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(Mirror.co.uk)   How will The Doctor pick up his new 20-something set of boobs? Will there be any good souffle recipes? And why does the Doctor have a motorcycle? Are motorcycles cool now? It's Doctor Who: 'The Bells of St. John', 8 PM on BBC America   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 221
    More: Interesting, Doctor Who, boobs, physicians, St. John, souffle, whovians, recipes  
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3074 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Mar 2013 at 7:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-30 08:50:48 AM  
And here on the eve of the rest of the season, major spoilers about the 50th Anniversary special were leaked because some subscribers got their copies of next week's Doctor Who magazine early.

The news is over at www.bleedingcool.com . I'm not even linking to the damn article, because the url gives the spoilers away.

So, uh, go there at your own risk.

Anyway, the beginning of the girl out of time tonight. Ace 2.0.

i3.mirror.co.uk

...is that a towel attached to oven mitts?
 
2013-03-30 09:59:12 AM  
Thanks for the warning. Media blackout commencing for today then. Except for Fark, that is.

/Still bummed over the Christmas spoiling of Downton Abby season finale
//Nobody better spoil tomorrow's Game of Thrones, either
 
2013-03-30 10:45:58 AM  
Don't watch it on BBC America. They cut it to pieces, interrupt it with commercials every 8 minutes, etc. It messes up the flow of the show. Something exciting is about happen then all the sudden they cut to commercials about life insurance. Just download it illegally or wait a couple days and rent it uncut in HD thru Amazon streaming.
 
2013-03-30 11:00:15 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: And here on the eve of the rest of the season, major spoilers about the 50th Anniversary special were leaked because some subscribers got their copies of next week's Doctor Who magazine early.


If you didn't see that coming then.....
 
2013-03-30 11:03:05 AM  

johnnieconnie: Nobody better spoil tomorrow's Game of Thrones, either


A lot of people have sex and die...and not always in that order.

/rosebud was his sled!
 
2013-03-30 11:03:57 AM  

Walker: Just download it illegally or wait a couple days and rent it uncut in HD thru Amazon streaming.


I have an Amazon season pass and a gift card. I'll get it tomorrow, and squee with delight.
 
2013-03-30 11:20:42 AM  
Spoiler: The writing, not the new Tardis Boobs Accessory, will be vapid and brainless.

We went back and watched the Eccleston and first two Tennant seasons last week to introduce my parents to the show. While there were a few dicey ones in those, and while there have been one or two gems recently, overall the writing on the past dozen episodes or two has been a pale ghost of those.
 
2013-03-30 12:30:31 PM  
The neatest thing I learned was that naming Oswin 'Clara' was in honor of Elisabeth Sladen.

/blackout due to party
//motherfarking cancer sucks!
 
2013-03-30 12:34:33 PM  
A) Will there be running in this episode?
B) Where are they getting the milk for the souffles?

/Based on the end of the fall, I guess we aren't getting my "Season 8 is a heartbroken Rory as the villain"
//With FNB's (I believe) "A twisted deformed Adric pulling the strings"
 
2013-03-30 01:09:43 PM  

johnnieconnie: Thanks for the warning. Media blackout commencing for today then. Except for Fark, that is.

/Still bummed over the Christmas spoiling of Downton Abby season finale
//Nobody better spoil tomorrow's Game of Thrones, either


Robb Stark turns Joffery Lannister into an Other.
 
2013-03-30 01:55:49 PM  

unlikely: Spoiler: The writing, not the new Tardis Boobs Accessory, will be vapid and brainless.

We went back and watched the Eccleston and first two Tennant seasons last week to introduce my parents to the show. While there were a few dicey ones in those, and while there have been one or two gems recently, overall the writing on the past dozen episodes or two has been a pale ghost of those.


Yeah I caught some of the Eccleston eps again, and damn it I wish there had been more.
 
2013-03-30 03:12:14 PM  

unlikely: Spoiler: The writing, not the new Tardis Boobs Accessory, will be vapid and brainless.

We went back and watched the Eccleston and first two Tennant seasons last week to introduce my parents to the show. While there were a few dicey ones in those, and while there have been one or two gems recently, overall the writing on the past dozen episodes or two has been a pale ghost of those.




Really? Then I guess you won't have to watch it!

If there was anything more vapid and empty as RoseTyler, THE MOST IMPORTANT GIRL EVER IN DOCTOR WHO's LIFE! I'd like to know.

Seriously, Doctor Who has been enjoying its biggest ratings since the Reboot. Now with a new mysterious companion, off we go!
 
2013-03-30 04:51:35 PM  
Is this the thread?

/Is this a bookmark?
 
2013-03-30 05:01:46 PM  

unlikely: Spoiler: The writing, not the new Tardis Boobs Accessory, will be vapid and brainless.


Am I the only one who read that as "vapid and braless"?

Should I feel bad now?
 
2013-03-30 05:10:13 PM  
fark yeah
 
2013-03-30 05:14:49 PM  
Solid ep with a possible spoilery villain.  No real info on Oswin though.


/Snog box
 
2013-03-30 05:17:14 PM  

Anderson's Pooper: Solid ep with a possible spoilery villain.  No real info on Oswin though.


/Snog box


It's the appetizer. Yes, good ep but I am definately missing the 1 1/2 hour sows of the old days. It could have been so much more developed.
On the other hand, instead of 30 minutes a week it's 42ish.
 
2013-03-30 06:57:04 PM  

Anderson's Pooper: Solid ep with a possible spoilery villain.  No real info on Oswin though.


/Snog box


The 'big reveal' is that this Clara is not super brainy, unlike the other two we've seen. since she couldn't even sort out her wifi, until she got a brain boost from the uploading and downloading. Presumably she's kept the boosted IQ.Does that mean the other versions are 'later' copies of her?  Is this River Song 2.0 again where we've seen a character at a far later point in her timeline?
 
2013-03-30 07:12:03 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Anderson's Pooper: Solid ep with a possible spoilery villain.  No real info on Oswin though.


/Snog box

The 'big reveal' is that this Clara is not super brainy, unlike the other two we've seen. since she couldn't even sort out her wifi, until she got a brain boost from the uploading and downloading. Presumably she's kept the boosted IQ.Does that mean the other versions are 'later' copies of her?  Is this River Song 2.0 again where we've seen a character at a far later point in her timeline?


She remembered stuff from Asylum to Snowmen but didn't seem to have any recollection of those eps in this one.  We've had some previous companions who weren't that smart and they turned out all right (Leela).  As to keeping her boosted IQ, I assume she got reset to factory specs like everybody else.
 
2013-03-30 07:21:08 PM  
Spoilers........
Stll 45 minutes til BBCA.

THe Bells of St. Johns was pretty clever. I realised what it was just before it was really obvious.

And watch this before you start thinking you have Oswin figured out yet.

//watching it again.
 
2013-03-30 07:21:48 PM  
 
2013-03-30 07:35:12 PM  

Flint Ironstag: The 'big reveal' is that this Clara is not super brainy,


No, they say she's clever. She just doesn't know computers. They give her an upgrade that she gets to keep later in the episode. It's kind of a plot point with a twitter joke.
 
2013-03-30 07:42:26 PM  
My feeling on the episode was kind of "meh".  Can't really put my finger on a specific reason for why.
 
2013-03-30 07:43:09 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com

More than twenty-two posts and no one has protested that they are Dalek bumps, and not boobs?
 
2013-03-30 07:52:34 PM  

cretinbob: On the other hand, instead of 30 minutes a week it's 42ish.


42 you say?

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-30 07:55:18 PM  

johnnieconnie: Thanks for the warning. Media blackout commencing for today then. Except for Fark, that is.

/Still bummed over the Christmas spoiling of Downton Abby season finale
//Nobody better spoil tomorrow's Game of Thrones, either


Jon Snow rides south on his wolf, and kills Tyrion.
 
2013-03-30 07:58:31 PM  
Is BBCA doing the thing they've done with a few episodes recently with showing them un-shortened during the first run, or are they chopping the crap out of it?
 
2013-03-30 07:59:49 PM  
It's time.
 
2013-03-30 08:03:59 PM  
My assumption with Clara is that the original version of her that the Doctor first met, actually infected all of the conversion nanobots on that Dalek prison planet just before it exploded. I figure they all carried copies of her personality and knowledge, and got scattered to the 4 winds when the planet blew up.

I think perhaps there is a nano-bot that got loose on Earth and is continually re-creating Clara. When a version dies, it makes a new one. And the knowledge continues to be passed on along with that.
 
2013-03-30 08:05:02 PM  
Huh, the Doctor's a pretty good painter
 
2013-03-30 08:10:23 PM  

cptjeff: Huh, the Doctor's a pretty good painter


You would be, too, if you had 1000 years to practice.

/and 27 brains
 
2013-03-30 08:15:16 PM  
If that's not creepy, I don't know what is.
 
2013-03-30 08:15:42 PM  
Monks are not cool!
 
2013-03-30 08:16:54 PM  
As a dumb American, with a Clara Oswin adventures opening, I don't know what I'm watching.

/DW YEA!
 
2013-03-30 08:21:28 PM  
So, River works in the shop now?
 
2013-03-30 08:21:32 PM  

jack21221: Monks are not cool!


I'm just disappointed that the Doctor wears a clip on. I'd suspected it for a long time, because the ones they have Matt Smith wear were mostly fairly obvious to those of us who actually wear bowties, but now it's official.
 
2013-03-30 08:22:07 PM  

TheManofPA: So, River works in the shop now?


Well, for the three minutes she needed to, anyhow.
 
2013-03-30 08:23:32 PM  
Doctor Who, presented by AT&T: With the quality of our coverage, you won't have to worry about getting uploaded to the Internet.
 
2013-03-30 08:23:38 PM  
So she didn't own the book when she was 23?
 
2013-03-30 08:24:56 PM  
No mention of the Amy Pond easter egg yet?
 
2013-03-30 08:25:13 PM  
Today's  Creepy Stalker Doctor Who Really Totally Doesn't Want to Have Sex With Clara Oswald (Honestly, Folks, He Doesn't!) episode just wasn't very good.

/saw it on BBCtorrent -- much better than BBCamerica.
 
2013-03-30 08:25:25 PM  
Please tell me I missed one episode before this season started
 
2013-03-30 08:25:32 PM  

texdent: So she didn't own the book when she was 23?


I did not notice that!

Bet it'll be important later.
 
2013-03-30 08:26:13 PM  
So did BBC America go with the "My name is _____ and this is my story!" opening again, or are we done with that?
 
2013-03-30 08:26:59 PM  

silgryphon: Please tell me I missed one episode before this season started


Did you see the Christmas episode? That's the only one.
 
2013-03-30 08:27:09 PM  

sirbissel: So did BBC America go with the "My name is _____ and this is my story!" opening again, or are we done with that?


Done with that.
 
2013-03-30 08:27:54 PM  

jack21221: silgryphon: Please tell me I missed one episode before this season started

Did you see the Christmas episode? That's the only one.


Yes I did

So good, good thing I was surfing the TV
 
2013-03-30 08:31:19 PM  

sirbissel: So did BBC America go with the "My name is _____ and this is my story!" opening again, or are we done with that?


They did not, thankfully.
 
2013-03-30 08:31:27 PM  

TheManofPA: So, River works in the shop now?


My vote was Sally Sparrow.
 
2013-03-30 08:33:42 PM  

TheManofPA: So, River works in the shop now?


The TARDIS could have intercepted the call. She did that when Churchill tried to call the Doctor and spoke to River instead.
 
2013-03-30 08:33:58 PM  

RevMercutio: TheManofPA: So, River works in the shop now?

My vote was Sally Sparrow.


Ooh, that's a cool one.

Probably not Vastra. She would be noticed, but she would be able to recognize Clara.
 
2013-03-30 08:36:39 PM  
It's the fez!
 
2013-03-30 08:38:59 PM  
At least they went with a Triumph. A Norton would have been cooler.
 
2013-03-30 08:39:15 PM  

silgryphon: jack21221: silgryphon: Please tell me I missed one episode before this season started

Did you see the Christmas episode? That's the only one.

Yes I did

So good, good thing I was surfing the TV


They showed what I assumed was a webisode or something about the Doctor on a swingset, talking with some young girl about how they lose things. (Him obviously referencing Oswin.) The kid recommends that he go somewhere quiet to think or something, which seems to be what leads to the whole monk thing.
 
2013-03-30 08:39:38 PM  
Loved the episode, but who is the mastermind behind the wifi mind robbers?
 
2013-03-30 08:42:01 PM  
This is a bizzare episode
 
2013-03-30 08:42:38 PM  

hangingbrautwurst: Loved the episode, but who is the mastermind behind the wifi mind robbers?


The Great Intelligence
 
2013-03-30 08:43:38 PM  
Was I watching "Doctor Who" or "Stalker Who"? It was a fun-but-daft episode, but the little bit of obsession is creepy. Still, I'm glad we've got a companion who can actually outdo the Doctor from time to time. I never liked the Doctor picking up shopgirls. At least Clara is a mystery, a puzzle-box. It's within the Doctor's character to not put her down until she's been opened.

NOT LIKE THAT.

hangingbrautwurst: Loved the episode, but who is the mastermind behind the wifi mind robbers?


The Great Intelligence appeared in the Christmas Special, and prior to that was last seen invading the London Underground with robotic Yeti. You sort of had to be there.
 
2013-03-30 08:44:02 PM  

hangingbrautwurst: Loved the episode, but who is the mastermind behind the wifi mind robbers?


The same thing behind the snowmen from Christmas... and the Yeti from the 1960s (2nd Doctor).
 
2013-03-30 08:44:12 PM  
Hey wifi thief boss, that newsreader can be seen by more people then the Doctor.

/It was a solid episode
 
2013-03-30 08:47:52 PM  

t3knomanser: hangingbrautwurst: Loved the episode, but who is the mastermind behind the wifi mind robbers?

The Great Intelligence appeared in the Christmas Special, and prior to that was last seen invading the London Underground with robotic Yeti. You sort of had to be there.



Well, from the Great Intelligence's point of view, that happened after the Christmas Special. Probably after this, too.
 
2013-03-30 08:48:42 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

Approves
 
2013-03-30 08:49:32 PM  
That's bad ass
 
2013-03-30 08:49:55 PM  
Okay, that's badass.
 
2013-03-30 08:50:41 PM  
Now it's becoming an A-HA video?
 
2013-03-30 08:52:57 PM  

cptjeff: Well, from the Great Intelligence's point of view, that happened after the Christmas Special. Probably after this, too.


I think the GI is experiencing time linearly. So after the 2013 Christmas Special, the next time he appears is with the Yeti in the Himalayas, and then eventually in the London Underground. By this time, he's become quite wary of the Doctor.
 
2013-03-30 08:57:15 PM  
Ok that's creepy with the little girl voice
 
2013-03-30 08:58:11 PM  
I can't speak for later airings but this airing on BBCA doesn't seem cut to shiat
 
2013-03-30 08:58:41 PM  
Just watched it.  Called the Great Intelligence and that future Dalek Clara was brain boosted from the wifi upload.  Also want to know who gave her the TARDIS number.

I thought the episode was well paced, intelligent and the twist of that not being the Doctor at The Shard was one that caused me to say "Should have seen that coming."
 
2013-03-30 08:59:28 PM  
I loved the homage to Amy Pond in this episode.
 
2013-03-30 09:01:03 PM  

Nefarious: I can't speak for later airings but this airing on BBCA doesn't seem cut to shiat


This season they had been showing the full thing first time around, cut to shiat version for subsequent airings. Seems like they continued that tonight.
 
2013-03-30 09:02:39 PM  

Nefarious: I can't speak for later airings but this airing on BBCA doesn't seem cut to shiat


It's cut a bit. I only watched the second half, but UNIT's initial appearance was cut.
 
2013-03-30 09:03:43 PM  

fusillade762: cretinbob: On the other hand, instead of 30 minutes a week it's 42ish.

42 you say?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 460x300]


Did you catch the Dirk Gently reference in this episode?
 
2013-03-30 09:04:13 PM  
Great episode, though I couldn't watch that woman and not see Judi Dench.  I also need to rename my wifi network.
 
2013-03-30 09:05:02 PM  

cretinbob: fusillade762: cretinbob: On the other hand, instead of 30 minutes a week it's 42ish.

42 you say?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 460x300]

Did you catch the Dirk Gently reference in this episode?


I missed that one, though it's been a while since I read the Dirk Gently stuff. Can I get a spoiler here?
 
2013-03-30 09:09:19 PM  

Crackers Are a Family Food: I also need to rename my wifi network.


The Star Wars characters aren't part of the Unicode character set.

cptjeff: I missed that one, though it's been a while since I read the Dirk Gently stuff.


I just read both the Gently books, and totally missed the reference. But I missed most of the Gently books, too. Like, I read them, but farked if I can tell you what actually happens in them. Did I somehow miss a sofa getting stuck in the TARDIS stairwell?
 
2013-03-30 09:12:47 PM  

Girion47: I loved the homage to Amy Pond in this episode.


I'm glad someone else caught that. I thought it was a nice touch.
 
2013-03-30 09:13:09 PM  

t3knomanser: I think the GI is experiencing time linearly. So after the 2013 Christmas Special, the next time he appears is with the Yeti in the Himalayas, and then eventually in the London Underground. By this time, he's become quite wary of the Doctor


yes
 
2013-03-30 09:14:18 PM  

cptjeff: cretinbob: fusillade762: cretinbob: On the other hand, instead of 30 minutes a week it's 42ish.

42 you say?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 460x300]

Did you catch the Dirk Gently reference in this episode?

I missed that one, though it's been a while since I read the Dirk Gently stuff. Can I get a spoiler here?


At the beginning when the bells of St. John were ringing...pick it up, pick it up, pick it up........
 
2013-03-30 09:16:18 PM  

cretinbob: pick it up, pick it up, pick it up


But Clara's head wasn't spinning on a turntable at the time. How would you expect anyone to notice that reference?
 
2013-03-30 09:18:35 PM  
Looking ahead, there is a quote in this episode that seems to hint at the listed villain for the finale/season.
 
2013-03-30 09:25:14 PM  
Interesting episode. Pretty sure we're going to find that River was the "girl at the shop" that gave her the help number. So we know the villain is going to be the Great Intelligence. Near the end when the woman in charge is mentions that she's heard the GI whispering in her ear for so long, hits the factory reset button and reverts to a little girl, I wonder if we'll get to meet that little girl. And what exactly is the GI's typical MO? What exactly does it want and why?
 
2013-03-30 09:25:36 PM  

Anderson's Pooper: Flint Ironstag: Anderson's Pooper: Solid ep with a possible spoilery villain.  No real info on Oswin though.


/Snog box

The 'big reveal' is that this Clara is not super brainy, unlike the other two we've seen. since she couldn't even sort out her wifi, until she got a brain boost from the uploading and downloading. Presumably she's kept the boosted IQ.Does that mean the other versions are 'later' copies of her?  Is this River Song 2.0 again where we've seen a character at a far later point in her timeline?

She remembered stuff from Asylum to Snowmen but didn't seem to have any recollection of those eps in this one.  We've had some previous companions who weren't that smart and they turned out all right (Leela).  As to keeping her boosted IQ, I assume she got reset to factory specs like everybody else.


I think the "factory reset" thing was with the people working there, rather than the minds they collected. They all collapsed and couldn't remember anything which didn't happen to Clara, so I assume she'll keep the upgrade.
 
2013-03-30 09:27:14 PM  

sirbissel: My feeling on the episode was kind of "meh".  Can't really put my finger on a specific reason for why.


75% new companion set up, 25% story? It seemed like the actual story part reached conclusion really quickly.
 
2013-03-30 09:27:32 PM  

cptjeff: TheManofPA: So, River works in the shop now?

Well, for the three minutes she needed to, anyhow.


Wait, what?  I didn't see River.... or was the black girl Melody?
 
2013-03-30 09:30:26 PM  

dopekitty74: cptjeff: TheManofPA: So, River works in the shop now?

Well, for the three minutes she needed to, anyhow.

Wait, what?  I didn't see River.... or was the black girl Melody?


Well Clara said a "girl in the shop" gave her the Doctor's number and told her it was "the best help in the universe". It never explicitly mentioned River, but it's a pretty fair guess. How many other people are going to have the Doctor's phone number and would just give it to someone?

Also, is it just me or is Clara smoking freaking hot?
 
2013-03-30 09:33:53 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: It never explicitly mentioned River, but it's a pretty fair guess.


Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the girl in the shop was Clara. In fact, the Great Intelligence is also Clara. So is the Doctor. And Rassilon. THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE IS CLARA.
 
2013-03-30 09:34:10 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Also, is it just me or is Clara smoking freaking hot?


At least according to Wikipedia, it's a shame she's dating Rob Stark.

/GoT-DW babies!
 
2013-03-30 09:38:27 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: dopekitty74: cptjeff: TheManofPA: So, River works in the shop now?

Well, for the three minutes she needed to, anyhow.

Wait, what?  I didn't see River.... or was the black girl Melody?

Well Clara said a "girl in the shop" gave her the Doctor's number and told her it was "the best help in the universe". It never explicitly mentioned River, but it's a pretty fair guess. How many other people are going to have the Doctor's phone number and would just give it to someone?

Also, is it just me or is Clara smoking freaking hot?


Ok, right.. i had the same thought about the help number conversation.  I thought the poster i was responding to was referring to river working at the coffee shop, and the black girl did kinda look a bit like the melody character (it's been a while since i saw the Let's Kill Hitler episode)
 
2013-03-30 09:39:27 PM  

JPINFV: sirbissel: My feeling on the episode was kind of "meh".  Can't really put my finger on a specific reason for why.

75% new companion set up, 25% story? It seemed like the actual story part reached conclusion really quickly.


Definitely felt a bit like half an episode, but the pacing and interaction was good enough I'm not in the mood to complain. They really seem intent on fleshing out Oswin as someone who the doctor has an actual reason to invite along before they make her fully jump into the companion role.

One weakness of NuWho (and I speak as someone who has only scratched the surface of the old stuff) has been that they rely on everyone else talking about how awesome/special this random tagalong is after they're in the TARDIS. In this case, the Doctor actually has a reason to be intrigued that's been shown to us, rather than told.
 
2013-03-30 09:43:08 PM  
My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.
 
2013-03-30 09:43:20 PM  

Jensaarai: In this case, the Doctor actually has a reason to be intrigued that's been shown to us, rather than told.


The puzzlebox nature of this companion does justify the Doctor's obsession. He does like a puzzle, this one. Oddly, this one felt very much like an RTD-era episode, to me. The heavy flirting. The high camp (jumping to the airliner and the antigrav motorcycle, the scenery-chewing villains). It wasn't bad, but it felt like a rewind to 2006, or so.

I am still digging the new credits, though, which are a nice homage to the 60s-era credits.
 
2013-03-30 09:49:53 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Interesting episode. Pretty sure we're going to find that River was the "girl at the shop" that gave her the help number. So we know the villain is going to be the Great Intelligence. Near the end when the woman in charge is mentions that she's heard the GI whispering in her ear for so long, hits the factory reset button and reverts to a little girl, I wonder if we'll get to meet that little girl. And what exactly is the GI's typical MO? What exactly does it want and why?


It wanted the Doctor's body in Web of Fear... Not really sure what it was trying to do in The Abominable Snowmen.

JPINFV: sirbissel: My feeling on the episode was kind of "meh".  Can't really put my finger on a specific reason for why.

75% new companion set up, 25% story? It seemed like the actual story part reached conclusion really quickly.


Yeah, that's probably what it was.   I'm hoping it's the weakest of the next half-season.
 
2013-03-30 09:56:07 PM  

sirbissel: It wanted the Doctor's body mind in Web of Fear...


FTFY. It was planning on draining his mind.
 
2013-03-30 09:59:07 PM  

t3knomanser: cretinbob: pick it up, pick it up, pick it up

But Clara's head wasn't spinning on a turntable at the time. How would you expect anyone to notice that reference?


You'd have to have read the book. The number of times she repeats it is what makes me think it was a baldfaced reference rather than just a coincidence.
Of course I was trying to find the exact spot and can't now.

www.elevationnetworks.org
Also if you don't get the reference of St. John, between  1113 and 1309  the were know as Hospitallers of St. John of Jerusalem . So in 1207 the monks would have recognized the symbol, since they were Benedictine monks. It was another 300 years until the Protestant Reformation.
 
2013-03-30 10:01:07 PM  

t3knomanser: I am still digging the new credits, though, which are a nice homage to the 60s-era credits.


And the 80's credits (face fade). You can hear the original theme coming back through as well.
 
2013-03-30 10:06:18 PM  
I saw a nod to Baker with the scarf, I heard some snark at Tennant with being on chapter 10 & "11 is the best".. I missed the nod to Pond everyones talking about. Wha'd I miss?
 
2013-03-30 10:07:27 PM  

Pawn takes the King: I saw a nod to Baker with the scarf, I heard some snark at Tennant with being on chapter 10 & "11 is the best".. I missed the nod to Pond everyones talking about. Wha'd I miss?


The book she was reading was by Amelia Williams.
 
2013-03-30 10:08:26 PM  

cretinbob: You'd have to have read the book.


I have. Just a few weeks ago, actually. Which is why I referenced a head spinning on a turntable. It's sort of a big part of the story. I'd tell you to read it, but it's a bit of a hot potato.
 
2013-03-30 10:10:07 PM  

t3knomanser: Jensaarai: In this case, the Doctor actually has a reason to be intrigued that's been shown to us, rather than told.

The puzzlebox nature of this companion does justify the Doctor's obsession. He does like a puzzle, this one. Oddly, this one felt very much like an RTD-era episode, to me. The heavy flirting. The high camp (jumping to the airliner and the antigrav motorcycle, the scenery-chewing villains). It wasn't bad, but it felt like a rewind to 2006, or so.

I am still digging the new credits, though, which are a nice homage to the 60s-era credits.


Yeah, the new theme song is very reminiscent of the 60s. Kinda miss the Tardis traveling through a wormhole while getting thrown about, though.

Also - Clara's theme, "Climbing the Clouds," is just downright beautiful.
 
2013-03-30 10:16:53 PM  

sirbissel: Pawn takes the King: I saw a nod to Baker with the scarf, I heard some snark at Tennant with being on chapter 10 & "11 is the best".. I missed the nod to Pond everyones talking about. Wha'd I miss?

The book she was reading was by Amelia Williams.


Ha! Didn't even pay attention to the author, thanks!
 
2013-03-30 10:25:04 PM  

Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.


River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.
 
2013-03-30 10:26:54 PM  
Is this the thread where we all gather to pretend the Doctor can just keep respawning infinitely like a hacked Mario game?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/oct/12/doctor-who-immort al -reveals-bbc
http://thedoctorwhopodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=427.0
 
2013-03-30 10:29:35 PM  

Lusiphur: At least they went with a Triumph. A Norton would have been cooler.


Vincent Black Lightning 1952
 
2013-03-30 10:35:38 PM  

HotWingAgenda: Is this the thread where we all gather to pretend the Doctor can just keep respawning infinitely like a hacked Mario game?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/oct/12/doctor-who-immort al -reveals-bbc
http://thedoctorwhopodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=427.0


I kinda took the comment in the Sarah Jane Adventures as a joke-- or at least as a "Shut the hell up with the questions"
 
2013-03-30 10:36:14 PM  

Pawn takes the King: I saw a nod to Baker with the scarf, I heard some snark at Tennant with being on chapter 10 & "11 is the best".. I missed the nod to Pond everyones talking about. Wha'd I miss?


Sure looked like Ace's leather jacket, but without the patches.
 
2013-03-30 10:45:15 PM  

RevMercutio: Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.

River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.


Yes, yes, and there can only be 13 Doctors. ;)

They totally don't disregard random limitations whenever they want.
 
2013-03-30 11:23:44 PM  

t3knomanser: Jensaarai: In this case, the Doctor actually has a reason to be intrigued that's been shown to us, rather than told.

The puzzlebox nature of this companion does justify the Doctor's obsession. He does like a puzzle, this one. Oddly, this one felt very much like an RTD-era episode, to me. The heavy flirting. The high camp (jumping to the airliner and the antigrav motorcycle, the scenery-chewing villains). It wasn't bad, but it felt like a rewind to 2006, or so.

I am still digging the new credits, though, which are a nice homage to the 60s-era credits.

 The intrigue makes sense.  The only way to have multiple people show up in multiple places would involve some kind of time travel or universe manipulation which would definitely interest the Doctor. However, he seems a bit overly obsessed with it. I guess it's because this is the first companion after how horrible he felt with Amy and Rory. But he's at it again, luring another companion to satisfy his curiosity just like he did with Amy. You think he would have learned.
 
2013-03-30 11:41:59 PM  

RevMercutio: Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.

River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.


There are ways around that. Say, when the library saved her, it somehow restored things. Or if something dumps a lot of time energy into the library computer to get it to recreate her body... You know, somehow.

Let's just say that I don't think River is out for the count.
 
2013-03-31 12:42:18 AM  
Loved it!
 
2013-03-31 01:30:08 AM  

cptjeff: RevMercutio: Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.

River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.

There are ways around that. Say, when the library saved her, it somehow restored things. Or if something dumps a lot of time energy into the library computer to get it to recreate her body... You know, somehow.

Let's just say that I don't think River is out for the count.m




No, she's done. It's the whole point of her character. The doctor and Rivers relationship is in reverse.
 
2013-03-31 01:37:34 AM  

Walker: Don't watch it on BBC America. They cut it to pieces, interrupt it with commercials every 8 minutes, etc. It messes up the flow of the show. Something exciting is about happen then all the sudden they cut to commercials about life insurance. Just download it illegally or wait a couple days and rent it uncut in HD thru Amazon streaming.


Not to mention they cut the preview for next weeks show.

/watched both the BBC America and BBC 1 version tonight
 
2013-03-31 01:40:56 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: No, she's done. It's the whole point of her character. The doctor and Rivers relationship is in reverse.


I've always understood it to be more of a jumble, hence the implied comparing of notes every time. Regardless, it's never been made explicit, which means that the writers can do whatever the fark they want to do with it. If they decide River is done, whatever, they write that. If they decide they want to bring her back stronger than ever as full timelord, there are relatively easy ways to do that too.

You're making definitive declarations about something that hasn't been decided definitively yet, much less boxed into any sort of real corner within the context of the show.
 
2013-03-31 01:41:06 AM  
The woman in the shop gave her the Doctor's "help line." Didn't Rose have a phone that could call the Doctor?
 
2013-03-31 01:49:12 AM  

CigaretteSmokingMan: The woman in the shop gave her the Doctor's "help line." Didn't Rose have a phone that could call the Doctor?


Rose is in an alternate universe. I'd like to think it was a former companion or, like someone mentioned, Sally Sparrow.

In all, I liked this episode. A couple of nice callbacks, U.N.I.T., JLC can actually act while looking good, etc. Going into the episode, I kind of thought the premise of "something in the wi-fi was a little hokey, but it was done really well. I was also pleased to see Richard E. Grant's face as the Great Intelligence again.
 
2013-03-31 01:49:53 AM  

cptjeff: RevMercutio: Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.

River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.

There are ways around that. Say, when the library saved her, it somehow restored things. Or if something dumps a lot of time energy into the library computer to get it to recreate her body... You know, somehow.

Let's just say that I don't think River is out for the count.


I'm hoping she is. If her last episode ends with the Doctor giving the screwdriver and then leaving her to visit the library, it is a very nice little arc. Mind you the other argument is that he's the Doctor, he's gone hundreds of years at this point, and he'll damn make sure that everybody lives given that amount of time.
 
2013-03-31 01:51:30 AM  

gingerjet: Walker: Don't watch it on BBC America. They cut it to pieces, interrupt it with commercials every 8 minutes, etc. It messes up the flow of the show. Something exciting is about happen then all the sudden they cut to commercials about life insurance. Just download it illegally or wait a couple days and rent it uncut in HD thru Amazon streaming.

Not to mention they cut the preview for next weeks show.

/watched both the BBC America and BBC 1 version tonight


I went with expat (though risky) and BBC's iplayer.
 
2013-03-31 02:06:13 AM  
I'm shocked that everyone has missed the most critical and controversial element of this episode:  the Doctor wears a clip on bow tie.

/the Who universe is now shaken to its core
 
2013-03-31 02:09:58 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Is this the thread where we all gather to pretend the Doctor can just keep respawning infinitely like a hacked Mario game?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/oct/12/doctor-who-immort al -reveals-bbc
http://thedoctorwhopodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=427.0


There's already been at least four different ways the Doctor can get more regenerations established in the series so far:

1. The Time Lords enforced the regeneration limit, so with them gone the cap is no longer there

2. The Time Lords reset the cycles for everyone fighting in the Time War, which makes sense because it would give them more effective warriors against the Daleks. This has already been established to have happened with The Master, since he was able regenerate normally after long having used up his regenerations.

3. Absorbing the Heart of the TARDIS from Rose gave the Doctor a new set of regenerations, since being exposed to the same time energy reverted the female Slitheen to an egg.

4. River only used up two of her regenerations, so if she gave her remaining ones to the Doctor, he would now have 10 left, assuming she has the same limit.

And those are all without pulling something out of left field.
 
2013-03-31 02:30:52 AM  

gingerjet: I'm shocked that everyone has missed the most critical and controversial element of this episode:  the Doctor wears a clip on bow tie.

/the Who universe is now shaken to its core


Everyone missed this, you say?

cptjeff: jack21221: Monks are not cool!

I'm just disappointed that the Doctor wears a clip on. I'd suspected it for a long time, because the ones they have Matt Smith wear were mostly fairly obvious to those of us who actually wear bowties, but now it's official.


Yeah, I'm disappointed. It was in one of the previews, so I knew it was coming, but still. Really? They're not that hard to tie, and the Doctor has never really struck me as the clip on type. More the 'make things obnoxiously complicated and weird' type. Hence the scarf. And the clown suit. And the cape. And the flute. And the cane. And the decorative vegetable. But it's been obvious that it's a clip on for a while now (for the non-bowtie savvy out there, they really are that obvious), so it's not like this is a great revelation.
 
2013-03-31 02:43:02 AM  
Haven't read the thread yet since I haven't finished watching the ep, but I did I see the Doctor's flatmate from "The Lodger" on a screen to the right of Clara's in the "soul cloud" thingy?
 
2013-03-31 03:05:44 AM  

TheManofPA: cptjeff: RevMercutio: Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.

River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.

There are ways around that. Say, when the library saved her, it somehow restored things. Or if something dumps a lot of time energy into the library computer to get it to recreate her body... You know, somehow.

Let's just say that I don't think River is out for the count.

I'm hoping she is. If her last episode ends with the Doctor giving the screwdriver and then leaving her to visit the library, it is a very nice little arc. Mind you the other argument is that he's the Doctor, he's gone hundreds of years at this point, and he'll damn make sure that everybody lives given that amount of time.


I think that's happened already, if you've seen "Last Night" (one of the mini episodes)
 
2013-03-31 03:24:40 AM  
Motorcycles have always been cool.
 
2013-03-31 03:24:58 AM  
FAIR WARNING: SOME SPOILERS IN MY REPLIES BELOW.
Also haven't seen the episode yet.

TrollDerpistan: My assumption with Clara is that the original version of her that the Doctor first met, actually infected all of the conversion nanobots on that Dalek prison planet just before it exploded. I figure they all carried copies of her personality and knowledge, and got scattered to the 4 winds when the planet blew up.

I think perhaps there is a nano-bot that got loose on Earth and is continually re-creating Clara. When a version dies, it makes a new one. And the knowledge continues to be passed on along with that.


Not bad. Not bad.


cptjeff: jack21221: Monks are not cool!

I'm just disappointed that the Doctor wears a clip on. I'd suspected it for a long time, because the ones they have Matt Smith wear were mostly fairly obvious to those of us who actually wear bowties, but now it's official.


I'm sorry, but that is just 10,000 kinds of wrong. There's no excuse for it. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Dingleberry Dickwad: Well Clara said a "girl in the shop" gave her the Doctor's number and told her it was "the best help in the universe". It never explicitly mentioned River, but it's a pretty fair guess. How many other people are going to have the Doctor's phone number and would just give it to someone?


Well, considering Rose is in the 50th anniversary special, and she keeps popping up in our universe, that's a possibility. Plus, why would early-20s Clara refer to 40-something River as a "girl"?

Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.


She's have to have amnesia. There's no reason a post-library River wouldn't identify herself to the Doctor. (And don't say "spoilers!")

Darth_Lukecash: No, she's done. It's the whole point of her character. The doctor and Rivers relationship is in reverse.


1) They don't meet in reverse, they meet out of order, and they've figured out over time that their meetings have mostly been in the opposite order. A few super-geeks have diagrammed the order in which they meet. Each diagram has some errors (OK, yes, I too am a super-geek), not all of them follow through to River's most recent appearance, and not all of them are very well laid out, but if you can handle the headache here they are:

http://i.imgur.com/jjxG4DT.jpg
http://willbrooks.deviantart.com/art/River-Song-Timeline-Series-4-7a- 2 88713635
http://i.imgur.com/PP1OWHe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/te0xYFW.jpg
 
2013-03-31 03:26:13 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: She'sd have to have amnesia.


FTFM.
 
2013-03-31 04:10:25 AM  

t3knomanser: cretinbob: You'd have to have read the book.

I have. Just a few weeks ago, actually. Which is why I referenced a head spinning on a turntable. It's sort of a big part of the story. I'd tell you to read it, but it's a bit of a hot potato.


lulz
 
2013-03-31 04:18:55 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: cptjeff: RevMercutio: Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.

River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.

There are ways around that. Say, when the library saved her, it somehow restored things. Or if something dumps a lot of time energy into the library computer to get it to recreate her body... You know, somehow.

Let's just say that I don't think River is out for the count.m

No, she's done. It's the whole point of her character. The doctor and Rivers relationship is in reverse.


Exactly. If ever the Doctor sees her again, she won't remember him at all, and will regard him as a stranger.
 
2013-03-31 04:44:52 AM  
I think that she didn't get the phone number from anyone, but rather just knew it because, since her previous life at the end remembered everything, she is in fact part of the Doctor. At least this is my thought on it.

Doctor gets exposed to nano-cloud in the Asylum (because he gave Amy his watch-thingy). Oswin tells him to remember, and he gets Spocked by that. Takes those nanocloud bits back into the TARDIS with him and they sorta get spread around the universe, helped by his regeneration energy or some other thing.

So there'll probably be more Claras around, and they'll all die alot (Clara died two times this episode - she's like Kenny from South Park now).
 
2013-03-31 05:25:00 AM  

LavenderWolf: Darth_Lukecash: cptjeff: No, she's done. It's the whole point of her character. The doctor and Rivers relationship is in reverse.

Exactly. If ever the Doctor sees her again, she won't remember him at all, and will regard him as a stranger.


As noted above, they don't live their lives opposite each other. Look up their timelines. They cross at various points - hence their diary-syncing. If they always met in opposite order, there'd be no need for the diary-syncing.
 
2013-03-31 05:35:35 AM  

NeoCortex42: No mention of the Amy Pond easter egg yet?


The author of the book?
 
2013-03-31 05:46:31 AM  

Lusiphur: A Norton would have been cooler.

a reference to antivirus which would have fitted into the general computer theme.
 
2013-03-31 06:04:03 AM  

fusillade762: did I see the Doctor's flatmate from "The Lodger" on a screen to the right of Clara's in the "soul cloud" thingy?


No, though I thought the same at first, but it wasn't him.
 
2013-03-31 06:21:32 AM  
Did anyone else get an "Idiot's Lantern" vibe? All the faces on the screen, including the companion, The Motorbike, I was half expecting the "client" to be The Wire.
 
2013-03-31 06:36:53 AM  

CigaretteSmokingMan: The woman in the shop gave her the Doctor's "help line." Didn't Rose have a phone that could call the Doctor?


I'm thinking that the TARDIS re-routed the call.
 
2013-03-31 07:31:42 AM  

Lusiphur: At least they went with a Triumph. A Norton would have been cooler.


A Triumph Scrambler is around £7k and Triumph will lend you one as long as you like if you are Dr Who production, new Nortons are twice that  ifyou can get hold of one (and persuade Norton to lend you one). Classic Nortons are more than a new Triumph.
 
2013-03-31 08:58:53 AM  
River did not give Clara the Doctor's phone number. There's someone far more obvious who could have done it.

Clara.
 
2013-03-31 08:59:58 AM  

MadSkillz: I think that she didn't get the phone number from anyone,


No, she says straight up that the number was given her by a "lady in the shop"
 
2013-03-31 09:05:26 AM  
Anderson's Pooper:
We've had some previous companions who weren't that smart and they turned out all right (Leela).

Leela was just raised as a primitive.  I think she was actually written to be reasonably smart but uneducated (despite being mainly intended as British-hot eye candy).
 
2013-03-31 09:25:16 AM  

RassilonsExWife: MadSkillz: I think that she didn't get the phone number from anyone,

No, she says straight up that the number was given her by a "lady in the shop"


She could have lied. OH. OH.

Maybe Clara is this season's villain.

That would be kind of awesome.
 
2013-03-31 09:35:47 AM  
One interesting note in regards to the mysterious "lady in the shop" that gave Clara the TARDIS number is that in the BBC shop channel where you can buy DVD's and stuff for the description of Season 1 with Eccleston it refers to the Doctors new companion as "His new assistant is Rose (Billie Piper), a shop-girl from the present day".
 
2013-03-31 09:42:50 AM  

johnnieconnie: Thanks for the warning. Media blackout commencing for today then. Except for Fark, that is.

/Still bummed over the Christmas spoiling of Downton Abby season finale
//Nobody better spoil tomorrow's Game of Thrones, either



The show gets a reset since they always deviate from the books.  The first two seasons will be written off as Sansa's bad dream.  You'll have to guess who it is in her shower.
 
2013-03-31 09:51:25 AM  

MadSkillz: So there'll probably be more Claras around, and they'll all die alot (Clara died two times this episode - she's like Kenny from South Park now).


Or Rory from Doctor Who?
 
2013-03-31 10:29:53 AM  

TheManofPA: cptjeff: RevMercutio: Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.

River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.

There are ways around that. Say, when the library saved her, it somehow restored things. Or if something dumps a lot of time energy into the library computer to get it to recreate her body... You know, somehow.

Let's just say that I don't think River is out for the count.

I'm hoping she is. If her last episode ends with the Doctor giving the screwdriver and then leaving her to visit the library, it is a very nice little arc. Mind you the other argument is that he's the Doctor, he's gone hundreds of years at this point, and he'll damn make sure that everybody lives given that amount of time.


Or..... he'll use the Master's potions of life to create a new body for River (assuming he does not have her old one in a back room of the Tardis somewhere) and the spoonhead robots he just acquired to download her consciousness back from the Library.
 
2013-03-31 10:30:19 AM  

dennysgod: One interesting note in regards to the mysterious "lady in the shop" that gave Clara the TARDIS number is that in the BBC shop channel where you can buy DVD's and stuff for the description of Season 1 with Eccleston it refers to the Doctors new companion as "His new assistant is Rose (Billie Piper), a shop-girl from the present day".


Why would Rose, who is in LURRVVVVVVVV with the Doctor and is his Most Specialest Companion Ever in the Whole Wide World, want to give her BOYFRIEND'S phone number to some hot girl?

/unless the Doctor swings, baby, yeah
 
2013-03-31 10:44:00 AM  

dennysgod: One interesting note in regards to the mysterious "lady in the shop" that gave Clara the TARDIS number is that in the BBC shop channel where you can buy DVD's and stuff for the description of Season 1 with Eccleston it refers to the Doctors new companion as "His new assistant is Rose (Billie Piper), a shop-girl from the present day".


Except the Doctor blew up her shop in 2005.
 
2013-03-31 10:50:27 AM  

Girion47: I loved the homage to Amy Pond in this episode.


You're the worst kind of person.
 
2013-03-31 11:02:21 AM  

Hebalo: Girion47: I loved the homage to Amy Pond in this episode.

You're the worst kind of person.


I never denied that.

And I happened to like Amy, and I feel that 11 is far better than 10.  Hell 9 is better than 10.

Rose Tyler=Worst Companion.
 
2013-03-31 11:36:00 AM  

MadSkillz: Clara died two times this episode - she's like Kenny  Rory from South Park Doctor Who now).


Oh wait...I see that was already covered. I still think there is/was more to his story and that he was more important than Amy.
 
2013-03-31 11:39:06 AM  
And River is confirmed to be returning in later episodes. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 
2013-03-31 11:58:36 AM  

cptjeff: gingerjet: I'm shocked that everyone has missed the most critical and controversial element of this episode:  the Doctor wears a clip on bow tie.

/the Who universe is now shaken to its core

Everyone missed this, you say?

cptjeff: jack21221: Monks are not cool!

I'm just disappointed that the Doctor wears a clip on. I'd suspected it for a long time, because the ones they have Matt Smith wear were mostly fairly obvious to those of us who actually wear bowties, but now it's official.

Yeah, I'm disappointed. It was in one of the previews, so I knew it was coming, but still. Really? They're not that hard to tie, and the Doctor has never really struck me as the clip on type. More the 'make things obnoxiously complicated and weird' type. Hence the scarf. And the clown suit. And the cape. And the flute. And the cane. And the decorative vegetable. But it's been obvious that it's a clip on for a while now (for the non-bowtie savvy out there, they really are that obvious), so it's not like this is a great revelation.


In The Wedding of River Song, Amy gives The Doctor some of his old clothes on the office on the train.  There is a normal tie-able non-clipon bow tie
 
2013-03-31 12:08:11 PM  

Girion47: Hebalo: Girion47: I loved the homage to Amy Pond in this episode.

You're the worst kind of person.

I never denied that.

And I happened to like Amy, and I feel that 11 is far better than 10.  Hell 9 is better than 10.

Rose Tyler=Worst Companion.


Nope. It's Pond. She started out fine, then grew irritating in record time, and hung around for the worst season in the reboot, made it such.
 
2013-03-31 12:22:02 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: dennysgod: One interesting note in regards to the mysterious "lady in the shop" that gave Clara the TARDIS number is that in the BBC shop channel where you can buy DVD's and stuff for the description of Season 1 with Eccleston it refers to the Doctors new companion as "His new assistant is Rose (Billie Piper), a shop-girl from the present day".

Except the Doctor blew up her shop in 2005.


Folks, Moffat's in charge.  Don't look for answers or try to theorize.  Whatever you do, you will end up sorely disapointed when it comes to the end and he has placed a premium on plucking the ol' heart strings rather than come up with something that makes any sense.  I still watch the show, but with little of the same sense of excitement or interest I have since its reboot.  They need to switch showrunners, and fast.

\yes, I hate Sherlock, too
\\any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too
 
2013-03-31 12:25:18 PM  
On the clip on controversy, I like to think it is your standard DW continuity error/that was his emergency protocol bowtie.

Mind you,all the bow ties he wears are "too perfect" that they are probably clip-ons, BUT in the first Matt Smith episode, he does debate between all the ties on the rooftop before tying the bowtie.

/just wanted to say clip on controversy
 
2013-03-31 12:28:35 PM  

Crackers Are a Family Food: Great episode, though I couldn't watch that woman and not see Judi Dench.  I also need to rename my wifi network.


As a techie, the first thing I thought of when I saw the intro was "Can you even do that with UTF8 and SSIDs?"
 
2013-03-31 12:37:50 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too


"The Hound" was farking terrible, but it's not one of the better Holmes stories to begin with (despite its popularity, which I credit to the memorable 1930s film since Rathbone defined Holmes until Jeremy Brett took a turn).

Of six stories, the new Sherlock has had 4 good ones and two stinkers. That's not a bad track record.

blue_2501: "Can you even do that with UTF8 and SSIDs?"


No, since those aren't in any standard character set. But an SSID can be any 32bytes you like.
 
2013-03-31 12:53:50 PM  
Children of Earth is on right now and I forgot how fantastic and terribly sad the penultimate episode is. It's a good thing that Torchwood went out on top with a brilliant miniseries.

/Cpt Jack come back for 50th special?
 
2013-03-31 01:03:18 PM  

TheManofPA: Children of Earth is on right now and I forgot how fantastic and terribly sad the penultimate episode is. It's a good thing that Torchwood went out on top with a brilliant miniseries.

/Cpt Jack come back for 50th special?


I'm assuming you're ignoring the Series of Torchwood That Doesn't Exist?

/I think he said he isn't.  http://tennantnews.blogspot.com/2013/03/no-captain-jack-for-doctor-wh o -50th.html
 
2013-03-31 01:14:52 PM  

t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too

"The Hound" was farking terrible, but it's not one of the better Holmes stories to begin with (despite its popularity, which I credit to the memorable 1930s film since Rathbone defined Holmes until Jeremy Brett took a turn).

Of six stories, the new Sherlock has had 4 good ones and two stinkers. That's not a bad track record.

blue_2501: "Can you even do that with UTF8 and SSIDs?"

No, since those aren't in any standard character set. But an SSID can be any 32bytes you like.



I am hard pressed to think of any completely good episodes outside of the very first one and maybe the third.  The only thing that saves the episodes is Martin Freeman.  This second series was shiatacular.

Scandal in Belgravia: Oh, thank goodness that the code was something completely farking stupid.  And that Sherlock can infiltrate a terrorist cell in the matter of a week.
Hound of the Baskervilles: When your case-breaking clue is a t-shirt that is apparently a gift from the CIA to its secret program participants, the "fear gas" part becomes almost believable.
The Reichenbach Fall:  I will say it again: if they reveal Sherlock took some sort of drug that made him bouncy, people will hear my screams across the East Coast.  The sad thing is that the show is so shiattily written that a bouncy-fying drug is a possibility.

Like Doctor Who, Moffat has gone way too cute, and instead relies on pretty visuals to cover his lack of scripting up.  He is a good writer, so let's let him do that, shall we?  And let someone else do creative control?  I recently read in SFX that one of the new Who episodes is "Journey to the Center of the TARDIS," and it was a Moffat half-baked "movie poster" idea again.
 
2013-03-31 01:17:06 PM  
This also goes back to my theory that sci-fi and fantasy fans are gluttons for punishment.  We usually discuss shows by their quality, and its often something like: "yeah it was a GREAT series!  Well, season 1 and season 5 sucked, but the other two rocked!" or "season three had five or six really great episodes (out of 20) ... what a great show!"

\first one was from a thread on Babylon 5
\\second one was from a review of ST:TNG series 2
 
2013-03-31 01:18:07 PM  

LavenderWolf: Darth_Lukecash: cptjeff: RevMercutio: Jensaarai: My lulzy nonserious prediction: Clara is River post-library. (Hey, we're in a big evil computer downloading and uploading souls kick.) She goes through a bastard version of regeneration every time she dies, where she keeps her form, but gets dumped in a random time period and loses most of her experience points.

River gave up her re-gen energy to save the Doctor after she poisoned him.

There are ways around that. Say, when the library saved her, it somehow restored things. Or if something dumps a lot of time energy into the library computer to get it to recreate her body... You know, somehow.

Let's just say that I don't think River is out for the count.m

No, she's done. It's the whole point of her character. The doctor and Rivers relationship is in reverse.

Exactly. If ever the Doctor sees her again, she won't remember him at all, and will regard him as a stranger.


That's already happened. It was the transition from Mels to River. As someone else posted, it's not strictly in reverse.
 
2013-03-31 01:20:09 PM  

dennysgod: One interesting note in regards to the mysterious "lady in the shop" that gave Clara the TARDIS number is that in the BBC shop channel where you can buy DVD's and stuff for the description of Season 1 with Eccleston it refers to the Doctors new companion as "His new assistant is Rose (Billie Piper), a shop-girl from the present day".


Sally Sparrow (from Blink) works in a used DVD & Bookstore.
 
2013-03-31 01:44:27 PM  

sirbissel: TheManofPA: Children of Earth is on right now and I forgot how fantastic and terribly sad the penultimate episode is. It's a good thing that Torchwood went out on top with a brilliant miniseries.

/Cpt Jack come back for 50th special?

I'm assuming you're ignoring the Series of Torchwood That Doesn't Exist?

/I think he said he isn't.  http://tennantnews.blogspot.com/2013/03/no-captain-jack-for-doctor-wh o -50th.html


::Stabs sirbissel::

Children of Earth was a great end to the Torchwood series if bittersweet

Sad he won't be in it.
 
2013-03-31 01:47:30 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too

"The Hound" was farking terrible, but it's not one of the better Holmes stories to begin with (despite its popularity, which I credit to the memorable 1930s film since Rathbone defined Holmes until Jeremy Brett took a turn).

Of six stories, the new Sherlock has had 4 good ones and two stinkers. That's not a bad track record.

blue_2501: "Can you even do that with UTF8 and SSIDs?"

No, since those aren't in any standard character set. But an SSID can be any 32bytes you like.


I am hard pressed to think of any completely good episodes outside of the very first one and maybe the third.  The only thing that saves the episodes is Martin Freeman.  This second series was shiatacular.

Scandal in Belgravia: Oh, thank goodness that the code was something completely farking stupid.  And that Sherlock can infiltrate a terrorist cell in the matter of a week.
Hound of the Baskervilles: When your case-breaking clue is a t-shirt that is apparently a gift from the CIA to its secret program participants, the "fear gas" part becomes almost believable.
The Reichenbach Fall:  I will say it again: if they reveal Sherlock took some sort of drug that made him bouncy, people will hear my screams across the East Coast.  The sad thing is that the show is so shiattily written that a bouncy-fying drug is a possibility.

Like Doctor Who, Moffat has gone way too cute, and instead relies on pretty visuals to cover his lack of scripting up.  He is a good writer, so let's let him do that, shall we?  And let someone else do creative control?  I recently read in SFX that one of the new Who episodes is "Journey to the Center of the TARDIS," and it was a Moffat half-baked "movie poster" idea again.


Sounds like you should just stop watching then if you are going to get all butthurt over every little thing.

Also, I believe a lot of fans have been asking for a TARDIS only story because we never get to see the inside of the TARDIS. We only get to hear about how many weird things are inside.
 
2013-03-31 02:14:25 PM  

ActionJoe: whizbangthedirtfarmer: t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too

"The Hound" was farking terrible, but it's not one of the better Holmes stories to begin with (despite its popularity, which I credit to the memorable 1930s film since Rathbone defined Holmes until Jeremy Brett took a turn).

Of six stories, the new Sherlock has had 4 good ones and two stinkers. That's not a bad track record.

blue_2501: "Can you even do that with UTF8 and SSIDs?"

No, since those aren't in any standard character set. But an SSID can be any 32bytes you like.


I am hard pressed to think of any completely good episodes outside of the very first one and maybe the third.  The only thing that saves the episodes is Martin Freeman.  This second series was shiatacular.

Scandal in Belgravia: Oh, thank goodness that the code was something completely farking stupid.  And that Sherlock can infiltrate a terrorist cell in the matter of a week.
Hound of the Baskervilles: When your case-breaking clue is a t-shirt that is apparently a gift from the CIA to its secret program participants, the "fear gas" part becomes almost believable.
The Reichenbach Fall:  I will say it again: if they reveal Sherlock took some sort of drug that made him bouncy, people will hear my screams across the East Coast.  The sad thing is that the show is so shiattily written that a bouncy-fying drug is a possibility.

Like Doctor Who, Moffat has gone way too cute, and instead relies on pretty visuals to cover his lack of scripting up.  He is a good writer, so let's let him do that, shall we?  And let someone else do creative control?  I recently read in SFX that one of the new Who episodes is "Journey to the Center of the TARDIS," and it was a Moffat half-baked "movie poster" idea again.

Sounds like you should just stop watching then if you are going to get all butthurt over every little thing.

Also, I believe a lot of fans have been asking for a TARDIS only story because ...


1) "every little thing" is a quibble with the music of the episode, or a one-off line.  "Every little thing" is NOT major and incredibly stupid plot points.  Seriously, when you watched Baskervilles, did you honestly believe that the CIA handed out t-shirts to the people who volunteered for experiments, and that the main person would be wearing said t-shirt (which was several years old) when he was running through the woods?  It was completely ludicrous and shattered an already weak episode.  The old "you shouldn't watch it" line doesn't make the show any less stupid.  My wife adored the first season (it was passable), but even with that, we sat through the second season completely flummoxed: how could anyone like a show here the showrunner seems to have a complete contempt for the fans?

2) I have no problem with the TARDIS.  I have a problem with the two things: 1) the "movie poster" concept.  Moffat apparently believes that people who watch Who are too dim too keep up with "big" story arcs, or that it is simply too hard to put one together and maintain some coherence.  Each season of Smith's run has been clogged up with ridiculous plot twists and nonsensical dilemmas.  Moffat's solution?  fark all that, then, let's just make everything really pretty and not worry about things like plot.  His solution is to base the series on a series of "movie posters" with big moments that ... lead to nothing.  In the same interview I mentioned above, some of the sequences in the most recent episode were written as a direct response/homage to Skyfall.  That's absolutely stupid.  2) Writing an episode for the fans is great, but there are numerous episodes that take place almost entirely within the TARDIS or that feature the TARDIS interior.   The concept of writing an episode for the fans also runs the risk of creating a "revelation" that was already well known anyway.  Take a look at "The Doctor's Wife:" the revelation was that the TARDIS has been sentient and in control the entire time.  Well, no shiat, and I was perplexed by those who thought this was a startling or new take on the show.  It's as if the previous 49 years never happened.  It was overall a decent episode, but let's not say it was revolutionary.
 
2013-03-31 02:24:44 PM  
This is probably an incredibly stupid question, but is there anyone else out there who remembers  Dark Season?
In the event thatit rings a bell with anyone, let me help jog your memory a bit.
 
2013-03-31 02:26:04 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: 1) They don't meet in reverse, they meet out of order, and they've figured out over time that their meetings have mostly been in the opposite order. A few super-geeks have diagrammed the order in which they meet. Each diagram has some errors (OK, yes, I too am a super-geek), not all of them follow through to River's most recent appearance, and not all of them are very well laid out, but if you can handle the headache here they are:

http://i.imgur.com/jjxG4DT.jpg
http://willbrooks.deviantart.com/art/River-Song-Timeline-Series-4-7a- 2 88713635
http://i.imgur.com/PP1OWHe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/te0xYFW.jpg


Or you could just watch all of her appearances in chronological order...

http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/8238472/Doctor_Who_Fan_Edit_-_The_Riv er _Song_Chronology
 
2013-03-31 02:30:59 PM  
I look at the headline again and realize that <b>subby</b> hasn't actually seen JLC's boobs.

So   in the start of the show the asian boy in the work room calls the uploaded people "spring heads".
Mindspring reference.  Dead cold fact.
 
2013-03-31 02:31:52 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: ActionJoe: whizbangthedirtfarmer: t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too

"The Hound" was farking terrible, but it's not one of the better Holmes stories to begin with (despite its popularity, which I credit to the memorable 1930s film since Rathbone defined Holmes until Jeremy Brett took a turn).

Of six stories, the new Sherlock has had 4 good ones and two stinkers. That's not a bad track record.

blue_2501: "Can you even do that with UTF8 and SSIDs?"

No, since those aren't in any standard character set. But an SSID can be any 32bytes you like.


I am hard pressed to think of any completely good episodes outside of the very first one and maybe the third.  The only thing that saves the episodes is Martin Freeman.  This second series was shiatacular.

Scandal in Belgravia: Oh, thank goodness that the code was something completely farking stupid.  And that Sherlock can infiltrate a terrorist cell in the matter of a week.
Hound of the Baskervilles: When your case-breaking clue is a t-shirt that is apparently a gift from the CIA to its secret program participants, the "fear gas" part becomes almost believable.
The Reichenbach Fall:  I will say it again: if they reveal Sherlock took some sort of drug that made him bouncy, people will hear my screams across the East Coast.  The sad thing is that the show is so shiattily written that a bouncy-fying drug is a possibility.

Like Doctor Who, Moffat has gone way too cute, and instead relies on pretty visuals to cover his lack of scripting up.  He is a good writer, so let's let him do that, shall we?  And let someone else do creative control?  I recently read in SFX that one of the new Who episodes is "Journey to the Center of the TARDIS," and it was a Moffat half-baked "movie poster" idea again.

Sounds like you should just stop watching then if you are going to get all butthurt over every little thing.

Also, I believe a lot of fans have been asking for a TARDIS only st ...


You should stop watching because you actually believe the writer has contempt for his fans. If you really believe that, then you have a problem and should stop watching because nothing will ever change your mind.
 
2013-03-31 02:32:43 PM  

cptjeff: Huh, the Doctor's a pretty good painter


he had a lot of time to do it right...
 
2013-03-31 02:45:45 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: 2) I have no problem with the TARDIS.  I have a problem with the two things: 1) the "movie poster" concept.  Moffat apparently believes that people who watch Who are too dim too keep up with "big" story arcs, or that it is simply too hard to put one together and maintain some coherence.


Are we even watching the same show? There are some major story arcs in season 7 that were all running through the "movie poster" episodes.
1. Knowledge of the Doctor being erased by Oswin.
2. The Ponds growing older and the Doctor finally losing them, and then retreating due to the grief.
3. The mystery of Clara Oswald pulling the Doctor out of his self-imposed exile.
4. The Great Intelligence growing into the main villain of the season.

There's way more going on in the background than was even happening during you typical RTD season where he just name checked the big bad of the season during the episodes and then waited until the last 2-3 episodes of the season to really do anything with the villain.

Also, Season 5 had a very nicely done story arc that tied up all the various plot threads together nicely (the crack, the Pandorica, Amy's wedding, River, the "continuity error" with the jacket) and wove them through the stand alone episodes really well. Had it been an RTD season, you'd simply have had the crack make a cameo each episode then the last episode would have Deus Ex'd it away. Season six wasn't nearly as good, but it did have its moments.

I've been a fan since the 80s, and I personally love what Moffatt has been doing with the show. The writing and production values have been really good (for example, the airplane scene was a nice take on the typical companion TARDIS intro scene), and the show has been more popular than ever, especially here in the US. RTD did a great job bringing the show back, but I personally feel that Moffatt-era Who is simply a more solid and entertaining show overall.
 
2013-03-31 02:47:46 PM  

prjindigo: I look at the headline again and realize that <b>subby</b> hasn't actually seen JLC's boobs.

So   in the start of the show the asian boy in the work room calls the uploaded people "spring heads".
Mindspring reference.  Dead cold fact.


Yeah, fact. Except for the part where he calls them "spoon heads" instead of "spring heads" yeah.

Also, JLC's boobs are quite nice. NSFW
 
2013-03-31 02:53:51 PM  

Mad_Radhu: I've been a fan since the 80s, and I personally love what Moffatt has been doing with the show. The writing and production values have been really good (for example, the airplane scene was a nice take on the typical companion TARDIS intro scene), and the show has been more popular than ever, especially here in the US. RTD did a great job bringing the show back, but I personally feel that Moffatt-era Who is simply a more solid and entertaining show overall.


Well said. And seconded.
 
2013-03-31 03:12:48 PM  

Mad_Radhu: whizbangthedirtfarmer: 2) I have no problem with the TARDIS.  I have a problem with the two things: 1) the "movie poster" concept.  Moffat apparently believes that people who watch Who are too dim too keep up with "big" story arcs, or that it is simply too hard to put one together and maintain some coherence.

Are we even watching the same show? There are some major story arcs in season 7 that were all running through the "movie poster" episodes.
1. Knowledge of the Doctor being erased by Oswin.
2. The Ponds growing older and the Doctor finally losing them, and then retreating due to the grief.
3. The mystery of Clara Oswald pulling the Doctor out of his self-imposed exile.
4. The Great Intelligence growing into the main villain of the season.

There's way more going on in the background than was even happening during you typical RTD season where he just name checked the big bad of the season during the episodes and then waited until the last 2-3 episodes of the season to really do anything with the villain.

Also, Season 5 had a very nicely done story arc that tied up all the various plot threads together nicely (the crack, the Pandorica, Amy's wedding, River, the "continuity error" with the jacket) and wove them through the stand alone episodes really well. Had it been an RTD season, you'd simply have had the crack make a cameo each episode then the last episode would have Deus Ex'd it away. Season six wasn't nearly as good, but it did have its moments.

I've been a fan since the 80s, and I personally love what Moffatt has been doing with the show. The writing and production values have been really good (for example, the airplane scene was a nice take on the typical companion TARDIS intro scene), and the show has been more popular than ever, especially here in the US. RTD did a great job bringing the show back, but I personally feel that Moffatt-era Who is simply a more solid and entertaining show overall.


If the previous seasons are any indication, however, we will receive a big Deus Ex at the end, just as you claim RTD did.  The "crack" was healed, and everything was reset.  The Ponds' resolution was ridiculous and forced (he can't land the TARDIS there...so what?).  Sure, Moffat has had some good moments as a showrunner, but let's not pretend he's doing something radically different than RTD.  The crack, as you said, made a cameo appearance in many episodes, and was indeed deus ex'ed away.  I see little different other than that it was more stylish.  Unfortunately, in this season, The Great Intelligence is ridiculous-looking (seriously, a snowglobe?) and has no aura of threat whatsoever.  Will that change?  Maybe.  But so long as Moffat is concerned most of all with visuals (he said as much in an interview about "The Asylum of the Daleks"-- he just wanted to see a lot of Daleks in one place) instead of plotting, then we aren't going to get anything remotely satisfying.

Maybe this season, Moffat will pull a nugget out of his ass.  So far, though, he appears to be hammering away at visuals and the same "greatest girl in the universe" theme that has been repeated every year since 2005.
 
2013-03-31 03:15:23 PM  

ActionJoe: whizbangthedirtfarmer: ActionJoe: whizbangthedirtfarmer: t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too

"The Hound" was farking terrible, but it's not one of the better Holmes stories to begin with (despite its popularity, which I credit to the memorable 1930s film since Rathbone defined Holmes until Jeremy Brett took a turn).

Of six stories, the new Sherlock has had 4 good ones and two stinkers. That's not a bad track record.

blue_2501: "Can you even do that with UTF8 and SSIDs?"

No, since those aren't in any standard character set. But an SSID can be any 32bytes you like.


I am hard pressed to think of any completely good episodes outside of the very first one and maybe the third.  The only thing that saves the episodes is Martin Freeman.  This second series was shiatacular.

Scandal in Belgravia: Oh, thank goodness that the code was something completely farking stupid.  And that Sherlock can infiltrate a terrorist cell in the matter of a week.
Hound of the Baskervilles: When your case-breaking clue is a t-shirt that is apparently a gift from the CIA to its secret program participants, the "fear gas" part becomes almost believable.
The Reichenbach Fall:  I will say it again: if they reveal Sherlock took some sort of drug that made him bouncy, people will hear my screams across the East Coast.  The sad thing is that the show is so shiattily written that a bouncy-fying drug is a possibility.

Like Doctor Who, Moffat has gone way too cute, and instead relies on pretty visuals to cover his lack of scripting up.  He is a good writer, so let's let him do that, shall we?  And let someone else do creative control?  I recently read in SFX that one of the new Who episodes is "Journey to the Center of the TARDIS," and it was a Moffat half-baked "movie poster" idea again.

Sounds like you should just stop watching then if you are going to get all butthurt over every little thing.

Also, I believe a lot of fans have been aski ...


Call me a completionist.  I don't think the writers have contempt for the fans (okay, some of them do), but I think the showrunner (Moffat) does place a higher emphasis on pretty images, and not on plot.  Anyone who critically watches Sherlock (or Jekyll, in all of its abysmal-ness) cannot deny that.  What has happened with Sherlock is that you have a water-cooler show, and I'm afraid that Doctor Who is slowly turning into a show where we expect pretty images and wonderful action sequences, and not a whole lot else.  This completely flies in the face of the previous decades of the show's history.
 
2013-03-31 04:15:19 PM  
god I hate all the Moffat biatching, I enjoy what he's doing with Dr. Who AND Sherlock.   I swear you people come in here just shiat all over stuff that people like.

What I don't get is when people hate Moffat but loved RTD with gems like Martha's infatuation, Daleks in Manhattan, and The Sound of Drums, that was some utterly shiatastic Who.


Still feel that Pond is 3rd best companion, 2nd is Donna, and Oswin is my number 1 at the moment.
 
2013-03-31 04:16:57 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Zarquon's Flat Tire: dennysgod: One interesting note in regards to the mysterious "lady in the shop" that gave Clara the TARDIS number is that in the BBC shop channel where you can buy DVD's and stuff for the description of Season 1 with Eccleston it refers to the Doctors new companion as "His new assistant is Rose (Billie Piper), a shop-girl from the present day".

Except the Doctor blew up her shop in 2005.

Folks, Moffat's in charge.  Don't look for answers or try to theorize.  Whatever you do, you will end up sorely disapointed when it comes to the end and he has placed a premium on plucking the ol' heart strings rather than come up with something that makes any sense.  I still watch the show, but with little of the same sense of excitement or interest I have since its reboot.  They need to switch showrunners, and fast.

\yes, I hate Sherlock, too
\\any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too


1) It's fun to theorize, but you're right about the fact that making sense is low on Moffat's list or priorities, which is unfortunate. Besides, "shop-girl" means "clerk." To think that Rose is the person being referenced based solely on the fact that she was once referred to as a "shop girl" is pants-on-head retarded.

2) Sherlock is very enjoyable, but no where near as good as its praise suggests. Cumberbuttons is great in the role, but the plots are full of holes.

3) To be fair, Doyle's original "Baskervilles" is pretty problematic itself.
 
2013-03-31 04:33:34 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Mad_Radhu: whizbangthedirtfarmer: 2) I have no problem with the TARDIS.  I have a problem with the two things: 1) the "movie poster" concept.  Moffat apparently believes that people who watch Who are too dim too keep up with "big" story arcs, or that it is simply too hard to put one together and maintain some coherence.

Are we even watching the same show? There are some major story arcs in season 7 that were all running through the "movie poster" episodes.
1. Knowledge of the Doctor being erased by Oswin.
2. The Ponds growing older and the Doctor finally losing them, and then retreating due to the grief.
3. The mystery of Clara Oswald pulling the Doctor out of his self-imposed exile.
4. The Great Intelligence growing into the main villain of the season.

There's way more going on in the background than was even happening during you typical RTD season where he just name checked the big bad of the season during the episodes and then waited until the last 2-3 episodes of the season to really do anything with the villain.

Also, Season 5 had a very nicely done story arc that tied up all the various plot threads together nicely (the crack, the Pandorica, Amy's wedding, River, the "continuity error" with the jacket) and wove them through the stand alone episodes really well. Had it been an RTD season, you'd simply have had the crack make a cameo each episode then the last episode would have Deus Ex'd it away. Season six wasn't nearly as good, but it did have its moments.

I've been a fan since the 80s, and I personally love what Moffatt has been doing with the show. The writing and production values have been really good (for example, the airplane scene was a nice take on the typical companion TARDIS intro scene), and the show has been more popular than ever, especially here in the US. RTD did a great job bringing the show back, but I personally feel that Moffatt-era Who is simply a more solid and entertaining show overall.

If the previous seasons are any indication, ho ...


Careful, now. People will soon start proudly proclaiming how they have you on ignore because you're having an opinion that isn't "SQUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE BEST EVAR!". You've already been told to quit watching, which is the other standard reply.


Anyway, decent episode. Smith and Coleman have a decent chemistry. And, Smith seems more... Doctor-like with this new companion.

/too bad the original Great Intelligence serials are missing. It would be nice to see how he got his start as a fairly okay intelligence.
 
2013-03-31 04:39:04 PM  

Serial: 100 Watt Walrus: 1) They don't meet in reverse, they meet out of order, and they've figured out over time that their meetings have mostly been in the opposite order. A few super-geeks have diagrammed the order in which they meet. Each diagram has some errors (OK, yes, I too am a super-geek), not all of them follow through to River's most recent appearance, and not all of them are very well laid out, but if you can handle the headache here they are:

http://i.imgur.com/jjxG4DT.jpg
http://willbrooks.deviantart.com/art/River-Song-Timeline-Series-4-7a- 2 88713635
http://i.imgur.com/PP1OWHe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/te0xYFW.jpg

Or you could just watch all of her appearances in chronological order...

http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/8238472/Doctor_Who_Fan_Edit_-_The_Riv er _Song_Chronology


You are a beautiful human being. I didn't even know that existed. Downloading now.
 
2013-03-31 04:44:13 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Zarquon's Flat Tire: dennysgod: One interesting note in regards to the mysterious "lady in the shop" that gave Clara the TARDIS number is that in the BBC shop channel where you can buy DVD's and stuff for the description of Season 1 with Eccleston it refers to the Doctors new companion as "His new assistant is Rose (Billie Piper), a shop-girl from the present day".

Except the Doctor blew up her shop in 2005.

Folks, Moffat's in charge.  Don't look for answers or try to theorize.  Whatever you do, you will end up sorely disapointed when it comes to the end and he has placed a premium on plucking the ol' heart strings rather than come up with something that makes any sense.  I still watch the show, but with little of the same sense of excitement or interest I have since its reboot.  They need to switch showrunners, and fast.

\yes, I hate Sherlock, too
\\any reasonable person who watched Baskervilles would, too

1) It's fun to theorize, but you're right about the fact that making sense is low on Moffat's list or priorities, which is unfortunate. Besides, "shop-girl" means "clerk." To think that Rose is the person being referenced based solely on the fact that she was once referred to as a "shop girl" is pants-on-head retarded.

2) Sherlock is very enjoyable, but no where near as good as its praise suggests. Cumberbuttons is great in the role, but the plots are full of holes.

3) To be fair, Doyle's original "Baskervilles" is pretty problematic itself.


I can deal with some of the holes; after all, I managed to somewhat be okay with the first season.  During the second season, there were actually moments where I said "you've got to be farking kidding me."  They weren't plot holes--they were just sloppy pieces of a general script outline fused together by people talking about inane things.  To say that there was a plot hole would require the bare minimum of a plot.  Maybe season three will be better, but I have serious doubts.
 
2013-03-31 04:53:23 PM  
whizbangthedirtfarmer:
...This completely flies in the face of the previous decades of the show's history.

Baskerville was written by Gatiss.

Also, during the previous decades of the show's history they had neither time nor resources to go for pretty images.  But they wanted to, and you can tell this because they occasionally have a crack at providing a bit of spectacle.  To suggest that Doctor Who's producers and directors didn't want to create striking visuals because of some refined aesthetic sensibility or commitment to quality storytelling is to view the classic series through a haze of nostalgia, to ignore it's many flaws and to forget that television is a primarily visual medium.  It is definitely allowed to be about pretty pictures.
 
2013-03-31 04:56:52 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I can deal with some of the holes; after all, I managed to somewhat be okay with the first season.  During the second season, there were actually moments where I said "you've got to be farking kidding me."  They weren't plot holes--they were just sloppy pieces of a general script outline fused together by people talking about inane things.  To say that there was a plot hole would require the bare minimum of a plot.  Maybe season three will be better, but I have serious doubts.


No argument from me on that. When a Sherlock Holmes story insults your intelligence, it's being told badly, and that happened several times in series two.

(How the hell did we turn a "Doctor Who" thread - about an episode less than 24 hours old no less - into a "Sherlock" thread?!? Especially since "Sherlock" hasn't aired in over a year! There's something seriously wrong with us.)

Back on topic: I hope the Spoonheads aren't this series' Flesh dopplegangers. The new "Doctor Who" has gotten bad enough at repeating itself already (this episode's similarities to "The Idiot Box" being a prime example).
 
2013-03-31 05:02:57 PM  

Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer:
...This completely flies in the face of the previous decades of the show's history.

Baskerville was written by Gatiss.

Also, during the previous decades of the show's history they had neither time nor resources to go for pretty images.  But they wanted to, and you can tell this because they occasionally have a crack at providing a bit of spectacle.  To suggest that Doctor Who's producers and directors didn't want to create striking visuals because of some refined aesthetic sensibility or commitment to quality storytelling is to view the classic series through a haze of nostalgia, to ignore it's many flaws and to forget that television is a primarily visual medium.  It is definitely allowed to be about pretty pictures.


...but not at the sake of decent writing.  Some of the best Who episodes combined both, even with the limitations of the time period (Talons of Wen Chiang, etc.).  I am hard pressed to think of any classic Who, though, that purposely focused on pretty images at the expense of plot.  Sure, there were some shiatty scripts out there, but they were shiatty because they were poorly written, or had bad characters, or were trimmed.  They weren't shiatty because the showrunner decided to make every episode based off of a movie poster and go for spectacle instead of storytelling.

As far as Gatiss goes, he is one of the lesser writers associated with the show, and produced two stinkers, one of which he was the main character ("The Lazarus Experiment").  "The Wedding of River Song" was not quite as bad, but still focused on visuals over plot--the resolution to the season long arc was at once pointless (let's erase everything and start over!) and grating (Doctor Who?  Doctor Who?  Doctor Who?).  It's no surprise that he wrote the worst two hours of Sherlock as well.
 
2013-03-31 05:03:09 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: prjindigo: I look at the headline again and realize that <b>subby</b> hasn't actually seen JLC's boobs.

So   in the start of the show the asian boy in the work room calls the uploaded people "spring heads".
Mindspring reference.  Dead cold fact.

Yeah, fact. Except for the part where he calls them "spoon heads" instead of "spring heads" yeah.

Also, JLC's boobs are quite nice. NSFW


Spoonheads?

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-03-31 05:07:41 PM  

ElectricPeterTork: Dingleberry Dickwad: prjindigo: I look at the headline again and realize that <b>subby</b> hasn't actually seen JLC's boobs.

So   in the start of the show the asian boy in the work room calls the uploaded people "spring heads".
Mindspring reference.  Dead cold fact.

Yeah, fact. Except for the part where he calls them "spoon heads" instead of "spring heads" yeah.

Also, JLC's boobs are quite nice. NSFW

Spoonheads?

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 400x393]


It's funny because that was my exact thought at first when he said that.
 
2013-03-31 05:34:19 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer:
...This completely flies in the face of the previous decades of the show's history.

Baskerville was written by Gatiss.

Also, during the previous decades of the show's history they had neither time nor resources to go for pretty images.  But they wanted to, and you can tell this because they occasionally have a crack at providing a bit of spectacle.  To suggest that Doctor Who's producers and directors didn't want to create striking visuals because of some refined aesthetic sensibility or commitment to quality storytelling is to view the classic series through a haze of nostalgia, to ignore it's many flaws and to forget that television is a primarily visual medium.  It is definitely allowed to be about pretty pictures.

...but not at the sake of decent writing.  Some of the best Who episodes combined both, even with the limitations of the time period (Talons of Wen Chiang, etc.).  I am hard pressed to think of any classic Who, though, that purposely focused on pretty images at the expense of plot.  Sure, there were some shiatty scripts out there, but they were shiatty because they were poorly written, or had bad characters, or were trimmed.  They weren't shiatty because the showrunner decided to make every episode based off of a movie poster and go for spectacle instead of storytelling.

As far as Gatiss goes, he is one of the lesser writers associated with the show, and produced two stinkers, one of which he was the main character ("The Lazarus Experiment").  "The Wedding of River Song" was not quite as bad, but still focused on visuals over plot--the resolution to the season long arc was at once pointless (let's erase everything and start over!) and grating (Doctor Who?  Doctor Who?  Doctor Who?).  It's no surprise that he wrote the worst two hours of Sherlock as well.


The Lazarus Experiment was written by Stephen Greenhorn.

The Wedding of River Song was Moffat.  For someone who claims to care about the writing, you're paying very little attention to the actual writer.

The Classic series has quite a few style over substance moments.  Warrior's Gate is a New Romantic pop video.  Carnival of Monsters takes a very limp swing at satirizing television in general but is mostly about pictures.  Episodes 4 to 8 of The Wargames are entirely superfluous.  I could go on.

It's not like I love and adore everything that's happened since 2005, but it is better than a good 75% of what's on TV.  Since you're still watching it despite your dislike, what is it you watch for?
 
2013-03-31 05:46:31 PM  

Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer:
...This completely flies in the face of the previous decades of the show's history.

Baskerville was written by Gatiss.

Also, during the previous decades of the show's history they had neither time nor resources to go for pretty images.  But they wanted to, and you can tell this because they occasionally have a crack at providing a bit of spectacle.  To suggest that Doctor Who's producers and directors didn't want to create striking visuals because of some refined aesthetic sensibility or commitment to quality storytelling is to view the classic series through a haze of nostalgia, to ignore it's many flaws and to forget that television is a primarily visual medium.  It is definitely allowed to be about pretty pictures.

...but not at the sake of decent writing.  Some of the best Who episodes combined both, even with the limitations of the time period (Talons of Wen Chiang, etc.).  I am hard pressed to think of any classic Who, though, that purposely focused on pretty images at the expense of plot.  Sure, there were some shiatty scripts out there, but they were shiatty because they were poorly written, or had bad characters, or were trimmed.  They weren't shiatty because the showrunner decided to make every episode based off of a movie poster and go for spectacle instead of storytelling.

As far as Gatiss goes, he is one of the lesser writers associated with the show, and produced two stinkers, one of which he was the main character ("The Lazarus Experiment").  "The Wedding of River Song" was not quite as bad, but still focused on visuals over plot--the resolution to the season long arc was at once pointless (let's erase everything and start over!) and grating (Doctor Who?  Doctor Who?  Doctor Who?).  It's no surprise that he wrote the worst two hours of Sherlock as well.

The Lazarus Experiment was written by Stephen Greenhorn.

The Wedding of River Song was Moffat.  For someone who claims to care about the wr ...


My mistake.  Gatiss did have some co-writing on both of those eps, but not the official credits.  Even so, his work on both of the Sherlocks was godawful, and my point still stands about classic Who and visuals.  Would they have loved better SFX, or to have the Doctor doing a Skyfall thing?  Sure.  But I don't think even JNT would have stooped so far as to completely ignore the story.

I agree that Doctor Who is currently better than 75% of what is on TV right now.  Unfortunately, about 85% of Doctor Who is better than what I'm currently seeing. In response to the "stop watching" shiat, all I have to say is that I do enjoy watching it, but I tend to have a critical and realistic sense of the show.  It's better than most of what is on TV, but that's just not saying much: Breaking Bad, maybe Game of Thrones, and ... well, after that I draw blanks.  So, I will watch Doctor Who, but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.
 
2013-03-31 06:17:06 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Unfortunately, about 85% of Doctor Who is better than what I'm currently seeing.


I really don't think that's true. Even if we simply limit ourselves to the  plotting of the episodes, Classic Who suffers from some serious flaws in that regard. The largest one is the pacing of the story. In any given four episode serial, there is at least one episode's worth of action that's completely and utterly superfluous. There's a vast raft of episodes which are galloping nonsense, or which depend on painful tropes, like, "Oh, I have an exact duplicate and nobody can tell us apart!"

And this isn't just one era or another- this is endemic to the series. No Doctor escaped it. No Doctor ever will.

All that said, I do find myself wishing they'd go back to the old serial format. NuWho, especially under Moffat, tries to tell a four act story, and often ends up having to shortchange important plot developments in one or more of the acts. It was most painful and obvious in "Victory of the Daleks", which  could have been a good episode (and how sad is it that it was the best Dalek episode since "Dalek"?), but had to rush over plot points until it was so busy waving its hands that it just hoped the Spitfires-in-Space would do it for you.
 
2013-03-31 06:32:52 PM  

TheManofPA: On the clip on controversy, I like to think it is your standard DW continuity error/that was his emergency protocol bowtie.

Mind you,all the bow ties he wears are "too perfect" that they are probably clip-ons, BUT in the first Matt Smith episode, he does debate between all the ties on the rooftop before tying the bowtie.

/just wanted to say clip on controversy


You can't get strangled with a clip on.

Also watching some earlier eps today (Notably "Pyramids of Mars") the Doctor has always been affectionate towards his female companions in the same way 10 and Rose were, but he was very English about it, stiff upper llip and all. The specific scene is where Sara comes out in on of Vicki's dresses that she happened to find in a trunk. He is very sentimental deep down.
 
2013-03-31 08:29:25 PM  
Jensaarai:
They showed what I assumed was a webisode or something about the Doctor on a swingset, talking with some young girl about how they lose things. (Him obviously referencing Oswin.) The kid recommends that he go somewhere quiet to think or something, which seems to be what leads to the whole monk thing.

Umm...the girl on the swing *is* Oswin.
 
2013-03-31 08:54:05 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: prjindigo: I look at the headline again and realize that <b>subby</b> hasn't actually seen JLC's boobs.

So   in the start of the show the asian boy in the work room calls the uploaded people "spring heads".
Mindspring reference.  Dead cold fact.

Yeah, fact. Except for the part where he calls them "spoon heads" instead of "spring heads" yeah.

Also, JLC's boobs are quite nice. NSFW


applejack.ponychan.net
 
2013-03-31 09:16:42 PM  

t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Unfortunately, about 85% of Doctor Who is better than what I'm currently seeing.

I really don't think that's true. Even if we simply limit ourselves to the  plotting of the episodes, Classic Who suffers from some serious flaws in that regard. The largest one is the pacing of the story. In any given four episode serial, there is at least one episode's worth of action that's completely and utterly superfluous. There's a vast raft of episodes which are galloping nonsense, or which depend on painful tropes, like, "Oh, I have an exact duplicate and nobody can tell us apart!"

And this isn't just one era or another- this is endemic to the series. No Doctor escaped it. No Doctor ever will.

All that said, I do find myself wishing they'd go back to the old serial format. NuWho, especially under Moffat, tries to tell a four act story, and often ends up having to shortchange important plot developments in one or more of the acts. It was most painful and obvious in "Victory of the Daleks", which  could have been a good episode (and how sad is it that it was the best Dalek episode since "Dalek"?), but had to rush over plot points until it was so busy waving its hands that it just hoped the Spitfires-in-Space would do it for you.


I would say that the whole "capture/recapture" thing was rampant during the early years, but petered out at the end of the Pertwee era.  After the first season of Tom Baker's run, and almost all the way through Peter Davison's run, there's a large swath of not only good Doctor episodes, but legendary ones.  It was at that time that the writers and the producers had finally understood how to present the stories, the length they should be, etc.  Some of Colin Baker's stories fit in this category as well, and there are very few episodes with filler in them.  Once it got to McCoy, however, then the BBC started cutting their orders, and many of the episodes were a jumbled mess.  Still, give me The Caves of Androzani any day over ... well, almost all of Matt Smith's run.
 
2013-03-31 09:23:36 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Unfortunately, about 85% of Doctor Who is better than what I'm currently seeing.

I really don't think that's true. Even if we simply limit ourselves to the  plotting of the episodes, Classic Who suffers from some serious flaws in that regard. The largest one is the pacing of the story. In any given four episode serial, there is at least one episode's worth of action that's completely and utterly superfluous. There's a vast raft of episodes which are galloping nonsense, or which depend on painful tropes, like, "Oh, I have an exact duplicate and nobody can tell us apart!"

And this isn't just one era or another- this is endemic to the series. No Doctor escaped it. No Doctor ever will.

All that said, I do find myself wishing they'd go back to the old serial format. NuWho, especially under Moffat, tries to tell a four act story, and often ends up having to shortchange important plot developments in one or more of the acts. It was most painful and obvious in "Victory of the Daleks", which  could have been a good episode (and how sad is it that it was the best Dalek episode since "Dalek"?), but had to rush over plot points until it was so busy waving its hands that it just hoped the Spitfires-in-Space would do it for you.

I would say that the whole "capture/recapture" thing was rampant during the early years, but petered out at the end of the Pertwee era.  After the first season of Tom Baker's run, and almost all the way through Peter Davison's run, there's a large swath of not only good Doctor episodes, but legendary ones.  It was at that time that the writers and the producers had finally understood how to present the stories, the length they should be, etc.  Some of Colin Baker's stories fit in this category as well, and there are very few episodes with filler in them.  Once it got to McCoy, however, then the BBC started cutting their orders, and many of the episodes were a jumbled mess.  Still, give me The Caves of Androzani any ...


So much of the writing for Colin Baker was crap (never mind the clothes). When he was given good material he was fantastic and would've been a great Doctor. Just check out his audio adventures over at Big Finish.
 
2013-03-31 10:26:12 PM  
I second the support for Colin Baker. He was entertaining, even when they did give him crappy stories. I'd love to see a Doctor with his bombastic personality again. But then, I'd also love to see a mysterious, oddball, dark Doctor like Two and Seven were.

Matt Smith brings a lot of those Doctors into his performance. He can be a bit bombastic-- In a polite way-- and he definitely brings the "ancient being playing a long game with the universe" aspect to it that Two and Seven were known for.

My favorite remains Seven. McCoy's Doctor and Aldred's Ace were a great mix of personalities and had some fairly fun (if not occasionally stupid) adventures. I wish they hadn't canceled the show during McCoy's run, because they were building up to some grand plan the Doctor had for Ace, and they never got to it.
 
2013-03-31 10:26:18 PM  

RassilonsExWife: Mad_Radhu: I've been a fan since the 80s, and I personally love what Moffatt has been doing with the show. The writing and production values have been really good (for example, the airplane scene was a nice take on the typical companion TARDIS intro scene), and the show has been more popular than ever, especially here in the US. RTD did a great job bringing the show back, but I personally feel that Moffatt-era Who is simply a more solid and entertaining show overall.

Well said. And seconded.


Agreed. I read an interesting quote from Moffat about the origin of River Song's name. He and RTD were on the message boards at the time and noticed the fans abbreviating the episode titles. Aliens Of London became AOL. They decided to try to make ep titles that would spell naughty words. Moffat came up with At River Song's End to spell ARSE. They laughed and he forgot about it until he needed a character name when writing Silence In The Library. Then, when he took over, Amy Pond was named Pond to be able to tie into the Melody Pond/River Song arc he had in mind. That guy is so far ahead of us we should probably just give up.
 
2013-03-31 10:47:25 PM  

dennysgod: One interesting note in regards to the mysterious "lady in the shop" that gave Clara the TARDIS number is that in the BBC shop channel where you can buy DVD's and stuff for the description of Season 1 with Eccleston it refers to the Doctors new companion as "His new assistant is Rose (Billie Piper), a shop-girl from the present day".


Wow, then someone must have gone back in time and made that first episode of the new series...because that is totally what Rose is when the Doctor meets her!
 
2013-03-31 11:48:05 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I second the support for Colin Baker. He was entertaining, even when they did give him crappy stories. I'd love to see a Doctor with his bombastic personality again. But then, I'd also love to see a mysterious, oddball, dark Doctor like Two and Seven were.

Matt Smith brings a lot of those Doctors into his performance. He can be a bit bombastic-- In a polite way-- and he definitely brings the "ancient being playing a long game with the universe" aspect to it that Two and Seven were known for.

My favorite remains Seven. McCoy's Doctor and Aldred's Ace were a great mix of personalities and had some fairly fun (if not occasionally stupid) adventures. I wish they hadn't canceled the show during McCoy's run, because they were building up to some grand plan the Doctor had for Ace, and they never got to it.


The Cartmel Masterplan SUCKED, and wasn't hinted at as much as was originally planned because JNT, as terrible as he was, could tell that it would've sucked. I strongly doubt it would've happened even if the cancellation hadn't stopped it.
 
2013-04-01 12:45:22 AM  

Mad_Radhu: HotWingAgenda: Is this the thread where we all gather to pretend the Doctor can just keep respawning infinitely like a hacked Mario game?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/oct/12/doctor-who-immort al -reveals-bbc
http://thedoctorwhopodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=427.0

There's already been at least four different ways the Doctor can get more regenerations established in the series so far:

1. The Time Lords enforced the regeneration limit, so with them gone the cap is no longer there

2. The Time Lords reset the cycles for everyone fighting in the Time War, which makes sense because it would give them more effective warriors against the Daleks. This has already been established to have happened with The Master, since he was able regenerate normally after long having used up his regenerations.

3. Absorbing the Heart of the TARDIS from Rose gave the Doctor a new set of regenerations, since being exposed to the same time energy reverted the female Slitheen to an egg.

4. River only used up two of her regenerations, so if she gave her remaining ones to the Doctor, he would now have 10 left, assuming she has the same limit.

And those are all without pulling something out of left field.


My bet is on #2.  Even the original series (The Five Doctors) established that a high-enough legal authority in Time Lord society could grant an entirely new set of regenerations.
 
2013-04-01 05:02:41 AM  

ZeroCorpse: I second the support for Colin Baker. He was entertaining, even when they did give him crappy stories. I'd love to see a Doctor with his bombastic personality again. But then, I'd also love to see a mysterious, oddball, dark Doctor like Two and Seven were.

Matt Smith brings a lot of those Doctors into his performance. He can be a bit bombastic-- In a polite way-- and he definitely brings the "ancient being playing a long game with the universe" aspect to it that Two and Seven were known for.

My favorite remains Seven. McCoy's Doctor and Aldred's Ace were a great mix of personalities and had some fairly fun (if not occasionally stupid) adventures. I wish they hadn't canceled the show during McCoy's run, because they were building up to some grand plan the Doctor had for Ace, and they never got to it.


Now, that's interesting to be because while I genuinely don't have a favorite Doctor, I do absolutely have a least favorite, and that's McCoy. Actually, "least favorite" doesn't even begin to describe how much I hate McCoy.

As a rabid "Doctor Who" fan who has seen every episode from Pertwee through Davison several times, and every Hartnell and Troughton I could get my hands on, and could answer just about any trivia question about the shows from '63 through '87 and '05 to the present, McCoy's portrayal was such a turn-off for me that I completely abandoned the show after forcing myself to suffer through his first season.

I mean, yes, the scripts sucked too, by and large -- and frankly, I'm no fan of Ace (great character, terrible actress). But it was McCoy that made me give up on "Doctor Who" in the '80s. Smug and condescending, yet nebbishy (at least Colin Baker's abrasiveness had some oomph behind it), those ridiculous rolling Rs -- I cringe just thinking about it.

I've recently tried rewatching a few of McCoy's episodes, and I just can't get through them. I just want to punch that little twerp.

And it's not McCoy himself - I've liked him in other roles. It's just his Doctor I find insufferable.

/aren't you glad I shared?
//rant off
 
2013-04-01 08:39:41 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Scandal in Belgravia: Oh, thank goodness that the code was something completely farking stupid.  And that Sherlock can infiltrate a terrorist cell in the matter of a week.
Hound of the Baskervilles: When your case-breaking clue is a t-shirt that is apparently a gift from the CIA to its secret program participants, the "fear gas" part becomes almost believable.
The Reichenbach Fall:  I will say it again: if they reveal Sherlock took some sort of drug that made him bouncy, people will hear my screams across the East Coast.  The sad thing is that the show is so shiattily written that a bouncy-fying drug is a possibility.

Like Doctor Who, Moffat has gone way too cute, and instead relies on pretty visuals to cover his lack of scripting up.  He is a good writer, so let's let him do that, shall we?  And let someone else do creative control?  I recently read in SFX that one of the new Who episodes is "Journey to the Center of the TARDIS," and it was a Moffat half-baked "movie poster" idea again.


Despite the unbelievable ending to S2E1, it was still a good episode overall.  And I think most seem to agree that S2E2-3 were pretty crappy.  I have no idea how they are going to explain away the season finale.  He seems to think that the same "suspension of disbelief" that applies to Dr. Who should apply to his other series.  No, Dr. Who has a high SoD factor, and that really shouldn't bleed into something more science-based like Sherlock.
 
But, the first season was pretty killer.
 
2013-04-01 01:20:50 PM  
Surprised this thread died already and I am here to resurrect it!  I noticed a lot of people caught that the author of the book was Amelia Williams, but what about the leaf (not the same book I don't think)?  She said it was page 1 or the 1st page or something - anyone have any interesting theories?
 
2013-04-01 01:59:28 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.


The thing I really want for fandom is to remember that shiatty writers don't get to write for TV.  Or anything else.  Also, there is a world of difference between writing or plot decisions that you don't like and ones that are actually bad.

If you want to read some actually bad writing, there's any amount of fic that doesn't approach competent let alone good.  Go find some, or better yet read this.  You can thank me later.

I could run through The Bells of St. Johns and point out why it's not awful, but I don't want to try to tell you to like things you don't like.
 
2013-04-01 02:03:58 PM  

Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer: but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.

The thing I really want for fandom is to remember that shiatty writers don't get to write for TV.  Or anything else.   Also, there is a world of difference between writing or plot decisions that you don't like and ones that are actually bad.

If you want to read some actually bad writing, there's any amount of fic that doesn't approach competent let alone good.  Go find some, or better yet read this.  You can thank me later.

I could run through The Bells of St. Johns and point out why it's not awful, but I don't want to try to tell you to like things you don't like.


You are right: I don't like plot decisions that don't make any sense.  My exacting, rigorous standards demand that there not be nonsensical plot holes, plot threads that lead nowhere, or manufactured crises that simply get washed away when the writer decides it serves no purpose any further.

I'm so awful.

\as far as no bad writers for TV, I'm guessing you haven't seen about 80% of what's out there
\\or been made aware of the shows that were cancelled after one or two episodes of complete suckdom
 
2013-04-01 02:31:19 PM  

HallsOfMandos: Surprised this thread died already and I am here to resurrect it!  I noticed a lot of people caught that the author of the book was Amelia Williams, but what about the leaf (not the same book I don't think)?  She said it was page 1 or the 1st page or something - anyone have any interesting theories?


When she went to see the first thing, there were leaves there. She pressed one to remember it.

As for the age, those might have been the years where she did something. She'd been with the family for a year. The 23 is missing because she hadn't done anything for the previous year, but she had made up her mind not to miss anything this year. That's why she had already written 24.
 
2013-04-01 02:44:29 PM  

CptnSpldng: Lusiphur: At least they went with a Triumph. A Norton would have been cooler.

Vincent Black Lightning 1952


yes!

/fires up some Richard Thompson
 
2013-04-01 02:51:59 PM  

TheManofPA: On the clip on controversy, I like to think it is your standard DW continuity error/that was his emergency protocol bowtie.

Mind you,all the bow ties he wears are "too perfect" that they are probably clip-ons, BUT in the first Matt Smith episode, he does debate between all the ties on the rooftop before tying the bowtie.

/just wanted to say clip on controversy


Clipgate?
 
2013-04-01 02:55:39 PM  

Pepperjack: Agreed. I read an interesting quote from Moffat about the origin of River Song's name. He and RTD were on the message boards at the time and noticed the fans abbreviating the episode titles. Aliens Of London became AOL. They decided to try to make ep titles that would spell naughty words. Moffat came up with At River Song's End to spell ARSE. They laughed and he forgot about it until he needed a character name when writing Silence In The Library. Then, when he took over, Amy Pond was named Pond to be able to tie into the Melody Pond/River Song arc he had in mind. That guy is so far ahead of us we should probably just give up.


Steven Moffat spelling ARSE? If you've watched his fantastic Coupling then that's hardly a surprise.  Probably half the lines Jeff says have "arse" or "breasts" in them.
 
2013-04-01 03:27:43 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer: but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.

The thing I really want for fandom is to remember that shiatty writers don't get to write for TV.  Or anything else.   Also, there is a world of difference between writing or plot decisions that you don't like and ones that are actually bad.

If you want to read some actually bad writing, there's any amount of fic that doesn't approach competent let alone good.  Go find some, or better yet read this.  You can thank me later.

I could run through The Bells of St. Johns and point out why it's not awful, but I don't want to try to tell you to like things you don't like.

You are right: I don't like plot decisions that don't make any sense.  My exacting, rigorous standards demand that there not be nonsensical plot holes, plot threads that lead nowhere, or manufactured crises that simply get washed away when the writer decides it serves no purpose any further.

I'm so awful.

\as far as no bad writers for TV, I'm guessing you haven't seen about 80% of what's out there
\\or been made aware of the shows that were cancelled after one or two episodes of complete suckdom


your biatching is tiresome.
 
2013-04-01 03:34:56 PM  

Girion47: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer: but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.

The thing I really want for fandom is to remember that shiatty writers don't get to write for TV.  Or anything else.   Also, there is a world of difference between writing or plot decisions that you don't like and ones that are actually bad.

If you want to read some actually bad writing, there's any amount of fic that doesn't approach competent let alone good.  Go find some, or better yet read this.  You can thank me later.

I could run through The Bells of St. Johns and point out why it's not awful, but I don't want to try to tell you to like things you don't like.

You are right: I don't like plot decisions that don't make any sense.  My exacting, rigorous standards demand that there not be nonsensical plot holes, plot threads that lead nowhere, or manufactured crises that simply get washed away when the writer decides it serves no purpose any further.

I'm so awful.

\as far as no bad writers for TV, I'm guessing you haven't seen about 80% of what's out there
\\or been made aware of the shows that were cancelled after one or two episodes of complete suckdom

your biatching is tiresome.


Yeah!
'
Get with the program!


Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything! You'll just make people sad, or worse, think!
 
2013-04-01 04:27:39 PM  
208 comments in a thread with "boobs" in the headline and there's precisely ONE pic of a clothed boob additionally covered halfway by an apron.

If this is what being a Dr Who fan is like, I'm glad I never got into it.
 
2013-04-01 04:36:33 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything!


Thing is, those contrary opinions are all fine.  What interests me is why someone who dislikes so much about a show keeps watching it.  There are people around who profess to like nothing at all about Moffat's version of Who and watch it religiously week in week out. Why?  There's no benefit to it.  What would possess a person to do something they dislike so much?

And while the whole "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument is trite and tired, it's worth remembering that while a showrunner doesn't listen to people ranting on internet sites - Moffat abandoned the internet, allegedly after death threats from fans -  they all pay attention to their ratings figures.
 
2013-04-01 05:24:39 PM  

Occupier: FirstNationalBastard: Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything!

Thing is, those contrary opinions are all fine.  What interests me is why someone who dislikes so much about a show keeps watching it.  There are people around who profess to like nothing at all about Moffat's version of Who and watch it religiously week in week out. Why?  There's no benefit to it.  What would possess a person to do something they dislike so much?

And while the whole "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument is trite and tired, it's worth remembering that while a showrunner doesn't listen to people ranting on internet sites - Moffat abandoned the internet, allegedly after death threats from fans -  they all pay attention to their ratings figures.


I answered that earlier in the thread: Who, even at its worst (and I do think this is the worst run since 2005), is still better than 80% of what is on TV right now.  Unfortunately, 80% of Doctor Who is better than what we're seeing right now as well.
 
2013-04-01 07:29:41 PM  
Does anyone else think that they introduced the spoonheads as a first version, and that we will see a more advanced version later on?

In fact, Is Oswin really a puzzle...or is she a trap for the Doctor laid by the Great Intelligence in order to absorb his mind?  Was the GI consuming human minds so that he could make the perfect lure for the doctor?

Look at it this way;  it probably takes A LOT longer to download a timelord mind than it does a human one...
 
2013-04-01 10:24:38 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: 208 comments in a thread with "boobs" in the headline and there's precisely ONE pic of a clothed boob additionally covered halfway by an apron.

If this is what being a Dr Who fan is like, I'm glad I never got into it.


OK, now, that's farking funny right there. I have to admit, you've got us pegged to a certain degree.

But there are plenty of other threads for boobie pix. There's a lot to dissect in "Doctor Who." Sometimes people want to exercise their minds on complex fiction.

Having said that, while remaining apropos to the thread...


i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

Yowza!
 
2013-04-01 10:47:29 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: FirstNationalBastard: Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything!

Thing is, those contrary opinions are all fine.  What interests me is why someone who dislikes so much about a show keeps watching it.  There are people around who profess to like nothing at all about Moffat's version of Who and watch it religiously week in week out. Why?  There's no benefit to it.  What would possess a person to do something they dislike so much?

And while the whole "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument is trite and tired, it's worth remembering that while a showrunner doesn't listen to people ranting on internet sites - Moffat abandoned the internet, allegedly after death threats from fans -  they all pay attention to their ratings figures.

I answered that earlier in the thread: Who, even at its worst (and I do think this is the worst run since 2005), is still better than 80% of what is on TV right now.  Unfortunately, 80% of Doctor Who is better than what we're seeing right now as well.


I'm with you 100% on the right - hell, with NuWho, I'd even say the duty - to hold this show to a high standard of common sense. When a show attempts to engage the intellect as much as "Doctor Who" - when it presents mysteries and puzzles and wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey deliberately drawn to be complex but ultimately knowable - the writers and showrunners set up high expectations, and cannot expect the audience to let it slide when they do something stupid.

Minor cock-ups are forgivable (e.g., the newsreader who was "hacked" in this episode would have been seen by everyone watching that broadcast, not just the Doctor, and that would have been a stupid mistake for the baddies to make), but larger flaws are not. For example, the Doctor knows the people he defeated were working for a "client," but as soon as he's defeated them, he wipes his hands and walks away. Is he not interested in who wanted to hack the minds of the world?

There are far too many examples of these kind of errors, errors too big and dumb to have been missed, so one can only assume they were ignored, in Moffat's run on "Doctor Who."

Having said that, 80% of "Doctor Who" is not, by any stretch, better than what we're seeing now. Emo-Tennant episodes were largely awful, Colin Baker was crippled by awful scripts, as was McCoy (who in my view was pretty awful himself), and the classic series was pretty hit-and-miss. They often worked way too hard at stretching those stories to 4 episodes or more, and the show was not nearly as intellectual or complex as it is now.

Right now the characters are great, and the stories are clever, and most of the pieces of the stories are clever. The only real problem with the current run is that that cleverness is frequently compromised by Moffat's lackadaisical attitude toward common sense and plot holes.

So the current series is often frustrating to watch, but I'll still watch each episode several times, having fun with the summersaults they create my brain.
 
2013-04-02 07:58:42 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: FirstNationalBastard: Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything!

Thing is, those contrary opinions are all fine.  What interests me is why someone who dislikes so much about a show keeps watching it.  There are people around who profess to like nothing at all about Moffat's version of Who and watch it religiously week in week out. Why?  There's no benefit to it.  What would possess a person to do something they dislike so much?

And while the whole "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument is trite and tired, it's worth remembering that while a showrunner doesn't listen to people ranting on internet sites - Moffat abandoned the internet, allegedly after death threats from fans -  they all pay attention to their ratings figures.

I answered that earlier in the thread: Who, even at its worst (and I do think this is the worst run since 2005), is still better than 80% of what is on TV right now.  Unfortunately, 80% of Doctor Who is better than what we're seeing right now as well.

I'm with you 100% on the right - hell, with NuWho, I'd even say the duty - to hold this show to a high standard of common sense. When a show attempts to engage the intellect as much as "Doctor Who" - when it presents mysteries and puzzles and wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey deliberately drawn to be complex but ultimately knowable - the writers and showrunners set up high expectations, and cannot expect the audience to let it slide when they do something stupid.

Minor cock-ups are forgivable (e.g., the newsreader who was "hacked" in this episode would have been seen by everyone watching that broadcast, not just the Doctor, and that would have been a stupid mistake for the baddies to make), but larger flaws are not. For example, ...


I have to disagree.  The history of Doctor Who is filled with thought-provoking episodes and scathing social commentary.  Each Doctor had one or two excellent episodes, and Baker 1 and Davison had a large number of episodes that were excellent.

Also, ponder: since 2005, we've had a number of "classic" Doctor episodes (some that don't necessarily fit the "thought provoking" label), such as Blink, The Doctor Dances, Dalek, Family of Blood, The Waters of Mars, and so on.  I can't think of a SINGLE Matt Smith episode that reaches that territory.  Instead, it seems like most Matt Smith episodes kinda hits the realm of 42: decent enough, but not quite all that great when you sit and think about it.  Even worse, some of the episodes hit Daleks in Manhattan territory.
 
2013-04-02 04:54:42 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Also, ponder: since 2005, we've had a number of "classic" Doctor episodes (some that don't necessarily fit the "thought provoking" label), such as Blink, The Doctor Dances, Dalek, Family of Blood, The Waters of Mars, and so on. I can't think of a SINGLE Matt Smith episode that reaches that territory. Instead, it seems like most Matt Smith episodes kinda hits the realm of 42: decent enough, but not quite all that great when you sit and think about it. Even worse, some of the episodes hit Daleks in Manhattan territory.


I see what you're saying about the deeper-thinking episodes. But I'd argue for "Vincent and the Doctor," "The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People," and "The Girl Who Waited" qualify.

But here's something we can certainly agree on: This picture released today by the Beeb has me all the more excited about the 50th anniversary episode:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-02 09:55:59 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: But here's something we can certainly agree on: This picture released today by the Beeb has me all the more excited about the 50th anniversary episode:


I'm still a lightweight when it comes to Classic Who.  What's the significance of this character/species?
 
2013-04-03 02:01:22 AM  

NeoCortex42: 100 Watt Walrus: But here's something we can certainly agree on: This picture released today by the Beeb has me all the more excited about the 50th anniversary episode:

I'm still a lightweight when it comes to Classic Who.  What's the significance of this character/species?


One of the greatest one-off monsters in the history of "Doctor Who" - the Zygons, from a Tom Baker story.

A little light reading for ya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_of_the_Zygons
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Zygon
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Terror_of_the_Zygons_(TV_story)
 
2013-04-03 03:40:03 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Also, ponder: since 2005, we've had a number of "classic" Doctor episodes (some that don't necessarily fit the "thought provoking" label), such as Blink, The Doctor Dances, Dalek, Family of Blood, The Waters of Mars, and so on. I can't think of a SINGLE Matt Smith episode that reaches that territory. Instead, it seems like most Matt Smith episodes kinda hits the realm of 42: decent enough, but not quite all that great when you sit and think about it. Even worse, some of the episodes hit Daleks in Manhattan territory.

I see what you're saying about the deeper-thinking episodes. But I'd argue for "Vincent and the Doctor," "The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People," and "The Girl Who Waited" qualify.


I'll also argue that Vincent and the Doctor was one of the deeper episodes of the Matt Smith era, and probably one of the 10 best episodes of the current series.
 
2013-04-03 03:56:10 AM  

Superjoe: The Cartmel Masterplan SUCKED, and wasn't hinted at as much as was originally planned because JNT, as terrible as he was, could tell that it would've sucked. I strongly doubt it would've happened even if the cancellation hadn't stopped it.


Lungbarrow is still canon.....
Haven't read it yet, but I found it online for free so I will. I know enough to see that they are holding it up as such.

Also I figured out why Rory and Amy couldn't come back from Manhattan......Dalek Caan's temporal shift.

//Holy shiat...that is a new zygon
 
2013-04-03 12:27:32 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: 100 Watt Walrus: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Also, ponder: since 2005, we've had a number of "classic" Doctor episodes (some that don't necessarily fit the "thought provoking" label), such as Blink, The Doctor Dances, Dalek, Family of Blood, The Waters of Mars, and so on. I can't think of a SINGLE Matt Smith episode that reaches that territory. Instead, it seems like most Matt Smith episodes kinda hits the realm of 42: decent enough, but not quite all that great when you sit and think about it. Even worse, some of the episodes hit Daleks in Manhattan territory.

I see what you're saying about the deeper-thinking episodes. But I'd argue for "Vincent and the Doctor," "The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People," and "The Girl Who Waited" qualify.

I'll also argue that Vincent and the Doctor was one of the deeper episodes of the Matt Smith era, and probably one of the 10 best episodes of the current series.


I will say that "Vincent and the Doctor" and "The Doctor's Wife" were at the top, though I'm still divided on the purposeful maudlin tone of "Vincent," along with the irritating presence of Amy Pond (more irritating that usual).  "The Rebel Flesh" arc was decent, but suffered from MAJOR plot holes.  "The Girl Who Waited" was also okay, as it helped deepen the character of the Doctor, but it, too, suffered from some flaws that were glaring.  Like I said, MOST of Smith's run tends to fall into this category: decent, but ...
 
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