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(Mirror.co.uk)   How will The Doctor pick up his new 20-something set of boobs? Will there be any good souffle recipes? And why does the Doctor have a motorcycle? Are motorcycles cool now? It's Doctor Who: 'The Bells of St. John', 8 PM on BBC America   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 221
    More: Interesting, Doctor Who, boobs, physicians, St. John, souffle, whovians, recipes  
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3005 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Mar 2013 at 7:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-01 01:59:28 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.


The thing I really want for fandom is to remember that shiatty writers don't get to write for TV.  Or anything else.  Also, there is a world of difference between writing or plot decisions that you don't like and ones that are actually bad.

If you want to read some actually bad writing, there's any amount of fic that doesn't approach competent let alone good.  Go find some, or better yet read this.  You can thank me later.

I could run through The Bells of St. Johns and point out why it's not awful, but I don't want to try to tell you to like things you don't like.
 
2013-04-01 02:03:58 PM

Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer: but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.

The thing I really want for fandom is to remember that shiatty writers don't get to write for TV.  Or anything else.   Also, there is a world of difference between writing or plot decisions that you don't like and ones that are actually bad.

If you want to read some actually bad writing, there's any amount of fic that doesn't approach competent let alone good.  Go find some, or better yet read this.  You can thank me later.

I could run through The Bells of St. Johns and point out why it's not awful, but I don't want to try to tell you to like things you don't like.


You are right: I don't like plot decisions that don't make any sense.  My exacting, rigorous standards demand that there not be nonsensical plot holes, plot threads that lead nowhere, or manufactured crises that simply get washed away when the writer decides it serves no purpose any further.

I'm so awful.

\as far as no bad writers for TV, I'm guessing you haven't seen about 80% of what's out there
\\or been made aware of the shows that were cancelled after one or two episodes of complete suckdom
 
2013-04-01 02:31:19 PM

HallsOfMandos: Surprised this thread died already and I am here to resurrect it!  I noticed a lot of people caught that the author of the book was Amelia Williams, but what about the leaf (not the same book I don't think)?  She said it was page 1 or the 1st page or something - anyone have any interesting theories?


When she went to see the first thing, there were leaves there. She pressed one to remember it.

As for the age, those might have been the years where she did something. She'd been with the family for a year. The 23 is missing because she hadn't done anything for the previous year, but she had made up her mind not to miss anything this year. That's why she had already written 24.
 
2013-04-01 02:44:29 PM

CptnSpldng: Lusiphur: At least they went with a Triumph. A Norton would have been cooler.

Vincent Black Lightning 1952


yes!

/fires up some Richard Thompson
 
2013-04-01 02:51:59 PM

TheManofPA: On the clip on controversy, I like to think it is your standard DW continuity error/that was his emergency protocol bowtie.

Mind you,all the bow ties he wears are "too perfect" that they are probably clip-ons, BUT in the first Matt Smith episode, he does debate between all the ties on the rooftop before tying the bowtie.

/just wanted to say clip on controversy


Clipgate?
 
2013-04-01 02:55:39 PM

Pepperjack: Agreed. I read an interesting quote from Moffat about the origin of River Song's name. He and RTD were on the message boards at the time and noticed the fans abbreviating the episode titles. Aliens Of London became AOL. They decided to try to make ep titles that would spell naughty words. Moffat came up with At River Song's End to spell ARSE. They laughed and he forgot about it until he needed a character name when writing Silence In The Library. Then, when he took over, Amy Pond was named Pond to be able to tie into the Melody Pond/River Song arc he had in mind. That guy is so far ahead of us we should probably just give up.


Steven Moffat spelling ARSE? If you've watched his fantastic Coupling then that's hardly a surprise.  Probably half the lines Jeff says have "arse" or "breasts" in them.
 
2013-04-01 03:27:43 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer: but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.

The thing I really want for fandom is to remember that shiatty writers don't get to write for TV.  Or anything else.   Also, there is a world of difference between writing or plot decisions that you don't like and ones that are actually bad.

If you want to read some actually bad writing, there's any amount of fic that doesn't approach competent let alone good.  Go find some, or better yet read this.  You can thank me later.

I could run through The Bells of St. Johns and point out why it's not awful, but I don't want to try to tell you to like things you don't like.

You are right: I don't like plot decisions that don't make any sense.  My exacting, rigorous standards demand that there not be nonsensical plot holes, plot threads that lead nowhere, or manufactured crises that simply get washed away when the writer decides it serves no purpose any further.

I'm so awful.

\as far as no bad writers for TV, I'm guessing you haven't seen about 80% of what's out there
\\or been made aware of the shows that were cancelled after one or two episodes of complete suckdom


your biatching is tiresome.
 
2013-04-01 03:34:56 PM

Girion47: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: whizbangthedirtfarmer: but don't expect me to worship everything that occurs or to gloss over some incredibly shiatty writing/plot decisions.

The thing I really want for fandom is to remember that shiatty writers don't get to write for TV.  Or anything else.   Also, there is a world of difference between writing or plot decisions that you don't like and ones that are actually bad.

If you want to read some actually bad writing, there's any amount of fic that doesn't approach competent let alone good.  Go find some, or better yet read this.  You can thank me later.

I could run through The Bells of St. Johns and point out why it's not awful, but I don't want to try to tell you to like things you don't like.

You are right: I don't like plot decisions that don't make any sense.  My exacting, rigorous standards demand that there not be nonsensical plot holes, plot threads that lead nowhere, or manufactured crises that simply get washed away when the writer decides it serves no purpose any further.

I'm so awful.

\as far as no bad writers for TV, I'm guessing you haven't seen about 80% of what's out there
\\or been made aware of the shows that were cancelled after one or two episodes of complete suckdom

your biatching is tiresome.


Yeah!
'
Get with the program!


Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything! You'll just make people sad, or worse, think!
 
2013-04-01 04:27:39 PM
208 comments in a thread with "boobs" in the headline and there's precisely ONE pic of a clothed boob additionally covered halfway by an apron.

If this is what being a Dr Who fan is like, I'm glad I never got into it.
 
2013-04-01 04:36:33 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything!


Thing is, those contrary opinions are all fine.  What interests me is why someone who dislikes so much about a show keeps watching it.  There are people around who profess to like nothing at all about Moffat's version of Who and watch it religiously week in week out. Why?  There's no benefit to it.  What would possess a person to do something they dislike so much?

And while the whole "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument is trite and tired, it's worth remembering that while a showrunner doesn't listen to people ranting on internet sites - Moffat abandoned the internet, allegedly after death threats from fans -  they all pay attention to their ratings figures.
 
2013-04-01 05:24:39 PM

Occupier: FirstNationalBastard: Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything!

Thing is, those contrary opinions are all fine.  What interests me is why someone who dislikes so much about a show keeps watching it.  There are people around who profess to like nothing at all about Moffat's version of Who and watch it religiously week in week out. Why?  There's no benefit to it.  What would possess a person to do something they dislike so much?

And while the whole "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument is trite and tired, it's worth remembering that while a showrunner doesn't listen to people ranting on internet sites - Moffat abandoned the internet, allegedly after death threats from fans -  they all pay attention to their ratings figures.


I answered that earlier in the thread: Who, even at its worst (and I do think this is the worst run since 2005), is still better than 80% of what is on TV right now.  Unfortunately, 80% of Doctor Who is better than what we're seeing right now as well.
 
2013-04-01 07:29:41 PM
Does anyone else think that they introduced the spoonheads as a first version, and that we will see a more advanced version later on?

In fact, Is Oswin really a puzzle...or is she a trap for the Doctor laid by the Great Intelligence in order to absorb his mind?  Was the GI consuming human minds so that he could make the perfect lure for the doctor?

Look at it this way;  it probably takes A LOT longer to download a timelord mind than it does a human one...
 
2013-04-01 10:24:38 PM

rufus-t-firefly: 208 comments in a thread with "boobs" in the headline and there's precisely ONE pic of a clothed boob additionally covered halfway by an apron.

If this is what being a Dr Who fan is like, I'm glad I never got into it.


OK, now, that's farking funny right there. I have to admit, you've got us pegged to a certain degree.

But there are plenty of other threads for boobie pix. There's a lot to dissect in "Doctor Who." Sometimes people want to exercise their minds on complex fiction.

Having said that, while remaining apropos to the thread...


i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

Yowza!
 
2013-04-01 10:47:29 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: FirstNationalBastard: Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything!

Thing is, those contrary opinions are all fine.  What interests me is why someone who dislikes so much about a show keeps watching it.  There are people around who profess to like nothing at all about Moffat's version of Who and watch it religiously week in week out. Why?  There's no benefit to it.  What would possess a person to do something they dislike so much?

And while the whole "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument is trite and tired, it's worth remembering that while a showrunner doesn't listen to people ranting on internet sites - Moffat abandoned the internet, allegedly after death threats from fans -  they all pay attention to their ratings figures.

I answered that earlier in the thread: Who, even at its worst (and I do think this is the worst run since 2005), is still better than 80% of what is on TV right now.  Unfortunately, 80% of Doctor Who is better than what we're seeing right now as well.


I'm with you 100% on the right - hell, with NuWho, I'd even say the duty - to hold this show to a high standard of common sense. When a show attempts to engage the intellect as much as "Doctor Who" - when it presents mysteries and puzzles and wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey deliberately drawn to be complex but ultimately knowable - the writers and showrunners set up high expectations, and cannot expect the audience to let it slide when they do something stupid.

Minor cock-ups are forgivable (e.g., the newsreader who was "hacked" in this episode would have been seen by everyone watching that broadcast, not just the Doctor, and that would have been a stupid mistake for the baddies to make), but larger flaws are not. For example, the Doctor knows the people he defeated were working for a "client," but as soon as he's defeated them, he wipes his hands and walks away. Is he not interested in who wanted to hack the minds of the world?

There are far too many examples of these kind of errors, errors too big and dumb to have been missed, so one can only assume they were ignored, in Moffat's run on "Doctor Who."

Having said that, 80% of "Doctor Who" is not, by any stretch, better than what we're seeing now. Emo-Tennant episodes were largely awful, Colin Baker was crippled by awful scripts, as was McCoy (who in my view was pretty awful himself), and the classic series was pretty hit-and-miss. They often worked way too hard at stretching those stories to 4 episodes or more, and the show was not nearly as intellectual or complex as it is now.

Right now the characters are great, and the stories are clever, and most of the pieces of the stories are clever. The only real problem with the current run is that that cleverness is frequently compromised by Moffat's lackadaisical attitude toward common sense and plot holes.

So the current series is often frustrating to watch, but I'll still watch each episode several times, having fun with the summersaults they create my brain.
 
2013-04-02 07:58:42 AM

100 Watt Walrus: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Occupier: FirstNationalBastard: Having opinions contrary to those who want to either spew their headcanon onto the page or rave about how every latest episode is the new BEST EPISODE EVAR is tiresome, and if you disagree, you should just quit watching.

Talking about problems with the show won't help anything!

Thing is, those contrary opinions are all fine.  What interests me is why someone who dislikes so much about a show keeps watching it.  There are people around who profess to like nothing at all about Moffat's version of Who and watch it religiously week in week out. Why?  There's no benefit to it.  What would possess a person to do something they dislike so much?

And while the whole "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument is trite and tired, it's worth remembering that while a showrunner doesn't listen to people ranting on internet sites - Moffat abandoned the internet, allegedly after death threats from fans -  they all pay attention to their ratings figures.

I answered that earlier in the thread: Who, even at its worst (and I do think this is the worst run since 2005), is still better than 80% of what is on TV right now.  Unfortunately, 80% of Doctor Who is better than what we're seeing right now as well.

I'm with you 100% on the right - hell, with NuWho, I'd even say the duty - to hold this show to a high standard of common sense. When a show attempts to engage the intellect as much as "Doctor Who" - when it presents mysteries and puzzles and wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey deliberately drawn to be complex but ultimately knowable - the writers and showrunners set up high expectations, and cannot expect the audience to let it slide when they do something stupid.

Minor cock-ups are forgivable (e.g., the newsreader who was "hacked" in this episode would have been seen by everyone watching that broadcast, not just the Doctor, and that would have been a stupid mistake for the baddies to make), but larger flaws are not. For example, ...


I have to disagree.  The history of Doctor Who is filled with thought-provoking episodes and scathing social commentary.  Each Doctor had one or two excellent episodes, and Baker 1 and Davison had a large number of episodes that were excellent.

Also, ponder: since 2005, we've had a number of "classic" Doctor episodes (some that don't necessarily fit the "thought provoking" label), such as Blink, The Doctor Dances, Dalek, Family of Blood, The Waters of Mars, and so on.  I can't think of a SINGLE Matt Smith episode that reaches that territory.  Instead, it seems like most Matt Smith episodes kinda hits the realm of 42: decent enough, but not quite all that great when you sit and think about it.  Even worse, some of the episodes hit Daleks in Manhattan territory.
 
2013-04-02 04:54:42 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Also, ponder: since 2005, we've had a number of "classic" Doctor episodes (some that don't necessarily fit the "thought provoking" label), such as Blink, The Doctor Dances, Dalek, Family of Blood, The Waters of Mars, and so on. I can't think of a SINGLE Matt Smith episode that reaches that territory. Instead, it seems like most Matt Smith episodes kinda hits the realm of 42: decent enough, but not quite all that great when you sit and think about it. Even worse, some of the episodes hit Daleks in Manhattan territory.


I see what you're saying about the deeper-thinking episodes. But I'd argue for "Vincent and the Doctor," "The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People," and "The Girl Who Waited" qualify.

But here's something we can certainly agree on: This picture released today by the Beeb has me all the more excited about the 50th anniversary episode:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-02 09:55:59 PM

100 Watt Walrus: But here's something we can certainly agree on: This picture released today by the Beeb has me all the more excited about the 50th anniversary episode:


I'm still a lightweight when it comes to Classic Who.  What's the significance of this character/species?
 
2013-04-03 02:01:22 AM

NeoCortex42: 100 Watt Walrus: But here's something we can certainly agree on: This picture released today by the Beeb has me all the more excited about the 50th anniversary episode:

I'm still a lightweight when it comes to Classic Who.  What's the significance of this character/species?


One of the greatest one-off monsters in the history of "Doctor Who" - the Zygons, from a Tom Baker story.

A little light reading for ya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_of_the_Zygons
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Zygon
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Terror_of_the_Zygons_(TV_story)
 
2013-04-03 03:40:03 AM

100 Watt Walrus: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Also, ponder: since 2005, we've had a number of "classic" Doctor episodes (some that don't necessarily fit the "thought provoking" label), such as Blink, The Doctor Dances, Dalek, Family of Blood, The Waters of Mars, and so on. I can't think of a SINGLE Matt Smith episode that reaches that territory. Instead, it seems like most Matt Smith episodes kinda hits the realm of 42: decent enough, but not quite all that great when you sit and think about it. Even worse, some of the episodes hit Daleks in Manhattan territory.

I see what you're saying about the deeper-thinking episodes. But I'd argue for "Vincent and the Doctor," "The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People," and "The Girl Who Waited" qualify.


I'll also argue that Vincent and the Doctor was one of the deeper episodes of the Matt Smith era, and probably one of the 10 best episodes of the current series.
 
2013-04-03 03:56:10 AM

Superjoe: The Cartmel Masterplan SUCKED, and wasn't hinted at as much as was originally planned because JNT, as terrible as he was, could tell that it would've sucked. I strongly doubt it would've happened even if the cancellation hadn't stopped it.


Lungbarrow is still canon.....
Haven't read it yet, but I found it online for free so I will. I know enough to see that they are holding it up as such.

Also I figured out why Rory and Amy couldn't come back from Manhattan......Dalek Caan's temporal shift.

//Holy shiat...that is a new zygon
 
2013-04-03 12:27:32 PM

FirstNationalBastard: 100 Watt Walrus: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Also, ponder: since 2005, we've had a number of "classic" Doctor episodes (some that don't necessarily fit the "thought provoking" label), such as Blink, The Doctor Dances, Dalek, Family of Blood, The Waters of Mars, and so on. I can't think of a SINGLE Matt Smith episode that reaches that territory. Instead, it seems like most Matt Smith episodes kinda hits the realm of 42: decent enough, but not quite all that great when you sit and think about it. Even worse, some of the episodes hit Daleks in Manhattan territory.

I see what you're saying about the deeper-thinking episodes. But I'd argue for "Vincent and the Doctor," "The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People," and "The Girl Who Waited" qualify.

I'll also argue that Vincent and the Doctor was one of the deeper episodes of the Matt Smith era, and probably one of the 10 best episodes of the current series.


I will say that "Vincent and the Doctor" and "The Doctor's Wife" were at the top, though I'm still divided on the purposeful maudlin tone of "Vincent," along with the irritating presence of Amy Pond (more irritating that usual).  "The Rebel Flesh" arc was decent, but suffered from MAJOR plot holes.  "The Girl Who Waited" was also okay, as it helped deepen the character of the Doctor, but it, too, suffered from some flaws that were glaring.  Like I said, MOST of Smith's run tends to fall into this category: decent, but ...
 
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