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(BBC)   Signs things may be getting out of hand on the Korean Peninsula, #67: even Russia says, 'damn, dudes, back it up a notch'   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 300
    More: Followup, Korean Peninsula, Russia, North Koreans, russian foreign minister, military drills, B-52, imperialists, Pyongyang  
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16760 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Mar 2013 at 2:16 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-29 03:12:12 PM

another cultural observer: The the big-ass military afterburners just kicked in at the Sky Harbor base. I haven't heard those during the day in a long time. ... If the Stratotankers all take off, let us know.


I guess the idea of S'ing TFU about military activities and troop movements is pre-Dan Rather thinking.
 
2013-03-29 03:12:33 PM

Myria: tinyarena: What a North Korean attack on the US mainland would look like:
[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 304x171]

What a US attack on North Korea would look like:
[cdn.dipity.com image 600x314]

I'm not seeing the problem here.

The problem is a shiatload of bunkered artillery permanently aimed at Seoul.  There is no way that anyone - including the United States, Russia and China combined - could destroy North Korea's artillery threat before Seoul is shelled to bits.


Oh no, that's wrong...quite a few Farkers have assured me North Korea is absolutely no threat, and SK can handle them within a week.

There won't even be any broken windows in Seoul!
 
2013-03-29 03:13:40 PM

Resident Muslim: I find this thread confusing:

1) High activity at missile sites = saber-rattling. Flying planes over NK/aircraft carriers/ Military exercises at SK= just business as usual
2) we want peace = keep sending more military in that area and freaking the NKs out
3) poor NK people dying of hunger = let's go ahead and nuke NK.

I'm missing something, just not sure what.


User application errors.
 
2013-03-29 03:13:44 PM

PunGent: And you can hide a nuke in something smaller than a container ship; hell, if they were ballsy enough, they could load a dirty bomb onto one of their old Romeo subs, drive it close enough to our west coast that detonation would contaminate a big chunk of property.

It's not like they'd worry about sacrificing the crew...


I'd imagine that sub wouldn't be allowed within 1000 miles of Hawaii, let alone the west coast.
 
2013-03-29 03:15:19 PM

pyrotek85: What are they targeting in Alaska anyway? We have cities there but they're hardly striking at the heart of the USA.


Don't we have a bunch of oil wells and pipelines and whatnot up there?  Pissing off the oil companies would cause some pretty big headaches.  Mostly for NK, but for others as well.
 
2013-03-29 03:16:38 PM

WhoopAssWayne: The last thing we need is our great warrior/community activist president getting us into another costly war. It's just the kind of stupidity we've come to expect from this thin-skinned, chickenhawk chickensh*t and I bet he's chomping at the bit to jump right in if things go south. As citizens and taxpayers, we must make it a priority to strip war powers from both the president and the congress. All foreign military actions must be paid with war bonds, not tax money, just like World War II. If the people don't support the action and don't buy the bonds, there's no money to fight, and no war. And if our divisive little sh*thead of a president stirs up the usual liberal idiots enough to actually get us involved somewhere, all it will take to get us out is a shift in popular opinion. If we had this model in Iraq, I'm guessing we would have been out after only a couple of years. But the bottom line is this: No tax money for foreign wars!


9/10  You forgot to use Fartbongo.  That cost you a point.
 
2013-03-29 03:17:14 PM

Man On Pink Corner: another cultural observer: The the big-ass military afterburners just kicked in at the Sky Harbor base. I haven't heard those during the day in a long time. ... If the Stratotankers all take off, let us know.

I guess the idea of S'ing TFU about military activities and troop movements is pre-Dan Rather thinking.


I am not North Korean Intelligence.  I am American.  Baseball!  Mickey Mouse!
 
2013-03-29 03:17:30 PM
we need to just parachute a couple million tablets/ 3G ipad type things into Best Korea set to instantly play videos debunking the dear leader myth and showing what life is like in worst korea, etc. Like a modern airborne leaflet propaganda campaign. Bonus: keep the iPad
 
2013-03-29 03:18:35 PM

Fribble: I would bet B-2's for SEAD only.


I'd take that bet.  Never heard of a bomber, much less a B-2, flying SEAD/DEAD.  Plenty of task-specific aircraft in-theater already, I'd think.

/I've lost bets before
 
2013-03-29 03:19:28 PM
As far as funding any necessary military action, at least the Romans and the rioters in 68 had enough sense to take the loot home.
 
2013-03-29 03:19:47 PM

Precision Boobery: It's good to know world leaders and prominent diplomats have as much sense as the below-average forum poster.

Don't feed the trolls.  It's a pretty farking simple rule.



So are you saying that we should display no signs of aggression in response to his threats to attack the US? I think that is a terrible idea.

I don't think we should preemptively attack everyone we disagree with around the globe, but allowing countries to make empty threats of nuclear attack is not okay.

This is not feeding a troll. This is making a statement to the world at large. I am a liberal, but I would never claim we should just let NK's threats go without response.
 
2013-03-29 03:21:09 PM

Hack Patooey: said it had put missiles on stand-by to hit the US.

Hit the US, how?  Are they gonna load em onto trucks and push them off the back?


Not all Asians are good at math I guess.
 
2013-03-29 03:22:11 PM

fsbilly: we need to just parachute a couple million tablets/ 3G ipad type things into Best Korea set to instantly play videos debunking the dear leader myth and showing what life is like in worst korea, etc. Like a modern airborne leaflet propaganda campaign. Bonus: keep the iPad


Not even that.  I'm sure a few PRK military leaders can be bought.  Somebody should coup d'etat his ass.  We should help.
 
2013-03-29 03:23:48 PM

wxboy: Fribble: I would bet B-2's for SEAD only. If it gets real real we'll send the birds

[www.nationalmuseum.af.mil image 850x686]
[image.rvmagonline.com image 850x1133]

I don't know.  We might save the real good stuff for a more formidable enemy.  No need to waste valuable ICBMs when the B2's are probably nearly invulnerable to whatever NK has got anyway.  Also an airstrike could provide even more surprise if done properly, meaning we could just go after the NK leadership structure without having to carpet-nuke the place.


I think the risk of exposure is too great for a B-2 nuclear mission. Deterrent from SLBM or ICBM means the B-2 is free to perform SEAD while we create a strike package for the "bunkered" artillery.

Honestly I highly doubt we would need to use boomers against North Korea. This will create quite an issue with the other party to START and may be too politically "radioactive" to occur.
 
2013-03-29 03:24:23 PM
They cannot feed their people, cannot win a war. My conspiracy theory:
This is a ploy to for the US to get involved so dear leader can open up the society via defeat. They accept the help of the US to rebuild and emulate the south. It's so stupid it just might work.
 
2013-03-29 03:24:56 PM
Not true, B-2s are often tasked against higher level SAM systems, their design is optimized against the acquisition and target tracking radars of those SAMs.  They are used as DEAD assets as opposed to non stealth aircraft when the SAMs can't be struck with cruise missiles.

/26 years USAF pilot
 
2013-03-29 03:25:17 PM
Ah, scaled nuclear war.  The notion that if we decimate the entire planet, that 2,000 years later when things start to lose their toxicity and the mutated vegetation re-emerges that whoever is still around to sweep up the ashes has won.  If our species are the smart ones, god help us.
 
2013-03-29 03:26:31 PM

Resident Muslim: I find this thread confusing:

1) High activity at missile sites = saber-rattling. Flying planes over NK/aircraft carriers/ Military exercises at SK= just business as usual
2) we want peace = keep sending more military in that area and freaking the NKs out
3) poor NK people dying of hunger = let's go ahead and nuke NK.

I'm missing something, just not sure what.


We DO want peace.  Hell, SK want reunification.

NORTH Korea started the last war over there, and has shown no sign of even wanting to sign a formal peace treaty since then.
 
2013-03-29 03:26:44 PM

Mighty_Joe: neongoats: I can't wait until some forum genius starts pants shiatting about container ships. It always happens in these NK threads.

I searched the last 3 Korea threads and the only person mentioning container ships is you, forum genius.


Oh, snappage.
 
2013-03-29 03:26:50 PM
Sorry, that was in response to Thunderboy
 
2013-03-29 03:27:57 PM

ransack.: theorellior: ransack.: I thought the phrase was vicious cycle and not vicious circle

I've usually heard "circle".

A teacher in high school told my class that it's actually cycle and everyone says it wrong. I never actually researched it myself, I just trusted Mrs. Chester


It's usually circle. It's used in Logic. I looked up references and vicious circle has its own wikipedia page (economics) and although vicious cycle has an entry in the dictionary it's very short compared with vicious circle which fills up the whole page.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vicious+circle
 
2013-03-29 03:28:16 PM

neongoats: scottydoesntknow: Mighty_Joe: neongoats: I can't wait until some forum genius starts pants shiatting about container ships. It always happens in these NK threads.

I searched the last 3 Korea threads and the only person mentioning container ships is you, forum genius.

It's like Beetlejuice. If he says it enough, something's bound to happen. Not sure what, but something...

I had to sleep and work, missed the last couple threads, but seriously, it will happen. It's the big fantasy they talk about in these threads.. NK smuggles nuke in container ship, blows up San Francisco. I'm actually surprised you hadn't heard of that, its a big popular fark trope about NK attacking us.


[citation needed]
 
2013-03-29 03:28:26 PM

angrymonday: They cannot feed their people, cannot win a war. My conspiracy theory:
This is a ploy to for the US to get involved so dear leader can open up the society via defeat. They accept the help of the US to rebuild and emulate the south. It's so stupid it just might work.


I have a feeling that Kim Jong Un is not as crazy or dumb as people make him out to be - your theory is actually plausible, though somewhat unlikely.
 
2013-03-29 03:28:54 PM

pyrotek85: mr_a: The map was interesting. I hadn't quire realized that NK would have to fly missiles over Russian (and maybe even Chinese) airspace to hit Alaska. That ought to help complicate things.

Would Russia see it as an act of war by NK? Would the US target missiles with ABM weapons over either of these countries?

To be honest, I am surprised that the Chinese haven't just made this guy disappear by now.

This. They usually show a flat map and not a globe, so this is less obvious when you're not studying closely. It just makes their threats even more absurd. What are they targeting in Alaska anyway? We have cities there but they're hardly striking at the heart of the USA.


It doesn't matter why they are targeting Alaska, it is the consequences that are truly frightening.  Do you remember what happened when we lost our collective shiat because a group of jackasses killed about 3,000 people by flying a few planes into three buildings?  What on earth do you suppose would happen if this clown killed 30,000 by bombing the city of Anchorage?
 
2013-03-29 03:30:15 PM

Fribble: wxboy: Fribble: I would bet B-2's for SEAD only. If it gets real real we'll send the birds

[www.nationalmuseum.af.mil image 850x686]
[image.rvmagonline.com image 850x1133]

I don't know.  We might save the real good stuff for a more formidable enemy.  No need to waste valuable ICBMs when the B2's are probably nearly invulnerable to whatever NK has got anyway.  Also an airstrike could provide even more surprise if done properly, meaning we could just go after the NK leadership structure without having to carpet-nuke the place.

I think the risk of exposure is too great for a B-2 nuclear mission. Deterrent from SLBM or ICBM means the B-2 is free to perform SEAD while we create a strike package for the "bunkered" artillery.

Honestly I highly doubt we would need to use boomers against North Korea. This will create quite an issue with the other party to START and may be too politically "radioactive" to occur.


images.military.com

Hai guyz.  What's happening in this thread?  You have a bit of a tactical dilemna?  Maybe I can help.

tn.sawfnews.com

Say hello to my little friend.
 
2013-03-29 03:30:15 PM

knbber2: Not true, B-2s are often tasked against higher level SAM systems, their design is optimized against the acquisition and target tracking radars of those SAMs.  They are used as DEAD assets as opposed to non stealth aircraft when the SAMs can't be struck with cruise missiles.

/26 years USAF pilot


Interesting, thanks!
 
2013-03-29 03:30:17 PM

another cultural observer: ha-ha-guy: hubiestubert: It's times like these you have to wonder if folks are regretting dialing the Japanese military back.

Then again, in the prelude to their entry into WWII, the Yakuza were employed to assassinate the Korean Empress, but then again, the Yakuza are more and more at the street level are employing a lot of Korean immigrants, and are sort of profitting with the tensions and smuggling and with drugs. Then again, full blown war would disrupt a LOT of their business too, so asking them for a few favors on clearing up the mess over there might be floated...

Dialing back?  Globally it is a Top 5 military.  It;s only real weakness is a lack of logstics and that doesn't matter much with America helping out and and the fact they're fighting in their back yard.

It's not a "military", that would be unconstitutional!  It's a Self Defense Police Force!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x275]
STOP! POLICE!


I'm no expert, but from what I understand in recent years the Japanese have been wanting to revise their constitution as it currently is very restrictive with how those forces can train, deploy, operate, etc....

They have a decent amount of hardware, and quality stuff (it's not like Japanese engineering is anything to sneer at! Plus we sell them hardware too), but would like to do things like send warships and forces to join peacekeeping missions with the rest of the world instead of just a token few representatives. I'm sure a lot of that is wanting to establish and maintain better relations through their military with the militaries of other nations and developing nations they might be helping in, but I'm also sure some of it is wanting to be able to flex their muscle a bit on the world stage so they'll be taken seriously as a military power by neighbors such as North Korea.

They have a checkered military past, but that was a few generations ago by now and Japan is a different culture today. The WORLD is a different place now. I think they should go ahead and normalize their military.
 
2013-03-29 03:30:27 PM
Actually, our best bet might be for the N Koreans to do something that really pisses Russia off. I think they view the Russians as a separate entity from other global players, and upon Russian aggression of any kind, they wouldn't retaliate by firing stuff at Seoul because they'd be busy going "wait, why u mad tho?"
 
2013-03-29 03:30:32 PM

tardological: I just think it's kind of fitting that World War III is going to start on Easter weekend.


I was already planning on spending most of Easter naked and drunk.  Now I have even more reason to do it.  Thanks Best Korea!
 
2013-03-29 03:30:49 PM
If it comes to war... the more we destroy nk the more we pay to rebuild it.

We won't nuke them even if they nuke Guam or SK.
 
2013-03-29 03:34:13 PM

PunGent: Oh no, that's wrong...quite a few Farkers have assured me North Korea is absolutely no threat, and SK can handle them within a week.

There won't even be any broken windows in Seoul!


Please name those people / posts.

There's a difference between saying "the threat of North Korean artillery is greatly exaggerated" and saying "no windows would be broken."    That claim is just as false as the claim Seoul would be wiped out completely.

The fact is that a *lot* of the North Korean artillery positions are fake and the ones that aren't are decades old, poorly maintained, never been fired, crewed by men who may have never fired a live round in years or ever.  On top of that, they'd face counter battery fire by foes with some of the best artillery, radar, and fire control systems in the world who are highly trained and have mapped out a lot of the enemy positions.    And that's ignoring the South's complete air superiority.

NK's only advantage is that it might take some time to sort out the fake/non-working artillery positions from the live ones and that they'd be firing into a large city (that's assuming they decide to ignore the South Korean's positions entirely).  Yes there would be civilian casualties but it would hardly be a slaughter.
 
2013-03-29 03:35:06 PM

Civil Discourse: What on earth do you suppose would happen if this clown killed 30,000 by bombing the city of Anchorage?


Somebody on Fark would blame George Bush?
 
2013-03-29 03:35:15 PM

OgreMagi: Best Korea has no chance of winning a war.  But they can do some major damage to Seol in the 24 to 72 hours they would exist after they started shooting.  They have something like 10,000 heavy artillary pieces that could be fired at Seol.  Even if they only got off one or two barrages, the damage and loss of life would be significant.  If they sent all of the soldiers across the border, they would overwhelm the forces in place to stop them.  Then they'd run out of supplies and be farked.  It would be a  hail marry pass that has no chance of sucess.  But the North Koreans might just be crazy enough to try it.

/I'm ignoring anything China might do


www.usfunds.com

I wouldn't worry too much about what China would do.  Money talks.
 
2013-03-29 03:35:51 PM

Thunderboy: Interesting, thanks!


You are welcome, and I added a gift.
 
2013-03-29 03:36:59 PM
What a collection of short memories.
"The Ruskies have ICBMs and we have to protect ourselves."
"We have to stop Communizzims in Viet Nam."
"We are gonna get Sadam's WMDs."

Will you never farking learn?
 
2013-03-29 03:37:59 PM

Civil Discourse: pyrotek85: mr_a: The map was interesting. I hadn't quire realized that NK would have to fly missiles over Russian (and maybe even Chinese) airspace to hit Alaska. That ought to help complicate things.

Would Russia see it as an act of war by NK? Would the US target missiles with ABM weapons over either of these countries?

To be honest, I am surprised that the Chinese haven't just made this guy disappear by now.

This. They usually show a flat map and not a globe, so this is less obvious when you're not studying closely. It just makes their threats even more absurd. What are they targeting in Alaska anyway? We have cities there but they're hardly striking at the heart of the USA.

It doesn't matter why they are targeting Alaska, it is the consequences that are truly frightening.  Do you remember what happened when we lost our collective shiat because a group of jackasses killed about 3,000 people by flying a few planes into three buildings?  What on earth do you suppose would happen if this clown killed 30,000 by bombing the city of Anchorage?


You think you're tough for eating beans every day? There's half a million scarecrows in Pyongyang who'd give anything for one mouthful of what you got. They've been under siege for about three months. They live on rats and sawdust bread and sometimes... on each other. At night, the pyres for the dead light up the sky. It's medieval.
 
2013-03-29 03:38:56 PM

JonPace: Some of you people actually believe North Korea has nukes?


Sure they do.
They bought them from Mr. Haney.
 
2013-03-29 03:39:29 PM
  I would assume everything has been in place for any shenanigans that the little un' could come up with.
And probably has been for about 40 years. Heavy bombers are already close, (Guam, Diego Garcia),  There is more than enough Navy around to blockade, launch airstrikes, cruise missiles, etc.. The Marines at sea, in Okinawa and in Australia could probably be there PDQ..The U.S. and ROK Army, and Air Forces already there just need to shut off the artillery and hold the line for a little bit. It won't take long for the proverbial
cavalry.

 As an aside..I really would not be surprised if there isn't a sub full of SEALS somewhere close already
waiting to go in and secure anything nuclear. Just to make Un nervous, I might infer that they may already be on the ground there.. :P
 
2013-03-29 03:39:44 PM

Myria: tinyarena: What a North Korean attack on the US mainland would look like:
[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 304x171]

What a US attack on North Korea would look like:
[cdn.dipity.com image 600x314]

I'm not seeing the problem here.

The problem is a shiatload of bunkered artillery permanently aimed at Seoul.  There is no way that anyone - including the United States, Russia and China combined - could destroy North Korea's artillery threat before Seoul is shelled to bits.


On the flip side, most of the ammo is 40-50 years old (as are the guns).
 
2013-03-29 03:39:51 PM

ransack.: I thought the phrase was vicious cycle and not vicious circle


25.media.tumblr.com

Has heard it both ways.
 
2013-03-29 03:40:13 PM

angrymonday: They cannot feed their people, cannot win a war. My conspiracy theory:
This is a ploy to for the US to get involved so dear leader can open up the society via defeat. They accept the help of the US to rebuild and emulate the south. It's so stupid it just might work.


Kim won't be permitted to be the guy to lead that rebuild job. He likely won't be allowed to live to see it. He'll go down swinging.
 
2013-03-29 03:40:21 PM
Are China and Russia really wanting to be the voices of reason, or are they just talking like this because they're not yet ready to back up their crazy-ass cousin should he launch a new M*A*S*H* series?
 
2013-03-29 03:41:46 PM

JonPace: Some of you people actually believe North Korea has nukes?


i5.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-29 03:43:29 PM
PS:

I'm actually not sure that this craziness is Fatty DingDong's own doing. He's been outside of the Tragic Kingdom during his college years. He's seen with his own eyes that the rest of the world isn't anything like in the propaganda. He knows what would happen if they attack outside the DMZ.

I suspect the REAL dicks behind these actions are Fatty's uncles in the military, using their big-boned nephew as a figurehead.
 
2013-03-29 03:44:09 PM

bunner: Ah, scaled nuclear war.  The notion that if we decimate the entire planet, that 2,000 years later when things start to lose their toxicity and the mutated vegetation re-emerges that whoever is still around to sweep up the ashes has won.  If our species are the smart ones, god help us.


It's only a matter of time before there's another nuclear release. Nothing we can do to stop it. Nothing.

Two words: preemptive strike.
 
2013-03-29 03:44:39 PM
I forget that 30 years ago we in the West were worried about mutual annihilation via nuclear weapons. It's amazing how quickly mindsets can change.

Having said that, I'm amazed at how fast behavior and mindset can change in Asia. The explosion in Communist China is farking amazing.  But what fascinates me is the speed at which barbarism can be swept into a people then disappear. The fascinating thing to me about Japanese treatment of prisoners in WWII isn't that they were so barbaric. It's that in the previous world war, Japan treated her German prisoners of war with respect. There is still German culture in Japan from that POW internment.

Jump ahead 15 years or so and you have organized rape squads, systematic cannibalism, starvation, working prisoners to death, germ warfare experiments. Jump ahead another 15 years and you have Sony in a demilitarized Japan.

One documentary I watched talked about how the Japanese military expanded so greatly in numbers so quickly in time, there was no way to bring the soldiers along with conventional training philosophies. They needed so many soldiers so quickly, the military leadership relied on violence against their own soldiers as a training technique. And if you treat your own soldiers violently, it's hard to preach respect for the enemy or for innocent civilians.
 
2013-03-29 03:45:43 PM

angrymonday: They cannot feed their people, cannot win a war. My conspiracy theory:
This is a ploy to for the US to get involved so dear leader can open up the society via defeat. They accept the help of the US to rebuild and emulate the south. It's so stupid it just might work.


Newsflash: we can't feed all the people in the US either.
 
2013-03-29 03:46:07 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: And there is only one voice that North Korea has ever listened to, China. They will do whatever China tells them to unless the people who are actually pulling the strings in NK have gone batshiat nuts.


If China was truly pulling the strings, Best Korea wouldn't be anywhere near nuclear capable.
 
2013-03-29 03:47:00 PM

Cer10Death: angrymonday: They cannot feed their people, cannot win a war. My conspiracy theory:
This is a ploy to for the US to get involved so dear leader can open up the society via defeat. They accept the help of the US to rebuild and emulate the south. It's so stupid it just might work.

Newsflash: we can't feed all the people in the US either.


No no... we CAN... we just choose not to do it.
 
2013-03-29 03:47:25 PM

TV's Vinnie: PS:

I'm actually not sure that this craziness is Fatty DingDong's own doing. He's been outside of the Tragic Kingdom during his college years. He's seen with his own eyes that the rest of the world isn't anything like in the propaganda. He knows what would happen if they attack outside the DMZ.

I suspect the REAL dicks behind these actions are Fatty's uncles in the military, using their big-boned nephew as a figurehead.


This.
 
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