build schools and hospitals.
This is what a Traditional (non-conservative) Catholic may look like:

[textualfisticuffs.com image 220x300]


....I stand corrected.
 
2013-03-30 04:39:05 PM

ukexpat: Predicting a papal sudden death in 3...2...1...


If something like that happened, I'd imagine South and Central Americans and other folks in the new world getting very pissed off
 
2013-03-30 04:39:12 PM

markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.


The ironic part is that pretty much sums up Christ's teachings while on Earth. The other stuff before and after is all just tacked on bullcrap from other people.

nhne-pulse.org
 
2013-03-30 04:39:56 PM
"People naturally imitate their leader. That's the whole point behind Jesus washing the disciples' feet. He was explicitly and intentionally setting an example for them," he said. "Pope Francis knows that he is setting an example."

"If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.


God humbled himself before man so that men would know to do the same. But God forbid Man humble himself before a woman.....
 
2013-03-30 04:40:05 PM
Proves my theory that I've said time and time again... that "Traditional Catholics" are all about the "pomp and circumstance" and not about the religion - probably not saved either - and arrogant as well. Instead of focusing on the pageantry and crap, they need to actually crack open a Bible and find out how God actually intended them to worship and stop with the graven images and other sins against God they have committed.

A previous boss of mine who owned a very small company (of 3-4 employees or so) was one of these uber-traditional-Catholics who was all about the ceremony. He did weird stuff around the office and even wrote with chalk above the doors in some obscure-ceremony he insisted he do to protect the office from "sin".  But yet this was a person who would turn around and yell and scream at everyone, calling them worthless and in so many words telling them that they were "damned and going to hell" because we were not Catholics (I happened to be a Baptist). I did not see him as a person who was a Christian by any means.  He totally missed the point of being a true Christian and probably was not saved either, nor did he show Christian companionship or friendship and set a brotherly example in the faith. People who are like that do not cast the Catholic church in a good light at all and show me and the rest of the world how un-Christian a lot of Catholics are these days, bordering on brain-washed CULT.
 
2013-03-30 04:40:27 PM

tortilla burger: enry: The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

The problem with the Bible is that it says all sorts of other shiat too, a lot of which isn't good, charitable, equitable, or just. The Bible needs some serious downsizing for consistency's sake. Christianity would be better served if it just tossed the entire Old Testament out the window. There is nothing of value there that isn't inferred from the New Testament. The God of the Old Testament is vengeful, petty, and cruel - the God of the New Testament seems like a much cooler guy.


The "New Testament" doesn't work without the lineage of Jesus back to David, the fulfillment of the scriptures, etc., and there's multiple ties back to the other pieces of the Bible.  Yes, for a lot of Christians (who barely read the Bible as it is), you could get rid of the "Old" Testament.  However, the "New" Testament still needs the "Old" part.

ScreamingHangover: Conservative Catholics argue over doctrine.
Traditional Catholics build schools and hospitals.
This is what a Traditional (non-conservative) Catholic may look like:

 You can divorce pieces of the Catholic church from the charity as much as you like, but "Conservative Catholics" are helping build the schools as much as the "Traditional Catholics". Everyone owns their own piece of the doctrine, and the debate over who/what Catholics are.


And just because some "Traditional Catholics" might be pro-abortion, and some "Conservative Catholics" might be pro-death penalty doesn't make either side right.
 
2013-03-30 04:42:25 PM

hinten: The Catholic Pope is not conservative enough for American protestants whose religion was started by protesting the Catholic church's conservative stance.


Only if your talking about Divorce. In reality the protestants fled to America because the Catholic church didn't let them practice their crazy fundamentalism enough. Essentially Luthers theses was about Lutherans wanting to live their life guilty and feeling remorse for everything they had done. The Catholic church had become too liberal.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Ninety-Five_Theses
 
2013-03-30 04:42:26 PM

LtDarkstar: A previous boss of mine who owned a very small company (of 3-4 employees or so) was one of these uber-traditional-Catholics who was all about the ceremony. He did weird stuff around the office and even wrote with chalk above the doors in some obscure-ceremony he insisted he do to protect the office from "sin".


Catholicism is weird in that is the only form of Christianity that allows for folk magic like that, and even some hermeticism. Of course if you told your boss he was doing a magical spell, he'd look at you like YOU were the crazy one.
 
2013-03-30 04:43:44 PM

Steve Zodiac: Oh goody! Does this mean we get to go on a new Crusade to take back the holy land?


The Jews and Muslims have that sewn up right now.

/*runs*
 
2013-03-30 04:46:14 PM

WhyteRaven74: The real fun starts when/if he tells all the bishops "You do not lead, you serve". Cause some of them aren't gonna like that they're basically being told to stop bossing people around and making demands and instead listen.


Oh but they will be leading, my friend. by example. They will show us all how to sacrifice, how to give, how to serve.
 
2013-03-30 04:46:15 PM

legion_of_doo: tortilla burger: enry: The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

The problem with the Bible is that it says all sorts of other shiat too, a lot of which isn't good, charitable, equitable, or just. The Bible needs some serious downsizing for consistency's sake. Christianity would be better served if it just tossed the entire Old Testament out the window. There is nothing of value there that isn't inferred from the New Testament. The God of the Old Testament is vengeful, petty, and cruel - the God of the New Testament seems like a much cooler guy.

The "New Testament" doesn't work without the lineage of Jesus back to David, the fulfillment of the scriptures, etc., and there's multiple ties back to the other pieces of the Bible.  Yes, for a lot of Christians (who barely read the Bible as it is), you could get rid of the "Old" Testament.  However, the "New" Testament still needs the "Old" part.

ScreamingHangover: Conservative Catholics argue over doctrine.
Traditional Catholics build schools and hospitals.
This is what a Traditional (non-conservative) Catholic may look like:
 You can divorce pieces of the Catholic church from the charity as much as you like, but "Conservative Catholics" are helping build the schools as much as the "Traditional Catholics". Everyone owns their own piece of the doctrine, and the debate over who/what Catholics are.


And just because some "Traditional Catholics" might be pro-abortion, and some "Conservative Catholics" might be pro-death penalty doesn't make either side right.


Thank you for reinforcing my distinction between Traditional and conservative Catholics while at the same time providing a perfect example of conservative nitpicking.
 
2013-03-30 04:49:30 PM

Mrtraveler01: Francis' decision to disregard church law and wash the feet of two girls - a Serbian Muslim and an Italian Catholic - during a Holy Thursday ritual has become something of the final straw, evidence that Francis has little or no interest in one of the key priorities of Benedict's papacy: reviving the pre-Vatican II traditions of the Catholic Church.

Thank God! Does this mean we'll stop doing stupid BS like reword the Catholic liturgy to make it even sound less sense than it did before?


Probably.  It took them over a decade to come up with the usage that was adopted a few years ago.
 
2013-03-30 04:55:11 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The traditionalists need to get the bugs out of their butts.  Vatican II was one of the few sensible things the church did over the last 100 years.  The idea that the decline of the church can be blamed on modernizing is moronic, it's the fusty insistence on Latin and outdated traditions that was killing them.  Making the church less accessible to the average churchgoer was NOT helping, Benedict had his head way up his own ass.


They should remember a great impetus behind Vatican II, as well as parallel reformations among mainline Protestants:  the continent that considered itself the bulwark of Christianity launched into a general bloodletting in 1914, followed by one that was even worse in 1939.
 
2013-03-30 04:57:42 PM
So, conservatives are displeased with this new pope?  I like him more and more.
 
2013-03-30 04:58:22 PM

vrax: So, conservatives are displeased with this new pope?


Nope.
 
2013-03-30 04:59:15 PM
Sounds like the GOP could also benefit from finding their own Pope Francis these days.
 
2013-03-30 04:59:35 PM
As a  Mormon, I like this guy. His example of the priesthood being about serving others, and not about personal power or gain, is spot-on.
 
2013-03-30 04:59:58 PM
pope back and forth, forever
 
xcv
2013-03-30 05:02:26 PM

markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.


Then your religion would have died out, like the thousands of other nice-guy philosophies we never heard about because the people preaching them were conquered, raped, killed or converted into the more dominant faiths over the centuries. All the organized faiths today were very adept at passing on their social genes through methods like aggressive indoctrination and a hunger for power.

Religions are like animal species that have to remain competitive or lose their niche.
 
2013-03-30 05:03:00 PM
I'm too modern to be Catholic.  One of my kids went on a field trip to a Catholic church recently.  Watching the members of the church treat the local priest as someone more than human was more than a little uncomfortable.  I prefer my spiritual guide to have some experiences in common with my problems.

With all that said, I am liking this Pope more and more.
 
2013-03-30 05:03:58 PM

LargeCanine: vrax: So, conservatives are displeased with this new pope?

Nope.


Umm, that's exactly what the actual article says.
 
2013-03-30 05:04:01 PM
I like the cut of this guy's jib. I usually only go to mass at Christmas and Easter. I've been thinking about going more often now.
 
2013-03-30 05:05:36 PM

LtDarkstar: Proves my theory that I've said time and time again... that "Traditional Catholics" are all about the "pomp and circumstance" and not about the religion - probably not saved either - and arrogant as well. Instead of focusing on the pageantry and crap, they need to actually crack open a Bible and find out how God actually intended them to worship and stop with the graven images and other sins against God they have committed.

A previous boss of mine who owned a very small company (of 3-4 employees or so) was one of these uber-traditional-Catholics who was all about the ceremony. He did weird stuff around the office and even wrote with chalk above the doors in some obscure-ceremony he insisted he do to protect the office from "sin".  But yet this was a person who would turn around and yell and scream at everyone, calling them worthless and in so many words telling them that they were "damned and going to hell" because we were not Catholics (I happened to be a Baptist). I did not see him as a person who was a Christian by any means.  He totally missed the point of being a true Christian and probably was not saved either, nor did he show Christian companionship or friendship and set a brotherly example in the faith. People who are like that do not cast the Catholic church in a good light at all and show me and the rest of the world how un-Christian a lot of Catholics are these days, bordering on brain-washed CULT.


Let me guess: + -- 20  C + M + B  08 -- +

My dad would do that around Epiphany.  It is the year and the initials of the Three Wise Men, as related by tradition.  It was just considered to be a house blessing, and my father did it because he could reach the top of the door.  It wasn't supposed to keep sin out of the house;  it was just a blessing.


 
2013-03-30 05:11:00 PM

MindStalker: hinten: The Catholic Pope is not conservative enough for American protestants whose religion was started by protesting the Catholic church's conservative stance.

Only if your talking about Divorce. In reality the protestants fled to America because the Catholic church didn't let them practice their crazy fundamentalism enough. Essentially Luthers theses was about Lutherans wanting to live their life guilty and feeling remorse for everything they had done. The Catholic church had become too liberal.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Ninety-Five_Theses



Ah, no.
I'm no theologian so this won't go very far but the fact that he was anti-authoritarian and democratized the distribution of the Bible clearly establishes him as less conservative as the pope and church at the time.
 
2013-03-30 05:11:06 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Is "traditionalist" some weird Liturgical Latin word for "flaming asshole?"



Yes, pretty much
/catholic who loves this new pope and hopes they do not poison him like the last good one..
 
2013-03-30 05:11:32 PM

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


It also says that you should treat your slaves kindly.  Can I start keeping slaves?  My place is a mess and I can't stay on top of it.
 
2013-03-30 05:11:40 PM
My parents were very traditional Roman Catholics and they would love this guy. I've never heard any of these arguments until the media recently picked up on it. I think it's a made up non-story.
 
2013-03-30 05:12:14 PM

rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.


"He's a different kind of pope!"
 
2013-03-30 05:12:17 PM
The traditional Catholics are forgetting the most traditional thing a Catholic can do: getting over the fact that the Pope is in charge of you and realizing that what he says, goes.
 
2013-03-30 05:12:53 PM

bingo the psych-o: enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

It also says that you should treat your slaves kindly.  Can I start keeping slaves?  My place is a mess and I can't stay on top of it.


That's what kids are for.
 
2013-03-30 05:14:11 PM

rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.


He's a different kind of pope.
 
2013-03-30 05:19:59 PM

Oldiron_79: Gifted Many Few: When do the heretic burnings begin again? That was when traditional meant something.

THIS, we could all use a good inquisition.


sounds like you're expecting one...
 
2013-03-30 05:20:30 PM

LDM90: NutWrench: "If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.

Look, just say, "girls have cooties" ok?

I get the feeling that anyone who calls women "females" really doesn't like women.

That's a word that should be reserved for veterinarians and biologists and geekspeakers.


FTFY.

/I geekspoke a lot
//I sounded like a dictionary
 
2013-03-30 05:24:40 PM

Breygon: Oldiron_79: Gifted Many Few: When do the heretic burnings begin again? That was when traditional meant something.

THIS, we could all use a good inquisition.

sounds like you're expecting one...


Its the inquisition, lets begin. The Inquisition, you better watch out sin.
 
2013-03-30 05:29:04 PM

hinten: MindStalker: hinten: The Catholic Pope is not conservative enough for American protestants whose religion was started by protesting the Catholic church's conservative stance.

Only if your talking about Divorce. In reality the protestants fled to America because the Catholic church didn't let them practice their crazy fundamentalism enough. Essentially Luthers theses was about Lutherans wanting to live their life guilty and feeling remorse for everything they had done. The Catholic church had become too liberal.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Ninety-Five_Theses


Ah, no.
I'm no theologian so this won't go very far but the fact that he was anti-authoritarian and democratized the distribution of the Bible clearly establishes him as less conservative as the pope and church at the time.


Honestly, its a difficult subject, one was fundamentalist about central authority, they were the government, they were using the church as part of that. The other was fundamentalist about gods authority, they believed in extremely strict rules in regarding daily life that the government didn't follow. In a weird way, its as if the Taliban and Iran had a spat and they split.
 
2013-03-30 05:31:23 PM
So this guy is actually practicing what he's spent a lifetime preaching and some fart-wads are getting their panties in a bunch that he's not acting like some Divine bigshot that dresses like Liberace?
 
2013-03-30 05:31:46 PM

LtDarkstar: Proves my theory that I've said time and time again... that "Traditional Catholics" are all about the "pomp and circumstance" and not about the religion - probably not saved either - and arrogant as well. Instead of focusing on the pageantry and crap, they need to actually crack open a Bible and find out how God actually intended them to worship and stop with the graven images and other sins against God they have committed.

A previous boss of mine who owned a very small company (of 3-4 employees or so) was one of these uber-traditional-Catholics who was all about the ceremony. He did weird stuff around the office and even wrote with chalk above the doors in some obscure-ceremony he insisted he do to protect the office from "sin".  But yet this was a person who would turn around and yell and scream at everyone, calling them worthless and in so many words telling them that they were "damned and going to hell" because we were not Catholics (I happened to be a Baptist). I did not see him as a person who was a Christian by any means.  He totally missed the point of being a true Christian and probably was not saved either, nor did he show Christian companionship or friendship and set a brotherly example in the faith. People who are like that do not cast the Catholic church in a good light at all and show me and the rest of the world how un-Christian a lot of Catholics are these days, bordering on brain-washed CULT.


This is some good looking bait. I'll bite.
Baptists were the only ones-while trying to convince me to join them-to tell me all other religions were wrong.
That's the last time I went with my friends to the youth group.

To suggest those around you are not saved is bigotry thinly disguised as faith.
I try not to be offended when asked if I'm saved or not.
It's really hard, though. The word gives me the bad ooky shivers. And yet I've never been burnt by all the holy water I've had sprinkled upon my.person. Go figure.
 
2013-03-30 05:32:11 PM
This thread should have been funnier.
 
2013-03-30 05:34:41 PM
When this guy actually lives like the jesus ... until then ... we'll probly' hear somewhere down the road that his peaked silliness had quietly moved back into his palatial surroundings after it had been fully renovated.
 
2013-03-30 05:36:52 PM

varmitydog: The earth will still revolve around the sun no matter what the pope does.


Pfft... You had that part backwards meaning the rest of what you say is a bit suspect.
 
2013-03-30 05:40:01 PM
So "non-traditionalist pope" just means he's dropping some of the pomp and using more humble language. He isn't doing anything like reversing the Church's stance on contraception, extending the priesthood to women or married people, or anything that actually would make Catholicism more relevant to the modern world. I guess I'm strongly indifferent to this Pope's break with tradition.
 
2013-03-30 05:42:55 PM
legion_of_doo:

The "New Testament" doesn't work without the lineage of Jesus back to David, the fulfillment of the scriptures, etc., and there's multiple ties back to the other pieces of the Bible.  Yes, for a lot of Christians (who barely read the Bible as it is), you could get rid of the "Old" Testament.  However, the "New" Testament still needs the "Old" part.

Why not? The lineage to David was "proof" of his messiah-hood. That was to convince the Jews he was the one they were waiting for. If you believe he died on the cross for your sins and came back to life 3 days later (and all the logical rational stuff he taught that every other religion also says), then you don't need the "lineage" and "fulfillment of scriptures." I mean, the guy healed people, made food appear out of nowhere, and brought a dude back to life, and you still want to see his family tree to verify it? That's like saying you won't believe the guy who flew un-aided through the air, caught an asteroid before impact, and hurled it back into space is Superman until you see his Kryptonian birth certificate! He was either the Son of God who died and came back to life or not, regardless of "scripture."

By the way, I quit being Catholic and/or Christian 25 years ago, so have no dog in the hunt.
 
2013-03-30 05:43:38 PM

odinsposse: So "non-traditionalist pope" just means he's dropping some of the pomp and using more humble language. He isn't doing anything like reversing the Church's stance on contraception, extending the priesthood to women or married people, or anything that actually would make Catholicism more relevant to the modern world. I guess I'm strongly indifferent to this Pope's break with tradition.


If they are annoyed at what little changes he is doing now, image how they would respond to those big changes.
 
2013-03-30 05:45:08 PM

odinsposse: So "non-traditionalist pope" just means he's dropping some of the pomp and using more humble language. He isn't doing anything like reversing the Church's stance on contraception, extending the priesthood to women or married people, or anything that actually would make Catholicism more relevant to the modern world. I guess I'm strongly indifferent to this Pope's break with tradition.


He's been in the job for how many days now? He can't do any of that at the drop of a hat- changing shiat like that requires a lot of work behind the scenes, even when you are the boss.
And, you know, he is changing shiat. Like washing the feet of women- that's very, very big, and could very well be the precursor to an expanded role for women. But he's got to knock a few heads in the curia first.
 
2013-03-30 05:52:49 PM

enry: The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


Yes, in some parts. In others it contradicts itself.  Once a war god, always a war god.
 
2013-03-30 05:53:47 PM
I see that traditional stupidity is still in tact.
 
2013-03-30 05:54:45 PM

Hickory-smoked: "Do not do to your neighbor what is hateful when done to you. All else is commentary."


But I like it when people stop me from getting an abortion!

The Golden Rule is the most egotistical, illogical piece of morality ever.  What you prefer is not what others prefer.
 
2013-03-30 05:57:57 PM

NeverDrunk23: odinsposse: So "non-traditionalist pope" just means he's dropping some of the pomp and using more humble language. He isn't doing anything like reversing the Church's stance on contraception, extending the priesthood to women or married people, or anything that actually would make Catholicism more relevant to the modern world. I guess I'm strongly indifferent to this Pope's break with tradition.

If they are annoyed at what little changes he is doing now, image how they would respond to those big changes.


Exactly, the Conservative Catholics are getting upset because he:

1. Refused to wear a gold cross, insisting on the same worn old wooden one he's worn for years.
2. Refused to wear a fancy red velvet cape.
3. Refused to live in the Papal Apartments, considering them too opulent, instead living in a small hotel room.
4. Refused to stand above the Cardinals when they pledged loyalty to him.
5. . . .ceremonially washed the feet of women.

Yeah.  Remember, the Catholic Church is incredibly resistant to ANY change as an institution.  It's 2000 years old, and loves to take ridiculous amounts of time to change anything.

As-is, Francis is practically a revolutionary as Pope.  Give the man some time, if you think the Conservatives are grumpy now, just imagine if he really did say something truly big.  These changes have to come slowly.
 
2013-03-30 05:58:26 PM

BarkingUnicorn: The Golden Rule is the most egotistical, illogical piece of morality ever.


... Except for all the other ones?
 
2013-03-30 06:04:44 PM
The butt-hurt of the traditionalists is very (the pun is intentional) and I love it.

...he has devastated traditionalist Catholics who adored his predecessor, Benedict XVI, for restoring much of the traditional pomp to the papacy.
gutn.net

"The official end of the reform of the reform - by example," ''Rorate Caeli" lamented in its report on Francis' Holy Thursday ritual.

gutn.net

Virtually everything he has done since being elected pope, every gesture, every decision, has rankled traditionalists in one way or another.

gutn.net


Traditionalist Catholics who were attached to the old rite blame many of the ills afflicting the Catholic Church today - a drop in priestly vocations, empty pews in Europe and beyond - on the liturgical abuses that they say have proliferated with the celebration of the new form of Mass.

BZZZZZ...
wrong. This shiat has likely been going on for much much longer. You don' get to shift the blame. It is you farkers who blindly supported the priest as the infallible master of ceremonies. That he is the hand of God an all that shiat. It is you who perverted the word of Jesus to the point that this stuff not only could happen but that the bishops saw nothing wrong in doing what they did. Power corrupts and you guys gave them absolute power to do as they wish. It is only now post-V2 that these people are empowered enough to speak-out.

You revel in the pomp and circumstance of the ceremony because of the way it makes you feel "special". Not giving a damn about how unchristian it is. Jesus gladly ate with the worst people you could find in his time. He ate with bums, the sick, prostitutes, tax collectors*, etc. Jesus entire life was spent preaching about everything you fight against. He preached compassion for the poor, humanity for your fellow man, self-evaluation and self-improvement. He preached against prejudice, against elevating others to a higher seat, etc. Vatican II came about NOT because they wanted to change things to be more liberal; it was because people realized pre-V2 for what it was: an out-right sham. Jesus taught the values of love and equality, you prefer a religion of elitist intolerance and ostentatiousness. Please go be an ascetic, where we don't have to listen to your perversion

I say all of this as someone who fluctuates in the reformed-Catholic/agnostic/atheist space. There are values and things the church does that are quite good, there are also things the church permits or enforces that are outright evil.
As a former priest of mine taught (at a parish that said in their charter statement: "we are all sinners as such we welcome...those of confused or differing sexual orientations...") you often can find good in any bad, you just have to learn how to discard the bad and keep the good.
*Tax collectors were considered some of the worst people possible. Whatever they determined was owed was what the family had to pay (they often added a percentage onto the tax for their own pocket). They had the power to force a family to starve to death. Needless to say, these people were hated.
 
2013-03-30 06:11:24 PM
He's selling indulgences? How much does one go for these days?
 
2013-03-30 06:18:00 PM

Breygon: Oldiron_79: Gifted Many Few: When do the heretic burnings begin again? That was when traditional meant something.

THIS, we could all use a good inquisition.

sounds like you're expecting one...


NO ONE EXPECTS THE INQUISITION!
 
2013-03-30 06:30:26 PM

markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick -

Psalm 34:13-14ESV

Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.

2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves -

Acts 20:35  ESV
In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

Proverbs 19:17  ESV
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the  Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.


3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life. -

1 Thessalonians 5:18ESV

Give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.


it does.
 
2013-03-30 06:38:10 PM
Good.  Fark these right wing, heartless bastards.  As if clothes and liturgical niceties are more important than serving those in need.

/progressive Catholic
//sick of all the Christian-Taliban shiat in this country
///slashies having a strange calming effect.
 
2013-03-30 06:39:29 PM
He's symbolically telling the priests and other clergy to expand to molesting little girls, as people are growing wise to them molesting boys.
He's pragmatic, this pope.
 
2013-03-30 06:45:56 PM

DetrimentalScience: The butt-hurt of the traditionalists is very (the pun is intentional) and I love it.

...he has devastated traditionalist Catholics who adored his predecessor, Benedict XVI, for restoring much of the traditional pomp to the papacy.
[gutn.net image 750x499]

"The official end of the reform of the reform - by example," ''Rorate Caeli" lamented in its report on Francis' Holy Thursday ritual.

[gutn.net image 750x499]

Virtually everything he has done since being elected pope, every gesture, every decision, has rankled traditionalists in one way or another.

[gutn.net image 750x499]


Traditionalist Catholics who were attached to the old rite blame many of the ills afflicting the Catholic Church today - a drop in priestly vocations, empty pews in Europe and beyond - on the liturgical abuses that they say have proliferated with the celebration of the new form of Mass.

BZZZZZ...wrong. This shiat has likely been going on for much much longer. You don' get to shift the blame. It is you farkers who blindly supported the priest as the infallible master of ceremonies. That he is the hand of God an all that shiat. It is you who perverted the word of Jesus to the point that this stuff not only could happen but that the bishops saw nothing wrong in doing what they did. Power corrupts and you guys gave them absolute power to do as they wish. It is only now post-V2 that these people are empowered enough to speak-out.

You revel in the pomp and circumstance of the ceremony because of the way it makes you feel "special". Not giving a damn about how unchristian it is. Jesus gladly ate with the worst people you could find in his time. He ate with bums, the sick, prostitutes, tax collectors*, etc. Jesus entire life was spent preaching about everything you fight against. He preached compassion for the poor, humanity for your fellow man, self-evaluation and self-improvement. He preached against prejudice, against elevating others to a higher seat, etc. Vatican II came about NOT because t ...


As Stephen Fry said in the Intelligence Squared Debate:

"Do you know who would be the last person ever to be accepted as a prince of the Church? The Galilean carpenter. That Jew. They would kick him out before he tried to cross the threshold. He would be so ill-at-ease in the Church. What would he think, what would he think of St. Peter's? What would he think of the wealth, and the power, and the self-justification, and the wheedling apologies? The Pope could decide that all this power, all this wealth, this hierarchy of princes and bishops and archbishops and priests and monks and nuns could be sent out in the world with money and art treasures, to put them back in the countries that they once raped and violated, they could give that money away, and they could concentrate on the apparent essence of their belief, and then, I would stand here and say the Catholic Church may well be a force for good in the world, but until that day, it is not. Thank you. "
 
2013-03-30 06:47:58 PM

likeahawk: "People naturally imitate their leader. That's the whole point behind Jesus washing the disciples' feet. He was explicitly and intentionally setting an example for them," he said. "Pope Francis knows that he is setting an example."

"If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.

God humbled himself before man so that men would know to do the same. But God forbid Man humble himself before a woman.....


There were two phrases in the article that amused me. The first was "spittle flecked nutty," which has already been covered. The other was "militant humility."
 
2013-03-30 06:49:49 PM

Steve Zodiac: Oh goody! Does this mean we get to go on a new Crusade to take back the holy land?


Oddly enough, they're pissed that he seems to want to get along with Muslims.
 
2013-03-30 06:51:16 PM

WhyteRaven74: The real fun starts when/if he tells all the bishops "You do not lead, you serve". Cause some of them aren't gonna like that they're basically being told to stop bossing people around and making demands and instead listen.


Here's how I think it will go.

Reformers: How about women priests?
Pope: Not a chance.
Traditionalists: Ha ha (think Nelson Muntz)
Pope: Now let's talk about poverty
Traditionalists: Oh shiat.
Reformers: Ha ha (think Nelson Muntz, again)
 
2013-03-30 06:53:22 PM

tzzhc4: The ironic part is that pretty much sums up Christ's teachings while on Earth. The other stuff before and after is all just tacked on bullcrap from other people.


It is sad but generally true that most fundies and evangelicals ignore the four awkward gospels as far as possible and concentrate on a couple of chapters of Leviticus and a few of Paul's nastier rants.
 
2013-03-30 06:57:40 PM

ariseatex: He's a different kind of pope.


There's been an argument.
Over Vatican II?
 
2013-03-30 06:59:54 PM

BMFPitt: He's selling indulgences? How much does one go for these days?


Depends on what you want to indulge in.  Seriously, indulgences were priced according to the severity of the sins.
 
2013-03-30 07:03:35 PM

the_chief: Why does anybody give a damn about this crap?


Most of those RCs I know are basically "going through the motions" to keep the old folks happy..old folks that have been brainwashed that god will not let them see their loved ones in Heaven once their time is up if they don't follow the rules.  Which kinda blows the whole eternal happiness in heaven thing out of the water.

Once those old crows are dead, you'll see a lot less church going.
 
2013-03-30 07:03:57 PM

DetrimentalScience: BZZZZZ...wrong. This shiat has likely been going on for much much longer. You don' get to shift the blame. It is you farkers who blindly supported the priest as the infallible master of ceremonies.


If you have a good, tight grip on your sanity, have a look at the Catholic Truth Scotland website and in particular at their newsletters.
 
2013-03-30 07:06:19 PM

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


Yes (and I'm sure others have already said it because I came in late), but it has stuff that also denigrates women and any non-powerful member of society. Though obviously much of that is in the Pauline letters it is still the NT. While the bible DOES have some good points, it has just as many if not more bad points.  ALL christians pick and cose which parts they follow. Even ALL jews pick and choose which parts they follow of the OT, even the most orthodox of jews, how many stonings of disobedient children or adulterous wves have you heard of i Brooklyn?
 
2013-03-30 07:07:24 PM
Most Christians would snub Jesus for the homeless religious nut and provocateur he was, the filthy beggar.
 
2013-03-30 07:07:37 PM
So, the Pope is supposed to be Jesus' representative on Earth, yes? Do these "traditionalists" really take it from the Bible that the Jesus written about there would want to be carried around in chairs and sit above people on a throne while wearing kingly costumes?
 
2013-03-30 07:10:57 PM

ATRDCI: "The Pope could decide that all this power, all this wealth, this hierarchy of princes and bishops and archbishops and priests and monks and nuns could be sent out in the world with money and art treasures, to put them back in the countries that they once raped and violated, they could give that money away, and they could concentrate on the apparent essence of their belief, and then, I would stand here and say the Catholic Church may well be a force for good in the world, but until that day, it is not.

"

Doing evil or failing to do all the good you can does not negate the good that you do.  There is a more pertinent reason for the Church to divest itself of worldly trappings.

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."  Matt 19:24
 
2013-03-30 07:13:29 PM

Valiente: Most Christians would snub Jesus for the homeless religious nut and provocateur he was, the filthy beggar.


Until they learned that he could get them out of Hell for free.
 
2013-03-30 07:24:12 PM
Pope to traditionalists kvetching about church law:

global.fncstatic.com
 
2013-03-30 07:26:08 PM

lelio: "Before liberals and traditionalists both have a spittle-flecked nutty, each for their own reasons, try to figure out what he is trying to do," Zuhlsdorf wrote in a conciliatory piece.


Spittle flecked nutty? Is that some new choir boy thing?


Well I don't know about you, but "spittle-flecked nutty" is the new name of my band.
 
2013-03-30 07:33:18 PM
But I don't want to eat fish on Friday.
 
2013-03-30 07:39:08 PM

Dahnkster: pope back and forth, forever


Came for this.

/Though I didn't realize it when I clicked the link
//Was a lost sole searching blindly for satisfaction
///Now that I've heard the true word, I could leave happy
////Staying for more satisfaction anyway
 
2013-03-30 07:42:42 PM
*raised eyebrows*
*shiat-eating grin*

God forbid the Pope act Christ-like.
Still, the man's just started office and will likely be there for a good long time. Lets see where he takes it.
 
2013-03-30 07:43:30 PM

PonceAlyosha: LtDarkstar: A previous boss of mine who owned a very small company (of 3-4 employees or so) was one of these uber-traditional-Catholics who was all about the ceremony. He did weird stuff around the office and even wrote with chalk above the doors in some obscure-ceremony he insisted he do to protect the office from "sin".

Catholicism is weird in that is the only form of Christianity that allows for folk magic like that, and even some hermeticism. Of course if you told your boss he was doing a magical spell, he'd look at you like YOU were the crazy one.



I guess you have mised out on the castng out of demons, casting out of gay demons, snake handling, speaking in tongues, anti-witch crussaders etc. that have spoken in protestant churche in America. There was even that gu who spoke at Palin's church. And what is praying but the oldest form of folk magic, asking a spirit to intercede in your life?
 
2013-03-30 07:46:08 PM

orbister: ariseatex: He's a different kind of pope.

There's been an argument.
Over Vatican II?


OK, I have 2 responses:

1. I'll never get over Vatican II. or
b. Vatican II! What is it!?
 
2013-03-30 07:48:09 PM
So Francis isn't as fabulous as Benedict?
 
2013-03-30 08:00:14 PM
zamboni:
But as a hypothetical, I asked, what if the new pope comes in and starts ruffling the cardinal's feathers? (pun semi-intentional) What if he proposes massive changes. He's the pope... he can do that. What if this filters down and a significant portion of the church hierarchy is uncomfortable with these changes? What if the people themselves don't like the changes?

Now it looks like Francis has some new ideas. What if they get even more out of line with the mainstream?


Wasn't there some vision/revelation/something where some girls were given, amongst other things, a list of all of the Popes who would ever be... and JPII was the second-to-last one?

Curiouser and curiouser.
 
2013-03-30 08:08:33 PM

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


The *Gospels* pretty much say all that.  The letters of Paul, not so much.
 
2013-03-30 08:10:21 PM
Until this asshole turns over financial records and child molesters to the police en masse, he's no better than the nazi that just quit. This footwashing and chait nonsense is just window dressing.
 
2013-03-30 08:10:23 PM
These traditionalists need to think outside the box.  Don't like the new Pope?  Hold your own conclave and declared that you're the new Pope.

http://popemichaelfilm.com/

/Seriously, I've done a lot of research on the sedevacantists, the antipopes, and conclavists; they take craziness to a whole new level.
 
2013-03-30 08:11:31 PM

Mister Peejay: zamboni:
But as a hypothetical, I asked, what if the new pope comes in and starts ruffling the cardinal's feathers? (pun semi-intentional) What if he proposes massive changes. He's the pope... he can do that. What if this filters down and a significant portion of the church hierarchy is uncomfortable with these changes? What if the people themselves don't like the changes?

Now it looks like Francis has some new ideas. What if they get even more out of line with the mainstream?

Wasn't there some vision/revelation/something where some girls were given, amongst other things, a list of all of the Popes who would ever be... and JPII was the second-to-last one?

Curiouser and curiouser.


Fatima. And, no. That was about some other things, although there is a bishop and blood and angels and stuff in the third secret. You're thinking of the Prophecy of the Popes (or St. Malachy), which is pretty likely a hoax. Anyhow, the Prophecy of the Popes does talk about a last Pope, but people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last, even though AFAIK there hasn't been gaps when they try to match up the descriptions with actual Popes. *shrug*
 
2013-03-30 08:18:09 PM

xanadian: enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

To put a finer point on it:  the Gospels pretty much say that.  The rest of it is either "control of the masses" kind of dreck or a religious take on historical events.




If the bible were only the gospels, Christianity would be way more appealing.

No Genesis to provide fuel for the Creationists.
No Leviticus to provide fuel for the gay-bashers and misogynists.
No more St. Paul to do likewise.
No more Revelation to give fuel to the doomsday cults.

Just Jesus an his message, without all the other crap.
 
2013-03-30 08:52:57 PM
I suspect that "traditional" Catholics like the Pope to be traditional so they don't have to be. It's like the relationship between Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox Jews, and the really all-out religious Jews who live on welfare, have enormous families and practice a religion so severely that they impress everybody else who is a little or a lot less strict but not so much that any of them want to be them.

They're sort of the icing on the cake of religion. And Saint Peter's Basilica is one Hell of a gorgeous cake decoration. Even gay atheist Protestants and Jews are amazed at he outrageous scale of the thing.

But nobody wants the Pope sticking his nose into their own affairs (sexual and marital especially).

You're the Pope of Rome, they seem to think, but you're not the Pope of me.

I always say that the unofficial religion of Canada is Lapsed Catholicism. That's pretty much true of the world. If it were to have a semi-official religion, Lapsed Catholicism would be just grand. It doesn't hurt any one much--certainly not as much as the converts to newer and shakier faiths do, and it takes its own dogma lightly, wearing it on its sleave, not plunging its daggers into your heart in the name of blood-thirsty orthodoxy.

Between Bad Jews and Bad Roman Catholics there is not much to choose, but Thank God for both of them. Not that there's anything wrong with genteel, warm water Protestants or others of the ilk. It's the great masses of people who don't take their religion all that seriously who makes it possible for all of us to survive those who take it way too seriously--and way out of the mainstream into looney psycho territory.
 
2013-03-30 09:11:24 PM

rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.


He's a different kind of Pope.
 
2013-03-30 09:17:57 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: I'll join the dirty papists if they'll let me be an inquisitor.


No one would expect that.
 
2013-03-30 09:56:10 PM
I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I think the Church--be it Catholic or Protestant--would do well to get back to addressing poverty and related social issues more directly and clearly (but excluding divisive hot-button politics like abortion and gay marriage,etc.). On the other, I am very traditional when it comes to church music. I like the liturgical worship traditions. I can understand a person wanting a Latin Mass--provided you understand what the rituals mean, which does not have to be the same as understanding Latin--but vernacular worship is mighty important too. I don't see why you can't have one of each.
 
2013-03-30 09:57:09 PM
So wait. They get a pope that acts more like how Jesus acted when he was here and the Pharisees get all mad and huffy.

Nice to see things haven't changed in 2000 years.
 
2013-03-30 09:58:21 PM

Doc Daneeka: xanadian: enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

To put a finer point on it:  the Gospels pretty much say that.  The rest of it is either "control of the masses" kind of dreck or a religious take on historical events.

If the bible were only the gospels, Christianity would be way more appealing.

No Genesis to provide fuel for the Creationists.
No Leviticus to provide fuel for the gay-bashers and misogynists.
No more St. Paul to do likewise.
No more Revelation to give fuel to the doomsday cults.

Just Jesus an his message, without all the other crap.


It's pretty much how I've tried to live my whole life.
 
2013-03-30 10:16:43 PM

enry: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.


Well, that and don't be gay
 
2013-03-30 10:31:14 PM

Mrtraveler01: Francis' decision to disregard church law and wash the feet of two girls - a Serbian Muslim and an Italian Catholic - during a Holy Thursday ritual has become something of the final straw, evidence that Francis has little or no interest in one of the key priorities of Benedict's papacy: reviving the pre-Vatican II traditions of the Catholic Church.

Thank God! Does this mean we'll stop doing stupid BS like reword the Catholic liturgy to make it even sound less sense than it did before?


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-30 10:32:05 PM
Headline: Traditional Catholics are outraged ...

*sigh* No, we're not. The new pope is loving and caring. Funny how that bugs so many people.
 
2013-03-30 10:46:05 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The traditionalists need to get the bugs out of their butts.  Vatican II was one of the few sensible things the church did over the last 100 years.  The idea that the decline of the church can be blamed on modernizing is moronic, it's the fusty insistence on Latin and outdated traditions that was killing them.  Making the church less accessible to the average churchgoer was NOT helping, Benedict had his head way up his own ass.


The lack of Latin Mass as a driving force in the decline of the church is what stuck out for me the most.  I just can't find the logical process that could lead to this conclusion. If their best idea is to babble at people for an hour in a dead language that no one will understand, jam a cracker in your face, give you a sip of wine and send you on your way then they were on a road to ruin.  At least if they use the vernacular, people will hear the message.
 
2013-03-30 10:53:38 PM
The trads do make one interesting point about cultural relativism. Thats not a game the church needs to play... during service. Homilies shouldn't be about whats in the news but about the weeks gospel and readings.
 
2013-03-30 10:57:33 PM

Jubilation T. Cornpone: Headline: Traditional Catholics are outraged ...

*sigh* No, we're not. The new pope is loving and caring. Funny how that bugs so many people.


You may not be but some are. My parent's friends are prime examples, if there is such a thing as fundamentalist, fire and brimstone catholics that is what they are. In an organization of 1.2 billion peope it is not hard to find those that are dissatisfied especially as the dissatisfied ones will speak up and let the world know they are quite dissatisfied and the media loves controversy.
 
2013-03-30 11:04:38 PM

likeahawk: The trads do make one interesting point about cultural relativism. Thats not a game the church needs to play... during service. Homilies shouldn't be about whats in the news but about the weeks gospel and readings.


Should they not make Homilies relevant to what is going on in the world? If only to show how the Bible is still a viable institution of society?  I know they put out a schedule of sorts but tying those into the events of the day should be crucial.  It is possible that I am misunderstanding your post though.
 
2013-03-30 11:26:54 PM
dailyatheistquote.com
 
2013-03-30 11:35:50 PM
Pope Troll the First.
 
2013-03-30 11:54:57 PM

Dahnkster: Yesterday, during Good Friday prayers he sent greetings and reached out in friendship by offering well-wishes to "our Muslims brothers and sisters". Christian indeed!


I could like this new Pope.
 
2013-03-30 11:55:24 PM

angrycrank: Pope Troll the First.


I very much doubt that. The guy who dragged up a predecessor's corpse to put it on trial might qualify...
 
2013-03-30 11:56:06 PM

angrycrank: Pope Troll the First.


Almost seems like it.... He seems big in humility and giving up the gold so I expect him to live about two more weeks.. He could do so much good but he will not have a chance.
 
2013-03-31 12:14:51 AM

MacWizard: likeahawk: "People naturally imitate their leader. That's the whole point behind Jesus washing the disciples' feet. He was explicitly and intentionally setting an example for them," he said. "Pope Francis knows that he is setting an example."

"If someone is washing the feet of any females ... he is in violation of the Holy Thursday rubrics," Peters wrote in a 2006 article that he reposted earlier this month on his blog.

God humbled himself before man so that men would know to do the same. But God forbid Man humble himself before a woman.....

There were two phrases in the article that amused me. The first was "spittle flecked nutty," which has already been covered. The other was "militant humility."


New Pope has been criticized for humble-bragging before by his colleagues who look shiatty in comparison.
 
2013-03-31 12:17:17 AM

chumboobler: angrycrank: Pope Troll the First.

Almost seems like it.... He seems big in humility and giving up the gold so I expect him to live about two more weeks.. He could do so much good but he will not have a chance.


What do you mean 'giving up the gold'?  Did he melt down his throne and give it away?
 
2013-03-31 12:52:29 AM
bad people are bad

/YAWN
 
2013-03-31 01:12:29 AM
The "traditional pomp [of] the papacy" is the major reason we got Cathars, Waldensians, Lollards, Hussites and Girolamo Savonarola.  And all of those were *before* Martin Luther.
 
2013-03-31 01:26:33 AM

Aidan: people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last


Except for the people who actually know what "penultimate" means. But then, ninety percent of organized religion is rules-lawyering and equivocating on a level that makes the `spergiest of D&D players look like an amateur.

The Rapture was supposed to happen during the lifetimes of the Apostles. But it'll be along any day now.

Any day.
 
2013-03-31 01:49:41 AM

Anonymous Bosch: Aidan: people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last

Except for the people who actually know what "penultimate" means.


I know what it means, and that's why I LOL'ed.
 
2013-03-31 02:00:25 AM

Anonymous Bosch: Aidan: people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last

Except for the people who actually know what "penultimate" means. But then, ninety percent of organized religion is rules-lawyering and equivocating on a level that makes the `spergiest of D&D players look like an amateur.

The Rapture was supposed to happen during the lifetimes of the Apostles. But it'll be along any day now.

Any day.


Hm? Penultimate. Next to last. What'd you think I meant? I suppose we could argue about the Prophecy of Popes but I found it pretty damn boring, especially when the Vatican (?) claims there's space between the Popes for extra Popes, even though they've never actually used that idea before. Meh.
 
2013-03-31 02:11:19 AM

tzzhc4: markie_farkie: Organized religion is the biggest power and money grab ever invented by man..

If it were up to me, the bible would be:

1.  Don't be a dick
2.  Quietly help those who are unable to help themselves
3.  Be thankful for what, and who you have in your life.

The ironic part is that pretty much sums up Christ's teachings while on Earth. The other stuff before and after is all just tacked on bullcrap from other people.

[nhne-pulse.org image 850x570]



Despite the fact that I'm a hellbound heathen, I truly love that man...a far better ambassador for Christianity than most of the clergy.
 
2013-03-31 02:12:04 AM
He's being exactly like Jesus and they're being exactly like the Pharisees and they don't even see the irony.  Hey guys, nobody in all of human history did more to elevate the status of women than Jesus Christ.
 
2013-03-31 02:19:22 AM
A pedicure from the Pope?  When I was an altar boy, we used to get facials from the priests.
 
2013-03-31 02:30:28 AM

Aidan: Anonymous Bosch: Aidan: people keep saying you could have lots of Popes in between the penultimate and the last

Except for the people who actually know what "penultimate" means. But then, ninety percent of organized religion is rules-lawyering and equivocating on a level that makes the `spergiest of D&D players look like an amateur.

The Rapture was supposed to happen during the lifetimes of the Apostles. But it'll be along any day now.

Any day.

Hm? Penultimate. Next to last. What'd you think I meant? I suppose we could argue about the Prophecy of Popes but I found it pretty damn boring, especially when the Vatican (?) claims there's space between the Popes for extra Popes, even though they've never actually used that idea before. Meh.


 Is the list of Popes triple-spaced?
 
2013-03-31 02:54:29 AM

Mort_Q: enry: The bible (New Testament) pretty much says all that.

Yes, in some parts. In others it contradicts itself.  Once a war god, always a war god.


Yeah but we're supposed to ignore most of Matthew.  Aka "the grumpy one".   Actually I may be mixing up the names, it's late and I don't care.

/insomnia!

Joking aside, the New Testament *is* interesting if you can extricate it from it's irritating, hateful worshippers.  The story of a cult leader who preached peace and love and communalism, and reading in-between the lines.  Like when one of his flock tried to keep some money for his family instead of giving it all to Pappa Bear JC and "god" killed him, and then later his wife for the same thing.  Or the historical context of how the Jews (any tribe, really) didn't really consider people outside their tribe as full persons.  It was just how folk ROLLED back then, but adding that context gives new and interesting meaning to a lot of the stories.

It's just I prefer stories with plasma cannons.
 
2013-03-31 02:54:47 AM

djkutch: There is great power in symbolism. This symbolism equates women as equals. Insert Ghandi quote here.


Well when Jesus arose who was the first person he met?

There you go...
 
2013-03-31 03:29:57 AM
From previous fark thread
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-31 08:35:42 AM

tortilla burger: The God of the Old Testament is vengeful, petty, and cruel - the God of the New Testament seems like a much cooler guy.


You know why? Because God finally had sex again, thanks to that little hussy Maria. That high didn't last long though, in Revelation he's pretty much back to grumpy.
 
2013-03-31 10:28:16 AM

Bonobo62: A pedicure from the Pope?  When I was an altar boy, we used to get facials from the priests.


Fantastic!
We finally have a thread winner.
You get to drink from the firehose!
 
2013-03-31 11:35:10 AM
So the foot-washing is the final straw?

Not the child sexual abuse and the cover-up?

/I don't get these people at all
 
2013-03-31 11:41:37 AM
Moonk:

me too

i.imgur.com

// not a catholic, not a christian
/ respects other peoples beliefs
 
2013-03-31 12:41:36 PM

Tsar_Bomba1: djkutch: There is great power in symbolism. This symbolism equates women as equals. Insert Ghandi quote here.

Well when Jesus arose who was the first person he met?

There you go...


I would have arisen from the dead for her, too!

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-01 01:54:08 AM

Uzzah: rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.

He's a different kind of pope.


And STOP calling me SHIRLEY!!!....And I aint payin no 50 cents for no coke either!
 
2013-04-01 11:10:05 PM

SuddenlySamhain: Uzzah: rkiller1: He's a different kind of pope, all together.

He's a different kind of pope.

And STOP calling me SHIRLEY!!!....And I aint payin no 50 cents for no coke either!


Ehhh... then you ain't gettin' no coke, Betty... huh? Oh... Shirley.
 
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