If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   So what do the Hindenburg and the new San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge span have in common?   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 80
    More: Fail, San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, San Francisco, Labor Day, Loma Prieta, hydrogen, Department of Transportation, San Francisco-Oakland  
•       •       •

15552 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Mar 2013 at 8:56 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



80 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-03-30 11:23:30 AM
So the boltmaker probably failed in their quality control at the raw material level...
But then according to wikipedia there's no ASTM test for this...
 
2013-03-30 11:26:14 AM

SurelyShirley: Really? Legislators = bridge engineers?
I must say, it's once again proof of California's forward thinking. If legislators can do that job, there's no need to keep the Caltrans engineers on the payroll = saving tax payer money.
If they continue like that, I might move back there again.


There were some news articles about CalTrans inspection engineers getting paid for inspecting things, but not actually ever doing any work.  And they still got full benes (retirement) after being canned.  I read it in the Comical (err, ah, the Chronicle) even. Not exactly a bastion of radical conservative thought.

Between the likelihood of kickbacks from the "lowest bid" contractor (it's California, after all) & recent history of non-inspecting CalTrans inspectors, I'm totally not shocked that something that they could have tested for (long before the bolts were sealed in concrete) was missed by CalTrans.
 
2013-03-30 11:27:56 AM

fat boy: Read a comment that they used cheap steel from China.


Careful, that's racist.
 
2013-03-30 11:32:45 AM
They're due to dock in New Jersey?
 
2013-03-30 11:35:00 AM
Both traffic in Deutsch?
 
2013-03-30 11:40:31 AM
I don't know, but you can make this anagram from them:

Hydrogen gas in CA burns block in a bad fire, Dan.
 
2013-03-30 11:54:45 AM
Northridge earthquake damage was fixed in a year or so.  Been 20+ years since Loma Prieta and we're still waiting.  And you wonder why some favor splitting CA in two
 
2013-03-30 12:05:11 PM
Actually this is a great idea in bridge building.  Sure steel is strong, but if you add something lighter than air to it, it will try to float like a balloon.  They were trying to make a true suspension bridge.  One that the only thing holding it to the ground is the roadbed.
 
2013-03-30 12:12:14 PM
I can't believe they didn't test the bolts before using them in a bridge. Doing random tests on representative samples for quality assurance would be the minimum level of due diligence. When the Brooklyn Bridge was built they let the manufacturer of the wire for the suspension cable choose and submit the samples and they kept resubmitting the same good steel while using inferior steel in the actual cable until they got caught at which time they made them add good steel wire to make up for it.
 
2013-03-30 12:18:14 PM

OscarTamerz: I can't believe they didn't test the bolts before using them in a bridge. Doing random tests on representative samples for quality assurance would be the minimum level of due diligence. When the Brooklyn Bridge was built they let the manufacturer of the wire for the suspension cable choose and submit the samples and they kept resubmitting the same good steel while using inferior steel in the actual cable until they got caught at which time they made them add good steel wire to make up for it.


They said they did a random sample, I think. They didn't test every bolt, but they did test, according to CalTrans.

How legit the sample was (i.e. one bolt, or a statistically representative sample), and if the tests were actually performed or not, that's up to your faith in CalTrans.
 
2013-03-30 12:46:19 PM
Hydrogen embrittlement is a problem when you try to electroplate these high tensile steels, but someone probably thought they had the cadmium plating process right. But some slightly wrong electrochemistry there will eat your lunch and profit margins.
 
2013-03-30 12:51:31 PM

CrashRhinoceros: Like I commented in the Reddit thread on this, if the design of this bridge is such that slightly defective materials are going to cause it to fall apart, then the bridge has been designed poorly. This bridge (and all modern constructions) should be designed to use the crappiest materials available just to build in extra safety and longevity. Overbuild overbuild overbuild. The costs of doing so are wildly overshadowed by reduced maintenance and the need for replacement more frequently. This bridge is crap and I, for one, will not be crossing it.


Another item to add the list of "Great Ideas that will Never Happen" because it's not in anyone's interest (who matters) to do this.  So you just need more of all the poor materials and it still ends up costing a lot.  Best to just go on the cheap and think happy thoughts.
 
2013-03-30 01:11:54 PM

Watubi: Northridge earthquake damage was fixed in a year or so.  Been 20+ years since Loma Prieta and we're still waiting.  And you wonder why some favor splitting CA in two


Your analogy doesn't make any sense. The collapsed portion of the Bay Bridge was fixed as fast as the collapsed portion of the 10 freeway. If they had been required to replace the entire freeway from downtown to Santa Monica, then you might have a more equal comparison.

And if you want to claim that SoCal can't do stupid, remember that the collapsed overpass on the 10 had been scheduled for earthquake retrofit, but they wanted to rebuild it quickly, so they built it to the old standards, then had to retrofit it again anyway.
 
2013-03-30 01:28:24 PM

poe_zlaw: Oh. is this where everyone complains about "lowest bidder"?  The truth is...
 The contractor was the lowest bidder and in situations like this, the contractor has no choice of the material used because it's specified in the contract.  Along with with the paint used, lights, just about everything used is dictated to the contractor where to buy and from whom, model #, etc.


Yes, and part of that specification was a certain tolerance and tinsel strength, which the bolts have failed.  Additionally, they failed AFTER installation in such a way that they can't actually be replaced.  No one knows how they are going to fix this, since the section of road is already installed and they can't just take it back out to replace the shoddy steel.
 
2013-03-30 01:48:50 PM

Mokmo: So the boltmaker probably failed in their quality control at the raw material level...


Hydrogen embrittlement typically happens later, during processing. One common route is during galvanising. The material is pickled in acid to remove rust, some of the acid remains on the metal and then the hot dip drives it into the underlying material.
 
2013-03-30 01:54:45 PM
grokca: Manatees?

Ding, threads done
 
2013-03-30 02:12:36 PM

CrashRhinoceros: , if the design of this bridge is such that slightly defective materials are going to cause it to fall apart,


Guess what? That's every bridge ever. One of the limiting factors to bridge design has been the fact that it wasn't possible to produce steel with certain properties AND without impurities that would limit said properties. This was particularly the case with suspension bridges where you need steel with just insane tensile strength but to actually have that you need to make sure the steel doesn't have any impurities, which isn't exactly the easiest thing to achieve.
 
2013-03-30 02:37:55 PM
Deathfrogg:
The General Contractor for the whole bridge job is a Chinese firm. Thank you, Ahnold.

The General Contractor on the job is Fluor/American Bridge JV.  Which of those is Chinese?
 
2013-03-30 02:48:33 PM
they did use Chinese steel but the bolts are from Ohio
 
2013-03-30 02:51:48 PM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: they did use Chinese steel but the bolts are from Ohio


Maybe the company in Ohio is Chinese, and they hired Chinamen to make the bolts, and they had Chinese food for lunch.

In Chinese-made lunch cartons.
 
2013-03-30 03:11:58 PM

legion_of_doo: E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: they did use Chinese steel but the bolts are from Ohio

Maybe the company in Ohio is Chinese, and they hired Chinamen to make the bolts, and they had Chinese food for lunch.

In Chinese-made lunch cartons.


They don't staple those anymore. Probably so they're microwavable.
 
2013-03-30 03:56:16 PM
I'll take the extra time and miles to go around the Bay Area rather than ever take that farking bridge.
 
2013-03-30 06:35:44 PM
They were both flaming?
 
2013-03-30 07:04:44 PM

legion_of_doo: OscarTamerz: I can't believe they didn't test the bolts before using them in a bridge. Doing random tests on representative samples for quality assurance would be the minimum level of due diligence. When the Brooklyn Bridge was built they let the manufacturer of the wire for the suspension cable choose and submit the samples and they kept resubmitting the same good steel while using inferior steel in the actual cable until they got caught at which time they made them add good steel wire to make up for it.

They said they did a random sample, I think. They didn't test every bolt, but they did test, according to CalTrans.

How legit the sample was (i.e. one bolt, or a statistically representative sample), and if the tests were actually performed or not, that's up to your faith in CalTrans.


So the supplier paid off the contractor and Caltrans. Got it.
 
Ral
2013-03-30 08:20:24 PM
That's what they get for buying the steel from Orren Boyle.
 
2013-03-30 10:32:40 PM

Oldiron_79: grokca: Manatees?

Ding, threads done


Be careful, for the apostrophe Nazis lurk everywhere.
 
2013-03-31 01:30:18 AM

relcec: poe_zlaw: Oh. is this where everyone complains about "lowest bidder"?  The truth is...
 The contractor was the lowest bidder and in situations like this, the contractor has no choice of the material used because it's specified in the contract.  Along with with the paint used, lights, just about everything used is dictated to the contractor where to buy and from whom, model #, etc.

The california government didn't call for H in the bolts, they just picked the contractor who was likely to deliver crap. I'd also like to point out these are the same decision makers liberals are counting on to engineer a perfect society.


If CalTrans was put in charge of the state, things might actually start working reasonably well again. Their financial and reliability track record on large and small projects is better than most states'.

Also, if CalTrans was in charge, this stupid bridge fiasco would never have happened. They wanted a plain cheap surface-hugging span, not a mind-bogglingly expensive suspension bridge that no ship is ever going to sail under. That one gets pinned on Jerry Brown, and all the legislators who wanted a crowning achievement on their resume.
 
2013-03-31 04:33:12 AM

desertfool: fat boy: Read a comment that they used cheap steel from China. Anyone know if true?

I remember hearing that as well, but the FTA says that this is from an Ohio based company. But they could have outsourced as well.


Either way, the Chinese steel only makes it worse.
 
2013-03-31 08:59:57 AM
rkiller1: Oldiron_79: grokca: Manatees?

Ding, threads done

Be careful, for the apostrophe Nazis lurk everywhere.


Illinois Apostrophe Nazis? I farking hate apostrophe Nazis.
 
2013-03-31 01:01:55 PM
"A View To A Kill" with Christopher Walken?
 
Displayed 30 of 80 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report